Guild Wars 2

ahh I understand now, the skillcap is so low that’s why it’s mostly the same players in big tournaments…….. right….

Gear is still a non issue….. I love when people come complain about dumb kitten because they had a bad night or they just aren’t as good as others….. snowflakes…. very special snowflakes.

Dagger warhorn staff is not weird.

But don’t use staff 4 just for damage =)

So I’m guessing there are some GW1 players who thought they were the kitten in pvp come to gw2 and get owned so it’s clearly not a player skill issue its because the game is stupid….

Toxsa.2701:

Elitist.8701:

66200 Longbow Ranger
Turret Engi

Both are low effort builds with high rewards. Obviously ranger is slightly harder to play and is more vulnerable, but I still hate it nonetheless.

66200 also has almost 0 defense too.
Go try one in Ranked que and see how successful you can be.
Turreters can go all defensive while turrets are up, but ranger is a complete different story with huge risk when go for offensive.

Yes, stop whining and JUST MAKE ONE RIGHT NOW AND GO TO RANKED QUE AND SEE HOW EFFORTLESS IT IS PLEASE!
Stop making excuses.

….. please go and look at the title of the thread again before attacking A player who I’m gonna guess would rek you.

Azzer.8137:

Safiyasha.2910:

I love using so called bad classes in every game and showing people up, just saying. when they find out I actually know what I’m doing usually it’s too late for them as they are in down state fighting for their life.

Profession not class*

Also most people can beat a necro unless they suck at the game, and if you are as good as you say literally all other 7 professions would be far better for you as you could actually be good for your team unlike the necromancer.

Necromancers are abysmal in PvE, PvP and WvW, unless arenanet somehow magically fix the necromancer in the upcoming expansion then they will see an even bigger fall of necromancer players.

L2p so you stop spreading garbage like this. If you need proof pick any class you want and fight my necro.

I agree let’s change everything about a class because some people don’t agree on what a necromancer actually is in tyria.

a great thief and an amazing bunker guardian can carry bad teams. Even a great turret engi is just gonna get melted if he leaves his turrets or they will just leave him there to rot.

I’ll duel! Right now I’m in DR so gimme until like Wednesday!

Asura master race pvp.

Why is anyone talking to the robot….

Hoping this is for pve only.

Ragion.2831:

NeXeD.3042:

The pre Dec 16 leaderboards weren’t about grinding you literally just need a win against some with a high mmr to make it. But you didn’t manage that. So either hotjoin hero or bad.

Eh.. i really couldnt care less… cuz in the end i know my skill level in the grand scheme of things, i know what gets my kitten kicked and what doesnt.

Just dueled another zerker meta necro a few times who wasnt half bad, except…he was zerker and using a staff. Got him to switch to knights and voila lasted a whole lot longer while doing dangerous pressure damage. If he dropped the staff and took daggers and warhorn and we dueled again, i might actually be forced to use stealth.

If i can get the meta to change to knights and necros are benefiting from it, i think it would be a personal accomplishment. I’d like to see necros be feared on arrival like thieves.

You sir are probably the best troll these necromancer forums have ever seen… knights… haha hahah what a real knee slapper.

Ragion.2831:

NeXeD.3042:

Ragion.2831:

NeXeD.3042:

Ragion.2831:

unlucky.9285:

borrok.9267:

Power necro is pretty nice in solo, I like to think I do well with it. It is hit or miss though, I very rarely get fights that are drawn out, either I melt the person or I get CCed to death. I started doing a lot better with it once I moved away from the DS LB builds honestly. Just about everything I went after out healed the blasts or just blinded me. For solo, necro away.

and what is there other then ds lb builds for power? dont you spec anything into sr?

All you should spec into SR is 4 points for near to death and vital persistance/spectral mastery. It appears this guy learned the hard way the problem with depending on life blasts.

Your not in the position to be making blanket statements About a class that it has become clearer and clearer you are very inexperienced with in pvp. As a power necro you should be relying on lifeblast and your 50% crit chance increase. The trick is not just spamming then into someone blocking and reflecting. Try counting dodges. You can also dodge mid lifeblast.

Alot of you keep trying to say kitten like “we’ll that’s because you used the cookie cutter build if you used my build you wouldn’t have that problem”

Get outta the kittening hotjoins, play a tournament.

We are either glass power or glass condi. There is no tanky, we are inherently tanky due to Our class mechanic and high health pool. Learning to play with all that extra defense that barely helps gives you bad habits, your not as focused on dodging and your dps is awful.

People don’t use meta builds because they don’t know how to make a build they use them because they have been battles tested.

I swear if i didnt know any better i would think you just started playing pvp. Please watch these and let me know if you honestly think an immobile class like necro should be going glass when almost all our high damage skills have long cast times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESO_mDzxUg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG0GgzBY5Cg
Ive been playing pvp for a long time man and ive tried any number of builds and amulets. Dps glass, condi glass, evade, siphon, wells. even power tanks using soldiers ammy then maxing out curses and using sigil of accuracy for crit and fury . Except the build i run now, they all had the problem of either not doing enough damage or taking too much damage from classes that can avoid damage then burst or in the case of warrior, die from relentless attacks and CC chain.

A lot of necros are seeing the same problems now. Necros these days don’t even use pure zerker anymore but zerker and knights or captain in wvw.

Not that it means much but I cannot find you on the pre Dec 16 leaderboards at all. Anyone that pvped made it onto that…… so I’m guessing your the new one?

playing hotjoins and playing agaisnt real teams are two different animals.

For kittens and giggles I run around on a rampagers signet necro and I can wreck people. I would never recommend the build to anyone. Hell the other day I ran around on a MM zerk build specifically made to suicide myself… I was wrecking people… but it’s hotjoin….. even took it into unranked still wrecked. Player skill > build but build maximizes player skill utilized. Just because I used some dumb builds in hotjoin doesn’t mean I would come on her recommending there use it over meta builds claiming it is just as good.

Lol dragon rank = newb #logic. don’t worry about my standings dude, i really dont care about it. I simply dont play 300 ranked games per week. I can stay in practice mode for days just because of the no queue time. I only play ranked if i havent come across dragon level players in a while.

most necro have accepted or are in the process of accepting the issues and many limitations of full glass, you should too. I hope you don’t one day join NoS and take carrion to a tournament expecting to be shielded, I will happily greet you with my thief.

The pre Dec 16 leaderboards weren’t about grinding you literally just need a win against some with a high mmr to make it. But you didn’t manage that. So either hotjoin hero or bad.

Ragion.2831:

NeXeD.3042:

Ragion.2831:

unlucky.9285:

borrok.9267:

Power necro is pretty nice in solo, I like to think I do well with it. It is hit or miss though, I very rarely get fights that are drawn out, either I melt the person or I get CCed to death. I started doing a lot better with it once I moved away from the DS LB builds honestly. Just about everything I went after out healed the blasts or just blinded me. For solo, necro away.

and what is there other then ds lb builds for power? dont you spec anything into sr?

All you should spec into SR is 4 points for near to death and vital persistance/spectral mastery. It appears this guy learned the hard way the problem with depending on life blasts.

Your not in the position to be making blanket statements About a class that it has become clearer and clearer you are very inexperienced with in pvp. As a power necro you should be relying on lifeblast and your 50% crit chance increase. The trick is not just spamming then into someone blocking and reflecting. Try counting dodges. You can also dodge mid lifeblast.

Alot of you keep trying to say kitten like “we’ll that’s because you used the cookie cutter build if you used my build you wouldn’t have that problem”

Get outta the kittening hotjoins, play a tournament.

We are either glass power or glass condi. There is no tanky, we are inherently tanky due to Our class mechanic and high health pool. Learning to play with all that extra defense that barely helps gives you bad habits, your not as focused on dodging and your dps is awful.

People don’t use meta builds because they don’t know how to make a build they use them because they have been battles tested.

I swear if i didnt know any better i would think you just started playing pvp. Please watch these and let me know if you honestly think an immobile class like necro should be going glass when almost all our high damage skills have long cast times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESO_mDzxUg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG0GgzBY5Cg
Ive been playing pvp for a long time man and ive tried any number of builds and amulets. Dps glass, condi glass, evade, siphon, wells. even power tanks using soldiers ammy then maxing out curses and using sigil of accuracy for crit and fury . Except the build i run now, they all had the problem of either not doing enough damage or taking too much damage from classes that can avoid damage then burst or in the case of warrior, die from relentless attacks and CC chain.

A lot of necros are seeing the same problems now. Necros these days don’t even use pure zerker anymore but zerker and knights or captain in wvw.

Not that it means much but I cannot find you on the pre Dec 16 leaderboards at all. Anyone that pvped made it onto that…… so I’m guessing your the new one?

playing hotjoins and playing agaisnt real teams are two different animals.

For kittens and giggles I run around on a rampagers signet necro and I can wreck people. I would never recommend the build to anyone. Hell the other day I ran around on a MM zerk build specifically made to suicide myself… I was wrecking people… but it’s hotjoin….. even took it into unranked still wrecked. Player skill > build but build maximizes player skill utilized. Just because I used some dumb builds in hotjoin doesn’t mean I would come on her recommending there use it over meta builds claiming it is just as good.

Ragion.2831:

unlucky.9285:

borrok.9267:

Power necro is pretty nice in solo, I like to think I do well with it. It is hit or miss though, I very rarely get fights that are drawn out, either I melt the person or I get CCed to death. I started doing a lot better with it once I moved away from the DS LB builds honestly. Just about everything I went after out healed the blasts or just blinded me. For solo, necro away.

and what is there other then ds lb builds for power? dont you spec anything into sr?

All you should spec into SR is 4 points for near to death and vital persistance/spectral mastery. It appears this guy learned the hard way the problem with depending on life blasts.

Your not in the position to be making blanket statements About a class that it has become clearer and clearer you are very inexperienced with in pvp. As a power necro you should be relying on lifeblast and your 50% crit chance increase. The trick is not just spamming then into someone blocking and reflecting. Try counting dodges. You can also dodge mid lifeblast.

Alot of you keep trying to say kitten like “we’ll that’s because you used the cookie cutter build if you used my build you wouldn’t have that problem”

Get outta the kittening hotjoins, play a tournament.

We are either glass power or glass condi. There is no tanky, we are inherently tanky due to Our class mechanic and high health pool. Learning to play with all that extra defense that barely helps gives you bad habits, your not as focused on dodging and your dps is awful.

People don’t use meta builds because they don’t know how to make a build they use them because they have been battles tested.

Papish.5806:

Not 100% sure but even pre patch doom’s fear would never proc the runes only staff 5 and spectral wall(if they used a skill into it or u managed to drop it right on them during skill use), if course I could be wrong as I haven’t ran perplex runes in quite a while

All fears as long as it was interupting procced the runes.

plexity

/15char

Rolisteel.1375:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m not a big sPvP player, in fact, I really don’t like it much. Though because it’s this weekends “it thing” it’s taken me out of WvW for a bit. I tried rolling a thief and running every other “meta” build with low to moderate success. After an annoying stretch of loses I went and brought in my wvw power Necro and doing much better. The only down side to Necro’s is our lack of life force at the start of a match. I really think we should start each match full but, that’s a whole other conversation. Though even without life force, I was able to beat a cele ele right from the start. So a Necro can take on some meta builds right out of the gate.

Are you sure it was a cele ele? sounds like it was a low skilled one that probably eat a hamburger while playing. When i played ele necromancer are free kills. Why? because the class can outlast a lot better. necromancer just dont have any chance and so easily kiteable by more experienced players ( LoS) to death with most classes. i had so much regen protection and mobility.

If CoD procs and air fire proc at the same time when the ele is loaded with boons and he doesn’t have water attunement ready he’s dead.

Ragion.2831:

Power necros work but i really dont believe zerker necros are a good idea in high level play. The classes survivability and damage levels are balanced to be around the same. DS doesnt make you any more tanky than a warrior or ele. Deathly perception doesnt help you if you are stun locked or if you are missing all your lifeblasts or not doing the damage you expect, something that other classes can easily make happen.

That being said, we have no vigor, pretty much no stability, bad mobilty which means we can be outplayed by good mesmers and thieves. We only have ds which doesnt last long against zerker and high protection up time which doesnt do much if you are zerker fighting more than one zerker.

Because of all this i had to switch to this
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBIRdG2IHNN22XjxNs3moWokeIyhAGyIIAocOODA-TJBFABC8EAqZ/hoLDAwJBAA

The point of this build is to prevent burst damage while taking advantage of the squishy meta. Surprisingly enough it works pretty well against 2 people without leaving you vulnerable afterwards. Zerker cant do this. If you somehow manage 2 people, you will most likely have next to no hp left leaving you vulnerable to more attacks.

The downside is, unlike zerker meta builds, this isn’t a pushabuttontokill kind of build. A lot more counter play is involved, like knowing when to blind instead of just transfering condis, knowiing when to use signet for the poison (really effective against warriors engis and eles) and knowing when to go into and out of DS.

I wouldnt reccomend this build if you are new to pvp.

If you want to be able to do something about the lack of mobility,stability and the focus issue, id say drop zerker amulet and use a build with max armour, high power with decent crit and don’’t worry about ferocity.

knights is bad, zerker has more stats and vitality > toughness

dont use dagger 4 as a blind.

if your looking for vigor try WoP.

TheLastNobody.8319:

I love how we seem to get closer and closer to expansion, we necros seem to get more and more vocal.

get excited bro.

I think the downstate fixes were just a start.

trampled underfoot.4523:

insanemaniac.2456:

make sure you dont have 0 points in a match and then proceed to ignore the personal scoreboard because it has absolutely no relation to player skill, and as such no it should not reflect in leaderboard ranking in any way.

So if a player gets 5 points and runs around chasing players and ensures your team loses, that should not reflect at all in leaderboard?

Yup.

For the same reason another player could 1v2 and funnel the other team the entire game not scoring many points because he isn’t the one capping.

If the leaderboards where what you said we would hAve games of entirely just Nike warriors and theives.

Erzian.5218:

zone.1073:

If the damage from celestial is strong enough to take down a berserker necro, doesn’t that show that the build can pull its own weight?

Which build can not take down a berserker necro (if he doesn’t use lich) in a 1v1?

Zerker necro is not weak.

Ara.4569:

NeXeD.3042:

@op Try this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHRhG2IHNl32SjtNc4m4WogOAGgXIqQg60YMiWA-TZBFwACOIA12fYxJAoaZAAPBAA

Why do you take Weakening Shroud + Near to Death over say Reaper’s Precision + Vital Persistance or Spectral Mastery ?

I don’t feel like it gives me increased survivability, but I would be happy to be wrong… Unless I need to pop DS as regularly as possible for it to be better, because then I would need to rework my gameplay with that in mind, but maybe it is worthy ? =P

purely for dps reasons. yeah I’m in ds alot even without vital persistance. I don’t take vp because I need Cleave. your making yourself slightly tankier but your taking away aoe bleed and weakness.

Poc is a game changer when landed.

Talonblaze.3175:

Tissitra.4153:

Deathshroud is not comparable to an invulnerability skill. Just imagine a power necro spamming lifeblast while being immune to say cc…

Foot in the Grave used to provide such an immunity till the nerf hammer, even if briefly.
Despite it not being exactly like an invulnerability, some are trying to treat as one for sake of argument.

Spamming and be able to cast one lifeblast that has a ridiculous tell and is probably the easiest player attack to dodge in the entire game Are very different.

@balekai

You don’t actually pvp do you…..

There is so much wrong with what you said…. please try pvping outside of hotjoins before saying a build like this works in practice. Maybe bring it to the AG tourney on monday, or just do some ranked games. people aren’t the same as golems, they move they dodge they CC the living kitten out of you and they focus fire you.

Oddly enough I’m actually in agreement that full healing in ds could be horribly OVERPOWERED. But that’s mostly due to my experience that I don’t even have to trait for sustain to survive if I’m good enough.

Zenith.7301:

Yeah, just give Life Siphon the rapid fire treatment. Compress its castime to something similar to Blurred Frenzy and keep the damage the same.

The same needs to go for Ghastly Claws by the way if its damage stays the same (lower than warrior rifle’s Volley, just pathetic). Compress the cast time and then its DPS becomes better.

And may I say something about the dagger auto? I find it really obnoxious how the secondaries we get on skills are purely about some little life force generation instead of actual utility. The thief’s auto refunds them endurance and gives them permanent poison uptime, but all we get is like 8% life force per auto chain.

You need to stop comparing classes like this.

Since when can an ele mist form when in moa form……

ronpierce.2760:

As I’ve always said, and Bhawb is getting at, fix the games design issues first, then balance around proper design. Don’t ignore design because of a false sense of balance.

it’s a nice suggestion, but I don’t think anet, let alone most game developers are willing to do that. So let’s be realistic instead of asking for a design overhaul.

cursE.1794:

Celestial powernecro doesn’t work in spvp. Condition damage is neglegtable, healing power is pretty much useless. You’re just overall nerfing yourself to get a bit of a balance between toughness and power/crit but in the end you don’t have the sustain and still lack damage. You can’t power down thieves quick enough so they will be easily able to retreat without resetting the fight in order to whittle down your healthpool. The only way I see necro working in spvp is a condition build with fleshworm and spectral walk. Or go all in with berserker amulet but this gets also eaten alive by thieves.

If the theif makes a mistake against a good zerker necro, like stealing into wells the theif is dead.

SobeSoul.6910:

The fact you mentioned dragon rank makes me think OP is not so hot himself.

Big scawwwy dragons mm make mmmeee fwighteneded.

Lexibot9000 /15characters

Lol yeah I’ve been getting that too sometimes I’ll just see another one of me just standing there….

I don’t need anyone to explain well your not counting on my weakness uptime and my traiting for protection on wells and my sustain blah blah blahh. Your numbers may look ok in THEORY. In practice I promise you against any decent player you won’t do any damage and they will kill you.[/quote]

They work in practice.
[/quote]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYGn0ISRNWTD83YinhS6JIAa2JDhUgyfYHA-TZQbAAQZAA

Here’s your build minus sigils and runes And a 3rd utility slot which either uses a stunbreak Or the build is even worse than I originally thought. So you’ve got a condi build rocking toughness and healing power with no condi duration nice anyone with hoelbrek pretty much is immune to your build so you are useless against engineers and elementalists. You don’t have enough conditions or duration to do anything against a Shoutbow or guardian. Ever class even traited as bunker is going to out dps you.

Youve basically created a walking nerf ball.

No it doesn’t work in practice, the other team can literally just ignore you and kill your teammates while you flail around hitting people with 2 seconds bleeds.

Just because you ran around for 10 minutes in hotjoins slapping people with a piece of spaghetti does not make your build decent, viable, etc.

Balekai.6083:

NeXeD.3042:

Balekai.6083:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

flow.6043:

If that’s really what you believe than I honestly don’t understand why you are so much against ally healing through DS.
And I don’t understand why you would allow regen applied by allies, but no other healing skills.

Unrestricted healing combined with death shroud’s uptime is far too likely to be overwhelming. That’s the problem with health being the sole defense of the profession: it’s too little or too much, with a very, very thin line between.

Full healing in death shroud is a good end goal, but if the balance line gets crossed before we reach it, then we should stop there.

This. For example, combining Unholy Sanctuary, good healing power, armor class and quick LF gain already can be overwhelming effective health. With my own sustain builds it can become an unending game of wackamole, if enemies don’t have enough pressure and spike damage to get through SoV+Regeneration+Unholy Sactuary+Soul Marks+Mitigation revolving door.

People forget that while in DS, health bar healing is way more effective than normal healing outside of DS. You’re getting 100% of the net benefit of the healing, while taking damage to an easily replenished secondary healthbar (life force) with benefits of its own. Nothing like hanging out in DS for a couple seconds and letting a group of enemies expend their spike on it, healing all your health in the process and exiting DS only to use something like soul marks to get 100% LF back then repeat.

Edit: On the gating issue. If life steal is not gated and normalized, then builds that abuse constant area hits and sustain may become too too powerful in their regen and with very little vampiric trait investment (essentially just vampiric).

So full of absolute dookie. I’ll burst right through that on any class.

Oh it can definitely bursted through by skilled/smart players, but there are many cases where you can multiple people that just can’t kill you if they don’t know what they’re doing, don’t coordinate or their builds just don’t have the spike. To the point where people are left wondering what’s going on taking so long to kill a necro. :p

Let me put it this way:

I have a weird Well/Unholy Sanc/Condi sustain build I play around with spvp. Firstly it combines SoV passive (410) and constant Regeneration from MoB+MoE (236) for 646 health per second in most cases. 20K health, 3000 armor, 14K LF.

Then you have Marks, Grasping Dead, and if they’re hitting five targets, are healing 215 per cast. The Marks are also giving me 3% LF buffed by Soul Comprehension, giving me 575 LF each time I hit something with them. So each cast is essentially giving me 890 effective health on up to 4-5 marks at a time if I make it into DS of course.

Then since i’m using a condi spec, I have plenty of area weakness for 50% fumble, which is essentially 25% less damage over time.

It also runs Wells specced for Ritual Mastery and Ritual of Protection. So when someone tries to spike me outside of DS, I just throw down WoC to corrupt them and/or WoD to completely counter their burst. They usually by this point have more Weakness if I WoCed them, and I have also gained 4-8 seconds of protection (-33 damage).

By this point the enemy or enemies are ready for their second burst. They’re weakened, I have protection up, I usually have a full 14K lifeforce bar, healing what little damage I took to health I didn’t mitigate at 236 net health per second. Vital Persistence allows me to stay in DS for quite a long time, but usually 5-10 seconds does it (and is preferred). By this point I usually have full endurance as well. Exit DS, throw down more marks etc. use dodges to evade 4-5 second of damage, re-enter DS, exit and by this point more Marks/Wells should be up to mitigate another large burst by the time I run out of LF.

What I’m trying to say is that Necro sustain can already be achieved through mix and match of high healing power, armor, little to some vampiric traits, DS traits and good use of mitigation. If the effectiveness of vampiric traits were greatly increased and/or allowed in DS with no ICD, these builds which have recently become almost viable, could become very powerful if not OP.

I’ve tried every combination of every kittening trait of every kittening amulet every kittening sigil everything. The best option for sustain is a spectral build but it’s still sub par to just killing your opponent.

I don’t need anyone to explain well your not counting on my weakness uptime and my traiting for protection on wells and my sustain blah blah blahh. Your numbers may look ok in THEORY. In practice I promise you against any decent player you won’t do any damage and they will kill you.

Acandis.3250:

I for one, would like to see a series of 1v1s before declaring a true victor.

As would I. Maybe this time nos won’t stand in one place for a minute not dodging.

Balekai.6083:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

flow.6043:

If that’s really what you believe than I honestly don’t understand why you are so much against ally healing through DS.
And I don’t understand why you would allow regen applied by allies, but no other healing skills.

Unrestricted healing combined with death shroud’s uptime is far too likely to be overwhelming. That’s the problem with health being the sole defense of the profession: it’s too little or too much, with a very, very thin line between.

Full healing in death shroud is a good end goal, but if the balance line gets crossed before we reach it, then we should stop there.

This. For example, combining Unholy Sanctuary, good healing power, armor class and quick LF gain already can be overwhelming effective health. With my own sustain builds it can become an unending game of wackamole, if enemies don’t have enough pressure and spike damage to get through SoV+Regeneration+Unholy Sactuary+Soul Marks+Mitigation revolving door.

People forget that while in DS, health bar healing is way more effective than normal healing outside of DS. You’re getting 100% of the net benefit of the healing, while taking damage to an easily replenished secondary healthbar (life force) with benefits of its own. Nothing like hanging out in DS for a couple seconds and letting a group of enemies expend their spike on it, healing all your health in the process and exiting DS only to use something like soul marks to get 100% LF back then repeat.

Edit: On the gating issue. If life steal is not gated and normalized, then builds that abuse constant area hits and sustain may become too too powerful in their regen and with very little vampiric trait investment (essentially just vampiric).

So full of absolute dookie. I’ll burst right through that on any class.

Rav.9475:

Thanks for your time Nex – much appreciated.

So Carrion>Rabid amulet? Was thinking about that myself, with no on-crit sigils make sense really.

I think I would always use a Warhorn now, just me I guess but the Daze and far more importantly the LF gain on Locust Swarm I find invaluable – am always starved of LF with condi builds unless I use the horn. In my book they are a fair swap for the condi-clear and more damage from Dagger OH.

So what about SPvP tactics? I don’t mean Map specific stuff just a more general “you should be trying to do x when y is happening” kind of thing.

If you get good at landing scepter 3 and ranging with staff you won’t need warhorns lifeforce. Use scepter 3 after using dagger 4 and after you load your opponent with marks or after a mark transfer or after a corrupt boon or after a ds burst with fear try hitting then with scepter 3 before the fear runs out. Most people struggling with lifeforce gain in condi builds just absolutely suck at landing scepter 3 once you train yourself to land it after transfers, ds bursts, and corrupt boon you will be golden.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYWjc0UebvN22wfbCchCyDIAi+Dmg8lytYMA-TZhGwAF3fgwJAYZZAAPBgCHCAA

Try this, if you want you can swap out spectral wall and spectral armor for wurm and spectral walk for some mobility and juking ability. Alternatively you could also trait staff with greater marks and staff mastery if you wanted to keep the 4 points in DM.

Yeah I really enjoy support necromancers, support mesmers, support theives, support rangers. They are clearly better at support than warriors, guardians, and elementalists.

zone.1073:

NeXeD.3042:

it won’t damage like berserker.

It won’t die like berserker, either, and the critical damage is equal to berserker (1% difference). Try it. It’s a refreshing change from cookie cutters.

I have tried it, the dps is lacking. You lose out on power precision and critical damage. Healing power is a bad investment, as is toughness. Zerk amulet already has vitality. You won’t last any longer on a celestial amulet than you will on zerker and you won’t kill people anywhere near as fast.

@op Try this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHRhG2IHNl32SjtNc4m4WogOAGgXIqQg60YMiWA-TZBFwACOIA12fYxJAoaZAAPBAA

zone.1073:

I play Celestial powermancer in arenas and do pretty well. I switch between ranked and unranked so the leaderboards will not reflect the true success of the build.

It’s alright. I beat Nos of Abjured with it, at least. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZLPqumOFLA

I like this variation because it is tankier and has a mixture of strong power damage and condition pressure. I use plague instead of lich elite for the clutch stability finishers and plague revives, and with celestial amulet the plague outputs strong condition pressure. Celestial also boosts the conditions I push onto opponents with plague signet.

Good mobility with warhorn and pack runes. Very high crit from the fury and precision from pack runes and celestial amulet. Very comparable damage output to berserker amulet.

Lich elite is a “win more” ability, in my opinion. You need to use lich while you’re still healthy and high HP so that you don’t insta-die. If you’re high HP, you’re already in a winning position, so lich is just “win more”. Plague actually helps you survive and relieves you from focus because of its high toughness, allowing you to continue being a threat in fights instead of insta-exploding from focus.

it won’t damage like berserker. It won’t damage like carrion. Healing power is pretty much useless, you are basically nerfing yourself. Nos didn’t dodge for like a minute literally stood in one place and you got a perfect fear off good job, if he was taking you seriously he would have won.

Rolisteel.1375:

I feel like other classes are better. My problem with necro is lack of mobility and defensive skills or health regen. Every other classes have it so they have good survivability and good burst too. Even if i get the skilled players that play other classes to low hp they regen way too much health back or run away or they use the run away, teleport, stealth, regen come back to me using their mobility and burst me to death tactic. So im not able to finish off my enemy that even very hard matchup if they dont run away, but impossible if they do. which makes me feel underpowered. So where in pvp power necro good at? 1v1 other classes do it better. 5v5 other classes do it better.

You recommend me keep playing necro solo ranked? or play other class for solo ranked? i don’t want to be in disadvantage. Thanks

Power necro can perform very well solo, but here is the deal. Go glass or gtfo. Building for sustain doesn’t work so just don’t do it. There are going to be people here telling you tanky builds with points in DM and BM and how no none else knows how to play it blah blah blah nope. They are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Your job is to +1 fights and end then quickly. Don’t engage 1v1s without lifeforce. Don’t engage 2v1s at all unless you know a teammate is coming very very soon.

They both need one grandmaster that isn’t god awful, vamp traits need to be stronger, maybe the protection on wells could be slightly buffed, a cd reduction of dagger 3 and speeding up 2s attack would make it worth it to grab dagger mastery.

Tissitra.4153:

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

Well in group pvp only those classes are viable, that are useful. Noone would bother for example to pick up a thief who is usind soldier’s: sure, it has great survivability, but is otherwise rather useless because of the lacking burst.

So imagine just buffing necro survivability. It still lacks the support of the cele classes, while doing not much more condition pressure than say a cele engi using grenades.

The only (potentially) saving grace are the abilities to corrupt boons and transfer conditions (condi CLEANSES are in fact much better on other classes). These are potentially very useful, but in my view currently simply far too weak. Compare the few boon corruptions necros currently have for example to boon removal that mesmers bring (the latter is btw the main reason why mesmers are still sometimes taken over thieves).

Theives can remove boons as well, in fact both necros and theives have a distinct advantage agaisnt boon heavy classes, necros can corrupt them not just remove, as well as remove for extra damage. Theives can steal the kittening boons. Try again.

Its clear you are new to pvp and that’s fine we always need more pvpers. But your opinions don’t hold much weight at the moment.

Thieves can remove (indeed steal and grant to their allies) 2 boons from one target every 20 seconds. You can also remove (and steal) one boon with sword 3, this is however situational and requires a setup.

With the first shatter skill ALONE, mesmers can remove 4 boons IN AN AOE every 11 seconds. There is currently quite some discussion among mesmers concerning the fact that thieves counter and to a large extent replace mesmers. The (vastly superior) boon removal of mesmers in one of the few points in their favor.

Finally, a little piece of advice. To appear superior by being condescending hardly ever works. The fact that you are being so blatant is not helping either.

I’m actually not trying to act superior but clearly alot of us have a better understanding of this games pvp mechanics than you, I assumed it was because you were new out of kindness. If I thought you were experience and still thought some of the things you have said recently I would be much harsher.

Let me then kindly point out to you that your perceived superior understanding of the mechanics seems to be based entirely on the fact that you claim that something I wrote is wrong, which it as I just pointed out is not.

That is your OPINION.

That mesmers have far superior boon removal compared to thieves is a FACT which will only take you about a minute to doublecheck on the wiki.

I think I will stop arguing with you here since your posts seem to have stopped containing any factual arguments.

Your ignoring the fact that a necro corrupts them and a theif steals them.

the only reason terror necro is viable is due to its corrupt and CC and condi manipulation, you basically said they aren’t good at it and mesmers are better for boon removal which is not exactly true when you take into acct they don’t just remove they corrupt. So basically all the reasons why necro was viable you are saying isn’t yet you’ve insisted we don’t need buffs to dm and bm which is where we need the buffs… your posts are your opinion and you are entitled to have one. doesn’t mean you are right.

Tissitra.4153:

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

Well in group pvp only those classes are viable, that are useful. Noone would bother for example to pick up a thief who is usind soldier’s: sure, it has great survivability, but is otherwise rather useless because of the lacking burst.

So imagine just buffing necro survivability. It still lacks the support of the cele classes, while doing not much more condition pressure than say a cele engi using grenades.

The only (potentially) saving grace are the abilities to corrupt boons and transfer conditions (condi CLEANSES are in fact much better on other classes). These are potentially very useful, but in my view currently simply far too weak. Compare the few boon corruptions necros currently have for example to boon removal that mesmers bring (the latter is btw the main reason why mesmers are still sometimes taken over thieves).

Theives can remove boons as well, in fact both necros and theives have a distinct advantage agaisnt boon heavy classes, necros can corrupt them not just remove, as well as remove for extra damage. Theives can steal the kittening boons. Try again.

Its clear you are new to pvp and that’s fine we always need more pvpers. But your opinions don’t hold much weight at the moment.

Thieves can remove (indeed steal and grant to their allies) 2 boons from one target every 20 seconds. You can also remove (and steal) one boon with sword 3, this is however situational and requires a setup.

With the first shatter skill ALONE, mesmers can remove 4 boons IN AN AOE every 11 seconds. There is currently quite some discussion among mesmers concerning the fact that thieves counter and to a large extent replace mesmers. The (vastly superior) boon removal of mesmers in one of the few points in their favor.

Finally, a little piece of advice. To appear superior by being condescending hardly ever works. The fact that you are being so blatant is not helping either.

I’m actually not trying to act superior but clearly alot of us have a better understanding of this games pvp mechanics than you, I assumed it was because you were new out of kindness. If I thought you were experience and still thought some of the things you have said recently I would be much harsher.

Let me then kindly point out to you that your perceived superior understanding of the mechanics seems to be based entirely on the fact that you claim that something I wrote is wrong, which it as I just pointed out is not.

That is your OPINION.

Tissitra.4153:

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

Well in group pvp only those classes are viable, that are useful. Noone would bother for example to pick up a thief who is usind soldier’s: sure, it has great survivability, but is otherwise rather useless because of the lacking burst.

So imagine just buffing necro survivability. It still lacks the support of the cele classes, while doing not much more condition pressure than say a cele engi using grenades.

The only (potentially) saving grace are the abilities to corrupt boons and transfer conditions (condi CLEANSES are in fact much better on other classes). These are potentially very useful, but in my view currently simply far too weak. Compare the few boon corruptions necros currently have for example to boon removal that mesmers bring (the latter is btw the main reason why mesmers are still sometimes taken over thieves).

Theives can remove boons as well, in fact both necros and theives have a distinct advantage agaisnt boon heavy classes, necros can corrupt them not just remove, as well as remove for extra damage. Theives can steal the kittening boons. Try again.

Its clear you are new to pvp and that’s fine we always need more pvpers. But your opinions don’t hold much weight at the moment.

Thieves can remove (indeed steal and grant to their allies) 2 boons from one target every 20 seconds. You can also remove (and steal) one boon with sword 3, this is however situational and requires a setup.

With the first shatter skill ALONE, mesmers can remove 4 boons IN AN AOE every 11 seconds. There is currently quite some discussion among mesmers concerning the fact that thieves counter and to a large extent replace mesmers. The (vastly superior) boon removal of mesmers in one of the few points in their favor.

Finally, a little piece of advice. To appear superior by being condescending hardly ever works. The fact that you are being so blatant is not helping either.

I’m actually not trying to act superior but clearly alot of us have a better understanding of this games pvp mechanics than you, I assumed it was because you were new out of kindness. If I thought you were experience and still thought some of the things you have said recently I would be much harsher.

Rezzet.3614:

Bhawb.7408:

Supreme.3164:

What would happen to this game if necros would gain the ability to hugely mitigate focus fire with death shroud? Not the community or the devs want to know, the latter are well aware of what would happen to the game if necro would gain a powered up version of DS.

We would finally have the access to the same thing that everyone else can do. Yeah, it’d be insanely broken if Necromancer was suddenly balanced.

Supreme.3164:

Worst of all, you suggest to have a scaling death shroud. You want this mechanic to get stronger as the number of enemies increase……sorry bro, are you 100% certain about what you’re asking?

I’m asking for defense that does not lose effectiveness against multiple enemies. An invulnerability doesn’t break after kittens or 10,000 damage, it invalidates all attacks against you for the duration of the invulnerability. This is true of dodges, blocks, invulns, evades, but nothing that Necromancer has.

Supreme.3164:

First of all, can you explain what you mean for focus fire?
There is no meta build in the game that survive a huge amount of time when heavily focused by more than 1 player

Necromancer is the only profession that cannot negate damage beyond our first two dodges. Evades, blocks, vigor, none of it. We just sit there taking the damage, and pray that we have enough HP to passively tank it. This is bad design.

Supreme.3164:

What you’re really talking about is dmg avoidance that some professions possess( ele, warrior, thief, guardian, engi), they’re able to quickly move out of combat to lose focus; here I can say " yes necro do lack in the dmg avoidance department".

The necro is more than fine in the in-combat survivability department, for a class that does not need healing power or high toughness, the necro does more than fine in mitigating dmg. What necro needs need are ways to get of trouble when things get hot and I fully agree about this.

I’m asking for a block, evade, faster blinds, aegis, invuln, to be accessible via traits or skills so that we are on an equal defensive footing. I specifically do not want the ability to leave a fight, that isn’t what we are designed to do. I want (balanced versions) of things like Renewed Focus, the various warrior stances, mist form, blurred frenzy, etc.

I agree that in small fights (1v1, 2v2) Necromancer has good mitigation, even great mitigation if they build for it (other issues afflict those builds but that is an aside to our defense). It is only when CC and offensive pressure overwhelms our extremely limited dodges or kiting and removes our ability to actually apply our mitigating conditions and gain LF that we see an issue. Things like blocks, invulns, and stability (in balanced durations and accessibility, giving up a fair amount of offense or utility to gain them) would help a ton here.

Supreme.3164:

Your suggestion: a scaling DS, would transform the necro in a super bunker, something that can absorb dmg incoming from multiple sources…that would be silly, sorry to say that.

I’m not asking for DS to simply gain 20% LF per nearby enemy, I’m just pointing out that it is the only defense we really have, and we are the only profession whose primary defense gets worse and worse the more enemies there are. In essence I’m asking for some defense that actually works the same in 1v1s and 5v5s, which is something that Deathshroud currently does not do at all.

how do engi,thief,ranger,ranger,mesmer defenses get better the more enemies that focus you? anyone that gets focused by 3+ players will most likely die specially against a coordinated team with lot of cc

but hey i wouldnt mind necro having more survive if they lost their 8k+ damage autos

8k auto attacks? Just shhh.

The point about defense and numbers wasn’t that those classes gain effectiveness the more enemies are attacking it’s that necromancer loses effectivness.

Let me make this very easy, let’s use Mesmer as the example. So for this example let’s assume 100 players are going to gank one player but they are only allowed 2 seconds to do it K? First up the Necromancer. 100 players attack necromancer he goes into DS and melts instantly. 100 players attack mesmer mesmer hits f4 at the same time. THE MESMER LIVES!!!

comprende?

Tissitra.4153:

Well in group pvp only those classes are viable, that are useful. Noone would bother for example to pick up a thief who is usind soldier’s: sure, it has great survivability, but is otherwise rather useless because of the lacking burst.

So imagine just buffing necro survivability. It still lacks the support of the cele classes, while doing not much more condition pressure than say a cele engi using grenades.

The only (potentially) saving grace are the abilities to corrupt boons and transfer conditions (condi CLEANSES are in fact much better on other classes). These are potentially very useful, but in my view currently simply far too weak. Compare the few boon corruptions necros currently have for example to boon removal that mesmers bring (the latter is btw the main reason why mesmers are still sometimes taken over thieves).

Theives can remove boons as well, in fact both necros and theives have a distinct advantage agaisnt boon heavy classes, necros can corrupt them not just remove, as well as remove for extra damage. Theives can steal the kittening boons. Try again.

Its clear you are new to pvp and that’s fine we always need more pvpers. But your opinions don’t hold much weight at the moment.

Elitist.8701:

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

GhOst.4019:

Tissitra.4153:

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Those are personal experiences, hence why they are all over the place. Also, you are only counting terror. This is a Necro post in general and counts in power as well, not just terrormancer. Also you base your conclusion on what 3 people said? Show me on that list people in the top tier that said ele beats necro. Most of the results (if using that thread) you will find at best is a 50:50 combining both builds and situation. Only way they ele ever wins is if they LOS a lot (true and stated many times in that thread you are referencing). That requires them to get off point and loose it, to win. Everyone that stated ele wins said they LOS the necro. Can’t do that on point, and as a reminder, this is a point game. Either way it won’t be the fastest fight in the world. Option 1: Ele gets off point to try to win the fight, point goes neut and before the fight ends most likely someone on either side would have shown up. Option 2: Ele tries to defend the point and dies due to not being able to LOS. Power necro will tear through the ele and a terror mancer will corrupt your Armor and u are screwed as well. If you remember right, we are talking even fights, therefore everyone has their CD’s.

Either way doesn’t really matter. Necro would only be in that situation unless he absolutely had to. Necro would be better used in a 2v2 + anywhere else on the map and the team would benefit more from it.
EDIT:
There is 1 post from a top tier Necro in there that states Necro wins (terror and power) unless LOSed a crap load. There is 1 post from a top tier Ele in there that said Ele wins unless their Armour gets corrupted and power necro will always win. With all CD’s, that means necro wins unless ele can get lucky and miss the corrupt. You looked at ratios and didn’t read what anyone wrote.

Well you did start out with the claim that a necro is a hardcounter to a cele ele and anyone saying otherwise should learn their class. While I agree that the sample size in the thread I quoted was small, I think that it (and the severe underrepresentation in the current tourney play) is quite sufficient to disprove that. I focused on condi necro because power necros are doing better (while still not being a hardcounter to cele builds).

Back to what the original purpose of the thread was: I submit that the changes I suggested above are reasonable. In fact, almost none of them affect the current terrormaner build, they might however make other builds viable.

Seriously are you playing the same game as us?

In my experience a good DD ele has the upper hand vs terror necro. I was dueling Karina, one of the best necros yesterday, I won 3, he won 2, and those were in open field and the ones where I died I played unusually aggressive. On point I would’ve been unbeatable. Power necro stands almost no chance against a good DD ele. You have to proc CoD when they have no CDs and then get guaranteed dagger autos to win. You also have no way to bait LF to get out of wells. Most power necros dont even get me to 50% to proc CoD LOL.

About baiting lf, there is a way using ds 5 and dagger 3 that I can do sometimes…. but I also use wop and some eles will burn it on that… some…