Guild Wars 2

Elitist.8701:

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

GhOst.4019:

Tissitra.4153:

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Those are personal experiences, hence why they are all over the place. Also, you are only counting terror. This is a Necro post in general and counts in power as well, not just terrormancer. Also you base your conclusion on what 3 people said? Show me on that list people in the top tier that said ele beats necro. Most of the results (if using that thread) you will find at best is a 50:50 combining both builds and situation. Only way they ele ever wins is if they LOS a lot (true and stated many times in that thread you are referencing). That requires them to get off point and loose it, to win. Everyone that stated ele wins said they LOS the necro. Can’t do that on point, and as a reminder, this is a point game. Either way it won’t be the fastest fight in the world. Option 1: Ele gets off point to try to win the fight, point goes neut and before the fight ends most likely someone on either side would have shown up. Option 2: Ele tries to defend the point and dies due to not being able to LOS. Power necro will tear through the ele and a terror mancer will corrupt your Armor and u are screwed as well. If you remember right, we are talking even fights, therefore everyone has their CD’s.

Either way doesn’t really matter. Necro would only be in that situation unless he absolutely had to. Necro would be better used in a 2v2 + anywhere else on the map and the team would benefit more from it.
EDIT:
There is 1 post from a top tier Necro in there that states Necro wins (terror and power) unless LOSed a crap load. There is 1 post from a top tier Ele in there that said Ele wins unless their Armour gets corrupted and power necro will always win. With all CD’s, that means necro wins unless ele can get lucky and miss the corrupt. You looked at ratios and didn’t read what anyone wrote.

Well you did start out with the claim that a necro is a hardcounter to a cele ele and anyone saying otherwise should learn their class. While I agree that the sample size in the thread I quoted was small, I think that it (and the severe underrepresentation in the current tourney play) is quite sufficient to disprove that. I focused on condi necro because power necros are doing better (while still not being a hardcounter to cele builds).

Back to what the original purpose of the thread was: I submit that the changes I suggested above are reasonable. In fact, almost none of them affect the current terrormaner build, they might however make other builds viable.

Seriously are you playing the same game as us?

In my experience a good DD ele has the upper hand vs terror necro. I was dueling Karina, one of the best necros yesterday, I won 3, he won 2, and those were in open field and the ones where I died I played unusually aggressive. On point I would’ve been unbeatable. Power necro stands almost no chance against a good DD ele. You have to proc CoD when they have no CDs and then get guaranteed dagger autos to win. You also have no way to bait LF to get out of wells. Most power necros dont even get me to 50% to proc CoD LOL.

yeah I was looking more at the power necro has a better chance than terror.

In no way shape or form do I think terror is a counter to dd eles.

@tissatataratat It’s not an argument, it’s a question. You are the same person saying necro needed more condi manipulation, corruption, and cc but not a buff to bm and dm…..

Tissitra.4153:

GhOst.4019:

Tissitra.4153:

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Those are personal experiences, hence why they are all over the place. Also, you are only counting terror. This is a Necro post in general and counts in power as well, not just terrormancer. Also you base your conclusion on what 3 people said? Show me on that list people in the top tier that said ele beats necro. Most of the results (if using that thread) you will find at best is a 50:50 combining both builds and situation. Only way they ele ever wins is if they LOS a lot (true and stated many times in that thread you are referencing). That requires them to get off point and loose it, to win. Everyone that stated ele wins said they LOS the necro. Can’t do that on point, and as a reminder, this is a point game. Either way it won’t be the fastest fight in the world. Option 1: Ele gets off point to try to win the fight, point goes neut and before the fight ends most likely someone on either side would have shown up. Option 2: Ele tries to defend the point and dies due to not being able to LOS. Power necro will tear through the ele and a terror mancer will corrupt your Armor and u are screwed as well. If you remember right, we are talking even fights, therefore everyone has their CD’s.

Either way doesn’t really matter. Necro would only be in that situation unless he absolutely had to. Necro would be better used in a 2v2 + anywhere else on the map and the team would benefit more from it.
EDIT:
There is 1 post from a top tier Necro in there that states Necro wins (terror and power) unless LOSed a crap load. There is 1 post from a top tier Ele in there that said Ele wins unless their Armour gets corrupted and power necro will always win. With all CD’s, that means necro wins unless ele can get lucky and miss the corrupt. You looked at ratios and didn’t read what anyone wrote.

Well you did start out with the claim that a necro is a hardcounter to a cele ele and anyone saying otherwise should learn their class. While I agree that the sample size in the thread I quoted was small, I think that it (and the severe underrepresentation in the current tourney play) is quite sufficient to disprove that. I focused on condi necro because power necros are doing better (while still not being a hardcounter to cele builds).

Back to what the original purpose of the thread was: I submit that the changes I suggested above are reasonable. In fact, almost none of them affect the current terrormaner build, they might however make other builds viable.

Seriously are you playing the same game as us?

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

NeXeD.3042:

Starting to see the issues with building for survivability when it’s not possible I see. Eventually that leads to playing full glass power or full glass condi. I did tell you this a week or so ago.

This is one of the main problems with necromancer.

Practically ALL the defense comes from death shroud & spectral armor.
(while spectral armor is consistent death shroud becomes progressively weaker the more enemies you fight)

There really is no point in getting the defensive traits because their effect is generally so minimal it won’t matter in the long run anyway.

Only defensive traits I ever take are still in offensive traitlines.

Necros best defense is offense. Everyone gets it eventually.

zapv.8051:

Dagger auto should stay the same. Dagger 2 needs a significant cast time reduction to be strong. 3.5 seconds plus pre cast is absolutely absurd, needs to be 2.5 seconds for the whole thing including pre and after cast. Dagger 3 should get a 3/4 second cast and a 5 seconds shave on the cooldown. Then the weapon would be really versitile.

Would be extremely nice… the 2 thing could happen that 3 thing will probably never happen, but if it did I would honestly consider dagger cd reduction trait.

kpeatop.9458:

I must admit it that there is no adrenaline rush in the SPVP. Well I felt it once when we won with a guild lord kill on Foefire with 503 to 498, but that`s 1 game in 500/600 for me.
The only reason someone might play SPVP is the rank finisher. As soon as I get it I`ll stop with the PVP.

Opinions are like caterpillars eventually they turn into butterflies. But only if they are properly purelled in the lobby.

GhOst.4019:

Rin.1046:

If there are not enough similar ranked teams available the system will eventually search for other ranked teams. This can sometimes mean being faced against a vastly superior or inferior team.

If it is an inferior team, enjoy the easy win and seek comfort in the knowledge that the opposing team will hopefully have learned from you.

If it is a superior team, take the opportunity to learn from them. Having to compete against tough competition is often the best way to improve your own skill, as an individual and as a team.

It can be frustration at times, but try to make the best of it and use it to your advantage and you will start to enjoy the mismatched games more.

Well said. As it can be frustrating, but this is how you improve. You don’t improve by playing lesser teams… You got out rotated, you got out fought. Look at what and when they did it and start playing to counter that or do it yourself. One of the greatest learning experiences.

If you don’t ever want to improve, then I guess it will just make you angry. Happened a lot back in the day. We would get slaughtered and next match have them again. We would either come close to winning or win. Take it as a learning experience and grow.

No no no no no I pay for game I play how I want play I play I want win I no want lose so I want win so I should win because I pay Game.

Tissitra.4153:

NeXeD.3042:

Supreme.3164:

Just wanted to add my two cents I guess.

If you like, you can go to the mists, slap on settler’s or cleric’s and create it 30 seconds a minion master that takes ages to take down. So what? Any class has these builds that do nothing but run around until focus fired by 2 players. The point of a bunker is not simply to be hard to kill, but to provide support to your team, something that necros lack completely. A necro will never (and should never) be a better tank than a guardian can be. And guardian tanks, btw, are mostly extinct now due to the buffs to celestial.

The meta changes at all times but this will not nullify the importance of a guardian bunker, I won’t sit here trading blows regarding the current meta

Regarding my post, I have said that those traitlines should be buffed in order to create viable bunker/bruiser builds, aka give necro and Mesmer a source of support suitable for them, something different from current ele/engi/guardian but something supportive nonetheless

So for those of you who tl:dr

OP wants mesmer and necros to stop crying for buffs. OP’s solution buff the things necros and mesmer were asking for…….. my kittening head hurts.

Well… NO

I (and I think most necros) do not want buffing these traitlines, but the other aspects. For that matter, I think that what must be buffed is not the survivability, but the utility, more specifically boon corruption, condition manipulation and soft cc.

Well… NO

It’s the survivability. As a pvp necro we have two options full glass power or terror. Terror is the only one that ever goes into a defensive traitline and even then I would argue going 4 into Spite vs 4 into DM is better.

If your newer to pvp or necro your going to argue about how you have some secret tanky build using US that no one else has ever thought of before until you are blue in the face. Eventually everyone figures out they were wrong.

We have plenty of corruption. We have plenty of CC. We have plenty condition manipulation.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NeXeD.3042:

Sabre.8627:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Mainhand dagger is better designed than most weapons. You don’t want to use skills 2 and 3 on cooldown, which is better design than a number of other weapons in the game. Each skill has a use, and they’re pretty good for said use. But the uses for 2 and 3 aren’t ones you necessarily want to spam whenever.

Dark Pact could probably use either a cast time or cooldown reduction, though.

I seriously never use the #2 skill in pvp. Whenever I actually do end up pressing it, is when my life force is empty, all other skills and weapon-swap is on CD and the enemy is running away and just out of reach of my autoattack. Which barely ever happens- Am I doing something wrong? Lol

Nope that’s pretty much when you use it.

I use it a lot when I’m trying to fight on point (when death shroud is on cooldown) and I don’t need my staff skills at the moment. My playstyle is more of a “contest the point” one, so topping off health frequently is more important than high damage output. I don’t like swapping to staff unless I need one of those skills simply because Staff is a fairly lousy weapon to sit on for a while.

Life Siphon now is strong enough to act basically as a second Heal skill. If I find I need health, I pop that instead of Consume Conditions, letting me save my actual heal for a buttload of conditions. You don’t use it for damage (unless they are out of range for auto), but rather to save your actual heal.

I never have any points in blood and my only healing power comes from the Spite minor. I only use it when I’m stuck on dagger and target is out of range of auttos, I’m so glassy attempting to use it as a heal will get me killed, I typically use it to range proc air fire sigils.

Sabre.8627:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Mainhand dagger is better designed than most weapons. You don’t want to use skills 2 and 3 on cooldown, which is better design than a number of other weapons in the game. Each skill has a use, and they’re pretty good for said use. But the uses for 2 and 3 aren’t ones you necessarily want to spam whenever.

Dark Pact could probably use either a cast time or cooldown reduction, though.

I seriously never use the #2 skill in pvp. Whenever I actually do end up pressing it, is when my life force is empty, all other skills and weapon-swap is on CD and the enemy is running away and just out of reach of my autoattack. Which barely ever happens- Am I doing something wrong? Lol

Nope that’s pretty much when you use it.

Rising Dusk.2408:

NeXeD.3042:

I honestly think this is the biggest culprit of why some people struggle on necro, they keep trying to do some rotation when they should probably just be autoattacking with daggers.

There is a rotation for a power Necromancer, it’s just not very elaborate is all. When you’re constantly auto-attacking with Daggers and sometimes using DS, that is your rotation. To what you said before, every class in high-end PvP has to time their skills against what the enemy is doing. You can’t just mash buttons ad nauseum; you use your rotations when appropriate. Sometimes the best thing a D/D Ele can do, for instance, is run around auto attacking with Lightning Whip to heal.

Still, none of that says that the power Necromancer shouldn’t get a complex rotation. The only reason we don’t have one is because our alternative power weapons suck at damage, and a huge amount of our damage comes from Life Blast spam. An easy solution to this would be to make the GS have high burst but high cooldowns, so that our rotation would then be from GS into D/W for W5 and D1. They could also address this by making Focus a more attractive power option by improving Spinal Shivers.

Nope, there is no rotation. There are combos. but no rotation.

Supreme.3164:

Just wanted to add my two cents I guess.

If you like, you can go to the mists, slap on settler’s or cleric’s and create it 30 seconds a minion master that takes ages to take down. So what? Any class has these builds that do nothing but run around until focus fired by 2 players. The point of a bunker is not simply to be hard to kill, but to provide support to your team, something that necros lack completely. A necro will never (and should never) be a better tank than a guardian can be. And guardian tanks, btw, are mostly extinct now due to the buffs to celestial.

The meta changes at all times but this will not nullify the importance of a guardian bunker, I won’t sit here trading blows regarding the current meta

Regarding my post, I have said that those traitlines should be buffed in order to create viable bunker/bruiser builds, aka give necro and Mesmer a source of support suitable for them, something different from current ele/engi/guardian but something supportive nonetheless

So for those of you who tl:dr

OP wants mesmer and necros to stop crying for buffs. OP’s solution buff the things necros and mesmer were asking for…….. my kittening head hurts.

Roe.3679:

NeXeD.3042:

Different folks different strokes. Elementalists, engineers, and to some extent theives and mesmers all have sort of rotations. If you go into necro wanting to do rotations then your best bet is condi. Power is different there is no rotation timing your skills against what your opponent is doing is far more important.

This. Especially the last sentence.

I personally think that our autos are the main source of damage so we can manage our positioning and life force.

I honestly think this is the biggest culprit of why some people struggle on necro, they keep trying to do some rotation when they should probably just be autoattacking with daggers.

Your experiencing packet loss, your ping could stay decent but you would still have little lag spikes.

Different folks different strokes. Elementalists, engineers, and to some extent theives and mesmers all have sort of rotations. If you go into necro wanting to do rotations then your best bet is condi. Power is different there is no rotation timing your skills against what your opponent is doing is far more important.

Starting to see the issues with building for survivability when it’s not possible I see. Eventually that leads to playing full glass power or full glass condi. I did tell you this a week or so ago.

Shylock.4653:

NeXeD.3042:

Power ranger, mediguard, power necro, PU mesmer, Shoutbow warrior.

PU is WvW not sPvP.

Ohhhh I’m so sorry I was unaware PU spec was locked out of spvp.

He said easy, didn’t say viable.

SweetVibes.7692:

ronpierce.2760:

This is pretty common. Unfortunately, many of our woes gets swept up in “team game” and “before are just very team dependent and placement dependent”. Which obviously has its own issues. Without going into a long rant, it’s common to feel this way. We do well if unchecked but are pretty easy to check. Best to play for fun rather than victory or perhaps test around with less popular builds to try to be semi-effective, yet more defensive.

I’ve recently played a bit of 6/4/0/0/4 celestial dagger wh/staff with LF on marks. It’s surprisingly effective, clearly lacking but it’s something different Snd slightly less squishy than the meta, so maybe it’s sonething to toy around with. Sorry you’re having a hard time!

I can’t see how losing is still fun though, how being tossed around and completely obliterated every time I step out of spawn is fun. I’ve tried a tankie necro build before, it only extended the time I had before I met my downfall. My damage dropped by a lot and the only thing that kept me alive was my second health bar, but if focused by CC and what not, I was a goner in a split sec still.

I appreciate your input and good wishes, but I just can’t see how playing this class is fun. I must be a masochist, or maybe just too prideful to admit that my first class ever just straight up sucks and every other class can do a better job all while not being stomped to the ground rather easily.

Everyone’s saying Revenant is what the Necro should have been, so right now, I have my eyes set on that class.

Ahh it’s not so bad, power necros are especially good now. Even if they do kill us now if your team is smart they realize when there power necro goes down now one of the enemy should be down soon too.

I’m not the greatest but I do fine, if you need help some of the fellow necros would probably be more than happY.

Sagat.3285:

NeXeD.3042:

Sagat.3285:

Stand The Wall.6987:

arent there some awesome down state runes?
new necro downstate guild go!

Not entirely some have on death effects but no downstate effects I believe. +1 for the addition of such runes/sigils.

Pretty sure runes of afflicted proc on down with a death nova.

Exactly on death by which I mean when you go down but none for while you are downed, that rune is just poison on down 30 sec ICD.

The afflicted rune I’m pretty sure is triggered when you go in to downed state.

Power ranger, mediguard, power necro, PU mesmer, Shoutbow warrior.

These will all be relatively easy to pick up for new people, some of them are a little glassy but risk vs reward.

eozturk.7205:

well, maybe players abusing spectating system breaking hotjoins for their easy rewards/ap/wins and unranked/ranked are not fast enough like hotjoins? It is easy to run away from the problem instead finding a solution for it.

Yeah get more rewards from unranked ranked… so there goes that argument. It’s only a problem if you refuse to use the solution that has been provided to you, if you don’t you may come off as a petulant child.

Personally been rekking with power necro since patch.

Sagat.3285:

Stand The Wall.6987:

arent there some awesome down state runes?
new necro downstate guild go!

Not entirely some have on death effects but no downstate effects I believe. +1 for the addition of such runes/sigils.

Pretty sure runes of afflicted proc on down with a death nova.

ArthurDent.9538:

Will be interesting how radioactive do in the next few tourneys assuming they are still around.

wouldn’t want to be anywhere near 2 necros that are in constant down state, they gonna melt kitten.

flow.6043:

MethaneGas.8357:

Blast a light field = bam, retal while your health is covered by Deathshroud. Bam, more might. Bam, frost aura… weakness, blinds if you’re a power Necro with wells, more purple bubblez (Chaos Armor) if you’re with a Mesmer friend, or using SWall.

Blast a water field = BAM nothing happens.

I do support the idea though.
Keep in mind, even if it was on Weakening Shroud as well you’d never actually blast every 7 or 10 seconds, except maybe in PvE.
In PvP you’d obviously time DS according to your need for defense and then stay in DS for a while. So even if the blast was available every 7 sec you’d probably just use it every 15-20 seconds and half the time there wouldn’t even be a field to combo on.

Agreed, it would be insanely difficult to abuse it, or even come close to some of the other classes.

Actually pretty happy with this bug, now when I see another necro on my team I know he most likely won’t hit like a wet piece macaroni (I know the saying is noodle but a noodle has more dps)

Sorel.4870:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Remember, reflection skills works on 1# necro

None of the downed skills are projectiles, so no they don’t.

Ok, so I guess I’ve been playing scepter elementalist wrong all this time. I don’t know about necros, but warrior skills 1 and 2 are, thief skill 1 is, and engineer skill 2 is I believe.

He means necro.

Burnings damage is already high enough I’d prefer to make sure it had 30% extra duration. Plus I wouldn’t want to have to choose between poc and dhuum.

xbutcherx.3861:

I’m sorry but no class should be able to kill another player with full health while downstate.

Range the necro.

Sometimes pvpers give the newbies advice and the newbie goes “no you don’t understand I am traiting for healing power on my necro so I can solve the sustain problems”….. That’s just one example but in my experience that’s when the verbal abuse begins.

I usually try to help at first…. but once they tell me they know better I start abusing.

So is everyone going to start crying about down state necros until we get nerfed back into oblivion? Or are we going to accept that necro was supposed to have these traits working in downed like most or the other classes traits work in downed state.

CodeHavoc.7926:

Necromancer
Life Leech (Downed State): Updated the skill facts of this ability to be accurate.
Flesh Wurm: This skill will no longer activate if a valid path to the target point cannot be found.
Plague: This ability now grants 3 stacks of stability every 3 seconds, with a 3-second duration.
Lich Form: This ability now grants 1 stack of stability every 3 seconds, with a 3-second duration.
The following necromancer traits will now remain active when the necromancer enters the downed state:
Death Magic:
Minion Master
Flesh of the Master
Death Nova
Necromantic Corruption
Deadly Strength
Blood Magic:
Bloodthirst
Vampiric Precision
Vampiric Master
Vampiric Rituals
Vampiric
Curses:
Withering Precision
Barbed Precision
Soul Reaping:
Master of Terror
Spite:
Training of the Master
Chill of Death
Close to Death

Well it might be everything we wanted but it’s a nice step in the right direction. Now if we can have Dhuumfire in Curses where it needs to be……

Why should dhuumfire be in curses?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Soo, apparently kamikaze is the new Necro meta.

This is not a good thing.

It is for me lol

Holl.3109:

NeXeD.3042:

Holl.3109:

<3 necro subforum

Also, got angry PM’s from teefs that I downed and killed while in downed state

Which is funny since theives with blind and stealth are actually the best at stomping us now if they are competent.

He just put down the blind field, but I still got some hits through, which procced fire/air/Spinal shivers

I know so many people are kittening about necro sustain And whatnot…. these downstate buffs where a gigantic sustain buff… it was at the point in games yesterday where I was just running around with like 10 hp getting dropped and rallying people were avoiding the crap out of my downed body.

Holl.3109:

<3 necro subforum

Also, got angry PM’s from teefs that I downed and killed while in downed state

Which is funny since theives with blind and stealth are actually the best at stomping us now if they are competent.

Azzer.8137:

NeXeD.3042:

Have any of you actually been pvping since the patch…. power necro stronger than ever.

And if you meet any one even slightly less competent than the necro, the necromancer will lose 95% of the fights in PvP still, unless you have a peeler and if you do then you’re losing because 2 on 1 makes the capping and fighting easier other places.

So it’s strong and yet still extremely kitten compared to all other 7 professions.

Try and play against non kittens and you’ll see how much necromancers lack

I do play against non kittens and I do quite well as a power necro.

I don’t need a peeler for one on ones….. and my mobility is fine with pack runes and warhorn. I don’t want to be a kitten…. but I think it’s a l2p issue. Power necro is in an ok spot right now, especially now with all the downed trait stuff, if someone does knock us down I’m basically a lich on the ground lol.

flow.6043:

NeXeD.3042:

downed state necro with 25 might close to death and chill of death I pretty much insta killed a theif While down.

Does Siphoned Power interact with downed hp as well? Or did your allies buff you?

On a sidenote: It would be nice if you could see your condi/boon icon bar when down.

Dunno about siphoned power, I had the stacks already, bloodthirst increases the damage on the downed auto though which I found pretty cool.

I can still teleport with flesh wurm….. just doesn’t work exactly the same.

I was using retal with ntd up until yesterday, retal time is up enough with axe so I took this, downed state necro with 25 might close to death and chill of death I pretty much insta killed a theif While down.

Have any of you actually been pvping since the patch…. power necro stronger than ever.

This build wouldn’t work in pvp just fyi.

Your mother was a hamster! And your father smelled of elderberries.

Any power build that doesn’t take the 50% damage increase is just a mistake now.

Not to mention vamp signet sucks.

#DOWNSTATENECROOP

Ran full zerker mm with all downstate traits pack runes and air fire sigils yesterday. R I d I c u l o u s. I ressed myself hundreds of times yesterday.

Was ressing myself all day yesterday, have 2 years playing down state power necro.

also precision/vitality > healing power/toughness

Nope our place is glass in mid to high tier pvp. You will realize this eventually.

flow.6043:

Bhawb.7408:

It is used because of Axe 2, and its AA, afaik, plus the range.

I use the Axe in a hybrid but definitely not for its AA. And honestly, if I use all the other skills whenever they are off cd I’ll rarely ever get to auto attack anyway.

NeXeD.3042:

Axe is faster? Since when? You sure? I know you can make it faster by some fancy weapon stowing…. but normally I’m pretty sure dagger is still hitting more often …

According to wikipedia the full AA chain of dagger is 2.1 sec for 4 hits, and the axe needs 0.95 sec for 2 hits.
I haven’t tested it with that exact precision but it seems about right to me.

Bhawb.7408:

And all of that is basically because you rely on on-crit condition procs to be “hybrid”.

You’re right, depending on the type of hybrid build you want to use, Barbed Precision will contribute to your damage to some extent. And Ghastly Claws coupled with other attacks like Locust Swarm can actually ramp up a good amount of stacks, especially with sinister gear.
However, what you need to understand when you try to make a hybrid necro work is that unlike other classes you simply don’t have a weapon that does both direct and condition damage equally well like the warrior’s sword for example. Instead you need to pick a condition weapon and a power weapon, and then layer attacks in a way that makes conditions tick on your target while you follow up with direct damage.
Death Shroud innately works this way already, even more so if you trait for Dhuumfire and/or Terror. In a way it works as a natural bridge when you’re transitioning from a condi to a power weapon or the other way around.
So the fact that the axe or dagger aren’t doing any condition damage on their own doesn’t really matter, because usually you still have conditions from DS and your other set ticking until you swap back to them.

k, even so wouldn’t dagger still be optimal for damage given you are in range?

Bhawb.7408:

NeXeD.3042:

Yeah but why does axe even count as hybrid…. because it cause vuln on auto? Meh, feel like the dps, life force regen and immobilize make dagger win everytime… only time I take axe is on a pure glass dps build and I pretty much never press 1 since I time it out well enough I can just use 3 2 swap to ds lb lb lb axe 2 and back to d/h.

Dagger hits faster and harder probably proccing barbed precision more…. and even on a hybrid build are you really pressing one often enough for the vuln to be a reliable cover condi?

It is used because of Axe 2, and its AA, afaik, plus the range. Also now Axe finishes its AA faster than dagger will, you will get a tiny bit more attacks overall with Axe’s auto. And all of that is basically because you rely on on-crit condition procs to be “hybrid”.

Axe is faster? Since when? You sure? I know you can make it faster by some fancy weapon stowing…. but normally I’m pretty sure dagger is still hitting more often and none of the on crit sigils have a cooldown low enough for it to matter that much, I guess you could be proccing them more at range… seems to be the only possible reasoning I can see.

Yeah but why does axe even count as hybrid…. because it cause vuln on auto? Meh, feel like the dps, life force regen and immobilize make dagger win everytime… only time I take axe is on a pure glass dps build and I pretty much never press 1 since I time it out well enough I can just use 3 2 swap to ds lb lb lb axe 2 and back to d/h.

Dagger hits faster and harder probably proccing barbed precision more…. and even on a hybrid build are you really pressing one often enough for the vuln to be a reliable cover condi?

Axe horn don’t synergize very well. Would go d/h instead.