Guild Wars 2

Cod Eye.1632:

Kana.6793:
Stevoli.8795:
Patches always happen around noon Pacific time, I’m not sure why people are expecting something different this time.
The patch is happening at 5pm Pacific time.
Yeah just saw the tweets, booooo
ACT 1 of the “Shadow of the Mad King” update will go live late this afternoon (Pacific time), do not expect it until past midnight GMT.

Thanks Anet, lets screw the EU players.

Again, in every other situation (Dungeon reset, Daily reset) the American player base gets screwed. You get screwed like 5 times a year for events, we get screwed everyday… stop complaining.

Haha people complaining about CM… the dungeon where 90% of mobs can be skipped.

Eridani.8317:

Kind of annoying there is a big tagline on the main site “Coming 22nd October” which is now obviously proved to be untrue. Little respect for your non-American customers maybe?

And is it just me or did anyone else not get emails?

This is a joke right? EU is so much more favored in this game its not even funny. Us in the American time zones get a lovely little dungeon reset right in the middle (or start for PDT) of prime time forcing you to wait to run dungeons.

This event will run the same amount of hours regardless of the exact moment it starts. Get over it.

This is why you dont PUG, lol. If I am going to be completely honest my dungeon group will on occasion will need to bring in 1 pug to fill the group, and we are pretty strict on making sure the person is following our directions. Its not that we dont think that person is bad or incompetent, its just that our team does very specific things (Note – NOT exploits) and use our team work to ensure the fastest runs possible.

VanderBeltLegacy.4736:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

One token to rule them all.
Any character to find them.
One vendor to bring them all,
And in the forge bind them.

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

Point taken, but still; there has to be a better way than to just say “go grind dungeon X until you’ve accumulated enough tokens”. Even with the different dungeon paths, it still restricts a player to only certain content to accomplish their goal.

no different to grinding UW/FoW in gw1 to get x amount of ecto’s/obsi shard’s, i mean shore i could farm TotpK but it was faster/easier to grind UW
or grinding GoA for gems, to trade for an armbrace to trade for a weapon.

so coming from GW1, I have to say this is very BLIZZARD attitude. of people “i want the armor/prestige, but don’t wanna do what others have had to do”.

To be fair you had the option to purchase Ectos and Shards from other players. You cannot do that with dungeon tokens.

That being said I still support that a Universal Token System is not in the best intrest of the game.

I know this is for Karma, but its getting really frustrating running dungeons and getting hit with DR. We are encouraged to run dungeons multiple times (I am fine with this concept by the way) and in doing so get efficient at doing it, but then are punished for going to quickly. My guild group can clear any path in AC (legitimately) in around 15 minutes… standing around to ensure it takes us 20 mins (our tested limit to ensure everyone is DR safe) is boring and adds nothing to the experience.

Rask – Exactly. People make it sound like its going to take months to get. 8 days. EIGHT days of doing a dungeon once a day and you have a full armor set. (And really, the math is 7.6 days so 7 days of 3 paths and 1 day of 2 paths…. thats even shorter than a full 8 days!)

Targren.6073:

theeagleeye.7693:

LOL. Too bad you don’t think that way, and that’s probably the reason why you don’t have a full dungeon set. How is my post fanboying? Are we spitting out words that don’t make sense anymore, just to insult other people? I understand the point you are trying to make though, but tell me, how does that solve the problem of having people run the easiest, fastest instance for the tokens, just to buy an armor set from a different dungeon? You know very well this is going to be a problem, and don’t pretend that this isn’t going to happen.

Actually, the reason I don’t have a full dungeon set is that I don’t want a full dungeon set. It leads to top/bottom heavy builds since every piece has the same stats and a more balanced approach is better for maximum flexibility. It’s also not worth getting to transmute onto a good armor set since A) Having a separate transmute stone for 80 is a blatant BS cash grab, and they’re ugly as hell. They might be nice with OPs idea, since I could get them to transmute different stats on to good-looking armor, but as it is, it’s pretty pointless. There are less annoying ways to deck out in exotics.

At this point, I’m running each dungeon path once to get the achievements, then grabbing the lowbie gold armor to salvage or feed to the forge just to get the tokens out of my bank slots, because they’re useless otherwise.

And no, I wasn’t throwing out a word to insult you. I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you were blinded by loyalty rather than just incapable of reading and thinking in a straight line.

As for the problem of people running the same path over and over again, that’s already been dealt with with the stupid DR mechanic. If anything, the OPs idea would INCREASE dungeon visibility, because you’d get groups that float between the different dungeons, since they want the tokens. Yes, some people would run the same path over and over again, but we ALREADY have that going on. That’s an issue of bad design, not a consequence of OPs idea.

It’s a good idea from a playability standpoint. The current implementation promotes endless, mindless grinding, since when you do the same dungeon over and over again, it gets easier, and then it BECOMES the easy path that you’re apparently so afraid of. That it offends someone’s kitten/ego is a stupid reason to dismiss it.

You are incorrect in your first statement…. The dungeons offer 3 variants of stats so you can mix and match.

SOMETHING LIKE SE… as in higher level, more difficult.

Cool accomplishment and all, but AC is not the dungeon people are complaining about with difficulty (Not to mention path 1 since its by far the easiest to do with less than 5 people). Go Duo something like SE and then you’ll impress me.

Jaha.2840:

PhiLL.1746:

I have a different suggestion…
While i understand that an universal token is a bad idea, why not make every set be bought with 60% from its main dg and the other 40% distributed among the other dgs?
EX: Now, you need 210 Arah tokens for Arah shoulders.
It could be something like 126 Arah tokens plus 12 tokens from each of the other 7 dgs.

If the goal of acquiring a full set dungeon gear is to be both enjoyable and rewarding, then universal tokens are a necessity. For a set of dungeon armor you need 1380 tokens (that’s 23 runs @ 60 tokens per run). 23 runs!? And that’s just the armor! You’re killing us, anet . We desperately need some type of dungeon token currency exchange. Here’s an idea:

60 dungeon tokens in exchange for 20 universal tokens
20 universal tokens in exchange for 20 dungeon tokens.

It’s a diminished return of 3:1 making daily dungeons (60 tokens) the same value as running a different dungeon path for a second time in the same day (20 tokens). I don’t see any harm in a simple system like that. We want to enjoy all the dungeons, not the same friggin one 23+ times in a row!

23 Run divided by 3 (Because a dungeon is made of ALL 3 PATHS….) is 8 days. If dont have the dedication to run the dungeon once a day for 8 days (Which for easier dungeons like CM/AC/TA thats a little over an hour a day) then you honestly dont deserve the skin. The argument is great till you actually analyze it and realize, wow it really doesnt take that long like everyone makes it seem.

Overunity.4273:

Why not let the players decide ?
Make life easy for yourself ?
So what if players find the easiest or more likely most entertaining dungeons to collect gear with universal tokens .

I suggest stop trying to play God and let people who enjoy farming and crafting ,do it .
Let people that want a particular look of armour collect it doing whichever content they enjoy .
Why is there a need to control the playerbase ?
What is the big deal if a percentage chose the quickest dungeon to farm tokens ?

I personally think most of it looks crap apart from COF look .
All the stats are the same so honestly whats the big deal ?

In other mmo’s you have to get the best stats to attempt the next harder dungeon ,but here if you have your heart set on arah look gear you can do that once you are lvl 80 with some cheap lvl78 exotics from tp .

What percentage of the playerbase are going to farm wipefests for same stat gear ?
Please you have a very beautiful and technically perfect game but at 80 pretty pixels on gear are not going to keep the majority interested .

Pretty pixel kept GW1 alive for 7 years…. I think they know what they are doing.

If we are gonna let the players run the game Id like 10 of each legendary please. Why not let me turn on God Mode so I dont die and a wall hack would be cool so I can just go where ever I want.

I would just like to put out there that peoples perception of money may be skewed. A bad skinned exotic goes for a few gold and rare skins go for 15+ gold. People who are talking about only have 5-10 gold… that is a considerable sum to be honest. What are you trying to buy in this game that is more expensive that you dont expect grind for?!

On a different note though – I do 2 dungeon paths a day. Takes about 3 hours and I end the day about 4-6 gold richer, so I dont see how accumulating some wealth is taking people that long to do.

Fiesbert.9816:

If I may be completely honest, you sound like a 12 year old who is upset because everything in your life isnt being handed to you. Welcome to the real world, sometimes things take a little effort.

I like most others I play games to be entertained, to take a break of the hardships of real life.
One thing the current most succesful games have in common, regardless of genre, is how conviently accessible content is. Which especially applies to succesful MMOs.
By having content not being available by simply pressing a button a developer blocks off a huge part of his player base of the content. (20% of the players have 80% of the playtime in WoW Source http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEwQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcs.hiram.edu%2F~walkerel%2Fcs363%2FWowGameHoursPresentation.ppt&ei=1Ux4UKWtM4zHsga49IHYCw&usg=AFQjCNEYjXUaceQVfxXH7yy2HrHhmBOEhg&sig2=lYKQNC5YVtRbwkmmrooxWQ&cad=rja )
Those that don’t have much time to invest in a game are also those guys that consume content the slowest and the customers with highest buying power.
Due to not having much time, for whatever reason, they are also impatient and will quickly abandon a game if it fails to deliver fun. The same kind of guy that wouldn’t bother to read a forum.
The game wouldn’t be damaged by an LFG tool, it would only gain by it.

MMOs are a different beast. They are ment to be played over long periods of time while investing your time and energy. If you are purely interested in content and content only why are you playing a game that is based purely around social interaction with other players?

Sounds like bad target priority. Though there are many ways to complete the most dangerous groups here are by far the Rangers, Elementalists and Necromancers. With good targeting and focus fire any one enemy can be downed quickly. The key here is to keep moving from the warriors to stop the stun and as always keep out of the red circles.

As for both path 1 and 3. When you reach the burrows all out glass cannon builds work wonders here. You can DPS down a burrow before it spawns with no issues, as long as you have enough DPS. Its then a matter of knowing where the next ones will spawn and speed boosts.

Fiesbert.9816:

Call me spoiled but I’m used to not having to put any effort into playing a dungeon, which makes me unwilling to do so.
I’m not alone with my stance towards “manual grouping”, its quite a flaw.
If I were to start Diablo 3, Battlefield 3, World of Warcraft or Star Wars the Old Republic (just to name a few) I could choose what content I want to play and instantly do so. Any obstacles between me and content are bad for the game, especially if other games don’t have them.

DancingPenguins.9875:

Everyone will bail at the first sign of trouble. It’ll just make things worse.

Can’t confirm this claim. It worked fine in World of Warcraft, DC Universe Online and Star Wars the Old Republic. In all three games you could leave the dungeon until you got a new guy and play other content during the wait. Thats exactly how it should be.

This post ends this thread right here. You are comparing GW2 to some games that arent even in the same genre. BF3, DIII… those games are not MMOs. BF3 is ment to be hot joinable, which by the way is available in GW2’s PvP (I dont understand how BF3 can even be used here, seeing as dungeons are exclusively PvE content). Next up DIII. Sure you can hot join, good thing DIII is purely story driven, doesn’t require any content to have more than 1 player, and thus is not related to GW2 (Just because both are RPGs doenst mean you can compare 1 to 1).

Next up, your comparison to WoW and SWTOR. Sure, you bring a valid point that barriers to content are bad. However, you must be kidding yourself if you think it is difficult to find and form a group. Not to mention joining a guild or making friends are a very viable way to create groups quickly.

If I may be completely honest, you sound like a 12 year old who is upset because everything in your life isnt being handed to you. Welcome to the real world, sometimes things take a little effort.

AngryToaster.5190:

That might make sense if the Arah gear was actually better than Ascalonian Catacombs gear, but it isn’t. All the gear is lvl80 exotic. The only difference between gear from the token vendors is the various stats. The desirability of these stats depends on the player’s choice, but they all add up to the same gear value.

Separate but equal dungeon tokens limits the free use of dungeons, and provides no actual benefit.

And in GW1 a weapon did the same damage as all other weapons, but the difficulty to acquire them were what drove cost. Assume you make this one dungeon token system, all the players get the gear they like the skin the most of… then what? They have nothing to strive after, and thus no reason to stick around. Providing a one dungeon token system would be akin to making legendaries no more difficult to get than any other exotic.

Some things NEED to be harder to attain.

I would really just like to point out a few things:

It takes 8 Days to get all pieces of armor for a dungeon clearing all paths (which constitutes a ‘dungeon run’) once per day. It takes a maximum of 3 days to get the most expensive weapons. Depending on the dungeon and group lets say that it takes around 2.5 hours to clear a dungeon (Some take much shorter, others longer). Thats 20 hours to get max armor over 8 days. If you think that is a long time then…. well you obviously have never had to truly grind in your life. Get over the fact you can only run it once per day, run more than 1 dungeon and get rewards faster.

Note, during the correct path to find this there are strange noises which can be heard when you head in the general direction. Not to mention the bonus you get for reaching it (15 mins of Protection and Might). I dont understand why you would add those things in addition if it was purely a designer having a little fun.

Oh… my….

I really hope english isn’t this persons first language.

Yet you wont tell us how to get there! I am running CM tonight, PM me I would love to see this thing.

Impressions only go so far. Arah armor is hideous on most characters. When I eventually do get that armor I will never wear it. This is something I liked in GW1: Armor and weapons showed you knew how to make money, titles showed you were dedicated to the game. GW2 feels like they tried to merge the two.

soistheman.7208:

Majority of players are doing dungeons for tokens and because they require many runs to get enough tokens to get whatever they want, they are simply rushing, often skipping everything they can to reduce the time to beat dungeons. I feel no one is actually playing dungeons as they are meant to be which is simply just to have fun playing. I feel dungeons are better off without tokens or that matter without rewards, so that people who join dungeon party are looking for playing game contents. (Like the way FoW or UW were in GW1 or how it was during beta weekends)

This is just so untrue. Even before end chests were added into GW1 both FoW and UW offered rewards that you could only get in those areas, creating a reason to do them. No one is going to play content over and over with no chance for any rewards. Remember, this isnt a single player game. Content cannot stand alone purely on ‘fun’ because once you finish something there is no reason to play it again, in which case there is no reason to keep playing. Even without subs Anet needs people to play in hopes they purchase gems to create revenue.

Doing dungeons over and over again for a chance of loot isnt fun. Never was, never will be. Would much rather do a dungeon knowing at minimum I am going to get something worth my time.

They still have over 1 day left. This thread is a little premature.

No offense intended as you clearly are just trying to help the community but as long as you have a list of things you need, its not that big of a deal to just keep track of what you have left to do.

If you implement up to date pricing so that you dont have to calculate your remaining cost that is one thing, but right now its just a glorified list.

AngryToaster.5190:

How does gathering tokens for vendors that sell things I don’t need maximize my rewards? The only vendor offering the gear I want (healing power and condition damage) only accepts CM tokens. The fact that I can’t run other dungeons and earn this gear is itself the problem.

The argument that all armors should be standardized for all dungeons is a valid point (Note in GW1 things started this way as well before giving way to insignias).

Wethospu.6437:

Sorry, got one picture twice.

I don’t know how exploitable that is. Until I know better I will keep my mouth shut.

You make me sad

(Not even a PM?!)

Fay.2735:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Can I ask how fast you are finishing? My group legitimately fights through a dungeon get to the last boss in ~20 minutes and then sit and wait till the 30 minute mark rolls around do we can finish off the boss and not be punished.

This is why Anet needs to give more information on their DR system. Very quickly our group is getting upset about just sitting around waiting and we most likely will move on if that issue is not resolved or more information is released.

What dungeon are you doing? I don’t think we ever finish dungeons in 20 minutes but we like to take our time, have a laugh and stuff. We spend most of the day in dungeons so we sometimes go AFK and such as well. We just aren’t in a rush to get to the end but rather enjoy the journey. (I’ve completed all dungeons except for Arah)

We right now are specifically doing AC and CM. We aren’t ‘trying’ to go fast, we just go through it. Most of us are friends IRL so we also chat and joke and laugh. Once you do a dungeon enough times you know who to target, what to take out and how to do it quickly.

AngryToaster.5190:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

One token to rule them all.
Any character to find them.
One vendor to bring them all,
And in the forge bind them.

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

I’m looking at the dungeon vendors right now. An exotic Corrupted Orrian Masque cost 180 Shards of Zhaitan, and comes with 45 power, 32 precision, and 2% crit damage. An exotic Ascalonian Clergy Cowl costs 180 Ascalonian Tears, and comes with 45 power, 32 toughness, and 32 vitality. The same level of reward is offered for both dungeons. Difficulty currently has no impact on the quality of your reward.

He’s my personal experience. My engineer build uses condition damage and healing power. The only gear I’ve found with both those stats is purchased with Seals of Beetletun. This means two things. First, to acquire desirable exotic gear, I need to farm CM dozens of times. Second, all the other dungeons have no desirable gear for me. I can run them, but I have no hope for useful loot from them. These facts leave me with days of running the same dungeon over and over. This gets old very fast, as you can imagine.

If you’re really worried about people farming AC to buy Arah gear, you could scale the rewards for dungeon difficulty. Or scale them against how many times the player has run that dungeon recently. Or scale against how my times the whole server has run that dungeon recently.

I would love to experience all the dungeons in the game. But you don’t leave the arcade with a pile of tickets as your souvenir. You trade them for a mug or stuffed animal, which you can cherish as a physical sign of your ski-ball prowess.

I would like to just make note about the comment of running a dungeon over and over and over and thus becoming boring. While I agree that it would certainly get boring, their system is designed so that you are enticed to run a dungeons once per day and move on to something else. That is the way to maximize your rewards versus a grind to get something as quickly as possible.

any chance you can describe where thats at?

Fay.2735:

As far as I understand the DR system is that every first run you do of the day of a path you get 60 tokens, 20 of those being the standard for a path where as 40 is the bonus for the first time of that day.

I also believe (Don’t quote me if I’m wrong) that DR also kicks in if you are doing dungeon after dungeon within 30 minutes or less (roughly). At least from reading peoples comments the ones hit by DR either didn’t wait till day reset, did the path already or have been doing them too fast.

I do a lot of dungeons every day but I’ve never once been hit by DR. Nor have any of the people I do the dungeons with so the DR system is working fine for people who do dungeons normally without going too fast.

Can I ask how fast you are finishing? My group legitimately fights through a dungeon get to the last boss in ~20 minutes and then sit and wait till the 30 minute mark rolls around do we can finish off the boss and not be punished.

This is why Anet needs to give more information on their DR system. Very quickly our group is getting upset about just sitting around waiting and we most likely will move on if that issue is not resolved or more information is released.

The way my guild does this is to have all 5 destroy the south burrow. Then 1 goes to kite the mobs and start destroying the newly spawned burrow in that back room. The group them runs to the next spawned burrow, then to the one at the door from the start. Then just destroy the next spawned burrow and then move to the next one.

The point I am getting at is the burrows dont spawn till you destroy the previous one. Combine that knowledge with the ability to melt the burrows you should be able to keep the spawns at a minimum and have no issues. Most of these dungeons battles just require you know the mechanics and they become very easy.

Good chance you are running them to fast. Dungeon DR to stop speed clearing is terrible. I run AC once a day with my guild and we literally have to wait outside the final boss battle for around 10 minutes so that we aren’t penalized for going through the dungeon too quickly. Its not our fault we found efficient builds that allow us to complete things quickly.

Gray.9650:

I have yet to see anyone on these forums give an actual logical reason why random drop is better than the system now.

because almost everything is better than running the same dungeon over and over. as I said random is not bad when done right. for example tradeable also means sellable. If I can’t or don’t want to find someone to trade, I just sell it – and buy the thing I want in return. which also opens other possibilities to get said item, by doing stuff that is subjectively more fun than running the same dungeon over and over and over. random drop + tradeable also means you don’t come in contact with the RNG if you don’t want to if you just buy/trade the item. the progression is more or less fixed like with a token system while offering much more choice inbetween.

and before someone comes up with “b-b-but the armor is an achievement!” – yeah right, the achievement you spend X hours in an instance.
the mentioned system worked fine in gw1, it even added longevity to the game buy not shoehorning players into content they don’t want to do and burning them out.

So you basically are saying that you want dungeons to be farmable so that you can make money to buy things from other areas that you want. That is not at all the point of dungeons…..

Yes, the armor and weapons are a symbol that you have completed an area the exact same way that in GW1 you had to complete portions of FoW in order to get Obi Armor and you couldnt get faction armor without having specific ranks regardless of if you purchased everything to create it.

Honestly this just sounds like people want Arah armor with only putting in the effort to clear AC.

precisioNist.2071:

Parisalchuk.9230:

precisioNist.2071:

Well, when I said dungeon I actually meant one dungeon path.

And for the loot reward, I was just echoing the OP. I haven’t actually thought about this that much to point out the best way for this to be done but all I know is I want harder content that will feel rewarding.

I think we can all agree that we would like to see some changes to dungeons, but Anet have made very deliberate attempts to separate themselves from the mold of MMOs. I dont think the solution for dungeons is going to be reverting to the standard that you see in every other game. If that were the case, why play GW2?

Standard in every other game? What does that even mean? I’ve never addressed any other games on my post. Are you saying GW2 is only for players who can’t handle harder content? I don’t get it.

Dungeons already exist in the game. I was just echoing a suggestion that would add the “same” type of dungeons in the game with harder difficulty and better rewards. The system is already in the game I would just like the difficulty to be more punishing for players who aren’t ready for it. ArenaNet never said that GW2 can’t have more challenging content. (I never mentioned having 20man raids or new epic raid exclusive loot which are things every other MMO have).

By the way, I LOVE Guild Wars 2. This is why I’m trying to get suggestions out there about things that in my opinion would make the game better than it already is. Because I’m planning to play this game for a LONG time. I don’t want it to fail or run out of content.

The way loot would be distributed via the OPs suggestion, the suggestion you openly support, is the same system used in most popular MMOs to date. That is specifically what I am talking about (your argument about you not addressing other games makes no sense by the way… your talking about a loot system that is featured in the majority of other MMO games – Beat the boss get a random drop, so my argument is very valid). Besides the fact that this system of random drops does not provide ‘better loot’ as you argue. A random system of loot drop is not a better system and I STILL wait for you to give me a reason as to why it is. To support this argument one final time I would like to point to the story. Players were very upset that at the end of the game you are given random loot bags rather than a token which could be traded for an item of their choosing that shows their accomplishment of completion. Please, how is completing a dungeon any different, and thus would provide different results. When you beat story you had a chance for Exotic or rare items…

As I stated in another thread, the answer for more difficult content should not be any adjustment to the dungeon system but rather the introduction of elite zones similar to GW1. Note that this is very different from a hardmode version of dungeon as the OP suggested. Right now dungeons have their own structure that is very specific; fight smaller enemies leading to a boss in a very linear fashion. Elite areas akin to GW1 would involve nonlinear missions that must be accomplished to win.

spreadsheets.9805:

Parisalchuk.9230:

People need to realize even in Melee kiting is very easy. Animation goes that he is about to do it: WALK THROUGH HIM. Melee gets a bad rap for a lot of things with coned AOE since the common thought is you cant back out of it, but really getting behind an enemy who is stationary doing a burst skill, really not that hard at all.

To beat these guys, pay attention to the fight and not your skills, learn the attack animations, dont stop moving and always keep firing. Follow those tips in any dungeon and things generally will go alright.

That’s a bad idea against Scavengers and will only work if it’s not targeting you. Scavengers can turn at their normal rate while channeling their attack. I’m not 100% positive, but pretty sure that they also will just jump in the other direction if you try to sidestep it.

You have to dodge. Best way to do it for melee builds after that is using an immunity skill and just burning them down, really.

If you don’t have an immunity skill ready, just go away. Don’t walk around the mob or anything stupid, as that will change the area where damage is being dealt. Just dodge roll backwards. This way, your team won’t be caught up in sudden AoEs they didn’t anticipate.

You can roll through them. They cannot turn face and attack you, they MUST turn. You do not need to use immunity for melee to be effective in this fight.

precisioNist.2071:

Well, when I said dungeon I actually meant one dungeon path.

And for the loot reward, I was just echoing the OP. I haven’t actually thought about this that much to point out the best way for this to be done but all I know is I want harder content that will feel rewarding.

I think we can all agree that we would like to see some changes to dungeons, but Anet have made very deliberate attempts to separate themselves from the mold of MMOs. I dont think the solution for dungeons is going to be reverting to the standard that you see in every other game. If that were the case, why play GW2?

Yup, agree with this 100%. The current system is hidden and very feature lacking.

Zats.2308:

well the whole thing im not looking to run dungeons everyday for the rest of this game im a main WvWer what i like but getting exotic gear makes it alot more fun so just looking for a server thhat has alot of people doing dungeons for like a week or 2 for me to get my gear

Thats the glory of the guild rep system. You can be in up to 4 guilds. Wana run a dungeon? Rep the dungeon guild and ask around. (I know this works by the way, this is what I do)

Gray.9650:

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Becasue that kind of gameplay was “grindy”, and people was harrassing a dungeon hoping (praying) for weeks a drop. Now is a matter of master a dungeon, not grind 1000 times until your set drops and is complete. Is it better? Billion times.

don’t forget you can simply BUY the stuff from other players. no need to grind DOA for tormentor weapons if you don’t like DOA – you could do what you wanted and get the money/drops/whatever to trade the armbrace or get the mats for the armor, which made the game feel way less grindy.

grinding the same dungeon over and over for armor/weapons/gifts is the complete opposite of that concept.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Any system that is purely based on drops would be a system that I would not play (a system that I see suggested a lot). I would not waste my time doing something that already give meager rewards for a chance of getting an item that I wanted or could use.

drop only system isn’t bad if you can trade stuff. no one likes being stuck with stuff he can’t use which makes the time spend to get it feel pretty pointless. but if you can trade the light boots with the necro in your group who got the heavy boots…. (which then again would require an actual trading function, not “I send you mine and might not get anything in return”).
given the dropchance is sane enough and the loottable small enough to not drop different crap every run.

in the end a drop based system isn’t bad if properly integrated

Even with the addition of tradable pieces I dont see what you gain in doing this. You still add frustration in now having to find a partner to trade, and if you add an NPC who would trade then there really is no reason to add that system, because deep down you basically are using your useless item as a ‘token’ to trade for the item you actually want.

I have yet to see anyone on these forums give an actual logical reason why random drop is better than the system now.

precisioNist, as it stand right now you can do 1 dungeon and get 1 piece of gear. A dungeon path is not the full dungeon. Do all 3 paths (which constitutes a dungeon) and get 180 tokens which can be used for to get 1 of 3 armor piece, saved for more expensive armor piece, or traded other various items. I dont understand how adding in a random drop which may or may not even be useful to you would add anything to the sense of accomplishment of a dungeon. In fact I argue that by making the end reward a drop you diminish the sense of accomplishment when I finish a dungeon and get an item that is worthless to me or a duplicate of something I already had.

Fay.2735:

Parisalchuk.9230:

People need to realize even in Melee kiting is very easy. Animation goes that he is about to do it: WALK THROUGH HIM. Melee gets a bad rap for a lot of things with coned AOE since the common thought is you cant back out of it, but really getting behind an enemy who is stationary doing a burst skill, really not that hard at all.

To beat these guys, pay attention to the fight and not your skills, learn the attack animations, dont stop moving and always keep firing. Follow those tips in any dungeon and things generally will go alright.

I melee on my Mesmer half the time because I’ve learned to watch the animations. That said if people are struggling with certain fights where ranged is the easier option I would advice them staying ranged till they learn to recognise the animations.

Oh definitely, but as I am sure you can attest to melee is clearly an option in almost every fight. I see a lot of people here and on Guru suggest falling back to range because something is difficult. Just want to make it clear that this is not your only option!

precisioNist.2071:

From my experience, the boss summons those extra mobs when you don’t kill all the initial mobs (the ones he’s talking to at the start of the encounter) on time. I’ve heard somewhere that there’s like an 8 second window for the group to kill all the mobs (from the time you hear him start his speech with them). If you fail, hardmode activates and the boss summons those extra mobs. If you succeed then its the easy tank-spank-dodge fight that everyone is familiar with.

I’ve seen pug groups activate this by standing close enough to the encounter to start his speech but then wait a while for that AFK warrior before actually killing the mobs. This immediately fails the condition and activates “hard mode”.

I am not 100% sure about this. But from my experience, this hypothesis seems to hold true.

This isnt true. Did this last night with the guild, we stood their while giving his speech longer than this ‘8-second window’, jumped in, killed all the mobs and then took down the boss without him summoning anything.

Any system that is purely based on drops would be a system that I would not play (a system that I see suggested a lot). I would not waste my time doing something that already give meager rewards for a chance of getting an item that I wanted or could use. This is the wonderful part of the token system, I know what rewards I am going to get, I know how long its going to take me and I get exactly what I want. Not everything in this world needs to be random chance.

Servers dont matter to much for dungeons, just finding groups. My advice, find a guild (or make one) with people you typically run dungeons with. I used to PUG with groups, but when you starting getting organized, dungeon runs are just that much faster and smoother.

The past 2 days my typical group has had to grab 2 pugs and things took way longer just because we had to explain the way we wanted to do certain paths to make them go faster.

(Note: this isnt a knock on players or PUGs, but when you work together all the time you learn each other tendencies and find quick things along paths that you can do to make runs go faster. PUGs are fine.)

People need to realize even in Melee kiting is very easy. Animation goes that he is about to do it: WALK THROUGH HIM. Melee gets a bad rap for a lot of things with coned AOE since the common thought is you cant back out of it, but really getting behind an enemy who is stationary doing a burst skill, really not that hard at all.

To beat these guys, pay attention to the fight and not your skills, learn the attack animations, dont stop moving and always keep firing. Follow those tips in any dungeon and things generally will go alright.

Soban.3754:

Eviator.9746:

So far the responses are about 50/50. That it’s not 90/10 is a bummer. I was hoping that GW2 would be different. It’s not the trinity anymore, but many still think dedicated tanks are still needed, thus defensive plate wearers are believe

The trinity still exists, but heavy doesn’t matter. Thieves and Mesmers are actually very high tier PvE tanks, for example.

Sure the trinity still exits, the point was that any class can do any role. However there is no need to run in this method when each person can take care of themselves. You ‘lose’ a little damage output on 4 people to ‘gain’ the damage output of a 5th person not forced to spec into something.

As I said in my original response, you can do it both ways no issue, but in my groups we are way faster going balanced builds versus balanced parties.

Soban.3754:

Parisalchuk.9230:

4 Glass cannons sure, but not 5 people running builds with survivability and damage. What are you going to do when your 1 tank/support cant keep agro since in dungeons the vast majority of enemies are fought in close spaces with AOE attacks? (Not to mention you cant just hit an enemy and keep them on you like classical MMOs)

I’m not sure I follow. If you’re saying 5 people in soldiers is better than having ranged DPS in berserker’s with a tank in soldiers, I’ll have to disagree.

That is not at ALL what I am saying. Spec your equipment to your desire. You say its better to have specific roles for players so that your team is forced into set responsibilities. I 100% completely disagree with that. In all my dungeon runs when we run specific roles we waste so much time having to respec for a certain group or boss that has mechanics that we need to beat. Not to mention when you lose containment using classical trinity method you waste time either trying to regain containment, taking longer to kill due to kiting, or getting your dead off the ground. If you spec balanced builds you face non of those issues. Ill explain based on a simple math model. If you have your party of 5, and you have 5 points to distribute in support, tank, and DPS the classical model would look something like this:

1 Player with 5 in tank, 1 player with 5 in support, 3 players with distributed DPS.

WIth a balanced build approach you still have the same distribution to give but now everyone has 1 in everything. You dont lose and damage output, you dont lose any support and each class is capable of tanking at any given time. With the addition of dodge rolls this means you match the damage output of your speced builds, retain the same support and a person can tank for X amount of time, dodge roll out and a new character comes in.

So please, tell my why its better to run in a group which requires specific roles when you dont need to and will achieve the same end result in equal or better time.

Soban.3754:

Balanced team comps are the best overall. Five glass cannons who have to kite everything put out inferior damage to 3-4 damage builds + 1 tank and/or support.

4 Glass cannons sure, but not 5 people running builds with survivability and damage. What are you going to do when your 1 tank/support cant keep agro since in dungeons the vast majority of enemies are fought in close spaces with AOE attacks? (Not to mention you cant just hit an enemy and keep them on you like classical MMOs)

There is literally a post – with response by a Dev right under this one. They know its a bug, they are looking at it, we just have to wait. Making a daily thread about this topic isnt helping anything.