Guild Wars 2

well, now wait for (other) double dual wielders… Axe/torch, Axe dagger… Nice tollbelt fuill of stuff, and now wait what happens if someone attacks, willl it be the dagger or the torch?

get a huge number of blade shards and the recipe parts (1 to 4). then see guide…

why does it always have top be pm and am, after 40 yrs on this planet it keeps confusing me…Why can’t people just use 24:00 instead of 12:00 xm it would be so much more comprehensible.

Lol

My dungeon party build would be:
-Pug carrier warrior (4/4/6/0/0), carrying 2 banners, FGJ and signet of rage, empower allies and banner recharge, can give 25 stacks of might during fights providing he has 2 foes at start, or when battle lasts a bit longer then 5 seconds. Total buff 1195 power after nerf 1070. Fixed on GS though.
- 2 DPS guards, (2(4)/5/0/1+?/1+?)for walls, stability, aegis, protection and DPS
- 1 DPS Elementalist(6/2/2/2/2) for prestacking might, speed stacking, healing and so on, oh and DPS
- 1 Other for “utility”, be it thief, mesmer or engineer, ranger or necro.
ranger could help adding 20 stacks of vulnerability in the first 3 seconds of play and spotter or necro, providing protection through wells and blindness., thief for single target DPS, and invisibiity, mesmer for utility (and maybe some DPS) or engineer, for being everything at once.

All prefferably with dungeon gear, dungeon utility , and food.
Dreams…..

I have 3 warriors, 2 guards, 2 eles, 3 necro;s, 3 rangers and a mesmer and a thief….
Of these 8 run dungeons regularly,including 2 hybrids, the rest: some if not most are pure condi and thus they serve no purpose in dungeons (yet).

My builds

1 war & 1 ele runs dungeon speedrun setup, 1 guard runs dps, 1 ranger is dps, 1 necro dps, 1 thief non-meta dps. All others use bulds I like. My mesmer doesn’t have DPS gear, I have it on a torment/confusion build, has been so for last 2 years, never letting down: also got world completion with this full condi mesmer. But it doesn’t run dungeons. Never.

Personally I detest people kicking people and saying well I play how I want, It’s the most selfish reason to do something ina social game I ever saw.

If you run what you want, you could or should accept it if others run what they want within the context of your LFG and if it’s not your LFG deal with it or go find another group. GWET& GWEN is good , but warriors, if 2, are a loss of dps. Guards are better, giving protection, aegis and blinds, and combined with well of blindness (N) and sandstorm(E), you can kill most bosses without ever getting hit by a boss. It will take you 1-2 secs longer but it will be safe, with stability if needed….. And I’ll run a party with 5 DPS rangers as well.. or 4 rangers and 1 engineer for that matter.

L80 EXP DPS will outperform l80 Zerk Meta. Maybe not in absolute speed , but it will in the relaxedness of playing and the enormous support offered by people who know their proffessions, I run both but the first is actually nicer… If people run experienced and get 1070 power buff most parties get sped up instantly. losing little time over pure zerk. Most zerks don’t seem to stack might, don’t consider buffs and thus fail if something happens not according to plan. not to mention dungeon gear and food -.-

- EOTM (karma/XP) train (WvW),
- actually doing story, hearts and map,
- dungeons (also story)
- just running area’s which also gives xp (cough, speed boosts and such, hmm)
- crafting (7-8 lvls gained when @ level 400) , expensive though,
- having tomes of knowledge (1 level each) or birthday scrolls (1st 20 levels)

In all cases you should be using as much from the following list as possible
- using food (candy corn ice cream? = + 15% , all others + 10% ) 30m/1hr
- using utility (any, + 10%, sharpening stones, maintenance oils or tuning crystals)
- using (guild) banners (+ 5, 10, 15% ), ask guild officer or make own guild and upgrade it till you can use it, lucky drop at guild missions, heroes banner or try LA, often found at the mystic toilet or EotM starting area’s
– using guild bonus ( + 10 % ) , should be up at guild at all times, need to be member
- (improved) xp boosters ( + 100 % )+ 50%, (dunno if improved still exists)
- laureate xp boosters ( +30%), (1 laurel) 1 hr?
- celebration boosters or birthday boosters (mutually exclusive but stack duration +100%)….. either from dailies (1hr) or when char is 1 yr old (24hr)

Good luck

Oh if you are starting from scratch, forget about crafting, go EOTM, level, use cash from wvw level gain to buy armor at level 80… leave EotM at lvl 30-35 for dungeon run at AC, at lvl 40-45 for CM, 50-55 for TA, skip all others. Cof is nice for last 5 levels, but not neccesary. You’ll styart story later with a level 80 and it will be boring

elementals with elementalist? long CD but powerfull, and in dire nee there’s still eleemtal powder for all… or pet whistles

and condition spamming clones can be fairly viable. specially with PU rabid

cotton, linen, wool.

I mine every ore node I pass when just walking somewhere. and trees get chopped, but it is really annoying I cannot find corpses or scarecrows to loot cloth scraps from.

reflections on terrain and sky makes a lot of difference. I do not see any real advantage in changing any of the other settings though…
running ultra and supersample.

Tom Gore.4035:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

… a lot of misinformation …

Sorry but your computer doesn’t wait for the server while it draws the frames, so the bandwidth is irrelevant when talking about FPS.

Now lag is a whole different thing (and I know a lot of people talk about lag when they get low FPS, which has nothing to do with it). Lag can cause warping (other players’ characters jumping around your screen) A.K.A. rubberbanding and delay in both your skills executing after they keypress, and them registering on the enemy (and you getting the feedback in the form of damage readings) signs of an overflooded server either calculations wise or in communication. You may have noticed that all skills that deal damage have a casting time. This is there because not just balance reasons, but the fact that in order for your computer to show the damage appearing on the enemy at the time your attack “finishes”, it must have first sent the “I’m going to attack this guy” information to the server and get feedback from the server “ok you hit the guy and did this much damage” before the attack is finished.

There is nothing much you can do to improve lag once you’ve got a decent connection. I’ve not monitored how much data your client receives in a big WvW combat, but I would believe it’s pretty manageable by any modern broadband connection. The problem comes when the server has to process all that information coming from 100 players and also outgoing to 100 players. I’ve also understood that one of the main reasons for server side lag (causing the infamous skill lag) for GW2 is that every condition stack on every creature is tracked individually, with a timer for each. That’s not a small amount of extra data to be sent across all the clients when there is a 50 vs 50 vs 50 fight happening on a small area. Well actually we are thinking the same, you focussing on server flooding, I mostly on the fact it needs to be sending this data as well. I beleive I posted 1 remark about the amount of calculations

Now about the FPS, there is a lot to do to improve it. Both yourself by upgrading your PC, and by Anet to optimize the client software. Server software, I say again, has zero impact on your FPS. Zero. Now, MMO clients are notoriously difficult to optimize due to the fact that practically every character model is different in both meshing and textures. This puts a tremendous load on your GPU. On top of that in WvW there also is a problem on the CPU which I guess is busy doing client-side movement prediction on all the player characters. Movement prediction is an algorithm (or a series of them) that tries to “guess” where the other player character models are going while the client is waiting for the server to send an updated position and speed vectors for that character.

Hope this clarifies some misconceptions about lag and FPS drops, and gives you and idea what you can and cannot do to improve them.

I run a hex-core i7 @3.8 Ghz, 32 Gb Ram, 2 GTX 780’s in SLi both on a PCI-e16x on 3.0 supported by both hard and software, 2 screens 1 being 1920*1200 other just 1920*1080. The computer has no problems running Gw2 and running a 1080p Mkv movie on the second screen, I do not get real fps drops, neither does other multitasking. My sli set calculates ahead, so short prediction, and it’ll make my pc drop most frames anyways.. Software and windows setup have been streamlined. No AV, regular scans for virus and spyware, initiated manually, cleaned registry. My memory is reasonably fast, and even though I’m on a X79 based system which is not extremely modern it should be fast enough.

If i need to upgrade?…

I expect most information to contain a string about the armor/weapons, a location, skill(s) used (you’ll need to see telegraphs), damage, type of conditions on character,
health. I doubt there is much more, but if you see 100 ppl you’ll need this string 100 times. If you’d only get this info every .1 sec you only see 10 different frames/ second no matter if your pc can calculate 100. Certainly in wvw your gpu making assumptions would be a big problem… cause you’d be targetting things which could be somewhere else that is why rubberbvanding exists, maybe autotarget could manage, and maybe you’d try to predict routes, but it would be difficult…

Also I really am wondering why server side calculations would be a problem: gigantic servers are not extremely expensive anymore… most costs of server is upkeep in power, cooling and bandwith, not purchase of the original server

In my experience the game functions perfect, the system runs 170-180 fps, but if i start top meet ppl FPS drops like a brick… I tried it with other people, FPS drops more with people playing wireless, but not as much with slower PC’s and wired connections. Giving me the impression the game IS waiting…

Biggest problem is the dependancy on network travel & latency. my pc runs at 30-40% CPU and 60-70% GPU on ultra, and can reach 100-180 FPS, but at large scale engagemnents (zerg vs zerg( vs zerg) orworld bosses it dropt to 12-20 FPS and lower GPU and CPU usage, mostly due to not enough data reaching my pc. (90 Mbitps down / 9 up) wired on Gbit LAN, and lag and latency problems even though ping is generally good.

This game is bottlenecked by the amount of other players and or their (wireless) LAN latency and corresponding lag… problem is the game cause it needs to send inormation about the distribution of damage, conditions and HP for all players & foes. for 100+ players on an event this could cause quite a bad package trafic jam…. bad sends and required retransmits will cause lag and rubberbanding….

the actual engine of the game allows me to play up to 180 FPS,with extremes to 220 FPS, showing the engine isn’t that bad. it is the amount of data stacking up cumulatively
1 player needs 1 communication packet sent with his conditions
2 players needs 2 communications send with the conditions, actions locations of 2 players and all affected foes
3 players needs 3 communications send with the conditions, actions locations of 3 players and all affected foes
100 players need 100 communications send with all conditions, actions locations of 100 players and all affected foes.

Showing bandwith will increase fast with player amounts. especially when all are in the same area and sharing FOV

I expect they started development the moment the main bugs were fixed after release or even before (as there are clearly doors to other areas) givng them 800 days… not a year.

We’ll see. I just hope to be blown away by the overwhelming greatness of said, expansion, either paid or just added on…. I hope to see something mindblowing…..

Improvements would be nice, though direct x 12 isn’t supported yet by 95%-97% of the hrdware of existing pc’s…. requiring legacy support.

If you’re improving I think 11 would be the first station…. but while 11 isn’t supported fully by the player base’s hardware it’d be a better choice. a lot more people would benefit fro native support…. though increased and improved functions would be greatly appreciated….and even the planning of further migration would be. until games release the need and/or wishfor a huge backward capability these things will remain, I’d appreciate directx 11 support next to 9 so we would get the best possible solution.. Adding 12 in a year or so would make this game ready for a next generation…

^ The game outside the game, so you also mean theory crafting?

In that case ALL the results of the theory craft are meta…. And I do not consider the meta being 1 build but the selection of the most usefull builds ingame, either for PvE, (world bosses), dungeons, WvW or PvP

Generally builds are made on a playstyle, another concept.
Generally builds include a dps chain… A build isn’t complete without this
Generally builds include traits. A build isn’t complete without this
Generally builds include skills armor and so on. Zerk can be a second choice after another form, (2 or 3 valkyrie pieces with thief, (partial) celestial ele)
Together they form a concept, it is -a- meta , the most accepted version is called -the- meta ingame…

Concept: “Meta” is the most optimized build for for your setup with your playstyle.
Concept: “Zerk” means: “PvE/dungeons users should be wearing zerk armor” It’s debatable though: While intended to force meta build it sometimes fails, in some cases, to create a sustainable maximum dps due to extremely squishy combinations. 3 ele 1 thief 1 guard being a nice example, certainly with all max dps builds…
Keeping these concepts or letting them go really matters, but it is not the only assumption in this game, and the application isn’t strict as either.
Meta is stretchable and moldable, If one cannot adapt it isn’t Meta.

Zerk, Zerk Meta and Meta are 3 different things already as they all have different concepts and scopes. People do not assume this nor think about it.

I assume the proffesion bound concept can be called -Meta-:
0 Warrior the 2nd concept seems to be might stacking through GS and vulnerability (A/M). With or without Phalanx, leaving the 6/5/0/0/3 and the 4/4/0/6/0 for dungeons and PvE.

0 Guardian concept seems about condition utilisation and % stack, so 2(4)/5/0/1+?/1+? how you want to fill in the last 3/5 points is your problem, as it is part of the utility for your guard. But those 3/5 points do make your concept withing the meta…

0 Elementalist concept seems locked into fire field might and fury stacking. 6/2/0/2/4 or variants. making sure you can stack both might and fury. Support (0/2/0/4/4) is mostly dead, according to people, but 6/0/0/4/4 seems to appear now and then. Running celestial instead of zerk is a (meta) concept as well. (partly or full)

0 Ranger concept has LB&GS and LB&S+? builds. mostly leading 6/4(5)/0/4(3)/0
personally I do not consider GS/S&? meta, but it’s also personal. I prefer stacking 20 vulnerability for the 1st 10 seconds… It’s my concept.

0 Necro concept for power seems to be wells/ vampiric, leaving builds mostly focused on vampiric traits and wells 6/2/0/6/0 or variants

Well I play only torment & confusion (interrupt) condi mesmer (Sc+T, Sc+P(or Staff) PU) which seems to be meta, though not accepted in pvE
Also in PvE, as I use my mesmer most for JP’s and Guild missions, and the few times it is in WvW I’m usually trying to get portals working, for roaming groups. I do not care for the shatter and phantasm builds which are “true” meta. (6/2/0/0/6) or (6/4/0/4/0) (from head)

I also play “non-meta/ my-meta” on thief (S+P/P+P) so I do not know the meta builds for D/D.
Thief concepts used to revolve around dagger/stealth/venom 6/2/6/0/0 or 6/2/0/0/6?
Tough I love 1/4/0/3/6 which is a stealing build for conditions or 0/6/0/3/5 which is a basic P/P unload build or 3/6/0/0/5 which is a little more potent variant of the last….
Given the fact Meta means the worked out version, You could say my S+P &P/P are meta as well. Only not in the context used in this game.

Then you have Meta WvW, and Meta PvP

Meta concept WvW seems to be about cooperation. But IMHO that’s a station passed by now. My concept lies different: 50% of the zerg should be support, 50% should be full offense. This will make sure you do have the buffs and you do have powerrrrr…. This also widens the meta for WvW with both Support builds and Power builds.. But it’s my meta, not the games meta.

And I always felt meta means “in between build”, " “next build” or “temporary build” showing it’s the temporary best option… So -a- but also -the- meta is always evolving to the next build. new armor types could brak the present meta, new foods, new traits… and so on.

and I do not play engi,

Well I’m just a simple person. I play PvE and WvW. I do see 1 thing, which was the wish for arenanet to keep all skills and traits working the same in all modes of play.

Which has caused way too many problems already.

All conditions in PvE have been nerfed, nobody cared about conditions too much, but after the nerf they were destroyed. Only place where you’d run condition on a character was WvW, where peole complained and complained while in a zerg you’d never get conditions anyways.

Confusion was nerfed to seconds in PvE allowing no hit scenario’s against most dungeon bosses, wvw bosses, veterans and normal spawns tyhroghout PvE, after a year, this is reversed, with 33% more damage and a return of original durations, or at least longer durations. now allowing for 2 hits if you time well..

But PvP and other PvP like structures need to be fair… people say… Some people actually said well conditions are Op, cause when I bring 1 or no condi removal I’ll die…
This was the actual reason to do so…

Might is just te next step. I already posted somewhere might nerfs actually hit the builds with lower power and condition duration, so It will hit celestial harder. and all builds with powerand/or codnition damage as a minor stat.
This sounds nice and balancing, but builds with power and condition damage on a major stat will be buffed, relatively that is.

Celestial isn’t all powerful, it’s versatile. You choose to be a jack of all trades, master of none, and really it is not that powerfull, but this is compensated by being everything at the same time. They should bring back the double pvp amulet allowing a base stat and a jewel based stat. just to make other builds more versatile.

I do not mind being lvl 80. It’s enough anyways. they used to have a perfectly scaling levelling curve. It was a great concept, and A-Net destoyed their own perfection…

I hope to be ablte to open up more traits,
I DO NOT HOPE for more levels to appear… EVER
I hope for legendary armor and trinkets to arrive
I DO NOT HOPE for any tiers above ascended (given the fact legendaries have ascended stats)
I do hope for more proffessions, and races, armors and weapons.
I DO NOT HOPE for unneccesary grinds for gear…
I do hope for a reason why we need ascended gear in this game, though it should not be game breaking…. (I do not mind seeing agony at a (dungeon)boss or certain critters in an expansion, as long as you can finish the content without AR (alternate path or route))
I hope to keep my 15 characters usefull for a long time to come. We’ll see.

Severino.3604:

Azrael.4960:

Back to WoW you go!

Hahahahaaaaaaaaano.

Played WoW about 7 years ago. If it had better graphics and wasn’t like playing in a Disney theme park I WOULD “go back” to it.

I don’t get the whole “if they add new content imma stop playing y’all”. If you don’t want to grind the new gear, then don’t. Just sit back and wallow in your own crapulence at already having full ascended on all ALTs, five legendaries, thousands of gold. Just sit back and smirk knowingly that you’re better than everyone because you played from the start and won’t have to do anything further to stay at the top. I personally like change, and if I ever got to that situation I’d consider the game beat and stop playing. I think its better to have the option and choose not to do it than not have the option at all.

I do not see a gear grind being content. It is just a grind. content means you are playing the game, not farming like a mindless well…person.

I do not mind ascended armor, I do not mind a way to get more trait points, I do mind this game changing and adding a vertical progression. It would devaluate the present form. I’m all for more armor skins, new characters, more classes, new proffecsions and all, but I would loathe a gear grind.

I would love legendary armor. I can see me working towards it. The fact is legendary armor would fill a gap, getting lvl 90 or 100 DOESN’T, it just creates gaps. I could get a legendary armor on 1 of my characters, and work towards ascenced on all14 alts.

Generally
*2nd armor set,
*additional weapons soulbound to character,
*2nd set of jewels,
*dungeon food,
*utility food, food,
*my salvage o matic(s),
*mystic salvage kit.
*1 or 2 fun items (be it a kite, balloon, instrument whatever. depending on the character)

Sometimes
*wvw siege ( run often as 2nd or 3rd in command, always carry emergency suply, wouldn’t be the first time commander needs X and doens’t have it.
*revive orbs/repair cannisters, when doing hard conetent can take some of the 60-70 in my bank….

Thing I do not carry
*MF Food / boosters, it is in my bank; If I want to farm I’ll take the stacks and all
*Other boosters, there really really needs to be a reason why I’d take one. I still have 20-40 boosters of most kinds lying aaround.
*Other utility foods (primers, and so on.)
*ascended rings/trinkets not fitting on 1st or second armor
*3rd armor, If I notice I have 3 armors I check why, and delete/salvage the one least usefull.
*3rd jewelry, If I notice I have 3 sets of jewelry I check why, and salvage/store in bank

I do have 146 slots on most (14/15) characters, some 148 or 150. Generally lowest 2 bags contain character gear in invisible bags. so 36 slots worth of food, utlity, siege and so on. leaving me ~110 slots, Salvage O matic and 1-2 mystic forge salvage kits are the 1st 2 things in my backpack.

Regarding PvE:
IMHO bow is more a condition/ hybrid weapon then it is aDPS weapon.

Rifle will function quite nicely for ranged builds and it only needs 1 trait in the precision line. Not 2 in vitality line where you’d be able to get some nice AOE buffs. (when running bow on my hybrid I do not spec for bow, as it is used mainly for fire&blast and pin down in a hybrid build, skill 1 is quite underwhelming…
The whole defence line is well really not that good in PvE, you’ll only have use for armored attack and most other traits are way to defensive
If you will be at range all the time i’d go scholar for rune
If fighting partly melee “rune of the pack” could be helping your team with an occassional buff next to your FGJ.
I do not understand why you’d need to spec in armor to stay alive at range.

I do agree with this build being usefull in WVW though, but it would be a fringe build
I think your zerg would have more use for you in the front line with hammer or mace..
When close or in the zerrg your damage is less important then staying alive. going 5 points deep for a 10% dmg is well… not too wise.

Generally my warriors run in WvW:
- Rabid /Rampager/Sinister (0/5/5/4/0) SS & LB (roaming) Hybrid
- Cavalier/zerk/Zerk (2/6/6/0/0) Hmr/AM (zerg melee) or Hammer M/M
- PVT/zerk/Zealot (0/3/5/6/0) Hmr/Rifle (zerg, (melee) support) shout heal build
- armor/weapon/trinkets (build) weapons (function) general discription

My warrior…at least 1 of them.

shoulders: karma armor
chest: carapace armor
trousers: primevil
shoes: gloves barbaric
Back: zephyrites backpack
head: wreath of cooperation

colors: midnight ice, enameled crimson, enameled emblaze, glint’s isolation, algae

swords: 2 firebringers

Harper.4173:

I know they do not benefit more – you didn’t get the point of my post.

I made that part up – just like you did when you said might was designed so that groups that weren’t going full power would be advantaged.

You have no idea what the developers intended – and they never actually said anything about boons being intended to do this or that.

So all we can do is speculate.
I wanted to show you that just like you can make a statement up because you can so can I. So i made that statement up.

I understand your math is sound – I was simply pointing out how easy it is to pull facts out of thin air – like you yourself like to do.

Base dmg formula

skill dmg = base dmg + ((skill multiplier*power*weapon dmg)/armor)

1000 power: 100 + (.5*1000*1000)/1000 = 600
1875 power: 100 + (.5*1875*1000)/1000 = 1037

2000 power: 100 + (.5*2000*1000)/1000 =1100
2875 power: 100 + (.5*2875*1000)/1000 = 1537

3000 power: 100 + (.5*3000*1000)/1000 =1600
3875 power: 100 + (.5*3875*1000)/1000 = 2037

In this case though all buffs make the damage scale 437 points
the percentile increase due to might on the base damage is quite different

1000 power 1037/600 * 100 =172.8% raise of dmg by might
2000 power1537/1100 * 100 =139.7% raise of dmg by might
3000 power 2037/1600 * 100 = 127.2% raise of dmg by might

Showing might is more beneficial for low power builds. (though this is a somewhat extreme example.) (Pls check and see a few posts back.)

So I didn’t grab it out of thin air I guess… I do not make things up.

Might was meant to add power to lower power builds, It is where it’s more effective.

Like a sigil of night will outscale a sigil of bloodlust on a high power character. and a sigil of bloodlust will be more superior on a low power character… same reason…

With a low power character the 250 power will be more effective then +10% of the damage
With a high power character the 250 power will be less effective then + 10% of the damage
(generally bloodlust will be not the most ideal thing , but generally low power builds will carry defensive stats, so they can take some punishment and keep the stacks..)

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Not only stacking sigils do not proc, al;so a lot of traits on death and food.

Living story p2: no XP & triggers on deaths

All kills made in the living story do NOT give XP, resulting in a lot of problems
Following normal game this causes a few things to not work as intended:

- Stacking sigils do NOT fuction
no count. so all builds which depend on some specific stacking stat.
So you’d better buy fixed sigils instead of stacking ones…

do “not use” (=> alternative)
no bloodlust (11 gold)=> force (6 gold),
no corruption (2 gold) => bursting, (15 gold)
no perception (1 gold) => accuracy, (1.6 gold)
no momentum. (6.5 gold)
no life, (12 s)
no benevolence (2.5s)

- loot drops, No XP = No drops. (= least of the problems, but lame nevertheless)

- Vengeance on Warrior will NEVER TRIGGER and res you as you havent killed an NPC but a critter with much HP.
This will require you to be ressed by the NPC’s if available… also goes for the mesmer skill…

- Food doesn’t trigger on death , neither do Traits, and neither do Sigils
so do not use:
Bowl of Ettin Stew
Bowl of Garlic Spinach Sautee
Bowl of Sauteed Zucchini with Nutmeg
Handful of Trail Mix
Bowl of Cauliflower Sautee
Bowl of Eggplant Sautee
Bowl of Truffle Sautee
Bowl of Simple Stirfry
Bowl of Avocado Stirfry
Bowl of Eggplant Stirfry
Bowl of Lotus Stirfry
Glass of Melon Juice
Bowl of Blueberry Apple Compote
Bowl of Strawberry Apple Compote
Bowl of Cherry Vanilla Compote
Bowl of Blackberry Pear Compote
Raspberry Peach Compote
Omnomberry Compote
Bowl of Simple Salad
Bowl of Ascalonian Salad
Bowl of Coleslaw
Bowl of Cabbage and Chickpea Salad
Bowl of Asparagus and Sage Salad
Bowl of Seaweed Salad
Experimental Remnant
Marinated Mushroom
Sage Stuffed Mushroom
Triktiki Omelet
Divinity Stuffed Mushroom
Bowl of Tasty Wurm Stew
Eztlitl Stuffed Mushroom
Stuffed Mushroom
Saffron Stuffed Mushroom
Moa Haunch
Spicy Meat Kabob
Pepper Steak Dinner
Sesame Roasted Dinner
Plate of Coriander Crusted Meat Dinner
Plate of Steak and Asparagus Dinner
Dragon’s Breath Bun
Plate of Truffle Steak Dinner
Carrot Soufflé

Nor use the following sigils:
Sigils of Speed (speed on Kill),
Sigils of Stamina (Endurance on Kill),
Sigils of Restoration (Health on Kill) or
Sigils of Luck (Boon on Kill…))*

Well I run 6(VI ,VII,XI)/2(VI)/2(VI)/2(VI)/2(V) with staff in dungeons..
+10% on burning foes (Burning Rage)
+10% from an elemental attunement (Internal Fire)
+20% when the target is under 33% health (Bolt to the Heart)
+10% from being within 600 range (Stone Splinters)
+10% when above 90% Hitpoints (Superior Rune of the Scholar)
+10% when above 90% Hitpoints (vital Striking)
Dungeon weapons:
+10% from Sigil of the Night (AC, CoF, SE, CoE, TA)
+10% Sigil of X-slaying (Or Force for a +5%)m
Food:
+10% dmg vs X /-10% dmg recieved from X

For Pve general I use Sigils: Fire and Bloodlust (fire is really annoying in AC..)
(which are a long standing combo, though not the most effective )
Full zerk.

Not these however
+5% against bleeding foes (Serrated Stones)
+5% Superior Sigil of Force
+10% when endurance is full (Enduring Damage)

Whatever stack stacks multiplicative… If you calculate you know why zerk ele can make so many AOE’s so fast for so much dmg . so about 2.14* the damage while in fire, while burning , with enemy life above 33%, 2.57 in fire, while burning below when below….

Harper.4173:

I can do it too:

Might was designed so higher power builds benefit more and lower power builds benefit less and the current implementation is buggy. Right off the top of my head.

Higher power builds do NOT benefit more. They can raise the cap the same amount for low power and high power, but the effects fore a high power build are lower due to the fact the amount of difference it makes is lower

Base dmg formula

skill dmg = base dmg + ((skill multiplier*power*weapon dmg)/armor)

1000 power: 100 + (.5*1000*1000)/1000 = 600
1875 power: 100 + (.5*1875*1000)/1000 = 1037

2000 power: 100 + (.5*2000*1000)/1000 =1100
2875 power: 100 + (.5*2875*1000)/1000 = 1537

3000 power: 100 + (.5*3000*1000)/1000 =1600
3875 power: 100 + (.5*3875*1000)/1000 = 2037

In this case though all buffs make the damage scale 437 points
the percentile increase due to might on the base damage is quite different

1000 power 1037/600 * 100 =172.8% raise of dmg by might
2000 power1537/1100 * 100 =139.7% raise of dmg by might
3000 power 2037/1600 * 100 = 127.2% raise of dmg by might

Showing might is more beneficial for low power builds. (though this is a somewhat extreme example.)

now lets see what happens if we nerf might

1000 power: 100 + (.5*1000*1000)/1000 = 600
1875 power: 100 + (.5*1875*1000)/1000 = 975

2000 power: 100 + (.5*2000*1000)/1000 =1100
2750 power: 100 + (.5*2750*1000)/1000 = 1475

3000 power: 100 + (.5*3000*1000)/1000 =1600
3750 power: 100 + (.5*3750*1000)/1000 = 1975

In this case though all buffs make the damage scale 375 points
the percentile increase due to might on the base damage is quite different

1000 power 975/600 * 100 =162.5% raise of dmg by might
2000 power1475/1100 * 100 =134.1% raise of dmg by might
3000 power 1975/1600 * 100 = 123.5% raise of dmg by might

1000 power old 1037/600 * 100 =172.8% raise of dmg by might
1000 power new 975/600 * 100 =162.5% raise of dmg by might
difference: 10.3% effect due to nerf

2000 power old 1537/1100 * 100 =139.7% raise of dmg by might
2000 power new 1475/1100 * 100 =134.1% raise of dmg by might
difference: 5.6% effect due to nerf

3000 power old: 2037/1600 * 100 = 127.2% raise of dmg by might
3000 power new : 1975/1600 * 100 = 123.5% raise of dmg by might
difference: 3.7% effect due to nerf

Of course this will vary a bit due to skill base and skill coefficents, but the trend should be clear.

Thank you for bringing the topic back on track.

Whatever your party setup is doesn’t really matter to me. The fact 2 warriors is too much isn’t a problem in this thread, As we are only talking about might and the effects of reducing might from 35 points to 30 points a stack.

Even though the effects are relatively minor compared to the change from critical damage to ferocity (well in effect it was a 15% nerf in most cases) there is an effect nevertheless.

PROBLEM WITH THIS CHANGE IS THE FOLLOWING FACT:
BUILDS WITH A LOWER BASE POWER OR CONDITION DAMAGE WILL BE HIT HARDER COMPARED TO HIGH POWER/HIGH CONDITION BUILDS.

Might was intended to raise power and condition damage for builds which were less powerfull. In fact Might does add the same power for low and high power/condition damage builds, BUT percentage wise a low power/condition build will benefit more.
and thus will be hit harder.

Harper.4173:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Harper.4173:

My thoughts? Because builds that use power and condition as a minor stat get another benefit. Please tell me more about the benefits for rampager…

Using Knight’s? You’ve got a lot of toughness – so the trade-off between a zerker and knight’s wearer will be bigger. There was already a big difference, this will only get out of proportion

You’ll get EVEN less damage for the added defense. Just remember though damage scales with power, precision, ferocity, traits, sigils, food and utilities up to 4 times, while armor scales to a maximum of 1.2 times. Speccing in armor is an illusion, at least in PvE.

Yes – it forces people to optimize even further. Those who want to and feel like it will. Those who don’t won’t.

I’ll correct ^

That’s a big comfort for ascended knights, clerics, rampager, sentinel running people, who are shown again and again: in the end the zerk meta will again reign triomfantly, showing again A-Net should just remove everything not being zerk -meta- in the first place…

Rampager gets more precision. More crits – more procs for on-crit effects.

They’re making the gap between specs that choose power as their main and specs that use something else bigger.
The trade-off is now more of a thing. I don’t know how else to explain this.

The “out of proportion” you mention is just your opinion. I don’t feel it would be out of proportion and a lot of others agree.

Speccing in armor in a game that wants you to avoid, block, dodge and position yourself in order to not eat damage is at most a crutch.
Speccing for armor was never designed to be viable in GW2’s PVE because the whole concept of the game revolves around organic combat where you move and avoid and time your defenses instead of standing still – being hit – and just not caring.

Armor in this game is designed to give you more wiggle room – to be able to eat 2-3-4 extra hits instead of dying on the first.
This is done to compensate for not all players having the same skill level, physical capacity or reflexes.

Well IMHO precision doesn’t change in this instance due to might balancing,
The effects on armor are there due to less damage in the damage calculation formula. It will be buffed even a bit further due to the fact condition dmg gets a small nerf, and as condi dmg is fullly armor ignoring this will aid generally everybody in a defensive sense.

Harper.4173:

My thoughts? Because builds that use power and condition as a minor stat get another benefit. Please tell me more about the benefits for rampager…

Using Knight’s? You’ve got a lot of toughness – so the trade-off between a zerker and knight’s wearer will be bigger. There was already a big difference, this will only get out of proportion

You’ll get EVEN less damage for the added defense. Just remember though damage scales with power, precision, ferocity, traits, sigils, food and utilities up to 4 times, while armor scales to a maximum of 1.2 times. Speccing in armor is an illusion, at least in PvE.
On the positive, lesser damage will make toughness a bit more important, but mostly in people’s head

Yes – it forces people to optimize even further. Those who want to and feel like it will. Those who don’t won’t.

I’ll correct ^

That’s a big comfort for ascended knights, clerics, rampager, sentinel running people, who are shown again and again: in the end the zerk meta will again reign triomfantly, showing again A-Net should just remove everything not being zerk -meta- in the first place…

Harper.4173:

This happened before – they’re not going to compensate for it.

Hybrid builds were hit the hardest when the Ferocity changes came. Their overall goal seems to be making it harder and harder to kill things fast across the board.

*But why make it harder for builds using power and/or condition as a MINOR stat, and not nearly as much for builds who use pwr/cnd dmg as a Major stat???

You will not change much for optimized DPS/Condition builds???
Only for support and tanky builds it will be a big(ger) nerf… Focussing everybody to use extreme DPS (and(/or) DOT) builds….

Well I understand the 875 power and condition are a bit much.
When Might has been stacked once the proposed might nerf comes in some changes will occur in DPS and condition damage I’ll try to list and show it.

But when reviewing this I noticed a few things:

Might is being stacked more efficiently nowadays, Phalanx strength being one of the things and efficient use of fire and blast combo’s have rendered the 0 might dungeon party all but extinct. In effect raising the damage a bit.

The extreme focus on zerker gear makes this happen. This change further enhances the use of zerker armor to maintain DPS… I am not against the zerker meta, but I do find this a shame in view of other stats.

Now for a few concrete questions AFTER these examples:

Might affects both power and condition damage. While some people are ranting this is a 15% nerf, well it is a below 6% nerf in power cases, low power and or conditions will however be hit worse. ( as are ranger pets) In fact all stats combos using power or condition damage as major stat will be hit relatively light. All combo’s using power and condition as MINOR stat will be hit worse.

Some examples, traits are used, but not food, actual use of food and utilities will further decrease the loss of the -buffed- stat with respect to might

Exotic ranger (sinister 0/6/4/0/4) focus on condi runes (trapper sb/ a&t):
1600 power + 875 = 2475 will be 1600 + 750 = 2350 power= 5 % reduction
1430 condi + 875 = 2305 wil be 1430 + 750 = 2180 condition= 5.5% reduction
Pet of ranger (example: reef drake) (traited for 350 condition dmg in combat)
1918 power + 875 = 2793 will be 1918 + 750= 2668 power = 4.5% reduction
350 condi + 875 =1225 will be 350 + 750 =1100 condition dmg = 10.3% reduction

Pug carrier zerk (4/4/0/6/0) mark up includes empower allies and banner(, no food/utilities)
2479 power + 1195 = 3674 will be 2479 + 1070 = 3549 power = 3.5% nerf
(200 condi + 1045 = 1245 will be 200 + 920 =1120 condition = 10% nerf)

Condi mesmer (0/5/5/0/4) (while it cannot stack it’s own might it’s just for comparison
1843 condi + 875 = 2718 will be 1843 + 750 = 2593 = 4.6% nerf
(926 power + 875 = 1801 will be 926 + 750 = 1676 = 7% nerf)

Warrior S/S sinister Hybrid (2/6/0/4/2) mark up includes empower allies and banner(, no food/utilities)
2047 power + 1195 = 3242 will be 2047 + 1070 = 3127 power = 3.6% nerf
(1312 condi + 1045 =2357 will be 1312 + 920 =2232 condition = 5.4% nerf)

Showing POWER builds when having power as main stat Zerk/Soldiers wil be less affected by this nerf then other builds (with power and condition damage as minor stats or using both ), while condition damage will be nerfed more percentage wise as their base stats -even as major stat- due to scaling from 0

The mesmer I showed has a quite high (wel could have been higher if I’d taken runes of the undead) condition damage which is higher then most condition builds WILL run! Making the effect on conditions due to the might nerf more extreme in many or all cases comparted to the example listed above.

The lower the actual damage base stat was the higher this nerf will be, forcing people to go ZERK
The hybrid ranger with pet will be doubly hit as it also depends on condition damage from itself and it’s Pet and both have been reduced by up to 10%

Actual questions

Low power (knights, clerics,rampager) builds and low condition (Rampager again?) build will be hit harder by this change then high power (full zerk or soldier ) or high condition (sinister/rabid/dire) builds are? Now seeing this reduction is 3% for high end power but 5+% for lower power builds AND 5% condition damage for hign condition builds and up to 8% for low condtion builds. Isn’t it wise to reconsider the nerf to might ?

How are you going to compensate for the bigger the average reduction In condition dmg, as condition dmg will be hit harder then power?? Especially in PvE? Even though some conditions are buffed a bit?

Will you improve base condition damage (or at least the trait?) for pets?
Condition using builds which are dependant on might would be very thankfull, also seeing pets hit about as much as enemies in PvE, so not very often… and the pet traits are weak as is.

Will conditions scaling formula’s be improved for use in PvE? IF so this would compensate for both the additional reduction and it would allow for more use of conditions in PvE.

The example of confusion being buffed is a great start to be honest.

Might might get a 15% nerf, yes

But actual power for a pug carried party drops about 3.5-5% …. the fact is this is but an illusion. It will add 3-5 seconds to some bosses, MAYBE.

I’d suggest you all just make sure you buy another exotic zerk weapon and add a sigil of night and force , or make some dedicated weapons, and buy some powerfullpotions of X-slaying, you will add quite some damage.
If we’d all do so we’d as party still gain 10-15 % dmg. With a minor investment, as most speedrunners still refuse to bring food and utility.
For speedrunners, not taking dedicated food should be a reason to kick from party the fact people refuse to mitigate all incoming dmg by 10% and buff outgoing by 10% for a few silvers is stupid and a good reason to kick, especially in full runs. The food has been corrected and so there are no reasons anymore NOT to use it.

This might business is important, buta lot of wannabee zerk runs refuse to stack might. Leaving this change for wannabee Zerkers sometimes completely unimportant and thus ignored…. just using the 7 stacks from GS, and FGJ.

I like seeing the reasons why,
I might agree for power, but do not for condition damage however, certainly not in PvE. Also for PvE the might change is unwanted and unneccessary IMHO. It will not slow the melee dungeon train: If the boss in ac dies in 5 seconds now or in 6 seconds then it doesn’t matter, It hurts people who are starting, not vets.

Thaddeus.4891:

GuzziHero.2467:

There is a soft trinity but its more like an octernary.

Guardian: healer
Warrior: flexibility
Thief: single-target damage
Engineer: AOE damage/support
Ranger: ranged weapons
Elementalist: DPS
Mesmer: distraction
Necro: conditions

My dream of dreams would be an 8 man dungeon where the party can only include one of each class.

Gonna fix it for you

Guardian: damage mitigation (healing really, please)
Warrior: damage buff
Thief: single-target damage + stealth
Engineer: Jack-of-all trades, master of none (except vulnerability)
Ranger: A warrior with less buff, but more dmg (certainly not range )
Elementalist: DPS
Mesmer: utilities
Necro : Whatever, who care in PvE (and that make me sad)

Only apply in PvE.

Gonna add for you

Guardian: damage mitigation (blinds/aegis/stability/condiremoval (purging flames) and DPS
Warrior: banners, might, speed through banner, and DPS, some vulnerability (150 power for party)
Thief: single-target damage + stealth
Engineer: Jack-of-all trades, master of none (except vulnerability)
Ranger: opening vulnerability (LB might not be a melee weapons, but rapid fire as opened does provide 20 vulnerability with opening strikes, spotter (150 precision for party) S/* or GS as clos combat. (free buff / condition of choice from pet.)
Elementalist: AOE DPS , Might, AOE heal, Conjured weapon, AOE blind
Mesmer: utilities (Portal? nah!, try Null field, Feedback and Timewarp, emergency SHORT invisibility)
Necro : AOE blind, boonstrip, some vulnerability (, transfusion)
(Zealot (Stf D/F) AoE wells & marks transfusion healer/ protector. 3/0/5/6/0 ?)

So in the end we wil get 750 Power and condition damage max at 25 stacks instead of 875. Well I figure: with empower allies and banner it is still 1070 power and 920 condition damage.

So I’ll go from 2750 (with food) +1195 (might and buffs)= 3945 with my pug carrier
to 3820… 3820/3945= 3.5% nerf on Zerk Pug Carrier Warrior.

I do not mind, It will reduce the zerker meta a bit, and as other builds have been buffed a bit It should work out alright.

A few question to devs though:
If you do this and you run a pet build with ranger, you’ll be nerfed doubly, as both the pet and the ranger will be hit by the loss of 125 power… How will you compensate this??

It is a bigger problem for Hybrid builds (power/condi) requiring might stacking and seeing might being reduced for both power and condition damage. How will you compensate for this?

Will you consider an upgrade to base damage AND/or damage scaling on “condition weapons” as well? Sword for warrior, scepter for necro, and mesmer, staff for mesmer SB and axe for ranger and conditin odffhands of course?

Again this might nerf is about power. But condition damage ALSO scales with might,. This will be nerfed as well. The effects of a potential nerf for condition damage would again lower the damage potential of a part of the meta already shunned by most of the people playing wvw and pve at the moment. how are you going to deal with this?

instead of having closest target on your tab get next target…you will at least be able to get others fast.

Not only stacking sigils do not proc, al;so a lot of traits on death and food.

Living story p2: no XP & triggers on deaths

Nash.2681:

First of all- thumps up for your effort. I brought that topic up the table about a year ago myself with some ideas for improving cond.dmg in PvE without touching PvP balance and I really do think that with the new sinister stat combo the discussion should live up again!
Since I still think my old suggestion (give PvE mobs a permanent “buff” like Defiance, making them more vulnerable to cond.dmg) would solve some of the current issues, I want to add something about the recent changes in PvE mob design and how it affects the cond.dmg issue:
Silverwaste brought up some new enemies with new abilities and behaviour, including the before mentioned Husks. The idea behind those Husks apparently was to give players with a cond.dmg build&equipment a task to shine at.
So I took my beloved Necromancer (yepp, I still consider him my main, though I rarely take him out into dungeons/fotm), traited him for cnd.dmg and put on my fancy cond.dmg gear (weapons scepter+dagger/ staff) and started hunting Husks. So, let’s see what happened:
- Husks went down really nice
- could survive quite well since most mobs are silver or below, making them susceptible to CC
- support other players dealing with big groups by picking out one target (preferably with some conditions on it already), ramping up some conditions and then spreading them with epidemic
But still I ran in the old “the more players, the more conditions, the less damage your conditions do”, often ending up having my bleeds tick for hilarious ~1k, when they could hit for 4k if only all my bleeds would be counted. Adding other conditions and the pitty direct dmg my dps was still laughable.
So I went to the changing room, re-speced to a direct dmg build (DS build, 62006), put my fancy zerker gear on and got back to the fighting. And what can I say? Everything died faster (and such being less a threat to our forts and caravans) than it did with my cond. dmg spec. Everything? Unfortunatly- yes, everything. Even the Husks. Pack some vuln on them and then crit the kitten out of them and they still die faster than they do from cnd. dmg.

So no matter if one (fully or partially) agrees with OP’s statement and suggestions or not- there is something dead wrong regarding cond.dmg in PvE and A.Net really should take care of it.

Well they tend to die fairly fast with fire, bleeds and torment. faster then with most GS slashers. And you can disengage ewhen there is only 40% life left as the condi’s will eat them allowing you to run to the next (unless there’s menders swarming around)

Exp: SS/LB Sinister warrior, (rampagers weapon/back) 2/6/0/4/2
(66% crit base, 86% with fury 96% on S/S, 96%/100% on burst. 1380 condi dmg, 2200 power, 50% conidtion duration from food (veggie piza and toxic sharp) with 25 might, empower allies and banner, 2400 condition damage, 3400 power) direct damage attacks S#3/#4, LB #3 to keep up might. (generally 2000+ condition dmg, 3000+ power from ~10-15 (max 21) selfstack)

Problem remains: if you have full buff and you are hitting a husk and 2 GS warriors come , your dmg is gone, no 5000 dmg /tick worth of conditions but 1500 maybe.
All lovely empty or low end conditions. Mostly ~600 condition damage. From 10 might from GS and FGJ, no duration as well, overwriting my 24 second bleeds with 2 or 3 second bleeds.

Also nice things are: people stealing my Strength banner… 0.0

Belinda’s GS was released in game fairly late, with LS pt 6 if I’m right. Just give it time.

IMHO for
PvE all is viable as long as you are not full condition (unless you are very patient)
World bosses most is viable, range is usefull, making ranger very nice
Dungeons tend to be ZERKER Guardians, thieves, elementalists and a warrior atm.
WvW = GWEN, while some rangers,mesmers,thieves, tend to be usefull mostly as condi roamers while all bbuilds have a place I’d start with a bit of tankyness
PvP tend to be condi and celestial builds I do not run pvp that often, all classes are viable

As for strengths and weakness
Warrior, great DPS, good buffing (AOE), good armor, good survivability, good conditionn potential
Guardian great DPS or good buffing, good armor, medium survivability, no condition potential
Ranger, good DPS on range, bit squishy on Melee, versatile, medium survivability, good condition potential
Engineer medium DPS, very versatile, medium survivability, reasonable condition potential
thief extreme single target DPS, squishy, stealth, low survivability, reasonable condition potential
elementalist extreme AOE DPS, ultra squishy, might/boon dispenser low survivability
necromancer, medium DPS, reasonable AOE, extreme condition potential , good survivability
mesmer , mediocre DPS, good condition potential, “shutdown proffesion” Timewarp, invisibiility, mediocre survivability…

Thieves are often used for easy acces to invisibility, mesmers can timewarp and boonstrip, necro’s can condibomb and boonstrip, warrior have a res banner. and AOE buffing capability (see pug carrier).

Present Meta (Pve/dungeons/(world bosses)) doesn’t require armor , just dodging.

And for Rangers in condi?? SB/ A+T trapper?

looking at conditions: necro, ranger, mesmer, engineer warrior, thief, ele, guardian in this order, not suggested for pve certainly not for dungeons

Well It fits my sylvari perfectly And I think it’s one of the more beautiful legendaries.
I guess some people like A and some like B (and not to forget the rest of the alphabets).

Luckily we are all different people, If we ’d all be the same and had the same preferences making a game would be easy. 1 character with 1 profession, playing 1 map. As everybody wants the same, perfect game.

I hate the gs’s, the moot, bifrost, frostfang, dreamer, quip, however: ‘hey let’s change all of them’ is a slap in the face of the people who liked them and put in so much effort to get them.
Well I do like predator, bolt, howler,the flame phrophecies, the spear (though i do not want to bother with an underwater weapon…) i have the meteorologicus as well.

Life is all about choices I guess…

Bandit.8279:

- Enjoyed GW1
- Despise monthly fees
- Dislike traditional MMO mechanics
- Love pretty games that push my PC
- BETA weekends were too much fun

+1
- Horizontal progression
- Beautiful landscape, nice characters, lovely workmanship.
- Good support (experienced it with gw1 and it inspired confidence
- Wanted to keep with the lore of Tyria. I played gw1 only 2.5 years, but fell in love with the lore, characters and so on. I felt sad the first time I was in southern Ebonhawke.

If or when an expansion was launched I just hope they improve loot drops 1 level

Raising your “blue blue blue green yellow” to “green green green yellow exotic”.

They introduced ascended quite some time ago but the scaling was never altered,
Maybe this would be good. It could also be used to increase drops for classic precursors, or add a precursor to legendary armor or new ascended precursors to the table.

Where we are looking at ascendeds now…think how often you get exotic weapons and armor, if they’d be on a higher droprate would it be a problem? maybe if you spend a long time making your ascneded armors it is, I have 15 characters I could use some ascended boxes tbh.

I played 5500 hours now, people who are starting now should get a helping hand.. No trait system, nomoney no nothing to start with… I calculates I earned about 4-5 gold an hour during this time netting me 20k-25k gold …. That’s my headstart.

I do not want a level increase and indeed: I’d prefer if trait points were added.

It would allow for more powerfull builds and would remove the need to grind stuff other then new looks.

I do not mind if a legendary armor and/or legendary rings were released.
But give ’m both l80 ascended stats like legendaries and make the stats changeable.
It would allow us to play an actual expansion instead of grind maps and grind and grind to get all mains and alts up to a new level , needing new armor, new weapons and new trinkets.

It is wasted time. due to the level scaling you will not benefit when you go back to say ac or cof. It would only hold back people to play new content. And that is just not what you’d want from a cooperative game.

Gw1 got 3 expansions and all characters stayed lvl 20. I hope sincerely this game will follow in it’s footsteps and do the same.

I would guess Arenanet would not raise level caps and leave us lvl 80. You’ll become more powerful anyways when and if the levelcap was raised and a lot as well..

6/4/0/0/6 warrior anyone? think about it.

Gronk.9675:

I know my client was not on my HDD and that along with dozens of GB was d/l last night but aren’t alt profiles saved localy as well as on Arenanet servers – if not then perhaps all my save entails is username/password. Either way I should have access to my old alts. Unless there is a cap to how many I can have I will keep them all.

Thanks to all of you for the help. Do you know if there are still a lot of newbs populating the early part of the game? It would be great not having to do all by myself cause nobody appropriate is around.

Well quite some people are returning, and of course there is the megaserver

You’ll like the concept, even though you do not know what I’m talking about.

Well I got 15 lvl 80’d mostly in part or full asc lvl 80 gear If the cap would change I would be very unhappy indeed…

As for area’s and whishes, I have none, anything will be great juast as long if it makes the game alive again. not that it’s dead now, I just hope it will sparkle again.

I will just see. Anything is very nice. And Even though my wish list has grown very long. I’m not gonna say I want this or that.

I’m just going to be happy with an expansion. A Lot. Really.

Only thing I do NOT want is level cap for players change, I have 15 lvl 80’s in ascendeds (and some exotics) I prefer no new grind to lvl x with another grind for 3-5% extra dmg which will ben nerfed again to balance again. Most people scream I have ascended, but due to the ferocity nerf and the other nerfs which have been done you’re doing the same damage as you were doing with exotics before…

But an expansion: yes please,
(I would appreciate:
-new dungeons, 8 man/12 man? Level scaling dungeon fighting mursaat? 3-5 paths apart and/or consecutive? (as fractals?, earning keys to open level bound"Uber-reward chest")
-new race
-new proffesion
-new areas
-new personal story
-new JPs, vista’s
-new fractals
-new and old armors unlocked for pve (thinking about the "lost"pvp-skins)
-new weapons, daggers underwater, spears, crossbows, 2 handed axes
-guild halls
-new legendaries
-new….. wel just new I guess… the works,
- more trait points or secondary proffesion? we’ll see
-NO LVL Changes: getting lvl 100 will be useless, and the grind would be not worth the effort IMHO. I’m very against raising the cap! I prefer actual ascension.
lets get HOT map completion!
Legendary armor l80, changeable stats armor. Ascended level, just more versatile. Also see: Legendary (weapon).
Legendary rings l80: changeable stats, ascended level, just more versatile.
Ascended crafting: jeweler and cook… (agony resist food (so i can try out new builds in fractals??)

Improvements on the reward list so we will not get 2 blues and 1 green anymore from an exotic chest, I’ll be happy with scaling 1 up, so 2 blues 1 green → 2 green, 1 yellow. And I know this will mean exotics and ascended drops (maybe even legendary???)

I’m in for another 6k hours if it turns out nice.

No problem for me. As long as the community understands this ISN’T a porblem of retaliation, but the 2 referred to skills of the engineer, which should be reconsidered and/or improved.

SilverWF.4789:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

The reason why no -ge would be if you’d do base damage, say 100/grenade and you get 5 retal you’d be "punished " with 5 dmg *15 targets is 75 damage. while you’d still do full condi dmg in vulnerability/bleeding/poison and chill, hiding a LOT of hidden dmg behind a very thin illusion.

OP. Again.

Not. Try to find zerg fights by yourself and check conditions.

Doubt I will find much. Then again in roaming parties of about 5 people conditions tend to be encountered frequently. Same for small scale guild raids (~10 ppl)

Maybe after that you’ll see WHY condi specs are NOT viable here even now – even for Necros meta is Power specs.

Well I tend to be on PU mesmer, condithief, condimancer, condi trapper a lot, mostly when roaming. They tend to function quite well. I tend to get joined by the occasional condi/hybrid engineer

Not because of Retaliation, yeah.

No it has to do with condition clears.

If you’ll failed to understand it by yourself, ask some experienced players about that.

Thank you for your trust in my abilities.

Just a remark. Retaliation isn’t only available in WVW zergs. The fact you are narrowing fields makes this very interesting as it shows the base where on you found your opinion is (very) circumstantial at best.

Regarding retaliation. It has a function. I described it as a countermeasure vs AOE bombing. The fact if you bomb with DPS or DOT doesn’t matter. It will make sure you are reminded there is someone who isn’t happy you are doing this.

The fact you say condition have nothing to do with it and conditions are all worthless, shows you are not looking at the bigger picture. This game is bigger then grenade/flamethrower wvw engineer only.

Retaliation is used in WvW, PvE and Dungeons (and of course PvP) it is a mechanic which can be used by friend and foe. As it is a boon, it can be stripped or turned or converted. On both sides, It can be used as well by an engineer himself. Nerfing your own boons seems illogical.

It wil return damage when attacked, generally scaling from power. it wil be about 400 fixed/ per hit on a target with retaliation

Retaliation works perfectly in deteriorating AOE attacks: except for 2 mentioned instances being:
Grenade kit and Flamethrower kit by engineers. Both weapons are partially condition based which isn’t mentioned, Damage is AoE non LOS and plagued by the number of attacks the perform. Fact is stated grenades do 15 procs if enough targets, doing 6000 retaliation per throw, every second. Original Poster finds the damage vs the realiation not worth it, but refuses to change opinion about build, views, about anything. There needs to be mentioned the full grenade throw needs to land on 5-15 characters with active retaliation & power builds in the first place
Grenades tend to hit twice or 3 times per throw, with the exception of the toolbelt skill which does 6 or 7. all there hits will cause vulnerability, enhancing damage.
Flamethrower tends to hit 5 times a second doing considerable damage and proccing fire. It hits 5 people maximum and duration is 2 seconds, proccing 50 times if all targets are under retaliation. 50*400 =20k dmg. if everybody has a powerbuild.

The fact grenades cause other effects is ignored as poster refuses to expand his FOV.
The fact All AOE’s are affected by retaliationis ignored as poster refuses to expand his FOV.
The fact a lots of different options have been posted tends to matter nothing.
The fact most examples are non-comparable tends to matter nothing.
The first option presented by poster would require 5 classes rebalanced…
The alternative given is even more OP then the previous example, allowing condition builds to spam condition fields with only a few points worth of damage to themselves when attacking retaliation carriers, rendering retal useless.
Leaving the present option (retaliation as it is now) and a rework of grenadier kits the best solution.

As some frustration seems to mount some people tend to forget to stay nice and constructive. Please try to stay a gentleman (m/f) in this discussion.

If you lower the value to a percentage condition enigineer would be OP. So would any other condition user in the game… if they’d use an AOE field for conditions or not.

While you’d still do full condi dmg in vulnerability/bleeding/poison and chill, you’d be hiding a LOT of hidden dmg behind a very thin retaliation-like illusion.

OP. Again.

And I’m not going to argue about a lot of damage when fighting someone with retaliation, You are just to focussed to see others experience it as well…

And having a NON-LOS weapon which can dmg 15 seperate targets EVERY second
Damages are per hit and can be applied up to 15 times. depending on the spread of targets.

I was wondering and calculated it, based on the simplest of things without buffs and so on.
Calculated for a 3000 armor guardian in wvw (most extreme I could think of, no use using a zerk ele now would it)
for 109+((0.33*2400*1100)/3000)= 400 dmg base with 1 vulnerability and a chance of bleeding…
(base guardian armor in wvw 3000, general power of power users 2400, weapon dmg ~1100. leaving all boosts in power and traits to the side.)

Or against heavy armor zerk in pve
for 109+((0.33*2400*1100)/2100)= 570 dmg base / grenade with 1 vulnerability and a chance of bleeding…
(base zerk armor in pve 2100, general power of power users 2400, weapons dmge ~1100)

Things which do not seem to count this is the lowest damaging grenade skill with 1 second and then recharged and ready to rethrow , NO need for LOS

The other 4 grenade skills provide conditions, which are not empty for grenadiers, generally when running precision they tend to have 200-250 condition dmg as well, and those conditions are not counted. Not counting most other grendades as they scale better and do more conditions. And lastly not counting MIGHT… which will raise the amounts of physical and condition damage considerably.

While I agree 400 retal on your 400 dmg doing grenade is much, but you can lob it anywhere. And the fact you can stack a lot of vulnerabilty, and get +10% dmg isn’t in this calculation, nor is food and utilities,nor are crits, nor other buffs. It does show grenades need a secondary stat to be more dangerous but still I do not agree why we should reduce retaliation.

Like I said It’s not retaliation which is the problem it is engineers skills which are the problem. If they’d allow for less ticks you’d be out of a problem now, would you? So recheck the skill. Suggest a skill functionality change. NOT retaliation.

If the damage is actually this low why run the grenade kit in the first place? You could ask for the grenades to be combined reducing your problem to half or even a third of what it was before, like you could ask for the flamethrower to proc less, 3 or 4 times a second instead of 5. It could solve a lot of problems.

And now 1 thing: please do not come and say well it’s only 400, Now also admit you use food, get a 10% free buff from traits, get a wvw buff, utilities, might, I also didn’t calculate the vulnerability, leaving your actual damage 100-300 higher per grenade on hit then what is listed here, EXCLUDING conditions AND criticals (dmg * 1.5 minimum, (up to 2.0)) calculated for HEAVY classes.

And have 15 chances to trigger this damage per second.
This allows in cetrain areas for up to 15k dmg with a throw of grenades reecharged in 1 sec. EXCLUDING conditions.

Where is your reward? guess in the fact you can hit people for up to 1200- 2250 dmg every second over 1200 range giving 3 vulnerability with a SMALL chance of bleeds
and do not even have to see them. I am not even going to talk about the 4 other skills, they hit fewer targets (9 hits max), but the 6 attack skills combined…(grenade barrage on the toolbelt)

SilverWF.4789:

naiasonod.9265:

The truly rewarding skill is stopping what you’re doing, then doing something that doesn’t immediately cause you to kill yourself.

I’m sure you can find something other than flamethrower and grenades to use, yeah? Some other way to be useful sometimes? I see engineers out there plenty often. I see plenty of them not dropping dead all the time like the world’s out to get them.

Adapt or keep dyin’, mate. There’s a very good chance they’re not going to nerf this no matter what you think or don’t.

You just approved that I’m right.
Because “stopping what you’re doing” means “stop dealing damage” and with the same amount of Retaliation that Elem have you will bring maybe 10 times less damage.
So how the hell you dare to say about “rewarding risk”??? If I’m risking – OK, but where is my reward?

Your reward is attacking when there is NO retaliation. Why do you want to force the world your zerk engi to be OP ranged power build with no risk? just stand at 1200 range and nothing to worry about? And I understand that grenade barrage will be a problem, 7*5 targets in 1 throw… making 35 hits. But can’t you see why?

What you are asking is OP. So no, no %-ge, no 1 time per second. Just make sure you watch and check your targets before you throw, if needed all 35…. And leave the rest. It’s your choice to throw them and theirs to react, either by retal or dodge or reflect.

Reason why no %-ge: because all condi builds will have no mitigation anymore. you’ll do 200 dmg per grenade/person and get 10 dmg/person on retal… for 150 retalled and 15 times a condition… For conditions which can tick up for hundreds or even thousands of damage. Not to mention combined.

aspirine.6852:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

aspirine.6852:

Pax, I have no problem with retal and for instance meteor showering zergs. In fact I have less retal damage from the whole meteor channel than one single skill one with my grenade kit.
And this grenade 1 does what, around 1500 damage in total compared to the meteor showers 50k damage?
I agree we cant make something like throw grenades too powerfull, we cant have engi’s shine all of a sudden in WvW group play now cant we

The one grenade*throw* does 1500 damage vs 15 people so 22.5k (15 procs).
and my Meteor shower does 4000 dmg in wvw (8500 in pve) and can give 72 retaL procs, It’s like your 5 grenade skills (75 retal procs) combined then you’ll be doing 5 times 22.5k all of a sudden or 112.5k dmg…

So please… Do not compare 1 grenade with 1 meteor shower. Compare 1 grenade throw with 5 fireballs as it does 5 times 1500 dmg vs 3 targets. and will give the same amount of procs: 15.

No my grenades do about 1500 damage in total to everyone, perhaps a little more but not a lot. . I dont have a power build or anything.

Then you’re using a condi build, then know you’re hitting 15 people with a condition at the same time with 4 skills, NO OTHER PROFFESION can match it! NONE!

SO grenades are very strong if not OP, and therefore they are hit hard by retaliation.

aspirine.6852:

Pax, I have no problem with retal and for instance meteor showering zergs. In fact I have less retal damage from the whole meteor channel than one single skill one with my grenade kit.
And this grenade 1 does what, around 1500 damage in total compared to the meteor showers 50k damage?
I agree we cant make something like throw grenades too powerfull, we cant have engi’s shine all of a sudden in WvW group play now cant we

The one grenade*throw* does 750 damage vs 15 people so 11.25k (15 procs).
and my Meteor shower does 4000 dmg in wvw (8500 in pve) and can give 72 retaL procs, It’s like your 5 grenade skills (75 retal procs) combined then you’ll be doing 5 times 11k, all of a sudden or 55k dmg…

So please… Do not compare 1 grenade with 1 meteor shower. Compare 1 grenade throw with 5 fireballs as it does 5 times 1500 dmg vs 3 targets. and will give the same amount of procs: 15.

SilverWF.4789:

I won’t “remove Retaliaton”, I say “make it the same for every class”.
Period.

It is already the same for every class. SO it is not a problem with retaliation but with the use or the functioning of the grenade and the flamethrower skill(s).

If this remains a problem I’d suggest lookking towards your kit-skills and see how you can improve upon them . Not calling fro a retaliation nerf.