Regardless of it being a small fix, when many teams try and ‘squeeze in’ more fixes, they start to go untested, missing from patch notes, and ultimately cause more harm than good.
+1 to more testing and less bugs. I have been impressed with the quality of the releases I’ve seen versus other MMOs I play.
You must not play very many MMOs.
I understand your frustration. As a player, I also want more features. However as a developer, I would rather have our releases get the testing time they deserve. The more we try and do without pushing back release dates, the lower the quality bar of that release gets. Regardless of it being a small fix, when many teams try and ‘squeeze in’ more fixes, they start to go untested, missing from patch notes, and ultimately cause more harm than good.
I’m all for testing and making sure bugs don’t make their way into games, which then lends to the question of why there still isn’t a PTR?
We have multiple teams all working on different things at different times. The fix for is bug lives with the rest of the upcoming PvP features and will be released at the same time. Since this bug fix will be retroactive, we’re not worried about trying to squeeze it into an earlier release.
You guys really aren’t worried about squeezing any fixes into any release, as it relates to pvp. First it was, “big patches”, then it was, “no will move things to smaller releases so you don’t have to wait”, now it’s “BIGGER AND BESTESTSTSTSTSTSTSTESETSTS patches”. All the lip service you guys give that only serves your current staffing pattern is tiresome.
You want to know why the hundreds of players that each of us brought over from other games left? Well, you already know why and yet you still choose to do nothing for proper pvp staffing. All the people that we pulled from other games (it wasn’t you guys who did it) all left and they’re not coming back. You think those releases in China are going to do anything differently for you? You’ll do the same thing to them as you did to us. FRUSTRATION AT AN ALL TIME MAX
While we are fixing outliers…please look at the application rate of torment on impale.
Just play conjure might stacking (d/d) build or s/d fury stacking build, both pure burst and enjoy. You’re going to die on ele anyway you play it, so you might as well get some fun out of globaling some people too.
C – rappy feedback from bad players is acted upon .
I want to just clarify this point. They have stated numerous times that they constantly consult the “HIGH” tier pvp players when making changes. So, in essence I agree with what you’re saying and laugh at who they consider to be “HIGH” level.
We’ve asked this question so many times, but why can we not see our MMR? Ranking without being able to see what your current MMR is doesn’t mean anything.
i’ve seen just couple of bots in my first half year of playing.
i have seen five in past 2 days.
they would keep bumping in walls, staring at you, casting once in a while nonsensical spells.
this was to be expected with rewards in sPvp. i’ve been reporting them, wonder if anyone’s watching.
The crazy part is most of them are warriors and they have this hacking heal skill where they don’t do anything and still regenerate more health than most people can put out damage…I’ve reported several of them, I suggest you do also!
Enable: Dev Program Response (1.1v)
Dear (GetPostName(A1)) thanks for your post!
We are currently working hard and can’t post often; however, (GetRandom(P1:P5))
P1: we’d love to talk about it, but we can’t say too much right now
P2: Although we can’t go into details, we’ll have much more information coming soon!
P3: we appreciate all of the responses and love the way this post is organized. I’ll show it to the guys in the next meeting!
P4: we are watching this thread closely and also having our own internal discussions about this matter
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Nicely done. You only failed to mention when they have log on to the joint moderator account to close accounts, because they only have 3 people that actually work there.
Ive just lost connection from a match, and now im being told I cant play PvP for the next 2 days?
Excuse me, AN, but I paid for this game. Quite a lot of money as well before you over-generously lowered the price tag, and now your denying me the product I paid money for. Simply disgraceful, band of thieves.
Whats even more insulting, is that it wasn’t even my internet connection that caused me to be forced out, beacuse im running multiple applications, and im in a crystal clear skype call, indicating that your incompetent servers aren’t up to scratch, and im the one having to compensate for that.
I am genuinely disgusted, as a customer, long-term player and beta tester. So what do I do now, is it possible to submit a ticket, and get the product I paid for returned to me, or do I just have to sit here while 2 days of the game I purchased is cheated from me? I have not done a single thing wrong, and im being inconvenienced like this.
EDIT: I just noticed the tooltip on the “Dishonored” thing. Absolutely disgraceful that you would write such an infringing, subjective, and unethical thing in a game, to your players, I genuinely take offense to reading that, under these circumstances.
Stop going into ranked matches with crap connections. Go hotjoin or slay some pve; you still have access to both.
Just because your experience with 1 solo que(different story in team arena) makes you lose 1 match, is so terrible, someone shouldnt be pvp banned for day(s)? Right so just because your playing experience cant be perfect ALL the time, people who cant help it should get the skritt end of the stick? Please, you people are so greedy and arrogant.
Nothing is stopping you from playing hotjoins when your connection is bad.
It is a BAD idea and it’s exactly why it will continue to make its way into the game.
The only things that will be huge are Grouch’s promises that they have much more in the works but “sadly” cant talk about.
FINALLY!! Some people are now getting it.
For when transmute, shared anguish, mirror anguish, tempest defense, last stand, and any other on hit proc’ing ability that procs an automatic defensive ability.
Oh, here we go. So Mesmers were change, the Deceptive Evasion. I think it’s, I don’t like it – the change they did to Deceptive Evasion [Deceptive Evasion will no longer create new clones if you already have full images]. Obviously not because of Clone Death, but because – for example:
- If a Thief jumps me, as a Mesmer, I want to be able to have the option of being able to dodge, then Daze him, or dodge and Shatter. But if I have 3 clones up, my Deceptive Evasion isn’t going to do anything. So it kind of hampers my movement.
For this reason, with the change to deceptive evasion, they need to make illusionary persona base line.
And with current iteration of evasive arcana that also needs to be base line for ele.
Believe it or not every time we QQ it proves the devs made a game that we care about.
So the devs do a good job. They know their stuff, they seem to have good chemistry and they do support the game – we cant say they don’t.
But for the love of tyria please hotfix warrior and elite ranger spirit to what you suggested. Next patch just stick these in. We really cannot wait for the warrior 8% HS reduction. Please listen to us and put this change in before the big balance patch. I guarentee you it wont screw the meta up. There is NO CHANCE warrior wont be still the best after this 8% nerf. Same with the ranger elite spirit.
Thanks,
Henry
I think their concern here is that takes away 2 bullet points from their 15 bullet point “LARGE” pvp patch.
I forgot to mention, there are currently ongoing discussions about two major changes that they didn’t discuss on the preview. One was related to the rune set revamp and the changes to Lyssa runes and the cast time (animation) they are adding to signet of spite. At this point, since they are waiting to talk about those two abilities, I would just release the information that I already was able to get.
(edited by Pyriall.5027)
I’m a mesmer and i hate necros with a passion. Ever since “Pax patch”.. but I do agree with you buddy.
Its as Helseth said when he gave his opinion about the Ready Up, it is a really big change for necros to be honest, completely goes what they say “shave it down”. In my opinion in the pax patch they overkilled buffed necros when they didn’t need to and with things didn’t really need, and now they’re over killing it.
Let me just try to understand your logic here…they “over buffed” with the pax patch. Now, necros are still maintaining an additional TWO conditions they didn’t have before they were “over buffed” and an active tweak to one of those two conditions you felt they were over buffed with…something just doesn’t make sense when you say that it is over killing it.
did they atleast fix the (no signet passives) bug each time you join a new game?
they said they’d do that for this patch but its not in the notes.
sick of having to reclick all of my signets each time i switch games! (each time the map rotation gets to *suck*hammer), not to mention accidentally clicking the signet sucks even more!
Haven’t been able to test it, although they did say this one would be in the next update (this one). It’s probably just something they missed on the patch notes…
It’s most likely not enough playerbase, even the best matchmaking in the world cant make up for a low playerbase.
If there’s such a large deviation in MMR, honestly, I would rather sit in queue and play hot joins then to constantly be paired with people with so much lower MMR and play against people with such higher MMR.
Separately, when are we going to be seeing the ratings of the players in the match. I feel that the omission of this information is intentional to hide a broken system even further.
@zilcho.7624: Are you taking into consideration the rating reset that happened about a month ago?
1) It could be that your MMR was reset higher than it was before. This should settle quickly because your deviation and volatility were also reset.
2) Playing during off-peak hours, especially while your deviation/volatility were high, could have caused your MMR to settle somewhere higher or lower than it should be.
Of course, this is just speculation. I will keep an eye on your account and see if I learn more.
Keep your eye on the system. Getting paired against top 50 players and then having people on your team in the bottom 900 doesn’t make sense unless this is some super backwards math involved in your MMR system.
IB4 Grouchasaurus comes in to try and calm the masses with some vague reference to future updates that they’re unsure of and he used to hate hearing when he was a player….
This was eerie. Are you in the air ducts?
Not to be too forward, but was there some reasoning behind “rushing” to do a balance preview before a patch that wasn’t meant to contain the previewed balance changes? Especially with a “no ETA” policy?
I’m just wondering, because it seems like the balance preview could have either waited until next Friday’s (January 31) bi-weekly stream, or somebody could of just come out and said that today was going to be an empty balance patch with a few minor bug fixes.
Was there any sort of reasoning behind it? Scheduling purposes, anything?
I, for one, enjoy the balancing previews. I wouldn’t want for some of those suggestions to go live without further testing. However, there were some things that could have been fixed/implemented this go around. Healing Signet and signet of restoration are two of the things that come to mind. Those are just minor number adjustments.
IB4 Grouchasaurus comes in to try and calm the masses with some vague reference to future updates that they’re unsure of and he used to hate hearing when he was a player….
Every profession in the game is capable of that kind of number. The problem is the delivery mechanic and disengage ability of some professions versus others.
It’s fairly easy to dodge OR reflect (muhahaha) unless you are stunned/immobilized for days.
It acts as no other condition application in the game. There needs to be a faster application rate or the ability needs to apply all stacks in the beginning and the rip needs to do something else.
The application rate on this ability is broken. Classes running with minimal or even maximum amount of condition cleanse get worked over by the constant reapplication and the pace which it applies.
Is there any discussion about a nerf to the pacing of torment on impale?
I can’t believe this map is still in the rotation. WTH are you thinking anet
They are thinking, they built a map that “a lot of people hate and a lot of people like it, it’s very popular” Grouchasaurus Rex
Some sort of veto system would definitely be really nice for solo Q… Will we ever see one get implemented? Probably not.
The easiest thing to do would be to just send it the way of RoC and make it hot join only. You would think that, with the amount of gimmicky kitten that happens on Skyhammer and the amount of ppl that complain about it everyday, this would be an easy decision. My theory is that someone high up in Anet had a hand in designing or theorizing this map and no one wants to hurt his feewings.
You will play it and you will like it, because they made it…and that’s final.
WvWvW is NOT PVP!!!! Its “I have really great gear and you are a level 5 with white gear one, insert dubstep OST, WOB WOB I AM YOUTUBE kitten!”. Thats all it is, thats all it will ever be, its not PVP in any sense of the word. Its Gear vs Gear, so theirs your GvG haha.
As for Eles being OP, are you smoking crack? Eles are currently the most broken class in the game, they are weak in every sense of the word. The only people playing ele are new players, people new to pvp (oh they soon learn how silly an ele in pvp is), or those die hard 1 class for life types (we salute you, just because you were nerfed into the ground, dont let that stop you).
Honestly this is mental, how ANYONE could think an ele is OP is beyond me. Warrior yeah, necro maybe, ele? never. I cannot think of a class I would say is weaker overall, not one, the ele IS the bottom of the food chain as far as PVP goes.
The burst is so pathetic its unreal, I can do more on my hybrid thief than a full glass ele. In fact, they have the lowest health, worst armor, and some poor condition builds (you would think the ele would be king of conditions, oddly enough that was castrated as well as combo fields, everything in water attunement and build choices).
I actually am gob smacked at how an ele can be thought as OP. Engie is on life support, but ele is rotting in its grave, with a group of hooded teenagers peeing in his eye sockets and farting on it. Any more nerfs run the risk of making the ele never exist, it will just not be there and no one will notice.
You have no idea what you’re talking about if you think ele burst is “pathetic” and that engi is on life support. Elementalist might not be on par in other attributes but their burst is certainly not one of the weak points of the class, in fact I would argue that ele has the highest direct dmg burst of any class. Engis are doing fine.
Ele burst, in pure glass, is broken. That doesn’t justify the current state of elementalists. The burst needs to be toned down and as well as the other broken builds in the game.
This is 100% the developers fault for nerfing abilities without first fixing the bugs associated with them.
Tone it down how? that burst is on a long cooldown, and you have to land it. Its also easy to avoid, and it can be dealt with, and if your a bunker build its of little concern really. So once that brittle, doesnt always work, easy to deal with, only works once a minute basically is done with, you sit there, no way of taking a sustained attack, no real way to keep the damage up. Thats right, you either die, pray for back up, or simply run away. I rarely see anyone running ele in arena, and if they are glass, they are going down before thay can really hope to get that burst off on anyone.
Please, make one and go to arena (soloq is fine if you dont have a team, in fact most teams would kick a burst ele for any number of better replacements), and see how rubbish it is. I play a thief and eles can cause issues with there high mobility, and even I am saying that eles feel really fragile when I fight them, and the damage has poor uptime. All I have to do is deal with that bit of burst and free kill or he runs away.
I’m not even going to address you until you clarify what do you mean by high mobility. 1200 range on a 40 second cd…
This is not a joke , it is the sad truth of pvp . AI based builds destroy pvp . I want to Q up for some player versus player matches but I end up fighting mobs instead. Not only its not fun but it is also incredibly overpowered.
Really, AI based builds destroy PvP?
So Animist/Bonedancers/Spiritmasters/Cabalist/Therugist/Enchanter/Minstrel/Sorceror destroyed DAOC’s PvP?
Do you know what people did in that game instead of whining about dying to pets? They killed the pets…
Well there was a time when they did whine… and that was on Animist, Since they could summon 50 Pets in one spot…yes 50….. and you’re whining about 5 or 6..
Everytime I see someone whining about pets in this game I can’t help but laugh… You guys would slit your wrist the first time you came across a Theurgist in DAOC.
Good thing we’re not playing DAOC, because boy would it get awkward complaining about that game on these forums.
WvWvW is NOT PVP!!!! Its “I have really great gear and you are a level 5 with white gear one, insert dubstep OST, WOB WOB I AM YOUTUBE kitten!”. Thats all it is, thats all it will ever be, its not PVP in any sense of the word. Its Gear vs Gear, so theirs your GvG haha.
As for Eles being OP, are you smoking crack? Eles are currently the most broken class in the game, they are weak in every sense of the word. The only people playing ele are new players, people new to pvp (oh they soon learn how silly an ele in pvp is), or those die hard 1 class for life types (we salute you, just because you were nerfed into the ground, dont let that stop you).
Honestly this is mental, how ANYONE could think an ele is OP is beyond me. Warrior yeah, necro maybe, ele? never. I cannot think of a class I would say is weaker overall, not one, the ele IS the bottom of the food chain as far as PVP goes.
The burst is so pathetic its unreal, I can do more on my hybrid thief than a full glass ele. In fact, they have the lowest health, worst armor, and some poor condition builds (you would think the ele would be king of conditions, oddly enough that was castrated as well as combo fields, everything in water attunement and build choices).
I actually am gob smacked at how an ele can be thought as OP. Engie is on life support, but ele is rotting in its grave, with a group of hooded teenagers peeing in his eye sockets and farting on it. Any more nerfs run the risk of making the ele never exist, it will just not be there and no one will notice.
You have no idea what you’re talking about if you think ele burst is “pathetic” and that engi is on life support. Elementalist might not be on par in other attributes but their burst is certainly not one of the weak points of the class, in fact I would argue that ele has the highest direct dmg burst of any class. Engis are doing fine.
Ele burst, in pure glass, is broken. That doesn’t justify the current state of elementalists. The burst needs to be toned down and as well as the other broken builds in the game.
This is 100% the developers fault for nerfing abilities without first fixing the bugs associated with them.
I’m not saying we are the greatest team but we are all pretty much top 100 ranked players EU and if a thief wants to try killing our ele he gets introduced to a warrior’s hammer in his face and then a massive burst that will take him 100 to nothing in a matter of a split second. Teamwork can make this build work.
IMO nothing in this game has the kind of burst potential and delivery that ele so it still has its uses in the right hands.
I’m sure his teammates won’t be doing anything to help him/her…now before we get into the never ending what if cycles, let’s just address the rest of the match outside of that one encounter. The thief has the best mobility and his burst potential is great enough to always warrant a baby sitter for the ele. That alone, makes it more worthwhile to bring a glass thief than an glass ele. Not to mention poison/fields and daze on steal and group stealth. Mean while, the ele has to devote his utility slots to damage and possibly a minor condi cleanse if they take EA.
Are there any items that have a low (<1%) chance of dropping from the mystic forge? I need to get rid of tons of tournament and rank tokens and have all the usual stuff…
All of your salvaged pvp materials are worthless. Let’s hope they intend to give us other ways of using them before the completely discard glory.
MM Necros have no stunbreaks
Thank you for linking that irrelevant skill.
One of the most under utilized abilities in the game. Makes a huge difference on Khylo and Nifhel.
Here is how I see it. Hotjoins and ranked solo/team queue (please stop calling this arena, it’s such an obvious marketing ploy that it’s embarrassing) are so marginally different that you can virtually run any build you want. Solo queue is now the new hot join and team queue is now the new solo queue. The ONLY time where you are going to be able to truly test the viability of a build is against a coordinated team.
Coordinated teams queuing are so few that you don’t get an accurate portrayal of what you can and cannot run. I can run a pure burst 30/30/10/0/0 might stacking/zerker/ conjure build in both queues and yes it blows people up. These are the same people who stand in churning earth, face tank deep freeze/ice storm, and can’t bother to dodge flame leap/fire grab. Now, when you run against a coordinated team your “happy” time is over. One thief will ruin a glass ele.
The biggest problem with balance, in this game, is this. There are 5 members to a ranked team. A-net doesn’t balance for roles within that team. If they did, you would see that elementalists are not excelling more than any other profession in any one role. Now, the problem with elementalists are that even within each role they are not competitive enough to justify not taking someone else. Mobility was destroyed, sustain was destroyed, bunkering was destroyed, condition removal was destroyed, and the only thing you’re left with is ridiculous burst which can easily be targeted by a thief or Mesmer.
A few things you should know first.
1. A-net does not publish ANYTHING, “until it’s ready”. So, based on that information alone you can safely assume they want this as part of the game…
2. Hotfix in pvp? Sorry sir, unless there is an E at the end of it; don’t expect a hot fix
3. Report feature? Surely you jest…something SOOOOOO complicated as an
appropriate report feature isn’t on the “LIST” until 4th quarter of 2016.
pls stop saying that spirit ranger is an AI build. spirits do not attack players. spirits are just like moving signets. it takes more than auto-attacking to play this build well.
Nice one! I spit my coffee all over my desk. You’re such a funny guy.
Here’s a lesson that took well over 8 years for Blizzard to learn. You CANNOT balance damage output with such a large discrepancy in base hp’s. The idea alone doesn’t make sense. You want everyone to be able to play a “burst” build and be competitive with damage, yet you handicap others by not allowing to live through initial burst. Don’t worry, we know the developers at A-Net are smart enough to figure this out…ROFL, just kidding.
That’s fine. The developers have my feedback, so I’m content with what I’ve said.
If you want to learn more about high-level play, look up some streams.
Feedback is pointless without the evidence to back it up. In your case, you’re just citing a couple of so-called “professional” teams. Many, many actual professionals would disagree with your evaluation.
More importantly than anything you both are arguing about is who are these top level “professional” teams you guys are referring to that are “defining” the meta? All you have are super pugs running in team queues until they run against a semi competent alternate super pug and then they log.
Rinse and repeat that cycle until you get people claiming to be top level players on the forums and you have the current state of pvp.
Sounds like a joke, too bad its not even funny.
Can you please tell me which part is a joke? I will fix it.
Healing signet…the whole concept of the signet is to force a choice between actives and passives. Currently there is no choice and your idea of forcing people into a trait line to make a base heal, even remotely useful is just as terrible as the idea to keep the passive healing this strong. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out what needs to be done with this signet.
snip
When consulting with Caed, I was told those damage numbers probably wouldn’t even be enough to make traps/wire worth consider losing a precious stunbreak. But, point taken; changed the numbers to resemble an auto attack.
I feel D/D should be the ‘pure dps’ go-to while sacrificing utility. Yes, reverting the nerf to CnD and introducing a decent 20 DA trait would result in tons of damage,
- CnD : 5066
- Steal : 1097
- BS : 6092
11k with no aegis or protection. That’s a fair amount considering an elementalist can do the same thing, if not more, with less telegraphs and still offer more support to their team, right?
And what can D/P Trickery do? 25% less damage but with a game-changing steal every 21 seconds that interrupts stability/aegis stomps and resses and a plethora of blinds and other interrupts? I for one would still choose trickery. But those who prefer pure damage wouldn’t be at such a huge disadvantage anymore now would they?
We shouldn’t further promote the limitation of other burst builds in the game. Thief is already the head of that class and that amount of damage only exacerbates the situation.
You use elementalist as justification for those numbers. Elementalists do not have nearly the mobility or amount of disengage a thief has currently. What is this talk of support? What type of support does a fresh air elementalist provide?
This old formatting needs to go away. The tier lists should first define the active roles on a team with an agreed upon description. Such as:
Mid-Bunker-
Offensive Roamer-
Defensive Roamer-
Far Point Assaulter-
Etc
Then rank the professions with their best builds in each role. Such as:
Offensive Roamer-Generally a burst build with high mobility. Can navigate between team fights and push the back lines to burst down a target. Is able to engage/disengage with a high level of effectiveness.
1. Thief
2. Mesmer
3. Warrior
4. Ranger
5. Elementalist
6. Necromancer
7. Engineer
8. Guardian
These would be the best power builds each build could attain for the defined role.
Something like that should be done and you can add the various builds within each role to discuss. We can’t just tier based on profession without first looking to see where the professions lie within each role on a team. The current tier list is like asking who is the best football player. It’s just too broad a category.
With this type of formatting you can start to analyze why a profession falls short and where improvements can/should be made. I will say that power ranger gained a ton of disengage ability solely with the addition to stealth on longbow 3 and that’s why I have it ranked so high. Just a minor tweak to something like that makes a huge difference. It also goes on to explain why some builds succeed where others fall short.
(edited by Pyriall.5027)
Attrition yes, but not using Soldiers I run with Berserker and 5 Scholar and 1 Divinity For higher crits, I maintain a constant 5+ stacks of might and can survive a lot due to stealth healing and blinds.
It is a roamer build to get in, take the kill for my team or res a team mate with SR then move on to help another point or decap far point if my team mates have the fight under control.
Why berserkers if you’re running hidden killer, scholar, and divinity? That’s a marginal gain for crit damage and a big loss in durability vs soldiers.
Anet way of balance: u dont do enof condi dmg? ok here is another condi, oh u cant remove condis? ok here have more condi removal or inmunity , oh u are not doing so much dmg now? here have more conditions and so on … having that way of thinking its impossible that they reach “balance”.
I think i posted months ago that they nerf stuff that dont need to be nerfed and they change stuff that it doesnt make sense, they just throwing stuff and hoping some day to reach something even close to balance.
anyway game is fun still lol.
It amazes me that more people don’t point this out. Take a look at the nerf to elementalist’s condition clears and the follow up buff by adding dhuumfire and torment. Also take a look at boons and boon steals/hate.
S/P thief is not as good as ppl make it. I play thief and have no problem dealing with them. S/P thief is easier to kill than D/P imo.
I play D/D 0/30/30/10/0 btw
What S/P thieves are you playing against. You’re also playing an attrition build with hidden killer and soldiers I presume.
We’d like to incorporate guilds into the ladder/season system when we come out with it next year, but nothing is very concrete yet. Personally, I think it would be awesome to look at the ladders and see guilds listed rather than individual players. That said, this could pose issues for more casual players who like to ‘team hop’ or pug about.
I’m probably opening myself up to some interesting suggestions, but imagine you’re in-charge of creating the ladder/season system.
- How would you design it?
- How would you incentivize teams to stay together?
- Would you penalize them for splitting?
- What types of rewards would you include for each ‘division’ on the ladder?
Note: I’m talking about futures seasons/ladders, not the current system.
Use WoW’s system of team charters and personal MMR. With a reset on team ranking on new creation.
the Chill effect is just fine.. there aren’t that many ways to apply it and they all have short durations.
this would be true however there are certain specs (specifically on ranger and engi are two I can think of) that have the possibility to apply 10 or even 20 seconds of it at a time with proper runes and trait choices. When in shorter durations it’s not so bad but when you get crazy durations like that on you it starts to get a bit annoying especially if you dont have a condi cleanse coming off cooldown anytime soon.
So the effect is fine, but duration is the issue? Duration, of any condition when you don’t have a clear, is annoying. I can put more than 40 seconds of burning on someone in a opener and walk away if they don’t have a clear up.
My condolences…