To sum everything up if you want to WvW actually do WvW if you want to get some exp or WvW levels or loot or gold just go EoTM and be glad there is a perma train running to help new characters catch up to the rest of us
Has anyone developed an efficient way to recruit for WvW given mega server trade offs? i need the ability to recruit for a WvW guild along with the ability to call reinforcements into WvW when the outnumbered buff starts to become intimidating
idk i find i tag enough people in my nuke’em spec if i lay all my wells out in a line and run thru them using life transfer tho i guess i would use staff if i was more focused on tagging for personal gain than actually helping my zerg
The only real problem with the axe is that the auto attack doesn’t do “enough”. If they extended the duration of the vulnerability the axe applied, it would make it more of a “attrition weapon” in that taking too much vulnerability leaves you open to be killed. They could also increase the damage a tad on the auto attack.
Axe 2 is good damage and the life force generation is solid. No real problems there.
Axe 3 is good in about any and all situation. Be it chasing, fleeing, group fights, or just trading blows.
They already buffed the vuln duration and the dmg slightly several months ago. It wasnt nearly enough.
Axe 2 isnt good damage. Its only good for lifeforce generation and it provides better damage than the auto. But its not good damage.
Axe 3 is fine but it should be a blast finisher.
are you kittenting me axe 2 is a total killshot i can rip half a players health away with it in a single shot tho blast finisher on axe 3 would be nice if not overkill since a necro can lay a darkness to apply aoe blind without any teamwork needed
the argument about it being a second health bar or making necro too tanky is childish necro have no stealth no clones no adrenaline fueled heals no entire skill bar full of heals ele or guard) the only class that doesnt have a hell with that your not killing me skill is engi. and honestly the DS tank builds deal such pathetic damage does it really matter if they stay alive longer than everyone else? you slaughter their zerg while they fail to contribute enough damage to push yours back and then you kill that one idiot running DS tank and in pvp just immobilize and burn that kitten he cant use utility so he has no stun breaks he is TOAST if he tries to beat you with some kitten tank build. lets be honest necro siphons and heals with the exception of party heal from life transfer trait are worthless. and as long as we dont get our utility skills while in DS we wont gain much the other classes dont have by being able to heal in DS.
but if it really bothers you that they are too tanky why not “heals are reduced by 50% while in DS” boom thieves and mesmer continue to slip away like nothing happened guards and ele just super heal the hell out of death itself warriors remain immortal rangers kick it back with their moa and enough range to shoot a can off the tallest tower of SM and we all continue to screw engis over every day?
oh hey i just got more OP in WvW 3 shotting zergs with my wells wasnt nearly enough now let me work with a mesmer and drop a goly in a contested lords room for insta siege
interesting concept i might try it out my current pvp build is a protection and heal necro for team play and minionmaster for solo scrub Q
honestly more range would be OP axe 1 could use some buffing but axe 2 at 1200 range or even 900 range? HOLY kitten you realize i can burn 60% of a light armor player with axe 2 alone right? axe 3 does aoe cripple retal and boon removal mean ANYTHING to you? also its 600m radius that is a 1200 diameter range on that aoe in most pvp team fights that is hitting the whole team and shattering all of the mesmers active clones. please just stop you have no idea what it is like to face a good axe necro. an axe necro deals long range defensive damage with his 7-10 abilities which are some of the most damage wise devastating abilities in the entire game. a good well of suffering will tick for 5k and so will auto attack from lich form plus vs certain classes lich form 4 is auto kill because of its consistent damage from minions that move much faster than any player without haste.
no i know that you dont see many necro in meta and that well it sucks i know but its more because the current meta doesnt like zerker builds but if you take a zerker necro to WvW you will find your zerg roflstomping fights they should have lost and wait for meta to rotate back towards condi builds and you will see necro showing up again. please keep in mind meta rotates as players make a build to counter the current meta build then someone else makes a build to counter that build then a build is made to counter that and that build is countered by the original meta. give the game time to adjust the patch threw a wrench in the gears of the meta machine and it needs time to figure out where the necro and mesmer fell off to.
What do you guys think of grabbing XII in soul reaping for the +50% crit chance in DS. The theory being that you cast your wells then pop DS to have almost 100% critting wells. The build would look something like 0/2/2/4/6 or 0/4/0/4/6 if you want to use spectral wall and get fear to damage.
wouldnt bother getting 80% crit rate is easy and in zergs you have almost perma fury and if that isnt enough take lich form as your ulti it gives you about 40% crit bonus in bonus precision along with extra power to make them more nukey save your traits for more crippling of the enemy and less power where it isnt needed also this requires you drop both damaging wells then very quickly switch into DS even if you arent in a good position to life siphon which is honestly a waste of a DS cooldown if you cant life siphon
while you cant rez in it lich form and plague both provide stability for their entire durations and plaque provides the highest toughness bonus in the entire game. so you cant rez in them but they are both insanely long stability and one offers defensive bonuses and the other jumps your power and precision to insane levels. dont complain just because your class has different perks than other classes
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRUQRBHRhG2IHN102SjRNc4moWok6IgeODgZI6OIEKBA-T1REABI8iCWS53J7Pwm+HAOqCIq+jWKBDAcAMchLchL8wDP81Xf91Xf9Ge4hHe4hLFwo6qA-w is most damage physically possible on a necro subbing dagger/horn for staff will provide a little more aoe power but limit your single target clean up skills
Is the build I run using an axe over staff provides you the option to use both warhorn and dagger offhands or in some scenarios dagger/focus skills in addition axe 1 has vuln axe 2 has enough burst to drop a thief from half to dead and axe 3 has aoe cripple and retal on top of decent damage. additionally now wells give your melee some additional protection to keep your frontline standing so that you can remain standing while well of darkness gives you both chill and blindness on your enemies which on top of the well of corruption stripping boons and creating conditions to burn the enemy warriors condition removals your creating an enemy team that physically cannot fight back now drop a well of suffering to end their suffering use dagger offhand 5 to push some weakness in on them to reduce their outgoing damage and dagger offhand 4 to clean off your conditions while putting a few more on the enemy team this also now has a chill effect in addition to its blindness thx to the trait change. now that the enemy is crippled and unable to attack move in to use axe 3 to remove another boon cripple them and give you your retal. now your in clean up mode the enemy zerg is just flat out done pop shroud use 5 to start shackles then use 4 to start ripping their health away by the time that channel is over the binding from 5 should come into place drop shroud and use axe 2 to kill whoever you want finished off since they cant move. then pick the closest target and use dagger 3 to immobilize then dagger 2 to deal damage while you close in then dagger 1 to finish the job.
remember to spam F to collect all your loot bags
this build might look impossibly squishy but the enemy gets so absolutely crippled that only getting singled out by a thief that evaded all of your skills will be enough to drop you.
Its no secret that the dev team here is amazing and have some of the best funding, but what about actual expansions? things like classes and races? As much fun as we have taking full advantage of your practically daily events can we get a more permanent addition to the game? The community here is ripe and the game is in full adulthood. I think its time to consider moving forward with the games development even if we have to put a pause on our events.
now this is something we can agree on it was a mistake not to check his server or how long he has played necro. My build is too specialized to fight bronze tier battles. I wouldnt dare run this build vs anything gold and i would have to go more CC to handle silver. as a community as a whole that should have been the first information we got from him. and tbh ascii wellomancer is good but it isn’t as effective in bronze tier because people build to counter condition and wellomancers because they used to terrorize the battlefield.
I would be a fool for building to face jade quarry when im facing henge of denvri the way they build and zerg is completely different i left gold tier servers because of Q times. The fact is vs servers in bronze tier this kitten works im sorry you need 1600 toughness to survive the thousand man march in gold tiers down in the bronze its a 50man march at its high time you dont need toughness you need burst with a small amount of CC to stop their opening strikes. battles in bronze are decided in the first 10 seconds of contact a good player in this domain builds to handle that. So yes vs the hammer train this class would shatter but vs the zerg it shatters formations. understanding the differences between your enemies is important if i treated anvil rock like i did jade i would never die thats very true they dont have enough players to put out enough damage to drop a 1600 toughness necro not to mention they dont have as many good commanders so once i shatter their formation it stays broken. in gold tier if a formation got shattered by a single necro that necro would be hacking because each well can only hit 5 players. and if you want to know why im in a bad bronze teir server its because the challenge of fighting 20v50 amuses me as someone playing a game the amusement factor is the reason i continue to play. I dont play or not play based on if my team wins i play or quit based on my personal performance and this has forced me to use builds that are far from standard and use a playstyle other than paint the ground red. I am so sorry yall are still sticking around the gold tier servers where your impact in the zerg is just another circle on the ground.
I see I’ll probably be wasting my time even responding but I’ll give it a shot. In your link you have 2 superior sigils of strength on 1 weapon set, just sayin. Also to clear this up mix/max game? if that was the case why would you waste stat points to be “overkill” in fact you are wasting 4 crit chance so you are not min/maxing. You do understand getting over ~50% crit chance on gear is wasting stats? Also if you don’t rely on DS for damage, why are you wasting 2 traits on life blast?
You can say what you want but I highly doubt you are part of any 20 man zerg pushing a 50 man zerg. I bet you spend most of you time on the defensive, drop your wells and pretend you’re a thief on the out skirts. I’ll tell you this, NO GvG or major WvW guild would even consider this build because its bad. You may think you are good with it and thats fine but sadly your toughness alone tells me that this is not a “meta” build at all. You are a glass cannon that hits like a wet noodle compared to a real glass cannon, the power stat dictates how much damage you are going to get from your crit damage and you are nerfing your self by putting so much into crit chance.
How are you a mobile necro? You have no stun breaks, your heal is a well (stationary), no stability out side on Lich form…AND running chilling darkness for blinds/chill and no plague form? You know making a “meta” build take more then picking stuff that looks and sound cool?
Also I should ask, what do you do when you get your 25 stacks? What sigils do you use in there place or do you still with 2 stacking sigils on one weapon set?
TBH dude your build is not a “meta” build, it is NOT min/max by any means, I would not recommend anyone wasting time and effort on this setup…
oh im sorry if the two daggers sigils got swapped on the build creator that completely invalidates the actual build. once you see where they actually are one perception one might on each set you will see the stability on dps but no you are so kitten happy for power you dont see the 77% bonus crit damage which given 100% crit chance thats significantly higher than the 25ish% i would gain from cutting my crit rate down to 50% where i would be losing the consistant 3 stacks of might and the effectiveness of critical damage bonuses. crits win games bro why dont you run a build before you say its kitten i have run every necro build out there from MM to epidemic to condiwell to that kittenty burn build everyone is wanting to play this week. none of them i repeat none of them hit harder in a zerg than this build. if that extra 4% crit chance bothers you fine switch a couple pieces of gear to beserker i have it there so i have the extra 4% chance before i get my stacks of perception and during the time i dont have fury so no its not really wasted. yes i put a couple points into DS for the purpose of dealing some damage to runners and if you want to know why i use chilling darkness think of well of darkness with a chill on it its pretty kitten effective at making an enemy zerg’s opening attacks miss and have longer CD which those tend to be the heaviest hits they have. so think about your zerg too not just your precious toughness if you want tanky build a guardian or go play pve WvW necros are for blinds cripples weakness chills and damage with a few applying insane bleeds to force players to keep cleanses on their utility bar to keep other skills off their bar. your defense is passive mine is active you understand how that works? i stay alive by forcing the enemy to miss and glance you stay alive by stacking stats in wasteful locations. min-max doesnt mean perfect glass cannon it means maximizing effectiveness in one area while minimizing effectiveness in another you assume the only two areas are offense and defense you cant be a theory crafter until you understand what the game designers intended for each class. i maximize my zerg effectiveness while minimizing my roaming effectiveness. you seem to think meta is being invited to play in the #1 pvp guild on your server. Meta is being the most effective on your server period with or without a guild.until you run this build for 200 hours dont assume its as kittenty as that thing you made and called a build
With ~900 toughness I would not recommend the setup if you want to go anywhere near a zerg. Even then while roaming, 74% crit is unnecessary due to you gaining fury on DS and your power is quite low for having glass cannon defensive stats.
EDIT also your sigil of strength shares a cooldown so having 2 on 1 weapon set is a waste.
Your toxic oil is a waste for condi duration since you gain nothing from your conditions, considering your toughness I doubt you can be in a fight long enough to make use of the duration. Also your condi damage being at 300 means your damage from it is pointless.
Late Edit: You only have 1 condi clear on a 18s CD which also requires the attack to be successful. Well of blood is far to stationary for a setup of such little defense and should really only be taken over consume conditions if you have ritual mastery and even then its questionable.
like i said it requires skill to handle i use it vs 50 man zergs on a daily basis while im in a 20 man zerg our wins are consistent and i honestly dont need toughness a good necro blinds chills and cripples their enemy to mitigate the damage dealt by the enemy instead of mitigating the incoming damage. also i dont have 2 mights on one weapon set its one on each toxic oil condition duration is for blinds chills and cripples not bleeds or poisons. and well of blood if for the zerg not me focus on running for a zerg as opposed to running in a zerg. with fury and max stacks of perception i am at 104% just a tad overkill but with all the crit damage bonuses i have extra crit hits harder than extra power so i will take overkill. i am a mobile necro who doesnt rely on DS for damage or survival i use it as a tagger to lay some damage on everything around me after i shattered the enemy formation with my wells. then crippled them with my aoe weapon skills. Welcome to the min-max game time to learn meta bro
i am going to look at this from a WvW perspective only since that is the only game mode i care for. minion master necros are countered by everything even mobs counter your kitten reroll. conditions we counter thiefs ele and rangers but are countered by mesmer warrior and guardian. well necro that focus on power and crits counter guardians and warriors and are the most effective way to break an enemy zerg formation but they are squishy enough that thiefs can assassinate them mesmers laugh at them and rangers take pot shots as usual ( a good axe or gs ranger can smash your face in if they can get close to you tho) i personally am partial to the well necro because even tho it has the most weaknesses and the least survivability i notice my zerg does a lot lot better if i can well smash the enemy front lines and follow up with axe/dagger and dagger/warhorn aoe skills i just cant roam but atleast guardians and warriors dont simply remove my damage by using condition removing skills. honestly those are the two classes we need to focus the most on because nobody else other than the rare master d/d ele can take them out the way we can
skill>build>warrior>everything else thats all there is too it
It’s like ANet telling us: “For god’s sake just reroll a guard or warrior already”.
Somewhat agree.
It’s mostly nerfing conditions in PvP while our power specs in PvE still remain hugely less effective to other classes in dps and team utility. Why would anyone ever pick a necro over a warrior in tougher 5 man content? Jeez.
because WvW and also power builds are actually getting slightly more effective with this imo as a theory crafter im not going to explain what they are doing to make me more effective on a necro but i definitely have no plans to leave my necro behind now
This build requires a decent amount of skill but it can solo camps in under a minute and smashes formations and has the CC necessary to prevent a warrior from getting inside the walls or escaping your damage is straight out instead of condition so those pesky condition removers wont do your enemies any good. Your damage at lv 80 in the full exotics is comparable to a superior arrow cart
ele is more usefull to the user mesmer is the most usefull class in the game for the zerg so personal vs greater good both are in short supply in most servers since a majority of players play either warrior or guardian
I was in WvW one day and someone asked me to join them in a dungeon WTF is that gw2 actually intends for you to do something other than WvW? is that why my server only has like 30 people across the WvW map? If those game modes are taking my pugs away im going to be really angry
devonas rest we are consistently in 2nd or 3rd place with the first place server just smacking us yet if you join the servers main zerg you will have a blast they always get their objective and they do really really well in a skirmish
Err…where did I mention a necro in my post…
did you just look at the build itself without reading how to use it? you use it in a party full of necro to give your aoe classes the venoms the thief himself is powerless the effect is to magnify the effect of 4 necro or warriors nothing more nothing less its not for roaming its not for special ops its not for pve its not for mists its for WvW zerg vs zerg action
Thanks for the replies. My laptop is still about 1 week in repairs so in that time I try to gather as much information about Thief.
I was thinking of going with Sword and Dagger as primary weaponset & for backup dual pistols or shortbow. That way I could damage my opponent from range before closing in on melee range. Is there any good advice you people can give ? Is there any weapons or weaponsets I should avoid using or is everything usable ? Or should I have double daggers as second weaponset ?
unless you plan to be a perma stealth everything is usable
imo it has to be playable esp for a venom share build. venom share means u r a supporter and for a thief with not that high of a sustainability that means u should have ur ways of making urself invis and maybe stay in stealth to fullfill ur supporter role. that said i would go for dp + pd and wouldnt rely on heal urself with venoms.
yes venom share is only effective in two situations an organized zerg and using thiefs guild as your elite and venom sharing with those two thiefs. the prior of those two has explanation and build here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-venom-support/first#post3249958
thief is a funny class there are a million ways to play it but they all lead to one of two ends the primary is the standard damage thief done with any weapon choice your little heart desires its sole purpose is to hit hard and quick to kill a specific enemy really really fast. the second is the infinite survival path this uses a lot of utilizes they can go for infinitive stealth (which is what is getting nerfed not as bad as people claim tho there are traps tricks dodges near infinite initiative roles this build is really really annoying to fight and you will get a lot of laughs but not necessarily a lot of pvp or wvw kills there are also a few builds that fall in neither of these two categories such as the support venom https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-venom-support/first#post3249958
and roamer builds and a few tanky thiefs are running around its very versatile in its build but not very versatile in its role. i personally tho i can play it the only thing i run on my thief is the venom build for WvW and an assassination build for mists which i only run when there is someone in the zerg on my server already running my necro build which isn’t very often due to it being well not a condition necro “gasp”
improvisation is random with 20% success to charge venom so its depends if you like 36 seconds for sure or not get lucky and w8 for 45 seconds
no its 100% i tested it there was a bug up until recently where devour venom and drake venom being on CD would prevent it from working all together but that was fixed within 24 hours of me reporting it if all 4 venoms are on CD as they should be and you use improv they will instantly come off guaranteed
all about 30% – 40%
- reroll a warri or another class 20%- 30%
- quit game 5%- 10%
im ok with a few people quiting the game but we really cant handle them all rerolling to warrior because you know thats where they will go its the easy mistake friendly version of the thief that has a valid place in all game modes as opposed to the mists and pve (non instance) places where thiefs are actually welcome i honestly feel bad for the class as a necro i know im OP and i know a good thief is the only way to to stop me in WvW tho their ability to stealth isnt really OP its incredibly annoying when they are in the keep you just captured but that is its only real use other than roaming and camp stealing i would accept the thiefs in my guild not being able to stealth as they do now with an open heart if they gained damage reduced when taking damage from multiple sources or gave them increased range on short bow and some decent targetable aoe utility so they could do something inside a zerg vs zerg battle as it is now my thief will still get leveled to 80 next but only for the support venom build i see no point playing any other role in WvW on the thief
The funny thing is…a Warrior Berzerker stance will counter your two grandmaster traits. LOL…wait this isn’t funny.
if even one of those necros in the thiefs party are running a build similar to what i run on my necro http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQUQRBHRhG2IkWlemmoGDfiA6x7rlzieUshtMqCrD-jECBoiFRjmiIgUGRORqIasFOFRjVXDT5iIq2grIa1SBwuuK-w i DARE the warrior to take an offensive stance and once his stance is over and the thief reapplies venoms if that warrior is even still standing he will be roflstomped that second wave of venoms is what will really make the build not the first impact
I used a build almost as your a while back in spvp, not very good 1v1, unless i have thieves guild out of cd to share the venons, but in team fights it just owns… imobilize to everyones attack is fuking awesome and i was using d/p not s/d.
Fun build no doubt
theives guild…… why did i not think of that that would be unstoppable in a duel
did some changes to your build
also can be roamer just change to shadow rejuvenation and some utilities
the trick is to use venum after the first burst when all the condition clear skills where used and then burst with your team
yah you can roam with it but you might as well tweak some traits to go for defense instead of venoms but your changes are pretty illogical why get rid of improvisation for a 20% venom CD reduction stealth CD is 35 seconds while venom is normaly 45 this trait puts venom CD at 36 seconds a second longer than if you just used stealth but with my version at the start of the fight you get to use venom twice in a row once to give your team the advantage in the offensive burst and force all the condition removal skills to be used and then once to reapply all the conditions they removed the first time. the other two changes you made are personal and would work just as well as what i had those really are effected by play style. as for the tainted shackle skill suggestion on the necro i personally recommend blinding well with chilling darkness trait it wont bring out the extra damage stacks of torment but it will further debilitate the enemy zerg reducing their damage to almost zero. which given a few strong offensive warriors and a single good offensive necro (which could be the same necro that drops the blinding well if they are built for well of suffering damage and axe skills)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYmKN3aS0E/5EC3DLEqeKvCkl2jbqBjJA
This is an unconventional build for thiefs but it maximizes the group effectiveness of the class in a WvW setting. This build is best utilized by inviting 4 well necros to your party to give them priority with the buffs their Wells will ensure that no enemy takes two hits from Basilisk venom since that does not appear to stack duration. with this build you give your 4 party members + 1 random player 8 stacks of might about 1600 healing the first hit 1200 healing the 2nd 800 for the 3rd and 4th hit and 400 healing for the 5th and 6th hit since these will all hit at once when the necro drops his well the first round of buff wont do much good in the healing due to them being at full HP still but the second and later rounds will heal for near full HP if they remain within range for the buff. These benefits are all nice but the real power from the buff comes from the core of the venoms Skale venom gives 13 seconds of 1 stack of vulnerability (ok so not great) and then 6.5 seconds of torment Devourer venom immobilizes for 2.5 seconds Spider venom is 7.75 seconds of poison and 5.25 seconds of weakness and basilisk venom is 1.5 seconds of stun.
now a skilled team good at running with this theif would use these to push straight into the enemy in a tight cluster knowing these debuffs on top of their normal well damage and debuffs would disable a good portion of the enemy team as soon as the first well is dropped the theif would steal from an enemy in the front with his increased steal range which resets all the venoms. the theif would then reapply all the venoms again giving healing which would now be needed and another 8 stacks of might allowing for them to use any weapon skill aoe they have equipped or a well they left in reserve for the second round of venom.
as for gear you would choose typically choose healing vit tough if you were invested in this build or remain in the gear for your standard build if you choose not to invest in this
note this build also works well partying with greatsword/hammer warriors. it also remains effective if you choose not to party with specific players/classes it simply loses its overkill status.