Guild Wars 2

Akrasia.5469:

Maybe the problem with necros, especially Condimancers is that we have the wrong conditions to suit our class. Imagine we swapped much of our bleed stacking for torment stacking? It’s a condition that would do massive damage to kiters and thus help with our lack of mobility.

1. Staff #1 could get a few seconds of torment. nothing too big, just 2 or 3 seconds and see how it turns out.

2. Scepter #2 could be converted to torment.

3.Life blast should get a stack of torment (or bleeding) by default. longer duration or two stacks when closer than 600.

Akrasia

Also I’ve suggested before that Dhuumfire should have a stack of torment added to it for each hit.

I dont like the idea of putting two different conditions into this trait. either buff the burning or convert it to torment entirely.

Also, a trait that lets torment deal extra damage when movement-skills are used would be great.

ArchonWing.9480:

I always seem to come in here and find something else that’s unbelievably bad has happened. And that’s sort of why I haven’t touched necro much since the specialization patch.

But this is the trend for necro balance. X being op if A, B, C is taken so that’s taken for granted when nerfs happen to X, screwing over builds that do not use A, B, and C.

‘unbelievably bad’ sums up the balancing process pretty well.

Chilling darkness nerf isnt as kittened as the whole Dumbfire disaster, but it comes close.

sunnypsyop.3025:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

meow one twenty.4376:

2 MM’s just throw an Engi at them for the AoE Moa that destroys their whole build.

It does turn hilarious when the Necro dodges the thrown Elixer X and is now a Moa Master. The minions retain their actives when Moa’d, so the Golem can still Charge and the bone minions can still explode.

This part needs to be fixed.

Lel. THIS part?

If anything, the part where transformations destroy all summons on necro needs to be fixed.

Capicorp.1537:

Allow necromancers to swap weapons while in Shroud.

Was in the game. got bugged/nerfed out.

Make necromancers able to change shrouds when they swap from GS to other weapons and vice versa.
Have separate cooldowns for shroud skills.

1.Shrouds arent tied to different weapons, but specialisations.
2.kitten no

ArchonWing.9480:

Why does chilling darkness have a cd? When did this happen?

anet thought it’s too OP with well of darkness, plague, bitter chill and all the chill-related stuff that comes at some day with the reaper. so they made sure noone ever uses it again

Muchacho.2390:

Why would you take dolyak runes though? Unless they got a buff, i am not aware of, they should still be a bad rune set.

even worse because of (of course) death shroud.

maybe OP thought they work while in shroud?

Dont really like this suggestion.

Self hurt is an important part of corruptions and simply negating that part is pretty lame. There must be another way to make Master of corruption worth it.

Atherakias suggestion sounds good tho. Something similar to spectral mastery or banshee’s wail, extended duration of the effects, might work too.

most Corruptions still need a buff on default tho.

they couldve done the sane thing for once and declared this bug to be intended.

but we just cant have nice things.

apparently it’s now part of the necromancer’s theme to not have ANY decent heal

Too much stuff

/and 15 charrs

nekretaal.6485:

How does Chilling Darkness Work now?

(1) Chilling darkness procs an explosion similar to sigil of fire that blinds and chills?

Or

(2) The first hit of an AoE blind will also chill, meaning that the first hit of plague and well of darkness will chill everyone it hits, but dagger 4 will only chill the first enemy it hits.

Both suck. Neither makes sense unless the class is suddenly goings get a lot more access to blind (from blasts or whatever)

havent tried it out yet, but from the wording i understand it works like (2).

If more than one person is hit by a blind at the same time, by the same skill, they all are blinded before it goes on cooldown.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-28-2015/first#post5326068

Necromancer

Signet of Vampirism: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to heal for more than its listed value.
Chilling Darkness: This trait now activates on all targets that are blinded by a single area-of-effect blinding strike before it goes on cooldown.
Spinal Shivers: Removed an incorrect unblockable skill fact from this skill. While this skill does remove aegis before striking, it is not unblockable.
Unholy Martyr: Reduced life-force generation from 10% to 7% when transferring a condition.
Corruptions: Self-applied, nondamaging conditions from these skills no longer have their durations increased by condition duration stats.

What do you think?

It’s nice that they made Chilling Darkness slightly less awful.

Spinal shivers change is sad. not that it was used all that much anyway, with that cast time. Could anyone already test if this affects chill of death aswell?

The corruptions change looks really random. Why? Why only nondamaging conditions? This is not going to help corruptions and Master of Corruption at all. Effects are still too weak for the self hurt.

Akrasia.5469:

Would love a hex that damages all teleporters in an area. It could be more of a well or mark that did massive damage to anyone leaving the circle so all the kiters would be affective.

But hexes are cast directly on an enemy. if it’s a well, it’s not really a hex.

I think this could fit torment pretty well, assuming necro gets some more of it.
As a trait, for example:
“Torment deal 4 times its damage whenever the target uses a movement skill”

Ragion.2831:

Theres going to be an ICD, im pretty sure of that one, the question is how long. I would like to say 1-3 but they will probably over do it and put it at 5.

Yup. we just cant have anything nice. Ever.

Vortok

And just remind that numbers are not final.

So you really believe Anet would take a second look at what theyre throwing out to us necros? they’d rather buff Elementalist some more before it comes to that.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Elxdark.9702:

wut I’m still hunting mesmers and even easier than pre-patch.

The only ones that I hate are those infinite pu stealthed s/t kittens.

Thief complaining about perma stealth? Woah, that’s trippy.

guess it’s a l2p issue :^)

Superior Sigil of Frailty-10s icd to apply some vulnerabilty. terrible. This should give a 30% chance to apply vulnerability on critical with no cooldown.

uhm, the DURATION is 10 seconds. ICD is 2 seconds. unless theres something bugged about it.

Sagat.3285:

It can’t be simply gain 10% LF on respawn what if you already have some? A boost only at the beginning of the match would help but it’s just a band-aid the issue is necro being weak with 0 LF.

as i said, let it slowly degenerate if you have more.

doesnt have to be one exact number, but narrowing down the percentage to start with (like 20%-80%) would be a good start.

Archaon.9524:

nope there would be like if warriors started with no adrenaline…

oh wait…wars actually start with no adrenaline

ds is like war adrenaline or mesmer clones

if you are out of combat you should lose it

/thread

didnt know warriors have half of their defense tied to their adrenaline bar.

if it regenerates/degenerates to 20-30%, that would be fair i think

Tim.6450:

Shoud did not offer anything new in regards of defense

yes they did. scaling life force generation. It’s kinda new since Anet destroyed spectral armor and spectral walk in that regard.

@zenith: thats because the numbers are kitten. obviously ideally the shouts would be as viable against a single person as against more enemies. still, i think the idea is a good one. at least for things like the heal shout “chilled to the bone” or “Rise!”

Then we see the ele shouts which do the same amount no matter how many targets they hit

why is, of all things, this seen as something negative? we finally have some more (defensive) stuff that scales with the number of enemies. thats one of the few positive things about our shouts.

yeah, it’s ridiculous in comparison.

necromancer’s dev(s) is way too cautious or lazy when it comes to changes, apparently always afraid to make things a little bit too OP and therefore makes it always underpowered, just to be on the safe side.

meanwhile, the ele devs: ‘kitten balance, let’s stuff in even more of this and that, instant, with low cooldown! Lets buff everything to infinity!"

nekretaal.6485:

Anyways, damaging shouts should have cast time… Otherwise you could use the shouts at the same time that you are damaging with your weapon.

does it have to be a cast time tho? something like a 1sec. cooldown to all other shouts could work too. that you can shout multiple things at the same time didnt make much sense to begin with.

nearlight.3064:

I also find it ironic how you’re jealous that the ele’s are getting more support when the Ele forums are upset and feel like they already have enough support.

I don’t really have a point here, just pointing out how different communities have different attitudes that are perplexing.

isnt that pretty much the same attitude? the opinion that elementalists dont need more support/boonspam? that other classes could need it more?

Tommyknocker.6089:

but honestly any class than can kite us will always win.

so…we’re good against other necros?

jakalofnaar.1702:

I’m still annoyed that they think a short duration chill and a couple seconds of stability is grounds for such an enormous cast time AND ridiculous cooldown.

Compare it to Guardians “Feel My Wrath”, dear God…Quickness AND Fury to ALL party members on a 30 second cooldown?!

Related, but does it really take 2 seconds to shout “Chilled to the Bone”? Way to break the immersion Anet…

I wonder if the shouts will actually match the cast time.

“Chilled to the booooooooone”

Muchacho.2390:

Mhh i dont think the reaper shouts would be bad if the numbers were right. Too bad they are not…

I only now realised just how pathetic the reaper shouts are. Up to 1.5s to 2 s cast time? Lol.

And “You are all weaklings!” must be the lamest sounding shout ever.

Salamander.2504:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Nor does food. Only siphoning traits and Signet of Vampirism.

And to clarify, ^ means only signet of vampirism on active (not passive).

it’s kinda surprising that the active actually works. in the announcement they said “lifesteal from blood magic”.

yes, engineer and ele always lacked weapon swap.

why? because they have kits and 4 attunements

Any insight on the Chilling Darkness ICD?

I dont think theres any insight to be had. That nerf looks like nothing more than a random crapshoot without any thought.

why are they so kitten scared of necromancers? other professions are allowed to be at the top of game modes for months and years but if theres even the slightest possibility of necromancers not being at the bottom, they immediately nerf some random thing to kitten. i just dont get it.

At the very least give it an ICD per target.

this is so kittening kittened

the trait was already barely taken. mostly just for well of darkness and plague. now? kittening useless.

was it really too hard for them to think about it for 5 seconds and give it a ICD per target?

Dyrk.8092:

I actually agree with the nerf, because by itself the skill is just too good at stacking bleeds for non-condi builds. However, think that to balance out the nerf condition-mancers should have gotten other sources of bleeds buffed so they didn’t loose anything, and only power/hybrid builds were punished (on purpose it seems)

bleeds from pwoer/hybrid specs were a problem? does something like a hybrid necromancer even exist at the moment?

Theyre already nerfing the base damage of conditions (and at low amounts of condition damage), so even if the conditions of those specs might have been a problem, thats already taken care of.

I dont like the nerf to Barbed at all. the damage you got out of precision as a conditionmancer was already pretty bad. if anything, they shouldve buffed the bleed-on-crit.

Abbehemoth.2471:

Why did you ever think Necros would become some kind of support?
Other classes fill that role, no..?

because unconventional types of support were always part of the necromancer. and healing just happens to fit blood magic very well.

are you an idiot or something? one of those people who thinks necro should only be about summoning skellingtons?

Lupanic.6502:

please no. Reduce the number of onCrit procs. The last thing Guild Wars needs is more and more powerful sigil and runes

a lot of classes already have small on-crit procs for bleed and theyre completely fine.

i think what Powerbottom suggests would be closer to that than air/fire sigils. nothing big, just a decent DPS increase that scales with your precision.

The problem is that this isnt enough incentive for condition builds to waste stats on precision, even with sigils of torment or earth.

- Give each classes themselves better condition-based on-crit procs (would most likely be easiest to balance and maybe the smartest choice).

i like this one the most, since it’s already a thing, just too weak. also, condition builds should require ferocity.

I of course like the concept, and also think that the self-inflicted conditions should stay.

To make them worth it, the effects of the corruptions should be made way more powerful.

An elite specialisation focussed on sacrifice and things would be great, but i dont see why corruptions should lose their self hurt cause of that.

And in cases like CPC, where the self weakness may be too crippling, maybe change the self inflicted condition to something else, like torment or bleed.

Same goes for epidemic. The vulnerability is not noticeable at all and should rather be changed aswell.

Siva Mira.3546:

As for SoV, it hard to say it will work since it is the current general rule that all Utility is turn off during DS/RS. Well unless they are willing to change this rule to some extend.

but minions currently also work while in DS. while signet passives are disabled.

seems to me that there actually isnt much of a general rule.

All it effectively does is reduce each packet of incoming damage by 342. This is NOTHING.

dont forget the internal cooldown.

Balance:
As often mentioned, the lack of balance and the glacial pace at which balance patches are released is pretty bad for PvP. In other games, like DotA2, you can see adjustments to heroes/skills within days. In GW2, you’re happy if they manage to do something in less than a couple of months.
It’s also kind of boring if all you ever see are the same classes and builds all the time.

Viewing experience:
In my opinion, one of GW2’s pvp’s biggest issues is that it’s just not fun to watch. I tried it a couple of times on twitch and most of the time, all you can see are a couple of rat midgets jumping all over the place and covering each other in spell effects. Eventually one or some of them will die or be forced to retreat, but i cant make out what play/crucial skill actually lost/won the fight.
In DotA2 for example, it is way easier to see if a well timed ultimate or disable just saved the day and turned the fight around.
I dont know how to fix this, honestly. It’s very likely that it cant be fixed at all cause it’s tied to the combat system and its speed. The combat system is amazing, but just not made for spectating. As long as you closely watch a battle between 2-3 people, whose builds you know, it’s fine. Anything beyond that is too much to keep an eye on.

How fun to watch it is might be the biggest reason. Look at Hearth of the Stone. A pretty simple game and i would say except for actually building a deck, theres very little skill involved. And even if it is, the amount of skill required pales in comparison to all the kittening RNG involved. But it’s entertaining to watch thats why it has quite a lot of viewers.

Yazkin.6179:

My biggest question is; Do they scale with anything yet?

thankfully, they dont. not really, i mean.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Anet would rather put a bandaid on a broken arm, than actually attempt to fix the problem.

Anet would rather tear off your arm than fix it. And then chop off one of your legs aswell, because of reasons.

One of the most immediate things you’ll notice when you take charge of the reaper in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™ is that the greatsword attacks are slow. In fact, most of the reaper’s attacks have a fairly sizeable cast time.

Do they mean ‘slow compared to the default necromancer’s skills’? or slow compared to others?

I’d be fine with that concept, actually, if more classes would play by it. But so far im afraid the pay off just wont be big enough for how easy it is to evade those skills. Just like it is with the default necromancer.

KaosNinja.4967:

i am a little. any other game in history i make a character called Necromancer, i get a guy who summons limitless minions and uses them to his fullest advantage. gw2 i get a guy who’s 90% condi focused, summons at most 5 underpowered cannon fodder, and 1 decently strong minion with the AI of a rock.

oh come the kitten on, it’s this old type of ‘where are my skellingtons’-whine thread again?

i thjought we’ve been over this. there must be at least half a dozen threads about that already. summoning is only a smallpart of being a necromancer. And has always been; in gw1, gw2 and in a couple of other games aswell. Diablo 2 for example. Or baldurs gate.

Shiki.7148:

Well we get skilltype and name today. Which means those that said they’d quit because of a bad name or getting spirits etc. would leave today…and maybe come back tomorrow if the PoI shows it isn’t as bad as it sounds. Like DH, everyone went ragemode on traps at first too, now they just rage about the name mostly X)

Ah, okay.
I dont think we’ll get something as lame as dragon hunter. There ve been quite a few really good name suggestions here on the forum. It’s pretty hard to mess that up (however, anet is pretty good in messing things, that usually cant be messed up, up).

today? huh, i thought friday is the day. it’s still thursday here.

@rising dusk: how exactly does that work? did they ask you to gather stuff about the necros? or do you just pick a topic that you deem interesting and send them a summary of it?

Knighthonor.4061:

Is everybody having necromancer dreams now?

Dreams? No. But i try not to be too disappointed when the next specialisation preview comes.

MY GOSH WE ARE GOING TO GET BLINK AND INVIS!!!!!

You know what they say about 5 exclamation marks?

1.All healing

2.Life Blast: 100% projectile finisher (it has all the other traits of a projectile. and as part of our special class skills, 100% is justified.). Slightly faster attack speed (tone down the dmg per hit, if you must), 1 stack of bleed (nothing too massive. just so that condimancers can at least somewhat keep up their stacks while in DS. actually, why not torment?)

3.Doom: fine as it is.

4.Dark Path: split it into 2 skills:

First one marks the target for five seconds. This subskill only checks at the beginning of the cast animation if the enemy is in range. after that, it doesnt matter anymore, it will track down the target. Freezes the enemy
Second part: can be activated to jump to the target, freeze and bleed it.

5.Life transfer: i would add some condition to this aswell. Since DS is the same for every type of necro, all of its skills should be more or less equally useful to condition and power specs.

6.Tainted shackles: I’d change it to something similar to Dota 2’s Dream Coil. It no longer immobilises enemies at the end of the duration. Instead, it will immobilise anyone who tries to leave the 600 AoE around the necromancer during the duration. This way it seems more effective in my opinion.

7.The amount of life force a necromancer starts with needs to be narrowed down. 0% or 100% can make a big difference. For example, if it’s less than 20%, it will slowly build up to 20% out of combat. If it’s greater than 80%, it will slowly degenerate to 80%.
Either that or you pick one single value, like 40% or something.

8.The ‘LF per hit’ mechanic on spectral skills no longer has a general ICD, but one for each enemy. Like Lotus poison.

9.While better Siphoning (with enough aoe-hit attacks), healing in DS and the spectral skill’s ‘LF when hit’ might already provide a lot of sustain against multiple opponents, it might not be enough. If thats the case, then the maximum amount of life force you lose each second should be capped. Dunno what a good value for that might be. 20%?

10.Utility skills: im not so sure about this one. Cant say if we really should have access to them or not. If we get utilities in DS, it would be cool if they have additional effects in there. While a special effect for every single skill might be too much, there could be a special effect for each utility type. For example ‘whenever a spectral skill is activated in DS, get (half) a second of blur’.

11.Where to take power away: With all this being implemented, necromancer and death shroud could turn out way too powerful. If it needs to be nerfed then, i think the DS HP pool should be looked at.

Of course a lot of these things like the special effects for utilities or the capped LF loss could make for some interesting traits aswell.

Druss.6917:

• You can regen health while in DS but only through regen boon and ally heals. In other words you cannot throw a well of blood then pop DS and sit in it for full heal. Siphon heals are allowed while in DS.

Considering you cant use heal skills in DS anyway, this means that everythiing heals except well of blood and sigils/runes.
Seems like two pointless exceptions to make.

Well of Blood isnt that powerful and i doubt it would suddenly become broken beyond recovery if it works in DS. I say allow it, then watch if it turns out too strong. Adjusting the numbers is easy enough.

What about ‘Deathshroud master(er)’?

zapv.8051:

Vuln doesn’t do the exact same thing. I actually think it should reduce armor by a percent now that I think about it, some pve bosses have a ton of toughness, and it should be stronger on higher toughness targets.

They both lower armor. Anet is not going to have two condititons side by side that do that. and if you make it percentage based it IS exactly like vulnerability.

The other point of that debuff would be for pve where it is really easy to get 25 stacks of vuln. Unique buffs and debuffs make a lot of classes in pve, and having one or two would be really good for dungeon necro viability.

Thats more of a general problem of vulnerability: Most groups dont have to do anything for it, cause it’s included in so many weapon skill sets. No need to go out of oyur way to cause it; Vulnerability just happens. If anything, THAT should be changed.

Cogbyrn.7283:

The bitter jealousy is getting real in this thread.

Jealous of one of the best classes that has consistently been at the top of every game mode since release? Of course.

MAN.9046:

wanna know what kittens me off? there is a dev on the guard forums asking them for suggestions for changes to virtues or tomes or something like that… Eventhough guards are in a good state. We’re arguably the worst off and well, no one gives half a kitten to ask us what we think. Seems like we’re being left to die off in silence lol.

well, Guardian is anet’s favourite. i thought thats obvious

I really like the self applied conditions and hope they stay aswell. Just gives some risk to using the skills.
If the skills are deemed to weak for the self hurt, then the positive effects should be buffed, not the self applied conditions removed.

The suggestions are good, but:
Blood is power: i think the might can be increased
CPC: just turn it to vulnerability. anet is not going to implement something like -X Armor when Vulnerability already exists. I’d also change the self inflicted condition to bleed or torment, since a skill that makes enemies vulnerable to physical attacks and gimps your own physical attacks at the same time is a bit contradicting.

1. Scaling 1vX defenses: some mechanics for that already existed: lifesteal scales with targets hit and spectral armor/walk used to scale with the numbers of enemies until anet ruined it. revert that kitten-up, buff lifesteal, let it go through DS and that might already be a big step in the right direction.
2. Group support (buffs, debuffs, etc.): biggest issue for dungeons. in pvp, we could also use some more in the form of boonhate.
3. Field use (fields, combos, auras): shouldnt take that much work. some finishers here and there, a few more interesting fields and thats it.
4. Counters (hard and soft CC, evades, and anti-CC like stab, transfers, reflects, etc.): if they dont want necros to jump and dodge around all the time then thats fine. but we should get some of the other stuff.
5. Healing (self, group, siphons)
6. Minion AI: ive pretty much given up on anet when it comes to being capable of making a proper AI
7. Condition damage: just revert the nerfs to mark of blood, terror, stop kittening up weakening shroud and see how that goes

The extra description is nice but pretty much everything in ‘Counter’ can be seen as parts of either group support or 1vX defense

rager.4963:

I can’t wait to see the new necromancer skill, we are going to get a whole new vampire type skills that make us sparkle. Can’t wait to glitter it up on the field.

vampire stuff that wont work half the time. Cause Anet is still too kittening kittened to make up their mind and allow us to heal in Death Shroud.

Our new skills and mechanics will probably be as kitten, boring and made without care as our new trait/specialisation system.