Guild Wars 2

I would like to see that the living story content will alter/change permanently the environments in the world.

For example,
– the dungeon that was added in the Flame and Frost could remain in the world as a mini dungeon where people can go and explore with a Skill point communing challenge possibly as a reminder.
– the instance where we fought Canah in Southsun Cove could have become a simple cave afterwords with a PoI inside for future explorers ( the same thing could happen to the Dead End Bar in Divinity Reach)

These permanent changes will become a reminder for those who witnessed what happened and a new explorable place for those who were not there.

The reason people are asking all sorts of things from other MMOs to be added to GW2 is that they like GW2 for some reason and they don’t like the other MMO for the same reason so they want the best part of their mmos to become a part of GW2 so GW2will be perfect for them.
This tells a lot about all other MMOs

Sirendor.1394:

Sorry but living story is just a grind. Dragon bash showed that once again… grinding pinatas and firework. This is rather disappointing.

Festivals are always a grind or you think they should just give you a hat for being 10 min in the game watching the fireworks?

What’s your speqs to play at max graphics?

Please don’t fix it Let us have some more free time jking

Kilic Bela.4680:

please feeeeeed the log in hamsters

+1000 LOLs

The same error here. Fort Aspenwood server

You will enjoy GW2 as long as you make your own motivations for playing. it is still quest based like other games, but they come in the form of heart quests. You will also find other objectives, like Vistas and Points of Interest.Basically, you will find theese in every zone of the game.
You will also have the personal story quest which is the green quest that appears on the top right of the screen and will never go away until you have beaten the whole story.
Of course there will be dungeons unlocked after lvl 30 but as long as the game has no LFG tool you will need to rely on an external website for finding groups (gw2lfg.com)
There is no need to hurry up for getting lvl 80 (max level) because you won’t feel different than all the way till there. The game has the ability to feel “difficult” in every zone because of the down leveling system.
So, the advice is to enjoy exploration and not rushing to get max level like in other games.
You can’t change your profession or race once you have picked them, but as the leveling isn’t too long (approximately 1h/level depending on what activities you do) you can have multiple characters of different professions/races
You will encounter zones with a lot of players and others where the game feels like a single player. but the motivation to continue can only come from yourself. The more you resist the feeling of single player MMO, the better will be for you in the future when you will experience the vast possibilities of this game
There is also the PvP, but as I am not a fun of PvP in any game, I will let others explain this to you.

Lets explain a bit how I see it work.

Every character in account who has been created previously from the date the event happened will have the living story written in its personal story window.
This means that if a character has been made after one living story event, will not have the previous events written

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

It’d be nice if we could have our secondary weapon set show on our body while the other is in use, and vice-versa.

IE: Greatsword is in use, but the sword/shield is still on the body. Do your weapon swap and now the greatsword is on the back while the sword/shield are in use.

I support this, but when you don’t use, it will show only one like it is now: the last one used

Yes, This is really good idea. And simple to implement.

Everyone talks about “no end-game” content, but no one ever suggests anything that would be fun for more then 1 month.

The living story is your end-game. You can do it with a lvl 80 or a lvl 2 but is different every 3-4 weeks.
This is the most innovative end-game then any other dungeon-farming ideas

ZachariahtheBullfrog.5302:

After you’ve created your character, and finished the pre-game thing. Then, if you don’t like it, you have to delete the character, then restart all over. Plus you don’t get to test the racial skills, and see if they work well with the class you chose.

Say " Thank God" you dont have to wait 24h to have your character deleted like in other MMOs

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

I don’t think the living story dungeons should stay but instead we should get a new dungeon that uses the ideas that has been tested in living stories.

+1

I have to say I really like the style of this Living Story temporary content. A new players that comes now in the game has the same amount of content that a player from 2 months ago has. The only difference is that the older player has experienced more temporary content then the new player.

I will make a simple resume of what happened till now:
"we have started to see some refugees coming in Shiverpeaks and Ascalan zones. We all wondered “What is going on?” and later we saw those anthenas frustrating the ears of everyone. "Man, this was horrible. What is going on?
And we saw the refugees going even to Lions Arch. The threat raised up and we finally see the Molten Alliance between Charrs and Dredges
We have met two heroes, one norn one charr and we help them defeat the bad guys
After thet we went to southsun cove to see thet the new bad guys, Consortium, have turned the refugees into slaves due to a contract they signed and we found a guy who wanted to free them. We helped the Lionguars restore the freedom of those refugees and we went back to Lions Arch to celebrate the Dragon bash Festival.
We had fun with fireworks and games but later at the ending festivities, a crime has happened. We started to investigate the matter and we saw a new detective coming into the scene… the story continues..

How awesome can this be? Totally amazing.
Imagine, if they would have made this content permanent, all our characters would have to do it in order to advance the story. I remember how awful the things went in GW1 when they added the stories in Tyria after completing the initial story. Those peace keepers came and you couldnt get rid of them until you finished the whole War in Kryta" thing. And you had to do this will ALL characters.

Thank you A-Net for this Living Story. It is the best things that could happen with the story in this game.

They said the mounts are not fitting the current state of the game world because it wasn’t designed for them but they never said they will not put them in one way or another.

I would like this in PvE too

jheryn.8390:

GW1 lasted seven years before they introduced their next phase. I would say they were doing something right. I think they know for themselves what is best for their company for short term and long term better than either one of us.

There are no lotteries in GW1 cash-shop and they never were. GW2 is run by different people than GW1. They just kept two names: A-net and Guild Wars to lure in the playes from GW1. Everything else is pure Nexon style.

I liked very much the song you created for this Dragon Festival. It is really disappointing you haven’t included the song into the game for this festival. I would have imagined that every 2h when the fireworks start, a bunch of LA’s npcs will come and sing this song during the event. That would have made the atmosphere more enjoyable while watching the Fireworks.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-origins-of-the-dragon-bash-theme-song/

Hopefully, for the next time you make a song for a festival, just include it in there for the festival time. It will make the game a lot better

This game is made of a single zone multiplied +30 times. The same PoI, Vistas, Hearts, events (escorting, fetching, killing) and in addition to this, you are downleveled
It is more then grind, it is repeatable as eating the same food. Even the foes don’t vary much from the base models in starter zones.
No matter if the number next to my bar says lvl 15 or 65 or 80. I don’t feel my character more hero then a starter character.

Should I mention that most achievements (except the story related) are the definition of grinding?

And if you think i dont know what grinding is, well, “doing the same thing over and over = grinding”

They just take advantage of gambling addicts. Addiction is a disses. They make profit out of weak minded people. These random boxes are in each and every MMO out there. The difference is that in some MMOs the loot is guaranteed after a specific number (ex 24 boxes) while others like GW2 there is no guarantee,
This game is not about gear stats but about gear looks. They make it so for the people not to complain the game is a Pay to Win but they created the philosophy of a Pay to Shine game. No wonder 2 of the 3 A-Net founders left the company.
The game is just going in the wrong direction compared to GW1

Bryzy.2719:

One of the most pointless suggestions i’ve seen on here. In fact, i would request NOT to put this into the game since it would be more difficult to determine end game gear.

“End game gear”. This sounds very familiar. Hmmm, I wonder why

If the event skins gained from those boxes would look bad thing could be considered ok, But the more we go the more we witness the implementation of “legendary” skins into the boxes instead of the game itself. Molten weapons, Southsun cove weapons and now the Dragon weapons look a lot better then the legendaries.
I see only 2 reasons behind these lotteries:
gambling addicts spend more money then regular players and
selling skins directly at a lower price will make people buy them with in-game gold so a-net will not earn money

Getting rid of those numbers. Let them be hidden from player’s view. I don’t mind having them a program internal procedure, but I don’t want to see it right in your face.
Besides, we are getting skill points even after lvl 80. So as they don’t let us be lvl 1523, they can hide all the levels in the first place

Gnat.9405:

So you’re suggesting that players come out of the box with every item available to them?

This honestly feels like a troll post. Unfortuneatly you have to actually play the game to, well, play the game.

I am not suggesting what you said. I just want to get rid of those numbers that appear of everything. It feels so outdated.

Gnat.9405:

You either took 9 months to get to 80 or don’t know what grind is. You can’t grind to 80 in this game. Completing maps is not grinding.

Actually it took me 7 months, but this is not the point. I feel forced to do map exploration just to get the level requirement for my next story mission.
I got cookies in this dragon bash festival that says "required lvl 60 or lvl 80 to use.
The same thing happened with southsun cove. I couldn’t eat the pie unless I was lvl 65
This is the only game that forces you to do all the heart quests to have a better chances to level up faster.

Everything that has a number attached to it as level or level requirement or tier level gives the feeling you need to grind to that level.
As long as the scaling down system makes every zone challenging and there is no super advantage to be high level character in a low level zone, this no level system will fit perfectly.

I know it will take long to re design all the numbers into something else, but please consider it for the future and possibly with the next paid expansion you will introduce it to the game.
Please, try to make a new system that will eliminate the grinding mentality.

melonLord.8712:

So then lets beg for an LFG tool (one of the fixes that I was refering to that I think they should focus on before they start talking about adding mounts) . I back that 120%. Its also possible for them to make the instance have a soloable version so that you dont have to deal with finding a group if you don’t want to (also I thought your guild did “speed runs” so that you didn’t have to grind).

We dont do “speed runs” for dungeons. We do a sort of speed run from LA to Orr to unlock the WPs so you can teleport there when they are not contested if you want to buy some armor assuming you are lvl 80. Basically we are opening the fog for new characters.
We are a very small group of friends with multiple characters who’s ultimate goal is to have all professions lvl 80. We are casual gamers with very limited play time so most of the time – especially during the week days we rarely play together. Only the weekends are different.

and I dont want a mount for speed, for aerial combat or anything useful.
The WP system is really boring seeing a “loading screen”. We dont even have a “pre-designed mount flight” from WP to WP like in AION or WoW.
When I made a thread about that people mocked the idea too.

I wish to see the world from the sky like we see the Vista cutscenes. I am not skipping these because they are really good ones

Webba.3071:

Wolfheart.1938:

Incredibly hard to pull off properly, would rather see them fix & expand on underwater combat first.

Agree with you completely, just daydreaming. Underwater combat is already mostly implemented, they should really do something with that first.

If they will open Janthir Bay up in NW, those could fit for at least 3 fully underwater zones

melonLord.8712:

Ronah.2869:

Every thread about mounts in this forum ends up to be a discussion on “why not add them” instead of" Let’s see how we can best implement them" so it is always a lost cause.

What I’m trying to get across to you is that flying mounts in the open world is not the way to do things. I (and, again many others) have already said that flying in an instance would be alright as that doesn’t run the risk of hurting the game as a whole.

Instead of dedicating their play time in full for GW2 they will have to divide between multiple games. End result: GW2 has low population in the majority of zones because the land traveling and soloing group events is more annoying then playing another kill 10 rats games

This is involves so many baseless assumptions that I’m not even going to touch this.

Instance = dungeon like zones. I am not a fan of dungeons, especially if there is no LFG tool – and please don’t send me to that grouping site.
I have only done the story mode in all of them for the sake of the story
(I like the story and I would play more stories but I am forced to grind between story levels and that is another major flaw of this game compared to GW1)

Empty zones = this is the feeling this game gives to me It is not an assumption, it is a fact I have seen myself. Of course it may depend on the server and timeline but still, I have not encountered more than 3-10 people in any zone between 50-80 while I was hunting my map completion star with my lvl 80.

melonLord.8712:

Ronah.2869:

I see there is no reason to argue with you because you always have the “right” answer. You have the ultimate truth in this matter so why argue? Just to fill up this thread? No thank you.

I’m not even sure what this is supposed to mean. Yes I have an opinion on the matter that I think is the most logical but doesn’t everyone in this thread? Dont you?

Every thread about mounts in this forum ends up to be a discussion on “why not add them” instead of" Let’s see how we can best implement them" so it is always a lost cause. People are tired of arguing with the ney sayers and those who want mounts will always find other games to play, but if A-Net is not interested to keep them in their game, is their own business.
Instead of dedicating their play time in full for GW2 they will have to divide between multiple games. End result: GW2 has low population in the majority of zones because the land traveling and soloing group events is more annoying then playing another kill 10 rats games

I would like check boxes (like in achievements’ tabs) so I can sell all items with one click not separately

The game is just one zone repeated over and over for +30 times with some variations of the landscapes and a lot less variation on the foes or quests (hearts, PoIs, Vistas etc) The down scaling system makes this repetitiveness even more clearer.

I see there is no reason to argue with you because you always have the “right” answer. You have the ultimate truth in this matter so why argue? Just to fill up this thread? No thank you.

Seras.5702:

So you can already see how being able to avoid travel can trivialize content. Why exacerbate it? WPs have a cost and if you want to pay 1s50c every time you port that’s your choice, but mounts would essentially be free once acquired. Not a gold sink but a purchased item like gear. People will flit around skipping content, fast gathering nodes, drastically dropping mat prices on the TP, not helping others they come across because they will never actually come across anyone. Now this is all with flying mounts of course.

For land mounts you’re gaining nothing except a speed boost, essentially negating the importance of out-of-combat swiftness. Which means various builds will change since players won’t have to trait for it anymore, or bring that speed boost signet anymore.

Using an WP takes 1-3 seconds while flying from “Troll to Queen to Oak” will take a lot longer. So, those who will use flying mounts, will have their own disadvantage using one is either for the events in the sky, either because of convenience (free travel as you say except if they add mount food)
Low princes on things in TP is always good because more people will afford them. Besides, crafting in this game is just an auxiliary minigame – an one of the lowest quality, imo, You just do a bunch of clicks to obtain things you want to sell because nothing you get in crafting is way better then looted items.
So, if a ore is 1 copper or 1 gold, it is better to be 1 copper so other players may even try to do some crafting because if they are not speed levelers, they are not doing it otherwise.

In our guild we have a so called “speed running team” We take players with swiftness from starter zone to orr if they have enough karma immediately they reached lvl 80 so they will get exotic armor and then do what they like in the game. most of them are max leveled in starter zone. It takes us about 30-45 min to run from LA to Orr skipping all events even if we are on the ground.
Skipping event due to flying mounts is nothing but an excuse while the game content is already skipped big time.
in GW1 Factions campaign was beaten in 15h and no one complained it is too short. people were happy they reached the end of the story to be able to do other things they like.

Seras.5702:

Mounts trivialize content. They make it easy to run right by other players instead of getting involved in DEs. They make out-of-combat swiftness discussions moot. They completely change the dynamics of WvW. And flying mounts trivialize everything! Jumping puzzles, vistas, exploration, gathering…just no.

I love that when I encounter another player & I’m mid-DE or even just mid-battle, they jump in and help. That’s cool. That would all go away with mounts.

I am playing in the queensdale most of the time. Do you know what I see there?
“Troll up” “Wasp Queen up” Oak up" “SB up” etc.
You know what happens? people teleport from WP to WP.
There is nobody doing Moa Trainer Kapa or Escorting events other then Pack Bull and Barthol
So, WPs make people skip more content then a flying mount would do.
Besides, flying mounts will not grief your events because they won’t count for event scaling unless the player is on the ground actively participating in the event.
There is no difference if some player is just up in the sky watching how you fight a mob and one that is away from keyboard. The a.kitten. one might get credit for the vent tho while the flying one won;t

I haven’t play WoW so I dont know how the flying mounts work in there, but I play this Dragon Prophet and it feels amazing to fly over the lands and get in the middle of the fights where ever you see it fit.
Because the rest of the game is a generic “kill 10 rats” with “kill steal” people are not interested if other comes because they “don’t want people around” while GW2 is different and people will not skip events, because they are the ones that give exp and not just grinding foes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz5DCLtGW0Q

If they would add flying foes and aerial events then the flying will be as interesting as the underwater: a different layer of game events
How many people skip the underwater events now?
So why the underwater is different then the sky high?

ok, i understand you are against flying mounts but please, if they will add flying mounts in this game and aerial combat and flying jets and helicopters and so on, do me a favor and come to the forum and admit that others were right suggesting this, because as it seems now, this type of suggestion, no matter how good or well thought and design will still have the nay sayers

And I don’t need to find another game, I have guns, grenades, and even a chainsaw so the game is good enough for my taste. Just missing the flying.

melonLord.8712:

I dont think that there is a reasonable way. Theres a reason that you dont have any smaller dragon enemies (before you say otherwise, drakes are just large lizards). Dragons are built up to be a big deal in GW2 all of a sudden making them something as common as a horse would be ridiculous. If they do add mounts, there are plenty of other alternatives (asura mechs alone open up lots of possibilities) but dragons would be the silliest option.

A-Net just gave the answer that at first, the dragons were not exactly bad guys

A Brief History of Dragons

The Tyrian opinion of dragons has evolved over the centuries. Those who played the original Guild Wars will recall that Glint, the dragon of the Crystal Desert, was ultimately benevolent. Kuunavang, the Canthan dragon, wasn’t so bad either; once cleansed of her affliction, Kuunavang aided heroes in their fight against Shiro. Canthans actually honored these creatures for centuries with their annual Dragon Festival.

The events of The Eye of the North changed everything by revealing the true nature of dragons. The Great Destroyer, a general of the Elder Dragon Primordus, wreaked terrible havoc in the depths of Tyria. Since then, the Elder Dragons have awakened to threaten all of Tyria. Once revered, dragons are now generally viewed as destruction and death incarnate. The Captain’s Council has realized that the old Dragon Festival is no longer appropriate, so Dragon Bash is about unifying Tyria to destroy the Elder Dragons.

Nothing can stop them from creating good dragons back
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/dragon-bashers-welcome/

sorudo.9054:

exactly, exploring would turn in to a flying mess, everyone takes a flying mount and explore everywhere without even one hint of a challenge.

Excuse me, but did I mention everyone gets a mount at lvl 1? I think not. Did you actually read my last post?
Ground mounts will ruin the game more because they are just “another NPC” in there similar to ranger pets. Flying mounts will not be on the ground as long as you are not riding them. Mounted combat will not apply to flying mounts landed on the ground.

So, to put it simple:
- flying mounts will make the WP system non usable while mounted (=if you are on a mount you cant teleport until you dismount.
foes on the ground may attack you if you are at a low altitude, you can get thrown/dragged off the mount too
- flying mounts will open up opportunities to add foes in the sky and a full set of events and hearts in one existing zone without filling up the land.
- staying on a flying mount above the ground will not give you credit for the event happening in the ground as well as not count you as an active player for event scaling system. (=so you don’t do events, you get nothing)
doing events and hearts on the ground implies you are not using a flying mount.
- flying on the mount at different altitudes will offer a varied spectator view for the players and will not replace the WP system. It will be a sort of optional choise for traveling within a zone because, unless you use the zone “doors” (portals) you will still need to use the WP to get to another zone.
- Flying over WP, PoIs will not unlock them. The only thing you can unlock with a mount will be the fog.
- Flying mounts will be rewarded to players for completing certain goals, *maybe at lvl 80) so players will have enough time to explore the map on the ground.

Oh, and to the other replier. I like guns in any MMO. Too bad there aren’t many.
And I would even like a jetpack or flying jet boots as flying mounts

Player Character.9467:

Flying mounts would require the elimination of the exiting zoning system and with a flying mount you can just fly over everything to get to anywhere without actually doing the things on the ground. Waypoints do require you actually get there first.

If by zoning system you mean “opening the map” and not actually the zones as separate instances than I wont see a problem to open the map flying on a mount.
You still need to go closer to a PoI to open it. Flying mounts can be attacked (crippled) by foes on the ground. You could even be thrown off the mount too.

But the issue with the WPs its really a good observation. To maintain the necessity to get to a WP on foot and not by flying, these WP can have a sort of sound wave that will prevent the mounts to get closer in a certain range. Imagine something similar to the Molten alliance audio scanners. It is plausible that these teleportation stones emit a disturbing noise heard by the mounts.
If you fly over a WP at the restricted distance or higher they won’t be unlocked

Developing the idea further, even at first there won’t be any aerial combat, they can add this feature later altogether with flying foes other then wasps, harpies or risen birds. In this way, flying through the air with a mount will be as dangerous as walking on foot. This could solve to an extent the problem with the jumping puzzles or vistas too: flying your way to the top will be more difficult then doing the jumping puzzle.

The problem with “how early can a character get a flying mount” I would suggest to have them unlocked only after completing certain objectives but this is a totally new subject to discuss, so first we should focus on the mechanics.

For those wanting a ground mount I can say that flying mounts can be both ground and flying.

melonLord.8712:

I’m not sure why you were so intent on dragons lol.

Well, because the GW2 is about dragons and it fits it’s logo too

sorudo.9054:

flying mounts are bad because it ruins immensity of the world, if you can just see from above how big the game is then there is no point in making any mmo look big.
ground mounts are good because even with just a 20% or 50% speed buff it adds immensity in the game, it gives you something to make the world look more alive and be a part of the world just a bit more.

I dont think that flying makes the world smaller. At contrary. If you see the world from above you see how impressive it is when you get closer.
And the height of the flight can be controlled by the game makers so you will not fly so high that you.
I am playing that dragon game and I can tell you the size of a zone in that map isn’t bigger than a GW2 zone.

People worry that adding flying mounts to GW2 will make people skip the content. Do they ruin it more then the WP system? I think not
It doesn’t matter if they have speed boosts of 170% because nothing can compete with teleportation speed. you will still need to use teleportation to go to a far away zone. (an adjacent one can be accessed thru the portal anyway)

As long as there is no mounted combat we can consider this flying as a spectator mode for PvE which wont give you any experience nor will count your presence for event scaling.
Summoning a flying mount during combat won’t be allowed so if you are in an event you wont be able to escape using your flying mount as you can’t use the teleportation.
Flying mounts wont be available since the start but they can be a reward for lvl 80 characters.
Different flying mount skins would be available in the cash shop and through events and festivals like the upcoming Dragon Bash

Here is a type of “dragon” that will not make the GW2 ones ridiculous and as you can see, the zones have “walls” around them like in GW2

Lodovicus.1562:

Just don’t expect others to jump for joy as their own aesthetic is affected by your ineptitude.

players, probably won’t, but considering all your efforts to make the suggestion look bad, it may give Anet a hint that there are players like you would buy repair kits if they implement it A new catch up for those who don’t like spending money black lion chest keys.
I personally go to a repair merchant whenever I am close to one. Considering that I am spending most of my game-time in Queensdale, there are plenty of them

Nurvus.2891:

Another idea is slowly advancing towards various areas – both Cantha and Elona – while introducing a new area to GW2.

It allows ANet to build a momentum, towards a epic fights on each continent, rather than making each continent a different Tier.

+1. Yes, I like if they would create a new set of events opening one small zone in the new continent and then having a sort of NPC that tell you can’t pass if you don’t have a permit. And you can only buy that permit from gem store with a certain amount of gems.
They will not sell a full game but a simple permit to access the new continent.
If they want to sell it a a boxed copy, then they can just sell a box with a key like for the gemcards.
You shouldn’t install anything just download as you go.

It really doesn’t matter if we call them flying lizards or dragons, or they would be anything else – see my first comment on this thread from 13 days ago – the point is, people would like to fly and that clip i posted was only as an example of how interesting that would be.
The lore perspective it is not player’s responsibility but A-Net’s. Some part of the player-base wants mounts and if they want to provide them, they will figure out how to fit it in the lore.
At first, people were skeptic about adding guns into GW2 because they were not in GW1, but now it seems people feel comfortable to them and don’t even bother.
A-Net has mixed together SF scenario – asura, old England style – humans, gladiator/barbarian – charr, elf/nature style – sylvari, superhero style – norn in a very good way so if they want they can fit perfectly any mount in the game.
It is just a matter of will

Lodovicus.1562:

That extra detail might appeal to some people but personally if I have worked hard to collect a great looking set of armour I don’t want my aesthetic ruined because I died through someone elses incompetence.

You can still repair it, right? you even have a mobile repair kit if you want to look shinny and sparkly all the time.
Oh, I like how you consider yourlself blameless while everyone else has caused you to fail

How about aesthetics? You fight all your way through monsters and your armor is still shining like new ?

melonLord.8712:

I would really like for you to look up where the Elder Dragons fit in GW2 lore. They’re much more of a force of nature than just “bad guys” and your explanation doesnt fit into their story.

My explanation is a simple idea. if you are more into the lore you could come up with a better one but as long as I feel you from your answer that you are against any mounts, I wouldn’t even expected a different “justification”

Just look at this clip from another game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb5UMdGLplE
If they add flying mounts, they really need to take some inspiration from there

the lore behind “the good dragons”?
Well, the ones terrorizing Tyria were expelled from the dragon kingdom becasue they wanted to conquer it. We have good humans (seraph) and bad humans (bandits, pirates), We have good charr and we have bad charr, we have good asurans and we have bad asurans… why not have good dragons while we have bad dragons?

Besides, in this way they can make even more bad dragons and let Zaitan be just a mere rebel compared to the new ones