So:
You make a party.
An exploiter, jerk, and guy with stupid rules joins.
These three people vote to kick you, and they haven’t invested any time in the run, having just joined, so they may not care if the instance shuts down. They just don’t like you.
What now?
Then it’s likely at the beginning of the run and I have no time invested either. I really don’t think there are a high percentage of exploiters, jerks, and stupid rules people compared to those who aren’t. The chances of three of them landing in one group is probably not too terribly high. And I don’t sell dungeon runs so I’m not in the category that would likely have spots open up at the end all too often.
And if I did, then it’s one bad run. And they happen. Time to start a new group if I want or go off and do something else. After reporting.
I still don’t see why an exploiter should be immune from losing all progress but the honest players should not.
I’d be fine if dungeon leader kicked, instance closes but if dungeon leader leaves or disconnects, instance remains open.
Then while I would have to repeat the dungeon if I kicked the exploiter, the exploiter does too. Same with the jerk. Same with the person with the stupid rule.
But they don’t need immunity from being kicked. They shouldn’t get to keep their progress.
I would probably hate the builds and playstyle that OP chooses, but I do agree that there needs be a good way to enforce “party rules”, so that it is possible to have semi-organized PUG groups with specific criteria.
If you’re against the ability to specify party requirements, you’re probably a bad leech (i.e., you need others to carry you).
Maybe something like this could work:
- Have a clearly designated party leader role (i.e., someone opens party interface and ‘creates party’, they are now the leader of an 1-person party)
- Party leader can leave and dungeon instance will not disappear
- Party leader cannot be kicked at all
- Party leader can kick anyone, no other votes needed.
- Retain party chat logs after a player leaves party to make it easier to report obvious abuse (e.g., party leader kicks someone at end of dungeon before they can get reward, invites friend)
If you don’t like the rules someone made for their party, you are free to create you own; you will have the same authority, and you can make your party an “open” party.
So if I’m in a party of leader who has decided he wants to exploit the final boss of the fractal, I’m just supposed to leave and waste an hour of work to redo the fractal but the exploiter is allowed to keep his progress?
The guy who is literally violating the TOS gets the better end of the deal?
The guy who decides because he’s got immunity from kicking that he’s going to be a right jerk and hope that most stick with the group too long to want to leave on their own before they get fed up with his rudeness?
People who aren’t jerks and don’t exploit and don’t have stupid rules don’t need immunity from kicking. And by stupid rules I mean the immature kids who would be party leader to force people to dance or be kicked (The smart immature kid would wait until they were well into the dungeon to announce that under your system. He can’t be kicked and doesn’t need anyone else to confirm his kick), not the person sick and tired of hour long runs who has decided he wants to have a party of all meta experienced players.
ANet, while it doesn’t have an issue with dungeon selling doesn’t fully support it. All transactions there are considered at your own risk.
All ANet needs to do is to raise the number of votes to be kicked up to 3. Should reduce trolling a fair amount.
And you never answered my question earlier. What makes your dungeon groups so special that you shouldn’t be kicked because it’s your group, your rules, but when another group gets together to do group content and makes rules that you don’t like, it’s suddenly not ok for them to be immune to be kicked out of the leadership role?
I’d like to see the answer to that as well, because on the face of it, it looks like the answer would be, “If it’s me setting the rules, it’s OK, but not if it’s someone else.”
post in the correct topic and youl get your answer but that is dangeriously out of bounds for this thread, go find my other thread
No it’s not. Answer my question in this thread.
Your reason for this post is because you don’t like the rules TTS puts into place for their runs.
You want the numbers reduced so that it does not need a group like TTS to succeed. You want the event changed so that it can be done by random PUGs. The sheer numbers and the timer are why it requires the level of organization that it does. If you change that it doesn’t need the organization anymore. Meaning TTS has be effectively fired.
So my question fits the scope of this thread. Answer the question.
I think it’s fantastic that there are events that can’t be done by just any disorganized group of PUGs. There shouldn’t be a lot of these events, but there should always be a few things in the game that only appeal to a certain group, in the same that SAB has a diehard group of supporters (and is considered “meh” by the majority).
nobody is asking for the evne tto get easier, just to make it reasonable toa ttempt it, and they are PUGS that get in to the wurms, if u think the wum is actually “difficult” you are mistaken
And how is it not reasonable? I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people who are going to organize a run for Teq or Wurm to do things to ensure that most people in the area are wanting to do the event and willing to listen to and follow their instructions.
I don’t see a ton of posts in here going it fails often even when organized groups do it. It’s the content designed for organized groups. Not disorganized PUGs.
It’s part of ANet’s current answer to the we want raids crowd.
And you never answered my question earlier. What makes your dungeon groups so special that you shouldn’t be kicked because it’s your group, your rules, but when another group gets together to do group content and makes rules that you don’t like, it’s suddenly not ok for them to be immune to be kicked out of the leadership role?
No I like losing by 200,000 points in WvW too much… Oh no wait that’s not right…
Although this will never happen, I like the idea. A complete mixup could do wonders for balance. Regular WvW is a joke right now and even EoTM has balance issues when two of the top tier servers get put on one team and dominate it. Really getting a mix of players from all the servers onto all the teams is the only way to balance it.
Of course there are no systems in place to help groups get into the same team and having memebers of the same guild on different teams this would effectively destroy guild grouping for WvW.
Or really ramp up the claims of match fixing during tournaments. Red Team Guild B, had their Blue Team faction waste supply.
Did you mention that new email in any email that was sent from or sent to your old email address?
Full disclaimer: I’m pulling random numbers from thin air. My numbers do not represent actual drop rates or future drop rates.
Let’s say over the course of play I get 1000 drops.
100 are junk.
200 bag drops
75 raw item drops either (ore, wood, cloth, leather, food, etc. Crafting mats in other words, including things like ripped hide).
25 trinket/accessory/ring drops
300 weapon drops
300 armor drops, of those 100 are of each type.
That’s what it could be currently.
After the patch, they may raise your profession’s armor by say 50 out of 1000, but they could lower the junk drops by 50 out of 1000. The reduction doesn’t necessarily have to come from the other armor types.
They should have free choice security questions and answers. That way players can put in questions and answers that they are highly sure only they know.
Of you change your password or communicate with support you have to answer those questions.
Guild banks and vaults should have the option of having a password. One more thing a hacker would have to figure out. Especially since support can’t roll back guild banks.
And remember have unique passwords for anything critical. Emails used for resetting those critical sites’ passwords should also have unique passwoeds
i think this thread has helped me to come up with a solution, one that does not change the event AT ALL but alters how people get into it
what if we alter the LFG open world content tab to have clickable links that will teleport you to the event (and extract the wp cost) when it is time for a specific peice of open world content, this would be useful for the temples in orr aswell which are currently hard to know about
That doesn’t work for teq or wurm. You need massive amounts of coordination for those events. You can’t get that if everyone shows up right as teq or wurm right as they. You dorealize they are on a timer, right?
never said the buttons would pop up right as the boss did, it could be an hour early
With the megaserver, teq and wurm are on a set schedule for the normal runs. Wouldn’t solve your problem with TTS and other similar guilds.
Guilds themselves can start at least teq and guild started ones shouldn’t go to the off since guilds should be able to have a higher chance of getting their guild onto the map. Since it does take.guild currency to start one.
Though the idea itself isn’t a bad one. Put the world.bosses that run on timers into the leg a reasonable amount beforehand until a few minutes after the boss himself pops. The beforehand amount of time should vary from boss to boss. Teq needing more time than fire ele.
i think this thread has helped me to come up with a solution, one that does not change the event AT ALL but alters how people get into it
what if we alter the LFG open world content tab to have clickable links that will teleport you to the event (and extract the wp cost) when it is time for a specific peice of open world content, this would be useful for the temples in orr aswell which are currently hard to know about
That doesn’t work for teq or wurm. You need massive amounts of coordination for those events. You can’t get that if everyone shows up right as teq or wurm right as they. You dorealize they are on a timer, right?
Likely more noticeable at off times due to fewer people logging in and out at that time to see if there is an opening due to someone transferring off or server capacity being raised.
Short term, the supply on the TP will fall.
“may fall,” perhaps. We do not know the numbers on the drop rate adjustments yet.
If they increase the combined cloth drop rate for light armor wearers by the same amount that they reduce the combined cloth drop rates for non light armor wearers the supply remains the same.
Like I said, short term. As in immediately after the patch hits.
The speculators and the people who think the the drop rates are going to be super noticeable and they hate playing light armor classes will buy up the supply.
The speculators will sell once the price increases. The people who hate light armor classes will hold onto the silk keeping it out of the market.
The actual drop rates will affect what happens in the long term. If it’s truly not easily noticeable at level 80, then we likely won’t have a huge change in price. And nothing to go into a panic over.
But if the chances are noticeable, then who knows what it will do. That will come down to how many play light armor characters fairly regularly and what their demand is for cloth themselves vs those who play mostly just medium and heavy.
For all we know they left the overall chance for a heavy profession to get cloth the same. They just lowered the chance to get something else (hopefully junk) down to compensate. So that Heavy Henry, still gets the same number of light armor items as he did before the patch.
And that I don’t really have a problem with. Light professions need more cloth for ascended mats so it’s only fair they have a higher chance to get more cloth for free. So that their ratio of dropped vs bought mats for ascended gear equals out to the heavy and medium classes.
Short term: any noticeable change will cause demand to rise because 5/8 of the classes are getting fewer cloth drops and supply to fall as people buy what’s available before the price hike happens.
Not necessarily. The number of classes isnt as important to this as is the amount of cloth. Without knowing what the drop rate adjustments are we cannot say if the supply will go down or up.
There’s enough uncertainty that there will be speculators and people trying to get as much cloth as they can afford before prices rise due to the speculators. Silk prices rose right after ascended was released. Because supply had tanked due to people knowing it was going to take silk. The speculators bought it to resell at higher prices. Those who wanted to use it used it fairly quickly given the absurd amount of silk that was needed.
Prices will likely rise to some degree in the short term due to speculators even if there is no real change overall. Speculators will buy the supply down, let the low supply to high demand raise the price naturally and then unload their supply at the higher price. Just because of the perception of less cloth for medium and heavy classes and the chance at a big pay off.
Those who hate light armor classes will also likely buy some supply to put on store for future characters they make.
How long until this stabilizes is also unknown. Or whether the new equilibirum price will be higher or lower than it is currently. Higher means change was bad, lower means change was good overall.
If they’re going to reduce supply, I hope they at least reduce demand by changing silk weaving thread to use 50 silk instead of 100.
They are not going to reduce the supply. They will just make it that light armor classes gets more than heavy and medium classes.
Meaning if heavy gets 50 per hour, med gets 50 per hour, light gets 50 per hour
The change will make it so that heavy gets 40 , med gets 40, light gets 70 per hour.
Dont quote me on the exact numbers because i myself do not know the percentages.
However it is 100% clearly stated that light armors will now get more light armor scraps and the other 2 classes will get less.
Short term, the supply on the TP will fall. That’s what Pandaman was referring to. That if they were going to do a change that will in the short term lower supply, that they should lower the demand for it as well to help keep prices at the same level they are now. People will want to buy up the cloth that’s set to sell at the current price thinking that the price will go higher.
Who knows what the equilibrium price for cloth will settle after this change. It could be higher or it could be lower or it could be the same. We don’t have the numbers to say. But perception is reality. If there’s even a perceived increase, prices will likely be higher to some degree. The degree will depend on how much of a perceived increase there is.
Not only medium armor users. Medium and heavy armor users are gimping themselves if they choose to play the class they like.
There’s no compromise. It’s a straight slap in the face for heavy and medium armor users.
What are you thinking anet?! Why reduce the farming capabilities of heavy and medium armor classes and boost light armor classes?
Youre making a gap between classes here which is against your “play what you want” mission for the game.
Short term: any noticeable change will cause demand to rise because 5/8 of the classes are getting fewer cloth drops and supply to fall as people buy what’s available before the price hike happens.
Long term: Enough players likely at least enjoy light armor classes to a degree enough to make sure that supply will rise to a point where it could quite possibly fall in prices compared to today. Because eventually those players won’t need cloth and will sell it. And current medium and heavy armor classes will also not have a need for cloth. ANet may also have a note to review ascended recipes in 3 months to see what the long term effect is. If prices are too high still they may adjust the recipe. Or add in other ways to get cloth. Or both. Raise supply and/or lower demand.
Short term is easy to predict for anyone.
Long term is hard to predict unless you have numbers indicating current ratio of people who play light armor classes at least fairly regularly. Numbers ANet likely has. And we don’t know what other plans ANet has in store. There may be another change that’s being worked on that will fix the problem. But they can’t talk about it because it’s not right on top of it being released…
Im still not convinced of that. Its such a small increase as it makes little difference in the long run. You’d have to have a ridiculous amount of drops for it even to be considered an advantage. 1g over 430 gear drops isnt that much.
This is the part that has me scratching my head.
Development takes time and money. If these changes are not going to be noticed why spend the money to implement them ?
And why spend an entire blog post hyping them, if they’re inconsequential?
Exactly.
I am not upset about the proposed changes. I do not think we have enough information to have a strong opinion one way or the other at this point. I do have some concerns about how this will play out depending on what those details turn out to be, but thats about it at this point.
But.
Would it be worth mentioning to say that a specific skill has had its damage increased from 100 to 100.00000001 ? The change would be there, no one would ever notice it. It just seems odd.
But there is a chance that the chances scale with level. And that’s just fine. Starts off high and then slowly decreases. Not as potentially damaging as letting there be a noticeable change at level 80 to the economy, especially in the short term. Most people don’t need a huge assortment of alts and most aren’t likely to reroll too often except when huge changes are made (such as the April 15th trait change and the upcoming change to the leveling system and personal story).
The only ANet comment on the chances was directed towards a question asking if it affected level 80 characters. We only know that it’s “not easily noticeable” at level 80.
It could be a 0.05% chance at level 80, but a 60% chance at level 2. We don’t know.
Put your money where your mouth is then. You’re a really smart guy … why don’t you buy all the cloth you can before Sept 9th then sell it when demand goes up when people only farming with light armor classes?
Hahaha! Troll is troll! Why buy if you can get them directly from the source? Seriously you arguing with me making me think you know something about business and blurted out this statement! I fell for you trolling sir! Kudos! You made me belive you know something xD
Buy and sell stuffs when you can get them for free! Hahahahaja classic.
Time. Time has a different value to different people. Some people have less time to play than others. They are more likely to buy mats than someone with all the time in the world, if you ignore all other factors.
Some people don’t like farming and trusting the RNG system to give them good drops. So they buy.
And hey, if people will buy it, why shouldn’t I profit off of what I’m not using?
Hmmm let me try to explain this as simple as possible so you can understand.
Gimping med and heavy armors from farming silk scraps = lesser supply of scraps
Buffing light armor classes = additional supply of scrapsConclusion: still the same supplied scraps only that this time, lighr armor users gets the profit and is not distributed among the 3.
More people will roll light armor classes = more demand of scraps (light armors takes the most scraps per craft in case you dont know.)
More people using light armor classes = more supply of scraps
So it seems that this will only even out again because while more people get scraps, more people also need scraps for their light armors.
Here’s the coup de grace
There are still people who do not care about efficiency of their farming and still use heavy and med armor classes and they also need scraps for their armor = additional demand.
Read and understand carefully im sure it is a very simple explanation that even you will not have a hard time understanding it.
But it’s unfair to those who do not like to play light armor classes to have to farm longer for cloth or money to buy more off of the TP, or to roll a class they do not like. Just to gear up their preferred characters.
Yes, in the very long run, prices are probably likely to drop in cloth simply because those who need it most will get more of it from drops lowering overall demand.
But for a good while, until most players have geared out the most characters they want to gear out, prices will climb. As there are more classes that aren’t light armor classes than light armor classes. And the speculators are likely to go crazy.
However, it isn’t the prices that’s causing the issue. It’s the unfairness. Of the three armor mat types (cloth, ore, wood, and leather), cloth is the most profitable. By a long shot. It’s not fair to say that light armor types should have the highest income potential.
You can mine ore and chop wood. Leather is the only other thing that’s tied to drops. But there’s no huge demand for it, which is why there isn’t an uproar about that. The amount needed for ascended recipes is no where near the absurd levels it is for silk.
If they would add a way to gather cloth, it would greatly reduce the complaints. And maybe, just maybe, that’s part of the announcement coming with the Collecting and Trading preview.
Why is cloth and cloth armor worth more on the BLTP? Do they get dropped less frequently than heavy and medium armor or are there more light armor wearers?
Ascended armor recipes require an absurd amount of silk. Demand has been high enough vs supply.
Long term as long as no other recipes that require huge amounts of cloth come out, it will likely come down in prices as the cloth classes run out of their own personal need for cloth and can afford to sell it. But that’s a long ways off. Prices will likely initially rise due to the change. As supply will go down, but demand will likely increase slightly.
But the prices aren’t really what’s causing the issue.
The issue is that this change makes it more profitable to be certain classes over others. That those who do not like playing light armor classes will either have to farm longer, buy more cloth, or level up an alt that they do not enjoy playing at all than someone who does like light armor classes in order to get the silk needed to gear their other characters. THAT’s what’s causing the issue.
None of us have an issue with the change for under level 80.
So you want to make dungeon party members immune to kicks because it’s their group and their rules they shouldn’t be kicked.
Yet when you have issues with another type of party (zerg) organization in this game that does not have rules you like, you’re crying foul and that they should change their rules?
Does the party leader get to make the rules of their group or not Duke? You can’t have it both ways.
TTS is the leader of the party when it comes to doing Teq and Wurm when they organize it. Don’t like their rules? Quit their party and find or make your own with rules you like better.
All we know.is profession specific stuff is being raised. Maybe they dropped junk drops down some and increased chance of gear and weapon drops and then raised profession specific drops. So that out of x drops, you still get the same number of non-profession gear bit a higher number of profession gear. Because goodness know I get too much junk.
And is there really any veteran who hasn’t a lvl 80 of every class?
Yes
I should have also said that I, too, don’t have a level 80 of every class. I have 1. An elementalist. And even I’m against a noticeable change in drops at level 80. And I would stand to profit from it.
@Seera another reason why anet should not implement the smart looting system.
The only ones who are not against this new system are those who are rich an gets their gold reserve by buying gems and converting them.
Those who farms the hard way like the rest of us this wil surely sucks.
The only concrete thing we know is that at level 80, the difference is not easily noticeable.
We don’t know what that means, it could be pretty much negligible but they decided to leave a little higher chance for usable things since if you play one character more, you will likely want more gear for (or salvage materials related to) their profession. 0.5% increase in chance of getting profession related stuff is likely not easily noticeable.
We don’t know how noticeable the change is for a level 2. If it’s 0.5% as well, then why bother with the change?
But yes, something has to give if there is a noticeable change in drops. Even if it is adding a few silk spiders to the game to harvest. Or cotton plants. Or sheep to sheer. Or whatever you get gossamer from added.
And come up with some way to get leather that isn’t drop related to add in after leather prices come up after you come up with a way to make them profitable.
Poor medium classes with this change if it’s noticeable at level 80. They won’t get as much ore. They won’t get as much cloth (even less so than ore since you can at least mine ore). They’ll get more leather, but that’s already pretty much sitting at vender prices and practically worthless.
Maybe it’s even a good thing. Now you can influence your drops by choosing your character. I need more of this, ok, let’s use this class.
And is there really any veteran who hasn’t a lvl 80 of every class?
But what if someone doesn’t like any of the light armor classes? Should they be forced to play a class that they do not like to get the same rewards as someone who likes to play the light armor classes?
I’ve never understood why the price of certain materials is so much higher than the rest. I sell off all the silk I get because I get tons and tons of it already. I’ll never need anymore of it and it just keeps coming. It seems like everything I salvage turns into Silk. Who is so short on silk that they are spending 2 silver apiece and how are they short when it is so abundant?
Look up ascended recipes.
Full set of Light armor requires 32 Bolts of Damask.
A Bolt of Damask requires 1 Spool of Silk Weaving Thread or 32 total spools for a full set.
1 Spool of Silk Weaving Thread requires 100 Bolts of Silk. 3200 Bolts of silk for an entire set.
1 Bolt of Silk requires 3 Silk Scrap. 9600 Silk Scraps required to make a full set of Ascended Armor. For one character. For one build.
9600 Silk Scraps is 38 FULL STACKS of Silk Scraps with 100 extra.
Now imagine you have different builds that require different stats. That’s 19200 Silk Scraps. Or you don’t want to play shuffle the armor set between your two characters now that the ascended armor is account bound.
Medium class builds have it the best with only needing 7200 silk scraps. Heavy not far behind at 7500 silk scraps.
An ANET rep said it would not be a noticable difference.
Then it fails at its entire point of giving “appropriate” loot to each profession.
To be fair the rep said that at level 80 it wouldn’t be easily noticeable.
Who knows if they have lower levels be more noticeable or not.
I’m sure a lot of people really likes the change for character experience (including me), yet, there is always people to shout “ME ME ME I WANT FEATURE FOR ME ME ME ONLY, NO ONE ELSE GETS FEATURE BUT ONLY WHAT I WANT TO PLAY”. Get a grip and wait for the end of the feature patch before squeeking geez.
Thanks Stéphane for the clarifications.
But the teaser for the feature pack that released on the ANNIVERSARY of the game where more veterans who are taking breaks from the game will log in to see what the birthday gifts are should not have been an update geared mostly for new players.
Especially when the other updates have been geared for new players.
If these kinds of patches were released more often, we also wouldn’t have this issue. But it’s been six months since the last one. ANet shouldn’t leave veteran players hanging for over a year for major balance patches and new features.
ANet: We can handle Living Story updates and feature packs being put into the same patch.
Or heck, Week 1 – Living Story Patch, Week 2 – Feature Patch, Week 3 – Living Story Patch. If you don’t want patches to be too large.
They’d have to come up with a new weapon for that: the one handed staff. Otherwise an issue would arise for any profession that can currently wield staffs.
And I don’t have a problem with new weapons being added to the game.
If it buffs my cloth drops I’ll be very grateful! I mostly play light armour classes >_>
But that’s unfair to those who do not like to play the light armor classes.
All that has been said is that at level 80 the change is not noticeable. That does not mean the change is the same for level 2.
75% at level 2. And 0.05% at level 80.
How is it not fair? Compare the price of leather or metal ascended armor (full set) with a light armor set.
Because all classes should have an equal chance to get cloth and leather. Right now salvaging items is the only way to get cloth or leather when you don’t get the super rare cloth or leather in a bag drop. Metals can be mined.
Of precursor crafting come.out and it needs leather, will you cry foul because rangers can get more leather than you?
If it buffs my cloth drops I’ll be very grateful! I mostly play light armour classes >_>
But that’s unfair to those who do not like to play the light armor classes.
All that has been said is that at level 80 the change is not noticeable. That does not mean the change is the same for level 2.
75% at level 2. And 0.05% at level 80.
This is a topic, which I think, deserves an own CDI, I’d name the topic:
Ways to improve the Game’s Longevity in PvE
Topics that I think could get discussed then in there are:
- Renowm Heart Improvements/ Reputation Systems
- Order Missions/ Order Guilds and Daily Task/Achievement Improvements
- Dynamic Event Rewards
- Map Exploration/ Spreading out Region Achievements
- PvE Replayability Personal/Living Story
- Guild Mission Improvements and General Guild Improvements
- Engame Content. i.E. explorable Elite-Locations, like the Underworld
ect pp.
Way too generic of a CDI. Generic CDI’s too often have too many people talking about too many ideas for anyone to follow any of the subtopics. Especially if people post “Great Suggestion” or “Horrible Suggestion” but give no indication to which suggestion their post relates to.
Now, if the made a CDI subforum and made this session’s related to longevity and had ONE thread per bullet point, then I’d be game for it. But if they do the one thread for the entire CDI topic like they have in the past, a generic CDI topic won’t work.
Each of your bullet points is a better usage of an individual CDI if they use the format they’ve used in the past.
Isn’t the first personal story step actually to go do one of the hearts? That will be awkward if unlocked at level 10. Not to mention potentially problematic if you’ve already done all of the hearts the story step counts…
Unless it scales down with lvl. It would be a perfect solution.
That I wouldn’t have a problem with.
Higher chance at lower levels to get usable gear and then that chance lowers as you gain levels and have less of a need for the items to come via drops.
Does this mean that it will affect level 80s?
Yes it will but the change will not be easily noticeable.
Then what’s the point of the change?
If it’s not noticeable, then even those leveling up won’t notice that they’re getting more stuff they can use…
It’s figuring out the personal story that’s the issue. And Cultural Armor.
And the personal story part is now feasible to change with the Story Journal. Before something had to happen with the first Personal Story.
Doing a Race Change should permanently lock the Personal Story section. Then it adds in a Second Personal Story section. Which acts like Living Story Episodes that you unlock but don’t start. That you have to go in and start yourself. This pleases those who do not care about the personal story and those who do care.
If the cost of the race change is high enough, it should more than cover the loot that’s earned when redoing the story.
The only issue now is the cultural armor and how to handle it. Since some people will be wearing it.
What are your rules, Duke Nukem?
PUGs aren’t really the place for a huge set of rules and that may be what’s getting you kicked if you have too many or they are too complex.
Since that’s really what your true issue is. Getting kicked when it’s your group. And it’s obviously happened enough times and most likely not at the beginning of the run for you to be worried about this change.
If your rules are not venturing into the realm of breaking the rules, then yes, it is a jerk move that you got kicked. But too many trolls would abuse the party leader is immune function. Too many rule breakers would.
But if they kicked you early in the run, that’s all the better for you if you’re rules aren’t breaking ANet’s rules. Because only jerks kick someone else when it’s not their group. And you don’t really want to help a jerk, do you?
what my rules are is irrelivent im not even sure i have any
and your absolutly wrong about “people would abuse the immunity” we have it RIGHT NOW and it works fine, it is literally how things have been running for 2 years, so the only change is that the leader leaving no longer causes instance to close
Currently:
The true trolls don’t care if you own the instance and it will kick everyone out. They know a portion will go running to the forums to complain and ask for the change that is about to come.
The exploiter will be lead because he knows people don’t want to lose their progress and can use that as a form of blackmail. “I get to exploit or you get to lose all your progress.”
And if you aren’t getting kicked at the beginning of the run before it even starts, then it’s you. You come off as someone who makes it perfectly clear that you own the instance. So obviously you do things most PUG players don’t like to such a degree that people are willing to LOSE THEIR PROGRESS to get rid of you.
Which means if it isn’t your build, it’s your rules. Which is why I asked. You already stated you’re a bowbear, which is probably why you get kicked at the beginning of the runs by jerks. And you don’t want to run with them anyway. They did you a favor. But once the run starts, it’s you. Something about your personality or your rules is causing you to get kicked. And you obviously haven’t realized it. You’re biased towards your own personality (we’re all biased towards our own) so I can’t ask you about your personality. I can ask you about your rules. Maybe help you figure out what’s causing you to get kicked so often. Because you’re obviously so scared of getting kicked after this change is implemented. And there has to be a reason behind it. If you never to rarely get kicked, you’d likely not be this stuck on party leader immunity.
The change is coming, there’s not enough uproar over it to cause them to reverse their decision. Most seem in favor of it as long as the change to kicking is raised from 2 to 3. And that’s what ANet will likely try first. It’s a lot simpler than party leader immunity. And a lot less prone to being exploited by rule breakers (jerks and game exploiters).
If jerks and exploiters wouldn’t use their immunity from being kicked against the others in their party, I’d be all for it. But unfortunately, that’s not the case. I can’t let a decision that would let a game rule breaker force other players to either choose to lose upwards of an hour’s progress or profit off of them exploiting the dungeon. Or allow a jerk to be incredibly rude to someone in the middle of the run without being able to be kicked (if you’re being incredibly rude, you have earned the kick and a likely ban as I’m talking ban worthy levels of rudeness).
What are your rules, Duke Nukem?
PUGs aren’t really the place for a huge set of rules and that may be what’s getting you kicked if you have too many or they are too complex.
Since that’s really what your true issue is. Getting kicked when it’s your group. And it’s obviously happened enough times and most likely not at the beginning of the run for you to be worried about this change.
If your rules are not venturing into the realm of breaking the rules, then yes, it is a jerk move that you got kicked. But too many trolls would abuse the party leader is immune function. Too many rule breakers would.
But if they kicked you early in the run, that’s all the better for you if you’re rules aren’t breaking ANet’s rules. Because only jerks kick someone else when it’s not their group. And you don’t really want to help a jerk, do you?
if you made the group its your rules, it doesnt matter if those rules r unethical or amoral bcuz people can leave, if they dont wana carry you, if they feel better than you, then they joined the wrong party, they are overqualified for the party, but u cant be too bad a player for your own party! the party starter is the standard for which the party is judged and nobody else.
So I’m just supposed to sit back and let a party leader who wants to exploit the boss Fractal (Mai Trin, etc) and not kick them and invite in someone who won’t exploit?! When no one else but the party leader wants to exploit? And he made no notice at the beginning of the run that he was an exploiter? Should I have to give up an hour and a half of time just because I don’t want to profit from an exploit? Why should the exploiter get to profit and not me? When he’s the one breaking the rules?
Or someone who is really crossing a line on the rudeness in chat.
Party leaders shouldn’t be immune from kicking due to the few bad apples.
I died over 14 times on the fight (I didn’t count). My entire set of armor was destroyed. I didn’t find it too difficult. It’s a mid-season finale boss fight. Then I put on my clerics set of armor to talk with the leaders and companions XD
And honestly, those craving difficult content deserve a bone thrown to them just as much as those looking for easy face roll content.
The fight was doable solo on a glass cannon build even if you aren’t perfect. It will take dying a lot but it is doable.
They should say “I don’t know” only when it is part of this sentence:
“I don’t know, but I will look into it and get back to you or have someone more familiar with the system make an announcement.”
That’s a better response than ignoring a statement.
I like the idea of repeatable Hearts, especially if integrated as something simple like a daily/monthly achievement. I think 5 is too high for daily, though — 1 or 2 would be more reasonable.
Did you know that the game originally didn’t HAVE Hearts?
But players didn’t know where to go to find the events. So ANet put things to do to pass the time in areas were events tend to pop up. These are the Hearts. They are primarily there to slow your progress in an area down long enough for you to see an event occur. They put it towards map completion and gave rewards to it so that players would have incentive to slow down when they ran into a heart.
Uh… do you have a source on this? You must be talking about an extremely primitive prototype version, because even in early betas there were Hearts. In fact, there used to be over double the amount of Hearts that we have now.
Early Alpha versions didn’t have them. And it makes sense why they put them in. Players are so accustomed to quests leading them around in the world that they were lost without them.
It would be like being told to go a road trip across a country you’re unfamiliar with and being told you can’t use a GPS or use internet map sites. How many of us would end up lost because we aren’t familar with (or able to find) the non-digital means to find out where you’re going?
Colin mentioned it in an interview but it’s such an old interview at this point that I haven’t been able to locate it.
Did you know that the game originally didn’t HAVE Hearts?
But players didn’t know where to go to find the events. So ANet put things to do to pass the time in areas were events tend to pop up. These are the Hearts. They are primarily there to slow your progress in an area down long enough for you to see an event occur. They put it towards map completion and gave rewards to it so that players would have incentive to slow down when they ran into a heart.
And no to a reset that I can’t control. The right side of the screen is already cluttered with personal story and daily/monthly achievement and living story stuff and world event stuff. I don’t need to be forced to have heart information there when I’ve already done it.
Policing kicks doesn’t work. It would take far too many resources to truly investigate from a 3rd party point of view, and in some cases, it’s not even possible to see the full picture. For example, if you kicked someone for being abusive on TeamSpeak/etc, ArenaNet would never know and you could never prove that reason (even if you had it recorded). You would have to purposely wait until there was a record of them doing something in-game to be truly safe (chat or combat logs).
If you kick someone without cause, nothing will happen. If however you kick many people within a certain time span and each one reported you, you will probably be investigated. They may even automatically issue a ban after a certain amount of unique reports with similar reasons.
Realistically, the best ArenaNet can do is try to mitigate unjust kicks by limiting how often and when you are able to initiate one.
I made an LFG a couple days ago.
I was trying to find an organised map for doing Dry Top.
I was joined by dozens (and I mean literally over 24 people) who joined me for no reason and I had to kick them all.I don’t think your solution is more than a band-aid to a wound Anet has inflicted upon themselves.
the only solution is to make the original party leader unkickable
And Dry Top isn’t a dungeon and the original party leader wasn’t being kicked. Kicking in Dry Top does nothing to the kicked person’s progress. Just affects their experience earned and chances at loot.
Dungeon instance creator should not be immune from kicks. Here’s why:
Lazy people who want to be carried can make a group and make it look like it’s for speed runners only. Does not state that he wants to be carried or make it known that he’s a lazy bum looking to be carried (or she). He makes a decent effort for the first boss (get some time equity into the group), then slacks off. Are the speedrunners supposed to just grin and bear it for the rest of the dungeon?
Nope. They should have every right to kick the lazy person who lied to them about the intention of the group.
Nor should groups have to suffer through a drunk person on a casual run who started off sober and started the dungeon but decided drinking enough beer to get drunk was a wise decision.
And after this change there will likely be nothing to note who started the dungeon anymore (and I doubt there’s anything that denotes party leader in the code), so it may not be possible to have one person out of a party be unkickable.
They are working on ways to limit the effect of trolls and griefers, but it will likely take some time. They have to figure out a code to store votes to increase from 2 to 3. They’re working on a way to make it easier to report those who are abusing the kick system.
Your system would likely require them to add more code as well for an issue that’s probably not as common overall as you think based on your own experiences.
If you’ve been kicked as a leader 100 times out of 150 times for reasons not related to being a jerk or breaking rules, it seems like a lot. But if every kick of a dungeon creator for non jerk or rule breaking issues is only 500 out of 100,000, that’s not a lot. That’s 0.5% of dungeon creators being kicked for pointless reasons.
I say non jerk or rule breaking because:
1. No one should be forced to listen to a guy go off on someone in a rude manner just because he’s the dungeon leader and it’s too far into the dungeon to leave without making it a waste of time.
2. No one should be at the mercy of a leader who decides he wants to exploit the game. The exploiter should always be the one that has to lose progress. Not the ones who wanted to do the dungeon legit.
I’m not saying you fall into category 1 or 2, but you can’t honestly tell me that jerks and exploiters as dungeon leaders should be immune from being kicked?
Okay. I do not want to show scammer/bugger etc. examples how to exploit. Forget this point! (I know what you mean…)
My primary wish: just to know if I am / or others are exploiting at the moment or not.
(Is safespotting in Arah / Caudecus Manor at endboss an exploit? I saw it so often!)
Good rule of thumb is if you have to ask, it’s probably against the rules.
Because situations are different.
Bans rarely take place right at the instant the rule breaking occurs. I would imagine it would only happen in very extreme cases and you’d know why if it occurred. So the timing of your ban was probably just coincidence. The forums really aren’t the place to discuss bans or support decisions on whether or not a ban was justified or not or why one person was banned but not another.
That was really long, and all I got from it was you were scammed, but you fell for it, since you gave the person money. Technically, he asked for money and you gave it, so it’s not really a scam. Shady yes, scam no. You weren’t promised anything in return for a “trade”.
To the ban, no idea what you were talking about so I’m assuming it’s not because you looked someone up online. I’m just really confused on this whole post.
Same. The poor grammar the OP apologized for is really hindering anyone’s attempts to figure out what the real problem is.
Nothing that is going to encourage people to scream at each other to “get away from me” will ever, nor should ever, be introduced.
That’s why I used the squad in the proposal.
The commander squad (the 40 that where there first) is not harmed by this debuffed, and therefore doesn’t need to scream. And the ones that appear later, can decide on their own if they want to stay with the debuff, or better build a second zerg that runs somewhere else.
It won’t generate two zergs. It will generate two squads that run together. And a number of guilds that are primarily wvw are larger than 40 members. Are they forced to not play together?
The two commanders should be 1500 away from each, was the only restrition I put in on this. If the manage to put the enemy in the middle, sure they can cooperatively beat him.
I just want a avoid that more than 40 people stack together, heal each other, buff each other, condition remove each other, reduce individual damage from AoE (the more stack the less likely it hits each), i.e. gain all advantages of overstacking in 1 place without any disadvantage.
The current mechanics favors that all people that fit one map stack together. This should be countered, such that 40 becomes the optimal size and not 100.
The Commanders will just position themselves on the opposite edges of the zerg.
And there goes any and all WvW GUILD events.
Sorry, we’re doing a WvW guild event, but due to the stupid debuff, we can’t all group together.
And what would you suggest when it’s off prime time and there are only 41 people on the map? Is the last person to join in forced to roam or be a rallybot for the other side?
Then it really doesn’t solve anything.
They get prohibited from joining one group, they’ll continue to not read and/or they’ll continue to troll other groups that pop up. Solves nothing. The only way to solve the problem, of at least not reading, is to put in something that prohibits certain people from joining if the creator of the group puts it up there. Stops those who can’t read (at least a lot more who don’t read that it currently does) and reduces number of trolls that can get in (they’d have to meet the group requirements to join).