Guild Wars 2

It is not trap issue really, the culprit is mainly in DH traitline(passsivvveeezzzzzz)/spec (hello virtues on crack) just being too braindead/rewarding + buffs to core from previous patch. And class stacking. 1 DH can be dealt with – multiple DHs can be real issue given how pvp is all about holding point.

The reason why DHs are not so viable in high tier pvp is because besides having low skill floor they also have low skill cap. It is sooooo easy to see how that spec carries people from lower tiers in high tiers where they suddenly become completely useless because they have 0 map awareness and teamplay and opponents actually know how to play around DHs (seen it too many times in legend last season).

It is just turret engi all over again.

insanemaniac.2456:

Shadowstep.6049:

insanemaniac.2456:

Shadowstep.6049:

insanemaniac.2456:

Shadowstep.6049:

shion.2084:

Did you take the trait that lets engi’s auto attack with rifle faster?

Traits can be turned off and on, aftercast cannot.

doesn’t invalidate either question or mean his post was in response to you.

pretty sure the idea of the list is not taking into account modifiers like food/traits/amulets etc.

and here we devolve into arguments about how the list should be built:

whats the point of a tier list if its inaccurate? if the trait is normally taken, why should it not be included (or vice versa)? why should there not be 2 entries, one with and one without? how do you know what the OP was thinking when you are not they and why are you trying to answer for them?

because those are variable and not permanent, depending on build you migh have the trait or not

this list is just base numbers

Shadowstep.6049:

you can’t look at those dps in vaccuum

at least you figured it out later.

Pulling comments with different context – oh dear.

OriOri.8724:

Shadowstep.6049:

OriOri.8724:

Even with the buff we just got, Mesmer’s highest auto attack DPS is only halfway up the list, and only barely above 50% of what thief staff can output. The next highest Mesmer autoattack DPS is in the bottom 25% of the list, and GS and Staff are absolutely pitiful, only beating the autos on ele from the defensive attunements….. Yet apparently our damage is great on all of our weapons, considering none of them except sword were buffed last balance patch

you can’t look at those dps in vaccuum
you forget some of those weapon sets are ranged -> less risk compared to melee
you also forget class mechanics – thief is way squishier than mes atm for example; their main dps also comes from AA (rest is utility mainly) where other classes rely on actual weapon set spells (2,3,4,5) for dmg because otherwise thief would just dump all ini in high dmgging attacks (staff 5 is probably closest example)
then there is thing like scaling – some sets scale better with certain stats than other

If we take it outside a vacuum the disparity gets even larger though. Outside of extremely niche scenarios, mesmer DPS is the worst in the game, and its not like our utilities and other weapon skills make up for it. Hell WoC, our main damaging utility (our only directly damaging utility skill other than power spike), deals damage on par with or worse than some weapon skills on other classes.

Be happy you are not stuck playing healer 24/7 like ele.

I don’t think mesmers were ever meant to be consistent dmg dealer (sup necros) but be more about spike dmg (same as thieves which can’t stay in melee for longer than 2 sec and have like crappiest ranged option in game lol).

The game is actually relative balanced atm (outside of HOT specs being blatantly broken compared to core), do you want s1 mesmers lol? You want more dmg? What would you trade for it?

OriOri.8724:

Even with the buff we just got, Mesmer’s highest auto attack DPS is only halfway up the list, and only barely above 50% of what thief staff can output. The next highest Mesmer autoattack DPS is in the bottom 25% of the list, and GS and Staff are absolutely pitiful, only beating the autos on ele from the defensive attunements….. Yet apparently our damage is great on all of our weapons, considering none of them except sword were buffed last balance patch

you can’t look at those dps in vaccuum
you forget some of those weapon sets are ranged -> less risk compared to melee
you also forget class mechanics – thief is way squishier than mes atm for example; their main dps also comes from AA (rest is utility mainly) where other classes rely on actual weapon set spells (2,3,4,5) for dmg because otherwise thief would just dump all ini in high dmgging attacks (staff 5 is probably closest example)
then there is thing like scaling – some sets scale better with certain stats than other

insanemaniac.2456:

Shadowstep.6049:

insanemaniac.2456:

Shadowstep.6049:

shion.2084:

Did you take the trait that lets engi’s auto attack with rifle faster?

Traits can be turned off and on, aftercast cannot.

doesn’t invalidate either question or mean his post was in response to you.

pretty sure the idea of the list is not taking into account modifiers like food/traits/amulets etc.

and here we devolve into arguments about how the list should be built:

whats the point of a tier list if its inaccurate? if the trait is normally taken, why should it not be included (or vice versa)? why should there not be 2 entries, one with and one without? how do you know what the OP was thinking when you are not they and why are you trying to answer for them?

because those are variable and not permanent, depending on build you migh have the trait or not

this list is just base numbers

insanemaniac.2456:

Shadowstep.6049:

shion.2084:

Did you take the trait that lets engi’s auto attack with rifle faster?

Traits can be turned off and on, aftercast cannot.

doesn’t invalidate either question or mean his post was in response to you.

pretty sure the idea of the list is not taking into account modifiers like food/traits/amulets etc.

In pve – anything works but in raids. Can’t raid on thief with lag simply because if you react too late to mechanics you might wipe whole group.

WvW – thief is probably worst class to play in pvp environment when you have high ping. This class is as closest to action gameplay as you can get in this game – whole class is based around active defense: you need to dodge attacks in time, interrupt in time etc. – all within milliseconds. With high ping it is simply impossible.

I have played on NA servers from EU with 160+ and eventually had to move to EU simply because after patch couple years ago your skills just would eat your resources without actually do anything due to high ping and how server reacts to it (e.g. hs + steal combo will eat ini and put steal on CD but not actually port you to enemy). I also got hit mid dodges a lot. With 300 ms it would be even worse. If warrior or engi gets hit – they can usually shrug it off; thief will die.

If you have high ping you gotta play something with passives and slow gameplay, e.g. warriors.

shion.2084:

Did you take the trait that lets engi’s auto attack with rifle faster?

Traits can be turned off and on, aftercast cannot.

The change never made sense to anyone, even to players that don’t even play thief, especially given current state of classes. What happened prior to this nerf?

- DHs were crying rivers that thieves can break one of their myriad of blocks (aegis) from stealth
- anet team got destroyed in pvp match by helseth playing thief on stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWZ9lkbK_2U

What did Anet do? Nerfed all weapon sets (even sets that were extremely underused) from the class that has been bottom feeder (in mid tier at best, if you were top player) for 4 seasons now. This change alone speaks tomes about balancing team.

#NotSubjectiveAtAll #BeatDatDeadHorse

Have you taken aftercast time into consideration? It can be pretty heavy (e.g. thief sword, mes GS unless they abuse cancel animation) and sadly is not documented in the wiki (because reasons?)

kdaddy.5431:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The best crit on a Backstab I have seen running Zerkers with Assassins Signet popped was 10k plus 1.2 from from Lightning Strike against another Thief, this skill cannot one shot any class not running a Zerker assassin with the lowest HP. So for people saying it can one shot you in Pvp sho proof of Screenshots with your HP /ammy and the combat log.

This screen shot is before the nerfs to the other classes.

I dont know how they will perform in team setting but in solo que its pretty annoying.

Its simply steal 5 on staff. Or steal back stab 2 on dagger.

I didnt take pictures recently but i understand that any small changes ANet makes throws balance out the door from the previous meta because of how bad HOT classes are.

where is one shot in this?

The change never made sense from begin with, regardless elite spec or not. You know what happened before the nerf? This (see below) and it speaks tomes about devs and their balancing policy:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If you so desire, you can Google for the Dev response to your concern. (It will be here on these forums.)

Good luck.

I do not desire to google through reddit to find out why servers are down. I don’t want support 3rd party troll platform (which reddit is really) because devs refuse to use own forums – it is just really really wrong on many levels.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781: where does my example with season 4 title fits where devs favored reddit crew instead of players who would use official forums? Also, forums were working when login servers were screwed on Wednesday – not a word from devs here but multiple on reddit.

Also, reddit is everything but easy to read. Not to mention the only things you really see is some garbage (hello 1000th post about muffins) supported by common reddit crew. A lot of good ideas or posts simply get downvoted to oblivion or just die before they even get any attention. The format is simply wrong.

On official forums you have sections and structure and threads are visible even if they don’t appeal to roleplaying community.

The recent years i noticed rather disturbing trend. It seems like instead of using official forums devs and co. prefer to share information on reddit.

Reddit is 3rd party platform and yet you have to use it if you want current information about the game from the devs

As a player, especially as new player, if i looked for some news about the game (e.g. when servers went all crazy on Wednesday), i would look on official website/forums, yet there was nothing to find about it.
Another example is season 4 titles, the info about it was posted on reddit weeks!!!! before it was posted on official forums. What the actual hell?

Why do we have to use 3rd party platform and filter through roleplaying/pve/random trash to find info from devs that they for some reason refuse to post on official forums that…. well are actually meant for posting information.

Forums are for feedback and information and yet devs would rather use 3rd party platform and favor part of population that uses it. Why? Why is this ok? Why is information denied to players that want to use official platform?

I am not saying that devs shouldn’t post on reddit but the lack of information from devs on official forums compared to reddit is not acceptable, imo.

Ragion.2831:

lol you dont seem to get it, it not about who can one shot who. Neither is it about map awareness because that doesnt apply to what im talking about.

The question is what do you do as a mesmer if you get jumped and then one shotted by a thief you cannot see

the only thief that can one shot mesmer is kamikaze one with zerker amy and signets…. that thing has 11k HP and dies to literary anything; not to mention it is one trick pony on long CDs

99% of thieves you see in pvp cannot one shot mesmer…..

also, thank you OP for reminding me what kind of GW2 forums are

They don’t want out moneys~

Josh Davis.6015:

Would you want to see any changes to Courtyard before it came back? A new mechanic, perhaps?

It needs visual rework. Problem with it – too cluttered → can’t see crap. Too much favoritism for aoe spammers as well.

Ragion.2831:

Razor.9872:

Chronomancers have so many blocks/evades. Just always be aware of your surroundings and be ready to pop distortion or something when you know there is a thief nearby; they can’t stay in stealth very long without giving something away, and you can generally tell how long before a back-stab happens.

This doesnt help the OP, if a thief begins its approach and attack from stealth then what

Ithilwen.1529:

Very few Mesmers run substantial stealth in the current era. That argument doesn’t make much sense.

I does little good to distortion or block after an initial hit with basilisk venom, plus the thief is now high on boons. I should random block/evade/dodge?

How do you think it is for thief fighting condi mes lol? You get hit even through dodges because clones run at 200% speed.

Also, map awareness is hardcounter to thieves. Open your map for once and use your eyes.

I can beat most mes on thief but only reason is because they all use same rotation with same timing, it is literary like fighting a raid boss – too predictable. They don’t even attempt to play mind games or care about positioning. Good mes like Misha, Helseth and co. are different story, they play differently, not like some bot that learned rotation from metabattle that is why they are good.

Can’t login atm, keep getting message that login server is not available…

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Thief shouldnt be able to consistently 1v1 as long as he builds trick, DD and sb

I’m sorry but that makes no sense unless you are saying a thief can never 1v1.

From my understanding tricks daredevil are mandatory traitlines. Weapon swap is pretty much pointless to a thief mid fight.

Thieves are push overs atm

What im trying to say is, you cant make the best +1/disengage/mobility class a good 1v1er or it will be broken af cause lack of counterplay. If you want to be able to 1v1, you need to ask for buffs to builds that doesnt give you the best mobility or chasing potential ingame.
If you cant separate them, then not, thief shouldnt be able to 1v1 most of the time

With the introduction of HoT Thief mobility is no longer as game defining as it once was. In today’s game even a vigilant Necro can stop a decap on a lot of the maps. Let’s not even consider mesmers, rangers, engies, and revs……so your mobility argument is pretty moot tbh.

As for stuff with no counterplay….this game has been wrought with that for years. Look at my main class mesmer. Remember them in S1&2? Remember the cele ele? Remember Hambow? Remember 1/2 the kitten that’s been in the game since release?

You are talking about thieves in the past vs thieves in the present. I’ve noticed lots of baseless bias from players in this game like to think thieves are what they used to be when considering today’s balance. Heck even the Devs do this and it’s wrong to all these players who choose this class. Balance thief for today not yesterday.

Thief still has the best mobility, decapping is just a little part of what u can do. If thirf was a good dueler, he could just easily pick up favourable matches or avoid bad matchups/+1 abusing mobility, plus everything it can already do now. Focusing on decaps only is dumb if you can actually 1v1, and as thief you could easily force those 1v1s without any viable counterplay.

Except other classes have enough mobility in HoT to completely negate any attempt from thief to get any decaps. Also whole logic about thief shouldn’t be able to 1v1 because of mobility became moot when revs were introduced.

Doggie.3184:

A lot of armor is bigger on Sylvari for some reason~ it’s been a problem since beta. They just don’t scale it well.
It’s part of why I hate the coat, skirt and longboots design obsession and most shoulder pieces.

yeah i have been wearing same shoes (long live magitech) for almost 3 years now because everything else looks oversized and crappy :/

4 years later despite all the feedback female sylvari still suffer from fat leg syndrome (see screenshot, sylvari vs human, zodiac armor is especially crazy) – one of the main reasons why i don’t want to buy outfits from gem store. I like new outfit that just was added to the game but once again i won’t buy it due to how disproportional legs look like. WTB leg fix

Lymphy.1276:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

The real question is: why is Anet moving in this awkward direction?

How is it awkward? Anet ditched most passive defenses(such as dodge/evade in WoW and other mmos) for active skill based defense seems like a step forward to me. Is it possible you are doing something wrong? As i personally don’t have any issues with block, when i build to counter play block or any other defenses.

at launch? yeah maybe

with HoT they went full WoW mode

Let’s embrace powercreep? How about no.

You bring broken builds as example and want necro to be buffed to their level? Anything else?

kappa.2036:

@ Supreme
The funniest thing is that you haven’t understood anything about the post.

I wasn’t trying to say “Necro is bad”, I was trying to make people understand that the necro (necro is only an example btw) to do damage must be builded with offensive traits and skills while other classes can do a lot of damage while maintaining defensive traits and skills because they can rely on passive invulnerabilities, blocks,etc.

I’m sorry if I have not explained well

thieves say hi, 11k HP, forced into trickery, forced into DD, SA is garbage – get hit one time -> enjoy spawn time

reapers are fine (i play one myself), just because other classes are broken doesn’t mean we need s2 all over again

I am not talking about wvw duels…… -_-

I am talking to a wall apparently, nvm.

@Deceiver: you really don’t understand what i write, do you?

dem forums bugs tho

Have seen DHs do it. But w/e.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Shadowstep.6049:

~snip~
If you actually think d/p is that easy, you are welcome to play core dp in legend – let’s see how far you get with it. Please record it so we can all see how easy dp is.

What a useless waste of response. If you think that D/D is easier than D/P, then where is your recorded game play in Legend using that weapon set if that is your way of proving something to be easy or difficult?

I know D/P is easy because I’ve used it in many different builds. Other weapon set just don’t work with certain builds, but D/P fits right in.

What a useless waste of response.

I haven’t said d/d is easy (power that is; condi one is different story). It is simply easier to start with as a new player because it is very one dimensional (aka do dmg only). Just because d/p can fit in different builds, doesn’t make it easy. It makes it universal. Being effective on d/p is everything but easy.

What does d/d teach you as anew player? How to land backstab. Oh yeah, when to use HS.

What does d/p teach you as new player? How to land backstab, when to use HS, what to interrupt and when, how to use combos, how not to get interrupted while doing that combo, when to use gap closers and which, fact that blind goes through block etc.

The sets have different dimensions, simple as it is. Saying one is easier than other is stupid. D/D suffers so to say from lack of utility, d/p suffers from management of that very utility.

@Deceiver: it is 2016, check forums, people cry about thieves evades and dodges nowadays not stealth….. and as far as stealth spam goes we might as well mention how our d/d brothers were stealthing off everything hitable including walls and critters for years, i think they contributed plenty to the mass QQ (at least i have seen way too many threads complaining how thief perma stealth off walls in wvw).

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Why D/P is the easiest? It’s simply because it has access to stealth and has one of the lowest total initiative cost. I can easily do combination attacks in D/P that I can never do in other sets due to high initiative cost. D/P is very efficient and effective on everything that a Thief needs to do. Nothing can compare to it.

At the very basic form — no armor, no traits, no other skills — D/P is noob friendly. At the highest skill level, D/P is still the easiest to use since other weapon sets are just clunky or buggy and unreliable. I find it surprising that someone will argue that P/P is easier to use — lol, it’s not. If one will think that pressing #3 is easy, just wait when you ran out of initiatives, let’s see if the set is still easy then. No one can even pull a decent skill combination using P/P since it’s neither easy nor effective. That weapon set has a lot of issues need to be addressed before it can qualify to be easy to use.

EDIT: typos

So much stroking of own ego. D/D also has access to stealth, actually at lower ini costs than d/p.
When i started to play this game, i used d/d because it was most straight forward set and easiest set to learn. You don’t need to worry about timing interrupts or decide whether you should spend ini on stealth, interrupts or gap closers. You don’t need to save teammates (interrupt stomps, peel off teammates etc.) because the set is stupidly selfish. The weaponsets are simply completely different. One is straight forward one dimensional damage dealer (aka warrior GS) other is all about utility.

Being effective as d/d is hard, i agree, but so is as d/p if you face non-braindead enemies.

If you actually think d/p is that easy, you are welcome to play core dp in legend – let’s see how far you get with it. Please record it so we can all see how easy dp is.

Zilvereen.2091:

I think he needs a boost on his sustains because he gets too much punishment for a single mistake. Usually it goes like this

I evade
I evade
I evade
I fail to evade and I lose 2/3 of my health

So unless Anet wants this class to be balanced around asian reflexes they should do smth about teef’s sustain like boosting his health-gain-regen on evade or smth.

The fun fact, since thief was forced into “asian reflexes” gameplay everyone is crying rivers about thief dodges now lol.

Syrius Gorn.5384:

2. you really think that 100+teams will sign up on the last minute ? generally it’s the top team who does this. But they are already in, most of them.

you have never done AG, have you lol?

If it was in SA? no.

1. a lot of players that usually play solo (myself including) form teams just for tourneys like this but don’t actually use ranked for team queue
2. you do realize lot of teams usually sign up like on last second lol?

DeceiverX.8361:

As condi, yes.

Power, no way. Easiest APM, maybe (and even still I’d pin this to P/P, personally), but that means literally nothing, and it’s only that way because the only skills that at one point weren’t total garbage were CnD and backstab. The rest- situational fluff.

Easiest set to use in general probably goes to P/P. It has an objectively easy kit to use and in almost every respect is more rewarding to play than D/D. D/P isn’t far behind imho, though. Sure it has a high skill ceiling, but it also absolutely has a high skill floor (especially with Daredevil), too. In most instances, when I swap to D/P, difficult encounters are trivialized, and I don’t even swap traits to make my build have any amount of cohesion, and still run core thief. The skill ceiling on most other kits is just nonexistant because the kits themselves are so limited in how they can perform to a point where player skill rarely matters past a certain point, because they just simply won’t be effective. That’s D/D power’s case currently; you can be an absolutely amazing thief but it’ll genuinely stop mattering past a certain point because you will not have the tools to deal with other builds as opposed to D/P, Staff, and in some respects, even S/x kits.

Just because d/p has tools for certain situation it doesn’t mean it is easy set to play. Universal? Yes. Easy? Not really. You have to manage ini so you can use those tools on first place, the moment you use one of the tools you often give up others simply due to ini costs, you have to time your spells as well, you also have to decide which one will you use, d/p it is not just straight forward damage dealer like d/d for example.

The problem with d/d (power that is) is that is very very one dimensional (even more one dimensional than warrior GS) and it just doesn’t fit in thematic of HoT anymore which introduced myriad of passives/blocks/aoe etc. The set needs more utility however seeing as war GS didn’t get any updates either i suspect d/d will remain pure power murder them all or die set (or condi evade monkey).

Assuming you are serious: p/p is noob stomper, doesn’t work vs anyone with half brain.

Urghhh skyhammer…..

SH was never going to be competitive due to too much pve~

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Silverbolt.2301:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mintyfreshsmell.1568:

After reading countless QQ thief threads, this one takes the cake for me. After years and near constant nerfs, you want to take away one of the very FEW last things our class can do, because you have a hard time fighting them? LOL no.

You want to cripple Thieves ONLY real mechanic when EVERY CLASS BUT THIEF HAS A REVEAL, because you are angry that Thieves are using their ONLY ability to get close to you without you seeing. Please just learn to play. When a thief Stealth stacks, he loses the ability to use other abilities for a few seconds. That alone is enough.

If I were a dev I’d not only close this thread, but ban you from kitten posting on the Thief board.

The problem with your response is that, you didn’t read this thread. Because if you did, my suggestion, for instance, advocates in removing the one major thing that cripples the Thief, that is the Revealed debuff.

You sound like you really like D/P, but at the same time you don’t know how to play it effectively.

You’re making it sound like D/P is difficult to use. It’s the easiest weapon set to use, compare to other Thief’s weapons set. It’s very effective even in the hands of noobs, no L2P required.

You want to play condition damage effectively, use D/P.
You want to use trapper rune effectively, use D/P.
Power base effectively, use D/P.
Venom condition? D/P.
Troll trapper rune? D/P.
D/P, D/P, D/P
You just can’t go wrong with it.

The real question is, is there an ineffective way to play D/P?

There is big difference between good dp and noob dp…. simply because dp has high skill ceiling. Jump in as dp – yeah np; be actually effective as dp, at least in high tier pvp, is different story.

TexZero.7910:

Rising Dusk.2408:

To be fair, I do think Alacrity should affect Thief initiative gain.

Had this talk with some of the people i raid with as well that prefer thief over ele.

What we came down with was each point of initiative would need it’s own cd thus making it able to interact with alacrity but that is probably a bit harder to work on/code than it sounds.

No, not really. Ini is like HP, ini regen is like HP regen – it has it’s own ticks (e.g. 1 ini per sec). Alacrity could just increase speed of ticks (e.g. 2 ini per sec) – done.

There is however problem with whole – thief dps comes mainly from AA…………………….. because everyone cried to many rivers about thief in pvp that Anet nerfed every weapon spell and left AA. So at the end i am not so sure if ini regen would even help as far as raids go since you AA 24/7 as thief :/ It would be of course different story if ini based spells brought also certain group utility (e.g. might stack or sec of quickness for a group on successful hit ini based spell).

P.S. i honestly think that they just forgot to implement alacrity effect on ini just like they forgot to implement stolen spell from revs.

alicatrawz.9567:

if i put a kickstarter fund together to go protest about changes to thief…
Who would join?

#justwantdeveloperinput

I think only thing we could do is organize mass travel to Gamescon and boycott Anet there (if they do participate) xD because it would go in press and bad publicity like this is not wanted~

Ah expected more pvp :<

I like your pvp content and rock-style music you use in some videos more tbh.

This game needs bot mode like LoL or OW has. Bots games are stupidly easy but they teach you base mechanics better than some written text. If Riot and Blizz manage to create bots that understand objectives (cap point, push payload etc.) then i think Anet can do it too. Bot games are also great for testing out builds or practice certain combos (e.g. i am extremely bad on Genji so i am spamming hard mode bot games atm to get better at it since hard mode bots have better aim than human players).

Boosting new accounts is bad. It is just like same issue we see with revs right now: the class was so overtuned for so long that when it finally saw some nerfs a lot of revs went on QQ rampage and don’t know how to pvp anymore.

Boosts won’t teach new players pvp, in fact it will spoil them and when boost runs out they suddenly get destroyed all over again. This is not how you learn pvp – you learn pvp by being detroyed by better players and learning from them and your mistakes. When i was new to game i spammed HJs until i finally started to feel somehow confident about my pvp knowledge, then i started to do ranked. I have done it in literary every single game i pvp’d in. I don’t see how boosts would have taught me anything there.

Why GW2 pvp community is small is entirely because how bad it was at launch. PvP had great community but got neglected for so long (no leagues, no rewards etc.) that a lot of people simply lost interest. The wave of population we had in s1-s2 is mainly because of pve’ers wanting to farm backpack, they will never stick to this game mode for long time no matter what you give them. Add to it how poorly leagues were implemented because Anet wanted to make it noob friendly….

How Anet decides on class balance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWZ9lkbK_2U

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Obtena.7952:

Shadowstep.6049:

NikeEU.7690:

Shadowstep.6049:

NikeEU.7690:

Astralporing.1957:

Aldath.1275:

The fractals, dungeons and raids can all be clared by any team comp with knowledge of the scenario and boss mechanics. Period.

Nope. Dungeons and fractals? Yeah, possibly, even likely, depending on the skill of the group. Raids? Nope. Not on all bosses anyway. There are some minimum requirements there that not all group comps would fulfill.

Is that an objectively bad thing? there is optimal, there is suboptimal-but-viable, there is reasonable and there is unreasonable. Is it too high a bar to ask people to run at least reasonable builds?

I don’t think so. I think the base line of have a healer, enough cc and meager dps needed to beat enrage isn’t a very constrciting paragdigm. That’s all it takes to qualify as reasonable. If that is too restricting for you I’d suggest that raids just aren’t for you the same way ESL pvp isn’t for me.

People run viable builds but nobody wants them because everyone and their mother just blindly follows elitists guides that most can’t even execute properly.

Makes sense to me. If you can’t run a good build properly why should I expect you’ll do any bether running a trash build? I’LL take my chances with bad player on good build vs bad player on bad build.

Other builds are not trash…..

Don’t bother arguing … left over relics from Dungeon meta days. The idea that players equipped ‘properly’ that don’t know how to play are more valuable than players knowing their class in and out that don’t play meta is just grasping at relevance.

In a game where skilled players can ‘short’ instanced PVE content so badly, thinking like this are a parody of themselves.

To be fair, he compared “bad player with good build” and “bad player with bad build” – he never mentioned “good player with bad build”, which is something different

In his mind people with “bad” build are bad, period. Not to mention, those builds are not even “bad”, they are just not most optimal for elitist 6 man raid runs.

NikeEU.7690:

Shadowstep.6049:

NikeEU.7690:

Astralporing.1957:

Aldath.1275:

The fractals, dungeons and raids can all be clared by any team comp with knowledge of the scenario and boss mechanics. Period.

Nope. Dungeons and fractals? Yeah, possibly, even likely, depending on the skill of the group. Raids? Nope. Not on all bosses anyway. There are some minimum requirements there that not all group comps would fulfill.

Is that an objectively bad thing? there is optimal, there is suboptimal-but-viable, there is reasonable and there is unreasonable. Is it too high a bar to ask people to run at least reasonable builds?

I don’t think so. I think the base line of have a healer, enough cc and meager dps needed to beat enrage isn’t a very constrciting paragdigm. That’s all it takes to qualify as reasonable. If that is too restricting for you I’d suggest that raids just aren’t for you the same way ESL pvp isn’t for me.

People run viable builds but nobody wants them because everyone and their mother just blindly follows elitists guides that most can’t even execute properly.

Makes sense to me. If you can’t run a good build properly why should I expect you’ll do any bether running a trash build? I’LL take my chances with bad player on good build vs bad player on bad build.

Other builds are not trash…..

You forgot to mention Anet gutted acro and s/d so they can resell them as elite spec. So no, at least for thieves it didn’t really bring anything. It is like breaking someone legs and then sell them an artificial leg. This is literary what Anet did with thieves in HoT.

supa suop.8026:

Shadowstep.6049:

This game is not all about duels. Say i stealthed downed teammate and trying to rez him, yay spammable choking gas, GG team utility.

But makes it easier for your team to killed the downed player and those who would be rezing them. Utility is back on the board haha.

And also hinders the rezing ability of the downed person (cant remember of it also effects the person who is rezings as well, but I don’t think it does)

Spammable aoe reveal though….. i am not sure if it is really that good of idea.

Hirasaki.6208:

The balance patch motivated bad Revenants to leave with bandwagon and move on from the more skillful class.

fix’d

supa suop.8026:

Shadowstep.6049:

supa suop.8026:

But we are not the only class that uses stealth anymore

Is sneak gyro really that much of a problem after nerf? Meta mes doesn’t really use stealth. Druid doesn’t sit in it either nor it is spammable. You suggestion would just hurt thieves the most.

I would rather propose changes that would give us better chance vs other classes. Thieves already murder each other pretty quickly.

you forgot the trapper runes too, but understandably that one is pretty rare too.

I fail to see how applying one second of reveal is going to really hurt thieves that badly. All they have to do is disengage and re apply it. Where as other classes( save maybe engineer if you can kill the gyro) may have a harder time re applying it due to CDs.

Thief is supposed to be the masters of stealth whats wrong with giving the power to decide who gets to be in stealth or not.

This game is not all about duels. Say i stealthed downed teammate and trying to rez him, yay spammable choking gas, GG team utility.

saerni.2584:

Can you post your ideas in the balance thread and not make new threads? It is hard to get devs to pay attention if we have 20 threads with 10 posts in each. We need one thread with a lot of ideas and discussion for them to read.

They never go here. We had some guy here harassing everyone with racist comments in this section – he went unpunished for really long time despite all the reports.