Guild Wars 2

Omg….. this is too good…. oh my sides.

runeblade.7514:

Shadowstep.6049:

runeblade.7514:

Some time ago, Thieves were kings of 1v1 while they have stealth. This made them overpowered as kitten. They have the ability to do high damage and have high survivability due to mobility and stealth. Thieves were rightfully nerfed.

If thieves should be buffed to win 1v1 easily, they should lose/reduce access to stealth. Hopefully daredevil would fill that.

Easily, hardcounter, OP, beat everything <<<this gets thrown around so much BUT WHERE DO YOU SEE ANY THIEF ASKING FOR IT!!??

Then you already got what you asked for. Thieves can win 1v1. They can’t win it easily.

Given same skill, no they can’t (besides some bad builds).

runeblade.7514:

Some time ago, Thieves were kings of 1v1 while they have stealth. This made them overpowered as kitten. They have the ability to do high damage and have high survivability due to mobility and stealth. Thieves were rightfully nerfed.

If thieves should be buffed to win 1v1 easily, they should lose/reduce access to stealth. Hopefully daredevil would fill that.

Easily, hardcounter, OP, beat everything <<<this gets thrown around so much BUT WHERE DO YOU SEE ANY THIEF ASKING FOR IT!!??

I open CM, clear basement by myself (playing thief), make post on LFG p1, looking for 80/zerk but frankly i usually don’t care what people run as long as they are 80 and not exactly in blues.

Few people join, we got a necro. Ele kicks him from group. I invited necro back as i felt bad for him. Ele kicks him again, changes LFG into FULL RUN META ZERK yada yada.

I told ele to leave because i don’t want such rude people in the group and it is my dungeon and he has no right to dictate what we run. Ele claimed that i joined the group. I said how did i join the group when i opened the dungeon, cleared basement and made LFg post on first place. If he doesn’t like how i run it he can just go make own group. Eventually we managed to kick him and found someone else.

TL/DR: i really wish ownership of the dungeon would be back so i wouldn’t have to open dungeon, clear part of it and then fear to get kicked because some players would rather cause troble like this and be rude to other.

Erzian.5218:

I think if your worst 1v1 match up is a draw as you can always disengage and survive if you cannot kill your opponent, that qualifies as “good”. It clearly does not say that thief is good at contesting nodes
Thief has good damage and cc, so it also qualifies as deadly.
#arguingsemanticsandclassdescriptions

edit:

Everyone thinks thieves ask to be Op in 1v1. All thieves ask for is to actually have some chance vs some classes. Right now as thief gameplay: there is enemy? Run away.

NOBODY wants to play a build that is hard countered by a superior mobility build that is involved in most if not all competitive teams. There are plenty of builds that have a 50:50 or worse match up vs thief. Some of them see play (Shatter mesmer) but most of them don’t because there is no payoff for running them. Nobody wants to have to babysit one person in their team 24/7 just because there is a thief on the enemy team. Mesmer sees play as it has stealth, high mobility to disengage and brings good utility (sounds familiar huh?) so it is actually worth bringing one.

Hardcountered? Please tell me what thieves hardcounter? Shatter mes has 50:50 or worse match up vs thief? Really? Wow, did you pvp lately?

And where did i say thieves want to be HARDCOUNTER to anything? Please tell me. You are just making up stuff for the sake of argument.

Everyone thinks thieves ask to be Op in 1v1. All thieves ask for is to actually have some chance vs some classes. Right now as thief gameplay: there is enemy? Run away.

People don’t do pvp to spend entire match running away. Players pvp to experience play vs player COMBAT which developers decided to deny to thieves because of some rather dubious marketing strategy.

Once HoT comes out, revs will completely shut down thieves and no sb5 in the world will keep them in pvp. Best part, according to votes on reddit, this class was rated worst in EVERY area of this game.

Yes, thief is playable if you are REALLLLLYYYY good at it and you have REALLLY good team that you can rely on. They don’t have you as thief to help them, they have you as a pet that can help to increase the score difference. That is all. As thief you actually have close to no influence on match outcome if your team is not destroying enemy team already. You think this is fun? Do you really think it is fun to be a worthless pet?

You know sub rogues also had support role in wow in arena, but at least they had high burst that actually did dmg on relative short CD and high amount of CC. What does thief have? yay sb5 and stealth, both will be useless in HoT.

Havok.6073:

Well this confirms how much they care about Thieves. Locking our Elite mechanic behind grandmaster traits was a kittening brilliant idea. Way to go Karl! You’re on a roll with this community!

Idk… players quit thief, buy HoT and reroll revenant. Sounds like successful business model. Only people that lose is die hard thief players but nobody cares about them.

Because they need to sell HoT and what is better way to do it than create artificial demand by nerfing thief to oblivion and give rev all that thieves ever wanted?

Play thief. Close to no passives kek.

Indication of passives would be nice though, i agree. The problem is, it would probably lead to UI clutter.

You know stealth doesn’t make you invulnerable? You can still use CCs, knockback, just huge dps on the area where your teammate is downed and about to be stomped. The chances you will hit stealthed player are about 90%

Invulnerability is different story. But then you can stealth up your teammate or speed rez them (team rez, banner, quickness etc.)

Oh and just for some experience with stomping, try to down ranger and then stomp them w/o using stealth/invul etc. GL getting past miriad of CCs and rez from pet.

Tao.5096:

bliss.4305:

*ironic ’cause nobody knows/cares to exploit the existing counterplays to stealth or thus needing a “hard counter” like reveal.

-_-

And what kind of counterplay for example Necromancer has against Thief, stealthing every 3 seconds with ability to teleport god knows where?

There is no indicator for hitting stealthed player = 0 counterplay for almost all classes.

Or perhaps mindlessly with crossed fingers dropping aoes everywhere around is a kind of counterplay to it?

Even blind spam on D/P is less cheesy than stealth spamming and Backstabing all the time.

Necro shroud hits thief w/o having any target…. i died so many times w/o necro even knowing i was there because he pressed his 4 and 5 and miriad passives activated.

As far as i understood, there are no plans to return soloq in HoT. Let’s ignore majority of pvp community woohoo.

hackks.3687:

Fizz.8763:

Well rip I think i went like 3 wins 15 losses spamming games yesterday. Even when I feel like I’m constantly doing things, ill look at scoreboard and realize our team is like 100 points behind, no matter how many decaps I get or how many times I manage to successfully help in bigger fights ;-;

And then if I switch to something easy like burn guard I have no issues rolling my face on my keyboard and winning. All my classes have good win rates so far, and then thief is at like 39%

You have 3 jobs as a Theif:

1. Kill the opposing Thief
2. Kill the opposing DPS threats
3. Decap undefended side points

In that order.

Your basic function is to help your teammates win fights quickly with a strong interrupt from stealth followed by extreme burst on whichever opponent they’re focusing or under pressure from. You’re not great at head on 1v1’s and far better when taking by surprise. Never engage a fight without being in stealth first. Stay out of the middle of team fights. Interrupt their heal.

Everyone dies a lot when they’re learning a new class and mechanic, so don’t sweat it. Thief is too much fun to give up on. Stick with it and it’ll be worth it. GL

Can’t do second function anymore since thief was stripped of combat capability with spec patch. Don’t give OP wrong ideas which have nothing to do with reality (if he starts facing good opoponents).

kolompi.1287:

Don’t play support guardian, your only role is to remove conditions and heal people in team fights.

Don’t play pewpew ranger, your only role is to snipe people that are unaware of you being there.

Don’t play engineer, your only role is to run around being tanky and holding off people.

Don’t play mesmer, your only role is to burst.

Don’t play warrior, your only role is to go rampage and throw rocks.

- bunker guard actually sacrifices offensive spells/stats to be a bunker and IS really effective at it; guardian also can play burn or medi builds. Thief on other hand can sacrifice any stats/spells they want they are not effective at ANYTHING as far as combat goes.

- funny enough rangers are quite good in 1v1 fights, you can also play condi point holder or offensive sniper; reason why they are not play in tourneys is because mesmers are so much better and rangers fold under focus

- that is a lie about engis: they can play decap build, can play bruiser build, can play marader/high condi offensive builds; they are really good and versatile team fighters

- here is the joke: mesmers fill same role as thief (namely roamer) but they are way more robust and actually do more dmg and have more acess to CC…. they are strongest class along with dd ele atm and their combat capability wasn’t crippled so much by development for the sake of roaming role

- again not true: you can play rampage or you can play shoutbow – both builds are actually pretty good in current meta AND neither of them is incapable of combat

I am sorry but none of your examples are good. Thief is only profession in entire game that gives up defensive spells/abilities for offensives and still sucks at combat. Every other class in this game sees thief as loot bag.
Even if thieves would give up offensive capability, they are absolutely terrible at defensive role. Their entire playstyle atm consist of capping empty nodes, drop refuge on downed body and running away from enemies.

icostaw.5072:

ZenMa.3976:

Dragon rank/ played only thief almost 1k matched.

Can’t fight 1vs1 with any class cuz thief will lose mostly.

Therefore, Thief must run. Run Run Run. Just do decap or +1 fight. <<< other class can do this same. So, what is the point of playing thief in SPvP?? Just res in stealth? Oh, that’s freaking coooooooooooooooooooooool. That is Only one reason to play thief.

When ur thief meet any other class in 1vs1 situation, just run. cuz u can’t win mostly.

conclusion, DO NOT PLAY THIEF AT SPVP.

OTHER CLASSES ARE MORE BETTER HELP TO TEAM WIN.
ALSO, MORE EASY TO PLAY THAN THIEF.

PERIOD.

I’m fairly new to pvp (about 150 games)
Can you give some tips, how to beat thief as a mesmer?
Seems i cant beat thief on 1v1 (while capping).
His combo basilisk venom —> stealth --> backstab —> daze (from steal) --> other skill, burn my hp so fast, sometimes i can literally die or on sliver hp

That is unrealistic if you are using mirror anguish.You can also use invul instantly since it has no cast and will also blind thief giving you plenty of time to do something. If you are not using those traits in pvp as mesmer, then sry but your build needs improvement.

Also, in 2+ years of playing this game i have yet to die from single thief burst (besides in wvw from signet thief), usually i have multiple ways of dealing with them before my HP actually reaches 0 (and mind you, as i play thief and ele sometimes i don’t exactly have high HP from begin with).
I did get 1 shotted by mesmer burst w/o any tell out of stealth after spec patch hence why vamp rune became mandatory (and even it doesn’t save me from it most of the time as the mes dmg is usually so high and instant that even rune doesn’t have chance to activate).
I can beat bad mesmers by literary randomly dodging their first burst (if i manage predict them comming in stealth from other node) and just generally predict their next spell uses (bad mesmers always do same thing zzz), but vs really good mesmers? No chance.

Would you play rather lackluster spec on stream?

Ohoni.6057:

The griefing of the thief class is not done yet apprently lol. I do not have the problem since i have absurd amount of points on my main thief (besides i couldn’t care less about drd) but i can see the issue there for other.

No, that’s what I thought too, until today’s announcement. My Thief also has an absurd amount of points, since I have world completion and haven’t bothered buying skills I don’t use. Apparently, however, you’ll be forced to buy ALL existing skills before you can even start buying the HoT ones, and that means that no one will start HoT with enough points to unlock the full tree for their elite specs.

On most classes, this is only a partial issue, since a fully unlocked character would at least be able to get started, but with the Thief, they buried the entire point of the class at the end of the trait tree.

Oh i do have everything unlocked though xD (2+ years old character, before changes to skill system, world completion yada yada) and as i said i couldn’t care less about DrD. The spec is such lackluster, it has literary nothing to offer for me.

I agree that hiding actual spec in GM traits while other classes get it in minor was rather crappy move, especially if spec will ends up being mandatory for raiding. Creating more artificial griefing where there is already plenty of it (go play pvp as thief atm, get harassed for not rerolling something else) is just wrong.

There is no valid path to hope.

The griefing of the thief class is not done yet apprently lol. I do not have the problem since i have absurd amount of points on my main thief (besides i couldn’t care less about drd) but i can see the issue there for other.

4k games on thief here (2 accounts)

Thief is only worth playing if you are really good and have really good team to carry you. So don’t even bother with the class if both of this requirements are not fulfilled.

In HoT it will be worse. We might actually see thief completely fall out of meta.

It makes me really wonder why people think it is fun to play a pet and not a class.

What is even more comical is how many non-thief players say the class is fine yet cry rivers that they will lose match when they end up having 2+ thieves on team. You tell them: but guize you said thief is “fine”! Those people actually verbally harass you, rage quit and afk on you in match for not rerolling to other class /facepalm

I am actually surprised that such artificial creation of player griefing with help of terrible class design is allowed on first place. But then again someone is suffering from god complex apprently and there is sadly no valid path to hope :/

I used to run fractals (49-50) every day for about 1.5 years. I still didn’t get dagger. In meantime i got 9 precursors and 3 legendaries. Just to give you an idea how ridicilous drop rate for specific skin is.

Just reroll. If you think it is bad now, wait untill HoT when every class but thief will be on steroids.

Ini cost is CD. Global at it too. Unlike other classes i can’t just press 12345, switch weapon and spam away again on thief. By using sb5 you actually give up cc/dmg/survivability at the same time. But people that don’t play thief don’t understand it for some reason.

Oh, and you can’t compare thief to revenants because revs can switch legends. Thieves on other hand are stuck with 1 resource.

Reduce acess to stealth? Really? Do you even know thieves have no acess to protection and invuls? Very limited acess to heals and condi removal. Lowest HP in game as well. Lowest amount of defensive passives. And you ask to reduce their acess to stealth given how much revealed there will be in HoT? Really?

You know what is toxic? Players that never touched class and QQ non-stop on forums how “broken” the class is w/o having any idea how it even works. They are main reason why the class is in such pathetic state (hi, i am ranger pet).

Old one probably killer. Current one:
Daredevil: 18
Conqueror: 16
Seeker: 11
Survivor: 8
Mastermind: 7
Socialiser: 4
Achiever: -2

Exception: No Commitment: You dislike being asked to complete everything, preferring to pick and choose which tasks you will attempt, or simply messing around with a game.

I mained thief-like classes in every game and i love assassin/stealth games. I LOVE pvp.

actually thieves are affected by it as well

i had it happen to shadowshot (i get ported to enemy but spell actually doesn’t affect them because they turned around but eats ini anyway) consistently

so much this^^

right now pvp is like:
i see class X → NOPE, get out of here

unless there are some absurdly huge changes to drd, it won’t be any better (or rather it will be even worse) in HoT… at least this is based on BWE experience

Impressive… people still find something to complain about thieves…

Anet nerfed literary everything on thief to the ground for the sake of mobility and now you ask to nerf moblity as well? Why not just ask to delete the class?

Btw eles, ranger and mes can +1 and decap just at about same speed really. The only difference is that you can see where ele/ranger is going and mes doesn’t have as much on land moblity(arguable due to portal).

nearlight.3064:

Shadowstep.6049:

nearlight.3064:

Shadowstep.6049:

I just wonder one thing: are devs even aware how heavily thieves rely on vamp runes?

Worst part is, mesmers (which are main reason why vamp rune is mandatory) getting buffed in HoT….

And thieves are getting extra dodges, extra stealth, and the ability to spam weakness. You need to adapt and realize how not using this tune will make you a better player.

- extra stealth? from what?

Leap finisher dodge through black powder.

Who knows, maybe we’ll see some crazy sentinel’s pointholding dodge-tank thief. It probably won’t happen, but it’d be interesting for sure.

that is hardly extra stealth….

nearlight.3064:

Shadowstep.6049:

I just wonder one thing: are devs even aware how heavily thieves rely on vamp runes?

Worst part is, mesmers (which are main reason why vamp rune is mandatory) getting buffed in HoT….

And thieves are getting extra dodges, extra stealth, and the ability to spam weakness. You need to adapt and realize how not using this tune will make you a better player.

- yeah.. extra dodge at begin of fight, that is it, none of endurance traits actually take 3rd bar into account
- still no reliable dmg mitigation (10% from Gm is laughable) and anyone with bit brain and decent reaction can kill 1-2 shot thief between evade times and during after cast frames
- have to give up team support if you take drd
- because weakness totally affects condis…………………….. and because other classes don’t have miriad ways to remove it….
- extra stealth? from what?

L2p and adapt? Ok. But then we have threads like this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-should-allow-only-1-thief/first#post5622337 (which is not the first of a kind) that just scream that there is problem with the class.

Belial.9350:

Only one thief should be allowed per team in rankedq (unless a party has more than one thief). Any more than one thief when enemy team doesn’t is 98% chance loss.

Why would you make such suggestion? Every non-thief yells on forums that thieves are fine! Even devs on stream say that thieves are strong kek.

I just wonder one thing: are devs even aware how heavily thieves rely on vamp runes?

Worst part is, mesmers (which are main reason why vamp rune is mandatory) getting buffed in HoT….

Lord Faren duhh

oh ya forgot this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFLfNIMIKgg

infantrydiv.1620:

I already did this with max size norns with the mustache. We all played PU and played in a tournament. All the names were like I i iI i Il l. There might be a vod of it somewhere :p

how could you >_<

force new players to play thief for first 50 games in pvp; they will learn to avoid huge team (or any for that matter) fights pretty fast :P

Josh Davis.6015:

Looks like the other thread got moved over to the HoT forum.

Josh Davis.6015:

As mentioned on today’s GuildChat, we will indeed be adding a slew of new stat combos, runes, and sigils to sPvP with the launch of Heart of Thorns. A small example of what we’ll be adding are trapper runes and sinister stats, but there’s plenty more for you to discover on October 23.

As a note (and to address concerns), we won’t be adding dire stats or perplexity runes to sPvP. We’re vetting and discussing each and every rune/sigil/stat combo as a group before adding them in, with the main goal being improving build diversity.

I’ll also mention that we’re going to be changing the 6/6 bonus on Vampirism. After HoT launch it will no longer proc Mist Form at 25% hp, but will instead cast an AoE lifesteal to up to 5 nearby targets. This will reduce the binary defensive nature of the rune and bring it more inline with similar sets.

There’s going to be a lot of change with the launch next week, and we’re going to be watching balance very closely in all game modes. We will be working to address any emergent gameplay we’re not comfortable with as quickly as possible.

-Grouch

PS, thank you Roy and Izzy for getting these changes in.

Translation: dear thieves please uninstall. Ktnksbye.

even worse now

none of my teammates are affected, pingplotter shows 50 ms to servers, i see 100 ms in game, feels like 1000 ms due to slide show

Just reroll….. there is no valid path to hope for this class.
Unless you have a team to carry you, it won’t be worth to play thief in HoT… at all.

reroll revenant or engi, enjoy raids… i am not kidding :/

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Woo with half the classes getting stealth plus super speed and vampirism nerf thief may actually get pushed out of the meta and the “thief is fine cuz it’s been meta forever and sb5” crowd can kitten.

in 3 years™

i think it is pretty clear now how much they are interested in keeping thief viable in pvp

the nerfs and hot changes just speak for themself

Well, general forum conclusion: thief is weak.

Gnereal pvp forum conclusion: thief is weak because of sb5.

Reddit conclusion: thief will be garbage in every area of this game.

Please no dire. We don’t need that wvw plague in pvp.

Stealing whirling axe from warrior. Warrior and ranger started attacking me with LB, i used whirling axe, they died to own damage, they cried that i hacked….. -_-

Went down in clocktower in khylo, enemy started to stomp me, i used thief downstate port to port to balcony, they stood for a while wondering apprently what happend, then tehy realized where i went, started to stomp me again, i used blinding powder from downed state. they couldn’t finish stomp. They started the stomp again, by that time my port was up again and i ported on the edge of the clocktower roof. Enemy stood there again wondering apprently where i went. I managed to get rez, he finally realized where i was and said he reported me for hacking -_-

If i remember correctly due to how many players instance can hold at the same time.

Maybe one day Anet will find time and recources to implement free camera and also allow anyone to watch matches.

In league you don’t exactly watch match, you watch delayed recording of it.

I just report every person i see in LFG selling pathes.

WE ARE ESPARTS GUIZE!!!

I hope it works out, more money → more teams -> more pvpers -> shorter queue times and hopefully more frequent balance patches.

Wasn’t somewhere a post that making different races sit on same object proved to be one of the most challenging thing to implement lol?

… can ownership of the dungeon be implemented again to prevent dungeon griefing as we have it atm. I am talking about opening dungeon, getting to last boss and getting kicked because someone wanted to get their guildmates in or sell dungeon.

Fractal is nothing else but dungeon as well. I see exact same issue happening there too.

Old system wasn’t perfect, especially when owner would DC and never come back. So i suggest following:
- as long as dungeon owner is online, you can’t kick him from group. Or like in old system: if you kick dungeon owner whilst they are online, everyone gets kicked from instance.
- if dungeon owner is offline for longer than 5 min you can kick him w/o consequences.

Please, it really needs to happen to prevent griefing that is too common atm. And having dungeon dedicated guild is not a solution. Most dungeon guilds expect A LOT from members (you have to play specific class, you have to have specific gear, you have to 100% rep, you have to be there at appointed times no matter job/family etc.), way too much dedication which i dare to say many players don’t have time for.

dd ele? i just look at them and say: yeahhh…… i am out of here~
if blinding ashes and burning fire didn’t exist you could have some chance but this 2 traits completely deny any counter

i can deal with most mes though

Belial.9350:

Shadowstep.6049:

Yeah the only problem with pugquest is it is farmed by ESL winners.

I’ve never seen a single member of abjured in it, I also rarely see members of the top 4 teams there either – not sure where you’re getting this from.

check EU pugquest