Guild Wars 2

choovanski.5462:

Shadowstep.6049:

choovanski.5462:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

choovanski.5462:

sinject.4607:

coglin.1867:

It saddens me to see so many post from “thief” players who do not even understand what their professional mechanic is. It is also sad to see the inaccurate claims from thief players stating you cannot stealth without initiative. Initiative is the professional mechanic, and you can stealth with runes+certain utility skills as well as certain utility and heal skills alone, using no initiative at all. My understanding is that stealth is intended to be a defencive mechanism, and it can and should be counterable. The abuse of this mechanic is what draws ire to it.

there is no parallel to what anti-stealth skills do to thief when compared to other profession’s defensive mechanics and their respective counters. stealth at this point is our only viable defensive option as we literally have no good out-of-stealth playstyles any more.

and i dont think anyone actually said any of the things you said they did, and you trying to “prove” these imaginary people otherwise only expands on how badly of a counter revealed skills are when they can entirely shutdown multiple utilities (nobody uses any stealth runes), a heal, and weapon skills.

feel like mesmers would understand that?

they have stealth elites & utilities just like theif. they rely on stealth for defense just like theif.

Mesmers do not have their condition purging, damage, and defense all tied to stealth.
Mesmers also have access to protection.

thief has access to protection too, and thief has defenses, damage, and condi clear outside of stealth too.

and anyway, its not like anyone is going to run the gyro anyway, or even any of engineers other reveals. because they all compete with far superior traits and skills.

what? since when?

which defenses and condi cleanse? evades you mean? yeah those are great untill you run out of dodges/ini or fight smart player that knows how to land attack between evade frames in after casts….

revenant don’t exist eh?

you got boon rip and mesmer steal

so i have to rely on enemy to have prot which is not covered by all kind of crap
and actually land steal on mesmer (that needs to exist from begin with)
that is like saying thief has access to burning because he runs generosity sigil and happend to fight burn guard….

at this point, it is easier just to run with guardian or rev around that gives you boons…

Yeah the only problem with pugquest is it is farmed by ESL winners.

choovanski.5462:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

choovanski.5462:

sinject.4607:

coglin.1867:

It saddens me to see so many post from “thief” players who do not even understand what their professional mechanic is. It is also sad to see the inaccurate claims from thief players stating you cannot stealth without initiative. Initiative is the professional mechanic, and you can stealth with runes+certain utility skills as well as certain utility and heal skills alone, using no initiative at all. My understanding is that stealth is intended to be a defencive mechanism, and it can and should be counterable. The abuse of this mechanic is what draws ire to it.

there is no parallel to what anti-stealth skills do to thief when compared to other profession’s defensive mechanics and their respective counters. stealth at this point is our only viable defensive option as we literally have no good out-of-stealth playstyles any more.

and i dont think anyone actually said any of the things you said they did, and you trying to “prove” these imaginary people otherwise only expands on how badly of a counter revealed skills are when they can entirely shutdown multiple utilities (nobody uses any stealth runes), a heal, and weapon skills.

feel like mesmers would understand that?

they have stealth elites & utilities just like theif. they rely on stealth for defense just like theif.

Mesmers do not have their condition purging, damage, and defense all tied to stealth.
Mesmers also have access to protection.

thief has access to protection too, and thief has defenses, damage, and condi clear outside of stealth too.

and anyway, its not like anyone is going to run the gyro anyway, or even any of engineers other reveals. because they all compete with far superior traits and skills.

what? since when?

which defenses and condi cleanse? evades you mean? yeah those are great untill you run out of dodges/ini or fight smart player that knows how to land attack between evade frames in after casts….

revenant don’t exist eh?

SlayerSixx.5763:

-stats revealed training- welp, looks like perma power boost.

yeah let’s lose access to highest dmg spell, whole defensive traitline and immob just for measy 200 power…. sounds like crappy trade off to me

just a rare exception (only because enemy wasn’t organized lol)
enemy had 2 necros, we had ele and mes as non-thief

i have to thank those guys for actually not ragequiting and trying till the end, especially ele, he held point like a baus in 2v3 situation

Outside of matches latency is OK, inside match maps it is just constant DC.

forum bug forum bug + 15 naked charrs

Nocta.5274:

Try to imagine the life as non thief class if you can lose to thief easily, and that thief can literally run around the map 2 time faster than you.

Do you see any thief asking to buff them to a point that they can easily take out other classes? I don’t.

All thieves ask for is having fair chance vs at least some classes.

roleplaying

/15 chars

Thief doesn’t need more evades, they need plain dmg mitigation (prot, dmg redux, condi resistance, you name it).

10th dec wasn’t just ini changes… around that time head shot was nerfed, followed by BP nerf…

Omega Zoa.3859:

bad roamer?…lol..i watched a thief solo kill three people..

please video …. i highly doubt 1 thief can solo 3 players unless they are totally new to game

Don’t bother posting here. Every non-thief player will tell you: the class is “fine”. They will just tell you, you should be avoiding battles and decap enemy points (funny enough if you only do that, everyone rages at you). I especially love those cases when team ends up with 2-3 thieves and your own teammates harass you or even go afk if you don’t switch to something else besides thief.

Thief lost powercreep battle because thief dev obviously went for balance while other devs – for powercreep.

I think in the light of specs and general state of classes, thief just really needs update. Our mechanics and whole trade off design is just outdated. Period.

I am not going to put which trait or spell should be changed, it is not my job. I will just list what we really lacking:

- we need ways to get through blocks/invuls. Reason is: before spec patch and HoT specs invuls and blocks were something rather rare. Now it is is everywhere and too frequent. Combine it with blinds/perma weakness/prot we just have close to no window to do any dmg. Given how risky thief is already it is just too unrewarding to even bother do any dmg. What is the point of high risk anymore even?

- We need more ways to remove weakness. Our main survival is in stealth/dodges and offensive dmg. We do NOT have anything else really. Possibly moblity to run away, but it is not survival in battle. Weakness is too prevalent imo. I understand why SE was changed and accounting all the burning flying around atm i guess the change was good but it doesn’t change the fact that we really need some way to get rid of weakness.

- We DESPERADELY need some dmg mitigation. Whole glass cannon logic does not work anymore. It made sense when classes needed to sacrifice survival for dmg or dmg for survival but it is not the case anymore. Everyone is extremely bunkery now while dishing too much dmg. We are ONLY class in entire game that still has to drop everything (including mobility/cc) in form of survival stats/utilities/CDs/ini to actually do any meaningful dmg to enemy. It also gets worse when you account all the passives and aoes other classses have. Give us prot, condi resistance idc. JUST ANYTHING. Stealth/evades simply won’t cut it in HoT.

- Condis, condis everywhere. 2 years ago avoiding some attacks and ocasionaly a circle would do it. Not anymore. You get condi on you by just being in fighting area, so much aoe; you hit someone -> you get condis on you; someone moves/ports to you -> you get condis. How the hell are we supposely to actively react to such passive design? Wtb more condi cleanse. Nothing else to say here.

- as cringeworthy it is, as brainless it is, we need more passives. I do not see other classes passives getting suddenly nerfed for the sake of thief. So, if you can’t beat them, join them. We need some (defensive) passive.

- give us SOMETHING to counter reveal. Anything. Please. If not, then give us ability to shut down half of other classes mechanics to make it fair. Thank you.

Discuss.

Photinous.4628:

The amount of tankiness that Anet has just thrown around like candy in these elite specializations is insane. It is nearly impossible to get through the ridiculous layers of sustain, toughness, and blocks that these new elites have now.

besides thieves (cough)

It is already dead, we had funeral on tuesday https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Event-UPDATED-funeral-for-Thief-class/first

Too much aoe, too many passives, too many brainless counters too thief, too many survival tools on other classes. Thief got…… few additional traits to sd build (still doesn’t bring it back to old state) +1 extra dodge. That is.

No real dmg besides same old BS or AA, no real counters to other classes, NO dmg mitigation, laughable condi cleanse, laughable acess to stab. Also new build is so sooo extremely selfish, it has ZERO team support.

There is just so much wrong with thief and new spec especially, it is probably easier to list what is NOT wrong with the class.

i have normal 15-20 sec depending on traitline

use stolen spell on rev, he uses UA…….. enjoy wasting all your dodges on it~

i was talking mostly from pve perspective about condis, sitting here having multiple condis ticking and waiting till npc actually attacks…. :s
for pvp drd is just too lackluster compared to standard dp sa, besides i hate gameplay based around dodges – eventually you will run out of endurance or face someone that knows how to time attacks and/or has persistent aoe = GG

you also give up a lot of team utility for that build

i can live w/o trickery traits on some builds, having less ini tho is too painful…. hence why it is mandatory

i know it would cause endless QQ but i do think extra ini should be baseline, it would open so many more builds~

I am not enjoying DrD

Condi removal on dodge is ONLY if you actually dodge attack; it doesn’t remove condi on dodge (cringe).

New dodges are still bound to GM…. honestly, what a joke. I found none of them actually THAT useful if you think that you have to trait GM for it.

Whole trait line is weird mix of dodges/offensive effects but i don’t feel any synergy in it. Maybe i am running wrong build but i feel pre HoT builds are still better and more polished(pve and pvp). DrD is just clunky and honestly idk how to fix it. It is probably easier just to remake entire trait line.

aka bring your warrior guize

This game would lose a lot of players if this would get implemented lol.

@Amante.8109: so what would it be then? Another warrior?

other classes devs went for powercreep, our dev went for balance in vacuum + 0 communication between them….. go figure

Zero Day.2594:

Oh they will probably nerf it….

And buff our trap damage by 20%.

that^^

Anyone who played this game for long time knows exactly which kind of “buffs” Anet gives thieves.

So let’s assume they nerf sb5, knowing anet it will take them at least year to actually make any changes….

Do you really want to wait so long? You think other will?

And just out of curiosity, what do you think thief will do after sb5 gets nerfed? Bruiser? They were never ment for it… Bunker? lol….. You want to be another sf ele? I personally don’t.

Sb5 isn’t reason why thieves are in sad state right now, reason is endless qq from players that never touched thief class and devs having 0 interest in this class.

The class was in ok spot before spec patch, nobody cried about sb5…. the real thing what happend is:
devs from other classes went for powercreep
our dev went for balance in vacuum

0 communication in dev team would lead to that.

But i guess constant repeated mantra that thieves supposed to be weak because of mobility srsly got branded into some heads. Look around, we are only class with huge opportunity costs and trades off. And we are still sitting here being humble and asking to nerf us for some measy buffs that will place us even worse than where we are???? Wow.

That is like a man having no legs asking to cut off his arms as well so he finally can get phone to use voice activation…..

Idk, i have yet to face a pp thief after patch that posed a threat. Killed every single of them on standard dp w/o breaking a sweat. Steal, backstab, few AA and they are dead usually.

chibbi.3706:

Shadowstep.6049:

I lately decided to play thief like Anet wanted us to play thieves – avoid fights and cap empty points. So i did few of those matches. Now i made rather interesting observations in those matches (note i wasn’t engaging any fights):
- my team could reaaaalllllyyy rarely win team fights, but usually not, even those that were in their favor
- most scores went around 100-500 in enemy favor
- i had usually (second) highest score on the board (not that it matters, but point is i did contribute to team in thief ways)

I know it would be rather not completely right assumption but by the look of it the game actually expects me to carry the rest of those 400ish points by myself. I am actually expected to win team fights for the team, even those that are favorable for them. Why is this even the case?
I understand that me not joining fights may have negative effect on outcome (althrough during those fights i was capping something anyway) BUT the score shouldn’t be THAT low just because 1 member is rather capping points instead of fighting in big fights.

I have had games in the past when i actually had good team but we had one Dc that never came back. If the team was good we actually would sometimes win or at least score was pretty close. The matches from yesterday were however very lopsided. Which leaves me to think that game gives you very bad odds and expects you to carry like 2-3 people would if you want to win the match. That is really wrong on many levels.

I hope you’re not being serious, because I actually had you in my team and you were the sole reason we lost.

How was i the reason? I did cap empty points whenever one was available. My point is, the game score shouldn’t have been that drastic just because i was (forced) avoiding fights.

why even attack?

vamp runes allowed?

I lately decided to play thief like Anet wanted us to play thieves – avoid fights and cap empty points. So i did few of those matches. Now i made rather interesting observations in those matches (note i wasn’t engaging any fights):
- my team could reaaaalllllyyy rarely win team fights, but usually not, even those that were in their favor
- most scores went around 100-500 in enemy favor
- i had usually (second) highest score on the board (not that it matters, but point is i did contribute to team in thief ways)

I know it would be rather not completely right assumption but by the look of it the game actually expects me to carry the rest of those 400ish points by myself. I am actually expected to win team fights for the team, even those that are favorable for them. Why is this even the case?
I understand that me not joining fights may have negative effect on outcome (althrough during those fights i was capping something anyway) BUT the score shouldn’t be THAT low just because 1 member is rather capping points instead of fighting in big fights.

I have had games in the past when i actually had good team but we had one Dc that never came back. If the team was good we actually would sometimes win or at least score was pretty close. The matches from yesterday were however very lopsided. Which leaves me to think that game gives you very bad odds and expects you to carry like 2-3 people would if you want to win the match. That is really wrong on many levels.

yeah let’s forget dd exists and only viable defensive trait line in pvp is SA…

i know s/d thieves don’t like dp but we really shouldn’t be trying to get each other destroyed…. given current state of thieve

gl using unload vs anyone with brain and/or interrupts (sup mesmers)

Yeah dp is soooo OP, your only role in pvp as dp consist of avoiding fights and afking at empty points.

apharma.3741:

Hold on, I got a violin here somewhere, it’s all tiny and stuff….

Also is this you admitting to the intent to grief players because that’s not a smart move.

How is it intent to grief players? I play according to dev design and what players asked for.

RedDeadFred.1256:

Poor poor child….

May your toxic tears ever fall before the stoically disregarding devs .

I am well aware that devs couldn’t care less about what thieves think, want, suggest etc. I will just stop protesting and accept the way they want me to play.

Few screenshot for those who couldn’t be with us on EU during this time.

I think given that we had really short time to organize it, it went good. We went through LA to memorial and then to lighthouse…. from which we jumped into abyss.

Thanks to everyone who came to procession and said their good byes to the class.

P.S. i am personally off to play this game by dev design – avoiding fights in pvp and caping empty points.
P.S.S. the rage from teammates is real even tho i end up with highest score xD

forum bug fix + 15 charrs

even in 8 min

20 min till event~

Garrisyl.7402:

Yes, start griefing other players. That’ll show Anet!

Other players griefed us with their unreasonable QQ and demands. I am just doing what players asked for.

Just thought i will leave it here – i am going on personal mission.

From now on i will play my thief without any complains in pvp as devs intented me to with their amazing balancing – stay away from any fights.
I already found most optimal way to do it: sit afk somewhere (preferably spawn).

Enjoy your games

i couldn’t help it

I felt like it fits:

Thief vs necro is like vs any class right now: you have to rely on them doing huge mistakes.

Wait untill leagues. It doesn’t seem like soloq will be added so there will be even more premades farming solo players for glorious wings.

Jasher.6580:

How is that a troll post? When since did truth become trolling?

mods bann for truth frequently actually

docMed.7692:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Supreme.3164:

Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that must invest in defense-

Hold on…..*why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody

Like…:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..

We dont even have the sustain to 1v1 the dps specs right now. Just thought I’d mention that.

This is strawmanning. asking for general 1v1 sustain does not = “want to win against tank specs”. Stealth does nothing for us at the moment combat wise but delay death.

Really? What pure-dps specs do you have trouble with (maybe burst guard or burst engi, but even then they can be dealt with – albeit at a slower pace)? Thieves dominate most power builds (war/ranger/mesmer/other thieves) and struggle vs high condi-pressure builds (condi engi, condi necro) or sustain builds (d/d ele, tank necro/etc). I agree thief is certainly boring to play at the moment, but it is hardly underpowered and every top tier team has 1 for a reason.

wat? are we playing same game?

i see nothing wrong with website and it’s content~

do ranked?
/15 charrs with apples