Vault has too much baked in for such ini costs, especially compared to other high damage attacks from thief. Either ini costs need to be increased considerably or one of the aspects of vault needs a nerf (dmg reduction, shorter evade frame). Vault didn’t actually have evade at begin, we asked for something for such long animation to be viable but i still can’t believe they gave it such high dmg as well – once again devs listen only to part of the feedback.
Then again, i look at scrapper hammer and think “Nvm” :s
…There’s a huge punish frame on vault. Massive. It’s actually so risky to use vault against good players because of that…Need me to demonstrate to you? Those complaining about vaults really need to learn to play. Obvious telegraphs and it’s a lot of ini to use a skill against someone good who will just simply dodge it or interrupt it. As someone said above, it’s only good for cleaving rezzers and it’s a BM skill to use against bad players. Other than that, vault shouldn’t be really touched at all except for mobility and cleaving rezzers.
Who are you to tell me l2p lol?
The punish frame is not that huge, if you want to know what real punish frame is go play necro or ele. Also, still doesn’t change the fact that it deals backstab dmg, aoe, has invade built in, gap closer, costs only 5 ini, doesn’t require stealth, doesn’t root you in place w/o evade frame. Compare it all to backstab or pw requirements, costs and what they can do.
She thinks for some reasons that Anet would actually buff thieves if d/p gets nerfed – what a delusion. People will just play staff and Anet will as always push condi build on us. Real reason why all those wvw heroes want d/p nerfed is because it ruins their day as d/d.
If you think d/p is strong that it requires nerfs – go play core d/p in high tiers of pvp and please record so we can all see how OP it is. I bet it would be great show.
I am against proposed change. Reaper is already pretty hard to kill if they have pocket healer in form of druid, engi (for rezzes) or ele (and necro is my most played character after thief btw). Yes, necros don’t deal well with focus fire and they are not as mobile but every class has to have some kind of weakness. Remember s2 when it was pita to kill necros? We don’t need that again. Last thing this game needs is more powercreep.
If necros start to heal in shroud it can be abused so much no matter in which form you implement it. If you want heals in shroud then say good bye to high HP pool and embrace the 11k club.
Why don’t you go play core thief to legend – let’s see how you enjoy abundance of blocks and reveals that you guys added to game.
a thief crying about stealth? Ahahaha this made my day. Thief has the lowest CD on blocks, has enough evades, ports, dodge attackes and stealth btw. and they still cry. sorry im cracking up, always good to laugh in the morning.
^^What a trash post.
It is not crying, it is valid complain. Thanks to abundance of the AoE and reveals introduced with HoT the stealth builds (aka core) were effectively deleted from pvp – meaning balancing team did a very very very poor job (unless it was on purpose, which is even worse and i have a feeling this was the case).
Trickery was always mandatory, DD became also a must have since there is no alternative left, which leaves thief with 1 option for trait line which once again is basically mandatory.
Block requires DD and eats utility slot. Evades are provided by either condi d/d that can’t kill anything and still requires DD, s/d that gets nuked by everything or DD – mandatory once again. Thieves don’t have THAT many ports actually – shs is long cd, steal is also on relative long CD, sb5 locks you in a weaponset that otherwise is pretty useless in most cases. Bound requires DD – once again DD is mandatory, 0 alternative. Stealth is hardcountered and is hardly useful in combat nowadays.
My complain is that due to crappy balancing job and poor decisions they forced thieves into dodge spam DD and removed every other build from pvp. But here, a vial for all your salt, you obviously need it.
Reducing the amount of stealth u can stack would hurt a lot in pvp, and that would require anet to buff thieves into the amount where they can take equal or 1v1 fights.
The easier it is to track a thief, the easier it is to rotate doesn’t matter what kind of mobility you have when they know where you are or when you are coming. hence stealth stacking is a must in spvp. Or big compensations to make thief some god 1v1er/sustain in smaller fights.
If you feel its mostly in wvw or whatever then i hope for your sake anet splits the stealthing mechanics so the nerfs applies in wvw and not in spvp
Except Anet has 0 interest in making thief any viable in 1v1 situations. In fact, last thing i remember from them was that they don’t want thief be strong in any 1v1 fights because of their mobility and ability to +1 (because clearly other classes can’t do it lol).
You are correct about why thieves aren’t allowed to be strong in even fights. The problem I’ve noticed from the other side is that thief mobility is no longer that special post HoT. Sind says it best….you have to stack stealth to beat get a significant jump to a node over the person guarding it. HoT gave ALL classes such extra mobility that even a vigilant DH can prevent the decap on most maps.
As for the fella saying I main a dp thief….no. I don’t play thief but main mesmer. Was forced to learn all I could about thieves during the brief time when I was hard countered.
That is the issue – devs don’t see it. In their mind thieves have amazing mobility thus should be weak in every other aspect. Who cares that druids have RTL on 15 sec CD, revs have better chasing mobility than thieves, mes have group ports etc.
Vault has too much baked in for such ini costs, especially compared to other high damage attacks from thief. Either ini costs need to be increased considerably or one of the aspects of vault needs a nerf (dmg reduction, shorter evade frame). Vault didn’t actually have evade at begin, we asked for something for such long animation to be viable but i still can’t believe they gave it such high dmg as well – once again devs listen only to part of the feedback.
Then again, i look at scrapper hammer and think “Nvm” :s
SB is utility weapon – you use it for mobility and cleave. Thief is not meant for anything but running away and +1 (cause 3v2, 2v1 situations). Devs don’t want thieves to be anything else, that is why – they somehow think thieves are only class with mobility so thieves are OP kek.
Fast paced and mobile is rev – which was upgraded version more tanky version of thief. Try out mesmer maybe if you don’t like rev? Current build is condi but the burst can be still decent and they got few spells that allow them to live for a while. The only real bunkers in this game are all slow (wars, engis, guards).
Reducing the amount of stealth u can stack would hurt a lot in pvp, and that would require anet to buff thieves into the amount where they can take equal or 1v1 fights.
The easier it is to track a thief, the easier it is to rotate doesn’t matter what kind of mobility you have when they know where you are or when you are coming. hence stealth stacking is a must in spvp. Or big compensations to make thief some god 1v1er/sustain in smaller fights.
If you feel its mostly in wvw or whatever then i hope for your sake anet splits the stealthing mechanics so the nerfs applies in wvw and not in spvp
Except Anet has 0 interest in making thief any viable in 1v1 situations. In fact, last thing i remember from them was that they don’t want thief be strong in any 1v1 fights because of their mobility and ability to +1 (because clearly other classes can’t do it lol).
Funnily enough I mostly played power necro when climbing to legend last season. The build I played is pretty janky, but it was a fun change of pace and ended up being a bit better than I expected.
Depending on the amount of condi builds on the enemy team I would swap in plague signet, and if the enemy comp was super condi heavy I would swap SR for curses to get the extra plague signet proc as well.
Not trying to say power necro is top tier or anything but it was good enough to win games with and pretty fun to play.
Why don’t you go play core thief to legend – let’s see how you enjoy abundance of blocks and reveals that you guys added to game.
Has it really come to this? Has it really come to the point where people are asking for nerfs on a viable build so they would feel like other builds are stronger and can keep up the pace with d/p?
The second they would implement this ICD thing there would be a huge outcry from the whole thief community, everyone in this thread included. But then it would be too late. Just like it’s too late for backstab. I know nobody asked for backstab, but people very fast accepted it and some even said it was a good thing. Just like in that story where fox couldn’t reach the grapes to quench the thirst, so it said they are probably sour.
Many other professions are catching up on stealth with us and now you wanna nerf our stealth even more?
Better ask for buffs on less used weapons/skills/traits rather than gutting one of the few relatively decent things we still have.
Don’t bother, Jana syndrome is contagious it seems. There is no cure.
They should just remove alacrity from mes. Suddenly more classes are viable.
Genius!
Well, why do you bring mes? For CD recharge and quickness. Limit those – 2 mes per raid is not mandatory anymore. They bring so much atm – you have to have a mes this causes too much class limitation for raid groups.
OK let’s debunk this again. D/P is not the best weapon set for thieves. That title belongs to staff. In fact I don’t think D/P directly counters ANY class in this in the entire game.
Now I’m assuming we got your typical D/D enthusiasts once again making the push to nerf D/P, but D/D is performing perfectly fine and needs no buffs period.
Now the rest of the people prolly play Sword….sorry but nuking D/P ain’t going on help ya. The devs needed to kill your favorite play style to make room for daredevil.
Also your supposed change would kill Shadow Refuse. An entire skill destroyed for no reason. I don’t even play this class but why am I the one identifying this?
Its time to embrace change and move along with the game.
p.s. stealth is hardly a problem in pvp from thieves.
Nah, it is all WvW heroes thinking that other modes should suffer for the sake of their beloved duels. Thief will always be nerfed, people always will cry about class because it relies on mechanics that your average Joe doesn’t like to deal with – evades and stealth. I have seen people asking to delete the class because they don’t fight “honorably”.
The design of Stealth access D/P has access to has always been one of the main reasons for all the Nerfs and hardcounters being implemented.
Keep telling yourself that. Clearly acro also got nerfed because of dp lel.
OK let’s debunk this again. D/P is not the best weapon set for thieves. That title belongs to staff. In fact I don’t think D/P directly counters ANY class in this in the entire game.
Now I’m assuming we got your typical D/D enthusiasts once again making the push to nerf D/P, but D/D is performing perfectly fine and needs no buffs period.
Now the rest of the people prolly play Sword….sorry but nuking D/P ain’t going on help ya. The devs needed to kill your favorite play style to make room for daredevil.
Also your supposed change would kill Shadow Refuse. An entire skill destroyed for no reason. I don’t even play this class but why am I the one identifying this?
Its time to embrace change and move along with the game.
p.s. stealth is hardly a problem in pvp from thieves.
Nah, it is all WvW heroes thinking that other modes should suffer for the sake of their beloved duels. Thief will always be nerfed, people always will cry about class because it relies on mechanics that your average Joe doesn’t like to deal with – evades and stealth. I have seen people asking to delete the class because they don’t fight “honorably”.
Shadowstep this isn’t a Nerf thread but a way to fix why we have always been nerfed.
Except they won’t fix anything – they will just flat out nerf stealth and will continue to do so. 4 years should have taught you something. They can add CD on stealth – there will be still QQ. They can remove stealth which they basically did in HoT – there is still QQ and nerfs.
Ssssure, if they remove reveal from other classes and make stealth reduce dmg w/o traiting into it. Knowing Anet however, they will just flat out nerf thief again w/o any compensation. I would refrain from nerf threads if i were you – nothing good ever came from those, only thief being garbage for seasons.
@OP: Keep destroying your class? lmao…wtf r u talking about?! XD Who cares if you get revealed? Do you not have like a bajillion teleports and dodges to kite away until the few seconds of reveal go away?! lmao R u telling me that ur such a bad thief that if u got revealed, u’ll just insta-die right away?! bahahahahhahaha
That is the problem with reveals on demand – every thief in pvp is forced into dodge spam because alternative builds are stupidly hardcountered. Simply giving reveals like this, especially on low CD killed build diversity for thieves.
Easy to say “dodge” but when there are 5-10 thrash mobs with attack animations which are all almost invisible and you get 1hit by all of them…. and then there is the toxic trail too… i get conditions applied to me like hell even when i perma dodge i die… once my dodges run out after vigor heal and signet im dead….
That is why you use s/p for trash mobs…. and malice.
just because you win against someone doesnt mean they are bad. maybe youre just a lil better than them. or they having a bad day. i was in a match when i defending a home point but i decided to type something to my team then a thief came and burst me while im not looking and died. then he type in chat noob. did that make him good and me a bad player? we won that match also.
Here is proof: for thief to win DH has to afk and type messages.
I soloed some DHs in diamond/legend on thief because they were bad and got carried by the build in divisions where they don’t belong. This video doesn’t show anything but that better player can still win game with handicap (e.g. thief vs dhs) vs worse players.
PW with escapist for condis and trash mobs
get defensive pots with mastery
melee is around 450ish (depeneding on weapon), try to stand on very edge of melee to mobs
thief is probably easiest class to run fractals on if you know what you are doing
Posts like this pretty much doom any player that is maining class that is currently “not viable” for qT elitist speed runs.
Nope. Anet dooms those builds by their sledgehammer approach to “balancing”. Unfortunately, the differences between “optimal” and “not recommended” setups are so big, that, for all practical reasons, only the small groups of top skilled raiders can afford to take them. An average pug just has to be aware of the fact, that taking any of the hugely suboptimal builds can signifixcantly negatively impact their success chances.
What is worse, now we are going to have revs being insta-kicked from raids (yesterday i had to listen to chrono throwing tantrum about how rev is useless and we should kick him zzzz) which will result in a lot of QQ which once again will result in some massive buffs to revs and cause them being stupidly broken in pvp and wvw.
Which points again to most problems you brought up resulting from not paying attention to what you read.
The post linked up above clearly states that
qT
In the end if your group still decides to run with a Revenant, it won’t make the difference between success or failure in a raid, Rev still brings some nice utility to a group but is now an optional safe, decent DPS choice rather than a mandatory slot in a raid group as it was before the patch.
Reading comprehension ftw.
I am well aware what they wrote. They wrote whole paragraph about how you shouldn’t bring rev to raid and then added small sentence in the end that rev is ok. Maybe you are not capable of reading what i wrote and don’t understand my issue with their blanket statement and how community reacts to it. Look in the mirror. Reading comprehension ftw.
Also, Anet balances raids around accepted not elitist levels. Not to mention there are other modes in this game that suffered since HoT came out because of balancing around raids.
How is it helping when they write: build X is not viable.
My problem is not what i am reading from it, my problem is that they just so easily label what is useless and not, even though it is far from truth and they are well aware that every raid group will follow that labeling bs causing a lot of griefing. This is toxic.
That is why there should be disclaimer with big letters right in the begin of the post: HELLO THIS IS OPTIMAL BUILDS FOR SPEED ELITIST 6 MAN RUNS. Hello, this build is not the best for speed runs etc. not just: this is not viable. Posts like this pretty much doom any player that is maining class that is currently “not viable” for qT elitist speed runs.
That’s rather rude to assume. I’ve seen plenty of groups take “other” classes with far from meta build. It’s also up to the raid organizer to choose what he/she wants in his/her raid. Sure a few are going to ask for specifics, but that’s up to them to decide. It’s not unreasonable for them to do this as they don’t know you or your skill level, but they can know your gear/build. You’re welcomed to make your own raid as well with your own requirement as well if you don’t agree.
It happens more often than you think, i have multiple characters for raid, i don’t even bother to join on rev anymore due to instakick. Problem is with organizing own groups is in example i brought before: chrono joins, we have a rev, chrono starts to throw tantrum that we should kick rev because rev is “not viable”, we don’t kick rev, chrono quits. Sure, i can organize own group, but i can’t solo raids and i can’t stop players that join the group from blindly following that elitist bs. Chronos are especially an issue right now – you kind of need them and they know it, so they attempt to dictate you what to run and not. Thanks to lazy labeling from qT and people mindlessly following it now you have wonderful choice of either being a jerk and kick rev or lose a chrono tank.
How is it helping when they write: build X is not viable.
My problem is not what i am reading from it, my problem is that they just so easily label what is useless and not, even though it is far from truth and they are well aware that every raid group will follow that labeling bs causing a lot of griefing. This is toxic.
That is why there should be disclaimer with big letters right in the begin of the post: HELLO THIS IS OPTIMAL BUILDS FOR SPEED ELITIST 6 MAN RUNS. Hello, this build is not the best for speed runs etc. not just: this is not viable. Posts like this pretty much doom any player that is maining class that is currently “not viable” for qT elitist speed runs.
What is worse, now we are going to have revs being insta-kicked from raids (yesterday i had to listen to chrono throwing tantrum about how rev is useless and we should kick him zzzz) which will result in a lot of QQ which once again will result in some massive buffs to revs and cause them being stupidly broken in pvp and wvw.
I’m just happy to survive power burst thieves. But, yeah, they always run for their life with shadowstep 3 and 4 times in a row with initiatives that never seem to run out.
I won’t even get into the ridiculous amount of stealth and being able to attack and deal damage while stealthed. That’s something I’ve never seen any stealth class able to do in any other game I’ve played.
Shadowstep has 50 sec CD. 3-4 times in a row, how?
Ini does run out, pretty fast too, hence why trickery is must have. Smart thief just doesn’t waste it mindlessly.
Stealth is contra-productive in conquest in most cases – can’t hold point in stealth. Not to mention the abundance of revs and scrappers in high tiers made stealth-based specs obsolete.
Are you seriously complaining about trapper thief that nobody plays in pvp LOL? Is this WvW forum? The build is also noob stomper, anyone with half brain doesn’t die to that.
Stealth is also supposed to be thief main mechanic, just saying. In other games thief-like classes also have other mechanics that thieves in gw2 don’t have (e.g. complete immunity to magic dmg, completely disarming enemy so they can’t use weapon spells, high access to stuns etc.) People would cry rivers if thief had even half of the spells my rogue had in WoW. Imagine thieves could cast multiple backstabs in a row with basi venom for 6 sec straight. From all games i have played (and i played quite few) thief stealth in this game is actually quite balanced.
I like how they write prof XY is not viable and then post tiny comment to the main post like: "Ok so I want to make something clear. If we say something like: “something something is not viable”, we don’t mean you can’t play this class/build anymore. For us, viable is almost the same as optimal, since we are a hardcore speedclear guild and only look at stuff that will help us getting fast and good kills."
THEN WRITE FLIPPING DISCLAIMER IN BEGIN OF THE POST. There is enough of monkeys blindly following such posts and thinking prof XY can’t be taken in the raid anymore.
This guild is prime example why raid community gets so toxic on first place.
I would love my DH to have 3k + armor like my druid. I would love my DH to have 20k HP like my necro. I would love my guard to have speed like my herald and Mesmer.
I need defense, not nerf’d defense. I would like my DH to hit 7k + crits on players like warriors hit on my DH, but I have to sacrifice dmg for defense.
I’m not looking for defense of my DH to be nerf’d.
Or you could try to play thief and realize that only thing you can do is dodge and then run for your life.
The problem is not one specific build but DH spec and the buffs from previous patch. Regardless whether you run traps or symbols you still have DH traits that provide traps with too much utility. Both of those builds run ToF, both of those builds have Hunters determination and piercing light. Traps are size of a point, stackable and are instant (no way to interrupt) – which is not helping at all. Symbols are size of a point – also doesn’t help. If you fight DH, you have to give up point unless you have access to ungodly amount of invuls/blocks etc. Then there are DH virtues that are just too good, especially if you consider non-DH version. Throw few DHs togethers – you have crap load of red fields covering entire point and each DH sharing boons and heals with each other.
Imagine if thieves had aoe backstab and black powder with size of a point and constantly shared heals and block with each other – sounds fun, doesn’t (omg forum filter cmon) it?
Just remove boon duration from gear (runes, sigils and co.) all together. But ofc they can’t do it because players spent money on it.
They could ofc add more team utility to revs but then it would break pvp/wvw.
I think balancing team shot themselves in the knee when they added those runes/sigils on first place.
It was always same problem – some classes offer a lot of team utility, some not so much, which results in group content such as raid in limitation of desired classes. Remember GWEN meta in wvw? Remember dungeon speed clears? Remember place (aka none) of thieves in raids in s1? Yeah….
Odd how it works in WoW regardless which class you play – there is always need in tanks, regardless which tank class. There is always need in dps and healers. If you don’t bring much group support as dps then you have one of the highest dps in game. And healers are so different that you actually try not to stack same kind but utilize different ones.
In GW2 we have dps with high group utility and high dps (sup eles) :|
I have couple characters for raid, was thinking to gear chrono as next, seeing as our groups always lacks one. Given that due to patch some things have changed, what is the build i should be working on for chrono?
To all of those saying make your own new players group: what if a player already killed bosses couple times and actually have experience and gear, just don’t have 80+ LI. The problem is most LFG want flippin 80+ LI (if not 150, yes i saw those) if you want to join. Yesterday i saw VG group requiring 30 LI to join – VG is first boss in raids, easiest thing ever (although escort is probably easier) and 30 LI for it? Are you nuts?
LI is such useless measure too. I have killed couple bosses with 1-2 players down half of the fight – those people got literary carried and got LI for being afk.
This is same crappy 10k+ AP requirements in dungeons all over again – i have had better runs with noobs even that actually listen than with elitists. Also, i would ban players for selling raid runs, dungeon runs and carry to legend. Will never understand why Anet would like to promote such behavior that causes nothing but toxicity.
It’s not like Anet can do anything about it though, just like they never did anything (because they couldn’t) with the AP requirements for dungeons.
It is not issue in fractals – because there are levels and AR requirements. They should have done something similar with raids.
To all of those saying make your own new players group: what if a player already killed bosses couple times and actually have experience and gear, just don’t have 80+ LI. The problem is most LFG want flippin 80+ LI (if not 150, yes i saw those) if you want to join. Yesterday i saw VG group requiring 30 LI to join – VG is first boss in raids, easiest thing ever (although escort is probably easier) and 30 LI for it? Are you nuts?
LI is such useless measure too. I have killed couple bosses with 1-2 players down half of the fight – those people got literary carried and got LI for being afk.
Also jokes on you elitists – chat codes still work.
This is same crappy 10k+ AP requirements in dungeons all over again – i have had better runs with noobs even that actually listen than with elitists. We had some ele on Gorse with 50 LI that got instantly down 24/7 – so much for 50 LI.
Also, i would ban players for selling raid runs, dungeon runs and carry to legend. Will never understand why Anet would like to promote such behavior that causes nothing but toxicity. Half of LFG yesterday was flooded with sells – can’t see actual raid messages among all that junk.
I will never understand why people suck up to elitists so much. Imo you can run anything in raids and clear bosses as long people are not completely afk and know what they are doing. Reason elitists would run certain classes or not is speed clear or 6 man clear or w/e – does your average raid group run speed clears? No.
You’re assuming you can put together a 4/4/2 with casuals in mediocre dps gear and healer gear and actually be able to beat these bosses now, Wrong! basically everyone in raid must use A+B+C meta builds or else you will only get the boss to enrage and GL killing the boss in enrage mode. At the end of the day it is the math and numbers that counts, (1000+500) x10 = cannot be anything other than 15k dps. 15k dps should be the minimum for any dps (excluding a PS war, but PS usually pulls around 13-14k), the nerfanant barely pulls 10-11k dps making it a huge dps loss if you bring one. Sorry to burst your bubble here but the math and the time required are pretty much all calculated at the end of the day in order to complete raids now. If you want to argue that all math is elitist and shouldn’t be implemented this way then go tell ANET to actually test their game before they make patches like this one.
I have killed bosses in enrage mode. But frankly most of the time the reason why boss gets to enrage mode on first place is because people go down and die too much (dodging is hard yo) so you waste more time rezzing them or having 1-2 man down completely. Issue is always between chair and monitor. Also, i would dare to say that most people that run raids have ascended gear with decent stats.
I will never understand why people suck up to elitists so much. Imo you can run anything in raids and clear bosses as long people are not completely afk and know what they are doing. Reason elitists would run certain classes or not is speed clear or 6 man clear or w/e – does your average raid group run speed clears? No.
On side note, all those complains from revs – i just can’t feel bad for them, considering in which state thief was in s1 (because of revs on first place) and in which bad state core builds are. In fact, i am starting to love this patch just for this very reason.
Nerfs to revs – indirect buffs to thieves, even if small <3
Olrun, the change to retribution made Rev harder to use for the general population. I think my point still stands, they are making changes that actively push out new or less dedicated players. Whether they are doing this in support of Pros or to meet some vision of their own doesn’t really matter, the outcome is the same.
That didn’t stop Anet from nerfing every single stealth attack on thieves, even from weapon sets that never saw the light of pvp.
That didn’t stop Anet from effectively deleting thieves and wars in s1 and s2 for the sake of sales.
Why should overtuned classes like revs get different treatment? Thieves should l2p and revs should have easy life because of noobs? How about no? If you are going to require high skill and dedication for being able to play a class and balance around such requirements then all classes should be treated like this not just 1-2 red headed children.
I look at all this rev QQ and think every time – if you all only knew how good you have it and how bad it was for thieves and wars in s1 (you literary got reported for playing the class before match even started) and how bad it is still for core builds. Instead of self pity go play core classes/builds for couple weeks at higher tiers – maybe then you will realize that revs are actually good and will be still taken by every top team.
What I want to know is how much counter play is required before people stop complaining about DH?
I really can’t think of much of anything on DH that doesn’t have very obvious strong counter play options now except for spear. (which will be the next to get the ax, no doubt) We’ve seen how often wings gets interrupted, like no doubt purification will now. Traps have literally the most counter play options. True shot is as obvious as seeing a double Decker bus coming at you. Shield of courage has obvious counter play. The knock back has to be aimed and can easily be dodged.
If there are any complaints left to levy, they have to do with spear or core guardian combinations. The DH specific stuff has plenty of options to counter play us now. We should be as predictable to fight as they come by now.
DHs is still way too easy to play for high rewards, too much room for errors. 1 DH may not be an issue, multiple DHs are, considering only real pvp mode we have is capture point – and DHs excel at point holding and point fights. Too many instants, too many blocks, too many heals, too much point coverage with aoe dmg etc. Yeah you can dodge traps and symbols but then you are often forced off-point or get knocked out so you give up point to DH. If you fight multiple DHs on point they will always have blocks up and entire area is covered in big damaging fields. Ranged isn’t an option either since some DHs run LB which does decent dmg as well. Necro would be good counter but due to lack of stab they get just CCd to death before they can actually be a threat to DH (which have decent condi cleanse).
Yeah i think class stacking really needs to be looked at. The classes are balanced around non-class stacking (e.g. 1 DH isn’t much of an issue, stacked DHs are) yet pvp allows class stacking. Even in OW stacking of the same character was disabled in competitive because it gave teams too much advantage on certain maps.
Certainly, nothing stops players from switching classes but at least you won’t end up with 4 DHs (that excel at point holding) vs 3 thieves (that can’t hold point to save their lives) teams right off the bat.
- calling out Obindo and top players and then wonder why he posts about his “accomplishments” is hilarious. You asked for it but you don’t want to listen to it? (by all means i am everything but a fan of Obindo, but he is a good player). Also, dismissing top players opinion about revs because it is uncomfortable truth is sad.
Shhh, let them live in their own world, it offers for great entertainment! Also the repetition of “accomplishments” was merely coz they kept getting triggered by it, hence great entertainment
No one was dismissing his opinions, but no one’s holding them in higher regard than anyone else.
No one cares if he’s a good player or not, or of his ‘accomplishments’, nor is anyone getting triggered (even tossing out jokes).
Seriously, a good player in this game is an absolute joke compared to any other actually competitive game with actual balance and a good dev team behind it. If this was Knee from Tekken, then I’d have some respect since there’s a clear level of skill there. (Yeah yeah different genre, but you get the idea.)
Did you even read the thread? They did call him out and dismissed his opinion as well as from other known top players.
Also you are contradicting yourself in this very post lol.
- revs don’t “deserve” any “improvements”, the class is still one of the best in pvp, i am not even going to mention how they fare vs core builds. The reason why the class feels weaker is because it was overtuned beyond comparison for seasons for the sake of sales (spoiled much?) Welcome to reality.
- i do agree that bugs need to be fixed but it applies literary to every class in this game – they all suffer from it (how many mes/thieves died due to no valid path error caused by different texture on flat terrain? How many times necros rezzed enemy due to condi xfer bug?) Bugs are NOT basis for the buffs.
Proper tuning of Revenant class can’t be done if the class is bugged.
So is every single other class – what is your point? Should we give necros second heal for 15k because their condi xfer is bugged? Or give thieves and mes invul for 5 sec on every failed port?
UA also still can’t be interrupted by enemy even if enemy interrupts the rev and get the interrupt message – the spell will be executed anyway. But why talk about bugs that profit revs, right?
- revs don’t “deserve” any “improvements”, the class is still one of the best in pvp, i am not even going to mention how they fare vs core builds. The reason why the class feels weaker is because it was overtuned beyond comparison for seasons for the sake of sales (spoiled much?) Welcome to reality.
- calling out Obindo and top players and the wonder why he posts about his “accomplishments” is hilarious. You asked for it but you don’t want to listen to it? (by all means i am everything but a fan of Obindo, but he is a good player). Also, dismissing top players opinion about revs because it is uncomfortable truth is sad.
- i do agree that bugs need to be fixed but it applies literary to every class in this game – they all suffer from it (how many mes/thieves died due to no valid path error caused by different texture on flat terrain? How many times necros rezzed enemy due to condi xfer bug?) Bugs are NOT basis for the buffs.
