Did you came from 2013?
side note: we all know only every noob and their noob mom think warrior is any good other then being a banner bot.
(edited by Simon.3794)
Eletism
15 char
5 people can represent a guild of 200+ people
but you will never find 6 people to represent a 5 men guild
get it?
doesnt matter because warrior is #mostnerfedclass2014
how pve works int this game
people will always use the highest damage stats
so im wearing a pants, is it considered a pants? technicially if a glider can counter as a mount
then my pants can be one as well
Celestial should not be changed, it should be kittening removed from the game. How is it balanced that mediocore players can win vs what they call ‘’top players’’ by losing EVERY single fight in the match. (talking about 5 celestial vs a normal comp)
On a side note, buff lord like seriously, it dies as fast as a rabbit in wvw.
The problem is that they buffed all damage so high with things like fire/air/geomancy/buffs to skills.
And they never buffed the lords armour/hp to compensate. Which is a total fail.
They also never buffed warriors armour /hp to compensate, because thats their main defensive mechanics. just like lords (reason why hambow/stances sucks so much now~)
guardian > warrior pve wvw
except pvp
What kept me going on my warriors for two years
is the play style warrior offers
the play style of on your face with melee weapon and no huge gimmicks
pure intense combat
it was the most epic thing when a good GS/LB zerker dual other GS/LB zerker
but then, it was too simple, it was let down by it’s default high HP
Devs kept it a simple class
limited it in so many ways
good players are limited and can not improve farther
The moment other classes can use my favorite weapons with a feel of a warrior
it’s the moment i’ll be switching
and this is the moment?
You see that hammer engi?
It looks epic, more warrior then warrior, and engi as a class definitely will let good playeres improve even more
OR IF there’s Greatsword thief
Or Even Revenant.
this will probably be my final dance with my beloved warrior untill the release of the expansion.
but who knows?
(edited by Simon.3794)
algorithm gets the outcome of the match right 95% of the kitten time. I’m tired of being saddled with kitten like this.
You got 2 thieves and other Mes, yet you don’t swap class yourself. Don’t complain please.
Why should we even have to change class? The way Anet told us was that class-stacking would be eliminated mostly while solo queue’ing.
Yet, I get stacked teams all the time.
It’s a fault in the matchmaking, not the players.
So ye, we complain because we shouldn’t be the one altering classes, that would defy the way the matchmaking works after all.
Yes, because match making system will magically poop out other classes out of their kitten
in dueling room, 60% of them are thieves and if you are playing a thief theres a huge chance of getting 2 or 3 thieves including you in SoloQ.
GG really.
and it is also why i don’t play my thief anymore even it’s my second main, let alone how heavily they rely on broken mechanics ( trickery steal)
a perfect example for thief in this game : Quick scopers in Call of duty, if any one have an idea lol.
(edited by Simon.3794)
Your thief changes..
first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.
2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.
and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….
it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.
Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.
there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.
And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.
You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.
Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.
S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.
All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.
And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.
Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.
i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.
boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.
and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.
5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u
See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.
. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.
right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate
D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.
I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.
so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.Cuz no trickery steal rofl.
that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl
Because trickery steal is only daze
such knowledge
much wowInfact trickery steal is not only a daze
it’s a boon rip
gives might/swift/fury/vigor
Heals
PoisonCan’t u see how unbalanced it is ? my main is thief and to me this kitten every 21 secs is totally broken.
yea, dude, i was totally not being sarcastic
let me quote you
“move daze to mug problem solved”
such knowledge
much wow.
Your thief changes..
first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.
2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.
and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….
it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.
Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.
there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.
And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.
You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.
Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.
S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.
All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.
And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.
Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.
i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.
boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.
and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.
5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u
See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.
. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.
right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate
D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.
I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.
so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.Cuz no trickery steal rofl.
that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl
Because trickery steal is only daze
such knowledge
much wow
Your thief changes..
first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.
2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.
and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….
it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.
Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.
there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.
And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.
You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.
Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.
S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.
All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.
And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.
Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.
i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.
boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.
and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.
5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u
See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.
. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.
right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate
D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.
I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.
thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..
Current D/P thief rips 2 boons every 20 secs.
Much rip
very wow
yes, that’s not much boon rip, so i guess this is the reason why you are giving S/D even more boon rip without the need even to trait for it right?
Your thief changes..
first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.
2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.
and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….
it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.
Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.
there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.
And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.
You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.
Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.
S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.
All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.
And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.
Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.
i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.
boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.
and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.
5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u
See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.
. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.
right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate
D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.
I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.
so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.
Your thief changes..
first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.
2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.
and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….
it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.
Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.
there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.
And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.
You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.
Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.
S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.
All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.
And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.
Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.
i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.
boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.
and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.
5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u
See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.
. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.
right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate
D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.
I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.
thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..
Current D/P thief rips 2 boons every 20 secs.
Much rip
very wow
and the second best boon rip that is in the meta next to SD thief
wtb logic.
(edited by Simon.3794)
Your thief changes..
first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.
2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.
and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….
it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.
Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.
there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.
And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.
You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.
Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.
S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.
All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.
And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.
Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.
i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.
boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.
and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.
5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u
See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.
. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.
right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate
D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.
I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.
thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..
i think you don’t understand viability is not determined by how yolo this build is how much more damage this build can do, if so i would just go 4 signet and backstab people for 13 14k and ill be god. gg wp
another thing
6 IN FREAKING ACROBAT!
(edited by Simon.3794)
SD simply can not do that much damage, rip more boon then current SD but without bountiful for that 6 point in acrobat
DP either completely give up boon rip or give up a lot of damage to go shadow rejuv.
(edited by Simon.3794)
Your thief changes..
first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.
2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.
and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….
it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.
Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.
there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.
And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.
You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.
Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.
S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.
All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.
And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.
Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.
i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.
boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.
and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.
5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u
See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.
. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?
way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.
right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate
(edited by Simon.3794)
I think a lot of these issues can be solved by simply moving Power Wrench to grandmaster tier! It would reduce the damage of Prybar, which hits for like 3-5k with might stacks on a cele build lol, and it would make it so you can’t trait for 20 second Magnets and 16 second Gear Shields unless you give up Alchemy sustain, which you won’t and shouldn’t! After all, Tool Kit is one of the most powerful kits the Engineer has and is definitely deserving of grandmaster status! We can then swap Gadgeteer to the master tier which would buff gadgets! But not really since Gadgeteer is absolutely balls! We all know gadgets need more buffs!
Wahoo! Bye frands!
Moving it to grandmaster?! So toolkit would require 6 points to become good. Engis already need 6 points to make grenades become good. We can’t make every single engi skill require 6 trait points to become decent.
Yah, because untraited TK isn’t “good” or “decent”. C’mon, be realistic.
Yah, becuase a mere -20% cooldown in 1 kit skill should be grandmaster. C’mon, be relaist.
Untraited Tool Kit is already good! Traited Tool Kit is a beast! That’s why it should be moved to grandmaster! That’s why every single goshdarn Engineer runs Power Wrench! That’s realistic!
Wahoo! Bye frands!
Your advice is really similar to mine, mine was either nerf damage for it to stay a defensive or increase CD defensive skills
i guess your advice stances better because it can also bring viability for other builds. nice thought imo.
Your thief changes..
first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.
2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.
and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….
it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.
Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.
there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.
And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.
You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.
Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.
S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.
All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.
And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.
Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.
i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.
boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.
and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.
Your thief changes..
first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.
2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.
and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….
point is that fire air requires you to crit
while battle is simply applied to all attacks from condi to power no crit required and condi skills are often easier to land. and is constant
not luck based.
Believe what you want, but there’s not much point trying to differentiate between Battle and Air/Fire. They’re both passive. Most sigils are totally un-counterable guys, say it with.
Spatial Surge and Ranger Longbow1&2, probably the easiest abilities in the game to tag someone with, huge champions of the Air/Fire sigil.
Critting is necessary to proc it, but the same can be said about weapon swapping. They’re both things that everybody does a million times in every fight.
Edit: Doom, Leeching, (Intel?), these sigil’s effets can be dodged though! Air/Fire/Battle not so much, their effects itself can’t be mitigated by avoidance. That’s the true difference.
However, battle is counterable by boon rip, which is at least something. People make arguments about Fire/Air because the only avoidance other than unrealistic things (like dodging literally every attack forever,) is the Ele Trait, Stone Heart.
I know that it’s pretty much impossible to avoid fire air burst, and i did get headshot fire air’d on my necro and it felt BS yes.
and i also did realized that the only way to counter that is to get endure pain up on my warrior the moment you see a thief walking to you so you can mitigate the first wave of procs.
but i also think that fire air ( unavoidable damage buff) is necessairy damage boost for zerkers to stay good, i remember you mentioned that cele engi output almost the same damage as a zerker engi? ptv hammer with enough might can also crit like a zerker hammer and fire air is pretty much a perma damage buff for zerkers to be, you know, zerkers..
and much like battle, but battle is not nerfed because it is passive, it is nerfed because builds that use it are OP. reason why it is still passive just less effective.
anyway i would love to see fire air gone as long as they compensate all zerkers in a way or another
and i also find a thing funny, is that, the forum was discussing about nerfing ele and engi, but you guys were like noo ele and engis are not op, only might stack, ok now might stackings are less effective, you guys start to panic again?
(edited by Simon.3794)
Everyone is not PvP material nor are they top tier. Why are you basing how OP the thief is off of how well top tier pvp thieves play?
You are basically saying, thief sucks because i’m noob. sorry for you but this game isnt balanced around noobs.
L2P issues. i’m done.
(edited by Simon.3794)
thief is only on high end teams cause everyone else is running enough cheese to carry him in 4v5s while the thief decaps. cough double engi double ele aand carry the thief while he out mobilizes ppl but guess what not everyone runs comps that allow them to win 4v5s or surivve them with ease. not to mention thief mobility is nearly just the same as any warrior or ele that can do the same dmg with more team uitilies and more survival than the theif will ever have. 3 sec faster rotations dont justify how badly we are shut down in every aoe fight or nearly every 1v1 against meta builds
once again its all about the risk vs reward factor which is laughable vs others in this game right now
I wouldn’t really use the word carry, because carry means you know carry. but they are not carrying, 2 ele 2 engi + 1 thief form a complete team, it’s not carry because it’s a complete meta comp and there’s no better choice other then thief to fill the 5th spot
in fact, you can swap a ele for shoutheal war, an engi for necro or w/e but thief will always be there, nobody would ever give up a thief for anything not even mesmer except 1 or 2 exceptionally good mesmer players.
No, thieves mobility will always be surperior as it can go throw walls and being vertical and horizontal. the ability to get on top of mid building in treb map and get on both high ground of legacy instantly and the diengage sword 2 and stealth offer are insanely valuable for any bursting class . you need to reason yourself why this role is filled by thief (rarely by mesmer) not other classes like gs warrior or scepter ele or med guard
(edited by Simon.3794)
thief is in a state of play that allows survival bunkery classes 15 mistakes to your 1 all while out dmging you and out surviving you and theres nothing you can do about it.
we are currently only useful being carried on teams that run cheese like double ele double engi that allow them to 4v5 while the thief uses mobility on the map
This is high level play im talking of which probobly alot of you will disagree with because they think killing some kittenty engi or ele low level play justifies anything
PS this is cruuk and ive got plently of credibility to back up my clearly blunt forum post
10k+ tourny thief alone with r1 solo and team (in the old system without using decay)
that’s not the problem of thieves only, that’s the problem of all zerkers. but thief still manage to always be in the meta. shows how good thief is.
thief plays a important role in the meta (have always been imo)
basically the only class (other then mesmer and rarely seen necro) that reliably can prevent stab stomping and have insane mobility to best what a zerker supposed to do (1+ in fights) and have a decent control ability also stealth for more tactical backcap plays (sizer played it so good in china lol)
@yolo, it’s not that i don’t understand, its you who don’t understand whats the meaning of meta and even trying to argue that meta is created by normal players lol
the only “meta” that is created by normal yoloq hotjoin player is MM necro, turret engis lol.
(edited by Simon.3794)
nothing is more passive than battle, it only requires you to be in combat. air/fire require you to connect your hits too.
Lol whats the point of having battle sig if you dont hit anything? Both stats and hit/crit proc sigils are braindead passive since you dont really control them.
point is that fire air requires you to crit
while battle is simply applied to all attacks from condi to power no crit required and condi skills are often easier to land. and is constant
not luck based.
As someone with 2 level 80 rangers, I will trade you everything pet related, traits included, for just eviscerate.
Also those op down stats?! man i would love to.
Lol what, Do you even know what is a meta, meta is set by the top players, you are basically saying theres no zerker meta, because top players can’t dodge. cool sauce.
thief will never be in the bunker meta? do you have eyes? can you see?
before spending too much time wasting time typing non sense, it’s better if you just go and get to know the game better.That’s a nice straw man you have there. Counter my whole argument or don’t respond at all.
Yes I do know what a meta is. It is determined not by top players but by what the majority plays or what is guaranteed and proven to be most effective. For example, celestial/might-stacking. A top player might play one thing but that doesn’t mean it works for everyone else. Everyone is not top-tier material, as much as they like to think they are. Especially in this game where the person who lets their build carry them more usually loses. Why do you think people come here and complain?
And secondly no, thief will never be in the bunker meta. If you had any experience with thief at all, which your post history will not show, thief can’t tank to save its life. It’s defenses are based on avoidance. But then again, you are probably the type to think resetting, stealth and evasion equates to tanking (given your post history).
No, it is not determined by the normal players, it is determined by the top players, do you think people started playing cele rifle engi and cele shoutheal war just like that? do you think people started playing 20066 sd thief just like that?
no, people started to play it, because they saw 5g played it in tournament, people play it because they saw Tarcis played it in tournament and it was effective. people play it because they saw sizer played it in tournament.
top players will always find the most effective build, find the best low risk high reward builds , as in they have more experience in 5v5 to know what is more effective. and normal players will use them as in these are the builds that has the lowest risk and highest reward.
doesnt mean there are no exception of a few smart normal players
and according to history, thief have being in every meta since the beginning of time, i really don’t know what you trying to argue here.
(edited by Simon.3794)
continue from my previous post
SURE, if you really wanted to call that skill cap
being able to reach a higher skill cap then other classes is also considered unbalanced
as in, why only this class can reach a higher level, while other classes are limited
because players can always improve and always will as long as there are space for them to improve. then it will only comes to how many OP kitten this class can actually pull off.
Nerf engi without first nerfing fire/air sigil combo would be a dumb move.
What, how are they even related
fire air is pretty much the only thing that can seperate a zerker engi from cele rifle right?
Nerfing engi/war/ele without nerf broken sigil of air/fire thives+mesmer with their low risk high reward builds will be terrible for the game.
while at it, nerf every zerker build as well as your own zerker build.
and cele builds will still be less risk more reward at holding points.
they don’t even play the same role.sorry but balance isnt involved around WvW and dualing.
Celestial needs to stay as a viable stat in spvp. If they nerf engi even more we have the risk of zerker cancer become even more abundant in spvp. Sigil of air and fire are even more passive than battle and doom.
Keep defending your passive sigils.
first of all, i don’t play zerker, as in they are not viable other then thief and i don’t play mesmer. and my main is non of them.
second of all, thieves and mesmer already lose to celes 1v1 on point
3rd of all, nerf fire air would only shave every other already bad zerker classes to be even worst.
4th of all, you are clearly brainlessly defending your cheese (yes my main also uses cele build and im not biased unlike you) as in you wish to nerf the only thing that can differenciate zerker engi and cele engi as in you wish to output damage like zerker even more while staying celely tanky.
5th of all, i would careless about cele disapparing, i would actually love to see more build diversity more roles and different comp then one build does all from condi pressure to healing to condi clear to spike to mobility.
More build diversity by making 1 stat completely nerfed to oblivion? Nice logic.
Also engis are pretty balanced and one of the highest if not the highest skill cap in build wars 2.
Do you know how many builds have disappared since cele meta?
it’s called sacrifice a little gain a lot.
you say it has one of the highest skill cap?
yea and it also has one of the lowest skill floor next to thief and warrior.
if you think having more OP skills at your disposal and being able to do more op kitten other classes can not means high skill cap, ok, good for you.
people often think that having high base HP, armor is a balance factor
and ignore the fact that having more OP skills without the need of watching skill swapping CD is also a balance factor and no it is not skill cap, it is just having more skills.
(edited by Simon.3794)
Nerf engi without first nerfing fire/air sigil combo would be a dumb move.
What, how are they even related
fire air is pretty much the only thing that can seperate a zerker engi from cele rifle right?
Nerfing engi/war/ele without nerf broken sigil of air/fire thives+mesmer with their low risk high reward builds will be terrible for the game.
while at it, nerf every zerker build as well as your own zerker build.
and cele builds will still be less risk more reward at holding points.
they don’t even play the same role.sorry but balance isnt involved around WvW and dualing.
Celestial needs to stay as a viable stat in spvp. If they nerf engi even more we have the risk of zerker cancer become even more abundant in spvp. Sigil of air and fire are even more passive than battle and doom.
Keep defending your passive sigils.
first of all, i don’t play zerker, as in they are not viable other then thief and i don’t play mesmer. and my main is non of them.
second of all, thieves and mesmer already lose to celes 1v1 on point
3rd of all, nerf fire air would only shave every other already bad zerker classes to be even worst.
4th of all, you are clearly brainlessly defending your cheese (yes my main also uses cele build and im not biased unlike you) as in you wish to nerf the only thing that can differenciate zerker engi and cele engi as in you wish to output damage like zerker even more while staying celely tanky.
5th of all, i would careless about cele disapparing, i would actually love to see more build diversity more roles and different comp then one build does all from condi pressure to healing to condi clear to spike to mobility.
Nerf engi without first nerfing fire/air sigil combo would be a dumb move.
What, how are they even related
fire air is pretty much the only thing that can seperate a zerker engi from cele rifle right?
Nerfing engi/war/ele without nerf broken sigil of air/fire thives+mesmer with their low risk high reward builds will be terrible for the game.
while at it, nerf every zerker build as well as your own zerker build.
and cele builds will still be less risk more reward at holding points.
they don’t even play the same role.
sorry but balance isnt involved around WvW and dualing.
(edited by Simon.3794)
Nerf engi without first nerfing fire/air sigil combo would be a dumb move.
What, how are they even related
fire air is pretty much the only thing that can seperate a zerker engi from cele rifle right?
Wars have too much counter play? Their down states is one of the best in game and almost uncounterable. I’ve seen a warrior use his downed-state-rez to revive his whole team by stomping.
thats like saying, necros down stat is one of the best in game, because i saw a necro feared some one off the edge and rezed the whole team including himself
ermmm…you do know that…almost every classes have a type of finisher combo ability right?
you think that warriors, engis w/e didn’t need to help for blasting thieves smoke field?
(edited by Simon.3794)
You don’t even need to nerf IP or any trait related.
Either nerf damage on tool kit for it to remain as a more defensive kit
or increase CD, so less time will be filled till their next healing turret.
Their skills are just too good, that they can be more then just viable without specing anything in condition clear and very little in defensive line.
Tell me which part of it being exaggeration.
the thief have always been in the meta part
or the part where i said only engi and ele appears more then thief on competitive scene?In bold.
. thief is more viable then all zerker builds and is dominating in that area since ever, and is on like every top team, the only classes that appears more then thief are ele and engi. and probably on pair or more then warriors.
while you see so little guardian, so little ranger, so little necro, so little mesmer, so little. that’s most already.and just a heads up, thief has always been and will be always in the meta game. unless anet do some major kitten up on it’s mechanics.
- The only reason why everyone else is pushed out of the zerk meta is because there are plenty of bad players who can’t dodge or take advantage of their active defenses, becoming free lootbags in zerker. Its safer and easier to slap your keyboard while your fragile glass opponent dies using tanky gear, especially when your profession has the boons and defenses to effectively augment the stats. Meanwhile…
- Any stat that does not assist with damage is useless to the thief. Thief is going to run either zerker or dire (maybe carrion) because the thief’s defense is designed to be purely active. In no way is thief able to soak up damage reliably. They do not have direct access to defensive boons other than regen, healing coefficients are arguably the lowest in the game, condition cleanse is restricted to stealth or sword #2 and the only stunbreak worth slotting is Shadowstep. And Shadowstep’s 2 stunbreaks makes up for the other stunbreaks thief has simply because the rest of them suck.
- Warrior is still an asset that can still provide in every role of combat. It isn’t as a popular choice as it was nowadays because the community has wised up and realized that war is go-to profession if you need the profession to carry you. Albeit it doesn’t mean it’ll make you an instant god at the game, but it’s simplistic handling will help you understand the game mechanics better. In which case, players who already know the game’s mechanics well enough move onto other professions because war gets real boring, real quick.
- On the other end of the spectrum, the community wised up and sees that thief is trash. It does nothing beyond ganking and stealthing. It supports better with finishers more than it’s support utilities and traits. But aside from that, a thief cannot effectively do anything beyond them unless the player is a kitten with it. So the only people you see on it are bad players who think its OP, die hards and ex-thieves who only want nostalgia or are testing out patches. Because they are on other professions every other time. Every thief you see in every professional team is good at it. They are the 5%.
- And your last statement is WHOLLY wrong. Thief is not and never will be part of any bunker meta due to #2. When the bunker meta became popular, the complaints shifted from “Thief killed me” to “Thief keeps resetting and running away”. And this was because of the chain of nerfs that eventually lead to 3 and 4. Now the thief exists because you can’t have an MMORPG without rouges. If thief is to ever participate in the meta at any degree, anet NEEDS to add diversity by modifying the direction and design philosophy of the profession itself.
And a good place to start is with these ideas:
Long Range CapabilityWell designed and imaginative ideas from one thief. And he even did the math for them!
Lol what, Do you even know what is a meta, meta is set by the top players, you are basically saying theres no zerker meta, because top players can’t dodge. cool sauce.
thief will never be in the bunker meta? do you have eyes? can you see?
before spending too much time wasting time typing non sense, it’s better if you just go and get to know the game better.
(edited by Simon.3794)
Tool kit is too good.
Pry bar, cele build crits for 4k+, 4 stacks of confusion, unblockable CC, block, and soft CC bleed.
it has every thing and too much of everything in a melee set up, for a class that’s mainly ranged and have no CD problem for switching skills.
either you nerf the damage and keep it’s survibility or do something about it.
You can’t go up against an extremely short range melee attack?
Seriously though, I do not understand.
1. Bleed, insignificant amount.
2. Soft CC? Meh not significant either in PvP, WvW definitely strong.
3. 5 stacks of confusion, the only decent damage the kit provides.
4. Block, just like a dozens of other damage mitigation skills.
5. Unblockable CC, wait WHAT? Dodge is a thing you know. Also a very EASY skill to dodge.
I’m not even gonna comment, because it seems like you didn’t even read, can’t not play your class properly and only trying to bs
Tool kit is too good.
Pry bar, cele build crits for 4k+, 4 stacks of confusion, unblockable CC, block, and soft CC bleed.
it has every thing and too much of everything in a melee set up, for a class that’s mainly ranged and have no CD problem for switching skills.
either you nerf the damage and keep it’s survibility or do something about it.
that’s not smart support
because, you have no fire field, no might stack
engi is so much better at appling vulnerability
and deals more damage.
your build wouldn’t even matter, all you need to get is banner.
banner = warrior
no banner = trash wouldn’t even take
banner pretty much keeps warrior by giving him this support role.
still not viable serious play
for fun, sure.
What im disappointed about warrior changes is that
still stuck with healing signet
no proper boon hate.
and as of rifle, looks like anet is trying to promote rifle/gs burst set up.
while gs/lb will still be surprior in so many ways, not like burst war is any viable.
but rifle needs proper boon hate on it either that or better utility.
longbow is just too good, rifle can not compete for simply having some cast time reduced, certainly not after adrenaline nerf.
heres a few suggestions i had for rifle, please take consideration.
New killshot will cause alot of rage, because no one will be used to the new cast time lol.
look at pvp forums, the qq is massive there… apprently thieves define meta lol
Yeah, I’ve run across those, and they have some weird logic to them. Something along the lines of thieves (and mesmers to some extent) caused the celestial meta.
Lolwut. The reason why thieves are even in the current meta is because of the fact we’re in the boon-based celestial meta.
Without boon theft, there’s really no point in using them for anything in sPvP.
I’m sorry what, dp trickery thief and 26060 sd ( now 20066 cuz steal line op) have been in the meta before celestial is even viable.
still more viable then most.
still so viable, still tons of thieves running around in pvp, still tons of thieves in top pvp team
still tons of thieves every where, still one of the top DPS PvE.
still tons of thief roamers every where in WvW.define most lol, thief is more viable than ranger really and maybe necro… rest is way better… pvp wise at least
. thief is more viable then all zerker builds and is dominating in that area since ever, and is on like every top team, the only classes that appears more then thief are ele and engi. and probably on pair or more then warriors.
while you see so little guardian, so little ranger, so little necro, so little mesmer, so little. that’s most already.and just a heads up, thief has always been and will be always in the meta game. unless anet do some major kitten up on it’s mechanics.
Tell me which part of it being exaggeration.
the thief have always been in the meta part
or the part where i said only engi and ele appears more then thief on competitive scene?
Thief is more heavy lag friendly, as in if you lag, the displayed body and the “actuall player” are not in the same spot ( body lag), but you can use auto pilot to find the enemy eaiser and land your attacks lol
sure, thief will die fast when only thief lag~
mercy rune hambow still cheesin. not dead yet
mercy rune hambow? what is even that.
shoutheal can rez people 1000 times better.
Awesome, now hambow is officially dead.
cool sauce 15char