Guild Wars 2

1 engi, ele, thief
2 engi ele thief
3 ele engi thief

Being ages i havent experience any underwater combat since they changed fractal lol.

darkaheart.4265:

For brutal shot maybe redesign the whole skill and add like a shotgun fire shot so we can hit multiple target as this weapon is only a single target fire shot.

Tbh, we already have longbow for AoE.
I would prefer rifle to be single target mostly, not to mention theres already enough DPS skills on the set, right now it just lacks the utility/potential to bring an enemy down effectively

@killahmayne.9518

Your first argument is just silly, because PvE meta is DPS, you just bring a bunker spec and trying to win an argument that is about a trait and fonctionality

It’s like saying is 3 3 4 2 2 zerker good for PvP? no, so cleansing ire does not make warrior good in PvP. It’s just super silly and dumb.

2nd of all, Meta build is 6 5 0 0 3, and 6 6 0 2 0 is not, 6 6 0 2 0 is an alternative over 65003 that does less damage and do not as good over all and you pretty much never weapon swap (build created by this topix meta, unintended exploit, a warrior never swap weapon, k ), The reason why 66020 is not meta, because it relies on your teamates to do stuff for you only then sure it might out dps the meta build.

See, you said it yourself, 66020 is better if your team can do it for you, that’s not a standing argument in this topic, Why bring a DPS warrior when you can bring an ele? why bring longbow war when other classes with higher dps also have huge fire fields?
Why don’t we just remove all our healing abilities because our teamates can heal for us? that’s just not the right argument.

Not to mention the pure DPS meta is just toxic you may as well just auto attack all day long and never weapon swap with axe like they do in some GvG videos and spend 7 points out of 14 for specific traits in every single build to be only half decent in PvP, way to encourage diversity.

Lag cause the body to be actually some where else

you need to target and use auto pilot skills to find where it actually is.

a lot of lags lately.

I just missed my bullcharge on a downed body

Haha, over shoot so bad.

Mesmer is OP.

but there’s no role for it for the team to pick it up!

cele plays every roles!

and thief>mesmer!

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Simon.3794:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Simon.3794:

my final thrust does only 1k damage, i have screenshot so im right. final thurst is weak,buff please.

Yeah, put your screenshot right here, can you?

Thief OP, nerf please.

Let you see who should be nerfed, more tanky, more stuns and more hp, but same and better burst, that’s totally unfair. it’s like 10k burst in 3 sec.

Let you see who should be nerfed, more dodges, remove boons, no cool down on skills, stealth, auto pilot but same and better, easier to hit burst.
that’s totally unfair. it’s like 13k burst in less then 2 seconds and i’m not even full glass.

Nerf thief, thank you.

killahmayne.9518:

Like I said before, it depends on how you define “class defining” and who is to say your definition of class defining is any more correct than mine or somebody elses.

From what I gather from your posts, you define “class defining” as a particular mechanic or trait that is used and is pervasive in all game modes (PvE, PvP, WvW) and are included in all meta builds.

However, there are meta builds in PvE that don’t use Fast Hands, it isn’t absolutely necessary in PvE builds whatsoever. It isn’t the difference between subpar to amazing like it is in PvP and WvW. In fact the meta build without fast hands can be just as good.

You say that just because a trait used in every meta PvP build doesn’t make it class defining. Neither does a trait that is used in all game modes necessarily make it class defining. Just because certain builds don’t use it, it doesn’t mean the trait isn’t class defining, IMO.

You also say that Cleansing Ire and Evasive Arcana make builds good in PvP. Two things about that.

#1: Cleansing Ire and Evasive Arcana do more than make builds good in PvP. They make even entire classes viable to the point where they would simply be ineffective without them. S/F isn’t really that viable or used in high tournament level play.

#2: Fast hands doesn’t make a PvE build “good”, so what does that say about Fast Hands? It isn’t anywhere near “defining” in a PvE build whatsoever. And according to your logic, wouldn’t that mean Fast Hands wouldn’t be class defining? Because it clearly isn’t defining in a PvE build, because clearly there are other meta builds that do not use Fast Hands. Which comes around to my point, just because it isn’t used in a select few builds, doesn’t mean it isn’t class defining.

To me Cleansing Ire is class defining in the sense that it contributes such a huge and major part to our class mechanic, and is pretty much the only option for doing so. Warriors are centered around bursts, Cleansing Ire so clearly impacts these bursts so largely that it can be considered class defining. Much like how Deceptive Evasion impacts the Mesmer mechanic so highly. Fast Hands is class defining in the sense that so many builds depend on its use that it is practically a staple in almost every build. Just because a one or two builds don’t use the said trait, doesn’t mean it isn’t class defining.

Is Healing Signet class defining? According to both of our definitions yes. Because it is the only heal used regardless of game mode.

However, just because something is “class defining” doesn’t mean it should be made default for the class necessarily. Something being class defining also points to a lack of other options (Cleansing Ire and Deceptive Evasion + Healing Signet fall into that category).

And like I said, making Fast Hands default doesn’t make a huge difference at all.

Celestial swordbow will instead run 0/0/6/6/2 instead of 0/0/5/6/3, for the adrenaline on shouts. Hambow will still run 2/0/6/0/6. Hammer/GS will still run 2/0/6/2/4. Axebow runs 6 in discipline. Axe/GS will still run at least 2 in discipline if not more. It only really frees up 1 trait point for certain builds. And plus, if you make Fast Hands default, you will have to make a new minor trait in discipline which in itself makes an already very strong traitline even more enticing.

If fast hands doesnt make a PvE build good, why is the meta dps build 65003 and not 66020 nor 66002. there’s a reason why the best builds in every area have fast hands that defines warrior in every coiner of this game.

and PvP isn’t the only game mode out there

Theres no trait which can compare to Fast hands in terms of it’s importance to a class.
00003 is the base line for every warrior, 00403 is the base line for every pvp warrior.
04000 is the base line for every pvp mesmer, you could say that to evade arcana, it’s base line for pvp only

Stances should have better looking activation effect like the meditations and cleansing fire

xD

+ please make balance stance a buff like endure pain and zerker stance, not boon. ty

because your team will get 4v3’d mid and wipe
and you will get ganged by 3 other people, then you will complain why you 1v3 at far yet people still lost mid.

only if you can bunk 2 people since the beginning till your teamate actually get mid, it’s not worth it. not 2 mention most bunkers are too slow to rush far.

killahmayne.9518:

Simon.3794:

killahmayne.9518:

I’m not necessarily opposed to it as I don’t think it will make a huge difference. But because that it wouldn’t make a huge difference there isn’t much incentive to change it.

There would still be plenty incentive to dabble into the discipline trait line even without fast hands. Warrior’s Sprint, DotE, Signet Mastery, Vigorous Focus, Mobile Strikes and all the Grandmaster traits are very good traits. Even Versatile Rage and the 1 might per swap is decent. IMO Discipline is an overall better traitline than Strength, even without Fast Hands, at least when PvP or WvW is concerned. You get a boost in adrenaline, % damage, increased movement speed, increased might, increased critical chance if you want to use it, etc. As well as access to more frequent bursts.

However, I think if you do this, you also have to look at other classes who have such class defining traits. For example Deceptive Evasion for the Mesmer is very class defining. Evasive Arcana is very class defining, etc.

Deceptive Evasion, especially Evasive Arcana are not class defining, they are simply what make the class to be good in PvP.
Just like Cleansing ire Warrior needs it to be good in PvP.
Which is not what im asking here.

They ARE class defining in the sense that pretty much every build no matter the weaponset uses it and are not competitive without it. You could argue against Evasive Arcana depending on how you define class defining, however Deceptive Evasion is every bit as class defining as Fast Hands, perhaps even moreso. The class mechanic of a mesmer revolves around clones/illusions. Without clones/illusions, the class is useless and wouldn’t be a mesmer. Deceptive Evasion = huge clone generation/output.

My point is that ANet won’t simply give fast hands away for free, even though it wouldn’t make a huge difference towards builds people run. People will still run discipline regardless, because it is the 2nd best traitline Warriors have in terms of options, viability in PvP/WvW, just maybe have an extra point to put somewhere else. And to justify such a change, you also have to look at other classes who may suffer something similar to “Fast Hands”.

Let’s start with S/F does not use Evasive Arcana, and it is really strong and commonly used in duelings.

A trait does not make it to class defining just because every PvP build has it.
by that logic, Cleansing ire is also class defining, because the class is involved around burst skills.
Not to mention, no PvE meta builds run Deceptive Evasion, which means it’s just like Cleansing Ire and Evasive Arcana that this trait is build defining which make the classes good in PvP.

While Fast Hands in the other hand is meta in PvE, WvW, PvP build and it drastically changes warrior’s basic gameplay routine. The only builds that does not have Fast Hands are GS only Might Buffers and AA zerg.

I wouldn’t say it won’t make differences, because from what i see, it will definitively increase diversity as warriors are no longer to default with 0 0 4 0 3 in PvP

Firebird.8324:

Amir.1570:

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, retired #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Ok so you shave a few points off each stat on the Celestial Amulet! Then what! Elementalists still have crazy burn uptime, still have crazy protection uptime, still have crazy condi clear, still are the only class with permanent vigor, still have crazy sustain, still can stack 25 might on their entire team! Geez louise my frands the issue obviously isn’t Celestial Amulet! Y’all cats need a dose of get good sons!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Also for anyone complaining about might stack changes affecting PvE! Thief Revealed is 4 seconds in PvP, 3 seconds in PvE/WvW! Old Dhuumfire was 4 seconds in PvE/WvW, 2 seconds in PvP! Old Monk Runes were 15% boon duration in PvE/WvW, 10% in PvP! (Hey what do you know! Anet knew boon stacking was OP as poop!) PvP only might stack change would be just swell! Wahoo!

Actually Shout Warrior has perma-vigor too. But why aren’t they as broken as Ele? Because Shout Warrior even with perma vigor can get chain CC focused.

True, if you give it stab to it will be a near cele ele

Even with stab you can get chain CC focused after stab removed.
you need teleportation to get insta out of the combat over those platforms where only teleports can insta get to!

killahmayne.9518:

I’m not necessarily opposed to it as I don’t think it will make a huge difference. But because that it wouldn’t make a huge difference there isn’t much incentive to change it.

There would still be plenty incentive to dabble into the discipline trait line even without fast hands. Warrior’s Sprint, DotE, Signet Mastery, Vigorous Focus, Mobile Strikes and all the Grandmaster traits are very good traits. Even Versatile Rage and the 1 might per swap is decent. IMO Discipline is an overall better traitline than Strength, even without Fast Hands, at least when PvP or WvW is concerned. You get a boost in adrenaline, % damage, increased movement speed, increased might, increased critical chance if you want to use it, etc. As well as access to more frequent bursts.

However, I think if you do this, you also have to look at other classes who have such class defining traits. For example Deceptive Evasion for the Mesmer is very class defining. Evasive Arcana is very class defining, etc.

Deceptive Evasion, especially Evasive Arcana are not class defining, they are simply what make the class to be good in PvP.
Just like Cleansing ire Warrior needs it to be good in PvP.
Which is not what im asking here.

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Simon.3794:

my final thrust does only 1k damage, i have screenshot so im right. final thurst is weak,buff please.

Yeah, put your screenshot right here, can you?

Thief OP, nerf please.

Celestial is OP
Every class can spec tanky, take sigil of battle and runes of strength and use a mixture of direct and condi damage.

just some are viable in TQ some are not.

But again, this game should not be balanced in dueling. so i guess it’s only ele engi are op.

unless anet introduce new game modes (most likely)

Olba.5376:

Simon.3794:

@Olba
builds like 66020 already exist in PvE.
it’s already on battlemeta for quite some time

Of course they do, as builds that don’t swap weapons. But with Fast Hands natively, they could get both.

and it’s not crazy, and warrior is like no where close to top dps.

Doesn’t mean it wouldn’t still be a significant boost to our DPS. Which would mean they’d nerf other things, such as Berserker’s Power and Dual Wield Agility.

If anything, i would be asking for cleansing ire to be class mechanic. don’t you get it?

And how would you do that? You can’t just tack it onto burst skills and call it a day, that would be ridiculous.

Of course they do, as builds that don’t swap weapons. But with Fast Hands natively, they could get both.

And? Does it double it’s DPS output or make the warrior invincible?

Doesn’t mean it wouldn’t still be a significant boost to our DPS. Which would mean they’d nerf other things, such as Berserker’s Power and Dual Wield Agility.

Let’s not argue how having -5 second weapon swap CD, would increase DPS significantly in anyway (no CD swaping engis much have over 9000 damagelol.)
Do it then? You said it youself that you don’t want zerker meta anymore, why not?
or you are simply here to troll?

And how would you do that? You can’t just tack it onto burst skills and call it a day, that would be ridiculous.
what?

not as funny as the old warrior one

my final thrust does only 1k damage, i have screenshot so im right. final thurst is weak,buff please.

@Olba
builds like 66020 already exist in PvE.
it’s already on battlemeta for quite some time

and it’s not crazy, and warrior is like no where close to top dps.

as of your build, you will also miss out ferocity, adrenaline on weapon swap, and lower burst skill cool down.

Feline Grace is build defining.
Fast hands is class defining.

If anything, i would be asking for cleansing ire to be class mechanic. don’t you get it?

Juba.8406:

^^^

thats one option.

you could also go ?/?/6/2/2 and still have 4 points to spend either in strength or Arms or even better ?/?/4/6/0 a beast shout heal warrior.

thats 3 builds on the fly, diversity brings it on.

Yes, it would bring way more diversity then any change will never bring to a class, then we can nerf certain builds accordingly.

Derren.8724:

Killshot hits harder than Eviscerate as it is now, I don’t think it needs a damage boost. I don’t agree with having it ignore protection/blocks, either. There needs to be ways to avoid/mitigate/prevent heavy burst abilities like that.
.

Reason why i suggested ignore protection (increase damage is a side idea, mainly focusing ignore protection), it’s because,
sure, it does more damage then Eviscrate already, but eviscerate is only 3/4 cast time.
and it has a leap finisher which grants you fire aura, which provides might and burning

but killshot, on the other hand, is simply a single projectil, we all know how weak is one projectil.
and killshot is 1 second extra cast time, self immobilize with way obvious animation and can also be blocked by projectile blocks.

which is why i think it needs to ignore protection(and increase damage), also another reason, i think warrior needs a proper boon hate, and killshot is, imo, the best place for protection hate.

glock.6590:

Making thief’s feline grace as basic mechanic would be great too?

Is feline grace is necessity in every thief build? not.
warriros already have a tons of must have traits.

you also said you don’t play warrior, but i play thief.
not sure how you even compare felince grace to fast hands, because felince grace’s counter part is clearly building momentum and you don’t simply compare two traits like that, not to mention, these traits importance to each their own classes are not even close.

farther more, if you want, you can make a thread about it on thief forums, really, no one is stopping you to do it, if you have valid points.
are you simply here to start a class war again? after prof balance being removed?.

i welcome constructive comment with sense to it.
exit is that way.

make fast hands warrior default class mechanics, introduce new minor trait

Like what anet did for thieves.

They need to increase nature adrenaline regeneration, especially after the nerfs.

and reduce the adrenaline regen from specific traits.

Right now, killshot is weak, super weak, it’s super hard to land and even it does, most meta builds can face tank it.

so i brainstormed some ideas

-killshot ignores protection.
-level 3 killshot is unblockable
-increase killshot overall damage by 25%
-decrease cast time to 1 1/4 second

-remove the bloody effect on autoattack, since it doesnt apply bleed anymore.
-Volley also costs 8 stacks of vulnerability for 12 seconds
-Brutal shot removes 2 boons, increase cooldown to 25 seconds. prioritize stability.

thief is still in almost every pvp team and best zerker roamer.

and 1st or 2nd highest DPS in PvE

tell me more.

We were doing lv50 FoTM, 2nd stage, game got a new build.

One of our teamates D/Ced and he was forced to update the game.

when he came back, hes no longer the same build as us, so he can’t get back in.

not like we can get any one with LFG either because everyone updated their game.

we had to 4 men dredge and final stage..

and i got nothing! QQ!

lucadiro.4519:

Simon.3794:

if you want S/F do be on pair with thief and mesmer in turns of roamer

1st, you need to shave its damage
2nd, shave utility for boon removal.

OK remove some damage from dragon thoot and take my arcane blast. But give me some mobility OR a boon removal

you miss read, it’s utility+damage nerf for boon rip.

but no mobility because mobility belongs to S/D

We hate rangers because bear bow, because they can’t dodge, they can’t use frost spirit, when we are stacking to quick down a boss, hes always miles away pew pewing and making the boss move away from our reflections and because they constant pew pew rapid fire on reflecting enemies..

hate bear bow so much…

check
check
check
check
check
check

you are good to go.

SobeSoul.6910:

DaveGan.8065:

Tell me more about how hambow is viable against celestial eles on points. Should we be looking at your vigor or protection uptime instead?

The main purpose of the current shout warrior only seems to be to have enough sustain and on-demand condition removal to stalemate eles in this meta.

I didn’t say hambow.

You are stating a warrior’s role is stalemate eles. This is neglecting a lot of aspects of warriors. Warriors can have multiple roles with the diversity of builds they have available to them.

Shoutbow and Hambow only server one purpose.

Evis builds can be strong
Hammer with a number of offhand weapons can be strong as well
Rifle warrior was strong but lol rangers stole the role

Fact is you want to play a bunk role. That’s fine, but don’t say that’s the only viable thing when other things work with team support.

Also tell me about the vigor, the stance durations, fury uptime, on warriors.

Just because you may only play metabuilds doesn’t mean warriors don’t have access to some nice things.

I’m still waiting for your lists of nice things and what else roles can a warrior play.

Aaron.2413:

mistsim.2748:

am I missing something?

YeA /charssssssss

yup/charsss

if you want S/F do be on pair with thief and mesmer in turns of roamer

1st, you need to shave its damage
2nd, shave utility for boon removal.

Firebird.8324:

SobeSoul.6910:

I can 100% say this to you and members of your team OP. Get good.

Your team’s choices of comps is LOL and gimmicky. That has zip to do with amulets.

You sir ARE RIGHT,
So, we can and most likely will change our comp to cele war, cele war, cele ele, cele engi and condi necro, NOW, which is more fun to watch? 4 cele team? or double power necro team?

You wouldn’t want two cele war. because cele ele is a superior being in every way…you can swap those two wars to ele and do better.

thief will lose on point.

i’ve made 3 warrior lol.

then deleted 2, then made another one.

and 2 engi as well. the rest are one.

Archaon.9524:

BlueBoy.1236:

Am i the only one who see the problem comes from strength runes? 45% duration increase with an extra 5%dmg to it seems a lil bit op compared to other runes.

Without their perma 20+ might stack, i dont think warr and ele will be at their place now.

you don’t need strength runes to stack might…most wars don’t even run them anyway

you actually do.

hambow or axe/sword do need str or hoelbrak.

sword shout goes for soldier, but they already have a decent amount of boon duration from shout trait line.

I don’t know why people talk about shout like it’s some thing so amazing.

it’s basically a mini DD ele. it’s a DD ele, but worse.

Whale

please

Maybe you can give suggestions.

some changes are inevitable to affect other builds.
in order to nerf warrior meta build, anet touched a lot of non meta warrior builds in the process.

TheSwede.9512:

Simon.3794:

. greatsword lacks combo finisher.

Greatsword has a Whirl Finisher in Whirlwind Attack and a Physical Projectile in Bladetrail, that hits twice due to returning.

. Whirlwin last so short.
you shoot out 2 bolts max. and hit no one.

Physical projectile is only like OK meh. if you ever land two hit on a player, good for you!

if you know what i mean, gs lacks a real finisher.

. greatsword lacks combo finisher.

I don’t see the problem for volunteering something you like.

just the region gate…:|

GhOst.4019:

Simon.3794:

butch.8136:

^ Would kill pvp honestly. The amount of toxicity, trolling, abuse, etc would be out of control.

I wouldn’t say that, Dota2 and LoL are both free to play.

A game does not make itself a esport, the community makes a game a esport.

bigger community’s pros will definitely out shine cons by so many levels.

Ohhhhh hellll nawww! This is even worse of an idea. You do realize that GW2 and those other games are nothing alike. F2P as they may be, you still have to work for your gear and stuff or P2P to get it faster. GW2 requires NOTHING to be able to PvP besides being lvl 2. So you are either 1: Asking Anet to let in potentially millions of players that will spend $0 and time just to PvP? or 2: Changing GW2 PvP into a 80 only “must have gear” thing; so that these newly flooded trolls would have to spend time and or $$ to play. Neither of which is a good idea or will ever happen.

What? you have no idea what i just said, don’t you. LOL

butch.8136:

^ Would kill pvp honestly. The amount of toxicity, trolling, abuse, etc would be out of control.

I wouldn’t say that, Dota2 and LoL are both free to play.

A game does not make itself a esport, the community makes a game a esport.

bigger community’s pros will definitely out shine cons by so many levels.

People are forced to use escape mechanics, because of the unfair nature of WvW, also unbalanced issues.

If you see a zerg or a group of people coming to you, you will have to run.

with – condition food + melandru + dogged march. warriors will pretty much be immune to soft CCs which affect a warrior’s mobility the most in PvP.

also, PvP is more of a team game with roles. there are classes who have better mobility.

Mobility in WvW is only king, because you can run away if you are going to lose

by running away, warrior does not gain any advantage, especially not against another warrior.
only if the enemy burn all his cooldown to chase down.

yes, that would be more convenient for both teams!

“i getz pinned downed every tim!”

Jesus, you give for great justice and fear me a 3/4.
good job killing the build, now warrior will be using stance only for real this time.
what, next you are going to give stance a cast time right?

you barely even nerfed ele and you give fgj and fear me a 3/4 for christ sake.
why don’t you give cleansing fire a freaking cast time and lighting flash a freaking cast time, earth armor a freaking cast time. and all those aura a freaking cast time.

jesus, this is so horrible, not even real.