Guild Wars 2

Belarorn.9062:

I know ima get told to l2p as soon as this goes up. Don’t really care because I do know how to play.

Rapid Fire is still OP

Why? I know that other classes can hit for the same damage-ish. I have a few examples.

Hundred Blades – You can’t move they can’t move lets hope no one else hits you (while you stand there next to them) and you have to be in the range of all the AoE in melee range. Oh by the way don’t get interupted it takes a few seconds for all the hits to land

Backstab – OK still in Melee range and dont get hit with AoE’s this one is more OP then hundred blades but if you see a theif chances are you ain’t gonna stand there and paint a sign on your back. A good theif will still hit you but if you move around he might miss.

Rapid Fire – 6k dmg in a second or less??? Yes lets use the reflect block argument. If you see it coming. 1v1 you might but if they come in halfway through a fight you are done. Lets dodge roll. in the middle of a fight you might have 1. he’ll be back off CD before you if the other fighter has not killed you by then.

Compared to staff ele is way different. Ele takes a lot longer to get to the same #’s of dmg that a LB ranger can get to in less then a second.

The other Burst skills you have to be in melee. if you + 1 someone you have to avoid the enemy. Rnager does not have to at 1500 range Lets be serious you can hit from about 1800. just because the skill has it’s red bar does not mean it can not do dmg. IN Battle of Khylo I’ve seen rangers hit bunkers at mansion from top of clocktower. Good luck getting up there before you die.

Oh?
You have a screen shot of this ranger killing you in a second?

Here is one of thief.

I’ll wait for the ranger one shot from range you are talking about

nicknamenick.2437:

Jim Hunter.6821:

nicknamenick.2437:

Lazze.9870:

stof.9341:

Complaining about 100blades and backstab worked and we got it nerfed, despite the many L2P posts like yours. Why shouldn’t we try? :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXsE5TMN1-M

Spend your time doing whatever you want. Adeptning to new metas and having a understanding of other classes makes you a better player, raging on the forums doesn’t.

So you think everyone now have to adept for rangers?
Where in the past every class got nerfed? look at what become to warriors.. every single patch there is a nerf for them and thiefs.. soon or later this skill will get nerfed.

Lets assume for a second that you’re right and that even though this skill is very easy to counter, it is easier to cry on the forums to have it changed rather than going into the game and adapting to beat it.

Do you really think this will result in a better game? Should we just remove all weapons/armor/skills from the game and give everyone pillows to fight with?

These baby rangers are playing high risk, high reward builds. It will hurt to face tank the damage but if you avoid even part of the burst they are ridiculously easy to kill.

I have yet to lose to a single one of them across every profession including necro.

Warrior burst skills wassnt hard to dodge either > they are now one of the most telegraphic skills in the game..

Warrior burst has always been telegraphed.
Ever since the end of BW2

loseridoit.2756:

Jim Hunter.6821:

loseridoit.2756:

Ehecatl.9172:

loseridoit.2756:

Jagstang.6912:

then you just might need to learn to evade/reflect/run up to him and just hit him.

I am just trying to understand this statement. Are you implying that all ranger just die in 1 hit in melee ranger with any build what so ever?

That include tank builds?

If a ranger is built tanky they aren’t the ranger build that everyone is complaining about. Totally different animal.

no i mean the other way around

You still aren’t making any sense.

exactly, there is the reason why I dont like the op post.

http://youtu.be/wKjxFJfcrcA

I am going to bring this to the attention of all the crying kids out there getting pew pewd by rapid fire and thinking it’s just rapid fire.

Rapid Fire didn’t get a damage buff..
Same damage. Faster Cast.

But then you have this signet.

That gives you 25% damage boost.
On top of giving you stability. So very few classes can now interrupt you during said burst period.

No other signet in game gives you this kind of damage boost + immunity to stop damage with CC (because of stability)

Rym.1469:

Wolf.5816:

I’d be fine with just a noticeable Rapid Fire “Skill Tell/Animation.” (Like what was done for the Warriors Pin Down Long Bow Skill.)

Just to make recognizing one Log Bow skill from the other Long Bow skills a little easier. Or possible.

I also feel it would be very reasonable to implement the same kind of “Skill Tell/Animation” for Point Blank Shot as well. This skill can dramatically change the pace of a fight, It would only be fair to open up a mild bit of counter play.

Khm… Rapid Fire has animation already… it’s many arrows flying…should it be pink and glow in night ?

As for PBS – if you want to give it more distinct animation (currently it’s longer cast and right foot making step foward) then give it some more utility. Overcharged Shot doesn’t have any animation at all tbh and people don’t complain too much.

I think a better animation for both would be great.

Though overcharged shot already has a drawback to it..

Jim Hunter.6821:

Okay how many people here have actually lost to one of these ”op rangers” in a 1v1 fight? I’ve been killing these baby rangers 1vX since the patch with absolutely no problem.

They are running the full glass bearbow build that has been a running joke since the game was released. Just use any one of the many ways listed to avoid their initial burst and then breathe on them heavy so they die.

This pretty much.

I found that

-Thieves have a really easy time with this spec. They are glass, a well played thief adds so much pressure that there isn’t really anything they can do.
D/P is still a thing. sadly most of the newb thief population played S/D so it will be a while before people jump on this.

- Mesmer’s have an equally easy time with them because of phantasm’s and the ability to reflect AND remove boons.
No stability burst = dead ranger.

-Power Necro- its a thing. It’s hard to play, but when you can remove boons and fear a squishy into oblivion WHILE ALSO HITTING for 3-4k on an auto. ( o and having a complete new life bar) it becomes manageable if not easy.

-Elementalist – if I have to explain why this is a good matchup for them then you need to review some thangs

-Medi Guard.- it moves, you burst. You have the tools and the sustain to make this an easy win.

Plankie.6287:

Solori.6025:

ummm..

….
Ghastly Claws-8 seconds
….

Almost every class has a burst move on a short cooldown.

Ghastly Claws:

Damage (8x): 968 (2.880)
Activation time: 2¼
Cooldown: 8s
Life Force: 12%
Range: 600

—

Rapid Fire:

Damage (10x): 1,320 (3.75)
10 Vulnerability: 10s
Activation time: 2½
Cooldown: 10s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 1200 (actually slightly longer)

Is this really a comparison you wanna make for your argument that Rapid Fire is balanced..?

Ghastly Claws:
Increased damage of this skill by 10%.

The tooltip is actually

Damage (8x): 1,040
Activation time: 2¼
Cooldown: 8s
Life Force: 12%
Range: 600

a full channel of this attack on a squishy does pretty much the same numbers as a RF, it just cant be reflected

Sebrent.3625:

Here’s a great example of what mtpelion is talking about …

Let’s just look at Elementalist’s Off-hand Abilities with a Focus.

Water #5 : Ice Comet : daze stops channeling
Air #4 : Swirling Winds … destroys projectiles
Air #5 : Gale … knockdown stops channeling
Earth #4 : Magnetic Wave … reflects projectiles
Earth #5 : Obsidian Flesh … invulnerability (enough said)

That’s 5 ways to stop a Ranger from nailing them … and that’s just looking at their off-hand. It’s also useful against non-rangers so isn’t even them building to beat a Zerk Longbow Ranger.

don’t forget that ele’s have one the best burst combo’s in game right now.

Black Box.9312:

Meditation guardian is a glass build that counters other glass builds. How do you beat it? Well, every passing second in a fight decreases the medi guard’s chance of winning, so simply outlasting them and whittling them down should do the trick quite nicely.

This pretty much.
Medi guardian has been fine and is still fine.

PanH.1957:

mtpelion.4562:

Bear on the job.6273:

Hundred Blades at 1500 range while moving…seems legit.

So Hundred Blades can be countered with Reflect or Block now? Cool story.

Nah, you only need to move. That’s a special skill you can use with wasd.

cool story…or you can dodge..

its a special mechanic that is in game.
you should try it out.

Mahtayoo.3748:

Also i don’t see how you can compare illusions to adrenaline. Illusions provide confusion to the enemy (In a literal sense. In some situations its very hard to keep track of the real mesmer) adrenaline does not affect the enemy in that way. Illusions are very easily replaced and you have a huge range of skills to INSTANTLY replenish clones/illusions if you wish. Adrenaline has one skill that will instantly replenish it and it has a long cooldown. You can’t really compare the two,

You can.

You are talking about mechanics for a class.

Mesmer uses there mechanics to cause CC.—Like a warrior with a hammer or mace.
if our class mechanic misses.. you have to start over and wait for the cd.
Same with warrior, except your CD is more forgiving.

Mesmer uses there class functions to cause damage—like the warrior with axe,rifle or gs
if our class mechanic misses.. you have to start over and wait for the cd.
Same with warrior.

Mesmer uses there class function to cause conditions—like the warrior with sword or longbow.
Unlike warrior with longbow. If you miss the shatter..you have to start over. and wait for the CD.

They are very comparable class mechanics. Because both are really similar.
In the fact that missing a burst means waiting, baiting, and retrying.

Junkpile.7439:

Problem is that dodging, evading and stuff takes skill, but ranger burst doesn’t take any kind of skill. This is reason why kitten ranger players kill other kitten players too easily.

well if you want to get technical.

No burst really takes skill.

You press a button,
5k+ shows up.

It’s just rangers got range on theirs

So now people cant ignore a ranger anymore.
and reflects will now be a thing.

Here you can has maths

Solandri.9640:

PhantomClutch.7825:

Just so I understand.

Everyone defending agrees its ok to do 20k+ damage

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

An exotic longbow has 1000 average base damage.
Rapid Fire’s cumulative skill coefficient is 3.75.
Assume the target’s armor is 1800.
Assume Steady Focus (10% extra damage when endurance full).
Assume Eagle Eye (5% extra damage for longbow). Means no Spotter.
Assume Hunter’s tactics (10% extra damage when flanking).
Assume Peak Strength (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Scholar runes (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Sigil of Force (5% extra damage).
Assume Sigil of Bloodlust (250 extra power).
Assume 10% vulnerability from Opening Strike (5% + avg 5% from RF)

All those assumptions mandate a 45500 build. Outfitting it with exotic berserker’s armor and ascended berserker’s trinkets yields:
2355 power
51% crit chance
222% crit damage

1000 (2355+250) *3.75 *(1+0.51(2.22-1)) *(1+.1+.1+.1+.05+.05) *1.1 / 1800 = 13,558 damage

Methinks 20k damage from RF is a teensy bit of an exaggeration. I left out food and sharpening stone, but I think it’s pretty clear damage is nowhere near 20k. Maybe if someone else were giving you 25 stacks of might, fury, warrior banners, you might be able to hit 20k. But then you’re not facing a solo ranger, you’re facing a team who is working together to gank you.

to someone in 1.25s (if haste works how I believe it does) just because someone didn’t evade?

No, quickness does not work like that. It used to speed up attacks 100% (halved their time). But that got nerfed down to 50% last year (ranger DPS was hardest hit by that nerf, and they got the least compensation because some of their quickness didn’t get duration extensions).

2.5s becomes 2.5/1.5 = 1.67 sec.

People posting must be bad, it’s rangers did not get a 10% dps buff, they got alot more than 10%. Shortening LB2 by 50% means a straight up 50% dps increase, because you take less time to go through it.

RF wasn’t shorted by 50%. It went from 4 and a half to 2.5s. It was shortened by 44%.

And bear in mind that prior to this change, RF used to do just 93% the DPS of longbow’s autoattack.

Ranger longbow autoattack @ max range is .9/1 = 0.9 coeff/sec
Rapid Fire is 3.75/2.5 = 1.5 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.67

Warrior GS autoattack is (.77+.7+.9)/2.5 = 0.948 coeff/sec
100 blades is 5.5/3.5 = 1.57 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.66

Warrior rifle autoattack is .4/.96 = .417 coeff/sec
Volley is 3.0/2.5 = 1.2 coeff/sec
Ratio = 2.88

You really think RF’s extra DPS is out of line for a burst skill?

Also you’re forgetting the free grandmaster trait given to every range using signets, you don’t even need to trait for it, all signets now affect you too.

You mean the change that made signets work for rangers exactly like they’ve always worked for every profession except ranger? You’re trying to say that rangers deserved to have inferior signets compared to every other profession, and so bringing them up to par to everyone else is somehow doing rangers a favor?

Forestgreen.7981:

Also I said 50% damage increase on LB 2 skill specifically, not for the long bow in general. Note rangers got a straight up BUFF, and from what I saw no nerfs on a kitten thing to level the playing field.

RF does exactly the same damage as it did before. It’s just been compressed from 4.5 sec to 2.5 sec. That is, it’s DPS was increased 44%. It’s damage is the same as before.

As a weapon, if you assume longbow autoattack fills in the gaps between RF and Barrage whenever their cooldowns are up, then:

Before:
4.8 coeff / 2.75 sec every 30 sec (Barrage)
3.75 coeff / 4.5 sec every 10 sec (Rapid Fire)
0.9 coeff / 1 sec (autoattack)
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 + .9*13.75) = 28.425 coeff / 30 sec

After:
4.8 coeff / 2.25 sec every 30 sec
3.75 coeff / 2.5 sec every 10 sec
0.9 coeff / 1 sec
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 +.9*19.75) = 33.825 coeff/30 sec

33.825 / 28.425 = 1.19 = 19% damage buff for longbow

vincecontix.1264:

Yup the damage they can do from 1500 range is just silly. Also its way to easy for rangers to get there burst off, like seriously press 2 and watch things die +the short cd its not right. 1v1 is not the issue its in group setting with multiple rangers. Very easy to focus down target b4 they even reach the ranger.

Zerker thiefs are alot easier to deal with if they want to do any real damage they have to get in melee range. In alot of team fights there is so much cluster kitten aoe all over the place the thief really have to think and position himself well or its gg. The ranger just finds and nice play to camp spams auto and rf.

but..
The damage they do is the same as it was prepatch…

Just faster and easier to dodge.

Nothing has changed on the damage coefficient.

So now to the next question.
Are people upset because they have to pay attention to a class now?

T raw.4658:

That much damage that fast from that range is game breaking.

So…
Is that much damage from melee gamebreaking too?

I’m not sure what the pointis.
You can dodge both.

You can reflect one.

T raw.4658:

All other burst isn’t 1500 or more range away

So is the complaint range? because like with any skill….
you can dodge…

that is a thing…

johnsonade.9547:

Just saying, it’s a lie to say that rangers fold up once you get into melee range

Do you know what longbow does?

. I have to deal with ranger in melee like I deal with warrior balance stance now but warriors are more dumb and limited. I could kite them and keep out of their AA range while keeping a point contested and watching their stance icons flicker. Rangers can tank you while pet CC’s or they can pop the signet and barrage you without fear. The cripple doesn’t do much for proper kiting.

? They are just like warriors but WITHOUT the condition immunity
(unless the sit in there healing spring in which case, pull them out?)

The AI is dumb, and initiates an attack as soon as its " in range " path flares.
In which case a strafe will make it miss, while you load the ranger with condi’s
and reflect
reflect is important.

I’ll adapt but I see a lot of people minimizing and making excuses for OP stuff. Enjoy it while you can if that’s your class, but I definitely wasn’t happy about it when decap engis and turret engi meta popped up, and I’m not going to act like what’s going on with ranger class is okay just because they’ve been the most looked down upon for so long.

Guess what isn’t going away..
Turrent and decap engie’s

As far as reflect + condi spam = win, I’m a power engineer that packs rifle. I can do a condi-spam build, but that doesn’t work against eles and necros, so now I’ve got some things to figure out if I have to deal with ranger ganks (that doesn’t even look right with me typing it). Power builds with pistol-shield don’t really work, but rifle can go hybrid and still be effective. It’ll be a task but I’ll come up with something. In the meantime, maybe don’t give advice if you don’t really know.

So…
you have a choice.
Be weak against one and strong against the other..

I…
I think that is balance…
I’m pretty sure that is the definition of balance.

Maybe in the meantime..
You can learn your class and not complain about something you have the counter to?

Then people like myself who have been playing said class and other’s wont have to come and offer you advice on how to deal with a gimmick

WEXXES.2378:

I’m all right with the burst. While the damage potential was basically increased by 150% (extra time to fire extra arrows compared to old Rapid Fire), the actual damage it does… still the same.

What’s really annoying, and no amount of reflect bullcrap sorcery will ever beat, is its really low cooldown. It’s 10 seconds, 8 with the trait. Most longbow rangers will go secondary GS or S/D, both of which are used to create distance easily.

Rapid Fire needs to have it’s CD increased by at least 60%, to 16s untraited, 13s traited, lowering its downtime but keeping its burst.

ummm..

Mind Wrack-11 sec
blurred frenzy-12 sec
Eviscerate-10 seconds
Arcing slice-10 seconds
volley-10seconds
Backstab- LOL
unload- LEL
Ghastly Claws-8 seconds
Life Blast- auto
Whirling wrath-10seconds

Elementalist-9 seconds

Almost every class has a burst move on a short cooldown.

The problem is ranged projectiles floating the extra 200u
and people not dodgeing

Also the damage from this attack stayed the same..now you can dodge the entire thing.

johnsonade.9547:

robertul.3679:

Yes but rangers fall to pieces if you get in their melee range. They can hiltbash you and use the kick on the block but then they are basically useless. Also the condition removal is pretty bad unless they trait for empatic bond.

That’s not actually true. Zero damage signet popped and your return fire or melee damage is useless.

How did u deal with the warrior balance stance?

All the while their beast can get a cc or a 3-4k attack off on you while they’re free attack without taking damage. They’ve got a lot of tools. Serious range and auto-attack, free buffs upon signet use, serious damage mitigation, and a top-tier down-state. All that and they honestly don’t have to weapon swap if they don’t want to. I’ll learn how to beat them, but it’s a strange day in me-land when I have to brainstorm up counterplay for the ranger class.

You are an engineer…
reflect and condi spam -= win.

Relentliss.2170:

Solori.6025:

Relentliss.2170:

Solori.6025:

Relentliss.2170:

It’s basically 100 blades at range. Oo

only when its buffed to high hell..
As the math depicts

Only a couple of classes have reflects.

Last time I checked only 2 classes don’t have reflects.

You are running out of arguements aren’t you.

Math proves you wrong.

Scenerio’s prove you wrong

and the fact all but 2 classes have some way to reflect or destroy projectiles…

pretty much makes this a losing arguement.

Can’t wait till people start realizing that medi guard is pretty much a hard counter.

I play a lot of classes and reflect is not really part of any build.

Because there was never a reason to use it before.

That’s the thing.

Dodge or reflect or both.

Every class that has one CAN fit in a reflect or projectile destruction
Hell some classes have them on weapons.

Again.

With the math provided.
The only way you are going to get100b damage is staying at range. With a crap ton of buffs.

Secondly.
Are you aware that every class has a move or a combo of burst that hits for 5k+

and some you can’t reliably dodge?

cough elementalist cough

Relentliss.2170:

Solori.6025:

Relentliss.2170:

It’s basically 100 blades at range. Oo

only when its buffed to high hell..
As the math depicts

Only a couple of classes have reflects.

Last time I checked only 2 classes don’t have reflects.

You are running out of arguements aren’t you.

Math proves you wrong.

Scenerio’s prove you wrong

and the fact all but 2 classes have some way to reflect or destroy projectiles…

pretty much makes this a losing arguement.

Can’t wait till people start realizing that medi guard is pretty much a hard counter.

Ehecatl.9172:

Relentliss.2170:

Ok my 100B might hit a target for 5k-7k… usually they are able to do something to stop some of it. And some of it is migigated by gear. Not to mention I actually had to put myself in harms way to do it.

The 2 skill on Longbow routinely hits every single person for 5k+. I am not sure how piercing works but it seems to slice through warriors and theives almost equally. See a person dodge once or twice then bam. And I can apply it from a very long way away.

100 Blows required a lot of factors to work correctly. This requires nothing but logging in.

You can mitigate the Rapid Fire damage using all the same methods as Hundred Blades. It doesn’t go through blocks and doesn’t hit through evades. Rapid Fire is also mitigated by gear. So I’m not sure why you brought up those points as if Rapid Fire couldn’t be negated or mitigated. Additionally Rapid Fire makes the ranger vulnerable to reflect, which enough professions have to make it a viable threat to consider. Hundred Blades can’t be reflected back at you to hit you with your own burst. Projectile destruction is another unique way to negate Rapid Fire damage that doesn’t apply to melee attacks.

Piercing requires a master tier trait Piercing Arrows to work. The 1,500 range needs another master tier trait Eagle Eye, so you likely won’t see someone with both. Without Eagle Eye the longbow also misses out on a 10% damage increase, so if the arrows are piercing they aren’t hitting quite as hard. You also tend to need the grandmaster trait Read the Wind to have the projectile speed needed to hit a target at max range, without it a longbow’s attacks can pretty much be negated by strafing.

Rapid Fire also has a ten second cooldown to Hundred Blade’s eight seconds. To get the eight second cooldown the ranger needs the master tier trait Quickdraw in the Skirmishing line. So for a full efficiency longbow build you need to invest seven trait points into it, leaving almost nothing for defense.

Finally, lets not forget that Rapid Fire is a single target skill unless traited for piercing, which I’ve already shown reduces it’s single target capabilities and range. Hundred Blades is a cleave and is capable of hitting a clustered group by default, which means a potentially substantial increase in damage under ideal circumstances.

If you’re getting hit by Rapid Fire and eating the full amount of damage in a one on one fight against a longbow ranger who is only hitting 2 and auto attacking you’re not playing very well. A longbow ranger played well will be relying on their pet to crowd control the target to land their burst similar to a warrior using their own immobilizes to line up a Hundred Blades.

While it’s true warriors have to get into melee to land their burst they also have higher armor and health than a ranger even when built full glass, and their burst happens to be on one of the highest mobility weapons in the game. A ranger’s longbow has zero mobility on it, and has to get by only with a three second stealth (that can be dodged/blocked to ensure the stealth doesn’t trigger) and a knockback. Greatsword has both Whirling Attack and Rush on fairly short cooldowns to either close the gap with their target or turn around to disengage, as well as Bladetrail as a mid-range cripple.

The longbow’s defense is it’s range. Without that it’d be nothing more than a greatsword without the mobility. Both weapons have pros and cons that have to be considered when discussing balance, you can’t just say “Rapid Fire is a ranged Hundred Blades!” as if that makes the entire weapon overpowered.

….all of this….

All

OF

IT

Solandri.9640:

PhantomClutch.7825:

Just so I understand.

Everyone defending agrees its ok to do 20k+ damage

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

An exotic longbow has 1000 average base damage.
Rapid Fire’s cumulative skill coefficient is 3.75.
Assume the target’s armor is 1800.
Assume Steady Focus (10% extra damage when endurance full).
Assume Eagle Eye (5% extra damage for longbow). Means no Spotter.
Assume Hunter’s tactics (10% extra damage when flanking).
Assume Peak Strength (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Scholar runes (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Sigil of Force (5% extra damage).
Assume Sigil of Bloodlust (250 extra power).
Assume 10% vulnerability from Opening Strike (5% + avg 5% from RF)

All those assumptions mandate a 45500 build. Outfitting it with exotic berserker’s armor and ascended berserker’s trinkets yields:
2355 power
51% crit chance
222% crit damage

1000 (2355+250) *3.75 *(1+0.51(2.22-1)) *(1+.1+.1+.1+.05+.05) *1.1 / 1800 = 13,558 damage

Methinks 20k damage from RF is a teensy bit of an exaggeration. I left out food and sharpening stone, but I think it’s pretty clear damage is nowhere near 20k. Maybe if someone else were giving you 25 stacks of might, fury, warrior banners, you might be able to hit 20k. But then you’re not facing a solo ranger, you’re facing a team who is working together to gank you.

to someone in 1.25s (if haste works how I believe it does) just because someone didn’t evade?

No, quickness does not work like that. It used to speed up attacks 100% (halved their time). But that got nerfed down to 50% last year (ranger DPS was hardest hit by that nerf, and they got the least compensation because some of their quickness didn’t get duration extensions).

2.5s becomes 2.5/1.5 = 1.67 sec.

People posting must be bad, it’s rangers did not get a 10% dps buff, they got alot more than 10%. Shortening LB2 by 50% means a straight up 50% dps increase, because you take less time to go through it.

RF wasn’t shorted by 50%. It went from 4 and a half to 2.5s. It was shortened by 44%.

And bear in mind that prior to this change, RF used to do just 93% the DPS of longbow’s autoattack.

Ranger longbow autoattack @ max range is .9/1 = 0.9 coeff/sec
Rapid Fire is 3.75/2.5 = 1.5 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.67

Warrior GS autoattack is (.77+.7+.9)/2.5 = 0.948 coeff/sec
100 blades is 5.5/3.5 = 1.57 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.66

Warrior rifle autoattack is .4/.96 = .417 coeff/sec
Volley is 3.0/2.5 = 1.2 coeff/sec
Ratio = 2.88

You really think RF’s extra DPS is out of line for a burst skill?

Also you’re forgetting the free grandmaster trait given to every range using signets, you don’t even need to trait for it, all signets now affect you too.

You mean the change that made signets work for rangers exactly like they’ve always worked for every profession except ranger? You’re trying to say that rangers deserved to have inferior signets compared to every other profession, and so bringing them up to par to everyone else is somehow doing rangers a favor?

Forestgreen.7981:

Also I said 50% damage increase on LB 2 skill specifically, not for the long bow in general. Note rangers got a straight up BUFF, and from what I saw no nerfs on a kitten thing to level the playing field.

RF does exactly the same damage as it did before. It’s just been compressed from 4.5 sec to 2.5 sec. That is, it’s DPS was increased 44%. It’s damage is the same as before.

As a weapon, if you assume longbow autoattack fills in the gaps between RF and Barrage whenever their cooldowns are up, then:

Before:
4.8 coeff / 2.75 sec every 30 sec (Barrage)
3.75 coeff / 4.5 sec every 10 sec (Rapid Fire)
0.9 coeff / 1 sec (autoattack)
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 + .9*13.75) = 28.425 coeff / 30 sec

After:
4.8 coeff / 2.25 sec every 30 sec
3.75 coeff / 2.5 sec every 10 sec
0.9 coeff / 1 sec
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 +.9*19.75) = 33.825 coeff/30 sec

33.825 / 28.425 = 1.19 = 19% damage buff for longbow

So basically, to even get 13-15k burst a ranger has to dedicate his entire build and utilities to one burst every 48 seconds.
AND
Hope that who ever this is happening to is complete trash.

I guess people want there free kills back?

Relentliss.2170:

It’s basically 100 blades at range. Oo

only when its buffed to high hell..
As the math depicts

Solandri.9640:

PhantomClutch.7825:

Just so I understand.

Everyone defending agrees its ok to do 20k+ damage

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

An exotic longbow has 1000 average base damage.
Rapid Fire’s cumulative skill coefficient is 3.75.
Assume the target’s armor is 1800.
Assume Steady Focus (10% extra damage when endurance full).
Assume Eagle Eye (5% extra damage for longbow). Means no Spotter.
Assume Hunter’s tactics (10% extra damage when flanking).
Assume Peak Strength (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Scholar runes (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Sigil of Force (5% extra damage).
Assume Sigil of Bloodlust (250 extra power).
Assume 10% vulnerability from Opening Strike (5% + avg 5% from RF)

All those assumptions mandate a 45500 build. Outfitting it with exotic berserker’s armor and ascended berserker’s trinkets yields:
2355 power
51% crit chance
222% crit damage

1000 (2355+250) *3.75 *(1+0.51(2.22-1)) *(1+.1+.1+.1+.05+.05) *1.1 / 1800 = 13,558 damage

Methinks 20k damage from RF is a teensy bit of an exaggeration. I left out food and sharpening stone, but I think it’s pretty clear damage is nowhere near 20k. Maybe if someone else were giving you 25 stacks of might, fury, warrior banners, you might be able to hit 20k. But then you’re not facing a solo ranger, you’re facing a team who is working together to gank you.

to someone in 1.25s (if haste works how I believe it does) just because someone didn’t evade?

No, quickness does not work like that. It used to speed up attacks 100% (halved their time). But that got nerfed down to 50% last year (ranger DPS was hardest hit by that nerf, and they got the least compensation because some of their quickness didn’t get duration extensions).

2.5s becomes 2.5/1.5 = 1.67 sec.

People posting must be bad, it’s rangers did not get a 10% dps buff, they got alot more than 10%. Shortening LB2 by 50% means a straight up 50% dps increase, because you take less time to go through it.

RF wasn’t shorted by 50%. It went from 4 and a half to 2.5s. It was shortened by 44%.

And bear in mind that prior to this change, RF used to do just 93% the DPS of longbow’s autoattack.

Ranger longbow autoattack @ max range is .9/1 = 0.9 coeff/sec
Rapid Fire is 3.75/2.5 = 1.5 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.67

Warrior GS autoattack is (.77+.7+.9)/2.5 = 0.948 coeff/sec
100 blades is 5.5/3.5 = 1.57 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.66

Warrior rifle autoattack is .4/.96 = .417 coeff/sec
Volley is 3.0/2.5 = 1.2 coeff/sec
Ratio = 2.88

You really think RF’s extra DPS is out of line for a burst skill?

Also you’re forgetting the free grandmaster trait given to every range using signets, you don’t even need to trait for it, all signets now affect you too.

You mean the change that made signets work for rangers exactly like they’ve always worked for every profession except ranger? You’re trying to say that rangers deserved to have inferior signets compared to every other profession, and so bringing them up to par to everyone else is somehow doing rangers a favor?

Forestgreen.7981:

Also I said 50% damage increase on LB 2 skill specifically, not for the long bow in general. Note rangers got a straight up BUFF, and from what I saw no nerfs on a kitten thing to level the playing field.

RF does exactly the same damage as it did before. It’s just been compressed from 4.5 sec to 2.5 sec. That is, it’s DPS was increased 44%. It’s damage is the same as before.

As a weapon, if you assume longbow autoattack fills in the gaps between RF and Barrage whenever their cooldowns are up, then:

Before:
4.8 coeff / 2.75 sec every 30 sec (Barrage)
3.75 coeff / 4.5 sec every 10 sec (Rapid Fire)
0.9 coeff / 1 sec (autoattack)
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 + .9*13.75) = 28.425 coeff / 30 sec

After:
4.8 coeff / 2.25 sec every 30 sec
3.75 coeff / 2.5 sec every 10 sec
0.9 coeff / 1 sec
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 +.9*19.75) = 33.825 coeff/30 sec

33.825 / 28.425 = 1.19 = 19% damage buff for longbow

taken from another thread.

All the math for Rapid fire.

Guess who doesnt need a list of buffs to do this damage and pops out from stealth

Solandri.9640:

PhantomClutch.7825:

Just so I understand.

Everyone defending agrees its ok to do 20k+ damage

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

An exotic longbow has 1000 average base damage.
Rapid Fire’s cumulative skill coefficient is 3.75.
Assume the target’s armor is 1800.
Assume Steady Focus (10% extra damage when endurance full).
Assume Eagle Eye (5% extra damage for longbow). Means no Spotter.
Assume Hunter’s tactics (10% extra damage when flanking).
Assume Peak Strength (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Scholar runes (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Sigil of Force (5% extra damage).
Assume Sigil of Bloodlust (250 extra power).
Assume 10% vulnerability from Opening Strike (5% + avg 5% from RF)

All those assumptions mandate a 45500 build. Outfitting it with exotic berserker’s armor and ascended berserker’s trinkets yields:
2355 power
51% crit chance
222% crit damage

1000 (2355+250) *3.75 *(1+0.51(2.22-1)) *(1+.1+.1+.1+.05+.05) *1.1 / 1800 = 13,558 damage

Methinks 20k damage from RF is a teensy bit of an exaggeration. I left out food and sharpening stone, but I think it’s pretty clear damage is nowhere near 20k. Maybe if someone else were giving you 25 stacks of might, fury, warrior banners, you might be able to hit 20k. But then you’re not facing a solo ranger, you’re facing a team who is working together to gank you.

to someone in 1.25s (if haste works how I believe it does) just because someone didn’t evade?

No, quickness does not work like that. It used to speed up attacks 100% (halved their time). But that got nerfed down to 50% last year (ranger DPS was hardest hit by that nerf, and they got the least compensation because some of their quickness didn’t get duration extensions).

2.5s becomes 2.5/1.5 = 1.67 sec.

People posting must be bad, it’s rangers did not get a 10% dps buff, they got alot more than 10%. Shortening LB2 by 50% means a straight up 50% dps increase, because you take less time to go through it.

RF wasn’t shorted by 50%. It went from 4 and a half to 2.5s. It was shortened by 44%.

And bear in mind that prior to this change, RF used to do just 93% the DPS of longbow’s autoattack.

Ranger longbow autoattack @ max range is .9/1 = 0.9 coeff/sec
Rapid Fire is 3.75/2.5 = 1.5 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.67

Warrior GS autoattack is (.77+.7+.9)/2.5 = 0.948 coeff/sec
100 blades is 5.5/3.5 = 1.57 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.66

Warrior rifle autoattack is .4/.96 = .417 coeff/sec
Volley is 3.0/2.5 = 1.2 coeff/sec
Ratio = 2.88

You really think RF’s extra DPS is out of line for a burst skill?

Also you’re forgetting the free grandmaster trait given to every range using signets, you don’t even need to trait for it, all signets now affect you too.

You mean the change that made signets work for rangers exactly like they’ve always worked for every profession except ranger? You’re trying to say that rangers deserved to have inferior signets compared to every other profession, and so bringing them up to par to everyone else is somehow doing rangers a favor?

Forestgreen.7981:

Also I said 50% damage increase on LB 2 skill specifically, not for the long bow in general. Note rangers got a straight up BUFF, and from what I saw no nerfs on a kitten thing to level the playing field.

RF does exactly the same damage as it did before. It’s just been compressed from 4.5 sec to 2.5 sec. That is, it’s DPS was increased 44%. It’s damage is the same as before.

As a weapon, if you assume longbow autoattack fills in the gaps between RF and Barrage whenever their cooldowns are up, then:

Before:
4.8 coeff / 2.75 sec every 30 sec (Barrage)
3.75 coeff / 4.5 sec every 10 sec (Rapid Fire)
0.9 coeff / 1 sec (autoattack)
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 + .9*13.75) = 28.425 coeff / 30 sec

After:
4.8 coeff / 2.25 sec every 30 sec
3.75 coeff / 2.5 sec every 10 sec
0.9 coeff / 1 sec
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 +.9*19.75) = 33.825 coeff/30 sec

33.825 / 28.425 = 1.19 = 19% damage buff for longbow

I’m borrowing your math

Lupanic.6502:

if you are smart you can blind the warrior or block the 8k damage. All you can do vs the ranger is reduce it to 4k and in 8 sec you have to try it again.

With the immob from elite, the pets and muddy terrain the dodge is very easy :/

Ok..

Because everyone seems to be missing their brain today we are going to go over a skill effect called reflect.

Reflect is a combat mechanic that returns incoming projectile attacks to their source, including all properties of the projectiles; the original target is unaffected by a reflected attack. However, reflected attacks do not count as hits and will not trigger hit-based effects, such as on-hit sigil effects. Unblockable projectiles cannot be reflected.

For example, if a ranger attacks a foe using the longbow’s Rapid Fire, the arrows will be reflected back at the ranger. If any hit, the ranger will be damaged and be affected by vulnerability; the target will not.

Each projectile can only be reflected twice, after which they will go through any further reflecting effects unless they can also block projectiles.

You can
A- Dodge. mitigating the majority of the barrage or
B- Reflect…and kill the ranger..

C. Play a thief and sneeze in the general direction of the ranger.
I can guarantee you they are zerker’s

D. Load them up with conditions. Because killing a ranger with condition damage is really
REALLY easy.

New players, and all the bad warriors are going to fill buckets of tears for the next month.

I just came out of hotjoin and killed two rangers and an ele spamming the fiery greatsword skill.

Reflects on a mesmer + shatter is hilarious.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Fun fact: Rapid Fire doesn’t deal more damage. It’s just faster. Which gives you the opportunity to dodge almost the whole attack.

quickness..
Your not dodgeing the majority of it before it hurts you. I think every ranger i have encountered today (including myself) has something that either procs quickness or grants it.

It’s funny

You should try it.

Sebrent.3625:

I play Ranger and Mesmer primarily … quite happy

Oh i have been laughing for like 10 minutes now at the buff for longbow

I am very happy with it.
So
Freakin
Happy..

Like I can picture the faces of people that see like 7k missing in 2 seconds from range..

For this ranger take over.

Bow down to your new pew pew lords peasants.

Really though I find it funny the massive amount of QQ mesmers got.
Just for rangers to come up and blow everything up with this new rapid fire buff..

I think we ( mesmers) should take a page from the ranger community.
When you get a buff..

ZIP IT!

Ithilwen.1529:

I hate the class divide among Mesmers. I do have a GW1 Mesmer and have been playing long enough to have about 9k achievement. I also play on an old laptop with often crumby net.

Then I go out and do something that is regarded as dumb and get told something like, “You ain’t no Mez,” (sic)

There are no schools. It’s rare to to find someone willing to teach.

If you don’t like the new changes to scepter that are coming out, look in the mirror

A new Mesmer has zero chance of getting on the high and mighty tier and is mostly on their own.

Thus ANET needs to make a faceroll Mesmer build available. That’s partially the fault of all you “experts” out there.

//end rant

If you dont want to do a quick forum search of the guides posted on the main page of this subforum.
Then it is entirely your fault.

No one can make you get better.
That part is entirely up to you.

Mogar.9216:

sirrealist.1360:

Solori.6025:

Dodging for no reason
YOU ALREADY HAVE 3 CLONES WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT!!

So funny when I see this!

maybe to kill one of those 3 to trigger clone death effects ?

that would be nice if

A. you could control which clone explodes and
B. If im next to a clone.

Too often on my mes or thief have I fought a mesmer that will double dodge for no reason.
Like hey..
You know I can shatter your life away.
Why you do dis?

Backpeddling
Please stop.
I can tell who you are when you do this.

Dodging for no reason
YOU ALREADY HAVE 3 CLONES WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT!!

No Condi-Cleanse

Why you do dis?

Kicast.1459:

dancingmonkey.4902:

In my opinion, once your making threads complaining about how one specific profession will have an advantage over you, you have kind of really started grasping at straws.

Just ask engineers about fighting necros (engies have the least congi removal)

Just as necros about fighting any build with CC (no vigor, stability, and long cool downs on stun breakers)

Just asked thieves about being revealed by rangers and soon to be engineers

Just ask guardian about fighting poison spam builds (they have low HP base, and are designed to make that up with consistent heals)

In the other hand…what are thiefs weak against ?
Squishy ?….no when played well s/d thief at least is the most difficukt class to down
Reavealed by rangers ?….not a problem…at least for s/d
Teamfights….pvp is 5v5…thief have a nice place in this scale

You know that nerf that is coming to thieves next patch?

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Azo.5860:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

I was just going to make a post on the state of mez in PvP. Every mez I come across is playing pu or a variant of it. Then I came across this post.

I have to say I am glad and can’t wait for this change to be implemented.

We will note see who is a mez and who is not. What I mean is who play the class because they like the class and the game play to those who play the class because of how op a pu build can be..

So to those that are crying about this change, either you learn to play a different build or go play another class.

It that simple.

And pls divide competitive gaming and casual gaming.. It ll help more on state of mes..

I don’t agree with pu not been good in competitive game play. Yes in most cases you won’t run it cause of point loss when you stay hidden for to long, but you can play pu as an offensive play.

If you look at each skills and say this is all difference or offence, then you are narrowing your view of the class.

We not seeing mez in high level pvp game is more to do with the class been broken or all the bugs or Anet not sure how to balance the class and not the build/pu.

I am not going to get into any text war with anyone over my thoughts on pu and competitive tpvp, this are my thoughts and I stand by it.

Umm no.

PU isn’t used because of it’s reliance on a the one trait, which requires you to stealth btw, and it’s inability to do a significant amount of DPS to a bunker, or someone holding a point.
In a team game, cleanses are being tossed out at random thanks to most comps running 1+ ele.
and because of the abundance of hambow this meta the chances of your conditions sticking is low, resulting in a longer TTK, much longer than say a shatter mes, which is one of the spec’s most used in tpvp because of its burst ability.

In Tpvp, the objective is to hold points.
PU can not do that efficiently, therefore
PU is not a good competitive build.
No matter how you try and spin it.

Terrahero.9358:

and it also happens to be the one thing arenanet’s balance doesnt take into consideration whatsoever.

.

Mesmer PU and clone death nerfs.

They listen to whoever whines the loudest, about any unsupported game mode.

just and FYI

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-Poll-Scepter-Auto-Attack-Torment/page/5#post4350768

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Mesmer-CHANGE-THE-CHANGES/page/4#post4354352

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/sPvP-Mesmer-Scepter-buff/first#post4337969

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Condi-Mesmer-Master-of-Torment

I haven’t checked the spvp forum..you can do that ( i believe in you)

blakdoxa.7520:

Solori.6025:

Oh…Well..maybe next time the mesmer community wont cry about a buff…

You asked for a nerf, you cried about a mesmer spec despite the devs throwing you a bone, this is the outcome. Maybe next time the devs decide to be nice to us. Instead of throwing a tantrum and following someones blind crusade against there own profession. You’ll sit back, and enjoy the buff.
You asked for this, deal with it

Where are these people that voted for a nerf? Was it the last CDI?

Also I’m seeing people only talk about PU… What about other mesmer builds affected by these changes or was this community more stagnant than I believed…

Do i need to link you to every thread about the mesmer changes in the forum or are you actually gonna read a few?

They have 1 in this sub forum where people voted on Scepter AA and the majority voted against it because of fear that the passive nature of PU would be stronger.

Never say the devs don’t listen to our feedback.
Because they “shaved” the passive nature of mesmer.
For everyone.

because I like history I’ll link you a few threads..

Maybe i can even find the stream from helseth that people took to heart

Brutal Augus.5917:

There is no viable argument you could make that would make AA torment a good idea. For any class. Yes, there are plenty of ways various mesmer builds could be altered to increase their viability, but giving this class AA torment IS NOT THE ANSWER. Could they improve clone shatter? YES. Could they improve the clone AI so it’s not running into a freakin wall when it should be helping me kill my target and enemies aren’t able to just completely ignore their existence and just quickly burn my hp?? YES. Could they improve the scepter AA to make it so its not completely useless and shunned by mesmers? YES, but that doesn’t call for AA torment. I don’t want to play it first and then comment, that means it will be in the game for months before Anet even bats an eyebrow and anyone with a brain and knows anything about this condition knows this is a horrible idea. All bias aside. I enjoy the class the way it is, I feel like it actually took time and skill to master. These changes will take away all of that, making the class feel passive. Screw that.

The changes to scepter are happening.

From the latest skillbar.

They nerfed PU and clonedeath traits.

But scepter AA is here to stay.

Oh…Well..maybe next time the mesmer community wont cry about a buff…

You asked for a nerf, you cried about a mesmer spec despite the devs throwing you a bone, this is the outcome. Maybe next time the devs decide to be nice to us. Instead of throwing a tantrum and following someones blind crusade against there own profession. You’ll sit back, and enjoy the buff.
You asked for this, deal with it

Brutal Augus.5917:

Carighan.6758:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Because Mesmers are all over the game modes right now. /sarcasm

Your sarcasm is ill placed, the key words in the above post was TURN INTO. Your sarcasm seems to be aimed at the present. A reading comprehension mistake on your part.

Brutal Augus.5917:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Ahahahaha, warrior detected.
Can you tell us in which game mod condie mesmer will be OP?
Now:

• wars OP at pve, mesmers useless
• wars OP at WvW, mesmers useless
• wars OP at SPvP, mesmers useless unless 1 man at all mesmer community
  oh condie pu mesmers immortal 1×1 but also can not kill someone because have not chase abilities.

buddy, I play EVERY CLASS. I have 8 80’s. Guard, Necro, mesmer, warrior, engineer, elementalist, thief and yes even a ranger.

I have 10, working on 11 ( second mesmer)

Brutal Augus.5917:

*who gives a kitten about PvE? When you make class balance changes they have to be based around PvP settings. This is just the way it has to be or else you end up with total imbalance.

and if you did any kind of pvp you would know how useful PU mes is in any type of tournament situation ( it’s not, but you can go ahead and try it)

Brutal Augus.5917:

*Mesmers useless in WvW? You obviously do not play WvW.

..Such viel,
much solo roam

wow…

Maybe you should actually try playing the mesmer outside of WvW dueling?

Brutal Augus.5917:

*You just made my point!! If you give condo PU AA torment it will= god mode because moving while under the effects of torment it does extra damage to moving targets and chasing will no longer be necessary!!! Torment stacks not only duration but intensity as well and when you can apply torment every 1/2 a second it just spells disaster for class balance. You would think this would be completely obvious, but I still have to spell it out for some people.

Well..considering this is a buff…to a build that is useless outside of EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THE GAME…

I honestly understand why people are saying meh to torment AA. I mean its not like PU is going to magically become a Tpvp standard when it cant even hold a point..

You know..in pvp..

holding a point is a thing…

Brutal Augus.5917:

The mesmer is in a GOOD PLACE.

I don’t think anyone can take you seriously anymore.

Brutal Augus.5917:

Based on most of your comments, I think you just haven’t learned to play your mesmer, considering I’ve never had any issues killing warriors on mine, and I use an interrupt mes tank build I made myself.

Oh neat. I use a shatter…
You know the one that is useful and harder to play because you’re a paper doll with clones….that one..

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

selan.8354:

who cares honestly. we get buffs people cry and talk about op nes already before its even done yet. before that for months we have been waiting for buffs. now u can see that pu is getting a harsh nerf. do u still dont want the scepter buff? seriously. we need and well deserve buffs, they obviously dont wanna buff confusion so now its torment…so what? we need this! we need at least something, but instead of testing it out first with the whole patch and everything u guys already panicing! seriously u wanna prevent us from ever getting out of the veilbot hole, well u are exactly doing that with a poll like this before the patch has even hit. u dont know how many other things anet will nerf. history has shown how they always give us a tiny buff somewhere just so they can nerf something else into the ground!
how about u wait before u panic!! and i alray know the pu and clone death nerf wont be the only ones, im sure they will add either a new bug or another buildbreaking nerf to that. but hey keep crying about oh we are now brainlessly op…….. and then when anet changes it because of your amazing poll u cry because we dont get any buffs!!!

You want buffs and you don’t care how it affects the game overall?

Well the buff is happening. Whether you (or anyone) likes it or not.

PU and DD traits have been nerfed to compensate.

But Scepter AA is staying.

Navi.7142:

I didn’t say every mesmer build. But it could have an effect (for every mesmer player) when you are running such a build or you want to.
However..

I think catering to pvp players and punishing pve mesmers at the same time is bad and I don’t like that.

ummm Yes…

Yes you did..

Navi.7142:

Oh, WOW. Congratulation that every mesmer will receive these nerfs, even if you would never play a PU based build.

Very nice for pve mesmers that their clone on death are now also effected by these changes. WOOOOOOW.

THANKS! Not.

:(

Navi.7142:

Oh, WOW. Congratulation that every mesmer will receive these nerfs, even if you would never play a PU based build.

:(

Navi.7142:

Congratulation that every mesmer will receive these nerfs,
:(

Navi.7142:

every mesmer ,
:(

Liewec.2896:

perhaps they’ll give you something in 6 months time.
there were some good changes, notably the deathshroud downing/rezzing.
but the nerf to lich was incredibly harsh,
cutting the duration by a third and cutting the damage output considerably.

atleast this should stop thieves and eles complaining about getting the biggest kick in the teeth

? I was still seeing lich hit for 4.9k in the skillbar?

Do you mean a dps loss due to duration?
Because nothing is alive for that long after it gets liched in the face

zaxon.6819:

whhy does pu need protection /aegis at all when they spend 90 percent of a fight in stealth dodge rolling. if you cant live with a torch / decoy /massinvis / and alot of times even veil.. then you should not be playing the game at all. your only time out of stealth can be scepter blocking. but that just shows how bad and useless the spec is.

I agree with this.

Fay.2357:

Solori.6025:

Fay.2357:

The PU nerfs are minor in comparison to the clone death nerfs.

Look a PU this way. Now a PU Mesmer also has innate access to both might and swiftness without needing to swap a focus or use stuff like battle runes. That’s more mobility, more chasing ability, and more pressure, for a small sacrifice of defense.

The clone death nerfs, on the other hand, are a perfect example of the Anet brand whack-a-mole balancing. Making them dodgeable, blockable, and blindable is an enormous nerf, on top of an additional unnecessary nerf to an already unreliable bleed application. Those aspects were what let the traits be strong against perma-evade spamming thieves, against blind spam from thieves and guardians and engineers, and just in general made the traits unique and strong.

Absolutely massive nerf. PU condie builds will still work of course, but what this really hits is any non-PU build that is based on those traits. Now the defense and sustain of PU will be 100% essential to viably play a condition build. Once again, Anet succeeds in limiting Mesmer build diversity with heavy handed nerf batting.

I disagree with some but I will wait to play with the changes before I make a final judgement on the matter.

I think with the changes to IE the clone death traits being mitagatable will be minamal
Especially considering you can make more very easily.

The access to having might and swiftness on PU is both a blessing and a curse i think.
The main thing people used that trait for was the access to prot and aegis. Both of which are ridiculously strong boons to have almost every 20 seconds.

We’ll see, is what I am putting this under.

With the clone death changes, good luck fighting something like a pistol whip or S/D thief. The thing is that the clone deaths countered the mindless defensive spam that is prevalent in the game. It means thieves couldn’t just spam blinds or evades and cleave their way through your clones, and it meant that engies spamming blind fields and grenades would get loaded up with condies regardless of their point-wide blinds.

Now that’s all gone. It also means that clone deaths will be even more useless in groups than they were before, due to random dodges and aegis spam. Basically, it’s just an unnecessary nerf to an interesting mechanic.

S/D thieves are getting nerfed as well.
I haven’t seen to many PW thieves but if I remember correctly that build got nerfed months ago.

Engineer’s might be a problem, but this is still going to be a wait and see for me, until I actually fight one post patch.

Im curious to see how IE+scepter buffs will work on a mesmer build now that PU isn’t mandatory.

Logan is a guardian but fails at protecting people

Fay.2357:

The PU nerfs are minor in comparison to the clone death nerfs.

Look a PU this way. Now a PU Mesmer also has innate access to both might and swiftness without needing to swap a focus or use stuff like battle runes. That’s more mobility, more chasing ability, and more pressure, for a small sacrifice of defense.

The clone death nerfs, on the other hand, are a perfect example of the Anet brand whack-a-mole balancing. Making them dodgeable, blockable, and blindable is an enormous nerf, on top of an additional unnecessary nerf to an already unreliable bleed application. Those aspects were what let the traits be strong against perma-evade spamming thieves, against blind spam from thieves and guardians and engineers, and just in general made the traits unique and strong.

Absolutely massive nerf. PU condie builds will still work of course, but what this really hits is any non-PU build that is based on those traits. Now the defense and sustain of PU will be 100% essential to viably play a condition build. Once again, Anet succeeds in limiting Mesmer build diversity with heavy handed nerf batting.

I disagree with some but I will wait to play with the changes before I make a final judgement on the matter.

I think with the changes to IE the clone death traits being mitagatable will be minamal
Especially considering you can make more very easily.

The access to having might and swiftness on PU is both a blessing and a curse i think.
The main thing people used that trait for was the access to prot and aegis. Both of which are ridiculously strong boons to have almost every 20 seconds.

We’ll see, is what I am putting this under.

Loki.2894:

Solori.6025:

Loki.2894:

The adrenaline nerf is not going to be huge. Longbow is fastest adrenaline generator and doesnt need a target to clear 3 conditions, theres just going to be a lot more lb camping (on a 5 second weaponswap i might add).

You dont lose adrenaline unless you leave combat, and earthshaker is pretty hard to miss as it is. The only thing it affects is eviscerate.

Signet, hammer and burst on longbow is still OP nerf it more.

another thing to add the above list is a 5 second weaponswap – WHY?? give it to all classes

If you are in hotjoin fighting new players then yes
ES is really easy to land, because people don’t know any better.

If you are argueing that you can land a reliable ES when its a X v 1

Yes, any class can be downed when they are fighting X v 1

This nerf to adrenaline is going to effect every spamtastic warrior who didn’t bother to learn the profession thoroughly, and by thoroughly i mean learning to bait dodges, cooldowns, etc.

They are getting nerfs and buffs next patch, and really if you are playing a thief. You have the most rewarding braindead spec in the game right now and its only going to get worse next patch because you can evade and stealth at a whim.

Have you played a theif? its extremely difficult – you get stunned once and your dead. Anyone using s/d spamming 3 is an idiot as your technique is obvious and a well timed stun/knockback means your toast.

LOL no you aren’t

You get stunned- Teleport away

OR steal and daze your target while your stunned.

No one spams 3 unless their bad or new.
But you still are FAR from dead from a single stun.
IF you get stunned.