Guild Wars 2

Lucentfir.7430:

Dee Jay.2460:

That deduction would be entirely correct.

There’s a reason they are so over-represented in all aspects of the game, from WvW over PvE to sPvP.

People are too focused on 1v1s when talking about balance (for understandable reasons) and that’s why Guardians tend to “fly under the radar”. But their win-ratio and impact on games is undeniable.

So if I hear the devs say “Guardians are fine” one more time during the next podcast they will lose what little credibility they have left.

Just question, if guardians are really, under radar and they actually decide to nerf Guardian’s ability to bunker well where does that leave the class? Is it worth breaking a class that really isn’t broken just so other classes can feel optimal in a place where they’re supposed to excel? There are classes that have the obviously superior roles that a guardian cannot fill. Warriors fill the CC and damage role much better than a guardian can. Thief has very high mobility to point cap and kill/burst squishy targets, Engies utility and AoE. Ele Support and strong AoE/control. Mesmers/Necro boon manipulation (Necro condition/debuff/AoE/Control)

Guardians are balanced since they sacrifice in order to excel in a specific field, such as DPS spec (meditations)leaves you in a very squishy state with only small burst heals and very little to no boon access(weak against CC). Bunker specs a losses a huge chunk of their damage in order to live longer and better support teammates with support weapons and shouts.

Top Tpvp scene is perfect logic to nerf something. Every team using a -insert profession here-? Nerf it because it’s always seen in that area of play and all other game modes. It must be OP.

But that goes against what this thread is about?

You know,

nerfing things because of over-representation…

We cant have that.. I here by declare you a guardian fanboy and anything you say is biased

/satire

We getting the message yet people or do i need to go all Edgar Allen Poe in this piece?

Aberrant.6749:

Vanthian.9267:

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now.

The entire Warrior profession was a joke in this game for around one and half years. You can deal with six months of a mediocre profession.

Every profession can kill a Warrior if the player is competent enough. Warrior is still not the best profession by any stretch of the imagination in any faucet of the game you care to mention.

Just because they are popular and easy to play doesn’t make them good or overpowered. It just means the general skill level of the community has sunken to new lows.

Because a profession was UP for a while doesn’t therefor make it ok for it to be too strong now. Wars have been too strong for ~1 year now. Even the dev’s laughed at how warriors were too strong in a livestream.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now. I really don’t get why we even need a passive heal in a game with so few abilities. It’s not like we need less abilities to use.

That and Runes of Strength are probably what keep Warriors so good.

However should Healing Signet and Runes of Strength ever be nerfed (which they totally should) I think Warriors will fall in line. Stuff like double Endure Pain will seem less kittened when he doesn’t heal for 5000 HP while it’s active. Other things too will seem less ridiculous.

would you kindly stop spewing ridiculous nonsense like that already?
warriors are already in line.

get over it already?

That’s why you commonly see 2x war in tournament teams. Totally balanced.

Actually,

In the Recent TOL

teams without a guardian were more likely to lose ( and irc the team without a guardian lost pretty kitten bad)

By that logic, Guardians are OP, because they were the most represented in both the NA and EU ToL with most teams going with up to two guardians.

Bottom line.
Guardians are OP because of their over representation
They need to be toned down.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Solori.6025:

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

now, how many can you get into the same build?
Sure we have plenty of ways to deal with them if we build exactly right but you cant just list everything we have. You cant get most of that in the same build.

As for the 1/6/6/0/0 build that you mentioned that is NOT that great. You lose healing, You lose the benefit that comes with going into Arcane as well.

well, seeing as how you can have any given 2 in a weapon set depending on what you use, and then you can have 1 from utilities.

You can have up to 6
IF YOU WANT TO.

This is where this argument falls, you are essentially complaining about a condition that you can counter
IF YOU BUILD FOR IT.

If you don’t want to take condi cleanses OR use weapon skill’s that remove up to 3 conditions wisely you have no one but yourself to blame.

“But what if they load me up with conditions and I just swapped out of water?”
^You just got outplayed, plain and simple.

Conditions like chill shouldn’t be a problem for an ele.

Sorry I meant 0/0/10/30/30
The build I have been seeing for the past few weeks now -_-

But lets say you decide to do a 1/6/6/0/0
(condi-ele exist, though not the best build, it exist I saws it..)

You have diamond skin, and since I’m pretty sure you wont be using staff for this

You still have the ability to get
4 other skills that remove conditions

P.S. even in Earth you have a trait called Geomancers Freedom.

Add that to runes of Hoelbrak and you now reduce the duration of said conditions by an added 20%

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Tamariel.6074:

So we all know that when using harvesting tools, if you try and harvest something above the level, you get a ruined/unusable scrap of whatever, logs, fiber, etc. With this in mind, I think that when harvesting materials so much lower than your tool level that it shouldn’t consume a use of the tool.
For example harvesting copper ore with an orichalcum pick uses up as many uses as it does harvesting orichalcum ore. If you can’t harvest materials above the level of your tool, there should be some benefit to having a higher level tool, especially if the requirement for using orichalcum tools is being level 60 in the first place.

No, That is the point. If you harvest below your level (you are leveled to that map) and I don’t see a problem. It would cause an issue with the economy. If you can’t afford the 4 silver for each of the lvl 60 tools, you have more problems than just paying for the tools.

No I don’t like this kitten idea.

How does it ruin the economy when the economy is already broken?

Secondly, the point is for harvesting to be progressive, great, but then you get to a point where it’s not rewarding at all.

Thirdly, it’s not a matter of money, you can get 10g a day doing a couple of hours of hardcore karka farming.
What is a problem is having no reward for getting high harvesting tools.
Better suggestion, why not have the tools act similair to the salvaging kits. The higher lvl the tool the better chances for critical harvesting you get ( 2-3 ore per swing instead of one).
As it stand’s now, its more rewarding to do a dungeon and buy the materials instead of spending the hours needed to farm them in a zone.
And also more profitable.

oZii.2864:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Warriors and d/d eles are broken in PVP at the moment because of this runeset (for warriors moreso intelligence sigil on PTV amulet coupled with runes). It’s only a matter of time before it’s nerfed.

That is my point. Ele is not viable because the class is strong. They are viable because of an unbalanced runeset and once that gets nerfed and it will. They will just be back down where they were.

Disappointing Ash! If you really know ele you know that strength isn’t why ele is viable. It’s might which could be done with hoelbrak.

Hoelbrak and strength give 6 arcana Eles 9 stacks of might permanent with a battle sigil. The 7% modifier is getting to much credit for what 7% mod actually does it’s an increase but the meta build is a bunker/brawler with 2 in earth.

Just flat no armor consideration. 1500 lightning whip = 1607 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo!

3000 burning speed = 3210 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo.

It’s the might that matters the 7% modifier isn’t as big as people make it out to be on a bunker build with only 2 modifiers.

They nerf strength Eles will use hoelbrak if it’s better, they nerf hoelbrak Eles will use water or pirate if it’s better. They would have to go through 4 rune sets to stop ele from stacking might like it can now or nerf ele.

People complain now imagine if Eles put on water runes.

on topic isn’t meta breaking mean unplayable? Or is there some other meaning to breaking I don’t know like almost OP, kind of OP, sort of OP, to OP.

Why you do dis?!

Lettuce.2945:

CLASSIFIED INFORMATION

DUDE SHUSH.

The less people know about good things the faster i can get my dragon rank. >:I

Ario.8964:

Ok shadow, yes it was in fact helpful they were valid points so thank you for contributions now back to the post you are not very happ with me calling unhelpful, I figured it would be common sense to use up all character slots before deleting and therefore was unnecessary to state but I admit I was wrong to say that so now I give you my apologies. And Bhawb, nice idea I will do that. So now that this has become very helpful I shall thank you all one final time and go dungeoning. Goodbye!

Delete the ranger..no one needs those
:P

Ezeriel.9574:

Anet deleted my last post due to snarky remarks, but they said I could repost it, minus said snarky remarks….

So, before this thread gets derailed….

I was not playing my engineer. It does not matter what class I was playing. I was at range, and not under pressure. It was a zerg v zerg moment. I was not at full health, so I will allow for the possibility of 3 stacks of vulnerability.

I had 2600+ armor. It’s not a lot, but it’s far, far from glassy, and every piece of equipment my character was wearing had +toughness.

I have no idea what buffs the thief had. I died so fast, their toon may have not even rendered, and of course I was stomped while they were stealthed.

Ok some things to note.

A glass cannon thief cannot..* CANNOT* survive in a zerg full of AoE’s going off at once.
Which means you were hanging out in the back.
That means that you were away from the main zerg if you were not at full health. OR you were in the tail during a zerg v zerg manuever.

Either way, you were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Secondly. That spec is extremely easy to deal with. You may want to invest in elixer S or tool belt, or get better at your environmental awareness.

Thirdly. Why are you complaining about a spec that people learned to counter last year?

Cold Hearted Person.6154:

In fact my main build for wvw solo roaming(wont meantion which profession) can easly achive perma protection, and i dont even have to try to do it, most of it comes from passive traits and passive rune effects.

p.s. forgot to meantion that after 5 minute fight in wvw i end up with 2 minutes of swiftness on me.

So you wont mention the profession or provide a build..

Yea, you are such a reliable source we should just blindly trust what you say right?

BTW I think fox news is hiring.

Dual.8953:

Penguin.5197:

Dual.8953:

Stealth condi-bombs. Good lord

Watcha talking bout haven’t you ever fought a burst condi thief before? :P

Not really. At lease thief condis mostly have to be used out of stealth. I can also see a stealth Necro being like PU’s kitten grandma. Better defense, better condi, better minion spam, better attrition.

Better Pizza
Papa Johns

….Sorry that reminded me of a commercial..

Aza.2105:

no obvious animations or cast times

Aza.2105:

*no obvious animations *

Aza.2105:

• obvious animations *

You’re joking right?!?!

You have got to be kidding, NO ONE can be that humanly bad to die to lich form as a thief.

THE NECRO IS A GIANT GREEN GLOWING BEACON.

not only is this an elite, this is an elite that tells people to come destroy you.
An ELITE skill, that you can outrun and outrange is too powerful?!

Next we will start to complain about how OP juggernaut and tornado are.

Here is a better compromise.
Put basalisk venom on a 90s CD and make blinding powder a dark field.
Lets nerf those first yea?

Liewec.2896:

bethekey.8314:

I never thought I would see the day.

Guild Wars 2 Bucket List

• People complaining about turrets – Check

honestly? you didn’t foresee Anet buffing another AI spec?
give it time and i’m sure they’ll buff spirit weapons too so you can cross another AI crutch build off your list too!

ironically the only AI they seem to consistently nerf is the ranger pets,
which is the one AI that we’d expect to be decent since it is a mandatory mechanic for the entire class.

You obviously didnt get the memo about bearbow.
Which is completely OP AND can 1 v 1 everything in the game.

Almoryk Kane.6085:

The fact that you have to trigger the moves during the channeling of a stomp is proof enough that these skills are not intended to be used like that. And though there are counter for it seems like the chances of a perfect counter are not only going to be found. And the suggestion of “don’t die play better” is a stupid suggestion.

ok better suggestion.

Go play more, get better, and die less..

Or.

Go play league of legends and complain about dying there…

OORRrr..

Go play an Ele and come back and tell us how easy they were for you to play,

You wont if you cant do the first suggestion..

Aidan Savage.2078:

Jekkt.6045:

Sartharina.3542:

Condition Duration makes it easier to spam/stack conditions, Jekkt – It’s the difference between struggling to keep 3 stacks of Bleed on someone, and coasting at 12-15.

condi spam = fast applying of conditions. duration is for stacking. to spam conditions you need stuff like geomancy runes, bleed skills and bleeds on crit. big kitten nal of different conditions is helpful too of course.

usually conditions come from auto attacks and auto attacks will never have long duration conditions. more conditions with a fast applyable short duration is actually better against condi cleanse than few stacks with long duration.

Necro scepter/focus condi build applies 2 stacks of 10.5 second bleeds and 7 seconds of poison every auto attack cycle. Grasping Dead applies 3 stacks at 13.5 seconds, and signet of spite applies 2 stacks of bleed for 18 seconds. Grasping Dead -> Signet of Spite -> AA -> Grasping Dead -> Epidemic: ~20-25 stacks of bleed dropped in an AoE. Combined with the Necro trait that gives bleed on crit procs and sigil of earth for another bleed on crit proc, you can be looking at a full 25 stacks every time you do that rotation.

and a warrior can do a full 100b with 5 stacks of might →8k, then switch to eviscerate for 8k

hit you with two AA’s for safe measure

dead everything that is AFK…
just like getting 25 stacks of bleeding at once from a necro.
On a rotation that you dont cleanse
and sit AFK for.

Magi.8061:

Its normal WvWmadness, even in full berserker you wont be able to kill an average warrior solo, unless he afks at least 30 seconds. My Advice: dont try it or play warrior/thief for easy kills.

Why are you trolling the newbies?

BurrTheKing.8571:

Terrahero.9358:

Lifestealer.4910:

What is this warrior meta you talk about. Most teams i see consist of 2+ engis and even most top EU team started to drop warriors and put more engis on their team.

If anything this is the engi meta we are in.

Funny enough we just got a big tournament on which 128 teams competed, and we can safely conclude that you are wrong.
Engineer was the second least played profession, and Warrior the second most played profession. Especially in the top teams, who would even field double-warrior at times.

Similarly Condition builds were under-represented aswell. So any complaints about either engineers or conditions is just a good indication of the level the complainer plays on, protip, its nowhere near the top.

Those tournaments happened shortly after the patch and the teams were probably not willing to changing up their team compositions. New metas don’t form overnight.

The NA ToL happened late enough for there to be some new variety of a meta…If I remember correctly, it stayed like it has been for the last 9-10 months. Even the “Condition heavy tournament” predictions were proven to be completely wrong( a condition heavy team getting shut down by a support heavy team).

The power/CC meta is going to stay, because it’s what works the best in this games PvP, and that should have been made obvious with this past tournament

why not just remove ALL food from WvW..

Can one of you explain why food in wvw is a must?!

Velektrian.5491:

Solori.6025:

Velektrian.5491:

Either way, It is either the Warrior who is too OP V Chill (but with dogged march, Cleansing Ire, Melandru and Lemongrass LOL) or an Elementalist who gets royally screwed and completely HARD COUNTERED by one condition. There should be no Hard counters in this game. Hard counters take the fun away, soft counters are fine.

But an ele doesnt get hard countered by this..

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them.

Also I love how you list things like lemon grass and melandru like they are warrior exclusive.

Outside of cleansing Ire, and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

Right…

Lets say someone Smacks you full of conditions so you switch to water, Cast a cantrip or two, dodge roll and heal/remove those conditions. You would then like to deal some damage, switch to air.

The Opponent then smacks you with chill out the Wazoo and now you can’t switch back to water for about 16 seconds because of chill to remove any other condition he is likely to apply. All somone has to do to beat an ele is cover Chill with other Conditions.

As an Ele V Chill scenario this is common against any serious Condi build (Especially Necro and Engi). If most of an Ele’s condi cleanse comes from water attunement, then against any proper Condi Bunker, you will have a hard time keeping up with chill if you switch out of water to attack. And don’t say attck in Water because LOL.

Chill Is a Hard counter to an Ele. Well… Any Ele who doesn’t build to remove 10 Conditions every ten seconds, but lets face it, with removing that many conditions you ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING IN THE FIGHT. Which is the same thing as, You Lose.

ps. LOL at Trident. Ele underwater hits about as hard as a rabbit in this game.

water trident is a skill on scepter….
going with a scepter/dagger setup

you have more than just water to remove conditions.

Lets say you go with a dagger/focus setup

You also have more than just water to remove conditions

But lets say you go with a pure D/D

and you get hit with signet of spite.

you go into water remove two, use cleansing wave -remove one, dodge roll -remove another, then use your cantrip- that’s another three

that is 7 conditions.
fighting a necro-
unless you panic and seeing as how you have a problem with conditions in the first place, you will, you are going to blow ether renewal and heal into the necro so you can switch into fire to do damage.
Your are going to run into his marks
then get fear chained
then take a bunch of bleeding

At that point, going into water isnt going to save you
because you got outplayed
You panicked and blew all of your condition removal
You decided that you needed to do damage instead of CC and control the fight
You ran into necro marks and red circles.

Secondly if they hit you with chill immediately after you get out of water and you blow all of your condi removal-
chances are switching attunements is not going to save you from the mother load of conditions they are going to throw on you because you panic’d

you got outplayed.
That’s the scenerio you just gave me.

When you blow all of your condition removal at once and dont anticipate the " hey he just switched to staff" then that is your own fault you just got fear ping ponged into oblivion.

chill wont matter when you get filled with conditions.
It’s right up there with saying immobilize killed you because they applied it when you blew all of your condi removal at once and sat in red circles

You take the tools that you need and you use them when you need them.

2 stacks of bleeding isnt bad- 9 stacks is
Why would you blow your removal on 2 stacks?

Your heal removes conditions per pulse-
Why are you blowing it on an auto attack.

This necromancer is in death shroud
why are you sitting in fire instead of lightning with shocking aura up?

Go watch the ToL-
that ele knew what he was doing, you need to take a page from his book and ask people for his build

Velektrian.5491:

Either way, It is either the Warrior who is too OP V Chill (but with dogged march, Cleansing Ire, Melandru and Lemongrass LOL) or an Elementalist who gets royally screwed and completely HARD COUNTERED by one condition. There should be no Hard counters in this game. Hard counters take the fun away, soft counters are fine.

But an ele doesnt get hard countered by this..

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them.

Also I love how you list things like lemon grass and melandru like they are warrior exclusive.

Outside of cleansing Ire, and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

Why not just remove all food from any pvp scenerio. Like it is in Spvp

I dont understand why you NEED food in WvW.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

Carighan.6758:

Oh, I understand that even the gravest of imbalances are usually in the area of tilting combat by 10% at best, and usually less (since most are decided by circumstances like initiative, surprise and CDs).

But given those constraints, Mesmers are rarely a good choice for your team. Sure, you won’t feel bad playing as a Mesmer. But if you want to get organized, you need to know the limitations a Mesmer imposes on your strategy, unless it is to hunt the highwaymen in WvW. Because that is something we do better than anyone else. The same can ofc work in sPvP, especially hotjoin, as players often play highwayman-like specs or try them out.

I don’t really see a higher skill cap, though. Sorry. Your point would be that at a normal level of play, we actually perform better. That wouldn’t be indicative of an easier class, the average player can perform really well with it compared to other players.

Rather, I think this is what happens:

1. At low levels of play, players genuinely get confused by our “trickery”. By what is supposed to be our class mechanic. This makes Mesmers very strong, or rather, the enemy really weak because they waste so much time and skills on clones, on the wrong moments or get confused by things like Moa Morph having different abilities.
2. At medium levels of play, players have learned to see through our illusions, and have improved with their classes. As a result of Mesmers being quite difficult to play well (compared to say, Guardians), Mesmers slightly fall behind at this point.
3. At highest levels of play, Mesmers are still behind by that small margin of their class design being useless. However at this level this actually starts to be a real problem as the teams and groups will optimize and cut every corner.

I have been practically rubbing my face on a Mesmer hitting tab and its targeting his clones behind me……………. if I go to the trouble of clicking a dodging teleporting target with a practically invisible cursor then they just trolololol stealth and it starts all over again there is an issue with targeting mesmers -.-

…..

1. At low levels of play, players genuinely get confused by our “trickery”. By what is supposed to be our class mechanic. This makes Mesmers very strong, or rather, the enemy really weak because they waste so much time and skills on clones, on the wrong moments or get confused by things like Moa Morph having different abilities.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Solori.6025:

Inscrutable.8347:

Actually condis were snapped over the knee of the strongest support comp against them that I’ve ever seen

wait wait…
I’m sorry I dont understand you..are you saying a condi comp lost?!

It almost seems like everyone was anticipating condis and made really resilient bunker builds so half the teams ended up coming to the dance wearing the same dress. That or like in the EU tourney nobody wanted to mess around with their comp too much. I’m sure there’s still some as-of-yet undiscovered super OP combination that we’ll have to deal with for the next 6 months.

So they lost…

Inscrutable.8347:

Actually condis were snapped over the knee of the strongest support comp against them that I’ve ever seen

wait wait…
I’m sorry I dont understand you..are you saying a condi comp lost?!

So were can I watch the NA ToL?

Was this tournament pure Condi’s like people in the other subsection predicted?

Brando.1374:

the real skill is learning how to counter them instead of complaining and creating duplicate topics.

Are you actually suggesting people play the game and get better?

How dare you sir!!

Swish.2463:

Moa is good all the time in PvP

Link me a competitive build that would be better off using moa vs mass invis.

Dee Jay.2460:

I just wanted to point out just how poorly designed Black Powder specifically and Blind spam in general is balanced in this game.

Blind essentially negates a hit that would otherwise be a successful attack. It wastes the cooldown and is in all cases a very powerful mitigation mechanic. It is something that could be applies every 10-20 seconds in a balanced environment, but it can’t be something that is spammed non stop.

It’s especially problematic when combined with Thieves because you need a successful attack in order to clear the blind effect. And hitting a stealthed target is a matter of luck. Classes that rely almost exclusively on physical melee damage have virtually NO WAY of ever hitting a semi-competent Thief who uses Black Powder and Shadow Shot in a sensible manner. Nada.

Berserker Stance gives you 8 seconds of condition immunity and thus a break from the constant blind spa. But those 8 seconds are easy enough to kite/stealth for any Thief, and then it’s back to immunity.

I have both a Thief and a Warrior and I’ve been on both ends of this battle a number of times. Frankly I can’t think of many other abilities that are such a hard-counter to an entire class. If I’m smart enough to avoid Berserker Stance I am virtually immune to any Warrior melee build. It’s really quite a joke.

Blind was conceived….and should be, a situational condition. It should not be something that can be spammed and reapplied every few seconds, especially not by a class that gives you no opportunity to cleanse it.

Cleansing Ire..

Longbow

berserker stance.

You have too many ways to deal with blind, as a warrior
If a thief were to try this with me I would use zerk stance and hit him while being immune..
It is really amazing how much damage a warrior can dish out in 8 seconds.

Even when that stance is up, you can remove blind ( and conditions for that matter) faster than any other class in game right now because of 1 trait.

But for the sake of pistol off hand.
because I already dislike thieves.
Why I wouldnt mind blinding powder being a dark field that pulsed every 3 seconds

instant uselessness and balance..

what do you think guys?

Paavotar.3971:

Stacking duration of Immobilization is a real problem. There is couple fixes suggested for this one, it’s either make immob break with stun breaks or revert it back to the old one. This way you couldn’t stack insanely long immob durations to someone and people had more ways to break out of immob.

There isn’t a problem with immobilize as it is minus the fact it isn’t prioritized over other conditions.
On the other hand, if you get crippled or chilled what’s so different from being chain immobilized * especially* when there are more attacks that can stack the two?

Then there is stuns. While I think it’s a bit ridiculous that one can be played ping pong till he is dead. I suppose a nice change here would be that if you have been hard CC (stun, daze, knock-down, knock-back) you can’t be hard CC for the duration of the last one. This way you can’t chain stun with warrior hammer for example, at least not as easy.

We already in this thread listed what you can do to counter stuns
But no one has answered the question of
“Why should you shrug it off and live when you fight multiple people?”
If you fight two+ coordinated people what makes you so special that you should be privileged to win that encounter with no difficulty?

BUT, if they did change that they would need to change other stuff as well like how many stun breakers there is in this game and other skills that can be used while stunned (blinks and so on). There is plenty of tools to avoid being chain stunned if you keep your head cool, sometimes it can overwhelm you and there is not much to do but most professions have a good set of tools to break stun or teleport away from the next stun.

So if we have the tools available what needs to change then?
I dont understand..
If you have counter’s to CC
What needs to change if the ability to negate them already exist?

P.S.
Everyone is aware
Stuns don’t stack in intensity

If I recall correctly the last stun you encounter overwrites the previous application…

Sons.5493:

Ssenkra Bloodroot.1028:

IF you are getting hit by more than one person…
Well…explain to me why you should just shrug it off and live?

Not shrug it off and live, that’s not the situation but making additional CC reset the timer is just a bad unfun mechanic.

If CC is coming from one source it isnt that big of a deal
any of the listed counter’s in this thread will take care of that situation.
On the other hand.
If you are fighting people in a X v 1
coordinated chill,cripple, or immobilize will also pretty much keep you in place for pain.
Difference in stun and daze is that you can blind them before the skill lands, use stability, or get out of range assuming you aren’t fighting a mesmer or ranger ( and even then those two have a decently long CD on their stun’s and dazes)

I know it’s unfun to play when you are unable to move, but pretty much all classes have some way to negate the effects of a stun and its re-application( dodges,blinds, a stun of your own, food, runes, range, invul, evasion, and stability)

But when you talk about being in front of a zerg train, nothing but invul is going to save you from being killed.

So, the question still is, why do you think you should shrug it off and live vs multiple people?

Kolisch.4691:

Maskaganda.2043:

Moa me and I’ll peck you to death!

True, everytime I meet any inexperienced Mesmer that Moas me as a fight starts, I proceed to just auto-atk them to death… this one happened a few days ago.

That is the best feeling when you peck a mesmer to death.

What I think the problem is, is that people die from moa morph when they are 30% or less in health, then blame it on moa morph.
I think people want to use that skill as a scapegoat for their own lack of skill/ them getting outplayed.

Ssenkra Bloodroot.1028:

Out of curiosity did you ever play the origional Guildwars?

I’m aware of how devistating stacked CC can be, but honestly having (quite literally) grown up on Guildwars it’s not that big an issue to me as I’m use to cripples that last for multitudes of seconds, and knockdowns that are 4 or 5 seconds long. Honestly I’m very greatful just to have skills that are flat out dedicated to getting you out of CC. (most of these skills even remove multiple instances of it)

Now as a suggestion as to avoid preaching to the choir, Anet could introduce talents that shorten the time of break stuns, and/or CC. (needless to say these would stack with other talents that shorten cooldowns; it would be pointless otherwise) The problem is, there’s a very, VERY fine line between CC being too powerful, and CC not doing it’s job.

well..
IF you are having a problem with CC
just reduce the stun duration or damage recieved

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Roasted_Lotus_Root
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Melandru
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roasted_Parsnip
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loaf_of_Saffron_Bread

IF you are getting hit by more than one person…
Well…explain to me why you should just shrug it off and live?

Chokolata.1870:

Why does minionmancer actualy exist as a viable build. I thought the BM ranger was considered a crutch build but this is no brainness taken to another level. Jesus

Jesus..there is your answer.

Ision.3207:

Burnfall.9573:

Valid post Op.

I had a interesting experience in wvw yesterday, here goes…

I didn’t know i was being chased by an enemy thief until i was 2 shotted down by 13k heartseeker+13k backstab.

As always, i surrendered my body: without putting up a fight and waited for my death: seriously, what’s the point of trying once they go into stealth?

Than the enemy female thief proceeded to stand on top of my body and laughed, mocked me.

10 seconds remaining seconds left before the the shadows of death embrace me; the enemy thief chatted with me and told me how i was brave and humble. She permitted me to regain my health, so i did with caution.

Once i regain health: i hid my pet: in sign of non-aggressiveness and was left in shock.

I thanked the enemy female thief for giving me a 2nd chance, she smiled and teleported away.

We continued to chat and discussed how ridiculous stealth and the stealth downing system is, including many other things.

She than encourage me to join her server and her guild with one exception; “delete ranger class (laughs) and play thief class” .

She said if i consider, she and her guild of 2,000 members, will train me to be a Killer Assassin thief.

So there..

Even an enemy thief player sees something wrong with this ub-fair, un-just and un-balanced mechanic and class (why not?).

How is this called “Balance”?

How is this not a Problem?

It give UnFair advantage to Stealth class/s while Punishing Non-Stealth Classes ,

Eliminated this mechanic once and for the sake of the Gods: rework/redesign the broken thief class

" It’s a new day, Yesterday’s failure is redeemed at the sunrise”

Redeem The Thief Class!!

once and for all!

Burnfall !!!

That was a wonderful piece of fiction!

Of course I know its loosely based on the truth, especially the part when you get downed easily and die.

HAHAHAHA This has made my day.
thank you sir

Carighan.6758:

Xahz.8406:

That’s odd, because Mesmers found their way onto almost every team in the ToL, including both of the teams that made it into the finals.

Last I saw stats they were the least-picked class, and with a noticeable margin. :o

You are correct.
If the mesmer was so useful then why this.

EverythingEnds.4261:

EverythingEnds.4261:

So, I’m watching the Tournament of Legends atm, my impressions are:

Guardian is in every team (ofc)
Engi is also extremly popular.

Almost no team without a Warrior did win.
Almost no team with a Mesmer won.

Lets put some misconceptions to rest, i just finished going through the EU ToL.

First off, Guardians are not in every team. Two games a team did not have a single Guardian. They got destroyed both those games however.

Secondly, Engineer is not extremely popular. Infact its the 2nd least popular profession. Only Mesmer was played less then Engineer.

Third, Warriors not being in a team didnt lead to a big deviation in wins or losses.
8x a team did not pick a Warrior, and 5x that team lost. Its there, but not a massive swing.

Fourth, Mesmers didnt lead to an big swing in losing matches. 9x did a Team play with a Mesmer against a team with no Mesmer. In 5 of those games the team with the Mesmer won.
If anything, statistically speaking, Mesmer have a better “winning edge” then Warriors.

There were 19 games. With 10 player slots per game (5 per team) that means we have a total have 190 classes picked. If we see all profession picked evenly, we’d see 23,75 for every single profession.
Use this number as a gauge, picked more then 23.75x means the profession is over-represented. Less and its underrepresented.

Now for the popular professions:

1# Guardians
There have been 19 matches, and we’ve seen 40 Guardian picks. That average out at more then 1 Guardian per team. And indeed several times we’ve seen 2 guardian picks.
Only twice did we see a game where one team did not have a Guardian, this team lost both games by a significant margin.

2# Warriors
Almost as popular as Guardians, we’ve seen 37 Warrior picks through all the games. Thats just under the 1 warrior, per game, per team average. Sometimes Warriors didnt get picked, sometimes picked twice in a team. A lot of Hambows btw, a lot.

3# Thieves
A thief was picked 26x. Making it the 3th most played profession upto this point.

4# Rangers
Maybe it will surprise some people, because a lot of people are convinced that rangers are garbage. But it was actually picked 21x, barely beating out Necro in popularity.

5# Necromancers
A close follow up to Rangers, it was picked 20x.

6# Elementalists
Ele’s got picked 18x total through the ToL so far. Making them one of the least popular professions.

7# Engineers
Despite what people seem to think, not a popular profession so far at all. Picked a meager 15x it is the second least favorite pick.

8# Mesmers
Picked an underwhelming 13x. Despite seemingly not contributed to an increase in team losses, its obviously the least picked profession upto this point.

explain to me why mesmer was picked so few times by people that actually pvp in the higher tiers? and is OP
BUT GUARDIAN AND WARRIOR JUST FLOAT ON BY AND NO ONE BATS AN EYE

To add to that Every team that DID NOT HAVE A GUARDIAN LOST.

Oidmetala.8426:

this rune is for sure to strong atm

nearly every power profession run it.
and it makes nearly all power professions much stronger then they should be at the moment.

warriors run strengh runes
mesmers run strengh runes
eles run strengh runes
some thiefs run strengh runes

this 4 professions run around with ~20 perma might and just kill everything

so there is of course no condi meta atm
we have a power meta

remember when people ran divinity, mel, and lyssa runes..

zHasgard.9827:

Hi , my name is Fred and I play MMORPG with over 6 years , I joined the guild wars 2 last year that I found very beautiful game and the pvp system made me so happy , I had never seen a pvp thus played Perfect World , wow , aion , everquest and tibia … throughout this journey with the online games I’ve played with all classes of these games , I know this is a forum for Guild Wars 2 and should not be commenting on other games , but wanted to highlight one thing in all these games , none of them there is a class that does what other fazem.Estou speaking warriors in GW2 , I play guardian , the guardian started because I thought he was the character who held more damage in the game , guardian is a very cool and beautiful class, but we guardians could only do one thing at a time , or we use build tank or we use zerk build , with a guardian zerk we took 15khp + – warriors with build zerk can build tank with zerk , they have a lot of life and a very good kit burst damage , they have mov.speed , they can ignore attacks by a lONG period of time , may use different types of weapons and get along with everybody, any it is feasible to build a rifle , ax , greatsword , hammer , hammer mostly , they hold the hammer like a toy, very fast attack … they can escape from it all with his mobility , and so much more that I will not talk here…Why warrior are soo ridiculous and overpower in this game?? I REALLY DON’T KNOW WHY.It makes no sense you create a class that beats all others, and that makes all the others do so better, it makes sense you do 0 damage on warrior, it makes sense to raise it after you die, it does not make sense hold the hammer like a toy, it makes sense to take it with a tank build 31khp.No fun in playing a game where one thing destroys anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMfP6H-4dpI

……..

I want someone to translate this please….

BurrTheKing.8571:

Solori.6025:

Wait..are you telling me the team that won was not a full condition team?!

#condispamisOPamirit?
#datguarddoe

Note that most of the teams were running what was basically an updated version of last patches meta while the winning team ran a comp that was really strong against it. Most apparently wanted to play it safe and it didn’t pay off.

So what you are saying is condispam teams have a counter and the winning team basically did that and won?

Wait..are you telling me the team that won was not a full condition team?!

#condispamisOPamirit?
#datguarddoe

DrakoRoma.4167:

I hate to point it out, but this question tends to lead to a popularity contest. I don’t just mean here, in the GW2 Forums, but in general life.
Honestly, I don’t see a point in asking. Everyone has different criteria, and that changes their answer. If everyone states what their criteria is along with their answer, it would at least be worth reading the responses.

As for my answer, I honestly have none. I just meet a lot of random people.

The best guardian is Jesus..

can i get a amen

I would also like the OP to point out how often a mesmer and this elite skill was used in the ToL for EU

Przemek Pro.1309:

its also kina OP in 1v1

moa on u = u are dead

thats all

If you are a noob..yes..

Then again, anything will kill you ..

I think people hate us more because it’s easier for the common pve’er to become overwhelmed and confused without actually denting the real mesmer.

For a veteran player or someone that actually understands how to fight a mesmer. it isnt so hard for them.

So this becomes a
In hotjoin spvp, you faceroll newbs
In Tpvp, you are overshadowed by classes that can do what ever role you choose better ( portal aside)

This is pretty much the problem.
You dont see good teams with a lot of mesmer’s
You do see warriors,engies,thieves, necro’s, and guardians a lot though.

Roe.3679:

It doesn’t sound bad to me, just a different strategy if the poison is what they are really after. It certainly doesn’t sound ideal to me though, let alone cheese.

They already have access to poison in a backstab build.
Hell they even have utilities that add poison

This is just a bad combo, and someone died to this horrible combo.
I dont know which one is worse honestly

lordhelmos.7623:

Rune of krait basilisk spiking from stealth requires a stunbreaker, condition clear, and heal (if backstabbed) to counter. Unless your a psychic and can dodge stealthed attacks.

Sometimes, this is the best response to the things I see on this forum

http://youtu.be/uq-v1TTUyhM

K U T M.4539:

Solori.6025:

K U T M.4539:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

When they use hard cc on someone who’s already been hard cc’d, it overwrites it. When you immob someone who’s already been immob’d, it stacks.

Thank you for stating what has been mentioned already.

That still does not answer the question.

And I am still waiting on that list of spammable immobilizes outside of thief.

For example.
If I am in a 2 v 1 vs two burst thieves and one basalisk venoms me, then the other thief does the same thing when it wears off
Does basalisk venom become unskillful?
If I am chain dazed and stunned by two warriors, does stun become skill-less?

If I get shatter bursted by two mesmers
Does shatter become unskillfull?

If I get perma fear pingponged between two necromancer’s
Does fear become unskillfull?

Why are we even talking about 2 v 1 or 1 vs multiple anyway?

Spammable immobs:

Thief, ele, ranger, warrior, engineer.

The difference between those stun chains and the immob stacking is that they had to wait until the other persons cc was over to get the maximum effect. With immob stacking, you don’t have to wait.

you forgot mesmer, guardian,and necro.

You still havent provided me with a list of “spammable” immobilizes outside of what I provided with the thief.

Do you know what spammable means in the gaming world?

Naming classes that have access to an immobilize isn’t helping your case
Secondly
If a group of people chain immobilize you every one of their immobilizes can be removed with 1 condition clear vs if I am chained stunned unless I am one of the two classes that has easy access to stability, I am chained there unable to defend myself at all.
Can we use this argument for immobilize sure..difference being
When I am immobilized I can still dodge, evade, or use skills that give me the effects of to mitigate the damage I am receiving and letting me live those 5 seconds longer.

Also you haven’t addressed why chill and cripple are not any worse than immobilize

shimmerless.4560:

The “spamming” accusation probably comes from the fact that many of these immobilizes are passive and often unintentional. You can be held in place for 5+ seconds just from a Supply Crate turret

Supply crate is an elite-
Are you saying that the now nerfed net turrent is still to strong?
Or that the rifle net is too fast to dodge?

and a Ranger’s unattended pet, for example.

The ranger’s pet will only ever get a 5+ second immobilize if you time muddy terrain, it’s A2 attack, AND its F2 attack at pretty much the same time..Or the ranger will use an Elite skill
Now let’s say the ranger doesnt use an elite skill. If a ranger has that much micro management skill and spacial awareness are you saying that it he shouldn’t be rewarded for it.

I would also ask * What happened to your condi cleanse*

Throw in more pseudo-AoEs like Guardian and Warrior (traited) hammer and it just becomes a mess.

Are we talking again 1 v X or focus firing, because this still leads to the arguement of
A) why should you be privaleged to live through focus fire
B) What other condition or CC that limits your mobility wouldn’t do this, and why is immobilize sooo much worse.

You could say that the immobilization in a group is much more frequent but that would be false.
Especially when cripple and chill/ Daze and stun are available in MANY more forms.

I wouldn’t like to see these skills themselves be changed, the Ranger pet’s immobilize is its thing and it shouldn’t be taken away. What has to go is either immobilize-stacking (which rewards poor timing) or a change in cleanse priority. It was already a powerful condition anyway and it didn’t need the extra help.

So the immobilize should go before the cripple and chill?

Sure.
Tell me how much further you get from the group that is chasing you and bursting you down

musu.9205:

also this can happen when just 3v3 or even 5v5 . Focus on necros , stack stun stack immobilize if he does a lucky dodge your group memeber will die first and you lose.
On the other hand if you are real coordination team then limit it to one stack that shouldn’t be a problem with your coordination .
This game right now is so spamming ,either anet takes much more effort to rework a lot of stuff or simply limit those ability .Everyone would suggest easy way because they can hope that happens.

Wait, so is your problem with coordinated group play?

I mean, if you dont like being focused roll a thief and run away in stealth.

On that same note

Thank you for stating what has been mentioned already.

That still does not answer the question.

And I am still waiting on that list of spammable immobilizes outside of thief.

For example.
If I am in a 2 v 1 vs two burst thieves and one basalisk venoms me, then the other thief does the same thing when it wears off
Does basalisk venom become unskillful?
If I am chain dazed and stunned by two warriors, does stun become skill-less?

If I get shatter bursted by two mesmers
Does shatter become unskillfull?

If I get perma fear pingponged between two necromancer’s
Does fear become unskillfull?

Can you answer how that is different from people focusing you with other stun skills or other CC skills or chill and cripple?

If you get focused you die.
Now if you want to change the nature of that then please target the entire damage mechanic because that seems to me what you have a problem with.

You have done nothing to explain why and how immobilize is “spamming”
You have done nothing to explain or refute why immobilize is worse than any of the other skills above
and now you need to explain why it’s bad for a group to coordinate and burst a target and why skills like chill, daze,knockback, cripple, knockdown, and stun are sooooo much better than immobilize, and why immobilize needs to be nerfed because all of those skill’s wont guarantee you die vs focus fire apparently.

Pride.1734:

Wait for the cooldown. Get interrupted, if you arent already dead when cd is back on. Its not like they can be insta casted like mesmer clones. Honestly its extremely bad that they counter the entire class with 1 friggin skill.
And its not like Mesmers rly get counterd by anything. Betcha you win most of your 1v1’s against necros as well even though you dont steamroll them.

Are we talking Spvp or WvW?

Prysin.8542:

Rangers stacks immob so fast, so easily that you get screwed by it.

Entangle = 14x 1 second. 1 sec immob/pulse/second
Muddy terrain (on creation) – 3 seconds
Krytan Drakehound F2 Howl – 3 seconds
Spider (AI skill) – 3 seconds
Spider (F2 skill) – 3 seconds

then there is thief;
Devourer Venom – 2x 2 seconds (3x if traited)

So we have the ranger elite-150sec
A jungle spider pet f2-40sec
A Hound f2-20 sec

and muddy terrain-25sec

All of those are spammable?

On the thief?
Why would you take a Devourer venom ( on a 45sec CD) over another-more useful utility.

Unless you plan on running in a group to share venom.
Then the argument is still 1 v X
And you would need to explain why you feel your class needs to have an advantage/ be privileged to win 1 v X