Guild Wars 2

Anton.1769:

IE will change almost nothing at shatter build. Illusions are generated and shattered as soon as possible

actually it will

During the time when your most damaging shatters are spent IF the target is still alive, staff clones with there added bounce for damaging conditions will allow for constant pressure AND added vulnerability to the target resulting in a larger shatter numbers when everything is recharged.

Staff is also a great utility weapon.

phokus.8934:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

For staff clones inheriting Illusionary Elasticity, I think people are less concerned about that because they figure that’s the way it always should have worked and this is more of a bug fix than a genuine buff.

people are not concerned about IE because they are uneducasted in the buff and what exactly it means for condition and power builds.

The only thing these sheep’s see is scepter going from utter garbage to a semi-decent condition weapon. Couple that with PU and people overlook the more serious buff to mesmer condi/power dps.

sheeple didnt notice it because helselth “forgot” to mention how much it buffs his power build, drawing hate to the mesmer scepter and letting the people that have no clue follow his blind crusade.

Come patch day.
People will complain about scepter, being hard to deal with in an unsupported aspect of the game, while power builds rule everything else.

IE will go about the ways of the guardian. Unnoticed because of the mass amount of brainless followers

staff/gs or staff//sw/X shatterbuild. prepare ur kitten

vincecontix.1264:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Beraval.6148:

No. Adding torment to the scepter auto attack would create a spec that requires little to no skill that can easily 1v1 any class. Even managing your cooldowns would not be necessary since a majority of you damage would be on your autoattack, even clones can be spawned using the autoattack. My fear is the new pvp Mesmer meta will be a build with a bunch of passive defensive abilities and will require no skill.

I feel that the scepter does need a buff however and to make the scepter less overpowered the torment should only be added to the final strike in the autoattack chain.

“..creates build of little skill…”
This build already exists. It is called;
1) spirit ranger
2) celestial scepter/dagger ele
3) any warrior build, take your pick
4)HGH nade engi
5)black smoke d/p thief
6)beast master ranger
7)minionmancer
8) terrormancer
9) turret engineer

Oscar Wilde once said, “It is not selfish to live how you want to live. It is only selfish to expect others to live how you want them to live.” If you want to play mantra’s, or shatter, no one is stopping you. Just because something good happen to scepter, it takes nothing away from anything else. The world doesn’t need another person who complains about what is on TV, but refuses to change the channel. Everybody seems to viewing this buff as Pvp specific and also complain conditions are weak in PvE. PvP in this game is small, PvE has the far greater population. This is the condition style PvE players have been demanding. They got it. Majority rules. It still doesn’t stop any other mesmer playing how they want in any other game mode.

Except PU condition memser is more faceroll than just about everything you listed with about highest survivability of any spec..

O that’s rights

Because mesmer was one of the most picked classes in the latest ToL

..o wait….

Yes.

People keep forgetting that scepter is a horribad weapon and that their are other specs that use scepter, that dont go into PU.

If PU is a problem fix the trait. ( remove Aegis)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Clones, dude. Once they’re up, they’re as passive as you can get.

cyyrix.6105:

It’s crazy that people are so concerned about the scepter buff…look at the base damage numbers:

• Per strike, the scepter AA buff will provide between 64-96 extra damage, depending on if the target is moving
• Per strike, the Illusionary Elasticity buff will provide (on average) an extra 209 damage plus 1.67s of vulnerability.

That is to say, the IE buff to Winds of Chaos will do 118% – 227% MORE damage than the scepter buff, depending on if the target is moving.

Yes, IE is a master trait, but many builds with staff are already spec’d into it, so there’s really no cost in picking up either buff.

(Math for Winds of Chaos: 0.33*328 (1s burn) + 0.33*298 (7s bleed) = 209 + 5s/3 vuln = 1.67s vuln)

Scepter buff is fine.

Staff clones still win out

Nano.3706:

You say, that Condi Meta is NOT out of control in different aspects of the game?
(non-blobbing-wvw)

The only place a condi meta exist. Is in WvW roaming.

Condi’s are useless in dungeons over a power build
They aren’t run in Tpvp
and in Zergs they are cleansed as soon as they are applied.

So…
What’s the problem if this only works in one NON SUPPORTED aspect that the players came up with in game?

deda.8302:

Oh and don’t forget that scepter mesmer can hit highest cond.dmg stat in game i think if not highest then second best…

@Zenith.7301
“Pretty much also the reason condi ele hasn’t existed, because when condi application is cooldown based it can’t possibly keep up with the current state of cleanses and burst.”

Condi ele didnt exist cause Ele can apply 2 (two) damaging conditions burn and bleed and thats it,your reasoning fails here…

But you did pretty much hit the nail with that remark, scepter/torch will now be able to apply all conditions and in pretty high stacks with just one weapon set with right sigils,
and if u add retaliation which mesmers don’t have to look far to get even boons are working for condi memser just blocking and auto attacking,lol

here it took me 10 min to make this ,it will punish you for anything you do while i can apply ALL condition on you in few sec:)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlsnpBtlqxRNMrRiuhYqHnsVM0O8W5CA-TpRGwAAeAAG3foZZA0HCgAnAACHBAA

I’m not going to get into how bad this build is.
When you make a build, and you claim something is going to be powerful, make a build that
A) works
and
B) shows why its going to be powerful

So far, in the supported game mode which is team pvp

I have not seen a PU build that works, while being effective in the supported game modes presented in this game.

Unless someone would like to post statistics which prove the effectiveness of a condi-PU mesmer outside of 1v1’s?

Dirame.8521:

Linnael.1069:

Will scepter mesmer be even a mildly acceptable PvE condition build? No.

Torment does a crap ton of damage. Being one of the only classes that can stack a large amount of it, it will be more than welcome in PvE.

when compared to bleed stacking, no, it doesnt.

coglin.1867:

Loki.2894:

Any other class that has immunity to damage cannot have capture point contribution, but warrior can do just that with endure pain+berserker stance. (ele mist form, engi elixir S, thief stealth, mesmer stealth) to name a few

You make a fair point here. Come to think of it, I have no access to ant weapons skills, elites, heals, or other utility, when using an immunity on those professions either. That does seem to be congruent among every profession except the warrior, which seems a bit unfairly unequal.

Warrior has to blow 2 cooldowns for damage immunity, rendering them pretty useless for the next 60 seconds vs a well played condi class, say an engineer.
Secondly, mesmer can also get get full damage immunity using weapon skills and a class mechanic.

And lastly, how is the warrior going to deal with an engineer or necro that plays smart and reloads them with conditions and CC when their stances end.
Because again, its really not easy hitting ES vs a good opponent.
and are we considering the new fact that warriors WILL lose all adrenaline when they A) exit combat and
B) miss a burst skill

Loki.2894:

The adrenaline nerf is not going to be huge. Longbow is fastest adrenaline generator and doesnt need a target to clear 3 conditions, theres just going to be a lot more lb camping (on a 5 second weaponswap i might add).

You dont lose adrenaline unless you leave combat, and earthshaker is pretty hard to miss as it is. The only thing it affects is eviscerate.

Signet, hammer and burst on longbow is still OP nerf it more.

another thing to add the above list is a 5 second weaponswap – WHY?? give it to all classes

If you are in hotjoin fighting new players then yes
ES is really easy to land, because people don’t know any better.

If you are argueing that you can land a reliable ES when its a X v 1

Yes, any class can be downed when they are fighting X v 1

This nerf to adrenaline is going to effect every spamtastic warrior who didn’t bother to learn the profession thoroughly, and by thoroughly i mean learning to bait dodges, cooldowns, etc.

They are getting nerfs and buffs next patch, and really if you are playing a thief. You have the most rewarding braindead spec in the game right now and its only going to get worse next patch because you can evade and stealth at a whim.

Carighan.6758:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The strength of Scepter clones is their sheer quantity. That’s enough of a strength.

Yes, the auto attack on Mesmer Scepter needs a buff. The clones from it, however, do not.

Hrm, yeah, kinda.
The clones were supposed to be intentionally the weakest of all clones (only surpassed in rubbishness by the PMage) due to being “more”. As in, this is the shatter-fodder weapon.

Only due to just how terrible the AA-chain is (and still will be), that never materialized. It seems they’re just dropped the idea now and making it a condi weapon like Necro scepter or so.

Mind you, I think the weapon is still kinda meh. Sure, if I go 100% full condi I might get a use out of it, but that means I just made a 1v1 character. Good to punish those roaming thieves and warriors, but Blackwater already does that. And just like that, it’ll be ~useless for winning anything, as conditions are pointless in larger fights or in PvE. Independent of how you put them up.

This pretty much.

Hambow + 1 is still going to render this mesmer useless in tpvp

Engineer is still going to render this useless in Tpvp

Bunker guard is still going to render this useless in tpvp.

Conditions on a mesmer, in a game mode that supports teamwork is still going to fall short vs a character that can hold a point and stay alive without going into stealth every 15 seconds.

Lets not forget also that we have yet to see the necro buffs.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Plok.5873:

Jagstang, you just ran into the reason for satire’s & cabaret’s general typical decline.

No matter how vitriolic, grotesque and hyperbolic your persiflage might be, reality keeps overtaking you left and right. So either it’s just not funny anymore or it blends in with the other absurdity and is taken for real.

Wag the dog, someone?

All attempts he was making to be even remotely serious were thrown out the window when he said he’s been playing since 2010.

It’s a joke.

…IT WAS A JOKE FROM THE FIRST POST.

This plane flew so far over peoples heads it makes me wonder how and why I have some grain of hope in humanity.

It’s like every English class in the US simultaneously decided to skip the chapter about the Satire of Edgar Allan Poe

Ithilwen.1529:

Learn 2 play, no play a real class that can actually be beaten on a level playing field. Wars are disgustingly overpowered, the fastest players on the field and have superior heal. anet might as well just give them a “win” button. Besides that, every class that can beat them gets nerfed.

I own a two mesmers.
Have been playing since BW1

And have no trouble with warriors.

Sometimes I get outplayed from me dodging something stupid.
But most of the time I completely roll over warriors.

Why not go make a warrior. Go find a good mesmer.

And duel it.

Ithilwen.1529:

The warrior trolls keep trying to take it off point. Warriors are far too favored. Rangers can easily wreck me before I can get into attack range if their multiple pets don’t get me first.. gods I wish Illusions worked that well.

Please stop trolling people..

They actually think you are serious.

8/10 troll though
I do enjoy reading peoples “WTHL2P” when it’s clearly a topic made to troll some forums warriors

Bhawb.7408:

Yeah, we all know Dhuumfire was nerfed because all those PvE mobs were complaining about the burning. Corrupt Boon definitely took the hit because it was just destroying mobs. Terror? Had to be nerfed so we couldn’t chain fear those poor AIs.

Do you all actually think when you post this crap? Or does it just kind of dribble-out?

Oh Oh..
You forgot the
Porting with FGS
The nerf to Portal LoS
The nerf to mesmer trait Deceptive Evasion
The nerf to mesmer clones
The nerf to warrior healing signet
The nerf to crit damage
The nerf to Thief off-hand dagger
The nerf to blind spam
The nerf to Guardian spirit weapons

Because none of those had anything to do with the game in general.

I mean Spirit weapon guardians were soooooooo OP in Pvp until they were nerfed.
Oh and dont even get me started on the nerf to ranger pets across the board.
Because everyone in PvP ran ranger then too.

Yes.
Those were all pvp nerfs.

They even made pvp better .
/s

Point 2.
What in PvE is challenging that any change to this game is going to effect the zerk speed clear meta?

NOTHING

I mean seriously?
Condi necro?
What does it even do for groups when they have a warrior,guardian, and a ele?

I mean please tell me what content available right now punishes people with zerk?

They already tried with the change to crit damage.
We all know how challenging the content got all of a sudden.

Point 3
The changes to thief wont really effect skilled thieves- it only effects the thief blind spam in a corner.
The change to warrior will effect everyone who spammed moves. I mean, we all know how OP greatsword is in pvp right?
I mean no one is running hambow anymore.

And offhand Axe was exclusively a pvp change. Because no one ran with a shield.
And Condi warriors in PvE really really needed that torment.
Because warriors actually run condi for dungeons in this game

Such hard content
Much change

So…..the balance between Spvp is usually seperated from the rest of the game

( see thief reveal time and CnD damage)

If they wanted to balance the entire game from pvp..
They wouldn’t bother changing this system to be separate like it is.

It’s cute though that people still lean on the scape goat of “pvp got us nerfed”

The devs balanced the entire game according to the entire game.

Swish.2463:

Carighan.6758:

vincecontix.1264:

So wrong in wvw and duels pu condi or hybrid is almost unbeatable.

1v1 fights are explicitly not a supported form of PvP. If you fight it, you accept you cannot and should not expect any balance.

hold on, lemme go find those notes again from dulfy..

….

ah here we go, JUNE 13th

Mesmer: Misdirection, crowd control, utility. Brought in for utility all the way from GW1.

Weakness: Conditions are hard to deal with. Lack of AoE – good single target damage but weak at AoE situation. (A bit weaker than where we want to be. We don’t want to make it too strong as we want you to bring Eles for ranged AoE damage). Mobility – not a ton of mobility due to lack of swiftness but they do have a lot of teleports such as portals. Mesmer can get there and back with portals but can’t go too far forward due to lack of swiftness. Low defense against high burst damage – maybe some small tweaks.
Official design: Access to key utility skills. Gain defense through stealth, evasion, misdirection. Strong 1v1 ranged damage dealer but weaker in sustained AoE damage. Weakness – conditional removal, sustainability if illusions are countered, AoE damage make it hard to sustain illusions.

Mesmer, Balanced only for 1v1 combat, strong at 1v1 combat, weak at team combat and also weak at 1v1 combat.

1v1, is apparently a supported thing, just very very kittenly supported…. for only 1 maybe 2 if you count thief? classes..

..
O really..

Show me where I can queue up for this supported 1 v 1 game mode.

Don’t worry we will all be here take your time..

PowerBottom.5796:

Oh yeah: One of the “coolest” Parts of SWtOR PvP Gear-progression was it’s randomness.

It was completely luck-based if you got sth. useful out of Chests or not and I was the highest PvP-rank on my Server, but I had such incredibly bad luck, that I actually had the Gear of a newb.

I almost cried each time I’ve opened a chest… It was like a 20-30% chance to get sth. useful out of it and I opened about one hundred chests and got basically NOTHING. ^^’

OMFG where was I when this happened?

Deified.7520:

Solori.6025:

Deified.7520:

There’s too much selfish support in this game. The only time I ever see someone affected by a support skill is when another player uses it to do something for himself and his teammate getting support from it was just a bypass/something he didn’t think about.

Umm….You know this game was designed from Day 1 for every class to be self reliant right?

And the meta sure has flourished because of it, right? People consider PvE combat to be boring and zerker too strong. People complain about the meta for PvP being too “cheese”, boring, and none changing. There needs to be more teamwork or smaller numbers. 5 “self reliant” classes fighting isn’t entertaining at all to watch.

I wouldn’t say its because of a classes self reliance that the game has gone stale.

It’s really-
Poor balance between classes and the lack of clutch play.
Uninteresting maps because of a predictable game mode.
Lack of game mode variety and
Strict meta builds.

The combat itself is fine.
But if only 4 classes have a real place in a team setting

and all four classes only have 1-2 good builds to choose from.

It gets boring.
It gets predictable

Solution-
Fix the ducking traits/weapon bugs and open up build variety to different classes.

A Condi ele would be awesome to play, same as a condi guard.

A mesmer needs a lot of work because its of the most under-represented classes in the running ToL.

Rangers are laughed at.

Guardians are tired of hearing " In a good place"

Warriors are too afraid of nerfs and changes

Thieves want variety instead of relying on stealth to even function

Engineers are utility backpacks

and necro’s are the attrition class…WITH NO ATTRITION

Deified.7520:

There’s too much selfish support in this game. The only time I ever see someone affected by a support skill is when another player uses it to do something for himself and his teammate getting support from it was just a bypass/something he didn’t think about.

Umm….You know this game was designed from Day 1 for every class to be self reliant right?

Guiss..Guiss..Necro no OP

Engi beat Necro hands Down

Engi has stability spam and max rifle damage
And condi damage all in 1 build.
Engi can stealth and throw nades
Then Knock back with turretz

Engi has 1500 max range and a daze all in 1 build.

Engi > Necro

P.S.
Engi has too much invul needs nerf. Cant beat on my Zerk necro

Carighan.6758:

Yes ofc, but the point is that the Ele + Guardian + Warrior combination already covers everything. And they also provide the basis of any high-power combination of damage. They cover virtually all utility, a Mesmer only adding Veil and (very rarely since the culling change) Portal. Everything else can already be provided by a combination of three you want in all cases, anyhow.

Some groups also include thief in that setup because they also have a projectile destruction field
Blind fields
Great Single target DPS

and an abundance of party stealth which is great for running past trash mobs you dont want to deal with.

Even they have more of a guaranteed spot over a mes really.

Why do you have a vid from 2013?

And why was this dude complaining about a 3 v 1 with venom share?

Why did a necro let conditions stack on him like that?

Like… dont necro’s have some of the best condi clears around?

More importantly. Why do people think they should have an easy time in X v 1?

Saturn.6591:

Simonoly.4352:

Poor troll attempt. I much preferred your “Stances should Reveal Thieves and Mesmers” thread. That one was more….punchy

Hold on; that was this guy? Now I know why I thought I’ve seen this nickname before… yeah, that thread was quite hilarious as well.

I really do hope that he takes the serious replies in here and makes something out of them (like improving himself to become a better player).

psshh i don’t..

Who else will entertain me while I’m at work?

teef

/15 chars

runeblade.7514:

Solori.6025:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Aveneo.2068:

In WvW the Mesmer currently only has two uses:

1. Veilbot
2. Portalbot

That is the extent of their effectiveness in WvW.

Now if only phantasms weren’t nerfed back then into suddenly requiring LoS.

I’m glad you guys have some actual effectiveness in WvW, unlike Ranger which has 0 ability in a zerg. I have a feeling if they fixed all of the Mesmer’s bugs you guys would probably go up to the “in a good place tier” since some of the skills would be incredibly powerful without those bugs.

ummm..

Ranger has.

Waterfield

Blast finisher

Group might,swiftness,fury

AoE thats reliable

and a pet that can go with the front line to get you more tags.

…..But that’s none of my business..

Staff elementalists can do all that and better.

Pets dies 99% of the time, so their advantage is no better than an elementalist with no pet at all.

true…now lets compare the mesmer to ele in a zerg fight.

It’s actually worse off than the ranger.
It’s either veil bot + port or gtfo.

A ranger doesn’t have to run specific utilities or a specific build.
You have the option to run lowered cooldowns and have a pretty nice AoE from longbow.
And with the buffs to axe you will be bouncing them around with a perma 15 stacks of might.

Both classes need buffs.
Both classes need help ( like who takes a ranger into a dungeon over a warr or thief?)

But to say " O ranger is in a worse spot" then not have evidence to prove that. Then to be proven wrong. Then to continue saying ranger is worse then mesmer in EVERYTHING when it’s clear that in most game modes you are better off with more rangers vs mesmer’s

It’s a little silly.

Everyone needs buffs…

Except guardian

They are in a “good” place.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Aveneo.2068:

In WvW the Mesmer currently only has two uses:

1. Veilbot
2. Portalbot

That is the extent of their effectiveness in WvW.

Now if only phantasms weren’t nerfed back then into suddenly requiring LoS.

I’m glad you guys have some actual effectiveness in WvW, unlike Ranger which has 0 ability in a zerg. I have a feeling if they fixed all of the Mesmer’s bugs you guys would probably go up to the “in a good place tier” since some of the skills would be incredibly powerful without those bugs.

ummm..

Ranger has.

Waterfield

Blast finisher

Group might,swiftness,fury

AoE thats reliable

and a pet that can go with the front line to get you more tags.

…..But that’s none of my business..

Zacchary.6183:

xbutcherx.3861:

Zacchary.6183:

xbutcherx.3861:

Zacchary.6183:

McWolfy.5924:

If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab

Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)

Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0

Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25

Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)

Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.

just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.

Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?

I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, you play a thief so I will have to tell you to L2P before posting
Thanks
Also try to land all 3 warrior skill and then come here and let me know, oh wait you can’t because those are from 3 different weapons.
Rifle is very useless for hmm.. let’s see, EVERYTHING
Final Thrust always missed and it never crits and
Evicerate with 7 sec CD that you can dodge.

PLease let me know if you can dodge BACKSTAB!

That’s real cool that you have lvl 80 thief. Try having one for almost 2 years with a lvl 80 war, guard and mesmer on the side. And yes I have landed them all because I don’t roll my face across the keyboard like other players.

L2troll better.

Ima have to agree with butcher.

I played back in BW1 and nothing has changed about the difficulty of landing a Backstab, I would actually say its gotten easier with blackpowder and all

. . . What game are you playing?
Are you playing on a private server for guildwars?

Cause this is…

Not the same game you are describing

a t s e.9614:

Liewec.2896:

the problem is that warrior is the noob class,
it is ridiculously easy to pick up and own faces without the need of any knowledge.

they have no fancy mechanics to learn.
this means that they have the lowest skill requirement but also the lowest skill cap,

in a 1v1:
a bad warrior will most likely beat a fairly good [other class],
a master warrior will most likely lose to a master [other class].

in high end tournaments warriors are still taken because they are very effective at team fights, between the heavy sustained aoe damage and the constantly chained AoE CCs (throw in the damage/condi immunitys, a condi clear every 7 seconds and the large passive regen) warriors are a nightmare in team fights.

That’s the thing, actually very few people are good at this game except for the top players who play and win in high end tournaments. ( ESL cups, ToL etc)

Game population is : at least 30% noobs 60% average players and only 10% that mastered their class. Therefore , any1 who doesn’t play warrior will get owned by warriors unless you are a top player.

Because its only 1 mistake and you are most likely going to die. Arcing arrow 5k crit, hammer skills 4-5k each and eviscerate 7-10k. Only a top player can dodge/avoid everything , an average player will make at least 1 mistake and will die from it.

Then either I must be part of the top 10 or the warriors I see in yoloQ and hotjoin are garbage.

But since Warrior’s are OP…Guess I am the new addition to the top 10.

nearlight.3064:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Miss a dodge against a warrior = you are dead

Warrior stands still without dodging = signet will heal it up without you having to do anything

Yeah this sums it up. When I fight warriors as a shatter mesmer they take a 3-4 clone mind wrack pretty kitten well, and I die in two hits lolz.

I’m not that great of a mesmer but still :/

If you know you suck as a mesmer, why even post this as part of an arguement?

Well said OP. I think now we can direct all hyperbole to this thread. Also I have yet to run into this all in one warrior that can tank, heal through shouts, has high crit damage, high conditions, immunity to CC and conditions, high mobility, abundance of stuns, blocks, permanent swiftness, banners, fire fields and confusion.

When someone fights a 6/6/6/6/6 build record it so the rest of us can fight it

Rasalhague.8270:

Jerus.4350:

Rasalhague.8270:

Everything a Guardian does, another class can do better.
Oh except traited ressurection of course.

They dont excel in anything, and they still are not Jack of all trades like warrior/ele/engi

Group stability? Aegis?

Stability….every 30 seconds (feated), when other classes can knockback and pull you every 5 seconds.

Aegis 80 seconds cooldown from virtue, 60 seconds cooldown from retreat which will take the slot of other important skill….Aegis wont save you.

No profession has a pull every 5 seconds.
You as guardian with a standard meditation build have

3 ways to remove conditions
4 blinds
3 blocks
1 ranged projectile destroyer
1 invul
2 leaps and a teleport
2k heal every 16 seconds
1 pull
Group Buffs

and the next highest damage in game per rotation.

The only thing you can’t do is run fast.
There is a reason people have more than 1 bunker gaurdian on ToL teams.
and a reason why teams without guardians lost.

You may want to check into what the guardian does well, and try it, before coming and crying about nothing.

LordByron.8369:

Aberrant.6749:

LordByron.8369:

i would argue that “Learning” to play against invisible opponent is an oxymoron.
But when you are short on arguments L2P is Always the answer.

Thanks for proving my point.

If you took the time to play a thief for a short while, then played your normal main and dueled against one a bit… you would be able to learn quite a bit about what they do in a given situation, and how to counter them. This is a great way to help learn how to fight against any class, I highly recommend trying it.

I started out as a thief @ launch, now I hardly ever play mine, but I don’t have many probs against them unless their build counters mine (which hardly a problem with the thief). I learned. You can too.

Looking @ your other posts it seems you main an eng. If that’s right and you’re complaining about thieves… you’re doing something wrong.

I’d rather say you proved mine instead.

If your opponent is able to predict you, he is either lucky or a mind reader or more easily you are being predictable.

Being predictable is the main trait of an unexperienced player and as i said it all comes from thief side.

I often remember how soulcalibur IV developers refused to put a custom mode in its ranking games because skills like invisibility (2 seconds once per round) couldn t be included in ANY serious game mode.

Having no tell, and no reaction window simply removes skill from a game.
Prediction may be part of it, pushing it too far simply comes to luck.

Not to mention that you can easily browse internet for the most ridiculous stealth skill in a game and see what you find.

This would be accurate in a fighting game..or a game where going into stealth was permanent.

The way stealth is in this game, you only have 2 options. Attack or Flee.

Though again as has been pointed out.
If you actually played a thief, you would know how to fight against them.

This game isn’t complex, nor is it hard.
You either play, learn, and win or you play, fail, and cry.

4/10 initial troll..

But because you got people to respond I bump up your score to 7.5/10

Well done.

Wyrden.4713:

Solori.6025:

Wyrden.4713:

Solori.6025:

Roe.3679:

xbutcherx.3861:

nicknamenick.2437:

Warrior:
•high HP pool,heavy armor and high melee single target and AoE DPS, good crowd control, good mobility, frequent stun breakers
• Relies on landing its burst attacks to remove conditions.
Spending burst attacks cost adrenaline wich you first need to build and spending it will also cost you hps and/or other stat bonus like +crit/damage traits.
No defensive boons or any way to deal with boons on others
only 1 blind
only 1 combo field
no stealth/teleport/clones/pets or any other fancy stuff.

And yet no one sees this ^, and still think we are GODS? we have so many weaknesses, you just need to find them like on every other class.

These aren’t weaknesses, really. More like, things that warrior isn’t great at. Other classes have all these things to deal with as well. But calling such things weaknesses is overstating them, IMO.

Well yes a no.

For example a warrior isn’t great at dealing with targets that kite well.
On my mesmer I can kite a warrior for days.
A warrior isn’t great at dealing with more than one type of damage source.
Turrent Engineer and MM necro will be a threat to most of the typical hotjoin/yolo que warrior’s ( which are also the ones complaining about said builds)
A Warrior can not deal with frequent blinds and stealth ( guardian, Thief, mesmer)
A warrior has a hard time with smart burst.
By smart I mean baiting out the stances and dodge rolls.

A warrior is easy to predict.
animations and all.

celestial bow /axe/sword warrior? its pretty much a condi + direct dmg hybrid

I haven’t run into said warrior in Spvp.

IS this a WvW build?
Do you have a build for it?
How does it deal with condi removal builds.
Does it have good damage compared to the zerker counterpart?
Does it deal with blinds well?
How does it deal with mesmers ( both PU and Phant)
How does it deal with turrent engineers and MM necro’s?

Is it as effective as the straight condi or straight damage variant?

Hybrid builds in my experience are always lacking something that other builds which specialize into something have.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Full-Celestial-Warrior/first#post4154781

comments, axe/sword /longbow is a rly terrifying spec, nice sustain and dmg at same time

I really want to fight this build on my mesmer at some point, it sounds really interesting. But the lack of berserker stance is a glaring issue I see.
I really want to see how it stacks up against a PU condi or phantasm build

TyPin.9860:

I think this thread is a bit misunderstood. I asked if I might have missed weaknesses. Only a few had really addressed that issue. However, I could also say that having no stealth is a disadvantage of the necromancer, or having no hammer is a disadvantage of Mesmer. You get, where I am going? Many of the disadvantages listed but show the warrior philosophy here, of wanting to have everything.

I agree that the animations are easy to see for many hard hitting attacks. However, the frequency in which the hard hitting attacks are executed, are pressuring many players insanely. Also other professions have also easy to spot tells for certain attacks. Like condi necro going into death shroud and getting fear on you. Low health Mesmer wanting to escape with mass invisibility. Elementalist’s attunement telling what kind of attacks you can expect. And who didn’t hear elementalists complain about ride the lightning being always in long cool down? Thief using basilisk venom before porting to you or engineer switching to a certain tool kit. These are all things that tell you what’s about to come. And guardians for example have similar obvious animations. I mean a warrior switching to hammer also tells me, that I can expect a Earthshaker, however, if that didn’t hit, he has another 4 (soft to hard CC) attacks on that set and one of them will hit me sooner or later. If that happened, another chain of skills will hit me too, it is almost unavoidable at this point. The tell animations are there, but are not different to other builds, just the signs, telling me what comes next, are different, but not unique trait to warrior skills.

I ask you to list disadvantages of warriors, who are not in the spirit of “I don’t have stealth, so that’s a disadvantage”. But are really troubling and could be seen as a trade off in role diversity or weak spots. I mean, the disadvantages of all other professions are things you can build for. You can change you build, if you have issues against a certain profession, to help you deal with it. However, that is not possible against warriors, except focusing on evades/blocks, stun breakers and/or high mobility. This is but all focused on defense. Against an engineer I know I can pressure him with well timed stuns and/or conditions. Elementalists and Guardians are weaker to necromancers who corrupt and rip boons. But what is the warrior weak to?

@Bogy.2953:
So now I have to play every profession to discuss my impressions? I have specifically stated the possibility that I had overseen issues. Instead of pointing me there, you make empty statements.

I thought I addressed this but maybe not simple enough.

-Blocks
-Blinds
-Smart play***
-Boons/boon stealing/boon corruption
-Classes that can disengage and/or kite well

9/10

I approve this method sir.. And Anyone that is having troubke with mesmer should watch this.

Wyrden.4713:

Solori.6025:

Roe.3679:

xbutcherx.3861:

nicknamenick.2437:

Warrior:
•high HP pool,heavy armor and high melee single target and AoE DPS, good crowd control, good mobility, frequent stun breakers
• Relies on landing its burst attacks to remove conditions.
Spending burst attacks cost adrenaline wich you first need to build and spending it will also cost you hps and/or other stat bonus like +crit/damage traits.
No defensive boons or any way to deal with boons on others
only 1 blind
only 1 combo field
no stealth/teleport/clones/pets or any other fancy stuff.

And yet no one sees this ^, and still think we are GODS? we have so many weaknesses, you just need to find them like on every other class.

These aren’t weaknesses, really. More like, things that warrior isn’t great at. Other classes have all these things to deal with as well. But calling such things weaknesses is overstating them, IMO.

Well yes a no.

For example a warrior isn’t great at dealing with targets that kite well.
On my mesmer I can kite a warrior for days.
A warrior isn’t great at dealing with more than one type of damage source.
Turrent Engineer and MM necro will be a threat to most of the typical hotjoin/yolo que warrior’s ( which are also the ones complaining about said builds)
A Warrior can not deal with frequent blinds and stealth ( guardian, Thief, mesmer)
A warrior has a hard time with smart burst.
By smart I mean baiting out the stances and dodge rolls.

A warrior is easy to predict.
animations and all.

celestial bow /axe/sword warrior? its pretty much a condi + direct dmg hybrid

I haven’t run into said warrior in Spvp.

IS this a WvW build?
Do you have a build for it?
How does it deal with condi removal builds.
Does it have good damage compared to the zerker counterpart?
Does it deal with blinds well?
How does it deal with mesmers ( both PU and Phant)
How does it deal with turrent engineers and MM necro’s?

Is it as effective as the straight condi or straight damage variant?

Hybrid builds in my experience are always lacking something that other builds which specialize into something have.

BobbyT.7192:

Warrior also get damage ignoring stances ,decent regen and good access to blocks to help with there lack of teleports, pet and stealth

Yes but none of that is permanent and on a fairly long cooldown.

Which is why you either bait them or leave while the stance is up. ( berserker or endure pain)
Which is easy for guardian, mesmer, and thief, sometimes ranger.

Balance stance can be stolen, removed, or corrupted. If you are on a class that can.

If a warrior was to pop 3 stances at once then leave the point. Cause for the next 40 seconds they are a heavy punching bags. and a bad warrior, and there should be no reason to lose to such a player IF you are skilled.

Roe.3679:

xbutcherx.3861:

nicknamenick.2437:

Warrior:
•high HP pool,heavy armor and high melee single target and AoE DPS, good crowd control, good mobility, frequent stun breakers
• Relies on landing its burst attacks to remove conditions.
Spending burst attacks cost adrenaline wich you first need to build and spending it will also cost you hps and/or other stat bonus like +crit/damage traits.
No defensive boons or any way to deal with boons on others
only 1 blind
only 1 combo field
no stealth/teleport/clones/pets or any other fancy stuff.

And yet no one sees this ^, and still think we are GODS? we have so many weaknesses, you just need to find them like on every other class.

These aren’t weaknesses, really. More like, things that warrior isn’t great at. Other classes have all these things to deal with as well. But calling such things weaknesses is overstating them, IMO.

Well yes a no.

For example a warrior isn’t great at dealing with targets that kite well.
On my mesmer I can kite a warrior for days.
A warrior isn’t great at dealing with more than one type of damage source.
Turrent Engineer and MM necro will be a threat to most of the typical hotjoin/yolo que warrior’s ( which are also the ones complaining about said builds)
A Warrior can not deal with frequent blinds and stealth ( guardian, Thief, mesmer)
A warrior has a hard time with smart burst.
By smart I mean baiting out the stances and dodge rolls.

A warrior is easy to predict.
animations and all.

Hitman.5829:

Saturn.6591:

How does stealth make them useless?

Are you seriously asking that? Going in stealth and waiting for the skill to fade is what is making the utility skill useless.

OOhhh

OOOHH I LOVE THIS LOGIC!!

Ok… so…
Stances should put up revealed. yea?

Cripple and chill should stop you from leaping.

Necro well’s should apply a root every half second.

Ranger spirits should apply there benefits 100% of the time.

Thief should be able to backstab through blocks

Elementalist should have attunements cooldown be a base of 7 seconds

Engineer should be able to have two weapon sets

and Mesmer should have auto attacks apply confusion.

YAY LOGIC!

Thank the high lords of mount Olympus you haven’t fought any Guardians, Ele’s, Engineers, Mesmers, or Rangers yet.

I don’t think we have enough bucket’s for that kind of QQ

Emi.4152:

yay! nerf all the things!

1. i use my burst skills when i’m blinded. it should be more rewarding!
2. i spam all my skills at an evade spam thief and it doesn’t work. it should be more rewarding!
3. i throw my aoes out randomly at a stealth target so they do not do enough damage when they accidentally hit. it should be more rewarding!
4. i waste my dodges and blocks on situations where i know they will not help. it should be more rewarding!
5. i can’t beat people unless they make a mistake when i’m obviously making many. it should be more rewarding!

i… you… okay…

..^…..I think this is pretty much the /thread post

If you take one type of food out you take all types of food out.
Just like no one needs the condition food,. You dont need the food that adds 100+ power either.

Less bias that way also

ArrDee.2573:

Bhawb.7408:

And Necromancers should have lots of boons and mobility, and Thieves need to tank!

Seriously though, its designed for them to be weak to conditions. The issue is the existence of Warriors who spit in the face of the “weaknesses” they are supposed to have.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here retired #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Interesting input from a Necromancer frand! I bet it would be a gosh darn shame for you if your class didn’t 100% counter mine anymore! Engineers already have plenty of weaknesses! Focus fire! Burst damage! Not many stunbreaks! Retal! And of course conditions!

And every class has weaknesses! That’s thilly! Warriors say hello! Balance!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

hahaha vee I cant..

I cant even with you right now

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

I haven’t played this game for about 2 months, just came back to WvW and this is what I found:

I get spammed with conditions by pistol/dagger thieves, unable to hit them for the slightest number of damage. Uber trolling by anyone capable of facerolling the keyboard with the right equipment. Outhealing any damage I try to inflict.

• This is the point where you will tell me to get more vitality, more condition cleansing or even food. L2P, dodge the right skills.

I try to damage a hammer / x warrior. It gets healed up within seconds. (I’ve been fighting this bugger for minutes) Not because I can’t outplay him. But just because even when I would hit him while he’s afk, would take hours to get his health down to zero.

• And here you will probably tell me its all a matter of learning the key mechanics of the Warrior, and my build sucks because I can’t outdamage him. All L2P right? Poison him to decrease his healing effectiveness.

(fyi: I’m playing a Sword/Pistol thief since beta)
(tl:dr: OP might be correct)

That is a problem actually.

If you were playing S/D nothing would be able to touch you because of perma evades.

If you were playing D/P, nothing would be able to touch you because you would perma stealth.

But you decided to play sword/pistol..

I actually wonder how well you do, because if hammer wars give you issues I cant imagine how hard rangers are for you to fight.

Weez.6315:

After seeing that Balance Philosophy Livestream i just needed to point out what changes the classes really need in my opinion

mesmer:

-Phantasm build nerf – There souldnt be a way to play where you just cast 2 phantasm with maybe a CC and then just kite… wait for ur next Phantasm and go on kiting. How can you seriously want that —? change the way Phantasms work / let them just use one attackchain and let em despawn after a few seconds so u can still shatter them

-Pu Trait nerf – Isnt stealth enough to take an advantage upon ur oponent? does it really has to be perma protection and Regeneration + aegis ? u cant kill a smart playing PU (most in wvw arent smart though…)Do we really wanna have an unkillable opponent with pretty decent damage?

(I am main Mesmer myself and really know what this class should be able to do and what not)

-Autoattack is at the moment by far the lowest damage of all classes ( only gs with max range is pretty decent) so a buff there would be a nice change

-the AoE dmg is pretty low but hey not every class should be able to do massive aoes.. so thats ok in my opinion

-the utility skills could be more supportive for the team though but there were some good changes in the last patch so its hopefully on a good way

Thief:

-Same as for the mesmer (Pu) the Trait Shadows Rejuvenation : WHY should there be a way to deal a massive amount of dmg without risking ur life in any situation?

I know there are so many bad players out there u can kill even if they use that trait, but offering that way to play is just wrong.

Warrior:

-lack of mobility seriously? even a thief has to make a big effort to be as fast as a warrior.
But shouldnt be a HEAVY armor class the slowest class? just think about it..

-and seriously nerf the offhand sword torment skill. Without using any condition gear ur dealing like 5k damage + the skill is hard to dodge

Ranger:

-well the pet is in most situations and game modes really useless, there should be a way for the ranger to control the movement and skills more with F1-F4. To make the pet just stronger would be just stupid. it needs more surviveability and more usefulness

-the 1hand sword autochain is pretty useless in pvp even if u get used to it

-overall i think ranger is one of the best one on one classes with awesome surviveability. so make some changes to pet control etc and its a decent class for at least pvp /wvw roaming
in pve dungeons u can deal a lot of damage with ranger if u know how, the stupid warriors shouting for other warriors will never learn it..

-so only thing is the utility of this class in Zerg wvw, there we need big changes though

necro:

- pretty strong with condition and zerker damage in pvp and wvw / really hard to deal with in 1on1s
i think its one of the strongest classes but dont nerf it cause its strong make others better

the only nerf goes hand in hand with my wish of a condition damage nerf
..cause condi spam cant be the answer for everything in pvp
i guess anet wanna make condi dmg a good alternative to zerker in pve but 1st Why do we need that and 2nd then we would need a separation between pvp and pve

guard:

-for me its like necro one of the strongest classes in every game mode. Does not need any changes

engi:

- i like it how it is with only a bit more surviveability against condis without that 100% immune crap

Best regards Mimsy [iP] Inglorious Pasta r80 wvw roamer

I was at first going to comment on the mesmer section because that is my main also.
Then I realized these are just your wishes and the likelyhood of most of them happening is pretty much 1/100,000,000,000,000

In short I dont agree with most of this because it seems you are trying to balance things through WvW, and most things in WvW are broken because of a different rule set, food, runes, and objectives being zerg based.

Julie Yann.5379:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I wouldn’t complain about Warriors if they had meaningful weaknesses. I know they’re not THE best in almost any category (other than having to do the least actively to stay alive), but they’re pretty good in all of them, #4 (out of at worst.

I’d be happy if ANet made their intended weaknesses actual weaknesses and made their intended strengths a bit stronger. For example, their cleansing ability (an intended weakness) should not be on-par with Necros (their intended strength).

We used to have that but people whined about warriors strengths being to strong (people would get insta gibbed) and they nerfed our damage, and nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage until our DPS was is reasonable range but by then our weaknesses were too strong and we couldn’t stay alive long enough to kill anybody. So Anet decided to buff our defenses but instead of doing it incrementally they threw it all in at once. Then people complained that we can’t be killed and that we still hit too hard so the nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage and nerfed our healing. People are still crying and they will keep crying until warriors are back were they belong, standing beside rangers as free kills.

This basically^

People want this game to play itself and for them to be successful with minimal effort.
Warriors aren’t hard to fight against, if you actually try to learn the game and do well.

Sylli.3891:

Hammerguard.9834:

The problem with condi damage seeming so strong is the players. Either they’re running condi duration food and you’re not, you have extremely low vitality because you and everyone else thinks you only need toughness, or you aren’t running good condi cleanse. Then you come on the forums and cry about how condi is kittenting on you.

ye i am playing a guardian and i got full condition remove say hey to 4 spem condition ea sec i kittening remove that much ea sec. the problem it that guard dont get more the 20 k hp and its 1 of the lowest healing pool

If you are dying to conditions as a guardian you are doing something wrong.

I say this from a Zerker Guardians perspective.

You dont need to blow your condi cleanse on 2 stacks of bleeding, get runes of the hoelbrak, dont sit in red AoE’s, use blinds effectively.