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Newbie Needing Advice on Power/Survival Build

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Spoj The Second.7680

Target the weak is a really strong trait for power builds because it increases your direct damage for each unique condition on a target. This includes non damaging conditions like weakness, blind and cripple. Its not very useful for condi builds because they dont have a lot of direct damage.

Signet of spite is a really nice power boost. I love to keep it on my bar. But if you have a more difficult fight coming up then its probably the first utility you should swap for well of darkness or well of power. So I would personally keep it most of the time.

For spite i usually run spiteful talisman because I use the focus. If you arent using that then you could take reapers might or spiteful spirit instead. For the second trait you should usually use chill of death. Its more of a pvp trait but it synergises with target the weak so its still quite nice in pve. Final spite trait should always be close to death because damage good!

For curses i recommend weakening shroud (aoe dmg and weakness when going into DS) and banshees wail. Banshees wail will allow you to daze and cripple much more often with warhorn which is probably our best defensive offhand in pve. Its also good for damage aswell.

If you want more details. I explain most of this stuff in my guide stickied at the top of the necro subforum(see signature for link).

(edited by Spoj The Second.7680)

Newbie Needing Advice on Power/Survival Build

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Posted by: Spoj The Second.7680

Spoj The Second.7680

Your utility choice and weapon choice is pretty good. Like you said well of darkness is a good safety well. You can also use well of power to help in condi situations.

Personally I wouldnt use blood or death magic. Necro’s base hp is already high enough and you have DS and dodges to avoid most damage. Once you get to 80 you might consider using energy sigils to help you survive. But the most important thing for survival is learning to dodge, use cc and debuff. With necro you have a number of different options. Some arent very reliable but they can still help.

First of all your offhand dagger is a blind + condi remove. This can be used pretty effectively to save a dodge on regular mobs. The blind wont work on bosses or champions (unshakeable). You also have dagger 5 which gives aoe weakness. Weakness isnt perfect but if the mob/boss hits you with weakness on him the damage is going to be nicely reduced thanks to glancing blows.

You should also consider focus and warhorn. Warhorn gives an aoe daze which is really useful for interrupting mobs and it also has a nice aoe cripple which allows you to kite mobs. Focus is more offensive, but the chill can be used to kite/slow down mobs and the vuln will allow you to kill them faster. You also have immobalize on your mainhand dagger which is incredibly useful if you need to get away to heal.

For general sustain, your active defense + heal + dagger 2 should be enough when played right. For traits i recommend going full offensive (30/25/0/0/15 or 20/25/0/0/25). But if you want some extra sustain 30/25/0/15/0 or 20/25/0/25/0 can also work. The sustain isnt great, but if you learn to avoid most of the damage it can really bring your hp back up quite quickly. I recommend berserker gear or for slightly more defense, knights armour with berserker weapons and trinkets.

General Dungeon Discussion Thread - Part 1

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Spoj The Second.7680

I dont usually do wvw. But weve been doing it for the new season. Its quite fun in a small group, but I could never go do it solo. Too boring and zerging is just dull.

20 Slot Fractal Ascended Equipment Box

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They should just give us a gear bag. I have this problem on my ele. But my other classes I manage to avoid it because I always have 3 weapons equipped. Ele only causes it because of staff. :<

So those meta builds

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Because you dont get the 10% while attuned to air if you are camping water. And 10%*10% > 20%.

Lilith's Fashionable Dungeon Run Challenge

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Spoj The Second.7680

What happens when i let my little cousin choose a characters style.

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So those meta builds

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(edited by Spoj The Second.7680)

DS #1 vs Dagger #1

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Spoj The Second.7680

?
No axe traited does not more dmg (DS1) then staff. That´s the point. Believe it or not.
It doesn´t matter, fact is fact. Test it in the mists if u want.

read above my posts…

it does more dmg end of story … don’t care what stats are saying….

Just ignore maths, accurate tests and all logic. Good plan.

so numbers ingame is a lie?

No but your test was inaccurate. I explained this already. You experienced variance (weapons deal random damage within a range). If you want to test accurately test on the golems in the mists with steady weapons.

So those meta builds

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DE is a strong solo trait. But in group situations you generally dont want it. Only exception I can think of is when trying to setup a big reflect on lupi.

DS #1 vs Dagger #1

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it does more dmg end of story … don’t care what stats are saying….

Just ignore maths, accurate tests and all logic. Good plan.

Why is this class 'bad'?

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http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skale_Venom_%28consumable%29

Perma weakness. No need for a class to sacrifice anything for it when you can just use scale venom instead of pots. You only need weakness in fractals anyway, and pots arent always useful in fracs.

MM and Fractals?

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You dont even need a screen to play sentinels. Thats the very definition of brainless.

DS #1 vs Dagger #1

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Spoj The Second.7680

havent tested it myself, i recall an old thread where it was tested and staff won. Is the difference high at your tests?

it was 100-200 deference. not much but still its there. tested on vet spark no interupts, no conditions. clean hits. ofc at 100% crit chance.

Thats due to variance. Using maths they should produce exactly the same average dps. This is because axe as an average weapon damage of 1000 and staff has an average weapon damage of 1100. So axe with the 10% modifier bumps it up to 1100 (1000*1.1).

So those meta builds

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anti toxin is meta btw

Acquire Dungeons Skins for PVE by Playing PVP

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I solo it on warrior or ele. Dont have time to spend all day on necro. :/

DS #1 vs Dagger #1

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Axe with axe training is exactly the same as staff. Axe with axe training and slaying sigil + force is slightly better than staff because staff only has 1 sigil slot. But as i said i avoided using the extra slaying sigil on all calculations. Plus staff will have 2 sigil slots after the april patch so the difference will be gone.

Staff will probably win in testing because the damage varies less than with axe.

(edited by Spoj The Second.7680)

Acquire Dungeons Skins for PVE by Playing PVP

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Cause its fun to solo and theres no competition.

Acquire Dungeons Skins for PVE by Playing PVP

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Spoj The Second.7680

This also kind of ruins my plan to sell ta once merge is fixed. :/

Acquire Dungeons Skins for PVE by Playing PVP

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Thing is buyers will now do pvp hotjoin instead of buying arah now.

Blinding Ashes AOE or Single Target?

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Not sure why anet keep doing these global icd’s. They completely kill the traits in pve and they arent even that good in pvp anyway. This is basically a copy of the terrible necros withering precision. Poor design decision. They need to start making icd’s per target instead of global.

DS #1 vs Dagger #1

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I used staff to calculate lifeblast damage. For all variants i assumed 1 slaying sigil. But if you used axe focus with slaying + force you could get slightly higher damage with lifeblast than you could with staff. But then you could also get slightly higher damage on dagger if you used slaying + force. So i ignored force for all variants seeing as a lot of the time you might need energy sigils.

I tried to give the lifeblast build as favourable buffs as possible but it still fell short. In a real setting you probably wouldnt stack power food and bloodlust because your base crit chance outside of DS would be so low. But i assumed those were use to get the absolute maximum possible lifeblast damage in this setting.

(edited by Spoj The Second.7680)

Dps loss per profession (feature patch)

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Spoj The Second.7680

Empowered is probably better than 10 in discipline. So hes kind of right for groups atleast.

DS #1 vs Dagger #1

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Turns out i do have some numbers saved. In fully buffed groups with banners, might, vuln, fury, sigils, scholar runes, pots and max dps food and stacks.

Dagger on 30/25/0/0/15 does about 10.2k dps and life blast on 30/10/0/0/30 does 9.5k dps at below 600 range and 6.8k dps above 600 range. Without stacks dagger does 9.4k dps and lifeblast does 8.9k dps and 6.3k dps above 600 range.

I also calculated life blast on the dagger build with stacks. It does 8.7k dps and 6.2k dps.

DS #1 vs Dagger #1

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It varies a lot. But in organised groups dagger 1 should always beat DS 1 by a large margin. Ive done the maths several times but i never keep it. Probably should haha.

And even in the cases of DS 1 doing more than dagger 1, you have to consider lifeblast down time due to lifeforce etc. So its not even ideally suited for pugs. Dagger still does good damage in all situations.

This is from a pve perspective.

Why is this class 'bad'?

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Well you said you dont run dungeons. Dungeons you only have 5 players. So depending on your group composition you are probably going to miss something. Anyway even ignoring utility, bringing ranger is important to achieve the highest damaging party compostion in the game.

http://youtu.be/oVRXR4TqWzk
Ranger was essential for this record. And dont look at this as trivalising content. My guildmembers in this video took days of attempts to get this kill.

Long story short. Organised groups and knowledgable players will always welcome a decent sword/x ranger (most rangers are bearbows so you wont see this in pugs) in their groups. Because they bring a lot to the table and increase group dps by a huge amount. The same cant be said for necro.

(edited by Spoj The Second.7680)

Why is this class 'bad'?

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This is why you run sword warhorn, sword torch/axe/dagger. Fire field is not a waste of 2 skills. For dps you are just going to be using the sword auto so there is literally no use having an offhand which doesnt have utility just because 1 skill isnt useful to you. There is nothing lost by taking a torch, you still have your dps auto attack.

Examples: Necro focus 5 is not worth casting ever except on 1 champ in the entire game (champ ettin in fractals). But focus 4 is so you take it just for that. Extra weapon skills are supposed to be used situationally. You dont spam warhorn 4 on necro because thats not helpful and it doesnt do damage. You dont spam your skills. Use them when they are useful. Which applies to offhand torch on ranger.

Anyway having the ranger with sword torch is very helpful when you have an lh ele. They cant keep a firefield up for themselves while staying in LH so the ranger can help. So can other classes but thats not the point. Its the fact that ranger has these things aswell. Necro doesnt even have the option to help in this way. I think you are underating the value of fire fields and blast finishers in pve.

(edited by Spoj The Second.7680)

Why is this class 'bad'?

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Well you wouldnt use a scepter on a power build because theres no reason to. But torch is an offhand and in pve its auto attacks which provide the dps so you can equip offhands according to what utility you need. You will be using sword for dps. And greatsword for more challenging fights. Which means you usually have the freedom to choose between axe for reflect, dagger for evade, torch for fire field and warhorn for blast/dmg.

Same thing goes for necro to a certain extent. You use dagger mainhand and then offhands can change. Usually you run focus and warhorn but offhand dagger (usually condi) can work as a condi cleanse/blind/weakness debuff for power builds. Its all about adapting to encounters.

(edited by Spoj The Second.7680)

Dredge Fractal Chance increased 9000x

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nah im not kidding i got asura not uncatorized. Its realy possible to get 3 utherly bad fractal one at a time.

starting: Hillside
Second: dredge
third: Asura

Curse the luck? Hah we got this far so we did this anyway and i aint gunna quit just because i caugh Asura especialy when the boss is somewhat the one boss i have the best affinity for (minions dont fall in holes)

Thx god we didnt get Mai Trin but jade maw else this run wouldve theoricaly been the worst fractal run ever (not that i mind having like 3 yellow item per boss drop for me as well as a few lodestone the loot was epic…)

Well thats impossible. Cliffside is tier 2 and 3 so you can only get it 2nd or 3rd. Dredge and thaumanova are tier 3 so you can only get them 3rd. You are definately mixing up different fractal runs.

Dps loss per profession (feature patch)

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assuming you have a 100% critchance 30 points in critical dmg are already converted in 300 ferocity which means a 10% dps loss alone from traits, also you lose up on 5% to 10% depending on night or daytime due to the sigils, but we have to see how this mechanic works out, furthermore you have to take your gear, bufffood and disci banner into consideration, so we can t really say anything yet. I expect an average dmg decrease by 30% in an organized group.

This is probably the part he is referring to. Because its much less than 10% damage lost from just traits.

Share Your WTF / Funny Moments in Dungeons!

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I suspect Kyubi hasnt done alphard recently.

ps. Shes changed.

Why is this class 'bad'?

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Theres no such thing as exclusive weapons to certain builds. You can take the torch for a fire field and swap it out before getting in combat or just keep it on the second weapon set. You can take warhorn for blast and then swap out in the same way. Many encounters in dungeons allow time for pre-stacking might/swiftness/stealth without getting in combat.

I forgot to mention. Yeah pets are another reason people dislike rangers. But they arent as unmanageable as people make out most of the time.

And yes necros have plenty of debuffs. But i assume because you dont do dungeons you dont realise how bad condition damage is and how poorly debuff conditions work in pve. The things they do are outclasses by the things rangers do in dungeons. Necros arent so bad in fractals because weakness and chill are a little more important there, but still can be covered by consumables or other classes so there is no need for a necro which has no cleave.

General Dungeon Discussion Thread - Part 1

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This saves me some grind. I will still get extra sets eventually for convenience but atleast now theres no restriction on what class i take into fractals.

Dredge Fractal Chance increased 9000x

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Impressive getting 3 tier 3 fractals in 1 run.

Ferocity: A Failed "Solution"

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Math in the Guard forums? It affects each class approximately the same, don’t tell me you calculated with skill damage.

Everyone looses about 20% crit damage, wich results with 50% crit chance into about 10% damage reduction. Yea.

We actually lose about 35% – 50% crit damage. And in a buffed up group that ranges between 16% to 20% damage lost depending on the class and build.

General Dungeon Discussion Thread - Part 1

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I can’t wait for the days that I stop seeing the word “heavies” on LFG.

On the other hand, that same day mesmers will probably be phased out of the pug meta just like they mostly are in dungeon guilds.

Poor mesmers

Poor necros*

Option To 'Hide' Hideous Headgear?

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The hide feature doesnt show up if you arent wearing a helm. When you dont have a checkbox it means you arent wearing a helm and there is nothing to hide.

Why am I so negative about this class?

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Im negative about necro because there is so much wasted potential. And it would be so easy to bring the class up to the same level of other classes with only tweaks. The class could of been so good but they butchered it. In gw1 necro was a really strong class, im not sure how they managed to completely kill one of the most popular classes for gw2.

Anyway, I dont really play necro much anymore. I have all classes at 80 except for ranger so I have plenty of choice and id much rather play something fun and useful. I still love the necro aesthetic but I cant enjoy the necro in its current state so it just sits there unused while i wait for anet to do something. Yet every patch is a disappointment and wasted oppotunity. Especially the upcoming feature patch, 5 new grandmaster traits and not a single one improves necro pve viability…

If i was happy with the class I probably wouldnt post and give feedback. This is probably how it is for most people. I dont have much to give on ele, warrior or guardian because they are all in almost perfect positions for pve. So you have to expect most feedback and discussions about anything in the forums is going to have a negative tone.

(edited by Spoj The Second.7680)

General Dungeon Discussion Thread - Part 1

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Despite pugs being so far behind the meta they still seem to eventually learn some proper speedrun tactics and spread them. Curious why they dont learn about the classes though.

Why is this class 'bad'?

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Well i would much rather have a ranger in my group. Spotter, frost spirit, fury, might, fire field, blasts, vuln, reflects and huge long duration imobalize. And theres more obviously.

For general PvE yeah I’d agree. Spotter is in a tree that is packed with goodies, so it’s hard to take sometimes. Rangers do have really good fury and vuln uptime, but might is only 1 aoe stack unless you take a cat. Spirit rangers kinda suck for dungeons and fractals, trap rangers are best for spvp. The reflect is very situational, you can’t move, and it’s on an offhand weap that almost no ranger uses. Entangle is good for general pve and little else, the roots are paper. Basically the best option for ranger is condi…which of course sucks for the 25 stack limit.

Condi necros are at a disadvantage just as much with the stack limit. So I would agree with you on that part for sure. But like someone else said up top, a high power/crit build necro does very high damage with DS traited right, especially lich form. By comparison, my ranger with the same power/crit stats does much less. And while they don’t have many hard CC options, they have oodles of soft options like chill, cripple, and fears. Not to mention the poisons, weaknesses, vulns, and blinds. Their single largest detractor is the lack of a decent non-elite stabo. Guardians are my friends.

I think you may want to look into the meta build for ranger. While it has its flaws. The issues you mention are barely worth taking notice of. I mentioned entangle because it is really powerful in certain fights (tar in arah p1 & legendary flame imbued shaman). The might for ranger isnt great, but they have a blast finisher on 1 of their best offhands. They also have a fire field if your group doesnt have one themselves. Necro doesnt have this kind of access to group buffing. The meta build only uses frost spirit and its very easy to position it where it wont die for each fight. I have the pleasure of playing with someone who enjoys playing sword warhorn ranger in dungeons, so im well aware of the huge benefits it brings. There is nothing worthwhile that the necro brings in comparison.

Sword warhorn ranger does only slightly less dps than dagger necro. In terms of organised groups the dps between classes is very similar. Ele and thief are top by a large margin, the rest are around the same with engi on bottom and guard slightly above the rest.

The only reason people consider ranger bottom tier is because of bearbow rangers giving them a bad rep and the fact that sword is quite difficult to get used to and downright suicidal in some fights. Simply put sword auto has its flaws and is the rangers best dps option so this causes problems for many people.

Oh and for the reflect. People shouldnt be moving while reflecting anyway. If you move out from under the guardians wall you are going to get hit. Most reflects require tight stacking and no movement to work reliably. So being rooted while reflecting isnt an issue. We actually have better luck with ranger reflects than guardian reflects when killing lupi in our daily arah runs (less projectiles bug through the reflect and down people and ranger more consistantly skips phase 2).

(edited by Spoj The Second.7680)

Why is this class 'bad'?

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Spoj The Second.7680

Well i would much rather have a ranger in my group. Spotter, frost spirit, fury, might, fire field, blasts, vuln, reflects and huge long duration imobalize. And theres more obviously.

Dps loss per profession (feature patch)

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Spoj The Second.7680

assuming you have a 100% critchance 30 points in critical dmg are already converted in 300 ferocity which means a 10% dps loss alone from traits, also you lose up on 5% to 10% depending on night or daytime due to the sigils, but we have to see how this mechanic works out, furthermore you have to take your gear, bufffood and disci banner into consideration, so we can t really say anything yet. I expect an average dmg decrease by 30% in an organized group.

I accounted for all that in my calculations. The only thing we dont know for sure is the rune, banner and food conversions with ferocity.

Dps loss per profession (feature patch)

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DS build loses over 17% damage. It loses almost 2% more damage than the meta build. Wow im bored…

Dps loss per profession (feature patch)

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Necro is a 16% loss ignoring stacks. Not that anyone cares. xD

Improving fundamental issues with dungeons

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Well no matter what they do, boss loot in gw2 is the worst ive ever seen in any game.

Why is this class 'bad'?

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Spoj The Second.7680

Disclaimer: “The necro is not really bad.”

But when you take into account how the game plays out at the most basic mechanics (damage, control, support), how would you rate the necro? People need to honestly ask themselves without over complicating the final answer. Keep it simple, good or bad?

How is the necro when it comes to dealing damage?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against damage?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing control?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against control?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing support?
How is the necro when it comes to receiving support?

Answer these questions with a simple “good” or “bad.” Then ask yourself these same questions for the other classes and see where the necro ranks overall.

Thats over simplifying it tbh. Necro is not really terrible at any of those things but the other classes can provide a lot more of each in most cases. Its also the type of support, damage and control that matters and how useful that is compared to other types.

No matter how you look at it necro is bottom in pve. Ranger (debatable) and engi are also bottom tier classes but they are leagues above necro at the moment.

Improving fundamental issues with dungeons

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Making decent loot tables inside dungeons would prevent the majority of skipping. Boss loot tables should also be drastically improved. It doesnt make sense that dungeons are so poor for loot yet open world is fine…

Agree with boss suggestions.

LFG Improvements

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- Re-named the merge button to “Grief” to avoid confusion and prevent unintentional griefing. You can still use this feature to grief those pesky path sellers.

[DD] SE p1 3:29 [Restricted]

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Spoj The Second.7680

Can we not take digs at rivaling guilds. Things get really boring when that happens.

Why is this class 'bad'?

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Spoj The Second.7680

Warrior doesnt out damage ele. Thats a misconception from about a year ago. Warrior is easier to play and survive with though.

Why is this class 'bad'?

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Spoj The Second.7680

Nope but im talking about pve.