Guild Wars 2

WvW conditions in a zerg.. i dont recommend it, specially not on a mesmer.

For PU “roaming” off on the side lines, yeah go for it.

Dont worry about “high end” builds till you hit 80 and can actually unlock the traits the class needs to be on level with untraited warriors/guards/necros/eles/etc.. :P

I would play Guardian if they had any decent ranged options tbh…

vladracul.6798:

Jamin.6528:

As cool as all these ideas about the Realm of Torment, Abaddon, Menzies, Razah, et cetera… I think you’re all setting yourselves up for a major disappointment. I think this story will, unfortunately, go about with us following the footsteps of Scarlet to understand Mordremoth. If something from the original Guild Wars lore pops up, like any of the aforementioned names (or even Mursaat for that matter) then I will be pleasantly surprised. However, I don’t see it happening.

Not trying to be a pessimist or anything. I’m just trying to be realistic and I want to make sure that people don’t hype up the season too much. It led to a huge disappointment with Season One.

have you already done the story of this episode? Well, whatever, feel very surprised. Varesh was mentioned lol so is not like people are hyping up anything, they are just using their brains.

Problem is, many people never played or heard about Guild Wars before, so they think most of these things are overthinking. However, as the story unveils, It is clearly showing it is not overthinking.

Thank you all for the laugh, truely.

I think its interesting OP, that the RoT and scarlet drawings overlap so much and share so much. it could be related or it could just be that Anet recycles old things for profit -cough-…

The rest of you tho, bat kitten crazy. I urge you to calm yourselves and go re-read lore… then apply logic to your predictions.

If your theory has more than a Single “But what if” in it, it’s not a good theory. its really not, Menzies enslaving the elder dragons to rule cantha.. litterally.. makes no sense.. none..

Abbadon is dead.. dead dead.. like dead.. get over it.

And to the above, no, it’s clearly been shown to be over thinking far too many times over to be thought of as anything else. Anet mentions Varresh ? What was the context? oh yeah.. in context of getting dumber things to do dirty work for you.. something scarlet did and Varresh did and was herself, a part of in both cases…

It’s not a revelation, its a passing nod for Gw1 players still playing Gw2…

accidental faces from textures and geo-polygons…

working as intended!

Staff is fine for shatter builds, the boons from bouncing 1 auto’s from you and your clones grant might and fury (more damage + more crit chance) Just don’t rely on the condition damage to kill things.

It’s not optimal for Dungeons but you can still play it and do alright, open world PvE (solo and small group) its a solid choice to go shatter. Avoid zerg content tho, you’ll mostly be hitting F1 and F2 just to tag things with no clones up. GS works well for Zerg content too but its also mostly single target hit then swap to keep tagging..

much sustain.

very synergy

so meta

wow

To ignore and kinda not ignore some of the above posts and just reply to the OP.

Yes Gw1 had greater build diversity for a very long time.

Why? Second professions along with a huge pile of skills to swap in and out of and “trait” for to make more effective. Towards the end of its more healthy run, Mesmers were king of Build diversity as casters and had more builds than you could shake a stick at due to one somewhat OP and broken Elite skill (the one signet that applied your stat in Illusions, usually 16, to any skills following its use)

But Gw1 also had a lot of potential to create “Broken” builds which then needed a tweak or nerf from the devs. And Gw1 also had the potential to create a ton of useless builds. Warrior with Firestorm anyone?

Balance was a nightmare in Gw1.

Build diversity in Gw2 is more focused on Gear and Traits and Food and Kits… etc.. its all about the NUMBERS and how your NUMBERS stack up against the enemies NUMBERS. It’s much less about forging your own play style and often more about forcing the game to kind of submit to your preference in play style with very mixed results.
Many professions are stuck with mechanics that, while good on paper, after 2 years kind of show that they don’t work as well as they could/should.
Many traits are useless and untouched by the vast majority of the player base i’m sure and some classes are even defined and made viable by their trait lines. Drawing build diversity from only 1 or two of the multiple sources Gw2 presents rather than all 4 or 5.

Locked Weapon skills and limited weapon selection allow an easier time for players to select a weapon that fits what they want to do while allowing Anet an easier time balancing them… if they would ever balance them.. and at the same time denies players the ability to really tune their character and class and “role” to what they want. Lack of serious variety of utilities also contributes to this and a few professions i play have some that are down right silly to take no matter what you are trying to do with them.

Gw2 also suffers from problems with conditions, boons, and other such things that play on this as well but that’s a different discussion for a different thread that the devs will also ignore.

TL;DR
Gw1 had more build diversity due to its mechanics, the same mechanics that made it difficult to create viable builds.

Gw2 is casual friendly and requires less thought and effort.

lul iz game y so srs?

not really a constructive post anywhere, ever..

I’m on the boat of disappointment myself. What many new players to Gw2 don’t realize is that there is a veteran audience that played Gw1 for years.. grew up with it as one of their favorite games to spend time on or at the least became attached to it in some way.

there is/was a very large playerbase that offered A-net a lot of their time and well wishes and hope for a better and bigger GW game.

Anet then turned around and delivered something that was not.. perfect, by any means, but it still had potential to deliver on so many promises, and had so much room to grow.

then as time went by many of those Veteran players watched in horror as the community was flooded by a newer generation.. one that does not foster good relations or feelings or offer any sort of cohesive feed back.

slowly anet turned to the newer players in confusion and as instructed by them.. lowered their baggy britches and huffed and puffed and produced smelly fecal loafs one after the other on the player base as per demand by the same player base.

when the player base retaliated and complained, anet forced more kitten on their heads and apologized while doing so, and then again.. and again.. and then the apologies stopped.. and then the silence began as kitten still continues to dribble and drop from above..

This is what being a mesmer feels like.. this is what Gw2 as a whole feels like after 2 years..

this is what it feels like to be a Gw1 vet that has to now wait for Gw2.5.. or Gw3.. or some new MMO to come along to get some of my biggest itches scratched and wants met.

No, Anet.. I refuse to believe that you as a company “lack resources” to maintain and fill out your game. I refuse to believe that you have any sort of QA process that would not bring laughs to the table of other business professionals. and I refuse to believe that LS is the answer everyone wants and needs and that you as a company retain the balls and back bone to really shake up the MMO world the ways you clearly wanted to….

Mantra Support is not a bad idea for PvE, it can be fun to play if thats your thing but you cannot just simply put 4 into Inspiration and necessarily succeed at support.

Mantra traits are very scattered, Dueling holds a reduced recharge trait you’ll need for at least 2 points.

This is where i have to point out that Mesmer have to do 3 times the work for Half the rewards tho, Managing Mantras to keep the heals up is a pain in the kitten . seriously.. its not a lot of fun and it eats up a LOT of your fight time charging them up (3s per charge per mantra per heal) and if you so much as break that channel, its no heal and a longer wait to try again.

Phantasms granting Regen is also kind of helpful to your party, provided you know where to place them and when to place them and they don’t get destroyed by monster AOE…

Vigor on Shatter can actually benefit your party more than a heal in 90% of combat cases, more dodges for everyone means more invulnerable time for everyone. this only takes 2 into Inspiration to grab.

Mesmers also have more access to preventative support than they do reactive support (healing). Random boons from Chaos storm, boon sharing via the signet, stealth, Haste, Stuns, a pull or a push.. it’s easier to build down this path than it is to attempt to be a Staff Guardian, it’s much less crippling or intrusive to how mesmers work at this time.

Oddly due to the Sub vs Non Sub modles anet is in a bit of a strange place.

Option 1. Anet does not focus on Piece meal “Content” and Gem Shop Skins But Focuses on Gw2’s Bugs – Anet loses out on current Player Pocket Change to some extent but may retain a higher player base for a longer time.

Option 2. Anet Focuses on in game Horizontal Progression and Expanding Core mechanics and fleshing out what is present to its fullest extent. – No Cash influx on Gem Shop items, potential loss of players seeking more story and end game, retains players and potentially gains more players as the good word spreads who may then spend some money on the game/gems.

Option 3. Anet only focuses on LS and filler content with Gem based Horizontal Progression and Balances the rest of the “Loot game” around Gem prices/ Gold Conversion – Anet loses players seeking more substantial content, anet loses Hard core players, Anet does not earn many new sales of the game due to potential word of mouth, anet retains casual audiences and influxes of money every 2 weeks.

While i’m positive a more happy medium can be located.. i was more fond of LS when it was a Monthly Release that allowed for other Patches and Work to be done to the game… This medium wont be found until some people who sit behind a big round desk with charts discover it is better for their wallets and share holders that Anet spend more effort on regaining and Retaining a player base with a Solid and Healthy Game vs just milking the fading Player Base with Gems and Carrots on Sticks.

Darnis.4056:

Thief is for sure the hardest fight and while the situation is ridiculous this game isn’t balanced for 1v1.

I’d like to just note from a previous Ready Up Live about Class balance goals. Mesmer is indeed only balanced around 1v1 combat… the only class balanced around just 1v1 combat as far as I can tell..

Not perfect due to the Key of the song and kind of Basic bare bones (with a flourish here and there) But after 2 weeks worth of work and tinkering…

Just Follow Along for:

“Fear Not This Night” ~Full~ (Best on Harp or Bells)

- = Note hold (half or half quarter note)

• = Quarter Rest
  / = End of Measure

107 BPM : 3/4 Time

Start on Highest Octive :

3 6 6 8 7 6 39 6 6 8 7 80 29 6/

8 7 8 8 7 8 8 70 2 19 7 6 8 7 8 8 7 8 8 70 2 19 7 6/

68 7 80 319 70 31 219 70 2 219 70 29 6 8 87 80 63 62 63 56 6 6 56- 99/

60 1 39 6 8 7 7 5 7 6 60 1 3 6 6 5 5 5 6 39/

8 8 8 7 8 7 6 7 8 7 6 5 5 7 6 8 8 8 70 1 29 6 7 8 70 1 2 19 7 60/

3 3 3 2 3 2 1 2 3 29 8 7 80 2 19 7 60 3 3 3 2 3 6 6 3 6 59 60 5 5 6 3/

5 6 7 8 7 6- 6- 6- 5 6 70 1 29 6- 6- 6-9/

60 1 39 6 8 7 7 5 7 6 60 1 3 6 8 7 7 5 7 6-6 3/

6 6 5 3 kitten - 3 5 6 6 7 8 3 kitten -/

4- 4 4 3 2 1 2- 2- 4- 5 6 4 3 1 2- 2-9/

8 8 8 7 8 7 6 7 8 7 6 5 6 7 6- 8 8 8 70 1 29 6 7 8 70 1 2 19 7 6- 0/

3 3 3 2 3 2 1 2 3 29 8 70 1 2 19 7 6-0 3 3 3 2 3 6 6 3 6 59 60 5 5 6 5/

5 6 7 8 7 6- 6- 6- 5 6 70 1 29 6- 6- 6-9/

60 1 39 6 8 7 7 5 7 6- 60 1 3 6 8 7 7 5 7 6- 6 3/

• 6 5 6 6- 6 5 6 5- 5- * 7 6 7 6 5- 7 6 8 7 6 5-/

3 5 7 3- 6 5 5 2 5 3- 3 5 70 3 6 5 5- 2 5 3-9/

3 5 7 3- 6 5 5 2 5 3- 3 5 70 3 6 5 5- 2 5 3- 39 70/

3- 3 29 7 80 2- 2-9 70 2 3- 3 4 59 7 80 2- 2-/

1-9 8 8 7 6 5 6- 6 80 2 4 29 7 5 6- 6-/

6 5 6 6 5 6 6 5 7 6 5 30 6 5 6 6 5 6 6 5 7 6 5 39/

3-0 3-9 3-0 3-9 3-0 3- 3- 3-9 13570 3

End

Enjoy and feel free to post a Fixed version if you can manage it.

Candyroxi.6473:

They released a NPC in Labyrinthine Cliff to trade blade shards for some equipment bags during Festive event.

^ this was the only “promised” other use for shards beyond the back piece… and its gone for the time being. sorry you guys somehow missed it?

WvW wise going full zerk and solo as a shatter is just asking to WP back anymore. yes you can still win provided you get the drop and surprise your target but at face on encounters your odds drop significantly.

Opponents are often Not Up-leveled and brand new to the game anymore, and a lot of the Mesmer “1 trick pony” flash show doesn’t work to give you the edge as much as it used to closer to launch or even last year.

WvW has grown int its own Fully Optimized and Min/Maxed monster and PU is the Mesmer build that falls into this category for WvW roaming. Stealth is king in a target based game, and the boons it offers are what make bunkers into bunkers, and the damage form conditions and Phantasms allow for a more passive and forgiving battle.

However be aware that people are slowly figuring PU Mesmer out as well and their effectiveness will most likely, also drop off the map given enough time (more so the condition variant).

the simple answer is don’t play shatter against thieves.

Yes, you can get lucky but not much else when it comes to target reliant AI and damage.

PU can work but Phantasm builds can as well baring that you have a Staff and a 4 second Phase retreat traited up. which requires at least 4 into Chaos and then 15 into Illusions..

Final answer and generally the best advice, don’t fight a thief 1v1 as a Shatter Mesmer.. or maybe as a Mesmer in general.

Long time player here and i’m a vet from Gw1. Nothing much special.

Looking for a TC based guild that dabbles in PvE and WvW, maybe even sPvP and RP.

Why? Several reasons.

I find myself Tired or playing the same content over and over without many guild mates to do it with.

I’d like to get back into some aspects of the game that I’ve lost interest in.

I’d like to make some new friends too..

and.. ashamedly I’m hopeful for a guild thats willing to aid in server transfer, i’m rather sick of SoR these days.

Currently I main a Mesmer, seriously regretting that choice atm, and have a Guardian i also play on from time to time. I’m a decent player and I do have a Commander tag. I also know random stuff about the lore and in game things and can answer a lot of questions.

I guess i’ll sign up, Whisper me or shoot me some ingame mail if you ever do another one of these things. I’d love to help out in some way.

If you want a control class with a lot of options, Roll a thief or Necro or Ele or Warrior or Engineer or maybe even Guardian.. honestly…

Mesmers in WvW and PvP can still use Lock down builds, but in the WvW zerg where mass stability is a thing make Control a crap shoot… additionally our single AoE control spell is also completely Random. You wont be making a difference in zerg vs zerg combat with lock downs.

PvP its more viable to go PU specially after the sword 3 fix, but its something that can still be worked to an advantage. We are not a highly requested class apart from Boon removals and Portal in higher end match ups here.. Shatters are the most optimal way to achieve this so don’t expect to be anyone first choice with lock down.

Power Block as a trait is very murky if you haven’t used it yet. Here’s what it offers.

Interrupted Skill gains 5 extra seconds of cd before it can be retried.

What it doesn’t tell you.

Interrupted Skills already get kitten cd applied to them no matter what class just interrupted it.

The interrupted skill must not be an auto attack or no CD will be applied

The interrupted skill must not be any thief weapon skill or the CD is not applied

Mesmer Interrupts are easy to chain and then all stuck on very long and inconsistent CD’s themselves.

Interrupting as a hobby is a kitten kitten ton harder than it was in Gw1 where Many skills had a 1 1/2s Cast time with a Cast Bar and a Casting Animation, in Gw2 many skills are Instant cast or under 1s Cast time with No Cast Bar and Minimal to Grandeur Animations.

Often Lock Down builds don’t aim to interrupt more than 1 or 2 key skills due to the above and use interrupts instead to set off Chaotic Interruption and Immobilize their target.

So its not a secret that Mesmer’s are balanced around 1v1 combat but the Anet team. They’ve actually stated this in the last ready up …

So, here’s the starting question and thought to kick things off..

In a game full of classes that are built to fight multiple foes, in which each game mode and option requires fighting Multiple Foes at one time, where the most optimal fighting styles are high damage to the maximum amount of foes at one time…

Why would you only have 1 class be balanced around 1v1 combat? Obviously other classes can be just as effective in a 1v1 situation with a proper build or weapon set, but why balance 1 class and give it weapons that fill this 1 design role and a core mechanic that only works in this 1 match up? It’s utilities Balanced around group play and support make sense then?

Is it a Good, or Bad idea to balance all classes off of the same standard?

Is it a good or Bad idea to then flesh out a role for that class based off that balance?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS, I know Thieves are 1v1 focused but adversely they do have the ability to use an almost purely AoE ranged weapon… even if said weapon is awful, its an option for the class.

I personally use Fraility for the vulnerable on hit. since scepter lacks vuln entirely.

You can make it work, just turn off Auto attack to avoid overwriting any Phantasms if that’s how you roll.

I’m sorry but are we really derailing this thread by using GvG..

“GvG” is not currently a regulated or support form of PvP. It’s player run preformed in the only “PvP” environment that allows for Boosters/Food/etc to also come into play in this game.

GvG is not a measuring stick for any profession, attempting to use it as such is laughable at the least.

To get back on topic, Anet i believe has stated they will not allows Profession changes along with Race changes. It conflicts too greatly with the beginning of your personal Story (text that some how cannot be changed).

blitzkrieg.2451:

Eh, skill facts such as target # counts, ranges, dmg modifications etc are added to tooltips but hardly ever reworded entirely like this would have been if it was intended by the developers. Sorry, but yes, I would judge what the skill’s intention was based on the tool-tip description – that’s why there’s a description there.

But all in all, really there’s nothing else to say … It got bug fixed, quit whining and adapt.

Not that I’m going to argue with you here Blitz but here’s were your infallible “white knight” argument and stance completely fall apart..

Taken from the Wiki’s update notes from July 1st. Important notes are bold.

Ranger

Updated skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Updated pet skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Entangle.png
Entangle: Updated the description to better match its functionality.
Signet of Renewal.png
Signet of Renewal: Added a radius skill fact.
Quicksand.png
Quicksand:
Corrected the order of condition skill facts to match similar skills.
Updated the effect for this skill when used under water to better match its area of effect.
Sun Spirit.png
Sun Spirit: Fixed the description of the spirit buff to remove the might on hit chance.
Winter’s Bite.png
Winter’s Bite: Fixed the description and icon of the pet buff to better match its skill functionality.
Drake:
Bite (drake).png
Bite: Updated the animation to be a bite attack instead of a tail whip when under water.
Coral Shot.png
Coral Shot: Added a pierces skill fact.

I’ll just leave this here.

And, if you were still confused..

TL;DR
Your argument is now invalid, carry on Fay.

DaShi.1368:

Had they “fixed” this bug at release, we could have had the discussion of how awful iLeap is over a year ago.

actually we had this discussion before Launch… when it wasn’t working..

This is mostly a Tip of the hat to the forum and in game community of Mesmer’s. And after a long day of work and sitting on my hands, I feel like I need to write this up for all of you.

be it your main, your alt, your mule.. whatever….

I’d like to thank all of you for fostering one of the Healthier and more close nit groups here on the forums and for contributing to the discussions around the class. Be it posting the next Meta build or simply conversing on a topic and sharing opinions.

Together we all struggle through this game and I can honestly say that the success of the Mesmer class thus far is Due to all of you.

Through a lot of thought and understanding this community has discovered ways to make the class strong despite its flaws. Working around bugs in what is arguably the most bugged and least kept Class in this game isn’t easy and yet somehow there’s always a build out there that barely lets us hang on to the tails of the other classes.

Playing with builds after every nerf and new bug or bug fix, finding ways to maintain a presence in other players eyes that demands further Nerfs to bring us “into line”…

It’s really been impressive guys and gals.. really it has..

So, with the disheartened sigh i great the loading sound of the client with every day now, I still can’t help but click that Character window a little defiantly and start playing on my Mesmer.
I and you.. all of us.. have made the Mesmer class something Playable despite every new patch.. We don’t have Anet to thank for anything at this point anymore.. It’s just us.

So I tip my hat to you all.

Specially to those who will continue to help and foster the little we can from the messes others create.

_

We’re not the Masters of Causing Chaos. We are the ones who find Control in the Chaos. We are Mesmer’s…

~Keep it Clean~

PS – if none of this makes sense it’s because I’m tired as a kitten..

PPS – spell check tries to make “after” without the “e” into fart.. thought you should all know that as well.

I’ll vote for none of the above, nor below baring that it’s similar to the following…

I’d just prefer Anet take Mesmers down for 3 or 7 months after LS2 and redo the entire class… redo and re-code every last aspect of it… using every team and resource they have available to them.

Or,

I’ll vote that Anet add the Bard for real as a Class and i’ll just go play that if its based off of anything similar to the D&D ones… I feel that would probably be a better mesmer than what I currently Log into.

I’d Argue that Carrion does have a bit of weight in some situations. Mostly on Staff where Fury is a thing and a 14% crit rate turns into a 34% crit rate. I haven’t checked to see if this effects clones after the fact but it’s still a thought.

I’d also note that with Melendru Runes, Carrion offers my build better survivability in sPvP matches against many classes and builds over Rabid. Sure toughness is nice but it doesn’t shave that much more off the 1-8k Hits I take. Rabid also offers less Health to buffer conditions which means you end up in kitten a lot faster with what can be considered less time and or less conditions.

However I do end up with less vigor if I am not careful and don’t end up on my staff for a fight. This’ll be more of an issue now with the sword nerf…

Personally I’ll just say use what works the best for you and if you have fun then great. Numbers are only numbers until you get fun out of them.

if you’re still having fun as a mesmer, let us know your secret tho.

I suppose due to the running trend here..

The real question and effort should not be complaining about the bug fix and how its taken away something nice.

Rather, I submit, What other Nice things do mesmers have/do that Anet has in the cross hairs next?

Powerblock bug – was nice for half a week.

iLeap – Bugged for nearly 2 years was nice to have.

iWarden – Bugged for about a year, attacked and reflected reliably but didnt move, was nice in retrospect.

Staff – Nearly Universal CD increase to all skills, was nice for about 2 and a half months after launch

Sword MH – Was Nice now is not.

Torch – Was nicer till the Retal/Confusion Changes and Prestige fixes.

etc.. etc..

I suppose We should just revert to Starter status and just pick up a Scepter and drop our Offhands.. seems to be the direction Anet wants to take the class anyway..

Personally, i’ll keep playing for a while I’d like to see where anet goes with LS2 and how they handle the game with NCsoft focusing on the new baby and the China release over and done with.

Do I have any expectations for Gw2 that involve improvement of my favorite Class? Improvements on core mechanics and game play and the core game? No, none. zero..

I’m personally looking at Wildstar and the Esper class and contemplating giving it a go. when i have the funds for a P2P MMO.

It’s sad really.. it took a Buy once play forever free game to inspire me to look into Pay to Play that I’ve disregarded for so long…

If anyone out there is aware of, or is playing a game where there is a Mesmer type of class (bard/illusionist/CC specialist) Please hit me up on the forums or in game (if you still play). I’d love some options.

Maybe when Gw3 hits shelves Anet can do Mesmers some justice or just remove them entirely from the game like my old favorite (Monk) so I can just move on..

Mesmer:

Fixed an issue in which the number of targets skill fact would not appear for various skills when certain traits were equipped.
Spinning Revenge: Fixed an issue that caused the clone created by this skill to use a version of Siren’s Call that did not apply boons to allies.
Mimic: Fixed a bug that caused the underwater channel for this skill to be shorter than the land channel.
Masterful Reflection: Added reflection skill facts to all signets when traited with Blurred Inscriptions.
Illusionary Leap: Fixed a bug that allowed players to swap places with their clone after it was destroyed.

personally i enjoy that Anet Fixed the bug where Far reaching manipulations would reduce a CD on AT… 4 times.. in a row..

Tbh i’d be more open to Anet just taking the class out of the game for 3 months and redoing it Entirely vs waiting till year 4 just to have the bug pile we have now, fixed..

I could dink around on a necro or guardian for that long and maybe enjoy it.

Specifically Gambits.

Bug: Running with full gambits – All 6 and completeing a successful match rewards only 6 bags.

Expectation: Using full Gambits takes 7 tickets and rewards 7 Bags
Reality : Using Full Gambits Takes 7 tickets and rewards 6 bags

Pretty easy to Reproduce.

Heres the build i’ve used.

Mesmer:
GreatSword:
Heal: Sig of Ether
Utilities: Blink – Sig of Domination – Mirror Images
Elite: Your choice

Traits;
4/ III – X
4/ II – VIII
0/
2/ VI
4/ III – X

How To~
Fight Doobroosh (the quaggan)

Start with Mirror Images then iZerker back to back
Run/strafe left or right
Use iWave to push back – keep running
Use Blink to gain distance after he gets close again
Use iZerker (should be recharged by this point)
Use Sig of Ether and then iZerker again

Keep running till he dies

Takes about 35~ seconds.

Don’t care too much about my lost tickets at this point but I thought you guys should know its an issue so you can Maybe get around to fixing it next year after you bring the pavilion back..

Inspired me to post something here, and btw when its comes to Gw1 balance practices..

Smiters Boon

that’s all that really needs to be said.. specially for someone who did used to play a fair bit of PvP as a monk.. Anyway.

When it comes to core systems, I think the “Living world” and Living Story concepts are equally in need of an overhaul.

The concept and potential of a living world, based off of the Gw2 Manifesto was that the world would change and reflect your deeds as you played. Gw2 at current, barely manages this. Only through heart quests.

That village can be taken over by centaurs or can be saved from the attack sure, thats kind of living, its a multiple outcome. But that same event replays the same way in the same set interval in the same spot… regardless of how many times its failed or won the world never changes. Players deeds can give the illusion of a living world given that you as a player never ever look back, back track, or revisit a location in game. Its on rails and it does not evolve, and Anet puts no effort into tracking mechanics based on player interaction to alter this world.

And this ties into the Living Story.

The story is not living either. It’s on rails and the outcome is dictated by Anet and holds no bases on what the Players do during it. Yes Season 1 altered the world… slightly… but honestly we have no huge repercussions or dramatic sense that the world has been changed forever. Sure, point at Kessex and LA but i can point you to the rest of the game. Over half of Kessex continues on its same fixed loops with not a thought nor bother to the fact that there was a tower of evil and poison a short jog away. No NPC outside of LS relevant characters is upset over the loss of the biggest port in Kryta.

I understand as a realist that its outlandish to demand that Anet put more care and “have the balls” to rock our world and shake things up all the time into developing a World that changes with player actions and a Story set inside of it that can alter more than some map textures and geometry (and break hearts and skill points).

If i can give an example of how I feel it should be..

Centaurs Fail consistently at capturing Human Outpost X for 2 months (Real time)
Centaurs fall back and meet at a lower camp – players can now disrupt this meeting (omg new event)
Centaurs are often left alone for a Month – Outcome A
Centaurs are Often disrupted for a month – Outcome B

Outcome A – Centaurs move on the outpost with siege and new tactics from a new direction.
Outcome B – Centaurs are Demoralized and move from this Map to another and are replaced by a New Creature/foe.

Living Story has a Tower built in the Map earlier on – Some centaurs split into a friendly Faction in common interest of not dieing. Honestly whats the point of capturing a town when its sitting on poisonous and wasted lands that are of no use and not habitable by any race?

Tower Falls – Some centaurs are swayed to remain peaceful – shakey peace talks start with the queen.

These things don’t need 4 paragraph Blog posts to bring our attention to them, they dont need 70 achievement points to benefit the players, because Giving us a world in which all our compiled actions matter makes the experience more Binding and immerse for everyone.

I feel this was the original intent of LS when Southsun was presented and the karka attacked. I also feel like having one large ONE TIME ONLY event was a Good thing.

I liked that story, i liked the connection i felt with random strangers as we pushed the karka back together all knowing that this event was shared and was not repeatable.

I didn’t like that Gw2 was in such a state that the event was crippled by the server limitations and optimization limitations, and the lag was terrible. I feel bad for those that missed the fights and the ending. But the Dead Karka still sits there at the lava pit, as a reminder and semi-monument to the triumph of the blob-o-death zerg of heroes, even for those that did not play that day or started playing later on, its still there that we had an experience that really felt like changing the world.

Tl;dr version
“Living world” should not equate to never evolving and minimalistic impact.
Living Story Should not equate to something that clearly holds no real impact upon the world. It should be a catalyst to direct players actions to further change the world.

Not many good arguments as to Stealth having counters in this thread I see.. Tho so many of you are so adamant that it does.

Stealth – Target Peeling, Untargetable, Unseeable by Foe,
Hard Counter to: LoS Dependent anything. Target Dependent Anything.
Softer Counter to: Ground Targeted anything.

Counter By… Time?

No, Stealth as a whole has no soft or hard counter.

The professions that abuse it, themselves have counters. Thieves are often squishy so if you do fight a poorer thief you can sometimes get lucky if you spam AoE cleaves or Spells if your class is lucky enough to have those things and still kill them. A better thief this works much less well on.

Marks, Ground AoE, Traps are counters to Player Movement, not stealth, anyone can set these off and its not their intended use.

Mesmers that use Stealth also have counters… to the Profession itself and its mechanics that it is forced to use. Phantasms, Clones etc.. AoE Damage is much more effective here not because it hits something stealthed, but because it removes the mesmers ability to do damage.

I can still hurt an Invulnerable Target with conditions i placed on it guys, that’s a counter in some sense of the Term, and at least i can see that it’s happening.

I’ve made similar posts to this before and while i support the idea, I do feel it needs to stay More simplistic than adding 2 3 or 4 more entirely new, what are basically, trait tree’s to deal with. It’s going a bit too far at that point.

I’m a veteran player of Gw1 and Gw2, and while i enjoyed the Dual Class system from Gw1 it made balance a nightmare. at the end of it all we had 10 professions, each with about 60-120 skills each that could be combined in any way. Admittedly Gw2 would be far easier to balance as we only have about 20 skills per profession… Get on that Anet.. It’s still not a good fit for Gw2. Combat works differently and a similar system doesn’t promote diversity if you allow sub classes to just absorb skills or “similar to” abilities. All this does is create a void where in 1 profession is better at X and the copy is never played because it does nothing better.

I’ll agree with you on the point that a Subclass system inherently needs a “Trade off” system, something that gw2 currently lacks on a massive scale… Want to go tank? be prepared to lose your bursts and a chunk of damage and crits for that toughness and health. Be prepared to be UNABLE to make up for that loss with an armor and weapon and trinket set as well. Want to go Full zerk? Trade in your health, toughness and self defense in general.. etc..

Sadly Trade offs on that scale would force anet to reintroduce something to the game. Something anet doesn’t really want in their new MSO (Massively solo online) which is a reason and need to find a team to play with. Healing Power, Conditions, Boons, CC, Enemy AI, Combo Fields, Profession Mechanics, Event Mechanics, NPC AI, Animations for Player Characters, these are all things Anet would have to spend a ton of time on and Gut and redo many of them.. Just to make Gw2 into an MMO where you can have Sub Classes that can Specialize into a Role and still have it make sense to be ANYTHING but the Zerker.

As it stands right now, Anet is much happier in its current Direction where in all but maybe 4 or 5 designers, artists, and coders, and the 2 man balance team, are stuck working on Living Story Content. As open to the Idea and suggestion someone at Anet might be, Remember not to make it overtly complex or something that would require work from more than … lets say 2 people.. to accomplish. Anything else seems to be Off the Table for Anet.

So..

• Traits – responsible for direct Skill Changes of Weapon/Utility/Healing/Elite-Skills
• Talents – responsible for passive offensive/defensive Character Effects
• Abilities – responsible for indirect constant Character Effects
  * Knowledges – responsible for Skill Animation Changes and passive Background Boosts for the Character, like dealing Extra Damage towards a specific Creature Type

Keep Traits – this system works pretty well as it stands.. some classes have it better than others but hey..

Maybe Keep Talents- But IMO, rather than creating a second tree under the first tree, just role this back and create an entirely new Trait/Skill tree for a Sub Class. Change the Mechanic, disable and replace some skills, add the inherent gains/losses of the sub class and leave the rest up to the trait lines.

Ditch Abilites and Role it into Profession Mechanics under the old trait and skill system, add some Signets = no need for an extra tree.

Knowledges – Cute idea for those that Play PvE only, Ultimately something you’d want on a Wish list considering the Animations part listed. You can scrap this as well.

judging from LS1

1 New lvl 80 map
1 New Dungeon
1 new path to an old dungeon
2 Changed Maps
2 Temp dungeons that will later be in fractals
1 New enigmatic and unrelatable and impenetrable Villain to “battle” against.
A truck load of new Mini’s and Back pieces. Maybe a few shoulder armor parts.

Peppering of Story with Rewrites on old Lore and current Lore, a lot of new bugs and a lot of neglect to WvW, sPvP and existing Bugs and problems.

Carrots on Sticks to chase still leaving the community hungry and upset and disappointed when its all over.

TL;DR

Nothing Game changing or of any real weight in the long term.

…

I really hope I’m wrong but Anets gonna have to prove it to me.

So I’m honestly just curious.

What was the Legacy of LS1 and Scarlet Briar? Not the Story or the Areas or the Dungeons or the Changes to LA.. no not those things.

What was the REAL legacy of destruction that LS1 one caused? You know, the one Behind the curtain in the Anet office.

What Skins never got to see the light of day or were delayed?
What new events were scrapped?
New skills?
New traits?
New rewards?
New ideas?
New fixes?
New Balances?
New game modes?

I’m sure no one from Anet can honestly answer, But what about you guys. What do you think the true cost/legacy of LS1 was? and do you think Anet has learned anything from it to help avoid a second year and a half long neglect of every other aspect of the game?

New traits as a whole are just Traits you Take when your build doesn’t make better use of the Good traits in the line.

Power Block is ok.
BD is meh to ok.. if you can’t get use out of PU
MtD is meh if you don’t like IP and more Direct damage that it brings.

The other two.. Dont bother. Massive wastes of time or gold and sp to acquire.

It’s funny when I worked on a write up for a CDI for weeks and none of you so much as made a post, but this is enough for you all to start throwing ideas around like Anet will listen..

You wanna fix mesmer for Gw2? You go back to the drawing board at this point. Anet has a terrible design Idea behind them that’s not only extremely vague but goes face first into the wall of “Things we don’t want to have in our game or balance around in our game” .

Illusions, its a neat idea. it would be fun to have 1 per weapon and maybe the rest be tied to utilities and then Have our shatters removed and replaced with something else.

It would be neat if we didn’t have neutered damage because there is a Possibility that we might maybe sometimes have 1 or 2 phantasms out.

It would be nice if most of our traits worked and didn’t take 5 patches to “fix” the same bug..

It would be nice to Play a completely different Mesmer in this game.

But I’ve given up hope of Anet ever looking this direction and Reassessing the kitten ups they’ve made. This is the game we get, this is the class we get, these are the problems we must deal with and work around EVERY DAY just to play it…

But onward with Scarlet’s Legacy (which is the neglect of EVERY other part of the game) Cause that’s what Anet says is best for the game.

Not fair IMO but I’m sure Anet will tell you its perfectly balanced and designed this way.

we all know what they think a strength and weakness for our class is….

Except Mesmer’s don’t get F4 for free, even with IP its a MAX of 4 seconds… which prevents Capture Contribution. and even with 30 trait points its recharge is still above 40s nearly 90 if you don’t trait for it at all.

Except Mesmer’s Don’t have stability.. We have one utility skill that provides this boon.. one.. and its duration is about 2 seconds on a 2 1/2 CD and after a second use.. like a 40 second CD..

Except.. Anyone else, while Invulnerable, Cannot capture a point in PvP…

Warriors, just like anyone else, Can ALSO gain some of those utilities you “use up” from traits like they’re candy.

It’s not balanced, its unfair like many things the class gets to have and do vs others. Yes they’re only partial Immunities but no one else gets a free ride here.

Bezagron.7352:

Stealth

What I would look at is if a skill is interrupted then that skill has an interrupt cooldown applied. So even if the skill has no cooldown if interrupted it would now have an interrupt cooldown that must recharge before this skill can be used again.

Sadly on this point it does not matter what players think at all. Mesmer’s new trait “Power Block” was doing exactly this to thieves.. and many other things it shouldn’t have been doing it to but that’s another discussion… And Anet reacted accordingly. Fix the bug, keep thieves spamming skills.

While I do think thieves get a lot of flack that is undue, I also feel that this profession, much like warrior, Receives this because it is such an amalgamation of what I consider, Poor Planning and Poor development on top of Poor Design.

Stealth as of current for thieves means, ontop of Targeting removal, High Potential for Large, and often, easy damage.

Due to other class traits and runes stealth also allows for other types of abuse of mechanics. for example, positioning behind/beside a foe for Extra damage.

Low risk, As you said, revealed comes after a successful hit, not from an evade, miss, or block. Even tho the target can tell when they have denied a thief a hit, they still cant be sure of its exact position until stealth wears off or they land the blow.

Low risk on initiative, Openers from stealth carry little to 0 use of initiative and are easily spammed. there’s no harm in missing one two or 3 times with a back stab.

Initiative is basically an old school Gw1 Energy Bar with extra perks, also traits can reduce its usage, increase its Regen, etc.. It also means No cool downs and minute “cast times”.

Initiative as a internal CD mechanic also, according to Anet, means a Free pass to Conditions or boons that completely destroy or cripple all other classes, such as interrupts, chill, blind, aegis, etc… many thing still effect their utility skills but many of these have, similar to weapons, tiny activation windows with moderate CD’s on them.

Extreme Mobility, both inside combat and outside of Combat. This includes Evades, Teleports, Movement Speed, Gap Closers (btw, Heart Seeker aka Dagger2 movement is not hampered by chill or cripple as far as i am aware), Gap openers, etc..

Thieves also suffer from Glass-or-Go-Homer-Itus where in it’s extremely non-viable for them to do anything but go full Zerk and hope for the best.

The above all combined together with CC on many weapon sets means that Thieves can often Spam CC and deal large amounts of Damage at the same time.

I’m not saying that they need to be nerfed into the ground.. anyway..

Boons/Conditions as a whole.

I think Anet did a decent job of simplifying the Gw1 piles but perhaps they over simplified it..

Boons and Conditions as they stand now.

Some are in a better place than others, some need a Buff or Nerf and a few just need a Redo (Confusion/retaliation/stealth come to mind instantly for me)

Improvements.

Off the top of my head, we could do with some more conditions being added as well as boons. We could do with less hard counters in conditions vs the very soft counters found in Boons. Anet could also take a second or 15th look at how conditions could be managed in all game formats..

for instance if all conditions applied stacked duration and conditions from Multiple Players stacked ontop of one another i think we could find a much nicer place for more than 1 condition heavy member per team. (bleed would have to be buffed slightly and ultimately if you still get 25 stacks of bleed, even today, it probably means you are already or about to die from the pile of players targeting you)

this needs another bump after the ready up

Official design: Access to key utility skills. Gain defense through stealth, evasion, misdirection. Strong 1v1 ranged damage dealer but weaker in sustained AoE damage. Weakness – conditional removal, sustainability if illusions are countered, AoE damage make it hard to sustain illusions.

Let me break this down for you

Access to unique Utility Skills like Portal or Null Field or uhmm.. well i cant think of anything else very unique here

Gain defense through : A broken Mechanic that is easy to abuse. Or dodging Or Stealth oh wait sorry misdirection meant when people mistake your clones for you.. cause that happens a lot.. ya know.. only when you use stealth.. So yeah we’ll just call that Stealth x2 plus dodges.. So we’re a light armor Thief?

Strong 1v1 Ranged damage dealer.. Sure on GS and maybe a condition Staff. Sword is very close range, scepter is a mid ranged and last i checked Anet doesn’t like to Balance around 1v1 …. or do they?

Weaker in Sustained aoe – very true. We have 1 weapon with 2 cleave attacks, 1 with a tiny aoe and a cone push, and one with a larger aoe. then we can add 2 shatters thats 1 2… 7 AoE’s across the whole of the class. Thats not really weaker sustained.. that’s just a weakness at this point.

Weaknesses
Conditions – Hit the nail on the head. we dont have many ways that are good to get rid of these unless you run that one build that uses all that stealth stuff..

Sustainability if illusions are countered.. lets just lump these last to together and call it Your weakness is your Classes Core Mechanic and call it a day shall we?

I’m not amused with Anet anymore, I’m tired of the endless river of empty promises and Extremely poor management of assets and the inconsistent direction of the game as a whole.

Wyrden.4713:

is anyone actually using power block atm? if so, could u link ur build

i never rly met anyone using it yet, and i just wonder atm if someone even using it

if no1 is using it, i got an idea of improving it for pve.. honestly i dont pve much myself but still would like to see that:

how about making it ignore stability and defiance ?

You mean you want it to do exactly what it was doing before anet Hotfixed it do to exactly this happening?

just get rid of the extra 5 s cooldown on interrupt and add that, it wouldnt even be that strong cause if u go30 in top line, u either have to choose between 15 in illusions for summoning illusions cd, or deceptive evasion , chaotic interruption , u will lack clone regen or a real lockdown for pvp, so it would nowhere be overpowered

thats all~

its not hard to run 6 into Dom and still bring a CRAP TON of Lock Down/Stun/Daze skills to the field. This skill ignoring the “rules” set up by anet when it went Live were wonderful times for a mesmer. Putting thieves skills on CD , Res and Stomps on a CD, Ignoring Stability, defiance, etc…

And it was exactly this wonderful bug that made Anet turn around and do the fastest bug fix to date on our class, returning the skill to its intended level of general uselessness in the Meta.

This was like not even 2 months ago.. its amazing how quickly people forget.

I run a build thats somewhat similar, tho its a modified Shatter with IP.

Staff is good for Condition Pressure all on its own but Sword/X or GS can pile ontop of that pretty quick and really do some damage. My bonus is consistent Confusion Spam/upkeep that makes battles quickly go downhill for a target.

Only issue is that it takes a little time to Get into gear and really start hurting so some opponents can be harder to deal with than others.

interesting Idea except that this only really encourages groups to “CC” away defiance and then refrain from using any forms of CC to maintain an advantage for the remainder of the fight.

You’d still need to change the way Defiance is applied/removed and add “cool down” periods in between, or something similar to really change how players and combat work with the buff.

i’m not going to argue the issues with defiant with you in this thread, thats not what we’re here for.

It would be a much better mechanic if it were only active during certain attacks and not persistent on top of a -duration that is also persistent. ie then CC would require skillful play to remove x stacks and interrupt the attack rather than remove stacks and then wait.

but let’s get back on topic.

maha.7902:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IaySIyZh4o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1r1bfmoI4E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBtFWy-ccTk

three videos from 1 subset of pve play does not a strong argument make..

i’m speaking in wider “game as a whole” terms, not in organized teams/guild dungeon runs terms.

So what would i like the Professions to be..
Not where they are now, I couldn’t really pin them all down as i Don’t play all of them. But I do play mesmer a lot.

I would like to see the Mesmer:

Gain more situation Damage and Control that is not subject to traditional Core R/P/S play. Things such a greater Damage when target has/lacks boons tied to traits. Targets take damage on boon/condition removal. Target suffers inverse effects of Boons/Conditions. etc..

See clones/phantasms altered to be a Useful but not Obtusely Defining mechanic for the class. Grant them triggers to explode when foe does X or Y.. give them Auras that create chaos on the battle field and strike fear into anyone about to join the fight. Stop attempting to Fix them and actually Fix the bugs associated with them.

See the classes Traits realigned and many of them Redone to allow for Diversity as a whole, not just Diversity of things you can do with your clones with a light peppering of things you can do while your illusions do all the work.

I’d like to see the class be balanced by diversity where in bringing the wrong build to a fight means that you will be a hindrance or in trouble until you can find a way to leverage the situation. Weakness in its own strengths if you will.

I’d like to see the Classes “Kryptonite” be Defensive/Smart/Organized Play by a foe. If the CC/Punishment is out played by tactics or a build that your build is not made to punish, you were out played, that should be your greatest weakness.

Not being able to Counter EVERYTHING at ALL TIMES.

Now my arm has fallen asleep, and i’ve run out of things to say.
GL on the Stream guys.