Guild Wars 2

I played with tempest and while it lacks compared to d/d cele ele it isn’t that bad.

I went D/W and I could last pretty good in team fights with pretty good damage. I really enjoyed overloading my Air attunement on side points

My imput

Staff: The animations are bad. Let’s clean this up. Skill 2 needs to home in on target or needs to be more like the whirl attack from warrior GS. The 4 skill needs to be sped up just a bit to reliably avoid damage. Vault the 5 skill needs to lose the extra flip in air so it can land a bit faster. currently if you stealth attack and go into a vault they have too much time to avoid it….infact they can literally wait out the knock down then dodge.

Traits: The dodges all have a delay and need to be cleaned up. We need these to flow like normal dodge roll. Also fix all the bugs that have been mention previously. The cleanse condi on evade needs to be upped to 2 condi’s.

Utility skills: Well these need LOTS of work. Palm strike needs to have a small charge to it for it to land. Currently its a waste of a skill due to the extreme difficulty landing it. Impairing daggers and Distracting daggers need to have their LoS restrictions removed. We are high dexterity thieves and spinning to throw daggers behind us shouldn’t be a problem. I would also look into increasing the duration of impairing daggers to 30ish seconds.

Overall I like the concept of the Daredevil spec. The problem is it’s not ready for live at this time. Staff needs some serious rework because I find it bad that S/X out performs Staff in every way. I’m also depressed that S/P will prolly be the strongest set that utilizes DD……

Don’t agree because we need to see how broken some of this kitten really,is

Solori.6025:

T raw.4658:

Cele necro is indeed OP. If you think it is not please tell me which meta build counters it?

Hammer/gs warrior
Decap Engi
LB ranger
Cele ele matchup is 50/50
Interrupt mesmer

Meta

Throw gunk on side point vs engis is a win.

kolompi.1287:

sinject.4607:

Amante.8109:

sinject.4607:

honestly last time celestial was a the issue (ele/engie/war) i was all for nerfing the professions using them instead of the amulet itself. at this point, i just want to see the amulet removed entirely. nothing good has ever come from it, it’s been by far the most corrosive thing in pvp for years now and has only lead to overpowered builds that completely dominate and shape the meta for all the worse. it should be abundantly clear by now that an amulet that has 30% more stats than all others will never be balanced when there’s builds that are capable utilizing every one of those stats. it’s just basic math.

THIS. It’s a badly designed amulet with very binary usage. Either it’s useless for your build, or insanely overpowered (D/D Ele)

while celestial d/d ele is undoubtedly the posterchild for overpowered cele builds, people shouldn’t forget celestial necro. celestial necro is in the same tier as mesmer right now, and just like mesmer, is in need of some surgical nerfs to bring it in line.

And i think thief needs some surgical nerfs to bring it in line. Especially to their ability to blind, disengage and a little bit of damage shaved off.

See? I can play the stupid classism game too.

Actually you can’t because if your losing 1v1 to a thief on anything it’s a l2p issue on your part.

Cele necro is indeed OP. If you think it is not please tell me which meta build counters it?

Ithilwen.1529:

I must admit, whenever I hear that the devs are talking about balance I expect my beloved Mesmer to be nerfed very heavily. Please don’t hit Mesmer again. Every time the game is updated I quick look to see if I’ve been crippled.

The way to control Ele power would be to increase the cooldown on Elemental Attunement swaps. This would not require a major rework to any traits.

edit; I can beat the average d/d Ele on Mesmer. Conditions are the key, especially confusion and daze.

Mesmer about to get kitten d with the bat. Expect PU to get it good

Josh Davis.6015:

T raw.4658:

Josh Davis.6015:

As a note, we’re aware of the odd interaction between elementalist downstate and Vampirism runes and are tracking a fix for an upcoming build.

What about the Overpowered interaction of stack 4 eles?

I believe 4 class stacking is against ESL rules. As for the elementalist itself, we’re looking into it.

Good to hear thx for the reply

Bubi.5237:

Josh Davis.6015:

Edit: Also, just because this is an elementalist thread doesn’t mean we’re only looking at elementalist, and it also doesn’t mean we’re only looking at doing nerfs.

I think they’ll nerf necro thief and buff ele.

Fixed for accuracy since thief actually carried those 4 eles to ESL victory

Josh Davis.6015:

As a note, we’re aware of the odd interaction between elementalist downstate and Vampirism runes and are tracking a fix for an upcoming build.

What about the Overpowered interaction of stack 4 eles?

Use haste profit.

You can rack off 2x PW’S for your spike.

If 4 init for 2k damage is OP then I dunno wtf to tell ya

DD will inevitably get nerfed since it’s a thief.

That’s definitely going to happen but they need OP kitten to move boxes….

Time to get over it. The possibilities with this spec are greater than what we’ve ever had.

ZvolTx.3165:

I think it’s funny how there are people saying s/p is easy or takes no skill. Against new players? Sure, but so is anything else. Against good players it’s easy? Lolno. Sorry but it’s far from “press 3 to win”, especially considering that 3 on d/p carries it just as significantly if not moreso. A thief playing s/p and doing well deserves far more props than a thief using d/p and doing well, d/p is by far the lowest skill requirement build thief has with incredibly high reward for the low amount of risk.

What part of S/P requires skill?

BlackBeard.2873:

T raw.4658:

FYI Your class is gonna get gutted unless you pony up and start throwing out some good ideas to strike a real balance.

Hahahaha, thinking that player opinion on the ele forums has any effect on what the devs do with eles. That inherently assumes they even READ these forums. Good joke.

When ESL is now actively restricting class stacking due to Ele pretty much guarantees anets attention

Uhh let them play WvW just make them goto lower pop servers is all.

There are only 3 servers left who care about PPT in NA….the top 3

I thought I was gonna read

“Only 2 cele-ele per Team”

Disappointed now

I’ll run tempest no problem. Can’t wait to get my hands on the spec.

CETheLucid.3964:

Valento.9852:

• Nerfing burning damage and celestial amulet (sPvP-related) won’t do any good. There’s a new class incoming, and several elite specs. The OP issue lies in the D/D composition, plus our traits which strengthen it too much.

What I read: Don’t nerf burning and celestial stats for other classes, just nerf DD ele. What if burning damage and the cele amulet are a problem?

Valento.9852:

• There should be a consensus for what is broken weapon-wise: offhand dagger, or mainhand dagger? We know that having both in hands makes eles OP for many situations, and it’s difficult to counter.

First we’d have to agree that daggers for ele are broken. We don’t. They’re not.

Valento.9852:

We should not be able to overwhelm in every single aspect: survivability, control, and damage (direct + condition).

We agree on this much, and I can honestly tell you DD does not reign supreme in all of these aspects.

Valento.9852:

• We should also analyze 1v1 against most common builds from other classes.

1v1 doesn’t mean much in regards to class balance.

Valento.9852:

• We should take into account Revenant + Mallyx legend and its ability to be severly boon-hate, paired with some other potential class we could be pwned for good, unless we drop a spec for Earth.

Boon hate is a hard counter for ele, yes. Necro’s are getting more and we’re getting a new class that can spam it.

But DD needs a nerf, right?

Fighting tooth and nail to keep dat OPness going.

FYI Your class is gonna get gutted unless you pony up and start throwing out some good ideas to strike a real balance.

Ladies and Gents we have all discovered the secret to beating that new 4 ele meta!!!

Gratz lets all breath a sigh of relief now that Helseth can win ESL again!!

Can’t tell yet after September 4th

Mizu.4508:

I have more trouble fighting Dire Guardians then Celes right now. Applying tons of burning and are extremely tanky, they’re my biggest annoyance right now in PvP.

I dont think you are telling the truth here…..

The QQ will erupt Sept 4th 2015.

My fist elite finish will be satisfyingly delicious

It’s been some time since the nerf thief threads have been gone.

CheezeStix.1076:

Roxanne.6140:

guess who won?

Okay, I’ll bite… looking at that pic you were on the red team, you guys had two Elementalists (you being one of them running pretty much the standard Celestial d/d) and you lost. I’m assuming you’re saying that Elementalist is not OP.

I’ll get this out of the way, Rangers and Thieves are not OP.

Looking at your previous posts you seem to think Elementalist is balanced. You also said that Celestial Elementalists weren’t very good before the patch (that was posted three hours before I started typing this reply) so I’m assuming you’re talking about the patch in late June.

Before the patch that happened in June the three classes that dominated PvP were Elementalists, Warriors and Engineers. Thieves were also part of the meta due to their mobility but I don’t think anyone would say they were OP, yet you still had trouble against Thieves and you almost quit GW2. You realize you were playing one of the top three classes at the time and that still made you want to quit GW2 because you thought Elementalists were bad.

Come late June, the patch drops. Celestial is out of the meta for Engineers and Warriors but Celestial is still viable for Elementalists and also for Necromancers now. Now instead of having three classes dominating the PvP scene you’ve got just one. Now that Elementalist is the only one that didn’t get nerfed in the patch you think they’re balanced. Your class had to transcend to an unkillable god status for you to think that your class is finally balanced.

Another post by you from one month ago said that you didn’t think d/d Elementalists had good damage. Are you expecting Elementalists to hit as hard as Thieves while also keeping their sustain?

A post from four months ago (Elementalists were not terrible four months ago) of you saying that Elementalists can’t win a 1v1 against Warriors, Guardians, Necromancers and Thieves, no matter what build the Elementalist is running. Followed by you saying that the people that upload videos of Elementalists winning 1v1s are doing so because it’s funny and rare for an Elementalist to win a duel.

You’re like those people in Dota who complain about being at 2k MMR and think they should be at 7k but instead of getting better they blame everyone and everything else around them.

TL;DR You’re bad at the game or a really dedicated troll.

Aside: It would be funny if I misinterpreted your pic and this post was for nothing.

Rekt on all fronts…..please dont infract

The amount of poor ele this and poor ele that stuff that goes on in here is absurd. The,weeks leading up to the big balance patch I read ALOT of ele gonna be trash tier….now we are seeing 4 man ele teams win tournaments.

I’m guessing tempest will be absolutely broken OP as all things ele are.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Cynz.9437:

I bet if thieves were as broken and versatile they would get nerfed within 2 days.

All they need to do is nerf defensive traits from fire line and reduce stats on celestial amy. But nah, let’s completely ignore elephant in the room.

Unlike eles, thieves have more than 1 spec though. Eles ONLY HAVE CELE DD. Always only had that. Nerf that into oblivion and ele vanishes from the game, like it ALREADY DID FOR A WHOLE YEAR.

Eles needs a complete rework on their defense, moving it away from traits (where the combination is OP) into weapons and utilities.

Wait what???

Thieves have more than 1 spec?? That’s news to the rest of the GW2 world…..

Eles have more than one spec. The problem is they aren’t as OP as dd cele. Staff ele is a legit spec, and that df isn’t a slouch either.

I think you might wanna have another go at this one

Links to video?

Lokheit.7943:

T raw.4658:

I’m all for build diversity but (I’m gonna generate some hate here) I want to keep the thief a class that relies on the skill of the player.

I’m sorry but let’s face it…S/P and P/P do not. I cringed every time I saw high level play with a S/P thief in it in the past.

S/P: Pistol whip is why this set requires minimal skill to play. Literally 1 PW can down a zerker class or get them to extremely low health. The fact you get a stun and evade frames is just icing on the cake. Before anyone says the wind up is an easy tell remember we are all thieves here and understand all the tricks used. Now we are adding on demand stealth which makes your PW’s even easier to land……

P/P: Again the 3 skill is the culprit, and all I really have to say is we can compare it to LB ranger skill level….

Now don’t get me wrong I’ve ran these sets and have enjoyed running these sets, but I do understand what they are. Heck I even have a my wardrobe set up picked out for running P/P gun slinging face stomper….but I realize that it needs to stay niche + not meta.

Well, with the new leap trait both builds will require more skill than pressing 33333 non stop.

No they will require even less skill due to an easier disengage.

Now with a reliable disengage you can use the noob friendly bursting of these sets.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Archaon.9524:

TheLastNobody.8319:

I would feel realllly bad if I was an Ele right now, it’s going to be a long hard fall when they do get the right nerfs.

yeah, they’re too used to ez wins and they’re gonna fall really hard…and i’m gonna be there watching them failing once their totally broken spec won’t carry them anymore

with a glass of good wine and a big satisfied smile

Yes, let’s completely insult everyone who played elementalist prior to the 15th April 2014 patch that brought a boatload of buffs to the PvP elementalist. Some people just stick to a class whether or not it’s meta since it’s the class they enjoy.

Eles have always been fine it’s just the players feel entitled to being OP.

Even during that “Dark Age of Uselessness” they claimed eles were a very strong class. They were meta in all aspects of the game except PvP.

I believe it’s time to revisit that period.

Archaon.9524:

SPESHAL.9106:

This is more than just embarrassing for Anet…it’s embarrassing for players that choose Ele.

Most players don’t mind being OP, but, when it’s this absurd, the tide turns to shame for even playing the profession.

How is it possible that Anet was able to do quick “balance” changes to Ranger and Necro 30pt traits soon after the recent patch…eventually got to Engineer and Mesmer exploits…but STILL has done NOTHING to Ele???

cause someone needed eles to win wts…and nerfing it right after it would have been pretty suspicious

#esports

If they were running 4 of them I’d agree.

Running 2 has been standard for awhile tho

I’m all for build diversity but (I’m gonna generate some hate here) I want to keep the thief a class that relies on the skill of the player.

I’m sorry but let’s face it…S/P and P/P do not. I cringed every time I saw high level play with a S/P thief in it in the past.

S/P: Pistol whip is why this set requires minimal skill to play. Literally 1 PW can down a zerker class or get them to extremely low health. The fact you get a stun and evade frames is just icing on the cake. Before anyone says the wind up is an easy tell remember we are all thieves here and understand all the tricks used. Now we are adding on demand stealth which makes your PW’s even easier to land……

P/P: Again the 3 skill is the culprit, and all I really have to say is we can compare it to LB ranger skill level….

Now don’t get me wrong I’ve ran these sets and have enjoyed running these sets, but I do understand what they are. Heck I even have a my wardrobe set up picked out for running P/P gun slinging face stomper….but I realize that it needs to stay niche + not meta.

CETheLucid.3964:

T raw.4658:

CETheLucid.3964:

T raw.4658:

Reading your previous post in this thread I’m gonna have to say your ideas of balance are way off.

D/D ele doesn’t need to be nerfed

I rest my case.

I mean after you so elaborately tore down my arguments! I sure hope the judge doesn’t throw me in jail!

But yeah, you’re still full of crap.

You best edit that post.

CETheLucid.3964:

T raw.4658:

Reading your previous post in this thread I’m gonna have to say your ideas of balance are way off.

D/D ele doesn’t need to be nerfed

I rest my case.

Wassup with the angry DD thieves?

DD is pretty much worthless in PvP. Sure you can do well if you do your job, but you can do it much better with the other weapon sets.

CETheLucid.3964:

T raw.4658:

If teams were winning in PvP with 4 thieves on a team yes I’d say neuter them to uselessness until you can figure it out.

T raw.4658:

So yes for the sake of balance I’m willing to shelve my Ele for awhile until this kitten can be figured out. If you were interested in balance as well you’d ask for the same thing.

I’m pretty sure that’s not how you balance things.

Reading your previous post in this thread I’m gonna have to say your ideas of balance are way off.

Like I said I’d gut any class for the sake of balance. Anet has been on record saying when you start taking 2 of a class on a team we have to look into it….we are seeing 4-5 now. The nerf needs to be harder than any nerf we’ve seen so far. Turret engies gonna be saying “kitten thats a nerf”

BlackBeard.2873:

T raw.4658:

BlackBeard.2873:

T raw.4658:

Gut the spec and make it completely unviable until you can balance it right.

They already did this one time for eles with the dhuumfire patch, and it left the class in the absolute trash-tier. Even rangers felt bad for eles, and the class was SO BAD it was hard to play a pvp game without your own team trashing you or asking you to swap…for over a year.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3

The thing is, rather than actually reshape some of the core issues plaguing the class, they just reverted all previous nerfs and went right back to square one! To make it worse, they left eles in the dumpster for over a year, and STILL didn’t do anything to properly fix them! What makes you think doing that for another year will end up ANY different?

They were only in the “trash” tier in regards to PvP. Completely viable in all other aspects of the game.

Its time for that to happen again.

So you would like thief (what I take to be your main given your post history) to go into the trash-can for an entire game-mode? Perhaps we should completely neuter thief mobility as it has warped pvp metas SINCE THE START OF THE GAME WITHOUT FAIL (obsoleting every other zerker, and being required on every single team, forever). And I am not saying “slightly adjust” to make it compete with another class for some role, but make it strictly worse than every class for all possible roles.

Honestly think about how it would be if thief didn’t have an actual role in pvp, not even the +1/decap/stealth-res role that it so excels in (so take away stealth from thief, and neuter shortbow mobility). That is what your asking…to put it in some perspective.

I am not trying to single you out, but more respond to all the people who say “nerf this class into the ground so that nobody can play it at all!” That is basically saying “destroy the enjoyment of the game for a large group of people because I want my own kit to be stronger!” The last time they did that, a lot of people straight-up quit the game altogether because they could no longer enjoy it viably, and after all that they STILL hadn’t done anything to adjust how the class functions effectively.

I play lots of classes

If teams were winning in PvP with 4 thieves on a team yes I’d say neuter them to uselessness until you can figure it out.

Fortunately for thieves more than 1 on a team is pretty much auto lose. Heck I think everyone in this forum will agree that unless your 1 thief is extremely good you’re better off with something else…..like another ele

So yes for the sake of balance I’m willing to shelve my Ele for awhile until this kitten can be figured out. If you were interested in balance as well you’d ask for the same thing.

p.s. The thief hate is strong within you. I think you need to expunge it from your system before talking about balance.

Doggie.3184:

[Insert Staff Innuendo.]

Beating My Staff

BlackBeard.2873:

T raw.4658:

Gut the spec and make it completely unviable until you can balance it right.

They already did this one time for eles with the dhuumfire patch, and it left the class in the absolute trash-tier. Even rangers felt bad for eles, and the class was SO BAD it was hard to play a pvp game without your own team trashing you or asking you to swap…for over a year.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3

The thing is, rather than actually reshape some of the core issues plaguing the class, they just reverted all previous nerfs and went right back to square one! To make it worse, they left eles in the dumpster for over a year, and STILL didn’t do anything to properly fix them! What makes you think doing that for another year will end up ANY different?

They were only in the “trash” tier in regards to PvP. Completely viable in all other aspects of the game.

Its time for that to happen again.

surrge.3214:

just give ele stealth.. there problem solved

Watch next patch is gonna give tempest smoke field….

The fact that 4 ele team just won esl literally makes all arguments of slight shaving, DD ele is fine, and we have to nerf right arguments moot.

Gut the spec and make it completely unviable until you can balance it right.

Many will hate on me for that statement but for the sake of the game it needs to happen. Never in GW2’s life has taking 4 of one profession been viable let alone winning a tournament.

Good day

Only reason those 4 eles won was because of group stealth and SB 5.

Nerf thieves

DA DD Trick will be the 1st spec to see.

People are forgetting that the very 1st data we all saw for the thief’s trait was listing Pulmonary Impact as 2065 damage.

That is 1.5x stronger than this data mine.

I think staff’s damage will be more than adequate fellas

Pride.1734:

03:31:26 they said it all lmao

Link?

Best fix is to remove it.

Mattmatt.4962:

@cursE

He can follow you as long as he desire, if you ever stop running, you get annihilated by mesmer’s balanced burst. While running you dont allow him to place decent shatter (as long as you wisely dodge sometime).
So yes you’re forced to run till he leaves you or till you reach a safe area.

I’m not talkiing about the fact that you can kill him IF you’re running 10011 (any other build is auto loose)

.
@ xarallei
I’ll do the math for you since you seems unable to do basic ones

ele’s mobility burst: 1200 (rtl) + 900 (lf) = 2100 on 40sec cd
sxoop: 1K1 on 12sec cd

2swoop brings you to 2K2, gg you reached the ele in a bit than half his mobility burst!
(not even to mention after the first swoop, you’re in range to use your LB if eqquiped while waiting for the 2nd (if you’re using sword (only other viable possibility with GS) you reach him in one mobility burst)

T raw.4658:

Thank you for your reply. I can now understand why you think the way you do and it has nothing to do with you being even remotely correct.

Have a nice day

Thank you for your valuable imput, such argument, much wow
.

@ EvilHero
10011 is said to be able to kill them thanks to OPburning. Since i’m not using this build (a bit lame to me) i can’t confirm. I tend to think it works on shatter mesmer but not on condi mesmer has they are full dire geared (kinda too many hp ^^)

You’re more than welcome and I hope one day everything works out for you.

Though I will be here when after the nerf stick lands…..we are seeing 3-4 ele comps popping up in the PvP scene now.

Only a matter of time.

I honestly feel a thief should be able to 1v1 any spec/class and win in a reasonable amount of time IF the thief player is better.

I also think that all hard counters need to be removed and all 1v1 encounters should be solely based on skill.

Mattmatt.4962:

T raw.4658:

Guard

Every weapon got something to follow, hammer and staff beiing the worst tho. GS isnt great but 2 & 5 used together allows to almost follow. But the real pvp weapon (outside of point bunkering) is sword with medit
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flashing_Blade
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge%27s_Intervention

T raw.4658:

Ranger

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop
go check sword by yourself

The only build that do not have any of thiose 2weapon is axe condi bunker . Bunker isnt made to chase, it’s made to BUNKER (same than guardian by the way :p )

T raw.4658:

Mesmer

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink
Can be used twice if combined with echoe (instant leave combat mode … you know … the exact reason why ride the lightning got hammer-nerfed ? :x ). But even alone its enough to follow ele
Play just 2min in wvw and you’ll see how you can’t escape mesmer. He shouldn’t be able to kill you but you’re forced to run to your blob or your spawn

T raw.4658:

Engi

As i said, for engi, it really depend on what is slotted, but rocket boot and tool kit is pretty common. Both allows to gap close pretty heavily
Anyway you dont see many engi nowadays
But well, i agree that engi is slower

Listing random class is nice, but providing proof is better

PS:
I skipped necro cause i said he’s the slowest class in the game and you sign up for this when you create your char

Thank you for your reply. I can now understand why you think the way you do and it has nothing to do with you being even remotely correct.

Have a nice day