Guild Wars 2

babazhook.6805:

On the Necro boards and on the Guardian boards people insist a Revenant will replace each of them as they are “better” at doing what either of those classes do.

I kind of think we need to wait and see before jumping to that conclusion with the Shiro legend as it relates to the thief.

Thieves will always have something revs do not…..the ability to be nerfed every single patch.

Take that Revs!!

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m totally fine if teef receives buffs in other areas in exchange for a reduction of blind spam. Also, it’s not like teef can’t just go stealth for the stomp.

This is why your opinion on balance is disregarded.

This is a core ability of a thief that you are wanting to nerf. There are no blocks/invulns/stability/etc. on thieves. You got blinds, stealth, and a severely nerfed evasion build. To compensate thieves for your “opinion” you need to totally rework the class….which ain’t kittening happening. This would leave you will a even more broken class which has been your goal for a long time in regards to thieves.

The only thing that needs to happen to blinds in this game is the removal of it from Eles/Mesmers.

Tarkan.5609:

Zodryn.4216:

Also, besides likely having higher HP and armor, a DPS revenant can also swap to Jalis on the fly for extra durability or Ventari for heals. We’ll just have to wait and see what their damage is like, but I’m not optimistic.

or that guy that starts with M for condi remove/transfer

thing is though, they wont have the burst or the stealth of thieves – outshining S/D thieves anyway

You dont need the burst of thieves anymore you got mesmers.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Narcarsis.5739:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The more obvious solution is to make the order of the attacks different:

1. Trigger the unblockable teleport projectile that deals no damage.

2: Trigger the blockable blind and strike that are now the same attack.

This means that you avoid the potential reverse-pull but also allow players to counter the blind.

EDIT: Or if possible just make the reverse pull not happen if it’s reflected and just have it blind/damage the teef instead.

Your second suggestion is the only one that would work, as the teleport and blind are currently tied together. Same goes with the edit – reflect and block fall under the same category in the game engine.

In my opinion if you tie the blind to the strike it won’t change much of anything, you’ll likely still complain about blinds. There are ways to force people out of blocks or negate the affects. Aegis is easy to remove and certain abilities can stun/interrupt through block (Choking Gas + Basilisk Venom, Warrior Signet, Necro Fear Mark, Guardian GS pull, etc). Unblockable abilities add counterplay to the plethora of blocks in the game – removing them only increase the strength of things like Gear Shield, Aegis, Shelter, etc. The things broken at the moment are those that are un-dodgeable (Taunt, Blinding Dissipation). Nothing should be un-dodgeable/un-invulnerable.

Most unblockable skill in this game are from utilities or trait, they are also fairly rare. Having access to a skill that is unblockable just because the devs needed an easy solution to the reflect issue isn’t a good enough reason for it to be a basic attack skill imo. Having Shadow Shot being unblockable isn’t keeping blocks from being the be-all-end-all. It also makes it laughably easy for a Teef to stay in melee range and makes kiting them more difficult than it used to be.

Like I said Zerker Stance and Rampage your way to victory b/c obviously anything that requires you to problem solve is an impossible hurdle.

You are the reason that Anet puts low skill classes builds into this game. Please realize that while you do have an opinion on this public forum yours is disregarded in anything talking balance.

I hope you have a wonderful day and I’m sorry for telling you the truth.

Burr complaining again I see.

Lemme help you out…..zerker stance > rampage

There now let’s drop the subject

Best part about this is you’ll be doing all this ninja kitten wearing heavy armor lolololol

LOL it’s not even remotely OP in the grand scheme of things.

babazhook.6805:

T raw.4658:

Raiden.1375:

With no icd on Swindler’s Equilibrium, it would be possible for steal to recharge within a few seconds in certain situations, which would be too strong.

With the current 1 second cool down, it should be possible to reduce steal’s recharge by 50% in perfect circumstances. However, this would require a thief to perfectly dodge once per second indefinitely, which isn’t nearly possible. Swindler’s Equilibrium could be changed to reduce steal’s recharge by 3 seconds per successful dodge with a 5 second icd. Even though it might look like a nerf on paper, this would allow for better results more realistically.

Do the math and the amount of dodges a thief has now vs before the trait isn’t better than H2C.

You get rid of the ICD it still requires you to successfully dodge an attack, and with the awesomeness that is feline grace + nerfed vigor how many evades you think a thief has now?

Not that many

p.s. If you are talking about when they dodge more than 1 enemy attacking at once being OP…..well compared to all the kitten mesmers, eles, etc got its not.

Well to be fair the trait kicks in on a successful evade and not just a dodge. In other words PW and Flanking strikes would shave time off.

Yes I know and even then the amount of evades is inconsequential

Random Weird Guy.3528:

I don’t understand your argument. You are basically saying that bountiful theft should be baseline because not having bountiful theft allows people to counter steal. Where’s my boon strip for hammer warrior?

Just press rampage

Raiden.1375:

T raw.4658:

Do the math and the amount of dodges a thief has now vs before the trait isn’t better than H2C.

You get rid of the ICD it still requires you to successfully dodge an attack, and with the awesomeness that is feline grace + nerfed vigor how many evades you think a thief has now?

Not that many

p.s. If you are talking about when they dodge more than 1 enemy attacking at once being OP…..well compared to all the kitten mesmers, eles, etc got its not.

Yeah, thief has less dodges now which doesn’t help with Swindler’s Equilibrium having a 1 second icd. This change would only help with that.

Also, I agree that with no icd it wouldn’t be so op that a thief could 1v5 or anything, but it would still be too strong. For example, if you are just being focused temporarily by multiple enemies in a team fight, or if you dodge fast attacks from a single enemy like a rapid fire or someone with quickness, it would result in multiple evades from 1 dodge by itself.

So the enemy players are punished for bad use of skills vs thief……I fail to see the problem

Vanthian.9267:

Nier.8741:

While the class takes no skill, it isn’t effective atm. I do agree playing an easy class will not make you best at anything tbh.

Every class is easy in this game, however Ranger is not the easiest by a long shot. It is harder playing at a constant disadvantage not easier.

trunks.5249:

i would like to know how to tell if i am a good or bad player.

You are still playing Guild Wars 2 pvp, you are most likely an average mmo player or below. All the good players left a long time ago. That is why this game’s pvp is a kitten fest and will continue to be so until it dies (which may not be to far off for pvp).

So rangers take skill and no good mmo players play this game anymore.

So uhh what mmo they all playing

Raiden.1375:

With no icd on Swindler’s Equilibrium, it would be possible for steal to recharge within a few seconds in certain situations, which would be too strong.

With the current 1 second cool down, it should be possible to reduce steal’s recharge by 50% in perfect circumstances. However, this would require a thief to perfectly dodge once per second indefinitely, which isn’t nearly possible. Swindler’s Equilibrium could be changed to reduce steal’s recharge by 3 seconds per successful dodge with a 5 second icd. Even though it might look like a nerf on paper, this would allow for better results more realistically.

Do the math and the amount of dodges a thief has now vs before the trait isn’t better than H2C.

You get rid of the ICD it still requires you to successfully dodge an attack, and with the awesomeness that is feline grace + nerfed vigor how many evades you think a thief has now?

Not that many

p.s. If you are talking about when they dodge more than 1 enemy attacking at once being OP…..well compared to all the kitten mesmers, eles, etc got its not.

Condi ranger fishing for compliments…….ok

You are a great player and should join a team and carry them to victory!

As in 2 thieves = death of a teams chances to win

Yes thats true….otherwise rampage the point while your team easily wins mid

jportell.2197:

Go shadow arts.

Bzzt wrong

Shadows Embrace was nerfed and can’t keep up.

I’m amused

Thanks

Pepsi.8907:

Tissitra.4153:

I asked this question somewhere without getting an answer so let me ask me again. I challenge you to name me a single build on a single class (other than mesmer of course) that would consistently have a higher than 50% winning chance against say the mantra shatter build.

The closest I can think of is something like a mediguard or power ranger, but here I would say it is 50/50 at best. And please bear in mind that the mesmer does not lose simply if he is forced to disengage.

yes but does the mesmer need to kill said target to be able to win?
You’re basically asking us to name you a power build, while knowing full well that mesmer counter said builds just like the thief does… I don’t want to switch attention or anything, I’m simply pointing it out…
Condi necros are truly a pain in the kitten to fight, 50/50 however? I’m not sure, I know it rules around that when I fight against one who is equally skilled.
We may have a lot of condi cleanse, but the speed at which a necro can apply them is truly higher than the speed with which we can cleanse them… especially since half of them are core-class mechanics that we need for something else than only cleansing…
A good D/D Ele is also a tough match, and I’m not speaking as someone who doesn’t know about Ele, I have 700 games and a thousand hour on my ele, I know how to bait them and I know when to spike them, nonetheless, a good D/D ele is very hard to take down, especially when traiting in earth/water/arcana…
D/P thieves, but then it’s a game of baiting for both parties and revolve around one single mistake on both part to be done with…
P/U Condi mesmers (seen more in WvW, but I’ve spotted a few around here in PvP)
And, of course lol, Shatter mesmer against another Shatter mesmer
On top of my hat that’s what I can think about…

Not 50/50 win ration but pretty annoying: Condi rangers and burn guardian

If you count “unable to kill” as a good counter: bunker guard and necro are impossible and I’d rather turn around. Matches lasts forever and I really can’t waste time in taking 5 minutes to kill someone. I’d be more useful elsewhere…

Was kinda with you until you said D/P thief is 1st one to make a mistake….no

If mesmer loses to thief 1v1 now it’s because the mesmer player isn’t good

Vieux P.1238:

Stop complaining & playing squishy builds. No wonder you die all the time. All classes including thieves will down you if it hits you. kitten it, why thieve players cant be innovative? Here.. New thieve guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEnar62Impo

Is this fella for real?

Uhh nm I’ma just let this one slide

Y’all complained hardcore and had Anet buff you out the kitten until a kittened monkey can succeed on this class.

Gratz…

Now let’s have a serious discussion on how to gut the class to require skill again.

I will go first and say revert PU changes and remove the insta 1200 range stun. Start there and nerf until the brainded play of the class is gone.

thx

Tired of getting insta stunned from 1200 range and having the mesmer believe they’re blessed with innate gaming skill far greater than Jesus himself

Every mesmer I kill 1v1 will get the maximum kitten talk due to how bad the player actually is to die on it.

The nerfs of the thief’s survivability are too much when compared to the power creep of the rest of the game.

Please un-nerf our defensive traits so we can outplay our opponents again…..getting annoying being hard countered by just about every class in the kitten game.

Also can we get a Dev who actually knows wtf the thief traits are? Watching that Ready Up was the most painful experience of my GW2 career.

p.s. please give me Karl’s twitter so i can blow it up

kthx

NinjaEd.3946:

T raw.4658:

Honestly thieves need a signet elite.

<insert cool Thief signet name here>
Passive: -25% damage
Active: Grants 6 seconds of stab/invuln

Ha, HAHAHA 6 seconds invuln? Good luck.

Really though, I don’t know if suggestions like these are serious or a joke. I know thief balance right now is a joke but come’on.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stone
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

Endure pain can be traited to 5 seconds.

Honestly thieves need a signet elite.

Passive: -25% damage
Active: Grants 6 seconds of stab/invuln

The only thing keeping a thief in the game right now is the mobility.

If you have one already you don’t need another to decap far due to a thief’s glaring problems.

1. Extremely weak 1v1…like worst in game
2. Not the best burst
3. Survivability at an all time low

So there ya,have it

I must say watching mesmers defend the class post patch is hilarious after reading all their kittening prepatch

Tao.1234:

I kindly ask OP and people who think like OP to start looking at themselves and start improving.

He did and rolled a mesmer…..

MidoriMarch.8067:

Recent patch is seriously kittened up d/d thief so hard in the face.

Now there is no point of running d/d (unless 100% glass cannon signet) because d/p is so powerful, low risk high reward.

Anet totally kittened up thief’s build diversity now they force us to run d/p (D/D and S/D is so weak compare to D/P)

seriously revert SE + cloaked in shadow +rejuv back to the old spot or make a solution for d/d.

idk who’s idea it was for this thief patch but seriously hes a brainless idiot big time imo.

You play P/D perplexity…..

Aomine.5012:

BlackTruth.6813:

If you’re buffing Rangers, give them something that takes skill to land such as Skull Crack right now. A class should NEVER been looked down upon as a skill-less in all the times it’s been brought up.

Everyone said Rangers were braindead when Trap Ranger was the meta. It’s because it was just so true.
Everyone said Rangers were braindead and taught bad habits when Spirit Ranger was the meta. It’s because it was just so true.

I heard Ranger in GW1 had spike that took REAL skill to land, so why can’t they bring that into the game as well? Like I don’t know make it so Ranger can actually cast the pet skills by themselves such as the knockdown from the dog (Lone druid style from dota) but cut their evades and give them telegraphed damage?

Where in the heaven did you see trap ranger is ever in the META?
Are we playing the same game? They’ve been trashes for 3 years aside from WvW roaming.

Also they DID NOT BUFF US. They nerf spirits and traps, 2 of the already unviable utilities! They even kill condition ranger which relies on off-hand radius trait, by removing it entirely. Ironically condition Ranger is never in the Meta post April 2014 patch because they’re sub-par in almost anything aside from 1 v 1.

Rangers have been in trash tier since 2014, and now they’re still trash tier zzz…

Trap rangers are legit. In fact the best dueling class in PvP has been rangers for a long time.

Rangers have always been a strong class in this game.

The old Cnd steal BS combo hits faster and harder.

You would of gotten rocked harder

Ya I noticed that too.

Sad really

thx

/15chars

So uhh what about thieves is OP?

Every class in the game should killing them with ease

HaseKent.1843:

T raw.4658:

Why is it Anet always puts in high AI low skill builds into the game?

Please for the love of god gut it. Buff necro’s elsewhere to compensate IDC….just no more AI BS builds plz.

/discuss

The Problem lies between the keyboard and the chair… =)

I’m getting the impression reading & comprehension wasn’t a strong point for ya…..

I’ll be nice even though you refused. I bolded a part of my original post you quoted to help you out. Follow the clues

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PVP-Wurm-placement

I lol’d

Thief has a good amount of combos actually.

Any ability that has a cast time (even 1/4th a second) can be combo’d with.

Explore

I’m happy thats ur break down but ima need a Lil more proof than that

Morwath.9817:

T raw.4658:

Morwath.9817:

T raw.4658:

Morwath.9817:

Mesmers and Thieves kill people out from stealth without any effort..
MM Necro isn’t competitive, but killed some random guy, everyone loses their minds.

I’ll give you mesmers as they are quite over the top right now. I don’t think you’ll find very many saying that isn’t true.

Thieves aren’t spiking you 100-0 from stealth mate. Its NOT possible, and only 1 specific build is going to reliably 100-0 you as a thief. If you actually die to that build then you were severely outplayed…..like you honestly need to be afk.

So, you’re trying to say that 11k Backstabs doesn’t happen? ;-)

You only run with 11k?

How much hp can have S/D Fresh Air Eles, if they want to do as much damage as Thieves and/or Mesmers?

Anyway going back to your question, no. I don’t run any number of HP right now, don’t even que until this post-patch mess will be fixed and PvP will be enjoyable once again.

OK thanks for bringing this up.

With marauders you will have 17k hp with lots of defenses compared to thieves (since you insist on bringing up thieves) and more burst. For a thief to achieve the burst that ele has you go full signet YOLO build and we all know how that goes.

As for mesmer they are an anomaly atm. Seems they are balanced (if we can even call it that) around zerker vs cele.

This thread is about skilless AI builds not thief vs Ele. If you really want to make a thread debating Teef v Ele I’ll participate but hope to God Anet doesn’t read it for the sake of your class.

StickerHappy.8052:

Vaux.7502:

Lol, it boggles my mind that people are complaining about thieves post patch. Thieves are EASILY, hands down one of two worst profs with the ranger.

Yes, even necros are worlds better than thieves right now, in a burst meta.

The amount of SERIOUS suggestions like BS having a cd, all stealth skills incurring an initiative cost is absolutely hilarious. You people are all so terrible at this game and it is so entertaining to read.

And I’m a mesmer main.

What?

LOL do not ever put rangers at the same level as thieves, do you see any rangers in top tier pvp? LOL

Yes he did.

Mobility is the only reason thieves will be taken. Without it thieves have zero to offer to tpvp

Morwath.9817:

T raw.4658:

Morwath.9817:

Mesmers and Thieves kill people out from stealth without any effort..
MM Necro isn’t competitive, but killed some random guy, everyone loses their minds.

I’ll give you mesmers as they are quite over the top right now. I don’t think you’ll find very many saying that isn’t true.

Thieves aren’t spiking you 100-0 from stealth mate. Its NOT possible, and only 1 specific build is going to reliably 100-0 you as a thief. If you actually die to that build then you were severely outplayed…..like you honestly need to be afk.

So, you’re trying to say that 11k Backstabs doesn’t happen? ;-)

You only run with 11k?

Morwath.9817:

Mesmers and Thieves kill people out from stealth without any effort..
MM Necro isn’t competitive, but killed some random guy, everyone loses their minds.

I’ll give you mesmers as they are quite over the top right now. I don’t think you’ll find very many saying that isn’t true.

Thieves aren’t spiking you 100-0 from stealth mate. Its NOT possible, and only 1 specific build is going to reliably 100-0 you as a thief. If you actually die to that build then you were severely outplayed…..like you honestly need to be afk.

I must say my original post on the changes “My eval of changes after 24hrs”https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/My-eval-of-changes-after-24hrs/first#post5213191 was pretty spot on. I’ve noticed that i’ve gravitated towards s/d DA,Acro,Trck for PvP. The passive procs of the line are actually very helpful in surviving and fighting. I’ve noticed I can break down and kill bad players on OP builds.

There still remains the problem tho that the power creep of the rest of the classes has passed the thief. It seems like the devs in charge of the thief changes were very responsible when making changes in regards to overall game balance….unfortunately the devs in charge of all the other classes failed to get this memo, and we are stuck with fighting an insane power creep on a nerfed class.

If Anet refuses to revert some of the power creep in the other classes then thieves will need, at minimum, old feline grace, old SE, and some old nerfs reverted. This will give the thief an even playing field when fighting the other classes, because thieves in general are arguably the weakest class in the game atm.

Now please understand I’m not talking about some lame trapper condi build or something like that, but I am discussing real PvP builds that can be used.

As always /discuss or /disagree but please if you disagree PLEASE adhere to these guidelines:

1. Yes thieves have great burst, but so does every class in the game right now. The ONLY absolutely insane omgwtfqqfaceonforums burst a thief has is a full signet YOLO build. Yes you can get great damage but you die if you miss…..the other burst builds like it from other classes do not suffer like a thief in this regard.

2. Yes thieves have stealth but in meta pvp mesmer stealth >>> thief stealth

3. Thief has no advantage 1v1 vs any profession anymore

thx

Rym.1469:

T raw.4658:

LOL people are actually trying to say AI builds take skill

Wow…..

Try running MM in tPvP on decent MMR. Now, come on! Prove your supreme knowledge of Necromancer and AI management! When you’re ready, make a video of your gameplay being effective.

I count on you, T raw. Show us your skill!

Untill then, please go back to your Thief and L2P. Cheers!

So I play a thief….wtf does that have to do with me hating low skill AI builds? Absolutely nothing.

I’ll make a suggestion to you. Reread my posts and understand my problem is NOT with necros per say but no skill AI builds. If thieves had a no skill AI build I’d be the 1st to champion the removal of said build.

Heck I’ve been known to champion the removal of condi thieves….in fact I don’t even consider them thieves at all ^^

nacario.9417:

I dont get why people are complaining about the ranger not using his skills right or the pet right in the video, and some people even complained he didnt swap weapons – and what good would that do, some crazy burst? If a Power ranger leaves his lb then his burst/“pressure” is gone, and landing hits with ur gs is no easy task vs guud players.

The ranger auto attacks hit slightly less in this patch and cele still scales the best on ele. It was quite funny watching the ranger pewpew’ing away while the ele roateted his skills and didnt try to avoid damage, and yet kept himself high in Health. From a 1v1 perspective that is unbalanced, why people are trying to justify this is their problem, and the ones shouting the most are those you see the most.

Figthing good eles are already quite hard as a Power lb ranger, but as cele its not possible. Id love to see how many other classes/builds struggle with this setup, though theres no Secret ele / mesmer is top tier atm

This post is full of truth and if ANYONE is trying to defend ele’s at this point in time they need to stop. You are really starting to make yourselves look REALLY bad. Infact anyone caught defending what ele is right now needs to be remembered…..and all future opinions of theirs on game balance thrown out the window for the rest of their posting career.

kthx

zapv.8051:

T raw.4658:

zapv.8051:

T raw.4658:

Its all about AI builds being in the game period.

This is why no one is taking you seriously

Ah the old cherry pick a statement and disregard the rest.

Try again

it isn’t that strong of a tank, only being able to hold a point vs 2 good players

So what you’re saying is it’s only good against 2 good players thus is balanced……

See I can do that too.

style.6173:

T raw.4658:

LOL people are actually trying to say AI builds take skill

Wow…..

AI builds don’t take skil

That’s all you needed to say. Thank you for your input.

ps. I never said they were as strong as turret engies just that they are a heavy AI no skill build.

It was changed to 4 secs due to culling no revealing the thief right away.

That is gone now so a change back is warranted

I love watching people defend this.

Could anyone imagine if he actually attacked that ranger??

Shoot for the sake of balance a zerker class should kill anyone after 2 mins of just auto attacks.

LOL people are actually trying to say AI builds take skill

Wow…..

The truth of the last patch is starting to come out lol

zapv.8051:

T raw.4658:

Its all about AI builds being in the game period.

This is why no one is taking you seriously

Ah the old cherry pick a statement and disregard the rest.

Try again