Guild Wars 2

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

I just googled “appeal to authority” and this is exactly what it told me:

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form: Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S. Person A makes claim C about subject S. Therefore, C is true.

I don’t see how someone can completely misinterpret that as you did…

Cheers!

And thats exactly what I thought it meant.. Not sure what you say is wrong.

Edit:

Word of advice: Im quite sure Im not the only one who can misinterpret stuff.
So a bit respect towards ppl with less English knowledge might be in order.

Some countries already speak 2-3 languages as mine, where we need to speak/write it fluently. So excuse me if I come over as the only one who can misinterpret expensive words, from a non Native English/American nevertheless.

Regardless of what you meant, that isn’t what you said, and I’m not a mind-reader. The point is that your entire argument against me was one big appeal to authority fallacy which is why I disregarded it.

The point is that citing yourself as an authority is fallacious whereas citing an accomplished, elite, and recognizable figure concerning the subject matter holds actual credibility. In this particular instance, it’s your word versus the word of Helseth on the matter of the state of Mesmer in PvP.

I don’t know what country you’re from, but English is one of the most difficult languages for us Japanese people to learn, and most of us will never even master the pronunciation of it due to how certain muscles develop; it can quite literally be impossible. I don’t even know why you brought that up with me.

Word of advice: I didn’t misinterpret anything; you did.

As a syllogism, the argument has the following basic structure:

• A says P about subject matter S.
• A should be trusted about subject matter S.
• Therefore, P is correct.

The second premise is not accepted as valid, as it amounts to an unfounded assertion that leads to circular reasoning able to define person or group A into inerrancy on any subject matter.

Now I see, u didnt undertood what I meant:

• I said irony earlier because Helseth is subject A, he’s saying C must be 3 so therefore C is 3.

I never said ppl should listen to me instead of helseth.
What I did meant was that ppl need to think on their own and pick everything with a grain of salt, even what top players say.

Top players sometimes say stuff that aint right (for the pvp community in general)

Example: Top Engineers were saying Engi’s were fine and balanced and didnt need any nerfs (5G on stream).

However, at patch they did got slight nerfs here and there because they were simply OP for the PvP community and too easy to pick up and win.

As with other classes direct nerfs. They didnt got nerfed to defy top player’s idea of balance, but to compliment the PvP community as a whole.

• Second thing u missunderstood was that I did NOT say you misinterpret anything, but I did because of my flaw in English. Thats why I brought it up.

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Top players say alot of things about their class and are obvious (mostly) biased.
5G called Slick Shoes balanced and “felt” Cele Engi didnt need to be nerfed.
Phanta/Walley said Cele Ele were fine and didnt need any adjusting (read; nerf).

There are some other top players calling out stuff but most are biased and will protect their main class and/or attack another class opposing theirs.

Helseth might’ve said mesmer is not optimal but Misha and Frost sure as hell said it is..

The real reason why most ppl also didnt pick mesmer was because of TCG’s split.
Their dreamteam of EU fell apart and so did their dreamteamcomp everyone tried to accomplish.

People in a MMO are like sheep (read: most of the ppl) and will follow not only builds but also comps in from top tier.

TCG’s split instantly shook up the average to above average teams and they got rid of their mesmers aswel (before introducing shoutwarr nevertheless).

I’m certainly not debating the fact having a mesmer back then was rewarding.
It was only rewarding if u had a team build around and put effort into it, like TCG did for 2 years straight (Team Kurse prev).

Teams came together in few weeks cant possibly make the mesmer optimal in their team.

Solution after some weeks: Shoutwarr.

That’s great and all, but this is just your opinion and conjecture versus that of other people. The problem is that said other people are actual top tournament players making their opinion more valuable than yours, not to mention the fact that choice picks in progression from meta to meta agrees with them over you.

You just don’t and seemingly can’t make a convincing argument that actually holds weight. Applying bias to top players with a blanket statement does the opposite of helping your case. Furthermore, applying your own spin on history (read: bias) in follow-up just further detracts from the credibility of your argument.

Ok now I know enough, clearly you believe top players who believe their class is UP or fine while they’re OP.

I’m not biased, Im stating facts here, you can look those up.
I’ve been in PvP before TCG even excisted, please.

Saying mesmer wasnt in the meta is also your opinion, or may I remind you of 55hp, TCG, Kant, and other top teams atleast trying to run mesmer before shoutbow?

Oh I guess they dont count because they’re not helseth, I guess?

History spin? How long are u in pvp? Half a year? Ever carefully overviewed EU scene past 2.5 years since it became ‘esports’?

Atleast watch some old ESL vids and then we’ll talk.

If a class was truly not viable for the meta, top players wouldnt play it obviously.
If they can make it work, others can do too with same effort.

There’s no denying in that.

Or are you stating that helseth admits he’s bad (read; liability to his team) and got carried through the years?

Anyway, we can keep discussing this on and on or agree to disagree.
I know what my view is throughout the years of GW2 pvp and you have yours.

So your entire argument is one big appeal to authority fallacy? Disregarded.

Had to look up what that even means, since I’m not English/American.

Anyway, following Google, you’re saying Im trying to convince ppl what I say is true because someone else states same facts?

Isnt this how the discussion started; how one guy said “this guy said.. (quote from Helseth saying Mesmer sux basically)”?

This discussion started because 2-3 ppl are trying to convince me mesmers werent in meta because Helseth said it was bad.. Irony?

You still don’t seem to understand what it means based on your reply, and I’m not a native English speaker nor American either. Feel free to try again.

Ok, google must be wrong then.

Cheerio

I just googled “appeal to authority” and this is exactly what it told me:

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form: Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S. Person A makes claim C about subject S. Therefore, C is true.

I don’t see how someone can completely misinterpret that as you did…

Cheers!

And thats exactly what I thought it meant.. Not sure what you say is wrong.

Edit:

Word of advice: Im quite sure Im not the only one who can misinterpret stuff.
So a bit respect towards ppl with less English knowledge might be in order.

Some countries already speak 2-3 languages as mine, where we need to speak/write it fluently. So excuse me if I come over as the only one who can misinterpret expensive words, from a non Native English/American nevertheless.

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Top players say alot of things about their class and are obvious (mostly) biased.
5G called Slick Shoes balanced and “felt” Cele Engi didnt need to be nerfed.
Phanta/Walley said Cele Ele were fine and didnt need any adjusting (read; nerf).

There are some other top players calling out stuff but most are biased and will protect their main class and/or attack another class opposing theirs.

Helseth might’ve said mesmer is not optimal but Misha and Frost sure as hell said it is..

The real reason why most ppl also didnt pick mesmer was because of TCG’s split.
Their dreamteam of EU fell apart and so did their dreamteamcomp everyone tried to accomplish.

People in a MMO are like sheep (read: most of the ppl) and will follow not only builds but also comps in from top tier.

TCG’s split instantly shook up the average to above average teams and they got rid of their mesmers aswel (before introducing shoutwarr nevertheless).

I’m certainly not debating the fact having a mesmer back then was rewarding.
It was only rewarding if u had a team build around and put effort into it, like TCG did for 2 years straight (Team Kurse prev).

Teams came together in few weeks cant possibly make the mesmer optimal in their team.

Solution after some weeks: Shoutwarr.

That’s great and all, but this is just your opinion and conjecture versus that of other people. The problem is that said other people are actual top tournament players making their opinion more valuable than yours, not to mention the fact that choice picks in progression from meta to meta agrees with them over you.

You just don’t and seemingly can’t make a convincing argument that actually holds weight. Applying bias to top players with a blanket statement does the opposite of helping your case. Furthermore, applying your own spin on history (read: bias) in follow-up just further detracts from the credibility of your argument.

Ok now I know enough, clearly you believe top players who believe their class is UP or fine while they’re OP.

I’m not biased, Im stating facts here, you can look those up.
I’ve been in PvP before TCG even excisted, please.

Saying mesmer wasnt in the meta is also your opinion, or may I remind you of 55hp, TCG, Kant, and other top teams atleast trying to run mesmer before shoutbow?

Oh I guess they dont count because they’re not helseth, I guess?

History spin? How long are u in pvp? Half a year? Ever carefully overviewed EU scene past 2.5 years since it became ‘esports’?

Atleast watch some old ESL vids and then we’ll talk.

If a class was truly not viable for the meta, top players wouldnt play it obviously.
If they can make it work, others can do too with same effort.

There’s no denying in that.

Or are you stating that helseth admits he’s bad (read; liability to his team) and got carried through the years?

Anyway, we can keep discussing this on and on or agree to disagree.
I know what my view is throughout the years of GW2 pvp and you have yours.

So your entire argument is one big appeal to authority fallacy? Disregarded.

Had to look up what that even means, since I’m not English/American.

Anyway, following Google, you’re saying Im trying to convince ppl what I say is true because someone else states same facts?

Isnt this how the discussion started; how one guy said “this guy said.. (quote from Helseth saying Mesmer sux basically)”?

This discussion started because 2-3 ppl are trying to convince me mesmers werent in meta because Helseth said it was bad.. Irony?

You still don’t seem to understand what it means based on your reply, and I’m not a native English speaker nor American either. Feel free to try again.

Ok, google must be wrong then.

Cheerio

Kocoff.7582:

HOLD HANDS MY BROTHERS.

TOMORROW IS THE DAY OF RECKONING. May the thief be forever deadly and swift with his new weapon.

UMBASA

Day of reckoning? :o

stof.9341:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Look at the date, March 2015, far before HoT got announced.
Who are we to say that concept art is not an important HoT Story NPC?

If it really meant this was Sniper Thief Class Specialization, Im quite sure they wouldnt be that stupid to already post it March 2015.

I don’t really see Thief-like armor either.

There are no facts..

You misread. The concept art is even older than that since it was uploaded to the wiki 5 years ago in 2010 !

Ah, didnt missread, I read the scan files. It indeed says 2010 lol..

Ok so its obviously not Sniper Thief Specialization..

arenta.2953:

Terrorsquad.4802:

arenta.2953:

Terrorsquad.4802:

arenta.2953:

Fenda.1398:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Thief is getting rifle tough

That assumption is entirely based on the trailer and coming from a five second lasting scene with a thief-looking NPC wielding a rifle. For all we know it could have been an Engineer as well, or one of those environmental sniper rifle NPCs.

We actually have the same level of proof that Thief is getting Staff as we had with Elementalists and their Warhorn. Datamining showed two things: A specialization background art for the elite specialization and a weapon skin akin to the weapon shown on the background art.

The specialization background art: http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png
And no, thats clearly not for Revenants. This one is brown/black/red, the colorcode of almost all Thief art, while the Revenant uses strong red tones with and pitch-black background.

The staff in question: [&AgFgEQEAAA==] , http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-staff.jpg
Totally looks like the Staff in the art piece.

For further information: http://dulfy.net/2015/06/24/gw2-upcoming-items-from-june-23-patch/

The ascended weapons shown all correspond to the specialization backgrounds known or datamined. The Bow clearly is from Braham (Dragonhunter), the Greatsword is from the Reaper, Warhorn is Elementalist and the Shield is somewhat Glint-y or Shatterer-y in appearance, hinting towards the Revenants Elite Specialization which we know will be Glint as a Legend while the Mesmer’s Shield in the trailer looked completly different and this one doesnt fit the theme of the Mesmer at all.

Chances for Thief getting Rifle as his first Elite Specialization weapon are in the 1% range right now, and as much as i´d love to have a 1.2k ranged weapon on my Thief, i hope the Staff brings back the viability of stealthless fighting. I hope its a bruiser style.

they changed Ele’s “sepcialization page” from sword to horn

they can do it to theif.

There was never “proof” Ele would get Sword.
Only speculations.

heres gw2 art of rifle thief.

Source? Could easily be fan-art unless I missed a post somewhere.
Also, who are we to say thats not a female Engineer?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Horia_Dociu_Sniper_concept_art.jpg

This concept art contains property of ArenaNet or NCsoft which is used with permission.
The terms of the permission do not include third party use. It is not released under the GFDL.
Please see Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Copyrights for further information.

Sniper Concept Art by Horia Dociu

Sniper.
not engineer
not shot gun

Sniper. aka ranger or thief. as theres no pet, it fits theif.

sniper. aka a ranged weapon designed for long range fire, high accuracy, high dmg hits, but slow rof.

not a shotgun loaded with glue, nets, shotgun shells.
and NOT FIRED FROM THE HIP.

Look at the date, March 2015, far before HoT got announced.

Who are we to say that concept art character is not an important HoT Story NPC? What about the Leader of the Snipers we saw at the Beta?

If it really means this is Sniper Thief Class Specialization, Im quite sure they wouldnt be that stupid to already post pre-HoT announcement.

I don’t really see Thief-like armor either.

There are no facts..

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Top players say alot of things about their class and are obvious (mostly) biased.
5G called Slick Shoes balanced and “felt” Cele Engi didnt need to be nerfed.
Phanta/Walley said Cele Ele were fine and didnt need any adjusting (read; nerf).

There are some other top players calling out stuff but most are biased and will protect their main class and/or attack another class opposing theirs.

Helseth might’ve said mesmer is not optimal but Misha and Frost sure as hell said it is..

The real reason why most ppl also didnt pick mesmer was because of TCG’s split.
Their dreamteam of EU fell apart and so did their dreamteamcomp everyone tried to accomplish.

People in a MMO are like sheep (read: most of the ppl) and will follow not only builds but also comps in from top tier.

TCG’s split instantly shook up the average to above average teams and they got rid of their mesmers aswel (before introducing shoutwarr nevertheless).

I’m certainly not debating the fact having a mesmer back then was rewarding.
It was only rewarding if u had a team build around and put effort into it, like TCG did for 2 years straight (Team Kurse prev).

Teams came together in few weeks cant possibly make the mesmer optimal in their team.

Solution after some weeks: Shoutwarr.

That’s great and all, but this is just your opinion and conjecture versus that of other people. The problem is that said other people are actual top tournament players making their opinion more valuable than yours, not to mention the fact that choice picks in progression from meta to meta agrees with them over you.

You just don’t and seemingly can’t make a convincing argument that actually holds weight. Applying bias to top players with a blanket statement does the opposite of helping your case. Furthermore, applying your own spin on history (read: bias) in follow-up just further detracts from the credibility of your argument.

Ok now I know enough, clearly you believe top players who believe their class is UP or fine while they’re OP.

I’m not biased, Im stating facts here, you can look those up.
I’ve been in PvP before TCG even excisted, please.

Saying mesmer wasnt in the meta is also your opinion, or may I remind you of 55hp, TCG, Kant, and other top teams atleast trying to run mesmer before shoutbow?

Oh I guess they dont count because they’re not helseth, I guess?

History spin? How long are u in pvp? Half a year? Ever carefully overviewed EU scene past 2.5 years since it became ‘esports’?

Atleast watch some old ESL vids and then we’ll talk.

If a class was truly not viable for the meta, top players wouldnt play it obviously.
If they can make it work, others can do too with same effort.

There’s no denying in that.

Or are you stating that helseth admits he’s bad (read; liability to his team) and got carried through the years?

Anyway, we can keep discussing this on and on or agree to disagree.
I know what my view is throughout the years of GW2 pvp and you have yours.

So your entire argument is one big appeal to authority fallacy? Disregarded.

Had to look up what that even means, since I’m not English/American.

Anyway, following Google, you’re saying Im trying to convince ppl what I say is true because someone else states same facts?

Isnt this how the discussion started; how one guy said “this guy said.. (quote from Helseth saying Mesmer sux basically)”?

This discussion started because 2-3 ppl are trying to convince me mesmers werent in meta because Helseth said it was bad.. Irony?

arenta.2953:

Terrorsquad.4802:

arenta.2953:

Fenda.1398:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Thief is getting rifle tough

That assumption is entirely based on the trailer and coming from a five second lasting scene with a thief-looking NPC wielding a rifle. For all we know it could have been an Engineer as well, or one of those environmental sniper rifle NPCs.

We actually have the same level of proof that Thief is getting Staff as we had with Elementalists and their Warhorn. Datamining showed two things: A specialization background art for the elite specialization and a weapon skin akin to the weapon shown on the background art.

The specialization background art: http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png
And no, thats clearly not for Revenants. This one is brown/black/red, the colorcode of almost all Thief art, while the Revenant uses strong red tones with and pitch-black background.

The staff in question: [&AgFgEQEAAA==] , http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-staff.jpg
Totally looks like the Staff in the art piece.

For further information: http://dulfy.net/2015/06/24/gw2-upcoming-items-from-june-23-patch/

The ascended weapons shown all correspond to the specialization backgrounds known or datamined. The Bow clearly is from Braham (Dragonhunter), the Greatsword is from the Reaper, Warhorn is Elementalist and the Shield is somewhat Glint-y or Shatterer-y in appearance, hinting towards the Revenants Elite Specialization which we know will be Glint as a Legend while the Mesmer’s Shield in the trailer looked completly different and this one doesnt fit the theme of the Mesmer at all.

Chances for Thief getting Rifle as his first Elite Specialization weapon are in the 1% range right now, and as much as i´d love to have a 1.2k ranged weapon on my Thief, i hope the Staff brings back the viability of stealthless fighting. I hope its a bruiser style.

they changed Ele’s “sepcialization page” from sword to horn

they can do it to theif.

There was never “proof” Ele would get Sword.
Only speculations.

heres gw2 art of rifle thief.

Source? Could easily be fan-art unless I missed a post somewhere.
Also, who are we to say thats not a female Engineer?

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Top players say alot of things about their class and are obvious (mostly) biased.
5G called Slick Shoes balanced and “felt” Cele Engi didnt need to be nerfed.
Phanta/Walley said Cele Ele were fine and didnt need any adjusting (read; nerf).

There are some other top players calling out stuff but most are biased and will protect their main class and/or attack another class opposing theirs.

Helseth might’ve said mesmer is not optimal but Misha and Frost sure as hell said it is..

The real reason why most ppl also didnt pick mesmer was because of TCG’s split.
Their dreamteam of EU fell apart and so did their dreamteamcomp everyone tried to accomplish.

People in a MMO are like sheep (read: most of the ppl) and will follow not only builds but also comps in from top tier.

TCG’s split instantly shook up the average to above average teams and they got rid of their mesmers aswel (before introducing shoutwarr nevertheless).

I’m certainly not debating the fact having a mesmer back then was rewarding.
It was only rewarding if u had a team build around and put effort into it, like TCG did for 2 years straight (Team Kurse prev).

Teams came together in few weeks cant possibly make the mesmer optimal in their team.

Solution after some weeks: Shoutwarr.

That’s great and all, but this is just your opinion and conjecture versus that of other people. The problem is that said other people are actual top tournament players making their opinion more valuable than yours, not to mention the fact that choice picks in progression from meta to meta agrees with them over you.

You just don’t and seemingly can’t make a convincing argument that actually holds weight. Applying bias to top players with a blanket statement does the opposite of helping your case. Furthermore, applying your own spin on history (read: bias) in follow-up just further detracts from the credibility of your argument.

Ok now I know enough, clearly you believe top players who believe their class is UP or fine while they’re OP.

I’m not biased, Im stating facts here, you can look those up.
I’ve been in PvP before TCG even excisted, please.

Saying mesmer wasnt in the meta is also your opinion, or may I remind you of 55hp, TCG, Kant, and other top teams atleast trying to run mesmer before shoutbow?

Oh I guess they dont count because they’re not helseth, I guess?

History spin? How long are u in pvp? Half a year? Ever carefully overviewed EU scene past 2.5 years since it became ‘esports’?

Atleast watch some old ESL vids and then we’ll talk.

If a class was truly not viable for the meta, top players wouldnt play it obviously.
If they can make it work, others can do too with same effort.

There’s no denying in that.

Or are you stating that helseth admits he’s bad (read; liability to his team) and got carried through the years?

Anyway, we can keep discussing this on and on or agree to disagree.
I know what my view is throughout the years of GW2 pvp and you have yours.

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Solori.6025:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Solori.6025:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Iavra.8510:

Oh noes, mesmer is actually viable the first time in 3 years, better get those nerfs rolling.

They were always viable, it just took more skill & team practice compared to now.

That myth has been debunked like months ago.
Mesmer’s havent been meta for some time.

Mesmers havent been meta because no1 outside helseth’s & frost’s teams actually put effort into playing with it (high risk = high reward)

Having 2 eles and/or shoutbow was more rewarding for much less effort.
Why go high reward = high risk if you can low risk = high reward?

Mesmer was always viable. It had a higher skill level to be viable + needed top partners to make it work, which is a difference.

Teams had to make a comp around mesmer/thief, which costs loads of time and effort.
As we know, lots of teams on EU and NA actually split after a while. Which is why it wasnt worth it going for a mesmer.

Not being in most teams comps doesnt mean its not viable.

Frost and Helseth actually debunked your theory.

To add to this terror..
Here is a history of mesmer that everyone seems to forget.

Fay.2357:

Mesmers started dropping out of the meta at the same time warrior was buffed. Recall that this was when they nerfed mainhand sword into the ground, making effective play much harder. It came back a little with double ranged shatter builds, but by the time those got much use, the condition meta hit and dunked mesmer out of the meta hard.

After the condition meta started getting toned down was when s/d thief skyrocketed in popularity, and forced mesmers to remain out of the meta for this period. Shortly thereafter, the celestial meta hit, and mesmers have remained out of the meta for the remainder of it.

At all points, a couple people still played mesmer. This, however, is anything but evidence of mesmer’s meta status. Even the very best mesmers in the game spent record time in downstate, and were ultimately only on the teams because of portal, and because their personal skill allowed them to bludgeon a non-viable class into use.

Lastly, as my original point that I made was about, that was foolishly disputed, at every single point in the history of play, the meta focused towards builds that were low effort, low risk, and high reward.

Again, being not in the meta comps doesnt mean it wasnt viable. It WAS always viable.
There’s a difference between optimal and viable

Power ranger was viable but not optimal

Saying mesmer sucked very hard as a burst class is simply wrong because it was back then one of the best duelists of all classes.

But as I said myself, the effort into going for optimal was a waste of time because ele and shout warrs were a better option. (low risk = high reward).

But pls, never say mesmer wasnt viable, it was just not optimal

“Not viable” means its not even good for average SoloQ plays, like Spirit Guardian.

In his defense and in consideration of your circumstantial definition as opposed to what others define as “viable” in the meta, he himself never actually stated that Mesmer isn’t viable. However, he did quote one of the top Mesmers in the game as stating such.

Top players say alot of things about their class and are obvious (mostly) biased.
5G called Slick Shoes balanced and “felt” Cele Engi didnt need to be nerfed.
Phanta/Walley said Cele Ele were fine and didnt need any adjusting (read; nerf).

There are some other top players calling out stuff but most are biased and will protect their main class and/or attack another class opposing theirs.

Helseth might’ve said mesmer is not optimal but Misha and Frost sure as hell said it is..

The real reason why most ppl also didnt pick mesmer was because of TCG’s split.
Their dreamteam of EU fell apart and so did their dreamteamcomp everyone tried to accomplish.

People in a MMO are like sheep (read: most of the ppl) and will follow not only builds but also comps in from top tier.

TCG’s split instantly shook up the average to above average teams and they got rid of their mesmers aswel (before introducing shoutwarr nevertheless).

I’m certainly not debating the fact having a mesmer back then was rewarding.
It was only rewarding if u had a team build around and put effort into it, like TCG did for 2 years straight (Team Kurse prev).

Teams came together in few weeks cant possibly make the mesmer optimal in their team.

Solution after some weeks: Shoutwarr.

Solori.6025:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Solori.6025:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Iavra.8510:

Oh noes, mesmer is actually viable the first time in 3 years, better get those nerfs rolling.

They were always viable, it just took more skill & team practice compared to now.

That myth has been debunked like months ago.
Mesmer’s havent been meta for some time.

Mesmers havent been meta because no1 outside helseth’s & frost’s teams actually put effort into playing with it (high risk = high reward)

Having 2 eles and/or shoutbow was more rewarding for much less effort.
Why go high reward = high risk if you can low risk = high reward?

Mesmer was always viable. It had a higher skill level to be viable + needed top partners to make it work, which is a difference.

Teams had to make a comp around mesmer/thief, which costs loads of time and effort.
As we know, lots of teams on EU and NA actually split after a while. Which is why it wasnt worth it going for a mesmer.

Not being in most teams comps doesnt mean its not viable.

Frost and Helseth actually debunked your theory.

To add to this terror..
Here is a history of mesmer that everyone seems to forget.

Fay.2357:

Mesmers started dropping out of the meta at the same time warrior was buffed. Recall that this was when they nerfed mainhand sword into the ground, making effective play much harder. It came back a little with double ranged shatter builds, but by the time those got much use, the condition meta hit and dunked mesmer out of the meta hard.

After the condition meta started getting toned down was when s/d thief skyrocketed in popularity, and forced mesmers to remain out of the meta for this period. Shortly thereafter, the celestial meta hit, and mesmers have remained out of the meta for the remainder of it.

At all points, a couple people still played mesmer. This, however, is anything but evidence of mesmer’s meta status. Even the very best mesmers in the game spent record time in downstate, and were ultimately only on the teams because of portal, and because their personal skill allowed them to bludgeon a non-viable class into use.

Lastly, as my original point that I made was about, that was foolishly disputed, at every single point in the history of play, the meta focused towards builds that were low effort, low risk, and high reward.

Again, being not in the meta comps doesnt mean it wasnt viable. It WAS always viable.
There’s a difference between optimal and viable

Power ranger was viable but not optimal

Saying mesmer sucked very hard as a burst class is simply wrong because it was back then one of the best duelists of all classes.

But as I said myself, the effort into going for optimal was a waste of time because ele and shout warrs were a better option. (low risk = high reward).

But pls, never say mesmer wasnt viable, it was just not optimal

“Not viable” means its not even good for average SoloQ plays, like Spirit Guardian.

Solori.6025:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Iavra.8510:

Oh noes, mesmer is actually viable the first time in 3 years, better get those nerfs rolling.

They were always viable, it just took more skill & team practice compared to now.

That myth has been debunked like months ago.
Mesmer’s havent been meta for some time.

Mesmers havent been meta because no1 outside helseth’s & frost’s teams actually put effort into playing with it (high risk = high reward)

Having 2 eles and/or shoutbow was more rewarding for much less effort.
Why go high reward = high risk if you can low risk = high reward?

Mesmer was always viable. It had a higher skill level to be viable + needed top partners to make it work, which is a difference.

Teams had to make a comp around mesmer/thief, which costs loads of time and effort.
As we know, lots of teams on EU and NA actually split after a while. Which is why it wasnt worth it going for a mesmer.

Not being in most teams comps doesnt mean its not viable.

Frost and Helseth actually debunked your theory.

Iavra.8510:

Oh noes, mesmer is actually viable the first time in 3 years, better get those nerfs rolling.

They were always viable, it just took more skill & team practice compared to now.

Here’s some info how it works:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I just want to know, who is actually buying gold? Because there must be a market for this, else they would not bother doing it.

Lots of ppl do but most will never tell.

They extend the Go4 series every 3 months, due the contracts being 3 months.

Its nothing special, just means they’ll carry on as they are.

Cheers

Friendly bump for you Olrun!
Hope to be working again with you next ToL

Cheers and goodluck (and welcome to EU)

Sincerely,

Denied

bhagwad.4281:

I really wonder why people sell gold. I mean isn’t there already a gem => gold conversion system up in place? Just buy gems and get gold. Why would anyone want to go outside the system?

Because its alot cheaper than the conversion you mentioned, attracting ppl with too much money on their hands.

However, it’s mostly those people who get their account banned or hacked later on.

arenta.2953:

Fenda.1398:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Thief is getting rifle tough

That assumption is entirely based on the trailer and coming from a five second lasting scene with a thief-looking NPC wielding a rifle. For all we know it could have been an Engineer as well, or one of those environmental sniper rifle NPCs.

We actually have the same level of proof that Thief is getting Staff as we had with Elementalists and their Warhorn. Datamining showed two things: A specialization background art for the elite specialization and a weapon skin akin to the weapon shown on the background art.

The specialization background art: http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png
And no, thats clearly not for Revenants. This one is brown/black/red, the colorcode of almost all Thief art, while the Revenant uses strong red tones with and pitch-black background.

The staff in question: [&AgFgEQEAAA==] , http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-staff.jpg
Totally looks like the Staff in the art piece.

For further information: http://dulfy.net/2015/06/24/gw2-upcoming-items-from-june-23-patch/

The ascended weapons shown all correspond to the specialization backgrounds known or datamined. The Bow clearly is from Braham (Dragonhunter), the Greatsword is from the Reaper, Warhorn is Elementalist and the Shield is somewhat Glint-y or Shatterer-y in appearance, hinting towards the Revenants Elite Specialization which we know will be Glint as a Legend while the Mesmer’s Shield in the trailer looked completly different and this one doesnt fit the theme of the Mesmer at all.

Chances for Thief getting Rifle as his first Elite Specialization weapon are in the 1% range right now, and as much as i´d love to have a 1.2k ranged weapon on my Thief, i hope the Staff brings back the viability of stealthless fighting. I hope its a bruiser style.

they changed Ele’s “sepcialization page” from sword to horn

they can do it to theif.

There was never “proof” Ele would get Sword.
Only speculations.

Tongku.5326:

IIvIIozzie.9250:

So we are nearing three years into Guild Wars 2, we’ve gotten some improvements along the way, but there still feels like there is a lot of stuff missing.

Queue times. Here’s a challenge developer’s, sit at your desk for a random amount of time, anywhere from 3-6 mins staring at your screen. Now play the game for 10 minutes. Stop. Now sit there and stare for 3-6 mins again. That’s what (un)ranked play is like. Add an extra minute on top for map chat.

Unranked. Why do we even have this? I get the idea behind why it’s there but is it really worth doubling the queue times? SPvP is not popular enough for this. Instead, why not…..

Add more server admin options. Give admins more rights and options to facilitate team games and allow admins to authorize additional admins so there is more coverage. Give admins the power to build sub communities. Admins should be able to do things like change the map, mute players across the server, disable secondary objectives, change game type, etc.

Map vote. Give hot join players the option to vote up the next map, get rid of this randomness while you’re at it. If 8 players vote for Foefire and 1 votes for Temple there should be a 0% chance temple wins. Majority rules. Hot join servers may also have an option turned on by the admin for game type vote.

More game types and maps. I realize you guys want to re-invent the wheel but please, stop it. STOP IT. It’s gimmicky and you’re wasting development time on things we don’t really care about. We are easier to please than you think. Give us things that you know will work. Give us things like GW1-type PVP AKA Last Team Standing. That would be a great, fast paced mode. How about capture the flag? (Team) Deathmatch? And no, not the courtyard team deathmatch where everyone is expecting conquest and getting stuck in a game type their build isn’t viable for. Having four map choices in ranked is so repetitious and boring, you have so many assets to reuse, do it!

VOIP. Not having VOIP in your game is having a much bigger impact than you know. The reason why the PVP community is so “toxic” is because you can’t jump into pug’s and coordinate anything. It frustrates the hell out of player’s to the point where the only thing they can get out quickly is insults. PVP require’s so much clicking it’s not realistic to expect team leader’s to write out instructions on what to do. What is the counter argument to this? “It’s expensive to implement” – free to play games have it, games over a decade old have it. It can’t be that challenging to incorporate. Is somebody being a kitten on the mic? right click + mute. Just like map chat, problem solved.

Detailed statistics. I don’t really care if it’s view able by the community, I just want pages and pages of stats to review.

PVP rewards. It shouldn’t be easier to earn dungeon rewards in PVP, but it is. I don’t understand why dungeon rewards were ever added to pvp to begin with, other than an excuse to not have to work on unique skins for PVP. Each game type should have unique skins. Doing so would encourage players to try out various game types.

In-game tournament options. This is a long shot but it would be a nice feature.

I could go on and on but really, if just the things above were added PvP in GW2 would actually be exciting.

voip – nope. this is what TS, mumble, vent, skype, etc are for. again, no need to waste dev resources when something is already being used and done much better. only improvement i would make here is one i have seen in another game (i forgot which game it was) when you join/make a party there is a button that pops out which you can click and it connects you to a TS server with temporary channel for that party. once party disbands the channel self deletes. but i do not want anet to waste time on voip.

SoloQ’ers and w/e non 5 premade team WILL benefit from the VOIP.
We know about TS and other third party VOiP but think about players who actually queue solo or with a small party. They cant just quickly give their (personal) TS to randoms and expect them to be there under 1:30mins time..

VOiP is necessary for non 5premade teams to have an equal chance vs the 5 man premade as opponents.

Then the matchmaking can stay as it is; since everyone has the chance to communicate with eachother and cant use “5man premade with TS” as an excuse.

I support the Admin options for Arenas.

As one of the Head of AG EU, its sometimes quite a hastle to find someone not only to admin an arena, but also is an arena-owner. Not an owner? Can’t make use of the commands.

VOIP is also something I would like to see into the game.
Having problems with noisy trolls? Just mute.
I’m 100% convinced there will be more serious players using the VOIP than actual trolls who would abuse it to harass. (which again, u can mute)

PvP rewards: yes and no.
I like the fact u can unlock skins/tokens and exotic gear as a PvP’er through the tracks.

But I also agree on unique skins per game-type. Which we have only for FoTM (weps/backpack) and PvP.

Chill is probably the best condition to apply vs an OP Ele after he swapped from Water.

nacario.9417:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Pretty much wasted my effort and gold making Bolt a year ago.. Kinda miss S/D Thief.

Time for you to reroll S/D ranger then!

Yes, because Ranger are more than viable atm.. cries

Pretty much wasted my effort and gold making Bolt a year ago.. Kinda miss S/D Thief.

Im not a no-lifer, what r u saying?!
(this is NA account excluded, though)

Problem is ppl could abuse such a thing to blacklist “bad” players aswel, or atleast ppl u dont want to play with.

Which would end up ‘exploiting’ your way to only good teams.

Same, cant enter the game once I select a character, gives a very long “connection issue” text

EDIT: working now

… “How much time does it take to add a +10% heal increase on Withdraw for an Anet Dev?”

Answer: Long but you get increased CD for the lolz.

Joke aside, when are we going to get the promised +10% increase in heal on Withdraw?
I really dont get how we already got the CD increase but no heal increase on that exact same skill.

The problem works both sides:

• you have the people who rage and leave
• you have the bad matchups

Although, I won’t call any names cough (EU) Prince Vin cough gets into a good solid team but is not as good as other people on the team and blames/flames the people of his team because he gets farmed. And ultimately ragequits the game for dying himself thousands times over.

Those kind of people actually deserve a nice treat:

• first time leaving + reported for Verbal Abuse: 60 minutes ban
• second time leaving + reported for Verbal Abuse: 24 hours ban
• third time leaving + reported for Verbal Abuse: 72hours ban
• etc

The thing is that people who are ragequitting the match, 90% of the times are flaming the team before they do so (aka Verbal Abuse).

Implenting the above said system should leave out the real DC’ers over ragequitters.

Something needs to happen. That kind of players are actually one of the biggest reasons new players are staying away; they feel guilty and bad while actually, they performed quite good but dont know about it due the Verbal Abuse against them.

Curunen.8729:

Terrorsquad.4802:

phokus.8934:

This is the most ridiculous post about “fixing” mesmers I’ve ever seen.

I find it comical that non-mesmers try to fix other classes.

While mesmer-mains are protecting the class and throwing 99% of the suggestions into oblivion..

Oooh the irony…

Because we’ve already largely agreed on the issues that need dealing with – definitely PU and CS, some for Blinding Dissipation and MoD (due to background recharging).

The other “99%” of suggestions are misguided nonsense.

Weird, u already stated 75% of the suggested “misguided nonsense” in that same comment.

I made so many threads (on main account) about the bad matchmaking and the fact MMR’s are too broad in a team most of the times.. I had 0 response either.

phokus.8934:

This is the most ridiculous post about “fixing” mesmers I’ve ever seen.

I find it comical that non-mesmers try to fix other classes.

While mesmer-mains are protecting the class and throwing 99% of the suggestions into oblivion..

Oooh the irony…

Bumping is not directly allowed following forumrules but Im quite the rebel.

/bump

jportell.2197:

T raw.4658:

1. Mesmer loses blind
2. Ele loses blind
3. Mesmer can no longer use mantras while stun/dazed/etc.

Start with that

Than you defeat the purpose of the mantras. Instant cast=used while stunned. If we are going to do that all instant cast skills need to be unable to be used while stunned aside from stun breakers

That’s actually YOUR idea of purposes from mantras and/or instant skills. There are infact skill which are instant but cant be casted while CC’d..

Jaxom.7310:

have u tried sum hotjoin since the last time we talked aboot this? u rally shuld

Why would I try hotjoin? Ranked/matchmaking already making this look like Hotjoin!

Im talking about actual Conquest, not Mini-WvW.

You’re asking on how to counter something OP..

It wouldnt be OP if you could counter it while being viable in Conquest..

I even made a dedicated map, just for screenshots of bad matchups, just for you <3

Following matchmaking, we’re so good we’re facing esports top WTS team.
Basically we can go WTS for free now, right?

And again, month later, matchmaking still sucks and broken, doesnt work.

When are you going to tweak those numbers you said?
The reason u changed the system behind matchmaking was the make it easy to change/edit.. here we are, half year later, still broken.

When are you finally going to use the system u implented and boast about?!

Do you honestly think SoloQ’s are waiting 3-6mins in Queue (while dying of boredom) to crush newbies or getting stomped 500-100 by premades? WAKE UP if you dont want to lose your PvP Playerbase (which is already this small by “balanced” mesmer/ele)

Vieux P.1238:

there wont be any mesmer nerf! So live with it & go mesmer.

Fixed it for you

jportell.2197:

Terrorsquad.4802:

PowerBottom.5796:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Extreme.8350:

Kenmei.7138:

Mesmer is totally braindead class right now mostly for “wannabe pros”. Except the good ones prepatch, 90% of them are totally carried by the OP class mechanics.

Yes , it’s a rant post.

I have played against ur guild visceral effect and they are totally brainless too
We dont see abjured with mesmer hmm i wonder why

Obvious Mesmer-not-OP-Protector is obvious..
Stop protecting something thats broken, like really..

The only reason why The abjured are not playing mesmer is because they have no Mesmer-player…. Almost every other top-team, especially in EU, run mesmers. It’s clearly one of the best classes atm, there’s absolutely no denying that.

The big question is how to balance it correctly.

—> Confounding suggestions only stuns if a skill was interrupted

And..:

• Blind on Shatter on ICD
• No Mantra’s while CC’d

Blind on shatter needs the bug fix to not go through evades. And not using mantras while cc’d would defeat the entire purpose of mantras.

it wont defeat the “entire” purpose… It stays instant for the rest of the time you’re not CC’d. Making it not instant would defeat the “entire” purpose..

PowerBottom.5796:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Extreme.8350:

Kenmei.7138:

Mesmer is totally braindead class right now mostly for “wannabe pros”. Except the good ones prepatch, 90% of them are totally carried by the OP class mechanics.

Yes , it’s a rant post.

I have played against ur guild visceral effect and they are totally brainless too
We dont see abjured with mesmer hmm i wonder why

Obvious Mesmer-not-OP-Protector is obvious..
Stop protecting something thats broken, like really..

The only reason why The abjured are not playing mesmer is because they have no Mesmer-player…. Almost every other top-team, especially in EU, run mesmers. It’s clearly one of the best classes atm, there’s absolutely no denying that.

The big question is how to balance it correctly.

—> Confounding suggestions only stuns if a skill was interrupted

And..:

• Blind on Shatter on ICD
• No Mantra’s while CC’d

Extreme.8350:

Kenmei.7138:

Mesmer is totally braindead class right now mostly for “wannabe pros”. Except the good ones prepatch, 90% of them are totally carried by the OP class mechanics.

Yes , it’s a rant post.

I have played against ur guild visceral effect and they are totally brainless too
We dont see abjured with mesmer hmm i wonder why

Obvious Mesmer-not-OP-Protector is obvious..
Stop protecting something thats broken, like really..

Drayos.8759:

lordhelmos.7623:

While it will be god mode in pvp, the entire elite spec is shut down by mantra of distraction.

how do u even know that is the case without any insight of the specc? Lol. Ur Just making stuff up now and throwing at the fact he does not have a Sword, lmfao you have no idea what will and will not counter it til the preview goes live.

Reaper will be SLow as hell and shut down by merely being ranged and capable of kiting, people will still be using it in pvp and it prolly still work in a way, Just because ONE proffession counters it, doesnt make it useless Everything NEEDS to have a counter.

It’s in the description that every overcharge of attunement will take anywhere between 2.75 to 5 seconds. So anyone with atleast a bit of a brain and CC can have a go at the Tempest going Overcharge.

Jelzouki.4128:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Jelzouki.4128:

Seriously, I understand that it’s somehow part of guardians class mechanic, and I even understand elementalists having it, but mesmers and thieves need to have a lot less of it..

Stopped reading after I read this.
Burst classes with MUCH less survivability should have LESS defensive mechanics and bunkers/bruisers need more? Ok.

I never said they need more. I said what they have is fine. The fact of the matter is that thieves and mesmers can spam blinds and dazes. An ele and a guardian apply blinds but they can be avoided a lot easier, without outrageous damage.

Thief blinding is fine, since it costs alot of ini but I agree mesmer blinding (trait) is too much and should have an ICD, but thats all..

Jelzouki.4128:

Seriously, I understand that it’s somehow part of guardians class mechanic, and I even understand elementalists having it, but mesmers and thieves need to have a lot less of it..

Stopped reading after I read this.
Burst classes with MUCH less survivability should have LESS defensive mechanics and bunkers/bruisers need more? Ok.

choban.9027:

Terrorsquad.4802:

And I never exploited anything in w/e game, not sure why you’re targetting me.

Probably because one of the guys in this video trying to get the buff (exploit) is next to you on your screenshot….

You’re right, didn’t notice. Wasn’t with him nor am I protecting him, though. Pure coincidence. If he was exploiting aswel, ban the guy.

Jayne.9251:

Terrorsquad.4802:

I am actually amazed how ppl are actually using the exploit to get the golem buff when not in the golem.

Give us a exploit/cheat report option ASAP.

Why dont we get this so u guys can get the culprits..

Fix the exploit.

Odd.

You hate one type of cheating, but you’ll exploit another?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYXIryrv39M

Not sure what you mean but that exploit needs to go, idc what server is using them.
Is it mine, is it yours, is it alien’s server.. I really dont care. That exploit needs to go.

And I never exploited anything in w/e game, not sure why you’re targetting me.

Waleran.9065:

Terrorsquad.4802:

I am actually amazed how ppl are actually using the exploit to get the golem buff when not in the golem.

Give us a exploit/cheat report option ASAP.

Why dont we get this so u guys can get the culprits..

Fix the exploit.

ok thug live be carefull because of … IT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYXIryrv39M

Say hi in the video dude.

Im not on it, why do I need to say hi?

JediYoda.1275:

send all the info pics/video to exploits@arena.net

Is that even real? o.O

Subject: Exploit
Where: WvW
Description: Ppl can keep the golem buff to use on their characters (+100% dps)

This is utterly gamebreaking.

Also, give us a cheat/exploit report option, no idea why we dont get this.
We feel useless when we’re 100% sure someone is exploiting/cheating and you’re like protecting them since we can’t report them..