Guild Wars 2

NotOverlyCheesy.9427:

That’s like saying a legit player has to leave Auric Basin after getting 200% participation if they see someone using position hack to tear down octovine’s stacks or a WvW player has to change server if he knows someone from his server is hacking to gain an advantage. Leaving doesn’t accomplish anything.

A legit player doesn’t have the power to stop other player from exploiting. Exploiters shouldn’t have the power to stop other players from playing legit. Kicking legit players is disrupting their gameplay.

No it’s really not.

What your trying to do is really badly use a red herring. No one is stopping them from playing. They still have options, like the right to start their own party and play the game how they want to, free using of exploits.

If they opt to join a group, key word here opt (they were never forced too join said group); they can also opt to leave said group if it doesn’t align with their method of play.

I know that’s horribly complex, and a foreign concept but why not go out there and try it.

NotOverlyCheesy.9427:

TexZero.7910:

NotOverlyCheesy.9427:

TexZero.7910:

Petrol.9086:

Why can’t people just play the kittening game. How lazy do you have to be to go out of your way to do as little as possible in a game you supposedly play for relaxation and fun.

It’s a game; some people play for fun, others play for speed clear, while some play for the rewards.

Most people, not just limited to gamers will always opt for the path of least resistance in life. If you’re not one of those people, great there’s a solution put in some effort find a like minded group and go have fun.

It’s the same as this https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/202948/image.jpg

….Now go play how you want.

The problem is that in LFG most of the groups ad their run as “56-67-77”. A guy who doesn’t want to use the exploit gets kicked during 67 after doing 56 just fine. Is it right to force other people to use exploits when the LFG ad doesn’t indicate any particular method.

The gun isn’t at their head. If they see people exploiting they do not have to stay in said group and are more than capable of starting their own.

You missed the point. The moral dilemma was not if the guy who doesnt want to exploit should stay or not. It was that do the other people have the right to kick him for not breaking under the pressure to use exploits himself. Joining a simple “56-67-77” should not force anyone to use exploits. If people do want to use exploits, they should name it in the LFG as “56-67-77 tree exploiting”

You missed the entire point yourself there bud.
If said person has such a strong moral compass then why are they even sticking around, let alone sticking around to the point of being kicked ?

A simple right click leave party solves the problem for the moral compass, as does forming their own group of like minded players.

It’s that simple.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dead-players-dragging-everybody-down/first#post4564908

Here’s yet another source of encouraging the long walk of shame.

Daddicus.6128:

TexZero.7910:

Since you think i’m treating you like an idiot for pointing out the obvious let me simplify it for you even more.

What gain is there for dying and running back. Each waypoint cost both time and money. Excessive waypointing can lead to cost above what you would potentially net from killing the boss or a lack of event credit. Therefore it cannot possibly be an exploit per definition of the word.

Again, you’re missing the whole point. Look above this post, and count how many people have said it’s a good idea. I’ve already said I don’t believe they are correct.

But the fact that that’s the way many people play makes glass cannons a legitimate build (to them). They hope they live, but if they don’t, no big loss. Just WP.

And, it’s a large majority of players who hold that position. So, if EVERYBODY runs a glass cannon, … well you figure it out.

You’re missing the point because frankly you want to.

Stats arent the problem. It’s still not an exploit to utilize the tools provided to you such as waypoints. Since this is aimed specifically at world bosses (LOOT PINATA’S), they handle any claim of exploiting by dynamically scalling.

QED – You’re wrong.

Clearer and Larger icons/text in general would be nice.

Half the time i can’t see the number of stacks buff/debuff has due to the color pallet/contrast etc….

I’d just like to see the system changed slightly.

Award the statue, but have it change over time like how the Guild Hall Crystal changes.
Since ultimately that’s the real aim. Leave the fragments/bits there as decoration materials as some of them are quite nice.

Ayrilana.1396:

How much damage does CoR doing in WvW right now?

Assuming the exact same stat and buffs as above, how much damage do high damage skills from other classes do?

This really depends on trait interactions

This Swift Termination + Cruel Reprecussion can hit for easily 20K.

The problem lies with Cruel Repercussions and the low cooldown. Without CR, you’re looking at a high end 8-10k even against squishy targets.

Deniara Devious.3948:

The current state of CoR is actually good/better for WvWvW and making that skill any better will push it back to extreme overpowered status.

Again people are under the assumption for some reason that they wont take the time to tone down the skill.

It’s pretty obvious the damage co-efficient is a tad high, and the cooldown is laughably low. Expect this to change. However don’t expect your dying to it to change if all you do is stand still and eat damage, like a fat kid eats donuts.

Azure Prower.8701:

TexZero.7910:

I’m all for removing them and giving players meaningful trade-offs at the adept tier trait level (since that’s where most fall damage traits are located)

So what about thieves? Considering it’s a GRAND MASTER trait?

Uncouple it from the GM, buff the GM by merging it with Shadow’s Rejuvenation. Create new GM trait ?

I mean there’s options a plenty.

I’m all for removing them and giving players meaningful trade-offs at the adept tier trait level (since that’s where most fall damage traits are located)

NotOverlyCheesy.9427:

TexZero.7910:

Petrol.9086:

Why can’t people just play the kittening game. How lazy do you have to be to go out of your way to do as little as possible in a game you supposedly play for relaxation and fun.

It’s a game; some people play for fun, others play for speed clear, while some play for the rewards.

Most people, not just limited to gamers will always opt for the path of least resistance in life. If you’re not one of those people, great there’s a solution put in some effort find a like minded group and go have fun.

It’s the same as this https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/202948/image.jpg

….Now go play how you want.

The problem is that in LFG most of the groups ad their run as “56-67-77”. A guy who doesn’t want to use the exploit gets kicked during 67 after doing 56 just fine. Is it right to force other people to use exploits when the LFG ad doesn’t indicate any particular method.

The gun isn’t at their head. If they see people exploiting they do not have to stay in said group and are more than capable of starting their own.

Behellagh.1468:

Good luck Jeff.

And this is the 2nd ANet person who left for Amazon in the last 6 months.

It’s like the 4th or 5th person that we know of….

Petrol.9086:

Why can’t people just play the kittening game. How lazy do you have to be to go out of your way to do as little as possible in a game you supposedly play for relaxation and fun.

It’s a game; some people play for fun, others play for speed clear, while some play for the rewards.

Most people, not just limited to gamers will always opt for the path of least resistance in life. If you’re not one of those people, great there’s a solution put in some effort find a like minded group and go have fun.

It’s the same as this https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/202948/image.jpg

….Now go play how you want.

Nausicca.6038:

TexZero.7910:

What planet are we on again that punishes coordination ?

Tell me more about coordination a on 2 sec brainless spamming skill. Oh wait, 4 sec now. Lol coordination.

Love out of context quotes, they make your point infinitely less valid. I never once said the skills were perfectly balanced, quite the opposite. Continue reading next time and maybe you’ll understand.

DanAlcedo.3281:

Ayrilana.1396:

DanAlcedo.3281:

NONONONONONO! Pls not! WvW is finaly playable without 14k+ CoR´s at every corner.

Now im sad

It shouldn’t be any different than if you were standing in multiple lava fonts.

It is ok by now. You dont that much CoR´s around after the patch. So many people praised anet for this change.

And now…. Back to One Shot everything hahahahaha….

And a GLOBAL ICD is acceptable ?

What planet are we on again that punishes coordination ?

Just tone down the damage of CoR make it so each impact zone can only be triggered once per cast, per target. Then increase the cooldown of the skill from 4 second CD to a 6 second CD.

There problem solved for WvW.

Also if you get spiked out by two or more congrats, welcome to WvW it’s no different than the old RatWells nonsense.

Scorched Earth is an even easier fix, make it one contiguous field, increase base damage and burning slightly.

Since you think i’m treating you like an idiot for pointing out the obvious let me simplify it for you even more.

What gain is there for dying and running back. Each waypoint cost both time and money. Excessive waypointing can lead to cost above what you would potentially net from killing the boss or a lack of event credit. Therefore it cannot possibly be an exploit per definition of the word.

Now then let me further invalidate your claim. The addition of reviving allies counting toward “credit” does not make your statement about this being an exploit valid, instead it only undermines your intent. If someone is dead, they are not contributing and thus at risk of not getting event credit. So how is dying and waiting for a revive “an exploit” when the only person who would get credit is the person who revives you.

Daddicus.6128:

They do this because the claim is that the dead person counts against the scaling, but as soon as the dead person WPs out, the creature scales down to the now-smaller number of characters. IF they are correct, then we’re in what I call an exploit.

TIL: The built in mechanic of dynamic mobs scaling is an exploit.

Playing the game as intended is not an exploit.

Sorry, please go learn what constitutes an exploit.

Who cares anymore, like really ?

If you don’t want to run with a group that exploits, get some like minded friends and form a party or guild.

If you’re going into a pug group expecting anything other than the path of least resistance you’re going to be in for disappointment every time.

You have to be attuned to the guardian, kill it and then kill VG.

So you’ll have to do this 2-3 times.

displayname.8315:

As recent as last month they commented on the new changes comming from Reyana and other commanders. In this dev post here – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-vs-World-Holiday-Sneak-Peek

I hope they keep working with the main WvW commanders or at least “take their feedback to heart” like they said in the post.

Many people would disagree with taking the “T1” commanders advice on fixing WvW and would rather use it as trashcan material.

The problem with listening to a cherry picked interview is that you are only getting 1 perspective. Additionally from what i remember seeing of those only one commander gave an global overview of WvW health, the others were all exceedingly biased.

because, in that blog post about fixing older festivals, they kinda forgot this one.

Ensign.2189:

TexZero.7910:

The recent changes to both CoR and Scorched Earth come to mind as changed made for either mode that are in direct opposition of another gameplay mode.

The Scorched Earth change was made for PvE (specifically raids) and is inconsequential (if anything an improvement) in PvP. What’s the need for a split?

The CoR change was made for WvW with additional benefits for sPvP (where it wasn’t a problem only because it’s harder to maintain range and the weapon was much less viable as a result). Does a higher cooldown on CoR cause any problems in PvE? I guess it makes it a bit harder to tag mobs when zerging open world events.

TexZero.7910:

Additionally, most of the mesmer nerfs have had sweeping rippling effects through PvE, even though the majority of it (sans Pre-cog) were aimed at PvP.

Are you talking about the alacrity changes? Those were not aimed specifically at sPvP, but were made as a wide net to a mechanic that was broken in every game mode. Alacrity was more oppressive in sPvP than in raids, but it needed to be nerfed hard in raids just as much as it needed to be hit elsewhere.

Scorched Earth was nerfed for PvE, this is correct. However the Global ICD imposed on both it and CoR were lazy fixes that hinder gameplay across all game modes where there may be one or more players using the skills.

The mesmer nerfs go as far back as the original nerf to quickness, going from 100% down to 50. It was a changed aimed primarily at PvE but slowly pushed them out of being viable in PvP as well. Couple this with the now change to Alacrity which ultimately was fine in PvE, had to be changed in PvP because it allowed for high impact skills to be used too much in succession.

I mean i can keep going and bringing up nerfs to any mode that hindered others, if you would like….It’s nothing new with GW2.

Harny.6012:

The citizens are in panic and such big war… bosses and dragons… and you want to play games?

Dragon is dead jim.

Continue on with games.

Harper.4173:

First of all the number of insights increases per week.
Second of all I don’t think you understood the method.

The splitting is not the actual test – you can split as fast as you can copy/paste.
The pinging is the test – the sequence and how fast you can ping it.
You can’t pre set-up this because guess what – the sequence I’m going to ask for will be random.
It might include pinging the stack of 5 insights once, or 20 times, intertwined with other pings for other stacks. You can’t prepare for it. You have to do it on the spot – and you can copy/paste the codes provided you have all of them – but it will take you longer to copy and paste a code and send it than it would take you to ping it from your inventory.

Over a sequence of 2-3 codes the let’s say 1 second delay between actual inventory pinging and copy/pasting might not be big enough to be conclusive – but over a let’s say a sequence of 20 codes – if you lose 0.5 seconds because you’re not pinging and are copy/pasting and it’s just a bit slower – well that’s 10 seconds.

So if I give you a sequence of 20 – and you’re let’s say 5 seconds slower than I calculate you should be – I’ll kick you.

I don’t think you understand how this works.

People can and will have macro’s to copy/paste any number of insights you can imagine from here to 250.

So please come up with the human genome of complex sequences if you want, people will out play your little test.

Godmoney.2048:

That doesnt answer the question in the slightest. Give me a example of this mindbendingly difficult content in Gw2 that needs sweeping PVE buffs to accomplish.

Serious, what content in Gw2 needs rebalancing so much that you can’t just knock off some hitpoints.

Let’s see changing hitpoints on a single mob > Rebalancing 100’s of interconnecting skills for no other reason than a few players have trouble in pve

Again, what mob in gw2 is giving you this much trouble?

Right by this logic lets re-introduce all the tank amulets to PvP. Remind me about that removing hitpoints argument again when your conquest mode is bunker city.

Changing hitpoints in PvE is a bandaid fix that often times trivializes what the encounters were designed to do. It does the exact opposite of what you want balance to do which is have meaningful inputs and choice.

They just need to go back to basics for PvP and put everyone on a level playing field. Elite specs/runes/sigils all auto unlocked only in HoTM.

That way these complaints stop.

Godmoney.2048:

You really find PVE so difficult that you think it needs different balance?

Are you soloing raids? As a 4000+ hour player with 15k chievo points i can’t fathom what could possibly be causing anyone so much trouble they would need the game balanced for PVE.

What encounter in PVE is giving you this much trouble that the devs should re-balance 100’s of different skills?

As to why they should do this, they had been doing it previously and there are still some skills not entirely unsplit from PvP/PvE balance. One could legitimately argue that the overall state of combat was healthier due to this.

Ensign.2189:

As I always like to ask in these threads, please provide an example of a balance change made for PvP reasons that had unacceptable consequences for PvE, or a balance change for PvE that had unacceptable consequences for PvP.

There are times and places for splitting skill functionality between different game modes, but I can’t think of any balance changes from the past year or so that would demand it.

The recent changes to both CoR and Scorched Earth come to mind as changed made for either mode that are in direct opposition of another gameplay mode. Additionally, most of the mesmer nerfs have had sweeping rippling effects through PvE, even though the majority of it (sans Pre-cog) were aimed at PvP.

The change to necro in general this patch scream PvP balance changes, that have little to no impact on their PvE viability.

This is why both balance needs to be done on a per mode basis, because last i check i don’t play conquest in PvE, and you don’t kill bosses with 22million HP in PvP.

I’m all for separating all modes of play and balancing around them. However that is way more time and resources than Anet current cares to allocate. Which is a shame as it would go a long way in increasing the overall health and stability of all game modes.

Harper.4173:

TexZero.7910:

Harper.4173:

spoj.9672:

Doesnt it take longer to split a stack of insights than it does to change a chat code?

You split them into the required stacks BEFORE the ping sequence is given – after you have you splits done the required ping sequence is given. Then you must ping the said split stacks in a certain order during a period of time that would be shorter than what it would take you to change chat codes.

…………….

http://gw2.ninja/chatcodes
[&AgH2LQEA]
Why yes it’s going to take so much time /sarcasm.

You do realize i can make any number of a valid stack faster than you can blink right ?

Sure – but can you ping those stacks in a given order faster than someone who is doing it out of the inventory?

That’s the real test – I’m surprised people don’t understand.
It’s not having the stacks but being able to ping them in a certain unique pattern quickly enough.

Do I need to create a diagram?

There’s only so much you can say before you dig a ditch you cant get out of. There’s a total max of 33 (if you’ve raided and killed every boss every week) splitting a stack down to any number between 1-33 and having a copy paste for that is simple.

Do i need to create a cheat-sheet just to show it to you ?

I was actually just having this same discussion with a guild mate.

They need a clear design direction with minimal balancing changes. None of this “Look to drastically shift the meta”. Just a sequence of smaller changes over time. Releasing newer maps or changing some map mechanics to add value to them so people play the mode and map. A shift away from Conquest as the primary mode of balance and instead shift toward 5 man TDM-e mode. Where the balance is done strictly based on the profession and not the mode it’s used in. Splitting balance between PvP and PvE.

Until this happens every mode will be in utter chaos with every patch.

They still need to fix the Battle Standard / Poison Field interactions.

They are inconsistent across the board. Sometimes you’ll res them, others they won’t res, and the 3rd one which is comical, they res with 1 hp and die to poison ticks.

Talyn.3295:

TexZero.7910:

Harper.4173:

spoj.9672:

Doesnt it take longer to split a stack of insights than it does to change a chat code?

You split them into the required stacks BEFORE the ping sequence is given – after you have you splits done the required ping sequence is given. Then you must ping the said split stacks in a certain order during a period of time that would be shorter than what it would take you to change chat codes.

…………….

http://gw2.ninja/chatcodes
[&AgH2LQEA]
Why yes it’s going to take so much time /sarcasm.

You do realize i can make any number of a valid stack faster than you can blink right ?

I was trying to stay out of this discussion, mostly cause I don’t care one way or the other who makes you ping what.

But making someone display their all their character info, including bags and insights on gw2efficiency kinda negates any use of those codes. Now of course you can say well in that case I won’t let them look at my stuff, which of course amounts to the same thing, you just got filtered.

Most raiders have an account, you can look in what they have in their bags. Right then you can see if they have the wrong gear in their bags or if they don’t have the insight requirement.

It’s kinda a moot point, ya know?

I understand your point. I was also staying out of it till the what was easily the most ignorant comment i’ve seen was made.

It all boils down to this, people who want to raid will find a way to raid. Legitimately or otherwise. Eventually, this will happen https://youtu.be/78ICiQKdO-Q?t=22s

Harper.4173:

spoj.9672:

Doesnt it take longer to split a stack of insights than it does to change a chat code?

You split them into the required stacks BEFORE the ping sequence is given – after you have you splits done the required ping sequence is given. Then you must ping the said split stacks in a certain order during a period of time that would be shorter than what it would take you to change chat codes.

…………….

http://gw2.ninja/chatcodes
[&AgH2LQEA]
Why yes it’s going to take so much time /sarcasm.

You do realize i can make any number of a valid stack faster than you can blink right ?

https://account.arena.net/content/download/gw2/win64

^ solves most crash issues, pending you have a 64bit OS.

About the only reason i currently dislike HoT is some of the lackluster gameplay and design choices being made.

From a balance perspective, we’ve regressed and regressed hard. Going to a uniform system has honestly made the game worse off.

From a “fun” perspective, while yes there’s more to do…it’s all gated behind timers instead of actions. Additionally, content was made obsolete for the sole intention of moving people into other more rewarding modes/area’s unfortunately the rewards team and economist are leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO’s and that’s killing a lot of gameplay.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Dahkeus.8243:

However, from the way I’m reading it now, not only does this change prevent double ticks, but this will probably negate a lot of burns if you have multiple people using Scorched Earth on the same target.

It doesn’t have problems like that for multiple people using it. It’s per-use of the skill, I just think the wording was difficult for them communicating it clearly in the patch notes.

It actually does suffer this. The target has an ICD after being hit by “ANY” Scorched Earth.

Which is rather dumb. Because now people will just stack Ele’s and abuse Meteor Shower. Let’s put an ICD per target on that too while we are at it….

Why would they. It’s a dead product, the servers are only being kept up for people to get their HoM points.

mulzi.8273:

TexZero.7910:

Deotronomio.1962:

Massively Multiplayer Online means that alot of people get into a game to play it, not that you are obligated to play with groups of people. We should have the choice to play solo or with groups of people.

Show me the gun to your head that’s obligating you play with others ?

Cause lets all be real here….you can do pretty much everything (sans boss killing/100% meta progression) solo in HoT.

Put yourself in a solo persons mindset for 2 minutes. <snipped>.

I’ve been there done that and have the Liadri title to show for it. I understand how awesome solo content can be. I often run through the world doing events solo.
That doesn’t at all mean i feel like im forced to “Group or Die”, or “Group or Fail”…..That’s just absurd hyperbole aimed at getting someone to feel sympathetic for the wrong reasons.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Can you use GS in Shroud? I thought you could only use Shroud skills….

Use it before you shroud….it’s a field. You kinda place those first then use combo’s after.

There’s a section like this as well hidden in LP.

Actually it seems they’ve removed that jump pad. It used to be here.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I thought you could only create a Dark field with a Reaper, once in Shroud. Does a Necromancer have a skill in Shroud that creates a Dark field/Leeching Bolts? If not, then perhaps Karl was referring to the base-line of Reaper Shrouds. Or…that the references to base-line Shroud and Leeching Bolts were two separate balance updates. They were, after all, two different and disparate sentences.

Sorry, I’m not that good with builds.

GS4 & Drop any non healing well from necro …So 4 Dark Fields.

Deotronomio.1962:

Massively Multiplayer Online means that alot of people get into a game to play it, not that you are obligated to play with groups of people. We should have the choice to play solo or with groups of people.

Show me the gun to your head that’s obligating you play with others ?

Cause lets all be real here….you can do pretty much everything (sans boss killing/100% meta progression) solo in HoT.

Hero challenges, while providing some problems can be done solo. Meta event’s while problematic at first glance all have ways of being completed even by a single player.

So what’s the real issue here ?
Is it a learn to play issue, or the game just really isn’t for you issue ?

laokoko.7403:

The price is same as old legendary, I’m not sure why the game suddenly become Grindy. It always was grindy.

Made 4 legendaries prior to HoT. Never felt as burned out as i do now, and it’s mostly due to the fact that i have less viable means of acquiring gold, or the items i need. This is the entire problem with the current legendaries.

HighGuy.2794:

Leablo.2651:

You really want us to make 16 extra clicks?

…Really? It’s clicking a mouse, not hefting a couch up a flight of stairs.

That said, if you move the vendor window down and line the envelope up with the “Accept” button it’s really not an issue.

It’s a principal issue. Too many idiot boxes in game currently and menial clicking for things.

It’s one thing to safeguard a player from deleting a valuable but, to protect them from purchases that don’t harm them ?

Robert Devine.3087:

Does anyone else agree that spending as much resources they do on an aspect of the game the clearly are failing at is a waste? The money could be spent in other places, sad to say because I joined this game for pvp but they are really blowing it. Pro players manipulating matches, tt is hardly watched by anyone, they refuse to do anything about purposeful trolling. I am sorry but this is not Esports not even close.

Disagree entirely.

GW2 can be an esport. It won’t ever be the scale of SC2, LoL, DoTA2, CS:GO. But it doesn’t need to be. Right now there’s there’s a void for MMORPG in the esport arena, and has been ever since MLG dropped WoW’s arena’s.

Onto the cost point, it’s a foolish assumption to think that what minor spending they are doing on esports is ruining the game. Lets break this down into two parts for sanity sake money spent and ruining the game. The money being fronted for esports in only being done in part, with larger more prominent organizations taking the lead ESL/Twitch/Intel/Alienware/BenQ and Khongzhong are all working sponsors in this endeavor. They help cover most if not all event cost, with Anet putting up likely less than half of the monetary investment.

Now onto ruining the game. It’s a foolish notion to think esports is solely responsible for the decline of production quality/QA. Instead it’s far more likely that the people leaving the company caused this. We already know of several former leads leaving, people who worked on core systems or were prominent within the community for communicating and iterating on player feedback.

However if you wish to ignore all the changes and want to focus on one aspect because the tin foil hat commands you, then sure blame esports since it’s the only buzzword people seem to cling too right now.

Coulter.2315:

TexZero.7910:

Instead of starting from the ground up and making the entire process something achievable by even the casual crowd, they’ve actually gone and pushed it into a very niche grind centric crowd.

Yes.. Because they wanted something that people couldn’t get quickly… (Do you even know what the discussion is on btw? Legendary Weapons, literally BY DESIGN not for casuals)

Far greater than you do. Congrats on parphrasing out of context.

For your own information, i was not the one to bring up the casual content argument. That argument was made by the people who believe the current system is fine, even for casuals.

Now then since you’re too oblivious to get the problem here’s summary just for you.

Amalgamated Gemstones are being utilized to maintain part of the gold cost of the current legendary craft. There’s currently 3 Legendaries that use them and the prices are actually being manipulated by the current economic policy to make every have “value”. This value is being determined artificially by linking it to “other items in a set tier”. Let me put this in perspective for you now, those gemstones will only increase in value as more Legendaries are released.

This isn’t speculation it’s a fact. The only way it will not happen is if more methods of acquisition come out, or if all items that are used to create it are treated equally.

Let me again point out that there’s orbs that are not able to be used Flax Blossom comes to mind. Remember that key buzz word of “value” being used and equality of good in the same item tier….yeah sure.

There’s several options for them to remove the “gold grind feeling” from this journey and still have it maintain value. Reminder to all those preaching their economic genius that value isn’t just measured in it’s relation to the markets currency. In this thread alone – adding them to dungeons, adding them to map rewards. Either or both of these would solve a vast majority of the issue with step 4 of the Legendary Journey and keep feeling less like a grind and more like earning it through normal play.

That is all anyone is debating here. Sans the few fringe people who insist all Legendaries should be valued the same. Which is about as laughable as saying your childhood bicycle should be priced the same a a Armstrong’s Harley Davidson, because they are both bikes. Hence why the precursor’s for underwater Legendaries are significantly cheaper than say Bolt.

Enough said.

Not likely.

Engies are conceptually the same as Rit. Sans spirits.

Revs are the other half of the Rit concept of communing.

Raziel.4216:

TexZero.7910:

Raziel.4216:

TexZero.7910:

Please yet again show me where i said this ?

TexZero.7910:

Which serves what purpose again. The “value” they have should never have been made relative to other legendaries since these are entirely bound to account. No two ways around this.

So they should never be on par with other legendaries because they’re account bound?
Logic!

Again, at what point is that even remotely the same as having No Cost. I said they shouldn’t have based the value of new legendaries on the OLD market value of other Legendaries which have multiple ways to obtain them.

Reading comprehension sure is hard.

The only reason Anet did this was too “not devalue” the work others did. In doing so they based their idea of a market value on a flawed system. Instead of starting from the ground up and making the entire process something achievable by even the casual crowd, they’ve actually gone and pushed it into a very niche grind centric crowd.

“So they should never be on par with other legendaries because they’re account bound?” =/= they should have no cost. They shouldn’t be on par with others because they’re only account bound. Nice logic.
New legendaries are available to the casual crowd, it’s a very long-term goal. Who’re you to say they aren’t?

TexZero.7910:

Reading comprehension sure is hard.

Indeed.

Again where in there does it say no cost. Pretty sure i’ve already established they should have a cost, just not one relative to the Gen 1 legendaries where in they utilized different methods of acquisition.

But whatever, you’ll never understand this.
Also if you think a super long term goal will be great for casual players, just wait until the price per amalgamated gemstone spikes again with the next set of legendaries. We’ll see how that long term goal statement holds up.

Raziel.4216:

TexZero.7910:

Please yet again show me where i said this ?

TexZero.7910:

Which serves what purpose again. The “value” they have should never have been made relative to other legendaries since these are entirely bound to account. No two ways around this.

So they should never be on par with other legendaries because they’re account bound?
Logic!

Again, at what point is that even remotely the same as having No Cost. I said they shouldn’t have based the value of new legendaries on the OLD market value of other Legendaries which have multiple ways to obtain them.

Reading comprehension sure is hard.

The only reason Anet did this was too “not devalue” the work others did. In doing so they based their idea of a market value on a flawed system. Instead of starting from the ground up and making the entire process something achievable by even the casual crowd, they’ve actually gone and pushed it into a very niche grind centric crowd.