Guild Wars 2

Odyssey.2613:

No thank you. There are a couple audio and visual clues (not including what you mention). Not that hard to find and finish off a stealthed thief. This coming from a Thief.

So if there are audio and visual clues already…. what does adding dmg splashes change against your favor?

Hey guys…

I just wanted to see what people thought about the stealth mechanic in regards to what I have to say in this thread.
…and before we even get started, no I’m not complaining about stealth entirely…. just something that annoys me about it.

The mechanic itself is nothing to get your under garments in a bunch over, thanks to the revealed mechanic.

Stealth, as it exists in the game currently, is not as much as an offensive tool (though it can sometimes help) as much as it is a defensive tool.

Its essentially almost a “free pass” to any player who finds himself suddenly in over his head. When overwhelmed, a player can stealth, retreat in any direction, and even the most skilled pvp player can’t reliably predict where the enemy has gone.
(the same way you can’t reliably win rock/paper/scissors every single time regardless of how good you are at playing mind games)

This allows players to not only retreat, but play serious mind games as to whether or not they will be re-appearing for another strike or if they are already halfway across the map.

I don’t usually have any problems standing my ground against stealthed opponents, but there is definitely on occasion an issue with them getting away and escaping to tell the tale…. simply because I sometimes lose the “guess which one of 360 different directions I took off in, lol” game.

Why should my kill come down to a guessing game of “rock/paper/scissors” every time?

(downed? still fighting? or retreating?)

Sure sometimes you can definitely tell.

Many times you can’t.

I just don’t think this is fair.

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

Players who defend stealth almost always respond with “you can tell if you are hitting something because your auto-attack chain will continue”…… but what about your other skills?

Your attacks that deal the most damage (not your auto attack chain) need to have some way of telling you when you are striking a stealthed opponent as well.

Do you not think players should be able to tell if those attacks hit?

Brace yourself for a real life comparison to a fantasy mechanic:

If I’m completely blind, and I can see absolutely nothing…. I can still feel it if I swing a baseball bat and hit a pinata. Why can’t I tell if I strike a stealthed opponent?

Anyway….. thanks for reading….

It’s easy to throw the team on your back and carry as a warrior…… you deal a decent amount of sustainable damage while wearing heavy armor.

You get additional evades/blocks with your weapon skills, and it is entirely possible to solo most areas of the game with a build that also works well in a party…..

so if your team wipes….. you can banner them….. or at least survive while you take off the last 10% (or 20% or 90% if you are trying to prove a point) of a boss’s hp.

I have two full zerker warriors….. one for carrying pug teams on my back, and the other runs a similar setup but is used for speedclears.

All heavy class teams usually do the best when it comes to survivability….. but if you don’t need the additional armor that warriors provide, you can replace it with a squishier class.

Its basically the “sure thing” in pug pve.

….and it is also still considered meta to have one warrior in your party running dual banners… but running more than one warrior in a speedclear would be a waste.

As with all classes you have a hard time playing against…. you should try the class/build before going off on some rant about how its op, because you just end up looking like a total noob. …and you figure out what the build’s weaknesses are immediately.

Here’s a copy-pasted response that everyone complaining about turret engineers should read:

If an engineer sacrifices all of his utility skills and traits to make his turrets stronger, he will not be doing very much damage with his actual weapon, and will be doing practically 0 damage without his turrets.

People don’t know how to fight against a turret engineer, and end up losing due to ignorance.

You have to take out the turrets (at least some of them) before diving headfirst onto a point where an engineer has his turrets.

A well placed Elementalist AoE, Ranger Barrage, Necromancer Life Transfer, etc. can easily destroy (if not severely damage) ALL of a turret engineer’s turrets.

If you want to know which turret to target first… its the rocket turret.

Turret engineer is a build that melts noobs, and doesn’t scare experienced players.
Without the turrets, the engineer is a sitting duck, and taking out the turrets should be your first priority.

Evans.6347:

MrTJpwnz.4710:

Evans.6347:

No one is pointing out that the three “Mursaat” in the trailer have different colours?
There’s blue, red and yellow.

Also they only have two energy tendrils coming out of their backs instead of the typical 14 black feathers. The one at the end also looks nothing like a Mursaat in body and attacking stance.

I’m not at all convinced these are Mursaat, in fact they appear to be much more like Djinn.

In that vid it is clearly visible that is has feet, so that it’s a snake is rubbish

I don’t see any feet, not at 1:00 or at 2:48.
Also, Flame and Diamond Djinn don’t have 4 arms.

But I digress, to me they are as alien to Mursaat as they are to Djinn.

I would totally entertain the Djinn Theory more but lets look at some of the details:

What we see in the video:
Floating beings, with glowing energized skin of three different colors, armor, two colorful wings, live in a in the jungle city made of gold.

GW1 Mursaat:
Floating beings, regular pale skin, armor, black wings, live in a city in a dense forest somewhere west of kryta.

GW1 Djinn:
Floating beings, glowing energized skin that came in different varieties, no armor, two colorful wings, live in a city covered with gold and jewels in Elona.

So what we are left with after comparing the two is difference between Mursaat Skin/wings and the Djinn wearing armor.

While it is possible that it could be the mursaat with their wings redesigned, and with a more energized appearance…… it is equally as possible that it is a djinn wearing armor.

The Big thing that leads me to believe it is a Mursaat is how much they just look like mursaat. I would feel differently if they looked like djinn.

Plus…… the “glowing skin” the Mursaat has appears to just be armor….. look at the head area…. and notice how it is still a pale grey….. I believe it is a Mursaat 100%

draxynnic.3719:

The charr leaders were in the mission.

Phase 1: Defend the village.

Phase 2: Sneak past the charr warcamps to the camp the leaders were meeting in.

Phase 3: Assassinate the leaders.

Phase 4: Call upon the Mursaat and survive the horde of enraged charr looking to get revenge.

Final cutscene: The Mursaat murder half of the squad and take Saul, leaving only Dorian, Hablion, and Thommis.

EDIT @Slowpokeking: Sure, they announced there would be a price beforehand. However, this is not the sort of price that people ask to be paid unless they are evil themselves, and Saul realised that at the end. Just because something is part of a deal does not mean that the deal was not an evil one to begin with.

I suspect Saul also had a different idea as to who was ‘truly worthy’. As stated previously, the ones that the mursaat chose to kill were probably the most virtuous of the group. By killing the ones that they did, the mursaat demonstrated that it was the things that Saul – and good people in general – valued that the mursaat viewed as signifying unworthiness.

Imagine if you’d been in Saul’s situation, and your followers include Stalin, Mother Theresa, Fred Hollows, Sir Galahad, Joan of Arc, Osama bin Laden, and Hermann Goring. You accept the deal, recognising that the fact that it is mentioned means that some of the people you’re with will probably be deemed unworthy, and the knowledge that some of your companions are a little on the unsavory side. Then, at the end… it’s Theresa, Hollows, Galahad, and Joan that get the chop, and Stalin, bin Laden, and Goring that get the apparent stamp of approval.

Well I finally gave up on trying to figure out why you are so adamant about your claims and I watched this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upaZrlbYJkw

…and you are right.

The mursaat do come and take Saul at the end of the Bonus Mission Pack mission.
…and it happens in the kryta/maguuma area… not in the northlands.

…even though it goes directly against what is written elsewhere….

Even if the written lore which I have been citing is the “cover up” it just creates giant plotholes, because it states things like offensive deep in charr territory, traveling back home over the shiverpeaks, etc.

Also in the BMP they take Saul and kill the White Mantle for no apparently obvious reason, except the explanation that it is the “price” for their help… which really doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Why wouldn’t it just say he died while defending his people?
Why would it go into detail about the region traveled (shiverpeaks, etc.)?
Why would the Mursaat just up and kill the White Mantle if they had not angered them in any way? It doesn’t make sense to help people then turn around and destroy them….

Idk this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth….. not just because you are right and I am wrong about the BMP…. but also because the BMP’s story doesn’t seem to embellish the lore and patch up plot holes (like it was intended to do)…. and I believe it only succeeded in creating more plotholes.

Either way you are right about the BMP and now I don’t even know what story to believe anymore.

draxynnic.3719:

It’s a common trope to have a prophecy that realistically could not have come to pass if not for the actions people took because the prophecy existed. Usually, through people trying to prevent the prophecy and ironically bringing about the conditions that allow it to come to pass.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

It is clear that your knowledge of the lore only extends to what is delivered through game content, and not what is written in texts enriching the lore.

Pfffthahahahah!!! Newbie.

The text you are quoting describes events that occurred later.

…and the entire mission which you are going back to as a reference to your misinformation, as i said earlier is a simple gloss-over of factual lore.

Nope. The mission is what actually happened. The description in the Prophecies Manuscripts is what the surviving Mantle leaders – Dorian, Thommis and Hablion – claimed happened in order to hide that it was actually the Mursaat who made Saul disappear and killed most of their unit. The truth is that Saul was not killed in the charr retreat – Saul disappeared after the action that caused the retreat, and the story in the Prophecies Manuscript was likely cooked up between Dorian, Thommis and Hablion after they had verified that the remaining charr were indeed in retreat.

lol nope.
If what you say is true….
Then who assassinated the charr leaders?

In Guild Wars 1, players who made characters in the expansions received a message when completing a mission that they were never supposed to be able to experience in a different campaign.

Like going to Shing Jea Island to complete missions on a character from Nightfall.

Something like
“You are about to experience events which occurred prior to your arrival in Cantha”

etc.

draxynnic.3719:

On the soul batteries…

We’re actually not sure how important they were to keeping the door closed. Ingame, the door opens pretty much right after we destroy the last battery – but Khilbron is lurking nearby with the Scepter of Orr, so it’s possible that he could have readied a ritual to open the door as soon as the batteries were destroyed.

We know that the batteries at least prevent the door from being opened, and that recharging the batteries after the door has opened can close it again. However, we do not know if the door would naturally open on its own without the batteries or whether the batteries simply made it harder for someone to open it (to draw an analogy, were they the latch, or simply a lock?). Nor do we know if souls were the only means by which the battery could be charged, or whether that was simply the mursaat making practical use of people they were going to kill anyway.

These are important unknowns, which if the leading theory as to the identity of the glowing floaters is correct, we will hopefully have a chance to answer.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

draxynnic.3719:

It is. That’s the battle where the White Mantle later claimed that Saul was killed by the Charr.

And what it has to do with my claim is that the Mursaat didn’t punish Saul for going on the offensive against their wishes, as you claimed. They took Saul because they noticed that Saul had realised they weren’t as virtuous as he had thought they were.

He was definitely on an offensive against the Charr…. deep in their territory attempting to assassinate some of the leaders… not defending people, lol.

The story states that the coverup event described how “Saul was killed by Charr during the Mantle’s retreat back through the Shiverpeak Mountains” while returning to Kryta.

Why would they be retreating through the shiverpeak mountains if they were still in Kryta?

Either way the “Rise of the White Mantle” event took place much earlier, and the Charr had already backed off at that point, otherwise it would not make any sense to tell Krytans the tale of how he was slain in the Shiverpeaks, when they could have simply stated that hew was slain while defending his people.

Have you even played the mission?

The first step is defending a village. An established Krytan village, which is actually not far off the northern edge of the GW1 explorable Krytan region (the remains of the site can be found in southwestern Harathi Hinterlands). The charr leaders are accessible because they’ve camped within a distance of, at most, a few hours of Kryta’s northern border.

At the end, Saul is “disappeared” by the Mantle, never to be seen again, while the charr, their leadership broken, retreat back across the Shiverpeaks. The mission is the reality of the event that the coverup story you refer to was covering up.

“The Unseen Ones brought Saul a great victory.”
“But their aid came at a price.”
“The Unseen Ones killed all but their most devoted worshippers.”
“And Saul learned to his horror that these new gods were neither good nor kind.”
“The Unseen Ones took Saul with them to ensure his silence.”
“He was never seen alive again. But survivors spread the legend…”
“And Saul D’Alessio would always be remembered as a Champion of Kryta.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_White_Mantle

Emphasis mine. This WAS Saul’s last battle. And it was, at most, less than a night’s sneak from a village that had been attacked earlier that same night, a village that was not more than the length of a zone north of Lion’s Arch.

It is clear that your knowledge of the lore only extends to what is delivered through game content, and not what is written in texts enriching the lore.

The text you are quoting describes events that occurred later.

…and the entire mission which you are going back to as a reference to your misinformation, as i said earlier is a simple gloss-over of factual lore.

The abridged version if you will.

Mapisto.2154:

I think you guys miss my point. I was a zerk untill now and found it too easy and boring.
But other playstyles are not as good as zerks, and i think condies should be more effective in pve.
There is a reason why most of LFG descriptions ask for “lvl 80 war ele zerk only”.
zerk groups can beat anything in seconds. there is no reason whatsoever to try another build. there is no role for a condi or a healer in those groups.
So i think the non zerk builds should be more “needed” in pve.

Anet got rid of the trinity with Guild Wars 2.

When you have the option to bring things to the table that provide more support/healing or more damage….. you go with more damage.

Not because healing or support is boring…. instead because its boring to be anywhere in this game longer than you have to be there…. and you should always strive to be the fastest and most efficient.

I can’t remember the last time I did a dungeon or a fractal for “the immersive experience” and I just wanted to get my loot as fast as possible. There is nothing fun about doing a dungeon for the 551st time. Just go through it as fast as possible…. get your reward… and get out.

Players who don’t like running full zerker gear are still in their “lets stop and smell the flowers” phase with this game.

Play it every day for two years and you will be wearing full zerker gear and bored to death of everything and just want your kitten ed loot.

$100,000,000,000.00

World bosses, for example, cannot take critical hit damage, and in that situation, PVT gear > Zerk gear.

Anet has also started introducing enemies which are more susceptible to condition damage and have defense against physical attacks. (Such as Husks.)

Anet is aware of this situation and is addressing it as they see fit.

Also…. its not that playing zerker is rewarded differently….

Killing things faster just earns rewards faster.

Stacking DPS over survivability creates higher risk of getting vaporized if you miss an evade or reflect….

We need more foes that punish squishy players, and less foes that can be facerolled.

Foes that attack more often, but do less damage would be perfect.

But in the meantime…. why would anyone want to play anything slower if you can get by with evades reflects blinds?

x Charlie.4820:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

There is no true “GvG” …. there is going to be a new pvp game type called stronghold.

Sure guilds can compete in Stronghold matches…… but it is no more of a GvG than Getting your guildmates to queue up for spvp right now.

Pretty sure for people who have played through the first guild wars, Stronghold IS GvG.

A bunch of people who joined in guild wars 2 and want to stack charge each other just used the term and seem to think it’s “True” GvG.

I Agree Stronghold is not the way Gw2 players think of GvG.
But Stronghold isn’t Gw1 GvG either.

Stronghold is simply a new pvp gametype.

Anet said “guilds can compete”

Keyword can.

It is not limited to Guilds.
It does not take place in Guild Halls.
It is just a new pvp game mode that anyone (including guilds) can participate in.

While stronghold pvp may have some nostalgic features reminiscent of Gw1 gvg….. it is just another pvp game mode, and not actually GvG.

Anet is not giving us GvG, they are giving us Stronghold.

They named this new pvp game mode Stronghold because they do not want to call it GvG.

They do not want to call it GvG because the way Stronghold “could” be GvG is literally no different than the way current spvp “could” be GvG.

All players…. guilds included… can compete in stronghold pvp.

They are not giving us any GvG elements that haven’t already been in the game…. and Stronghold is just stronghold…. a new type of pvp.

People are reading things between the lines that simply aren’t there… and Anet is doing it on purpose.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Slowpokeking.8720:

DarcShriek.5829:

If I remember correctly, the door was opened, the titans came, and the world didn’t end. It’s been 250 years, since any chosen were sacrificed and the world is still here. The sacrifices served no purpose.

Also, if the cause was so honorable, why didn’t they just ask for volunteers. Arlington National cemetery is filled with people that sacrificed themselves voluntarily. These people were given no choice, they were lied to and their lives were needlessly stolen from them. The mursaat are beyond evil and can’t be trusted.

Because we had it closed fast enough, even though

“The Foundry of Failed Creation is not merely a prison camp. It also acts as a staging area for an attack on the mortal plane. The Fury and his minions await the opening of the Door of Komalie, a gateway that leads from here into Tyria. Some years ago a powerful lich…another powerful minion of Abaddon…opened a gateway. It only remained open a brief time, but countless souls were sent through to become titans. Fortunately, for reasons unknown to me, the Door of Komalie was closed almost immediately.”

Why would people listen to some “aliens” to have them directly killed?

Also remember, Glint was behind the prophecy, without it the Mursaat and the Lich wouldn’t have done such thing.

but since 250 no one killed people to power up souls batteries and that compared with fact that after khilbron there is nothing mentioning about anyone even trying to open that doors I think we can quite safely asssume that the doors of komalie di not required those souls batteries to keep being shut – mursaat could have keep their stronghold ontop of those doors to prevent any servant of abaddon to enter the are to oen the door but instead they still tried to trick with soul batteries… which was their doom.

Also I think it was quite literaly stated later in nightfall that lich was servant of abaddon… well abaddon wanted those doors opened no matter if some dragon servant made any prophecy about it or not.

From the Hell’s Precipice Mission:
Undead Rurik: “Kill the Lich while he stands atop the Bloodstone inside the caldera.”
Undead Rurik: “If you do this, his spirit will recharge the soul batteries, and the Door will be closed again.”

After completing the mission….
Glint: “The Flameseeker Prophecies are now complete.”
Glint: “The Door of Komalie is closed, and the Titans are once again safely locked away behind it.”

I’m assuming the Lich Lord’s death upon the bloodstone was enough to seal it for quite some time….. long enough for Abbadon to cancel his plans with the Door of Komalie and flameseeker phophecies and change his focus to pushing his minions out into Elona.

The players then Travel to Elona and defeat Abbadon after entering the Realm of Torment.

Defeating Abbadon would dissolve any threat the Titans posed…. and by the same token, defeating the Titans (which the Charr revered as Gods) would dissolve Charr morale.

Abbadon → Titans → Charr vs White Mantle <-Mursaat <- ????

Think about that a bit…. freeing the Charr from their false gods after defeating Abbadon ended up starting the revolution that changed the Charr from enemies to Allies.

The Mursaat are on the good side of this battle…

draxynnic.3719:

It is. That’s the battle where the White Mantle later claimed that Saul was killed by the Charr.

And what it has to do with my claim is that the Mursaat didn’t punish Saul for going on the offensive against their wishes, as you claimed. They took Saul because they noticed that Saul had realised they weren’t as virtuous as he had thought they were.

He was definitely on an offensive against the Charr…. deep in their territory attempting to assassinate some of the leaders… not defending people, lol.

The story states that the coverup event described how “Saul was killed by Charr during the Mantle’s retreat back through the Shiverpeak Mountains” while returning to Kryta.

Why would they be retreating through the shiverpeak mountains if they were still in Kryta?

Either way the “Rise of the White Mantle” event took place much earlier, and the Charr had already backed off at that point, otherwise it would not make any sense to tell Krytans the tale of how he was slain in the Shiverpeaks, when they could have simply stated that hew was slain while defending his people.

draxynnic.3719:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

….Well… I’m pretty sure the bonus mission pack glosses over quite a few things.

Think about what you are saying and what happens in the bonus mission.

You are defending your people….. then only in text at the very end do you read:

“The Unseen Ones killed all but their most devoted worshippers.”

Saul is the reason the White Mantle even exist, and he if anyone would be their most devoted follower.

Why would they kill him for defending his people?

First, we don’t know that the killed him. They just ‘disappeared’ him.

More importantly… the mission tells us. After the mursaat killed most of his squad, Saul realised that the mursaat were actually monsters. The mursaat sensed this realisation that meant that Saul would no longer serve their purposes, but they couldn’t claim that he wasn’t worthy after having previously made him their chosen, so they teleported him away instead.

Okay…. so to our knowledge they didn’t kill him….. what does that have to do with your claims?

The Rise of the White Mantle Bonus Pack Mission is still not the tale of Saul’s final battle with the Charr.

MontySpark.4793:

for those of you who don’t want the ears don’t buy them then
and stop complaining I would much rather have a supportive community rather then people who kitten and moan about the stupidest of things

…and I would much rather have development resources spent on things that myself and others would actually like to purchase.

You can’t tell anyone their opinions are not valid… and then state your opinion and expect anyone to listen to you.

…and it certainly is not any reason to bump a dead thread to do so.

Loki.8793:

Zaishen.4985:

Siva Mira.3546:

Are you talking about moving forward and stop, but your character doesn’t stand straight and stop, instead he does a little lean forward animation?

exactly, im talking about that, my sugestion is to remove that animation or reduce it, would make the movment and mobility more smooth

I’m failing to see how a stylistic animation that can be interrupted at any time inhibits mobility in any way.

yeah….. if that is what the op is indeed complaining about then….. idk

Windsagio.1340:

at risk of being really meta, why is this position so important to you leech?

It’s pretty clear that the Mursaat were supposed to be some of the main villains in Prophecies.

I just really like the mursaat…. and their role in the original Guild Wars…. and I read a lot about their lore…. and I am not even a lore nut like some people are…

I just really think the Mursaat are cool….. they are shrouded in mystery.
They have enemies like the Seers which are equally bizarre and mysterious…
They are powerful…. one of the toughest foes in Guild Wars… and I would love to see more players educated in their (fictional and in-game) history.

Many people think the Mursaat are “bad guys” just because they are against the player in GW1…… but in all reality YOU are helping the bad guys…. and that’s why they want you dead.

It would only make sense that a Neutral race that is threatened with extermination would make a great ally in the fight against mordremoth.

Like the old saying….

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Long story short….. Gw2 relies heavily on processing powere moreso than anything else and your processor is bottlenecking your performance.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

>Mursaat
>Allies

I don’t want to be allies with the very race that backstabbed everyone else the last time the dragons awoke.

What are you even talking about?

The last time the dragons awoke as in the time before this current dragon apocalypse, as in before the humans came here.

The Seers proposed the idea of sealing away all magic into blood stones in an attempt to starve the dragons. The Mursaat had found an alternate method via escaping into the mists leaving dwarvs, jotun, char, seers, you name it to fend for themselves.

The Mursaat left everyone to die, returned and almost obliterated the Seers.

No offense but this is almost as absurd as Abaddon being some kind of anti hero batman all along.

It never says the Mursaat abandoned anyone….. they simply used their own powers to escape.

draxynnic.3719:

The backstabbing is that the other elder races were relying on the mursaat to hold their part of the alliance, and the mursaat found a way to hide and took it instead of supporting their allies.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Saul and the White Mantle used their new found faith and knowledge to drive back the Charr, and by this point he White Mantle became so powerful that it turned into a government (more so than a mere religious following…. but still heavily influenced by worship of the Mursaat). Peace to Kryta was restored thanks to the White Mantle and their newly found gods.

Saul and the Mantle, unsatisfied with their newly achieved peace, and against the will of the Mursaat, made an attempt to assassinate the Charr leaders….. and although they were successful, the Charr army closed in upon them shortly afterward, seemingly sealing their fate.

This is completely wrong. I’ve just reviewed the Rise of the White Mantle mission, and:

1) Kryta was definitely NOT at peace at the time. The mission starts with defending a village that was under attack by the charr.

2) There is no indication that the mursaat disapproved of the plan to assassinate the charr leaders. In fact, if anything, it seems that this is the only time that the mursaat actually played a direct part in fighting against the charr – forming the White Mantle, rallying the people of Kryta, and keeping the charr at bay up to that point was all Saul’s doing with no direct assistance from the mursaat.

Regarding the rest:

As you may have noticed, the question of whether killing others to help yourself is a neutral or evil act is a highly controversial moral question. Personally, I consider it to be evil. At the risk of Godwinning the thread, looking to wipe out every member of the population with a certain characteristic because you believe they might pose a threat to you was an action that historically led to the leaders that did so being declared as the worst of villains in human history.

Arguably the mursaat had better reason to believe the Chosen were a threat, but… as people noted above, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. If the mursaat had done nothing, they would not have triggered the conditions under which the Prophecies had occurred. They did also make for complex villains – they did, for instance, have enough scruple not to simply let the charr destroy Kryta (although they may have realised that the charr army that went to Kryta did not actually have the strength to defeat Kryta once Kryta got organised – Saul accelerated the organisation but if he hadn’t done it likely someone else would have stepped up, and while that delay would have allowed the charr to push further, at the time most of the important sites in Kryta were further south… and there’s no evidence that the Krytan charr army had Cauldrons. Its purpose seemed mainly as a diversion to prevent Kryta from sending aid to Ascalon or Orr).

However, somebody with a less ruthless attitude to the lives of others would have sought another way. Consider, if the promise to train the Chosen in magic had not been a lie, the mursaat could have turned those Chosen that they were able to find into allies, and may have avoided the scenario where a group of Chosen slipped under their radar, discovered the sacrifices, and went on the warpath.

You certainly can’t say the White Mantle were bad while the mursaat were good. The Mantle was following, directly or indirectly, the mandate of the mursaat – while “following orders” is not regarded as an excuse, culpability is also held by those who gave the orders.

….Well… I’m pretty sure the bonus mission pack glosses over quite a few things.

Think about what you are saying and what happens in the bonus mission.

You are defending your people….. then only in text at the very end do you read:

“The Unseen Ones killed all but their most devoted worshippers.”

Saul is the reason the White Mantle even exist, and he if anyone would be their most devoted follower.

Why would they kill him for defending his people?

They kill him because he goes against their will and launches and offensive.

The actual lore about saul states:

In the last offensive of the war against the Charr, Saul led his troops deep into Charr territory. His network of spies, though normally quite effective, failed him on this day. The Charr were waiting in ambush, and the beastly creatures slaughtered Saul’s unit to the man.

He is not defending an allied city….. he is deep in charr territory.
Defensive =/= Offensive
The “Rise of the White Mantle” =/= the fall of Saul D’Alessio

They give the end to Saul’s story in text (which happens a while later) after they let you play the beginning.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

>Mursaat
>Allies

I don’t want to be allies with the very race that backstabbed everyone else the last time the dragons awoke.

What are you even talking about?

draxynnic.3719:

Well, TheBlackLeech missed the part where the sacrifices were being performed on the order of the mursaat, after the mursaat killed or kidnapped all of the WM leadership that wasn’t fanatical enough to carry out such orders without question.

I didn’t “miss that part” because that “part” is not really part of what I was describing.

The White mantle was founded by Saul D’Alessio . He had been given great knowledge by the Mursaat, and wanted to spread the word to the people of kryta.

The White Mantle was originally formed as a faith, which worshipped the Unseen Ones (Nobody but Saul at this point ever got to see the Mursaat, and it was entirely based on faith)

Saul and the White Mantle used their new found faith and knowledge to drive back the Charr, and by this point he White Mantle became so powerful that it turned into a government (more so than a mere religious following…. but still heavily influenced by worship of the Mursaat). Peace to Kryta was restored thanks to the White Mantle and their newly found gods.

Saul and the Mantle, unsatisfied with their newly achieved peace, and against the will of the Mursaat, made an attempt to assassinate the Charr leaders….. and although they were successful, the Charr army closed in upon them shortly afterward, seemingly sealing their fate.

At that moment, a small handful of Mursaat revealed themselves to the Charr army and obliterated them.

Disgusted by the actions of Saul and the Mantle, The Mursaat then turned on the White Mantle and destroyed them, too. All but a small handful of worshippers, those deemed to be the most devoted, were destroyed.

Years passed and the remaining White Mantle grew in numbers and in power. In this time, The Mursaat, having knowledge of the flameseeker prophecies and how it foretold the destruction, of not only their race, but many of the races in Tyria…. all at the hand of the titans… formed a tighter and more focused relationship with the Mantle.

As long as the White Mantle protected the Mursaat, the Mursaat protected the White Mantle.

It is known that The Door of Komalie (the door to the realm where the titans resided) was held closed, by sacrificing the Chosen on the bloodstone in the Maguuma Jungle. If there were no sacrifices made, it would mean the release of the titans, and the destruction of the Mursaat, man, and much of Tyria as it was known in that day.

It was a necessary sacrifice….. few lives to save many.

If anything, as I stated before the Mursaat are neutral. They, like all races, value self preservation, and reward loyalty. They have had symbiotic relationships with humans in the past…. and the only reason why they were enemies in Guild Wars, was because we, as the protagonists, were against their cause. They are a powerful ally, but can also prove to be a powerful adversary if you are not on their side or anger them.

Since they reside deep within the jungle…. it is only fair to assume they would want Mordremoth’s minions eradicated, and I would be more than willing to bet that they would happily employ the help of humans once again.

There is no true “GvG” …. there is going to be a new pvp game type called stronghold.

Sure guilds can compete in Stronghold matches…… but it is no more of a GvG than Getting your guildmates to queue up for spvp right now.

(Save for the nostalgic playstyle of the game mode and win/loss conditions)

In Guild Wars… there are several regions that were part of the “Tarnished Coast”
Sparkfly Swamp
Rata Sum
Magus Stones
etc.

In Guild Wars 2…. many of these regions are being labeled as part of the “Maguuma Jungle”
Sparkfly Fen
Mount Maelstrom
The Grove
etc.

I can sort of understand if Anet wants to lump the west-most Tarnished coast areas into the Maguuma Jungle…… but the eastmost areas are not even remotely related to the jungle.

Also…. the Westmost areas are surrounding the text “Tarnished Coast”…. but are considered by the game mechanics to be maguuma jungle.

Look at the text ‘Ascalon’ and you will see it surrounded by areas that are part of ascalon.

Can we have the zones redefined please?

As it sits right now, there is text on the map clearly defining Ascalon, Kryta, Orr, and the Shiverpeaks….

Everything else that has a label doesn’t matter.

(Tarnished Coast, Steamspur Mountains, etc.)

Crise.9401:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

This new pvp gametype “Stronghold” is basically a Gw1 GvG map…… but it is not limited to Guild v Guild….. which is why it is not a true GvG.

Are you saying that because the teams don’t necessarily have to be guild teams it is not true GvG? (It is hard to say if the restriction is in there or not just from the stream tbh). Or are you saying it is not true GvG because of the new mechanics?

If these are your reasons, then all you are really saying is that any sort of iteration or future development of the GvG formula is bad, basically you are against all progress at this point and just want a carbon copy of GW1 GvG. You have every right to want such a thing, but then you shouldn’t be surprised if a company that thrives on iteration and innovation as their motto does not deliver the GvG you are looking for.

Either way this is the worst stance I have seen thus far, there is no such thing as a perfect game or a game that could not be better. Not to mention you are judging without even playing stronghold.

Thanks for not even reading the rest of my post.

But I’ll re-iterate.

The way the new pvp mode is advertised has led many to believe they are “adding gvg” which is not the case.

In the game….. (right now…. at this very moment) Guilds can compete in "GvG’ in a similar manner to the way that they will compete in the new stronghold pvp mode.

If you do a pvp match with a team of 5 players in one guild versus a team of 5 players in another guild….. that is not GvG…. that is just regular spvp.

If you do a stronghold match with a team of 5 (or more) players in one guild versus a team of 5 (or more) players in another guild….. that is not GvG…. that is stronghold.

Just because guilds can form teams for the new pvp mode….. does not make it GvG.

Gilgalas.7860:

I know a lot of things point toward Mursaats, however there is a detail that do not fit in, unless it is just a question of design. Original muursats had black “wings”, while the creatures from the trailer sport glowing “wings” made of light.

Can someone explain the difference (aside of a design change) ?

Probably the same reason why trolls look different from GW1 to Gw2

Probably the same reason why the krait look different from GW1 to Gw2

Probably the same reason why irukanji look different from GW1 to Gw2

Probably the same reason why skelk look different from GW1 to Gw2

Probably the same reason why drakes look different from GW1 to GW2

etc.

Phosphia.7813:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

GvG in Gw1 had you bust through gates to kill a Guild Lord defended by weak NPCs. to win

GW2’s Stronghold has you bust through gates to kill a Guild Lord to win.

Stronghold = GW1 GvG with a few added elements.

Stronghold is the GvG that I want. Not some stupid 20v20 death balling.

Are all PvPers this ignorant?

We want you to have Stronghold too. The WvW community has a GvG scene (which you currently do not) and they would like for anet to make it more convenient for them to arrange those GvGs.

To be fair the “gvg” that happens in WvW is a joke.

Gw1 veterans have been waiting for a true GvG…. (which was not some sad 20v20 deathmatch.)

This new pvp gametype “Stronghold” is basically a Gw1 GvG map…… but it is not limited to Guild v Guild….. which is why it is not a true GvG.

Many argue that the same type of GvG that existed in GW1 can’t exist in GW2, and that is why this stronghold map has been put into existence.
…but at best it is a pseudo-gvg… and I would love to see actual GvG implemented.

As it sits right now…. Stronghold is just a new pvp mode where you can compete with other guilds…… but you can bring your guild into PvP right now and do a match on the map Legacy of the Foefire…. against another team made up of an enemy Guild.

It is basically just another pvp map with different win/loss mechanics.

Guilds have always been able to fight against eachother in PvP…. and unless this new game mode has a dramatic player size increase….. its just going to be ‘another pvp map.’

TL;DR
Stronghold isn’t GvG.
Neither is it the way GW1 veterans want GvG, nor is it the way the Gw2 “WvW-based GvG” players GvG. It is just another pvp mode.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Wait, Prince Rurik? So he can lead you on a merry chase again, all the while telling you touching stories of his youth?

At least Rurik ran ahead, and you had to catch up…. as opposed to having to go back for Trahearne over and over again and hold his hand and make sure he is following.

Rurik was a great hero, and I’m sure he would prove to be a valuable ally in any situation.

The mursaat were always neutral….. but the heroes in guild wars one feared them because they appeared to be evil.

What you find out in Guild Wars Prophecies….. in this order…. is

There is this undead Lich guy behind the undead forces who is definitely a bad guy…

You meetThe White Mantle and they hate the undead just as much as you do…. cool new allies!
Lets do errands for these people to show our thanks.

The White mantle is actually centered around some sort of cult where people are being sacrificed on something called a bloodstone deep within the jungle…. the people who tell you this are called The Shining Blade….
These Shining Blade people saved us from being sacrificed….
Lets help these guys out.

So….. The White Mantle are not actually good guys…. and they worship the Mursaat…. so the Mursaat must be bad guys too….. right?
Lets steer clear of those guys.

Vizier Khilbron, a powerful necromancer, will save us from the White Mantle, using his powerful necromancer magic to summon more undead that the White Mantle hates so much. New ally get!

(you do some mucking around in the desert and end up in the southern shiverpeaks… and continue to attempt to fulfill the flameseeker prophecies with Glint’s instructions)

You need to go rescue your shining blade friends, who were captured by an alliance of White Mantle (we think they are bad guys), Stone Summit(bad guys), and Mursaat(we think they are bad guys). You actually fight a mursaat for the first time and holy kitten they hurt a lot. Definitely bad guys. ….right?

Vizier Khilbron is still helping us kick kitten and try and get our shining blade friends back….. We kick the enemies’ kitten and save the day!

Afterward Khilbron tells us the following:

“This is just as it was written in the Flameseeker Prophecies. An opening will be given to the disciples of the Unseen. The peaks and valleys of the Shiverpeaks will be painted in blood. At this time, the Ascendants will rise, and the way to the Door will be clear. The time of our judgment is near. We must prepare. Today’s was a great victory, but now your true challenge begins. You must go to the Ring of Fire island chain. In the caldera of the largest volcano you will find the power you need. "

Sure thing, Khilbron…. we’ve got your back.

We go to the ring of fire….. Its loaded with Mursaat and White Mantle…

They throw everything they have against us but we are still victorious.

We discover they are protecting another bloodstone (like the ones they have been sacrificing people on in the jungle)

We finish off the Mursaat and the White Mantle….. but

PLOT TWIST

SPOILER ALERT

Vizier Khilbron is actually the Lich….. and he wanted the white mantle (and also the mursaat) destroyed so he could open the ‘Door of Komalie’…. basically a gate to hell.

…and you just helped him succeed.

So the Mursaat were just trying to keep the Door of Komalie shut. Which is a noble cause…. and attempted to stop anyone from fulfilling the flameseeker prophecies, so that kitten would not hit the fan.

The OP hit the nail directly on the head.

Simply because guilds can compete in the new pvp mode does not make it GvG.

considering their UI designer left the company not too long ago …… they might have an opening for someone like you.

charr master race

digiowl.9620:

Rather attack like characters, rapid but individually weak basic attacks, they do fewer but harder hitting attacks.

Not only are you right….. but this can be applied to lots of other topics as well.

General PvE Difficulty and meta builds for example.

There are some players (whom I disagree with) that want to see the zerker meta die…. and in my honest opinion all the mobs in pve attack too slowly to the point where you can evade all the attacks. If enemy attack speed was doubled, but their damage was halved, we would see many more diverse builds out there. Enemy AI would feel more responsive and less clunky.

The problem is that PvE mobs attack way too slowly….. and altering confusion is like putting a bandaid on a broken arm.

There are four legendaries that are manly….. and the rest are all rainbows and glitter.

Ismial.3825:

I’m just… disappointed, really. That’s the only word for it.

Disappointed that the writing team thinks it’s a good idea to drop something like this on a playable race two years in. If this had been open knowledge upfront, I’d be serene with it.

Disappointed that they think it’s a good idea to throw gasoline on the fire so all the players salivating for an excuse to get their pretend-racism on can go into a feeding frenzy, in and out of character.

And more than a little disappointed that I’ve spent so much time and effort doing RP and painting sylvari. The latter in particular feels like a lot of wasted time right now.

The writing obsesses over the main species I play nowadays (making players of all the other ones feel shafted), yet they do it in such a way that just keeps throwing them under the bus and feeding the CAN’T TRUST THEM CABBAGES crowd.

There’s a chance that the writers might be able to pull this off in a way that makes it palatable to me (and I strongly suspect the end will be okay). But the trip to get there is looking so unenjoyable that I really don’t know if I want to stick around for it.

To be fair….. there are no sylvari undead….

They were pretty much immune to the undead dragon’s corruption….

….but vulnerable to another.

I experienced this last night as well.

In my scenario, 4/5 of the subterranian mordrem champs were defeated before the timer ended.

The 5th, champion was defeated almost instantly after the event failed
(Copper just barely missed the cutoff but players were able to kill it before it despawned)

Then, same as described in the OP, the siege devourer failed every single time to make it beyond the final barrier, and it put the vinewrath event into an endless loop until too many siege carriers were lost to continue.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Vayne.8563:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Vayne.8563:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If they did not announce an expansion….. one is not coming.

Players have waited for some of the things that did get announced, have waited two years (and counting) for them, and you guys are acting like anet is going to surprise everyone with an expansion without saying anything about it?

I don’t understand this logic at all.

Every time something stopped working in my house, my mother always said the same thing. I don’t understand, it was working yesterday.

If they have an expansion coming, at some point they will announce the expansion. That means prior to their announcing it, it was still coming but unannounced.

A lot of people say it takes a couple of years to make an expansion. Now that it’s getting closer, maybe they’re ready to announce it.

I should have said….. if an expansion is not already announced…. then one isn’t coming (any time in the next 5 years).

We are still waiting for things promised in 2012….

Sure but there’s stuff that hasn’t been promised that came out. The thing is, prior to this, it was probably unlikely to expect an expansion because Anet was working on the China release and that takes time and energy.

But that doesn’t mean an expansion or expansion type content isn’t being worked on.

Anet will annouce it, probably about six months before they’re ready to deliver. That seems to be a safe bet. It means that they’re not ready to deliver an expansion in the first half of this year…nothing more.

I don’t know why people think 2 years is such a long time between expansions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars#Campaigns

If you want to know why…. just look at the release dates for the original Guild Wars.

Game was released in 2005
First standalone expansion 2006
Second standalone expansion 2006
Final expansion 2007

All of the individual GW1 games were much smaller in scope than GW2 was at launch. Additionally, GW1 never had an official China launch either. While it had Asian players, it didn’t have the extensive recoding that GW2 needed into order to ‘officially’ launch, including the acquisition of a Chinese publisher. There is a heck of a lot more to GW2.

While what you said is not false…. you are beating around the bush here…

Guild Wars + EotN = Gw2 in map size comparison.

What about Factions?

What about Nightfall?

In the same amount of time we saw the size of Guild Wars triple, we have only gotten 3 new maps for Gw2.

We don’t have new dungeons, we don’t have a FoW/UW or Urgoz/Deep.

We don’t have HoH or GvG

We don’t have guild halls.

We have a small fraction of the skills and build diversity available.

In Gw2, after 3 years each profession got one new heal skill…. and toxin spray.

This is just of the top of my head…

The list goes on and on.

You are nuts if you think you can compare 3 expansions in 2 years to what we are currently getting through Living Story.

Vayne.8563:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Vayne.8563:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If they did not announce an expansion….. one is not coming.

Players have waited for some of the things that did get announced, have waited two years (and counting) for them, and you guys are acting like anet is going to surprise everyone with an expansion without saying anything about it?

I don’t understand this logic at all.

Every time something stopped working in my house, my mother always said the same thing. I don’t understand, it was working yesterday.

If they have an expansion coming, at some point they will announce the expansion. That means prior to their announcing it, it was still coming but unannounced.

A lot of people say it takes a couple of years to make an expansion. Now that it’s getting closer, maybe they’re ready to announce it.

I should have said….. if an expansion is not already announced…. then one isn’t coming (any time in the next 5 years).

We are still waiting for things promised in 2012….

Sure but there’s stuff that hasn’t been promised that came out. The thing is, prior to this, it was probably unlikely to expect an expansion because Anet was working on the China release and that takes time and energy.

But that doesn’t mean an expansion or expansion type content isn’t being worked on.

Anet will annouce it, probably about six months before they’re ready to deliver. That seems to be a safe bet. It means that they’re not ready to deliver an expansion in the first half of this year…nothing more.

I don’t know why people think 2 years is such a long time between expansions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars#Campaigns

If you want to know why…. just look at the release dates for the original Guild Wars.

Game was released in 2005
First standalone expansion 2006
Second standalone expansion 2006
Final expansion 2007

Rebound.3409:

And guess what happens when the hype train fails like it did countless times in the past? An even worst image then the previous is made….people start QQing everywhere LITERALLY. People who were previously interested in buying the game will only see QQ….and that in turn decreases the amount of $$ Anet gets.

It’s a pretty easy chain of events.

Rest assured though…. Anet will realize their huge mistake if they don’t deliver.

Gaming sites like IGN have already boarded the hype train.

If Anet doesn’t deliver, no amount of white knighting will be able to save them, and it will be a lot of bad publicity.

Vayne.8563:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If they did not announce an expansion….. one is not coming.

Players have waited for some of the things that did get announced, have waited two years (and counting) for them, and you guys are acting like anet is going to surprise everyone with an expansion without saying anything about it?

I don’t understand this logic at all.

Every time something stopped working in my house, my mother always said the same thing. I don’t understand, it was working yesterday.

If they have an expansion coming, at some point they will announce the expansion. That means prior to their announcing it, it was still coming but unannounced.

A lot of people say it takes a couple of years to make an expansion. Now that it’s getting closer, maybe they’re ready to announce it.

I should have said….. if an expansion is not already announced…. then one isn’t coming (any time in the next 5 years).

We are still waiting for things promised in 2012….

nGumball.1283:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

nGumball.1283:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

lordkrall.7241:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

So how is this any different than

Guild Wars 2: Flame and Frost?

Guild Wars 2: Flame and Frost was not trademarked?

Yeah…. and Season 2 didn’t even have a title.

Its because different teams work on different LS episodes.

So a team from Anet went to Ncsoft offices and forced them to trademark a LS episode for the first time just because they felt like it. Makes sense.

If you pay a graphic designer to make a logo for something…. and you don’t put a trademark on it, then this happens:

So Anet decided suddenly go give season 2 a title and they do it the last day of the season. Additionally they add a logo that can’t be used until three months later.

It all makes sense now. Anet will release a logo and a title for season 2, three months after the season end.

If they are planning to sell the chapters players missed they will do something like:

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns Living Story Pack

• Unlocks all available chapters for Living World Season 2
• Unlocks sPvP reward tracks, which grant players unique rewards.
• In-game items like Ley Line Finisher, and your choice of a Ley Line Weapon skin
  etc.

Trademarking something you intend on selling is a pretty good idea.

nGumball.1283:

Ok so Anet suddenly does the following:
1. They add a title to season 2, something that has never happened before. Seasons don’t have titles.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_and_Frost:_Prelude
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_and_Frost:_The_Gathering_Storm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_and_Frost:_The_Razing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_and_Frost:_Retribution
Most of LS season 1 was called Flame and Frost

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

I am not saying that it can’t be the title for Season 2 as a whole.
But I don’t really see the connection people like Wanze make with their “It is the name for Season 2, cause Heart of Thorns is exactly where we went in Season 2”.
And how exactly did we do that? That would be a terrible name for Season 2. We never got to the heart of anything, we went all over the place, did all sorts of unimportant things, survived many terrible cliffhangers etc etc.

Season Two still doesn’t even have an official name…. and it would only make sense to give it one. Heart of Thorns is a pretty fitting name for S2 imo.

nGumball.1283:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

lordkrall.7241:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

So how is this any different than

Guild Wars 2: Flame and Frost?

Guild Wars 2: Flame and Frost was not trademarked?

Yeah…. and Season 2 didn’t even have a title.

Its because different teams work on different LS episodes.

So a team from Anet went to Ncsoft offices and forced them to trademark a LS episode for the first time just because they felt like it. Makes sense.

If you pay a graphic designer to make a logo for something…. and you don’t put a trademark on it, then this happens:

lordkrall.7241:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

So how is this any different than

Guild Wars 2: Flame and Frost?

Guild Wars 2: Flame and Frost was not trademarked?

Yeah…. and Season 2 didn’t even have a title.

Its because different teams work on different LS episodes.

So how is this any different than

Guild Wars 2: Flame and Frost?

If they did not announce an expansion….. one is not coming.

Players have waited for some of the things that did get announced, have waited two years (and counting) for them, and you guys are acting like anet is going to surprise everyone with an expansion without saying anything about it?

Well…. there is this thread…. in which players were originally attributing the bug to unlocking skins while in spectator mode…. but if you were not in spectator mode….. then that sort of debunks this….

Unless it is possible you had previously unlocked your dragon’s deep longbow for your Arah collection in spectator mode…. did not get credit for the unlock, thought you still needed it, got another one, and just now noticed.

(TLDR It is possible that it got bugged a while back and you just now noticed)

How sure are you that this is your first time attempting to unlock the bow skin…. and can you remember specifically what you were doing when you tried to unlock it this time?

The problem is that these players don’t fall into any of the existing report categories.

Reporting players for “Leeching” existed in the original Guild Wars.

Leeching still exists in GW2, but there is no way to report it.

They are not botting, because they are not using any third party software or macros…. they are literally afk farming and using pets/traits to get credit for events.

Anet just needs to up the afk boot timer in silverwastes.

I will get kicked from Divinity’s Reach for afking for one minute…. but I’ve seen AFK SW farmers there for hours and hours.