Guild Wars 2

Shayne Hawke.9160:

I’ve certainly been on top in enough 4*0 – 500 struggles to be able to point myself out as the lynchpin to my team’s success (see attached). This video just wasn’t one of those cases. Also, what one video doesn’t show is how over a set of games, other players can do well or do poorly based on whether they’re on my team or not. That’s because part of my job is not only playing well but enabling my teammates to play well. That’s where things come into play like calling targets to focus the team on one thing or moving and fighting alongside others. To frame the final scoreboard in another way, no teammate of mine scored any more than 4 kills without some form of direct help from me.

When you look at your team’s score and your lowest player’s score beats the enemy team’s top player’s score. It was a team effort.

If you pvp enough you will recognize this.

If the enemy team is full of leavers, you can’t measure skill for any of the players based on personal scoring.

There are also no assists in this game, and if you watch the right side of the screen in the vid, almost half of your “kills” are actually assists. …and only three (maybe four) of the “kills” you are awarded were against players who were A ) not fighting against you AND a teammate. B ) not already with low hp from being in a fight with a teammate earlier.

That means three times in your entire video did you actually beat someone without having one or more teammates participating actively (or having previously weakened your opponent).

…. at 50 seconds for example you join a 3v3 fight making it a 4v3, your team with the upper hand…. and two of your teammates die… you and another live and emerge victorious.

Did you carry? no.

Team fight – you participated. (if anything I’d say you tagged before they died… but you were there just the same)

When the fourth enemy player finally shows up late to the party and you beat him 1v1. Yes…. you are better than him. You get the kill. One of three kills you earn on your own.

If you were taking on 2 or 3 foes at a time alone….. totally carrying.

Getting three(4?) kills, in three different 1v1’s is not carrying.

I’m not saying you are not a good player…. I’m also not saying you are not the mvp on these teams…. What I’m saying is you aren’t carrying by any means… and just because you are good at tagging foes before they die, or finishing off opponents who are already low does not imply you are doing all the work yourself.

you are not carrying

If anything you are a good player, which makes it easier to get one or two more good players on the same team and completely destroy a team of kids who are not good.

Also, we have no idea who any of these other players are, and how skilled/unskilled they are and they might as well have been a team of old grandmas trying to play the game…. bottom line is we don’t know.

No to the idea of Frankenstein-ing a raid “arm” onto the dungeon “torso.”

In Guild Wars, we got new elite areas with increased party sizes.

(Urgoz’s Warren and The Deep)

Keep raids away from existing dungeons, and if anything create entirely new content for raids (that is created around the idea of having ten people).

Otherwise, you will notice that having 5 more players allows you to abuse the low level of pve difficulty that much more. (more blinds, more reflects, 0 challenge)

Cumulative damage (I thought I was doing more damage with each hit…. not adding it to a total combo)

Charge skills
and other skills that require a key to be held down rather than simply being pushed.

Mashing the one key in downed state even though Bandage is a channeled skill and you only need to push it once.

Wondering how to get to Fort Trinity for the first time for personal story, since the green marker leads you to asura gates that are not accessible (like the one at the vigil keep).

I did not know you could equip underwater utilities and an elite skill.

Putting a rune on your Aqua breather didn’t actually give you the stat bonus on land (contrary to what the hero panel said).

Armor skins purchased from the gemstore had a weight class associated with it. (i bought primeval armor for my ranger)

Justdeifyme.9387:

Anet doesn’t want to add it.
Quite a bunch of players don’t want it either.
It has low priority.
It’s still in work.

Pick one.

Colin said in an interview that he would like to see dueling implemented into the game.

That leaves only the bottom two.

:)

Shut up and take my money.

lol

Koviko.3248:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Sorry I’m just not impressed. There are players in dragon ball who literally have no idea what they are doing…

…and it looks like you just got a video of one team being stacked with good/okay players and another team with okay/bad players.

Happens in PvP all the time.

Personally, I play almost exactly the way the OP plays and I’ve come into losing games and personally turned them around. Having one really strong player on your team can turn the tide in your favor, especially if you can deliberately take advantage of the Quad damage to really push your team over the tipping point. This playstyle is very effective.

Knowing how to play is always going to be more effective than mashing keys and flailing around like a fool.

Regardless, the video shows his team doing well…. it would be different if the two teams were very close in total score…. and when you looked at the score breakdown 90% of the points on his team were all him.
THAT would be carrying.

He is on a good team.

Keep in mind there are no assists awarded in this gametype and all enemies that have been tagged that die award personal score to all players that have tagged.

You can see in the video that the team is sticking together and working as a team…. and claiming you carried because you had the best personal score is nonsense.

Sorry I’m just not impressed. There are players in dragon ball who literally have no idea what they are doing…

…and it looks like you just got a video of one team being stacked with good/okay players and another team with okay/bad players.

Happens in PvP all the time.

Yes…. Ice armor please!
no fur coats or hats to protect you from cold….

Armor made of cold to embrace it!

Darker/more variety for skin/fur/body color.

Particularly…. I would want some darker blacks/greys.

The darkest black skin color on a human creates strange “highlighted” areas around the nose ears and chin…. almost like a bronze statue that had been getting molested.

Magnito.6187:

My ele is an asuran.

There we go…. found your problem.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scroll_of_Knowledge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tome_of_knowledge

I posted in this thread over a year ago, and I’ve long since given up on completing dive master.

I’m pretty sure all of the issued started happening back when anet implemented anti flyhacking measures; lots of diving goggles completely broke, because the game couldn’t tell that you were landing in the water.

The server basically rubberbands your location around when it detects you moving on the vertical axis too quickly, and it completely breaks some diving locations.

kitten I wish we could visit cantha.

Manu.6078:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

get the sunless scepter. keep the crossing.

Aim for another Teq’s hoard and choose the dagger, nice setup for a condi necro.

but but but that’s what marjory’s dagger is for!

get the sunless scepter. keep the crossing.

Okay everyone…. break out your history textbooks and open them up to chapter 4 section 1.

Implementation of Ascended Accessories.

The First ascended items players were able to obtain were rings.
These rings were obtained through FotM.

Some time afterward, The Laurel system was said to be implemented, which would allow purchase of ascended amulets.

At the time of this announcement, there were several players who had worked diligently to earn the materials required to craft an exotic amulet called the triforge pendant.

Rather then making the amulet useless after the implementation of ascended amulets, Anet developers decided to allow players to upgrade their exotic Triforge pendant to an ascended version. This was done simply to acknowledge the fact that players had worked hard to earn the amulet, and they deserved to be able to continue using it.

Embrace The Bold.7619:

Arietta The Broken.1875:

I pug 50s daily and generally I never have bad experiences. The small percentage of the time that I do I truly believe is due to people getting 70 AR and assuming they are ready for FoTM 50 disregarding their own personal reward level.
I somewhat miss the character based- level based system where you had to do 1-50 on each character and couldn’t do a higher level until you’d actually gotten there yourself.
While this understandably is a minority -probably just me- view I think it at least meant when you were doing 50 and beyond you could be sure everyone else in your team was going to be experienced.

You could always do what ever level you wanted just have someone join who had the proper level… how do you thing people leveled and still got maw every time way back when? Also back then people were even worse at fractals shudders I still do this day will not fully pug a 30 or under.

Agreed…. generally speaking, when pugging FotM the higher the difficulty scale, the fewer inexperienced players you will get.

This becomes especially troublesome at 20-30 because the difficulty increase vs player skill increase doesn’t match and what you get is a bunch of players who don’t grasp all of the mechanics (that never needed to be grasped prior to 20).

Like dragging all the ice elementals to the team during the snowblind fractal….
How to efficiently break the arm seals on cliffside… etc.

In addition, you get fewer fails in areas like: putting the wisps in, preventing the grawl from killing captives, getting the door open for dredge, etc.

Its just that sweet spot for 20-30 where player skill does not match increased difficulty.

pics or it didn’t happen.

For sPvP, we have a very different trait/gear setup system… and your trait runes/sigils loadout for pvp does not change what your character will be running if he returns back to pve…. and vice versa.

Is there any chance we will see this feature come to WvW?

Currently, if I wish to WvW… I need to retrait, swap my gear, etc.

Why not implement a third and separate trait runes/sigils loadout for WvW?

6150+ hrs
3 Precursors from Mystic Forge: Dawn, Rage , and The Hunter
0 Precursors as drops/loot

Zui.9245:

And here I was thinking that we meleed the archdiviner because a guardian is block-tanking him, that no harpies actually need to be killed in the harpy fractal to stealth past each portion, that if you did want to kill harpies there’s no need to 1200 range them, that both dredge fractal bosses can be meleed, etc.

I’ve never once been on a pug team where any of these things has happened… save for killing harpies in melee range….. but like i said you dont just teleport from harpy to harpy….. you make your way to them, and while you are doing the jumping puzzle it doesn’t hurt to do dps with range until you make it to melee range….. and by the time you get there at most you will have time for one 100b before the harpy is dead.

Half the time pugs don’t even stealth past the harpies as sad as that sounds…… they do it with reflects. Though when they do stealth, they always kill one or two to eliminate the need to reapply stealth midway through, since it requires too much coordination for a pug team.

Even some organized groups do this.

fishball.7204:

I once did a fotm 50 with a 4k AP ele, he did fantastic and knew what to do haha.

Then this other time we had a 18k AP rifle warrior >_<. Insta kick lmao.

Pugs can be good but kitten luck of the draw etc

I’m getting pretty tired of people bashing players who keep a ranged weapon handy.

Sure if the warrior is camping his rifle then he is a noob …but….

Honestly…. unless you are running a completely meta team….. which is something that rarely happens with pugs… Camping GS is more dps.

If you don’t believe me, the DnT people that everyone swears by say GS camping is better DPS assuming you don’t miss your rotations.

Currently, if you are not running PS EA, camping GS does more damage than weapon swapping to weapons you aren’t traited to.

…and there are loads of occasions where pure melee classes sit there for a moment and take a timeout while players with ranged dps work their magic. ….so why not keep a ranged weapon as your secondary during those moments instead of being useless? (you don’t need to have it equipped at all times)

Examples:

Legendary Archdiviner fight…

You don’t want to be in melee range at all times.

You melee while he is putting down AoE circles, and you range and maintain cripple while he is ambling around looking for people to rek with his hammer.

You rotate between GS and rifle.

Rifle stacks just as much vuln as mace offhand, and you are still hitting while the boss is in his “stay away mode”

Uncategorized fractal….. before you stealth through the jp portion you need to kill a few harpies…. and you start dps on harpies that are 1200 range with rifle until you get in melee range, the harpy will be about half hp when you get there, and then swap to gs and finish him off.

You need ranged DPS for Dredge fractal boss.

You need ranged weapons to take down burning oil in ascalon fractal.

For Fire Shaman, most teams range the boss and longbow has an immobilize and rifle has a cripple….. running either one of those definitely helps.

etc.

Granted, there are occasions where you don’t need a ranged weapon at all and there is no excuse for having them equipped during those times…… but there are also plenty of reasons for a warrior to have a ranged weapon equipped at certain points during fractals.

…and since camping GS has marginally better dps, why not keep a rifle or longbow in place of axe mace at certain times?

Armor aesthetics rely heavily on what type of physique you have chosen for your character also.

…and certain physiques look better wearing certain types of armor.

Try using a total makeover kit (if you have one laying around) to preview the different body types available, and be amazed at how much it affects the size and shape of your different armor pieces.

Yep…. Was in a fotm 49 yesterday on my zerk warrior that was straight from hell.

Swamp was fine…. then we got uncategorized fractal and needed reflects/projectile destruction.

We had a thief that did not know how to blast stealth with shortbow…. and didn’t use smoke screen to stop projectiles.

Two elementalists, neither of which knew how to blast might…

One of the elementalists at least had a focus, but the other was completely clueless and didn’t even know why having a focus would help.

Guardian refused to bring shield of the avenger….

We wiped on the raving asura 4x, and I finally had enough and decided to tell the thief to bring and use his smoke screen, and told the guardian to bring soa and actually use his wall of reflection, and asked the eles to blast might (at least drop a fire field or something) before we went in.

Then they got all kitten and the bad elementalist told me the reason we were wiping was because I wasn’t running PS. Its not like anyone even mentioned PS before that point.

How is it possible to know the ideal team comp meta builds…. proceed to run a non-ideal team comp….. fail to equip the proper skills themselves… and then try and enforce others to run the meta….?

Do they just want to be carried everywhere they go or something?

I wanted to tell them that using a PS warrior with two elementalists on a team… was like shooting a handgun at a mosquito… but instead I just went with it, because I was really tired of the terrible thief and the terrible ele and the terrible guardian. One of the eles was at least making the effort to do his job. (using earth ele for Old Tom, swirling winds, etc.)

I loaded up PS EA and we wiped a fifth and final time and I had had enough at that point.

I just left… and I watched their team advert in the lfg gain a 5th member….. then 20 minutes later show up again 4/5, still advertising the same spot in the fotm run (Last boss 2nd fractal).

smh

I bet one or more of those guys didn’t even have the proper amount of AR…. but there is no way to even inspect other players….. so you just have to cross your fingers that you get a team of players who know what they are doing.

Hello guys….

I currently run 6 5 0 0 3 on one of my warriors.
III IX XI
V X
III

and 6 6 0 0 2 on the other.
V X XI
V X XIII
III

On the first build, I run 2x greatswords….. and on the second build…. I run dual 1h weapons on both sets.

The way both of these builds are setup….. I am pretty sure I’m doing more damage than I ever did back when I would weapon swap between GS / Axe + Mace, simply by camping the weapons I am fully traited for.

The first build is traited for camping greatsword, and the second build is traited for camping 1h’s (you can still use weapon swap ….. to swap to another GS or a different 1h+1h set or offhand).

I’m simply not seeing numbers that support the notion that players should be weapon swapping to untraited weaponry.

I truly believe it is overall better to just camp one weapon set the entire time.

Its no wonder all the meta builds have given up on warrior as a DPS class, and now use him to buff the rest of the party’s damage instead.

Sure PS and EA are nice….. but I feel like so many players have swapped off the solo vs party-wide thing because you are literally flushing your damage potential down the toilet when you swap to a weapon (set) that you aren’t fully traited in.

Think about it…. and draw your focus to the Master trait in the Strength line…..
For your Master trait, you are forced to choose between a trait that will either help you with GS or Axe.

If you are missing a trait that increases your damage, then you are losing dps when you swap to the weapon set you are not completely traited in….

…and if you are partially traited in both axe and greatsword….. you are doing 80% of your dmg potential 100% of the time.

Now….. PS EA dual banner has its place in an organized team…. but when you are not in an optimized team….. and you find yourself carrying pugs….

If you want to test this solo or on a team….
Try out camping the dual 1h weapon sets (build number 2).

After you’ve tried that try the gs camping build.
It does sacrifice some vulnerability stacking…. so make sure you are on a team that can stack vulnerability without you.)

The reason why this item still drops is because Anet wants to give new players a chance to complete the collection.

They did not put any forethought into the windersday collection when they included areas like orr, since it basically excluded anyone who was to low of a level at the time.

After a while, players will no longer see the grubby packages….. but I’m pretty certain it is not a bug.

I hope they update the tooltip to reflect the actual damage the skill does.

Under water combat in Guild Wars 2, is the best under water combat I have seen in any game in my entire life.

They have created a wonderful platform to build upon with under water combat, and Guild Wars 2 is the first game where I actually don’t mind diving into the water and fighting for a while.

As I said though…. I don’t mind it….. and its Anet’s job to change that into I enjoy it…. but they seem to be steering players away from underwater combat, since they remove it from the game every chance they get.

A bit of polishing would go a long way, and if the development team finished what they started with under water combat, I would actually enjoy it quite a bit.

Colin said Anet as been working on giving us capes….. but it is surprisingly complicated with the game’s current engine.

Zero Day.2594:

So, you’ve realized that condition ticking would be a hard counter, and that’s great. Why would they be a hard counter?

Splash damage from melee, or damage appearing from a melee hit, there are three things that kind of bother me:

1. The damage number moves with the target for a short (1/2 second) time after hit, likely not the case. In this case you can see where the target is going and just follow it.
2. Melee weapons do have a short range to them (like you don’t have to be standing RIGHT ON THE TARGET, like a foot away), if the melee hit strikes twice while the target is getting out of range, the two hits can indicate where the target is going, allowing you to follow it.
3. If evades are picked up (they shouldn’t be by your logic, since you didn’t hit anything, and there was no feedback), and if they’re picked up more than once (like with 2nd point) can again allow you to follow the target.

The above shouldn’t be reasons to just say “no, lets not let numbers appear when they’re hit” (but you asked what’s so detrimental…), but the to lead you into a handful of questions bellow (which is why your post is still categorized as the same frivolous topic that’s been brought up yet again)…

Stealth used defensively, what does it do to the incoming damage? What other ways do stealth users (talking about mesmer and thief here) have to deal with being damaged without relying on stealth? How do other, non-stealth, classes deal with being damaged? Are there any draw backs to using stealth? Are there any draw backs to using other ways to mitigate damage that are used by other classes?

So, you acknowledge that there is a way to loosely tell where a stealthed target is (AA chains, Adrenaline, Zeal/Justice, …), and that’s great! Most people don’t seem to even acknowledge this. Would it be weird if those ways weren’t exactly meant for that? And why wouldn’t they be meant for that? Which links back to the top little paragraph with various questions.

Um might not be relevant since it’s a different game and different design… What allows a Rogue from WoW to survive in combat and out of stealth? Like what’s in it’s design/how is it designed to allow that? (And weirdly enough, there have been suggestions, on GW2 forums, ignoring the design differences, asking to have stealth function like stealth in WoW – I’m only asking those two questions to hopefully get you to think about the design of things)

---

Ahh, scrap all that, let’s just implement the suggestion and see what happens for 6 months! That should provide some real feedback on this case, instead of head scratching and arguing with each other.

Honestly, I really appreciate your feedback more than anyone else posting in this thread. At least you are entertaining the thought of my suggestion, and you have valid concerns that don’t amount to you coming off as condescending in any way.

Since you asked…. I have entertained the thought that some of the ways I described are not available to other classes (besides warrior and guardian) to actually determine whether or not you actually are hitting opponents with melee dmg other than auto attacking. I feel that adding the numbers/splash would of course be beneficial to these classes, and it is only for the sake of balance.

As far as how the numbers work when appearing above opponent’s heads…. I don’t believe they actually follow a moving opponent the way you think they do….. but hitting once and having the splash appear in one spot then hitting again as your foe is retreating could potentially have the results you describe. How useful that would be in a fight (to actually determine where your foe is headed) would all depend on how long the stealthed foe stayed in melee range.

If this was actually implemented for a while, and players actually experienced having this tweak work for and/or against them, I believe everyone would realize that it is such a minute change that it would be hard to even call it a nerf.

Ragion.2831:

TheBlackLeech suggested damage splash, if im not mistaken, this means when you hit someone, a stealthy opponent that is close by takes some of the damage.

by damage splash i mean the little number that appears above a foe when it is struck, looks like this for crit dmg notice the red splash.

Additionally…..

They could add collections for all thew weapon sets:

Dredge weapons
Norn Weapons t123
Human Weapons t123
Charr Weapons t123
Sylvari Weapons t23
Asura Weapons t13
Pact (endgame) Weapons
Lionguard Weapons
Pirate Weapons
Pearl Weapons
Vigil Weapons
Priory Weapons
Whispers Weapons
etc.

Zero Day.2594:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Lucky Shot.7650:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

Notice how it’s snowballing into absurdity.

Part of the reason why it is doing so is that you’re only focused on stealth. Let’s tweak it, and forget about the rest of the game. That’s already absurd.

But now that you’ve vented, and have seen that there are others that are also by your side… Do you at least feel a bit better? Or still irritated?

I’m irritated moreso than ever, because I have a legitimate complaint that is being dismissed as rubbish simply due to the fact that there have been so many frivolous complaints about stealth in the past.

Enlighten me: how is your frivolous complaint about stealth less frivolous then the others came before yours?

Can you spot the difference?

Frivolous Argument: Remove stealth from the game, because I think it is overpowered after I died to some thief in pvp or wvw.

My Argument: Please give players the ability to visually see the damage dealt (in numbers) when they strike an opponent in stealth, because there is too much of a guessing game involved against players using stealth defensively.

Yeah, it still falls into the same category that get’s ridiculed and not taken seriously.

Why?

Let’s “tweak” something, regardless of how it will effect other aspects of the class. It’s balanced because I said so, not because I’ve taken everything into consideration.

….what is so detrimental about adding the dmg splash back to stealthed opponents?

Well, it kind of voids the purpose of stealth in that situation.
Similarly how channeling spells casted before a user enters stealth POINT EXACTLY to where the stealthed guy is. (Honestly, a half-kitten ’ed implementation, in both directions – for and against stealth).
Besides splash damage I guess you would also want bleeding/condition ticks to show up, since that also makes sense and I mean at that point AoE splash damage shows up, why not have the condition ticks show up. (yeah, slippery slope)
So, now we have a stealthed guy, running around with damage/ticks floating above his head pointing to exactly where he is as if he wasn’t stealthed… cool. He tried to survive by hiding (not buffing) himself only to be tracked just as easily, o well I guess he’s option is to break out of stealth and die fighting.

---

I will be back in a couple hours.

Of course it would not apply to ranged attacks…
Think about it a bit more…. there would be no problems offensively, since your opponent will not just flail his weapon around until after you’ve initiated combat and he knows he is in a fight.

In the distant past, there have been suggestions about still having some conditions, such as bleeds, tick on stealthed opponents….. (with the irl vs fantasy comparison argument that blood leaving the body would show up) and at the time I agreed with those suggestions.

That was quite some time ago, however and I feel that would make bleeding almost a hard counter to stealth…. and that is not the route I want to go with this.

Plus, condition damage builds are strong against stealth anyway, so it is not really necessary.

…and lol I agree with you about some poor stealthed guy running around with all sorts of numbers above his head, and that’s not what I want either.

I just want the dmg splash for melee attacks to show up.

If you swipe a melee weapon at a stealthed opponent, and you hit him….. you are going to deal that damage whether or not numbers show up.

If it is an auto attack, you can tell if you struck something based on your auto-attack chain progressing, for other attacks you will be building adrenaline on warrior or watching your justice effect rise on guardian, if you hit a stealthed opponent with a fire or air sigil, you can see the sigil proc at the opponent’s location, etc.

In all of these cases, having a damage splash would change nothing for a player who knows where to look.

There are very few cases where you will be striking a stealthed foe with a melee weapon that do not fall into the situations above. So why not just have the numbers show up? Why do we have to play all these games?

Why should you lose your tell if you have a full adrenaline bar?
Why should you lose your tell if you have used your virtue of justice?

etc.

Zero Day.2594:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Lucky Shot.7650:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

Notice how it’s snowballing into absurdity.

Part of the reason why it is doing so is that you’re only focused on stealth. Let’s tweak it, and forget about the rest of the game. That’s already absurd.

But now that you’ve vented, and have seen that there are others that are also by your side… Do you at least feel a bit better? Or still irritated?

I’m irritated moreso than ever, because I have a legitimate complaint that is being dismissed as rubbish simply due to the fact that there have been so many frivolous complaints about stealth in the past.

Enlighten me: how is your frivolous complaint about stealth less frivolous then the others came before yours?

Can you spot the difference?

Frivolous Argument: Remove stealth from the game, because I think it is overpowered after I died to some thief in pvp or wvw.

My Argument: Please give players the ability to visually see the damage dealt (in numbers) when they strike an opponent in stealth, because there is too much of a guessing game involved against players using stealth defensively.

Yeah, it still falls into the same category that get’s ridiculed and not taken seriously.

Why?

Let’s “tweak” something, regardless of how it will effect other aspects of the class. It’s balanced because I said so, not because I’ve taken everything into consideration.

….what is so detrimental about adding the dmg splash back to stealthed opponents?

Lucky Shot.7650:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

Notice how it’s snowballing into absurdity.

Part of the reason why it is doing so is that you’re only focused on stealth. Let’s tweak it, and forget about the rest of the game. That’s already absurd.

But now that you’ve vented, and have seen that there are others that are also by your side… Do you at least feel a bit better? Or still irritated?

I’m irritated moreso than ever, because I have a legitimate complaint that is being dismissed as rubbish simply due to the fact that there have been so many frivolous complaints about stealth in the past.

Enlighten me: how is your frivolous complaint about stealth less frivolous then the others came before yours?

Can you spot the difference?

Frivolous Argument: Remove stealth from the game, because I think it is overpowered after I died to some thief in pvp or wvw.

My Argument: Please give players the ability to visually see the damage dealt (in numbers) when they strike an opponent in stealth, because there is too much of a guessing game involved against players using stealth defensively.

Zero Day.2594:

Notice how it’s snowballing into absurdity.

Part of the reason why it is doing so is that you’re only focused on stealth. Let’s tweak it, and forget about the rest of the game. That’s already absurd.

But now that you’ve vented, and have seen that there are others that are also by your side… Do you at least feel a bit better? Or still irritated?

I’m irritated moreso than ever, because I have a legitimate complaint that is being dismissed as rubbish simply due to the fact that there have been so many frivolous complaints about stealth in the past.

We’ve got players who enjoy having the “stealth cushion” to prevent them from actually dying in a fight, will go to any lengths to defend it….

We’ve got players in here who are genuinely bad, and have no idea how stealth works and probably get rekt against stealth….

…and then there’s me who really enjoys stealth as a mechanic but I think the defensive aspect of it needs to be toned down a tiny bit.

…and nobody is even addressing the tweak I’ve suggested of adding a dmg splash to stealthed opponents, and instead everyone continues to dance around the subject and try and tell me I don’t know how to play the game, or pointlessly bash stealth because they have no idea how to fight a stealthed opponent.

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

To prove to you that It is not an L2P issue.

And how would you do that?
You win: You’re a good player, since I’m likely stealthed in the fight you would show me that you know how to counter stealth.
You lose: Well, yeah how should I tell whether you’re a good or bad player?
Get my point?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If a warrior is running a build that gives him enough mobility to actually escape, then he never posed a legitimate threat to begin with….

They do. Try some wvw roaming.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

But at any rate at least you know where he went and you aren’t waiting to see if he is going to pop back up next to you again.

They usually come back, depending on what their initial goal was.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You know where they went and you know when they are gone…. and its not a guessing game.

They can come back just as fast as they ran.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Its hard to understand how you can attempt to justify something that needs to be adjusted without dancing around the subject at hand.

Stealth allows opponents to get away when they should have been turned into score for the other team.

No, sorry, others can get away too, it’s not just thieves and you lose out on the points as well.

Yeah lets talk about warriors in this thread about stealth…. classic strawman stuff happening right now in this thread, guys!

I play warrior in WvW from time to time, and I know the difference between having my mobility set on and having my dps set on….. You can’t change weapons in sPvP once the match has started. If you are running mobility you are sacrificing a lot of damage potential, and you are setting yourself up to lose a fight and need to flee to begin with. If you would have simply used your dps set, you would have probably won the fight, and if you are fleeing that only goes to show that you aren’t winning.

Thieves do not sacrifice any damage output to have their escape at their disposal.

Do you not see how this is imbalanced?

Ok, I see you don’t have any arguments any more so you need to divert from what we were talking about. Ok, mission accomplished, I guess, as my goal was that you guys start to wonder if not being able to fight a stealthed opponent might indeed be a L2P issue. So: have fun.

You are the one talking about warriors, I’m merely proving you wrong. Since you are the one out of arguments, and you have resorted to classic strawman arguments instead, I think you need to look in the mirror when you make that statement.

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

To prove to you that It is not an L2P issue.

And how would you do that?
You win: You’re a good player, since I’m likely stealthed in the fight you would show me that you know how to counter stealth.
You lose: Well, yeah how should I tell whether you’re a good or bad player?
Get my point?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If a warrior is running a build that gives him enough mobility to actually escape, then he never posed a legitimate threat to begin with….

They do. Try some wvw roaming.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

But at any rate at least you know where he went and you aren’t waiting to see if he is going to pop back up next to you again.

They usually come back, depending on what their initial goal was.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You know where they went and you know when they are gone…. and its not a guessing game.

They can come back just as fast as they ran.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Its hard to understand how you can attempt to justify something that needs to be adjusted without dancing around the subject at hand.

Stealth allows opponents to get away when they should have been turned into score for the other team.

No, sorry, others can get away too, it’s not just thieves and you lose out on the points as well.

Yeah lets talk about warriors in this thread about stealth…. classic strawman stuff happening right now in this thread, guys!

I play warrior in WvW from time to time, and I know the difference between having my mobility set on and having my dps set on….. You can’t change weapons in sPvP once the match has started. If you are running mobility you are sacrificing a lot of damage potential, and you are setting yourself up to lose a fight and need to flee to begin with. If you would have simply used your dps set, you would have probably won the fight, and if you are fleeing that only goes to show that you aren’t winning.

Thieves for example do not sacrifice any damage output to have their escape at their disposal.

Do you not see how this is imbalanced?

Jana.6831:

Why would I need to duel you to see that stealth is no learn to play issue? Makes no sense at all, that was why I was asking.

To prove to you that It is not an L2P issue.

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

back on topic….
When an opponent without stealth begins to flee….
You can see them as they flee and properly pursue since you can tell where they are headed.
You can swap to a ranged weapon, and actually hit them, since you have a target.
You can snare them; immobilize them, cripple them, freeze them, etc much more reliably.
You can see their hp, and know if it is worth to chase for an extra second or if you should abandon your cause and head back to point.

This thread is about adding damage splashes to stealthed opponents.
Why are you and many others who play thief so afraid of having damage splashes added?

Do you not think that is fair?

You can’t hit a fleeing warrior, except as a ranger. And even that might not really bother them. Try it.
We are rather annoyed because you guys don’t know anything about thieves but demand nerf after nerf and thief is nerfed and nerfed – it’s not that hard to understand, I guess.

If a warrior is running a build that gives him enough mobility to actually escape, then he never posed a legitimate threat to begin with….

But at any rate at least you know where he went and you aren’t waiting to see if he is going to pop back up next to you again.

You know where they went and you know when they are gone…. and its not a guessing game.

Its hard to understand how you can attempt to justify something that needs to be adjusted by dancing around the subject at hand.

Stealth allows opponents to get away when they should have been turned into score for the other team, and the entire time the whole thing plays mind games and creates uncertainty with the opponent.

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’d be happy to duel you 1v1 and I’ll show you its not a l2p issue.

The point is that your argument “If an enemy flees, you’ve won.” does not cut it.

I should not lose out on a kill because someone stealths and runs away.
…especially if it just gives them the opportunity to come back after a moment or two and try again.

You do know that I main a thief? So why would we duel because I see you standing around clueless while I’m stealthed?
We can do that if you’re on an EU server.
My point was that other classes who have no or little access to stealth can run away as well.

Yes I know you main thief, you said so less than 5 minutes ago. I’d like to prove to you that it is indeed not an L2P issue so you might actually listen instead of lumping legitimate complains with those which are frivolous.

back on topic….
When an opponent without stealth begins to flee….
You can see them as they flee and properly pursue since you can tell where they are headed.
You can swap to a ranged weapon, and actually hit them, since you have a target.
You can snare them; immobilize them, cripple them, freeze them, etc much more reliably.
You can see their hp, and know if it is worth to chase for an extra second or if you should abandon your cause and head back to point.

This thread is about adding damage splashes to stealthed opponents.
Why are you and many others who play thief so afraid of having damage splashes added?

Do you not think that is fair?

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

1) Sigil of fire does not proc 100% of the time and is not practical in all builds.
2) If it was possible to know where a stealthed opponent was at all times, stealth just would not work period.
3) Thieves can pressure with ranged attacks as well.

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Jana.6831:

DarkSyze.8627:

Stealth is not challenge. Why? Example; if fight opponent in boxing ring and opponent health is almost down, than sudden opponent disappear and appear with full health. And opponent repeat same over and over, is challenge fight? is challenge hiding instead fighting?

This is main problem with thief class; too much stealth repeat and time waste. Other mmo game do not have this because game would not be challenge and fun and would waste time for player and game. So why arena net put it in game?

Again, main problem with stealth

1. Too much stealth repeat
2. Too much time waste

Player do not want waste time in game, player want challenge and fun. Stealth is enemy to fun and time waste in game.

If you waste time while your opponent is in stealth, then it’s your bad – thieves aren’t invincible when stealthed.
Sometimes I think I’m talking to small children “I’m sooo afraid of what I can’t see”.

He is right though…. unless you are a psychic, even the most experienced players lose track of stealthed opponents from time to time if he/she fails the guessing game.

Think about what stealth is.

Its purpose as a mechanic is to make your opponent unsure of where you are and what you are doing.

With thieves in particular, this gives them another opportunity to retreat and ooc when they feel like the fight is not going/will not go their way and when they want, they can simply return for another cheap shot. Unless you properly guess which direction the thief is retreating in, this will go on forever until someone makes a mistake.

It is literally impossible to predict where a fleeing opponent in stealth is going with 100% accuracy. Sure you can make educated guesses, and you will be right some of the time… but you will also be wrong some of the time as well.

All in all…. Everyone defending stealth always claims that its “not that hard” to know where stealthed opponents are. It’s “not hard” because difficulty plays no role in it. Its about making guesses, and if you guess wrong the stealthed opponent gets away.

I don’t lose track of thieves as I main a thief myself. I sometimes lose track of mesmers, engineers and rangers as they’ve got different mechanics.
If an enemy flees, you’ve won. Warriors are faster than any other class, eles can be faster than most other classes, engineers can be faster, so sorry but I still don’t get your point and think it’s a L2P issue as those who say it’s not to hard usually know how to counter a thief. The best method to learn it is to have a thief. Enjoy =) it’s a great class but people insisted it to be nerfed into the ground because they are afraid of stealth – so you might die a lot.

I’d be happy to duel you 1v1 and I’ll show you its not a l2p issue.

The point is that your argument “If an enemy flees, you’ve won.” does not cut it.

I should not lose out on a kill because someone stealths and runs away.
…especially if it just gives them the opportunity to come back after a moment or two and try again.

…and speed has nothing to do with it, when you don’t know where you should be going. If your opponent makes a b-line in one direction and you think he went the other way, you’ve only succeeded in putting more distance between him and yourself.

Jana.6831:

DarkSyze.8627:

Stealth is not challenge. Why? Example; if fight opponent in boxing ring and opponent health is almost down, than sudden opponent disappear and appear with full health. And opponent repeat same over and over, is challenge fight? is challenge hiding instead fighting?

This is main problem with thief class; too much stealth repeat and time waste. Other mmo game do not have this because game would not be challenge and fun and would waste time for player and game. So why arena net put it in game?

Again, main problem with stealth

1. Too much stealth repeat
2. Too much time waste

Player do not want waste time in game, player want challenge and fun. Stealth is enemy to fun and time waste in game.

If you waste time while your opponent is in stealth, then it’s your bad – thieves aren’t invincible when stealthed.
Sometimes I think I’m talking to small children “I’m sooo afraid of what I can’t see”.

He is right though…. unless you are a psychic, even the most experienced players lose track of stealthed opponents from time to time if he/she fails the guessing game.

Think about what stealth is.

Its purpose as a mechanic is to make your opponent unsure of where you are and what you are doing.

With thieves in particular, this gives them another opportunity to retreat and ooc when they feel like the fight is not going/will not go their way and when they want, they can simply return for another cheap shot. Unless you properly guess which direction the thief is retreating in, this will go on forever until someone makes a mistake.

It is literally impossible to predict where a fleeing opponent in stealth is going with 100% accuracy. Sure you can make educated guesses, and you will be right some of the time… but you will also be wrong some of the time as well.

All in all…. Everyone defending stealth always claims that its “not that hard” to know where stealthed opponents are. It’s “not hard” because difficulty plays no role in it. Its about making guesses, and if you guess wrong the stealthed opponent gets away.

Imho “Our time is now” was a really expensive way for people to dislike gw2 without even knowing anything about it.

The commercial was really bad.

ronpierce.2760:

Welcome to the world of necromancer. Most of our kitten abilities do this… I consider it class justice lol… He’ll as a necro I think half the time it interrupts regardless just for the hell of it sometimes…

I play necro, too but the difference here is say…. axe for example.

You are never going to hit anything behind you or without a target using axe 1 or 2….

But yeah its the same feeling…. like really?

Why cooldown?

Thanks anet….. Rush finally works and is usable again….

But now bladetrail is broken.

You have always thrown the sword straight forward, unlike some projectile skills that were indeed bugged and were able to fire backwards through the player… This one always fired forward, regardless of where your targeted foe is in relation to where your player is facing.

Now the skill locks on to whatever target you have….. and if that happens to be behind you…. and you are holding down any of the directional movement keys… the skill fails and goes on cooldown.

Why was this changed?

I feel like someone thought they were “doing a good job” by nerfing some problem that didn’t even exist with this skill.

no more skilled shots unless you are facing your target…. gg.

I will never understand why people feel the need to keep their tags up when:

1 They have no idea what they are doing

2 There is already a/some commander(s) tagged up who are trying to lead.

3 Nobody is following them after being tagged up for a while.

Its like a giant badge of stupidity being advertised for everyone to see.

I’m assuming you will both be able to summon allies as well as simply use their powers…. so I’ve divided them into a couple groups.

Temporary ally:
Shiro Tagachi – Melee attacker
Varesh Ossa – Melee attacker
Prince Rurik – Melee attacker
Rastigan the Eternal – Melee attacker
Gwen – Support
Mhenlo – Support
Master Togo – Support

Single cast powerful skill:
Palawa Joko – Large death magic aoe
Zhed Shadowhoof – Large Firestorm aoe
Frostmaw The Kinslayer – Large 360 degree swipe and knockback
Undead Lich – Large death magic aoe
The Blasphemy – Fires a series of chaos orbs which explode on impact
Kuunavang – Large Firestorm Aoe

Buttercup.5871:

Stealth is good. And no, the thief is in a really bad place right now. I can auto-attack a thief to death with my engi, I will kill him or get my objective no matter how many time he stealths. Stealth is good, losing to a thief is pretty bad. Maybe if you’re another thief you’d have an excuse for not winning a 1 vs 1.

If you actually read the OP, you would know that I’m not complaining about losing to thieves…. I’m complaining about stealthed opponents (thieves included) getting away from fights they should have died in.

Also, please tell me more about how you auto attack stealthed opponents with ranged weapons.

Zero Day.2594:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

Mirta.5029:

I just think that stealth has no place in games.

Yes! Down with stealth! Rise your pitch forks! Light your torches!

No. lets not.

Lets nip this in the bud before it snowballs into something absurd.

Stealth needs a bit of tweaking, but the mechanic is overall a wonderful addition to this game.

:/ Sorry to say, this topic has been brought up thousandths of times before and
snowballing into something absurd is exactly where this thread is going.

I was just trying to make it snowball faster so that it’s over quicker, to spare everyone some time.

btw, despite your intent of not having this snowball into something absurd, you already packed a little snowball in your OP.

Yeah…. because stealth needs to be tweaked…. not removed from the game

Zero Day.2594:

Mirta.5029:

I just think that stealth has no place in games.

Yes! Down with stealth! Rise your pitch forks! Light your torches!

No. lets not.

Lets nip this in the bud before it snowballs into something absurd.

Stealth needs a bit of tweaking, but the mechanic is overall a wonderful addition to this game.