Guild Wars 2

Seyiwaji.4082:

if you meet a team with 1 chronomancer you may win the match.
if you meet a team with 2 chronomancer you may still win the match.
if you meet a team with 3 chronomancer fight but forget about win.
if you meet a team with 4 chronomancer sit on base.
if you meet a team with 5 chronomancer you can disconnect.

in group those guys are OP. alone not. this is how it is.
every a bit skilled mesmer will now how to use double Time warp.
now if they are in teamspeak or have a good way to communicate, you can never win a team fight, the more chronoamcer are there.

this is how it is.

Nope.

You should be able to NTR Marjory from Kasmeer in Heart of Thorns.

Jace al Thor.6745:

This thread isn’t productive. Needs to be closed.
There’s too much misinformation being spread.

I’ve never seen so much fear-mongering from a single individual in my entire life.

Chronomancer is fine.

Chronomancer is fine.

princode.2750:

You can Mind Wrack 6 times in a row using Continuum Shift, Mimic and Signet of Illusions (you can use all shatters 6 times in a row actually…). Since Illusionary Persona is now baseline, all shatters will trigger on your character so you don’t even need any clone.
Overall you can use Continuum Shift and Mimic to use any utility skill 4 times, every 90s.

how is this not op

Because it isn’t.

butch.8136:

Velimere.7685:

butch.8136:

DanzelOPP.5068:

Once again EU fan boys can’t handle the fact that NA rocked your world. We might not have any competition but you can’t deny Abjured outplayed your best teams. Now continue with your crying about how they used “cheese” to win…and Abjured will still be carrying the trophy home.

They outplayed them.
I do feel like both TCG and Orng really underperformed too. (Which doesn’t mean it takes away from Abjured’s more than deserved win).

More than deserved? Like destiny? Sounds about right from winning straight out of the losers’ bracket for a finals’ double 2-0. Man can only do so little against predestination.

Huh? What?

Destiny?
They deserve the win because they played good. I didn’t know this implies destiny. English isn’t my mother tongue.

It isn’t mine either. I was trying to be funny; I guess I failed.

Jasher.6580:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Archaon.9524:

Jasher.6580:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Archaon.9524:

top players are not gonna stage a duel…and it’s the only way to prove your point, this or looking at a celestial nec jumping against a dd ele in esl destroying him (And trust me…it’s not gonna happen)

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/9456915

2:31:00 – watch the mid point.
And before you say that Nos had high DS, he hardly used it and could have started it with 5% with the same outcome.

He is going to ask for 5 more examples because that situation was an outlier. Trust me. He has made up his mind.

gonna try with exact same builds, i dunno the level of that ele (I’m not na so u dunno the level of players outside abj) but i’m gonna ask the best nec i can find (Hopefully proto if he want too test it) vs some top ele and we’ll see

i’ll let you know how it ended

Ok, how about this:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/10124128

7:39:00

Denshee wasn’t the only victim of Nos during WTS either. Look at 6:11:10.

From what I can see, Nos didn’t lose a single 1v1 vs any other top ele in WTS. Does this satisfy your definition of counter?

Where is the OP? Is he hiding somewhere?

Intel suggests he has gone underground.

Jekkt.6045:

reaper needs buffs if anything. it’s underperforming compared to current metabuilds.

/thread

butch.8136:

DanzelOPP.5068:

Once again EU fan boys can’t handle the fact that NA rocked your world. We might not have any competition but you can’t deny Abjured outplayed your best teams. Now continue with your crying about how they used “cheese” to win…and Abjured will still be carrying the trophy home.

They outplayed them.
I do feel like both TCG and Orng really underperformed too. (Which doesn’t mean it takes away from Abjured’s more than deserved win).

More than deserved? Like destiny? Sounds about right from winning straight out of the losers’ bracket for a finals’ double 2-0. Man can only do so little against predestination.

Teutos.8620:

Exedore.6320:

Changes to Shoutbow:

• Shout healing base amount healed was changed from 1480 (0.9) to 1000 (1.0).
• Warhorn trait makes warhorn skills remove 1 boon (used to be convert 1 boon) .

General changes:

• Vigor is 50% increase to endurance regeneration (old 100%).

Other builds also got buffs whereas Shoutbow didn’t see many.

You are forgetting all the cool stuff the Shoutbow got.

• the new ‘Vigorous Shouts’ include 3 traits, therefore you can f.e. now take the trait ’Shrug It Off" for an automatic Shout proc -> compensates for the healing per shout lost.
• ‘Endure Pain’ proc to avoid getting bursted down.
• Burst Mastery
• Condi remove on weapon swap
• Warrior’s Sprint
• Retaliation on getting crit
• more might on weapon swap
• +Healing Power per Might

This all sounded great on paper to the developers too which is why the nerfed it.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Velimere.7685:

princode.2750:

Velimere.7685:

But Mesmer is balanced.

Memser is currently balance now after the nerf to mantra but choromner as of now its not ok..still need some balance

if you spec PU shatter build…
when are in stealth you:
1. clear condition

Since when did Prismatic Understanding become Shadow’s Embrace? Also, Signet of the Ether is a heal skill, which means you lose your heal if you waste it on a phantasm.

The meta PU Shatter Mesmer build has no condition cleansing.

The “meta” build on meta battle…. which is what I assume you are talking about… uses sigil of generosity.

also… there is a trend on metabattle where the “meta” builds are just the builds that popular players stream, and are not necessarily ideal or even meta at all….

Its basically a super streamer fanboy website… I’ve seen super pro builds on there never get any recognition until they were used in tourneys, and then they went from “good” to “meta” rating.

Its a joke.

And the Mesmers we saw from TCG and oRNG are a joke as well? Okay…

runeblade.7514:

Then it is obvious that you weren’t watching the Guild Wars 2 2015 World Tournament Series. You probably misread the title of the youtube video and saw a montage of a random necromancer killing upscaled players in WvW.

Actually, it’s obvious that you weren’t. I watched the stream live on Twitch as a matter of fact. Since you seem to think it was hosted on YouTube instead, you definitely misread the title of the YouTube video and saw a montage of a random Necromancer upscaled newbie dying to players in WvW.

princode.2750:

Velimere.7685:

But Mesmer is balanced.

Memser is currently balance now after the nerf to mantra but choromner as of now its not ok..still need some balance

if you spec PU shatter build…
when are in stealth you:
1. clear condition

Since when did Prismatic Understanding become Shadow’s Embrace? Also, Signet of the Ether is a heal skill, which means you lose your heal if you waste it on a phantasm.

The meta PU Shatter Mesmer build has no condition cleansing.

That’s just the way Stronghold works: One team starts snowballing, the other team has no chance to recover whatsoever, and it’s always decided early on in the match.

runeblade.7514:

Exciton.8942:

We saw it took ages for a mesmer/thief combo to finish a necro,

Uh no.

All I saw is Nos getting instagib every time the camera decides to look at him.

I guess we weren’t watching the same thing; I was watching the Guild Wars 2 2015 World Tournament Series… and that wasn’t the case there at all.

But Mesmer is balanced.

Doesn’t Engineer have stealth and 5x Moa?

Ash ketchum.2051:

Yesterdaynight everyone went eating together. Before the tournament Nos and Helseth were laughing about that Nos should break Helseths arm. When we were eating suddenly they decided to armwrestle. Helseth won the first game. Than they did the same with their left hand. Nos litterly broke helseths arm. This seems pritty hostile to me.

spoilers:
Everything is on camera
Nos and Helseth are actually friends
Helseth will be fine after a few weeks

A broken arm doesn’t heal in a few weeks, and neither does a broken ego.

uhohhotdog.3598:

IWAY, ritspike, searing flames, etc.

Man, that’s some new school stuff right there. I remember Ranger Spike and EoE Bomb before IWAY. Anyway, people complained all of the time about other people’s builds in at least RA and TA.

Not all elite specializations are designed equally.

Pride.1734:

Hammerguard.9834:

But he wasn’t winning 1v1s vs eles. He either died or had help. I think at one point in the finals he died to the same ele twice in a row.

#hardcounter

See the following:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Ok, how about this:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/10124128

7:39:00

Watch the mini map. Nos chases the engaging D/P Thief off of mid who then goes to +1 the 1v1 Elementalist fight at the side point. The Thief then gets Phantaram really low and chases him off point leaving leaving Nos to 1v1 the enemy Elementalist. Nos waits till he swaps out of Water Attunement (watch the health spike up to full for Orng Swagmaster) before corrupting his boons and ends up chasing him off point.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Nier.8741:

I’ll give you people an example of what this class can do.

1.) They can have 3 phantasmal berserkers because of signet of ether AND F5

Who on earth runs signet of ether?

PvE players run Signet of Ether.

Pride.1734:

Velimere.7685:

Blinding Ashes is weak for a Grandmaster Trait by its application of single-target blind with a global recharge

Doesn’t blinding ashes have a cd for every target individually? like it can proc on 5 guys in a row.

It does not.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Archaon.9524:

Jasher.6580:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Archaon.9524:

top players are not gonna stage a duel…and it’s the only way to prove your point, this or looking at a celestial nec jumping against a dd ele in esl destroying him (And trust me…it’s not gonna happen)

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/9456915

2:31:00 – watch the mid point.
And before you say that Nos had high DS, he hardly used it and could have started it with 5% with the same outcome.

He is going to ask for 5 more examples because that situation was an outlier. Trust me. He has made up his mind.

gonna try with exact same builds, i dunno the level of that ele (I’m not na so u dunno the level of players outside abj) but i’m gonna ask the best nec i can find (Hopefully proto if he want too test it) vs some top ele and we’ll see

i’ll let you know how it ended

Ok, how about this:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/10124128

7:39:00

I love how he chased him off of the point. That was solid gold.

sephiroth.4217:

style.6173:

sephiroth.4217:

style.6173:

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Chronomancer’s actually in a good spot at the moment. It’s fairly balanced compared to other Mesmer specs, but it does have more room for skilled play with well timed Continuum Splits.

If your definition of good spot is being OP, then yes, you are correct.

If you are comparing it to D/D ele, then yes, it is weak.

And here’s the mandatory “D/D ele OP” I see in every unrelated thread.

Well, yeah but that is pretty much obvious to everyone except D/D eles at this point.

no just baddies imo.

I kill D/D eles just fine unless I’m playing flavor of the month class on a meta build that isn’t cele signant necro.

What he said.

MrForz.1953:

Sold Out.7625:

Pridedemon.3041:

For spvp i love my ranger and mesmer, both have great dps, good survivability and lots of utility, i never ever had a problem against an engie 1vs1 in arena, doesn’t matter if i am holding or attacking a point.

I don’t see how this is -not- an attempt at trolling.

Me either. You literally stole the words from my keyboard on this one.

Just as I was going to type something, I finished reading the rest of the replies.

Laraley.7695:

I do not think they played badly, but Abjured was just better. I agree with the fact Sindrener was nowhere near to the level of Toker’s decaps

I was actually surprised to see Abjured’s Elementalists go down the most behind #Nostate. Then again, they lost a decent amount of Healing Power after the update.

chibbi.3706:

Where exactly did I say it was not their fault they had a bad comp ?
Although, most players only play one class, so you try to work with what you have.

Did you not watch the pregame team captain interview? Both R O M and Five Gauge agreed that having two multi-classers is a minimum requirement.

Sunshine.5014:

Burn.5401:

I’m from EU and it’s hilarious how some people discredit The Abjured for using eles in their comp like some mysic ritual forbid the other teams from playing with 5 eles if they wanted to. Face it – oRNG’s rotations were bad in the grand final and TA took maximum advantage of that. Do I need to remind that oRNG were using a BURN guardian throughout most of the games? Stop crying and give these guys some cheers kitten .

+1 no one forbid the EU team to play 4 Ele or 5 Ele. It’s clear with the game they they got totally outrotated. Classes or what not doesn’t help oRNG to win if they rotate like that. Ele is just an excuse people try to pull out to explain for the poor performance.

Some people just need an excuse to discredit is all.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Laraley.7695:

dominik.9721:

Laraley.7695:

Photinous.4628:

Laraley.7695:

dominik.9721:

Only reason oRNG is slacking,is that their comp is just trash against Abjured. Abjured gets carried by duable ele. Just look at those 4v2 – eles still alvie after 2min – such balanced.
Abjured is the team which is favoured the most by the last balanced patch .

Either your warrior has to fight an ele or an ele has to fight a nec. They are just in a huge disadvantage if you consider the comps.
Doesn’t matter if chaith and nos are down eles will carry 3v5

Really? Because what I saw was oRNG not being able to keep up with the Abjured in the last 4 games. Their rotations weren’t that great, they kept being backcapped, while their thief didn’t bother to do so that often. They also barely cared about any of the buffs on temple. The reason why they lost is not the fact abjured had two d/d eles, but simply because they were not doing everything perfectly. On the other hand I felt so much determination from the Abjured regarldess of the class they play.

Also, so much for cheese build. From burn guard to rampage warrior and to mesmer. I win buttons won’t win you the game. I’m not in all means saying that oRNG played badly, not at all. The games were great, but they just didn’t manage to do what the Abjured did: having map dominance despite the fact they were dying and frankly they were dying quite a lot.

Also, magic toker is really the mvp.

Pretty easy to have map dominance when you need 2-3 people to kill a d/d ele.

First of all, oRNG had an ele, too. They also had a guardian, so arguments like ‘’eles too hard to kill’’ are really irrelevant. Obviously you can blame the comp rather than realizing what mistakes they did. How many times did Toker decap or backcapped them? How many times did they stop him? How many times did oRNG lose important buffs due to not being able to react to the times? How many times did they chase someone with 4 people while losing everything else on the map? This is not due teamcomp at all. I like both teams, I was rooting for the Abjured a bit more, though, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to blindly pretend no one made any mistakes. Everyone did, it happns, but abjured were just better today and they definitely deserved it.

You just don’t get it. oRNG has two classes who can deal with 1v1s. Bunkerguard and Ele, allthough bunkerguard is slow and actually wasted for a 1v1. Further ele loses every 1v1 against nec. So the rotations you complain about are pretty much impossible to do if Abjured plays on 3 nodes while every single class of them is able to 1v1. Especially if you need 2 people at a minimum to defeat an ele.

I don’t say that abjured doesn’t deserve it but it’s pretty obvious that the comp or rather the recent balance patch mainly won the games.

@aktium the reason why the couldn’t get an advantage of the playerkills is that toker decaped ,while the eles carried 5v3/4v2

Frae did a good job with dealing with the d/d eles, too. If you have three players who are competent taking or stalemating a 1v1, it’s only your fault if you cannot rotate those properly. Again, how do you explain the fact that they:

1. Being decapped but not decapping them? I mean seriously they just let Toker decap ALL the time, it was only their fault.
2. Chasing a single player in 4 and losing everything else on the map?
3. Not caring about buffs?
4. Just rotating poorly despite the fact they had the opportunity to turn the game around?
5. Having Tage in 1v1 at tranq for the longest time when someone else could have been there?

It seriously not due to the comp, it helped them a bit, probably, but saying they won because of the patch is just silly and disrespectful. It’s not even they were totally losing the fights, it was pretty even. Tage and Denshee could have had 2v4 fights, but the difference is the Abjured didn’t let them by doing bad rotations like oRNG did. There’s seriously no reason why a thief shouldn’t be able to decap just because there’s a fight going on somewhere else. Toker wen’t for a decap several times when they were losing fights on a different point and that’s how they kept the map dominance.

Also, necro doesn’t win every single 1v1 against an ele.

Elementalist can die in 1v1, Phantaram died to Frae.

You need several people to kill a bunker guard, though.

I find it quite funny people say the Abjured won just because they had one more ele. If oRNG would have won people would be making posts about how EU is so much better than NA. Have some respect for the players.

This is the only true answer.

You are correct.

You gotta love it when a guy talks a lot of trash against two teams and then loses to both of them, though.

Laraley.7695:

Frae did a good job with dealing with the d/d eles, too. If you have three players who are competent taking or stalemating a 1v1, it’s only your fault if you cannot rotate those properly. Again, how do you explain the fact that they:

1. Being decapped but not decapping them? I mean seriously they just let Toker decap ALL the time, it was only their fault.
2. Chasing a single player in 4 and losing everything else on the map?
3. Not caring about buffs?
4. Just rotating poorly despite the fact they had the opportunity to turn the game around?
5. Having Tage in 1v1 at tranq for the longest time when someone else could have been there?

It seriously not due to the comp, it helped them a bit, probably, but saying they won because of the patch is just silly and disrespectful. It’s not even they were totally losing the fights, it was pretty even. Tage and Denshee could have had 2v4 fights, but the difference is the Abjured didn’t let them by doing bad rotations like oRNG did. There’s seriously no reason why a thief shouldn’t be able to decap just because there’s a fight going on somewhere else. Toker wen’t for a decap several times when they were losing fights on a different point and that’s how they kept the map dominance.

Also, necro doesn’t win every single 1v1 against an ele.

Elementalist can die in 1v1, Phantaram died to Frae.

You need several people to kill a bunker guard, though.

I find it quite funny people say the Abjured won just because they had one more ele. If oRNG would have won people would be making posts about how EU is so much better than NA. Have some respect for the players.

What he said.

ArthurDent.9538:

Abjured came to play conquest, oRNG came to play death match. The game mode turned out to be conquest, that is why Abjured won.

What he said.

tobascodagama.2961:

GS and Marauder implies PvP.

RevanCorana.8942:

LMAO Why did they translate for Nocturn as he was able to speak in english??

The better question is why didn’t they have him speak in his own video…

vangedas.7358:

Toker easily. He was the one that really messed up oRNG plans. Eles were just tanks.

What he said.

#Nostate went down the most, but it seems like Phantaram and Wakkey went down the most after him versus Orange Logo…

…Please buff Celestial!

Terrorsquad.4802:

This is full of missunderstandings,

This is yet another blanket statement.

Terrorsquad.4802:

not going to bother anymore to explain myself over and over ._.

You’d be incorrect anyway as I’ve already detailed without using any of the fallacies you’ve chosen or unwittingly applied (out of respect for you, I assume the latter).

Terrorsquad.4802:

Also reading your “expensive” sentences are exhausting me too much, I never saw anyone talking like you except for university professors..

You may be onto something there…

Terrorsquad.4802:

I even understand native English/Americans far more easier.. This is like overkill English the way you’re talking (no offensive!!)

If you think my English is good, you should see my Japanese; I may be good at English, but I am a master at my native language… but alas, we are both now off topic.

During the practices these teams had pre-WTS, they let TCG win so Helseth would get overconfident. For someone who claims to like beating opponents mentally, he totally walked right into that one.

This definitely needs to be addressed.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Now I see, u didnt undertood what I meant:

• I said irony earlier because Helseth is subject A, he’s saying C must be 3 so therefore C is 3.

What? Helseth isn’t participating in an argument here; you still don’t get it.

Terrorsquad.4802:

I never said ppl should listen to me instead of helseth.

No, but you clearly cited yourself as an authority in an attempt to make your argument sound more convincing when instead it had the opposite effect:

Terrorsquad.4802:

I’ve been in PvP before TCG even excisted, please.

You argued your opinion as factual, and instructed me to find your citation for you instead of citing your own sources; that’s not how a convincing argument works.

What’s more, you went on to imply that everyone is equal which is historically and statistically false: A single team or a single individual generally wins every major competition. This far more furthers the plausibility of the notion that some people are simply better than others rather than the notion that equal effort provides equal results. In the first place, how can you even determine that one individual or group’s effort over another’s? That’s simply subjective conjecture and altogether inconclusive.

The fact remains that your argument consisted of blanket statements, conjecture, and fallacies which is altogether attribute it as unconvincing (let alone single-handedly in each’s own right). If your argument was convincing, even if it wasn’t true, at least people would believe you. Why do you think I’m taking the other guy’s side in this? Because he actually made a convincing argument.

Terrorsquad.4802:

What I did meant was that ppl need to think on their own and pick everything with a grain of salt, even what top players say.

Top players sometimes say stuff that aint right (for the pvp community in general)

Example: Top Engineers were saying Engi’s were fine and balanced and didnt need any nerfs (5G on stream).

While you may have meant to caution people to consider the words of top players and that they sometimes say incorrect things, this is what you actually stated:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Top players say alot of things about their class and are obvious (mostly) biased.

That’s a fallacy of defective induction (read: faulty generalization) where you qualified a majority group based on its minority individuals. Again, I’m not a mind-reader, so I can only take you at your word and not anything you mean instead of what you actually say.

Terrorsquad.4802:

• Second thing u missunderstood was that I did NOT say you misinterpret anything, but I did because of my flaw in English. Thats why I brought it up.

There you go misunderstanding again. You didn’t say I misinterpreted anything? Well, I didn’t say you did. That’s another problem you keep having: You keep inferring from my words meaning you think is behind them instead of just taking them for what I am actually saying here. I was clarifying something, not asking you to read my mind and address something something else I meant but didn’t actually say.

Inferences and implications have no place in argumentation.

Anyway, sorry this response is late; I was participating in the beta.

Gravity Well needs to have a 1/4-second cast to be viable.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

I just googled “appeal to authority” and this is exactly what it told me:

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form: Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S. Person A makes claim C about subject S. Therefore, C is true.

I don’t see how someone can completely misinterpret that as you did…

Cheers!

And thats exactly what I thought it meant.. Not sure what you say is wrong.

Edit:

Word of advice: Im quite sure Im not the only one who can misinterpret stuff.
So a bit respect towards ppl with less English knowledge might be in order.

Some countries already speak 2-3 languages as mine, where we need to speak/write it fluently. So excuse me if I come over as the only one who can misinterpret expensive words, from a non Native English/American nevertheless.

Regardless of what you meant, that isn’t what you said, and I’m not a mind-reader. The point is that your entire argument against me was one big appeal to authority fallacy which is why I disregarded it.

The point is that citing yourself as an authority is fallacious whereas citing an accomplished, elite, and recognizable figure concerning the subject matter holds actual credibility. In this particular instance, it’s your word versus the word of Helseth on the matter of the state of Mesmer in PvP.

I don’t know what country you’re from, but English is one of the most difficult languages for us Japanese people to learn, and most of us will never even master the pronunciation of it due to how certain muscles develop; it can quite literally be impossible. I don’t even know why you brought that up with me.

Word of advice: I didn’t misinterpret anything; you did.

As a syllogism, the argument has the following basic structure:

• A says P about subject matter S.
• A should be trusted about subject matter S.
• Therefore, P is correct.

The second premise is not accepted as valid, as it amounts to an unfounded assertion that leads to circular reasoning able to define person or group A into inerrancy on any subject matter.

Evade is not distortion.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Aeroxe.8140:

I always thought rangers should have some sort of aoe shout support with of course proper cast-times (not instant). Maybe they could remodel spirits so that instead of getting AI, an active effect occurs?

My hope is that for the expansion, the druid relinquishes the pet. As much as I understand how pet control is the profession mechanic…it’s just too much passivity for my tastes.

Nah they need T-Rex elite.
Where a dinosaur appears, and kill someone in 1 hit.

Confirmed velociraptor pets in Heart of Thorns? Gurassic World 2?

Allandiah.1534:

Tontonino.9736:

Belial.9350:

I don’t think that would make much different, 50000 is still a freaking huge amount of money FOR PLAYING A GAME.

Oh, yes it would. At the end each player gets a little more than $10k if I’m not mistaken. That seriously isn’t much. Consider the amount of time it takes to prepare for the tournament. Of course it’s a game, but it’s also about time dedicated. And marketing IMO. This game has none of it. The HoT marketing is a complete joke.

You are wrong, the prize pool is 50k$, the winner gets only 25k, so 5k per each member. Not worth da effort.

But $5,000 USD can buy a decent gaming computer!

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Velimere.7685:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Top players say alot of things about their class and are obvious (mostly) biased.
5G called Slick Shoes balanced and “felt” Cele Engi didnt need to be nerfed.
Phanta/Walley said Cele Ele were fine and didnt need any adjusting (read; nerf).

There are some other top players calling out stuff but most are biased and will protect their main class and/or attack another class opposing theirs.

Helseth might’ve said mesmer is not optimal but Misha and Frost sure as hell said it is..

The real reason why most ppl also didnt pick mesmer was because of TCG’s split.
Their dreamteam of EU fell apart and so did their dreamteamcomp everyone tried to accomplish.

People in a MMO are like sheep (read: most of the ppl) and will follow not only builds but also comps in from top tier.

TCG’s split instantly shook up the average to above average teams and they got rid of their mesmers aswel (before introducing shoutwarr nevertheless).

I’m certainly not debating the fact having a mesmer back then was rewarding.
It was only rewarding if u had a team build around and put effort into it, like TCG did for 2 years straight (Team Kurse prev).

Teams came together in few weeks cant possibly make the mesmer optimal in their team.

Solution after some weeks: Shoutwarr.

That’s great and all, but this is just your opinion and conjecture versus that of other people. The problem is that said other people are actual top tournament players making their opinion more valuable than yours, not to mention the fact that choice picks in progression from meta to meta agrees with them over you.

You just don’t and seemingly can’t make a convincing argument that actually holds weight. Applying bias to top players with a blanket statement does the opposite of helping your case. Furthermore, applying your own spin on history (read: bias) in follow-up just further detracts from the credibility of your argument.

Ok now I know enough, clearly you believe top players who believe their class is UP or fine while they’re OP.

I’m not biased, Im stating facts here, you can look those up.
I’ve been in PvP before TCG even excisted, please.

Saying mesmer wasnt in the meta is also your opinion, or may I remind you of 55hp, TCG, Kant, and other top teams atleast trying to run mesmer before shoutbow?

Oh I guess they dont count because they’re not helseth, I guess?

History spin? How long are u in pvp? Half a year? Ever carefully overviewed EU scene past 2.5 years since it became ‘esports’?

Atleast watch some old ESL vids and then we’ll talk.

If a class was truly not viable for the meta, top players wouldnt play it obviously.
If they can make it work, others can do too with same effort.

There’s no denying in that.

Or are you stating that helseth admits he’s bad (read; liability to his team) and got carried through the years?

Anyway, we can keep discussing this on and on or agree to disagree.
I know what my view is throughout the years of GW2 pvp and you have yours.

So your entire argument is one big appeal to authority fallacy? Disregarded.

Had to look up what that even means, since I’m not English/American.

Anyway, following Google, you’re saying Im trying to convince ppl what I say is true because someone else states same facts?

Isnt this how the discussion started; how one guy said “this guy said.. (quote from Helseth saying Mesmer sux basically)”?

This discussion started because 2-3 ppl are trying to convince me mesmers werent in meta because Helseth said it was bad.. Irony?

You still don’t seem to understand what it means based on your reply, and I’m not a native English speaker nor American either. Feel free to try again.

Ok, google must be wrong then.

Cheerio

I just googled “appeal to authority” and this is exactly what it told me:

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form: Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S. Person A makes claim C about subject S. Therefore, C is true.

I don’t see how someone can completely misinterpret that as you did…

Cheers!

I’ve had pretty good success with Celestial Signet Necromancer.

FrownyClown.8402:

My biggest concern is that the shouts don’t affect allies so it limits a potentially great support build.

Exactly. The recharge times are fine. This isn’t.