Guild Wars 2

Leo G.4501:

Vicariuz.1605:

My argument is that I will be paying more for the same content as a new player, you’re argument is that I could/should farm a character slot. If I was able to farm to purchase ALL of the same content a new player has access to, then you might have a point. I’m not interested in investing extra time and/or money for the same product. I’m not arguing to get a free character slot, I’m arguing that I am at a disadvantage monetarily to experience the same content a new player will. That is why your argument, not mine, is a straw man.

I’m just going to come right out and tell you, that isn’t a straw man argument. You can keep saying it if you want but it’s meaningless in the context you’re using it. It’s not like you saying I’m using such an argument is somehow giving your point greater strength or something. It’s basically irrelevant.

And I fully understand your perspective, just know that you’re getting hung up, not on the price of the expansion/the net worth of its content, but getting angry that a new player with no in-game value (no inventory expansion, no wardrobe, no gold, no gems, no crafting levels, nothing) is getting character slots that you aren’t getting.

You’re taking a stance of greed (not having something someone else has) while turning a notion of kindness (giving a bonus to a newbie) into a crock of frustration. I can totally see where you’re coming from but is just selfish and greedy and I simply am indifferent about your perspective. I buy cheap accounts and give them away just to play and chat with people, so I don’t really care newbies get some character slots that I already got with the base game. So if someone like me is indifferent about you not getting the same character slots as newbies, do you really think Anet is going to somehow gush with sympathy and change their minds?

I’d honestly just stick with arguing the new worth of the content being released. IMO, it’s too steep.

Wrong, new accounts aren’t getting slots old accounts don’t have, so there’s no reason for me to care about the number of slots, what I care about, that you seem incapable of understanding, is that to play the Revenant (a prominent component of the expansion), I have to spend more money than a new account, or delete something I have already invested in. Why you are unable to grasp this is beyond me. I don’t care what you do with your money, you could buy 12,000 accounts at discount price and SELL them for double and it literally would not matter to me.

Leo G.4501:

Vicariuz.1605:

It is infact a Straw man, I can’t purchase GW2:HoT with gold. I never said anything about any one’s time being more valuable.

Yeah, I still don’t think you know what a straw man argument is or don’t understand the context of your own arguments. The argument is about a perceived owned character slot and how one can obtain one with no cash investment, not about obtaining HoT with gold. As for the value of time, you mentioned time grinding having more value than $10 and I’d say it just depends. Don’t get hung up on me saying “your time isn’t any more valuable” and understand that the underlying point is, you can obtain game perks for free if you want to. A character slot hasn’t suddenly become more valuable or more scare so why can you not obtain one now? The answer is, you can. It’s just your decision to get hung up on not being given something you want just because you’ve jumped to the conclusion that you are owned one.

My argument is that I will be paying more for the same content as a new player, you’re argument is that I could/should farm a character slot. If I was able to farm to purchase ALL of the same content a new player has access to, then you might have a point. I’m not interested in investing extra time and/or money for the same product. I’m not arguing to get a free character slot, I’m arguing that I am at a disadvantage monetarily to experience the same content a new player will. That is why your argument, not mine, is a straw man.

I’d even accept a temporary character slot (for the $50 product), that way I could play the new profession, and if I enjoyed it, pay for a new character slot. Having no choice but to purchase a character slot, or buy the more expensive version of the product, to play the same content is wrong and completely unavoidable for people who are also in the same situation.

As for the PvP build/character thing, it has been addressed more than it should have already, with no input from Arenanet at all, for a very long period of time.

You are missing the argument, and assuming what I want.

Leo G.4501:

Vicariuz.1605:

That’s a great straw man argument with one fatal flaw, the hours invested into grinding still have value, arguably more value than $10.

I think you’re confused at what a strawman argument is. What I suggest are SOLUTIONS to your problem. And they are easy, viable and reasonable solutions. Your time is no more valuable than my time and that is why the whole gem>gold conversion exists, to generalize the value of time so you, the player, can invest what they believe is reasonable to obtain in-game things. You can obtain a Legendary right now and you can do so with time, cash or get out there and craft one yourself.

And as a person who does not spend time in PvE, I would have to spend exponentially more time in PvP (as the rewards there are fractions of what PvE chest farmers make) to earn that gold required for the inflating gem prices. I am well prepared with 6 stacks of lvl up tomes and over 10k skill point tomes to instant 80 ANY new character I choose, don’t assume. It actually does mean that I am missing out, as the new profession is a reason I would be purchasing the product in the first place. Your other arguments or points or w/e they were supposed to be are just misdirection and I won’t entertain.

So you PvP. That’s even less reason to hold onto characters existing in your current slots. Your reward tracks and achievements are account bound as is wardrobe and you can equip whatever amulets you want. So specific rewards aren’t as available for certain content, now you know how everyone else feels! It sucks that I can’t swap my PvE characters’ looks as often as I want because transmutation charges aren’t as available in PvE but they drop like rain in PvP! Welp, I can suck it up and aim for certain rewards or look for other options.

Curious that you accuse me of assuming. While I think the pricepoint of the expansion is too high, you gain no ground trying to project your particular situation on this subject to appeal for sympathy. Focus on why the price is too high, not what YOU miss out on and why YOU feel cheated or whatever.

FYI, I actually bought about 12 $10 accounts back when the game went on sale and still have about 4-5 more that aren’t activated. I use them as offerings to people I chat with online (I’m generous that way) and made a few friends like that. But with the way the offer stands, my extra accounts just plummeted in worth and will likely not function how I want them to anymore due to the expansion…I could go all up in arms about it, but frankly I KNEW it would happen eventually.

So you’ve heard about the expansion and the new profession…you didn’t think you MIGHT need a character slot for it? You didn’t bother thinking that far ahead?

It is infact a Straw man, I can’t purchase GW2:HoT with gold. I never said anything about any one’s time being more valuable.

Regarding your statement about not holding characters for PvP, you couldn’t be farther from the truth, after over 10k matches I’ve learned, it’s VERY important to be able to switch to a different class in the time before the match starts to better suit your comp. I’d argue it’s even more important to have multiple builds held on multiples of the same class because there is no template in this game to save and quickly switch builds, but all of that is besides the point. I’m not looking for sympathy, I’m voicing why I have an issue with pricing of the of expansion and the content those prices provide. Just because you don’t have this same issue doesn’t mean that I should just take the loss.

Careful, they are deleting things.

Getefix.9150:

then you’ll know that your 10k scrolls will give different stuff on release? just checking

Yes, thanks for the concern.

Getefix.9150:

if they have more value than $10, whats the issue? just spend the money on a new slot seeing how its worth it

Because I shouldn’t be required to spend the $10 – $25 extra with a chance I would not even need the character slot. It’s worth is subjective, it’s price is objective.

Getefix.9150:

vica, skill scrolls will be replaced

I’m well aware.

Leo G.4501:

Vicariuz.1605:

Getefix.9150:

you couldnt have one of every class at launch without paying a few gems so why is it so bad that you still cant? its not as though anything has changed

The point is, I’m going to have to pay for an additional character slot that I could potentially not need if I do not enjoy the new profession. There is no way of knowing if I will have wasted that money other than to play it, at a higher cost to a person purchasing the game now. At release, there were enough open slots that I had the opportunity to play all professions without having to pay an additional price. If I wanted to keep 1 of each profession, THEN I would have to pay, I was at least given the option to decide. Forcing me to delete characters I’ve invested hundreds of hours, and money on, is bad practice.

Have you exhausted all your options? The expansion (and the new profession) hasn’t even released yet. You have time NOW to farm gold or sell off some materials or beat down some bosses to get gems and a character slot. You KNEW the game was going to have a new profession but didn’t bother preparing for it? Weren’t you going to purchase some inventory bag slots for the character? Maybe a skin or two? Craft up some equipment for when you get it to 80? Nothing? Well, don’t fear…you can do it NOW.

Also, just because the expansion has a new profession doesn’t mean you instantly are missing out. You can just not play Revenant. I won’t be. Hell, I just want to play a Necromancer but Anet has yet to release a new race for me to roll one as. It was discouraging to find out no new races were going to be released, but I didn’t go accusing Anet of scamming me or being unethical for not including Tengu just because that’s what I want.

Sometimes you just have to roll with unfavorable circumstances and take that along with the good. Not everyone is going to get exactly what they want all the time.

That’s a great straw man argument with one fatal flaw, the hours invested into grinding still have value, arguably more value than $10. And as a person who does not spend time in PvE, I would have to spend exponentially more time in PvP (as the rewards there are fractions of what PvE chest farmers make) to earn that gold required for the inflating gem prices. I am well prepared with 6 stacks of lvl up tomes and over 10k skill point tomes to instant 80 ANY new character I choose, don’t assume. It actually does mean that I am missing out, as the new profession is a reason I would be purchasing the product in the first place. Your other arguments or points or w/e they were supposed to be are just misdirection and I won’t entertain.

Getefix.9150:

so you’re saying that if you pay for a character slot, you dont get any extra content but if you dont pay for the character slot, you lose on content?

Incorrect, I’m saying that in order for me to experience the new content equally with a new player, I will have to spend $10 extra, or delete something I’ve invested hundreds of hours and money on. A new player has access to all professions, and everything else in the game, I will only have access to “everything else in the game” if I pay the same price as that new player.

Getefix.9150:

then dont pay more, dont get the charcater slot and get the same content?

I would have to pay $60 instead of $50 for the same content. Without the character slot, I don’t get to play the same content. There is no way around this.

Getefix.9150:

well you have the ability to create a revenant, you can always buy the deluxe ed. which gives a character slot along with a bunch of other stuff, its really up to you

Yes, I will have to pay more, for the same content.

Getefix.9150:

you couldnt have one of every class at launch without paying a few gems so why is it so bad that you still cant? its not as though anything has changed

The point is, I’m going to have to pay for an additional character slot that I could potentially not need if I do not enjoy the new profession. There is no way of knowing if I will have wasted that money other than to play it, at a higher cost to a person purchasing the game now. At release, there were enough open slots that I had the opportunity to play all professions without having to pay an additional price. If I wanted to keep 1 of each profession, THEN I would have to pay, I was at least given the option to decide. Forcing me to delete characters I’ve invested hundreds of hours, and money on, is bad practice.

Dondarrion.2748:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

papry.8096:

Hey, remember the reddit post with the reimboursement.
Guess what ?
Here their answer to people asking for help.

http://i.imgur.com/T0lpOQO.jpg

“Abandon ship! There’s no-one at the wheel!!”

They can’t even give the same answer across departments now? This is gold. Pure gold. Pay for guild wars, stay for the forums..

Pay attention it’s an answer from a GM going out in parallel to the entire kittenstorm that occurred, and in that time Anet surely were collecting all the feedback and trying to make sense of it all.
Yes, they’re issueing refunds. But this guy also asks for a way to retain progression, and if you get the refund of the core game, I doubt you get to keep your account – or do you?

Anyway – things are being taken out of context – too much for the community’s own good too.

I don’t think it’s necessarily bad for the target market of the more expensive bundles to be asking for, at minimum, the ability to play all of the content they are paying full price for, before any real information about the game has been released, for the same as a new player. For me, the price of the Revenant will be at minimum $60 because I do not have a free slot (all max characters and alts I should not be forced to part with). New players will only have to pay $50 for the same content. I’m being punished for having played the game longer.

TheToxicFox.8710:

If I recall, I remember Anet mentioning that ALL it’s content would ACTUALLY be free for GW2 a couple years back. I’m not sure why people even have to pay for this content to begin with.

While very true and I live for the point this brings up, I think it also brings up another for Anet; why is the company incapable of keeping and following it’s own, apparently unyielding policies, as the track record has shown? Is there something preventing them from communicating with NCSoft, in much the same way they don’t communicate with their consumers?

2015, the year it all changed, the year every single pc gamer feared would come, and it came swiftly.

Alexxander.8306:

Catseye.3164:

You still need the base game to play. That didn’t change. They are just giving it free if you prepurchase.

They didnt mention that on the FAQ they altered. I think a court would see it this way as well, omitting temporal details to deceive a customer is still false advertising afaik.

starts cackling wildly~

Omocha.4931:

evoRobot.4019:

You underestimate the effort it takes to coordinate a games release. There is so much going on, and with E3 that just passed one day ago.. They updated this FAQ as soon as possible and addressed the forums and those who had concerns about already purchasing the game.

People like you won’t let it go and are making so many excuses. If you don’t like the direction of the game / company, then why are you still here? Because your negativity won’t change anything it only makes it worse with this dirty propaganda. You have a choice here, either take it or leave it.

That’s bad decisions example at least, if not the malintent people seem to be thinking about. Not from ANet, neither from the Community Management. But from their greedy higher-ups.

Also, 2 things:

1. The vets who actually supported the game through the first 3 years of GW2, with a management blantantly ignoring major issues over spamming the gemstore with poop are just being laughed in the face with the way HoT was offered yesterday. “Hey! you bought all that random junk already, so keep at it!”

1. Even more important, the company’s silence and trying to shift focus on more bling-blings isn’t supporting any of the current statements made by people like you in their favor. It was an obvious kitten up and they’re now walking on eggs, ’cause another kitten could be fatal.

I believe ANet has good – no! great – potential, but it’s being lashed in some very shaddy actions by a company who doesn’t care much about its customers, just about their potentially fat wallets. I’m sad to see the guys who gave GW1 bow down to them to this extent.

HoT incoming vid was released at the end of the free LWS2. Since then, all the GW2 purchases should be refunded. And the company should’ve already come with that statement. The fact that they’re just manifesting their “desire to fix the problem” is either political bs, or another proof that what ANet would do isn’t actually what it is allowed to do.

So all in all, ninja-modifying the FAQ on the day of the presale launch is a major slap in the face. To their honesty. And a huge stain on their reputation. Never in their 10 years of nurturing the prequel had they displayed such behavior…

When people sound like this I often imagine it’s some random anet dev calling for help on his or her own “secret” account trying to help the community understand why they are going to be mad.

I believe this belongs here and should be seen, this is the compensation regarding the faq change fiasco: Sweet, sweet compensation

T raw.4658:

Can we please stop calling HoT an expansion and call it by it’s true name DLC?

DING DONG PING PONG winner here!

Ty it’s good to see people are still awake here in this world.

Nike.2631:

Random.4691:

I also run my own business…

One probably so big you do your own bookkeeping, I’m guessing. Which would be pretty much an entirely separate universe from a corporation. Treasure your business’s agility, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that’s how an organization turning 8 digits of revenue a quarter does things.

I like the way you condescend to people, I hope you’re consistent and do it in real life as well as on the internet.

serenke.4806:

Vicariuz.1605:

Automaton.4926:

Vicariuz.1605:

Automaton.4926:

Jermoe Morrow.9501:

Will Lucky.8703:

Zappix.7928:

That expansion also didn’t come with new professions.

People are talking about Factions (released 2 slots for Ritualist and Assassin) and Nightfall (2 slots for Paragon and Dervish).

Whilst this is an expansion, it’s releasing a new profession, the basic $50 version should come with at least 1 new slot as part of the package. It would fall in line with their previous way of releasing slots with the introduction of new profession/s. Regardless of if it’s a expansion or standalone.

But those were not expansions, those were Stand Alone campaigns, they came with character slots for people with both. Eye of the North the only expansion didn’t come with slots.

1. In hindsight, they are called stand alone games because Anet later released EotN. They were very much billed as expansions at launch, and EotN required extra explanation in it’s marketing to go on about how it wasn’t stand alone like the other expansions. It was also cheaper than those games. We have to pay essentially the same price as base game at launch to now get 3 zones and no character slots. Which leads to my next point.
2. technically we are buying the base game again in addition to the expansion, which makes the comparison to the original class adding GW1 exspansions even more relevant since you still got some character slots for adding the stand alone expansions to your account. As it stands now, we are buying a 2nd account, and then having anet just throw it in the garbage for us. Giving us a measly 1 charecter slot from am entire account’s worth seems the least they could do.
3. If Anet even briefly glanced at their forums, which we know they do from the red posts, then they know the general assumption was 1 expansion slot for the expansion. The fact they did this without explanation is proof they know they are being kittens. I mean, how much does a new character slot even cost them to provide? They could have just included it in the price and not said anything and we would have been happy, but they had to rub in our faces that they are not giving us even a single free character slot.
4. None of this changes the fact that they lost out on 3 ultimate edition sales just in this short topic, and who knows how many more from the vast majority of players who silently logged off to not return, all because they insist on nickel and dimeing us. I can’t believe I’m they only one who is going to avoid buying gems with money until Anet makes this right.

So go ahead and nitpick about semantics to justify this terrible move on Anet’s part, but if this is the path they will be taking in the future…It has been a good 10 years, but I just don’t know…

I don’t care what people say or think factions and the others were, they are stand alone games which didn’t require you to have the original. There for are not expansions. Simple. You are trying to murky the waters to prove your point.

Objectively wrong. They expanded on the guild wars title as a whole, and are there for expansions. Regardless if they are stand alone or not, they expanded the world of tyria and are GENUINELY expansions.

How is that objectively wrong? When someone says “expansion”, people dont automatically assume it’s a seperate game on it’s own that you can choose to join to another game. that is why we are clearing up the details. Call them an expansion but that doesn’t make you right. You are still wrong. If you are going to throw two very different things under the same name and get angry that Anet doesn’t treat them the same you are an idiot.

You aren’t clearing up ANY details. You’re arguing semantics over campaign or expansion. I’m actually very much so, NOT wrong, because the titles: Guild Wars: Factions and Guild Wars: Nightfall, AND Guild Wars: Eye of the North, all REALLY DID expand the title, which one would assume, labels them as, you guessed it, expansions.

So every item in the GW1 store (costumes, etc) was also an expansion because they expanded the title.

yes. /15chars.

+1’d u make my heart a flitter. /15 chars

Automaton.4926:

Vicariuz.1605:

Automaton.4926:

Jermoe Morrow.9501:

Will Lucky.8703:

Zappix.7928:

That expansion also didn’t come with new professions.

People are talking about Factions (released 2 slots for Ritualist and Assassin) and Nightfall (2 slots for Paragon and Dervish).

Whilst this is an expansion, it’s releasing a new profession, the basic $50 version should come with at least 1 new slot as part of the package. It would fall in line with their previous way of releasing slots with the introduction of new profession/s. Regardless of if it’s a expansion or standalone.

But those were not expansions, those were Stand Alone campaigns, they came with character slots for people with both. Eye of the North the only expansion didn’t come with slots.

1. In hindsight, they are called stand alone games because Anet later released EotN. They were very much billed as expansions at launch, and EotN required extra explanation in it’s marketing to go on about how it wasn’t stand alone like the other expansions. It was also cheaper than those games. We have to pay essentially the same price as base game at launch to now get 3 zones and no character slots. Which leads to my next point.
2. technically we are buying the base game again in addition to the expansion, which makes the comparison to the original class adding GW1 exspansions even more relevant since you still got some character slots for adding the stand alone expansions to your account. As it stands now, we are buying a 2nd account, and then having anet just throw it in the garbage for us. Giving us a measly 1 charecter slot from am entire account’s worth seems the least they could do.
3. If Anet even briefly glanced at their forums, which we know they do from the red posts, then they know the general assumption was 1 expansion slot for the expansion. The fact they did this without explanation is proof they know they are being kittens. I mean, how much does a new character slot even cost them to provide? They could have just included it in the price and not said anything and we would have been happy, but they had to rub in our faces that they are not giving us even a single free character slot.
4. None of this changes the fact that they lost out on 3 ultimate edition sales just in this short topic, and who knows how many more from the vast majority of players who silently logged off to not return, all because they insist on nickel and dimeing us. I can’t believe I’m they only one who is going to avoid buying gems with money until Anet makes this right.

So go ahead and nitpick about semantics to justify this terrible move on Anet’s part, but if this is the path they will be taking in the future…It has been a good 10 years, but I just don’t know…

I don’t care what people say or think factions and the others were, they are stand alone games which didn’t require you to have the original. There for are not expansions. Simple. You are trying to murky the waters to prove your point.

Objectively wrong. They expanded on the guild wars title as a whole, and are there for expansions. Regardless if they are stand alone or not, they expanded the world of tyria and are GENUINELY expansions.

How is that objectively wrong? When someone says “expansion”, people dont automatically assume it’s a seperate game on it’s own that you can choose to join to another game. that is why we are clearing up the details. Call them an expansion but that doesn’t make you right. You are still wrong. If you are going to throw two very different things under the same name and get angry that Anet doesn’t treat them the same you are an idiot.

You aren’t clearing up ANY details. You’re arguing semantics over campaign or expansion. I’m actually very much so, NOT wrong, because the titles: Guild Wars: Factions and Guild Wars: Nightfall, AND Guild Wars: Eye of the North, all REALLY DID expand the title, which one would assume, labels them as, you guessed it, expansions.

Nike.2631:

Vicariuz.1605:

The forums is LITERALLY the place for the population of the game to give their feedback to the company, if the feedback is more often negative than positive, then it’s pretty clear something needs to change or be compromised on.

Your understanding of sampling bias is literally PAINFUL to read. It hurts my soul – you know that ephemeral and indestructible essence? Souls are pretty tough, really. And you’re hurting it. Please stop.

Where would you like people with valid complaints to interact? While it may not be the statistical summit of the player base as a whole, it’s a very VALID and IMPORTANT means of communication between customers and between customer and company. If it wasn’t, THERE WOULDN’T BE A FORUM. Take your straw man arguments and your theology and go sit in the corner.

Brimstar.9036:

Vicariuz.1605:

Midway.2319:

I’m happy. This is why i’m happy.

Played lot’s of mmo’s. 50 dollars or more is about average for expansion prices of other mmo’s. Some with less content.

Second, Anet is correct in saying in the Faq that you’ll need the core to play the xpac.

Third, I know i’m not paying for the core a second time. It’s “FREE” apparently that’s a hard concept for some people.

Fourth, when has Anet ever released sale details ahead of schedule. We knew that the preorder was coming. We just didn’t know what was gonna be part of it. Core game “FREE” with preorder. I look at it as a bonus/sale that i have no use for.

For the people who never played mmo’s before. This is throwing them for a loop. This isn’t a steam game, this isn’t a console game, this is an mmo. The amount of “FREE” content that anet delivers is unrivaled by most other mmo’s.

If you don’t want to buy the xpac. I’ll cya next year when anet puts it on sale for 10 bucks. The nice thing about this game is, you can come and go as you please and not feel left out.

FREE: adverb

without cost or payment.

You literally do not have any information on the amount of content going to be released with HoT as compared with other games, so you are lying.

The FAQ was anet gouging more money and lying.

You literally ARE paying for the core game again.

It is NOT a PRE-ORDER, it is a PRE-PURCHASE, the two things are exceedingly different and you should google them. You are PRE-PURCHASING a game that you have no idea about it’s content or release date.

I sincerely hope this is troll because if so 10/10 and if not I feel really kittenin bad for you and every one who agrees with you.

You feeling bad for someone who is investing their money in a game that they think is worth it is what I find hilarious. It’s their money, who are you to say where they should or shouldn’t use it? I’m satisfied with the free content they’ve given in 3 years, more than exceeding money expectations. I’m more then willing to give another base game worth of 3 years of content, thank you. You must have some complex to degrade people and feel sorry for them about a video game, get some help man. Your internet Warrior Spirit is crying.

No, I don’t feel bad for some one investing money in a game they think is worth it, I feel bad because they are so incredibly misinformed and hoodwinked into believing they are objectively correct. I never said anything about should or should not regarding them purchasing anything. I honestly DON’T CARE what you’re happy with. I’m not degrading any one, I’m simply stating facts, and if you can’t agree with FACT then you are the one with the problem.

Mooncaller.9634:

Jermoe Morrow.9501:

• Saw the in-game thing, and was all excited.
• Saw the ultimate option had a gem discount, and was “:-O want!”
• Saw that standard didn’t come with a character slot when every previous guild wars series expansion that added classes did, and I would also be paying for a base game account I don’t get, and literally logged out of game in disgust.

This. Well, okay, so maybe I didn’t log out.
I was excited, I clicked the buy thing, went through to the page, was really confused about the lack of expansion slot on basic and the inclusion of the core game and ended up in a FAQ / forum quagmire that I’m still sifting through.

I was rather excited, about ready to drop $50, maybe $100, and talk to my wife about which purchase option she wanted. Talk about a momentum killer.

The whole Expansion / Campaign debate regarding GW1 is kind of silly. They were billed as and talked about as expansions, chapters, campaigns, and what have you (at least for Factions and Nightfall) it wasn’t until Eye of the North that expansion / campaign were actually distinguished from one another and only then to explain why there were no new classes, why there were no new missions, why there were no new character slots, and why the price was cheaper than all prior paid for additions.

For GW1 a precedent was set:
1) ~same price as full game = new classes + character slots + new missions + whole new map / standalone game
2) ~significantly reduced cost to full game = no new classes, no new missions, less map, Prophesies required

Clearly HoT does not fit in 1) or 2) perfectly as I outlined above, but for long time players / GW1 players the introduction of a new profession (since they don’t use “class”) without a character slot is unprecedented.
Also, price point and inclusion of core game makes current HoT purchase scheme as available through GuildWars2.com’s own shop mean that HoT is basically only available as a standalone game with different / additional content.

For the new player just joining us the price point includes 5 character slots and 2 bank slots (~5200 gems worth). For existing players the existing price point includes HoT, no core, no character slots, no bank slots.

As an existing customer I’d say I’m a lot less respected under this new marketing scheme than I was as an existing customer back in the GW1 days.

perfection, your wife is a lucky lady.

Nike.2631:

Vicariuz.1605:

you’ve missed the point entirely.

No. The blind outrage has missed the point. The expectation that ArenaNet can see through time with perfect clarity misses the point (and is pretty dang laughable considering they still don’t known when they’re going to release but people act like they had this all planned out from the outset…). That people are ignoring that ArenaNet has expressed a desire to make things right for people who bought the game recently misses the point.

Asking people to focus on the problem and not get wrapped around the axel that the FAQ stayed current with released information is most definitively NOT missing the point.

No, you’ve really missed the point in utter entirety.

D best.3547:

tell them to preorder HoT and then they get the whole game free with the preorder. Anyone who already owns the game however should not preorder HoT.

You mean pre-PURCHASE, not pre-order. sry had to address that because it is indeed a very critical thing.

Automaton.4926:

Jermoe Morrow.9501:

Will Lucky.8703:

Zappix.7928:

That expansion also didn’t come with new professions.

People are talking about Factions (released 2 slots for Ritualist and Assassin) and Nightfall (2 slots for Paragon and Dervish).

Whilst this is an expansion, it’s releasing a new profession, the basic $50 version should come with at least 1 new slot as part of the package. It would fall in line with their previous way of releasing slots with the introduction of new profession/s. Regardless of if it’s a expansion or standalone.

But those were not expansions, those were Stand Alone campaigns, they came with character slots for people with both. Eye of the North the only expansion didn’t come with slots.

1. In hindsight, they are called stand alone games because Anet later released EotN. They were very much billed as expansions at launch, and EotN required extra explanation in it’s marketing to go on about how it wasn’t stand alone like the other expansions. It was also cheaper than those games. We have to pay essentially the same price as base game at launch to now get 3 zones and no character slots. Which leads to my next point.
2. technically we are buying the base game again in addition to the expansion, which makes the comparison to the original class adding GW1 exspansions even more relevant since you still got some character slots for adding the stand alone expansions to your account. As it stands now, we are buying a 2nd account, and then having anet just throw it in the garbage for us. Giving us a measly 1 charecter slot from am entire account’s worth seems the least they could do.
3. If Anet even briefly glanced at their forums, which we know they do from the red posts, then they know the general assumption was 1 expansion slot for the expansion. The fact they did this without explanation is proof they know they are being kittens. I mean, how much does a new character slot even cost them to provide? They could have just included it in the price and not said anything and we would have been happy, but they had to rub in our faces that they are not giving us even a single free character slot.
4. None of this changes the fact that they lost out on 3 ultimate edition sales just in this short topic, and who knows how many more from the vast majority of players who silently logged off to not return, all because they insist on nickel and dimeing us. I can’t believe I’m they only one who is going to avoid buying gems with money until Anet makes this right.

So go ahead and nitpick about semantics to justify this terrible move on Anet’s part, but if this is the path they will be taking in the future…It has been a good 10 years, but I just don’t know…

I don’t care what people say or think factions and the others were, they are stand alone games which didn’t require you to have the original. There for are not expansions. Simple. You are trying to murky the waters to prove your point.

Objectively wrong. They expanded on the guild wars title as a whole, and are there for expansions. Regardless if they are stand alone or not, they expanded the world of tyria and are GENUINELY expansions.

Nike.2631:

Wait… keeping a FAQ current is now evil?

That they decided to make the base game a pack-in does leave them with having to deal with customers who acted based on the old info up to a point (because we don’t know WHEN they decided they’d throw in) but keeping the FAQ current with public information is something to be encouraged, not scorned…

you’ve missed the point entirely.

Midway.2319:

I’m happy. This is why i’m happy.

Played lot’s of mmo’s. 50 dollars or more is about average for expansion prices of other mmo’s. Some with less content.

Second, Anet is correct in saying in the Faq that you’ll need the core to play the xpac.

Third, I know i’m not paying for the core a second time. It’s “FREE” apparently that’s a hard concept for some people.

Fourth, when has Anet ever released sale details ahead of schedule. We knew that the preorder was coming. We just didn’t know what was gonna be part of it. Core game “FREE” with preorder. I look at it as a bonus/sale that i have no use for.

For the people who never played mmo’s before. This is throwing them for a loop. This isn’t a steam game, this isn’t a console game, this is an mmo. The amount of “FREE” content that anet delivers is unrivaled by most other mmo’s.

If you don’t want to buy the xpac. I’ll cya next year when anet puts it on sale for 10 bucks. The nice thing about this game is, you can come and go as you please and not feel left out.

FREE: adverb

without cost or payment.

You literally do not have any information on the amount of content going to be released with HoT as compared with other games, so you are lying.

The FAQ was anet gouging more money and lying.

You literally ARE paying for the core game again.

It is NOT a PRE-ORDER, it is a PRE-PURCHASE, the two things are exceedingly different and you should google them. You are PRE-PURCHASING a game that you have no idea about it’s content or release date.

I sincerely hope this is troll because if so 10/10 and if not I feel really kittenin bad for you and every one who agrees with you.

kenbro.8265:

Kaleban.9834:

kenbro.8265:

Also, the forums here represent a very small minority of the player base… People that are upset with something are more likely to be vocal about it than people that are satisfied

I hate this argument by the way. Yes, forums are a small percentage of the player base. However, statistically speaking, the forums represent within a fairly accurate deviation the overall feelings of the entire player base.

You can usually see this effect on nearly any topic that invites disagreement and argument. Some defend, some accuse, and it usually always shakes out to be the same percentages as that of a total polled population.

So if your argument is “don’t listen to the naysayers, they’re a minority of the player base” then its a non-argument, since the yaysayers represent the same minority.

That was not my argument, I simply stated that the forums represent a small portion of the player base and that people that are unhappy typically are more vocal about it. What this does is sway the opinion of people who otherwise have no opinion at all because they see only one side from those that are the most upset and vocal about it.

Really, it comes down to if you believe the expansion is worth it or not. If you have more important things to spend your money on, I am sure it will be cheaper at some point. Anet is a company first and foremost, and money speaks to them better than words. I personally do not view the expansion to be unreasonable, though I was anticipating a $40 price point, I didn’t even imagine the rage I am seeing on this forum right now

The forums is LITERALLY the place for the population of the game to give their feedback to the company, if the feedback is more often negative than positive, then it’s pretty clear something needs to change or be compromised on. Sry to burst your bubble on that one.

Valmir.4590:

You should tell them to wait for Expansion 2. They’ll be able to buy only it and get the core game and HoT for free.

This

Also, it is NOT a pre-order which you can turn in if you do not like that game for your money back, it is a PRE-PURCHASE which is not refundable.

MAGpie.7962:

We have heard, and loudly and mostly in all caps, the voices of the entitled generation, the folks who believe… actually, I dono what they believe.

Now, here is the voice of the other side, the side that feels that Anet has set a fair price. The side the believes it is not just a novel idea, but ground breaking to release an expansion with the base game (They were not first. Distant Worlds did it as well… but certainly in the MMO side I think). The side that do not feel they are being robbed because someone else is getting something they did not get (Not even sure how you logic that out). The side that supports the game and acknowledged that Anet employees do not work for charity (Gasp!).

The side that will… Buy 2 copies of HoT!

Yes, I will do that, and I will gift one copy to a friend, and bring someone into the game I would not be embarrassed to see talking in map-chat.

Cheers Anet. See you in HoT!

No one cares that you’re ok with sub par overpriced products, and genuinely cannot grasp or even fathom the reason why the current model is being torn apart, and rightfully so. Here’s a little secret for you, from the the entitled generation, if it was marketed CORRECTLY there wouldn’t be a discussion about it.

Shadow.1345:

jihm.2315:

timmyf.1490:

Liewec.2896:

aslong as people are still picking skyhammer, i’m still quitting!

This is why we can’t have nice things. One player can ruin the experience for nine others.

the experience is already ruined when you pick skyhammer or courtyard

Easy fix. Play Ranked.

It’s not always in every ones best interest to play ranked with say their friend whos only played 100 games but would like to have fun in conquest, when you have over 10k games and are playing ranked seriously (not that there really is a reason to do this, but some people do). At least if the garbage troll maps were not in queue and saved for hotjoin and custom arena (like they should be) people could queue in unranked with their lowbie friends and not have to worry about tanking their mmr OR getting stuck on spirit watch, LelHammer, or courtyard (which they wont be seeing in ranked to begin with so what kind of practice could they really provide?)

Angel.6085:

I xfer for WvW. But bringing that up, you’ve succeeded at saying literally nothing.

I understand the outrage here, but you seriously gave them zero time to rectify this at all and you have the nerve to call yourself “loyal.” Go home son.

This should never have even happened. People need to be held accountable AT the time of their ignorance.

Argilla.8340:

And WTS is also just around the corner and changing all of this before it.. just what are you thinking

They are going to use WTS to showcase the changes. I’ve been aware of your crude tactics since release anet.

infantrydiv.1620:

Simply put, you don’t.

this, its been documented that taking this games pvp seriously causes health issues on more than one occasion.

rolf.7469:

Hello every1,

I, for one, thot this was a gr8 vid. Thanks for the post! I wish more ppl in this forum held their play to the highest standard that I saw in the vid, and didnt take themselves so srs bc it is just a video game lol………………………….

add me sometime so we can play as a team and u can teach me

See you all in summoners rift Kappa

edit: ( ? ³?)? ?(????)

ty for the kind Kappas and EleGiggles! I will add you and we can make a montage!!

MadVisions.4529:

i’d say get rid of the camera close ups and 95% of the trollfaces next vid.
gl with your stream.

ty much appreciated! first vid i ever made and just wanted to have some lel with it :]

Elitist.8701:

“Top level skill”

More like top kek

+1 at least some one gets it! ;]

mistsim.2748:

more cheese than I could handle. strange edits, annoying non-sensical zoom-ins, ineffective builds, below average plays.

lmfao lovin it!

Also, who ever liked the video can u please exchange that for a dislike as those are the only ones i accpet, ty in advance.

Washboard abs 19+ inch biceps killer smile with blue eyes and u know ur golden

To add challenging, progressive and fun content, you need people with the skill and passion to create, maintain, and develop those things.

Archon.6480:

What can ANet do to stop people from going afk?

That’s honestly one of the minor issues, as not much can honestly be done. It just exacerbates the many glaring issues that have never been addressed.

Zero mercy for the swine!

I’m not really sure what punk-kitten means x_____X

i support this idea, that way when u get condi bombed u can immediately cry because ur entire health bar changes colors and u know u will now are die.

I made a low quality resolution and editing pvp video, ENJOY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpkHkEdDjVM

Classes showcased with top level skill: Mes, Thief, War
Video 2 (in the works) Classes: Engi, Ranger, Necro

I’ll be making more regardless if you like it or not :^)

Feedback totally unwelcome but let me know builds, music, etc that you would like to see in coming videos.

I’ll be starting to stream a bit as well: http://www.twitch.tv/2_ferraris

I really enjoy all the low skill players trying to refute his points, top kek swine.

I need a Moderator to PM me, I feel my account may be compromised, I can talk to support via phone if necessary, I do not know what information they have on my account and would like to request a change, as there was also an attempted login from China, and this website is a Chinese phishing site.

Saiyan.1704:

Mogar.9216:

I never understood why stealth do not break on a failed attack…

Same reason why our attacks or damage doesn’t break stealth. Stealth would be useless in skirmish situations.

By “useless” do you mean, “Needs to be used intelligently?”

Anton.1769:

Another mainstream video where player logoff / jumps from cliff / afk at Skyhammer. Even now, when SH is separated from ranked, such videos appear. If ppl thought it’s wittily I have bad news for them.

the most unfriendly post ive ever seen ever. I think this was the most informative and appropriate skyhammer guide to date.

You have my vote