They probably should look into the upgrades, weaker(as in walls and gate stats) but faster tier upgrades. Players tend to give a hoot about defending a structure when it’s upgraded, not so much when it’s paper, meh we’ll just re-flip it.
Then again if they upgraded too fast then players will just say f it, no point since it’ll be fully upgraded again soon anyways. Until they attach the more points for upgraded tiers, then you have to break them from being t3.
Keep upgrades use to take about 2-3 hours before the changes, so the current upgrades are close to what they were before. So yeah while we don’t pay for those upgrades anymore, they basically tossed years worth of upgrade cost into the guild hall cost.
while T4 is close to being stuck in a glicko hole of almost 200 points behind and leeching off themselves with no one wanting to transfer there.
And guilds are starting to leave T4. Remember, these were the middle-tier servers before server linking. Three months does seem like a long time.
Yup, Ehmry just lost 2 of it’s biggest guilds, thinking of getting one of my accounts back up into T1/2 again cause it seems like it’s could be a lot of fun, even T2 right now is a really close match with a 9k spread.
(edited by Xenesis.6389)
Yes there won’t be anymore tournaments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ilemt/current_plans_for_wvw_scoring_overhaul/d309hco
It’ll likely take a number of months to complete all the scoring changes, though we plan to release incremental progress in the form of live betas. The timeline also depends on if the community maintains that scoring is a priority, and they don’t vote for us to shift focus to another feature, like World Linking or Reward Tracks.
No additional WvW Tournaments are currently planned. While they were good for the game in the short term, in the long term they’ve proved to be unhealthy. This means we’ll want to repurpose WvW Tournament Tickets, possibly just as a general match reward, so that players can continue to earn the unique WvW weapon skins.
Since it is beta testing they should probably try switching links every 4 weeks or so. The problem is if it’s kept short, players will be unwilling to move and spread out.
Ultimately I’m sure that’s what they would like to see happen, if players are having problems with queues on say BG for a while then maybe they would be willing to move servers(fat chance), but they would have to move to the lower population servers to jump to a server in the higher matchups.
As it is, it looks like T1/2 will have a rotation and having fun with that, T3 has a good chance to roll up into T2, while T4 is close to being stuck in a glicko hole of almost 200 points behind and leeching off themselves with no one wanting to transfer there.
On further thought they could just add the desert to red borderlands and leave alpine on blue and green. Should be easier for red team to hold desert rather than alpine, give them a little help in matchups.
If you don’t like the time slice scoring and prefer another method then don’t vote for it, vote for one of the other points options. Get your guild and server mates to vote now or forever hold your peace.
1. Modify objective scoring to be relative to upgrade level
(Medium time frame)
-T3 upgraded structures will have a higher PPT.
2. Rebalance scoring for actions that are not included in Points-Per-Tick
(Small time frame)
-Increased points for PPK and killing yaks and sentries.
3. Implement scoring for objective capture
(Small time frame)
-Points for object captures, more points for a higher tier structure.
4. Adjust scoring to be relative to current activity and population
(Large time frame)
-The skirmish time slice scoring and possibly the controversial action level change.
5. Provide features that increase a team’s ability to recover from large point disparities
(Medium time frame)
-Last Stand catch up mechanic.
6. Change WvW Tick timer to 5 Minutes
(Small time frame)
-More ticks, more points.
7. No preference
-You like chocolate frosted vanilla cake with colored sprinkles.
P.S Am I the only one who has a hard time noticing new sticky links on top of the forums? Maybe new red links should start with a sticky and then later placed up there after it’s been a few days, I’m sure it would get enough bumps to stay up. I just tend to ignore that small top part for some reason lol.
If you don’t like the time slice scoring and prefer another method then don’t vote for it, vote for one of the other points options. Get your guild and server mates to vote now or forever hold your peace.
1. Modify objective scoring to be relative to upgrade level
(Medium time frame)
-T3 upgraded structures will have a higher PPT.
2. Rebalance scoring for actions that are not included in Points-Per-Tick
(Small time frame)
-Increased points for PPK and killing yaks and sentries.
3. Implement scoring for objective capture
(Small time frame)
-Points for object captures, more points for a higher tier structure.
4. Adjust scoring to be relative to current activity and population
(Large time frame)
-The skirmish time slice scoring and possibly the controversial action level change.
5. Provide features that increase a team’s ability to recover from large point disparities
(Medium time frame)
-Last Stand catch up mechanic.
6. Change WvW Tick timer to 5 Minutes
(Small time frame)
-More ticks, more points.
7. No preference
-You like chocolate frosted vanilla cake with colored sprinkles.
(edited by Xenesis.6389)
Do you have “Effect LOD” checked?
Even if that’s checked it should still show the rings as before the changes.
It was mentioned before in one of the other dbl threads, but yes it’s a decent idea to try and make the north towers useful in hitting garrison. Obviously a T2 upgraded tower would be needed to use it since those towers can be supplied fairly quickly. It’ll be like the statuary cannon in eotm, but it should be made destructible.
Also this idea isn’t any different than setting up trebs in north towers in alpine, quit your kitten bellaching about pve, this isn’t a super cannon in the middle of the map powered up by dino crap that blasts all doors down for half life kitten .
That site has been around forever and has never been up to date or accurate. It keeps great tracking of the current match ups but not prior. Just look at History and Medals. Some servers weren’t even listed and you mean to tell me HOD and EB only have (3) medals between them? Dragonbrand and SOR have NEVER won a match? This is not what I was talking about. It has to be controlled and kept up to date by Anet so it’s accurate.
The list has probably been screwed up since the links, but it kept track of T1 medals (1st, 2nd, 3rd place out of 24 servers) before since that was the top tier that one everyone was “suppose” to fight for, before people settled into their own tiers and didn’t care about the blob tier.
Anet only kept track of medals counts during tournaments. In any case it’s all pointless. Yay my server won a T8 match, whoopdeedoo.
P.S
Wvw was majorly dying since HoT, it was dying before just not majorly XD Servers helped revitalize wvw. Would there have been enough returning players with just the announcement of reward tracks? maybe, maybe not, we won’t know for sure now, but I personally don’t think so.
Edit: Technically tiers don’t exist, there’s a rank to servers from 1-24 which comes down to population and coverage. The rankings play a part in who gets matched up for the week, usually you play against servers around your ranks who have closer populations to yours.
Also BG is going to win every week, no point in any tournaments or contest.
(edited by Xenesis.6389)
They have try the EBG concept on DBL and it was a big fail (1 WP / team on each map).
The map itself was a big fail.EBG have more people because you have more fight.
Why you have fight ? Because the map is designed for that ! Tower can hit keep, SM can be hit by tower, etc… You are always under pression from somewhere.Structures are close to each other, this mean you are fast in fight.
Exact opposite of DBL where there was no connection at all between the structures… Useless tower (really useless). We have to wait the come back of the WP in the keep at T3 to begin to see some activity on the map. To finally have keep with a little tactical value.
On my side I hate the 3 side map and I want to play at “home”.
But if you want more activity on a map you need more connection between structures… Each thing you take should help you or be under pressure from something else. This mean you are never completly secure and have to always fight.
No, it was designed as a home bl map and they tried a new concept in trying to force players into chokes on the outer areas of the map, the entire map was designed with that one concept in mind. They placed the waypoints in the south towers at first so attackers would have easier access to the middle part of the map which was more open and easier access to every other area of the map, then you could waypoint and run back to fights quicker. Especially for the middle cannon event since garrison has a waypoint close by.
Then later they moved the waypoint to the side keeps to give them more value because who the hell wants to fight over a keep when it doesn’t even give a permanent waypoint? but defenders still didn’t get access to one so why bother with the keep. Finally they went back to the old system of whomever upgrades it to T3 gets the waypoint. Now the problem is none of the towers have any value.
The advantage of a home map is that it takes the attackers longer to reach your north area for your towers and garrison so you have time to prepare your defense, if you don’t bother with defense then those towers could be taken and turned against you.
EBG is an equal opportunity map, you have equal amount of structures to hold, every side has 2 structures they can treb smc from, smc can also treb all outer structures on every side. Travel is not a pain in the kitten, and yet there is opportunity to ambush opponents. Whether you are a roamer or a blobber you can find those fights in EBG easily. SMC usually draws the biggest fights out as well, there’s usually something to do around it. It’s still the one middle area idea that has worked.
Now you guys are starting to suggest stuff to over complicate the system. I just want to jump into wvw, take a tower or two, kill a player or 40, get some rewards and have fun during that time.
I don’t need to worry about if I’m defending a tower by myself with an ac and a group comes by do I shoot them or not because I get no loot or less loot or whatever, or do I just leave and let them cap the tower because it’ll be worth no points to them. Need to go work on my secret participation list anyways so I don’t get screwed out of rewards at the end of the match.
Won’t bother with that guy running by with an outnumbered buff, pointless.
I see our zerg is parked outside a keep..
Sup commander why you standing around?
We want to take this T3 keep and break the waypoint, but then the defenders will get extra points and loot if we attack it, we don’t want to give anyone precursors…
It doesn’t have ppt to it anymore anyways why bother..
We’ll stand out here in the open and wait for someone to come by..
Hey someone pull out the aviator box so we can rp being planes in the meantime!
K.I.S.S
Some of these things that don’t exist in spvp shouldn’t be in wvw either, if they’re considered too op for spvp why should they exist in wvw? which is also a pvp area.
For the timeslice. The Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier is based on timezone. The ‘primetime’ zone. The other 18 hours are the redheaded stepchild.
Which they will only think about implementing if time slicing does not do the job of mitigating off hour scoring. People need to relax and stop talking about it like it’s going in with the first changes to scoring.
Wow…seems like large-scale fights these days don’t last that long…usually over in under a minute. What changed? (I’ve only been around since just before HoT)
Damage boost in the last year from the june 23 patch when traits were revamped, plus the elite specs in HoT, more conditions and damage boost to those. Only 1 person rallies on a kill rather than 5, can’t res a fully dead unless out of combat.
Hope you all realize that the controversial change would only happen if time slicing did not help much in the first place, and even then they would do a poll to see if the players would really want that change implemented.
While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued.
If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.
Personally I don’t think bonus victory points for prime time is needed, nor do I like the idea of random action hours. Not every server has the same coverage even in NA prime, so you would just do the reverse of what’s happening and hand over points to the biggest coverage servers but in their prime instead of their off hours, which doesn’t fix the problem.
BG I’m sure is a server that would be able to cover all 6 hours of prime scoring and even the random action hours, a server like Ehmry or NSP or DH not so much, even with their links. The idea here is suppose to be about preventing runaway scores so that servers have a better chance at each other, and then leading to stuff like the tournaments and better rewards. That’s not going to happen when you take the points scoring extreme from one side to the other.
Finally many call for population balance but never offer the solutions. What do you all want them to do? they lock the full servers already, hell 12 of the 24 are locked right now. Players also created this mess by stacking when they had the choice not to do so. Want to help them fix the mess? move your guilds down a tier or two, or wait in 60 man queues every night, your choice.
(edited by Xenesis.6389)
I know but this is still a wvw guild, so why not?
In that case might as well post it in the elementalist, guardian, mesmer, revenant, and warrior class forums that you’re looking to recruit.
Pretty sure I’ve seen this somewhere on the forums, but thought I would mention it again here…
I’m still unable to access the Magus Falls Reward track after finishing the Tangled Depths Reward track. Anyone else stuck there?
less tomes of knowledge please. ty
There’s no more regular exp in wvw, so new characters will still need the tomes to help level in there.
Funny how people call abl boring and old and a reason to why wvw was dying, yet ebg is just as old, and it still carries a queue every night.
Honest question, why do you queue EBG. To me its the equal footing. What’s your number one? This will help ANet when designing new maps.
Depends on what time I’m logging on and who’s on with me. I queue it if I’m going solo and looking to get into everything I want in wvw quickly, roam, duel, zerg, defend. If I have a group of friends on we usually go havoc on a bl just to mess with the enemy and get some small fights out of it. But before HoT a lot of our time was spent on alpine bl doing all of the above.
I’ve stated before I think they should have designed every map with the ebg concept, that way today we could have had 4 different maps in wvw and everyone would have the maps they preferred (although no one really wants eotm as a main wvw map). Future maps need to be of the ebg design, fortunately you can have multiples of those running without worry about being fair to a home side so it can be run along side ebg.
P.S What they should have done with Desert bl is made it in the ebg format and then run it along with alpine home bls and ebg. Ebg has always been the most popular map so I dunno why they didn’t think to make another one, although being what the population spread was before it would have been pointless to add a 5th map for other than T1/2, different story with the links now though.
(edited by Xenesis.6389)
Skrimish:
I just have doubts about the practice. What happens if I realize after 15-30 min. that my server will not win the skrimish? Will I now try to defend the last t3 keep with all possibilities or will I logout. From my experience I would say, more people will logout than in the current system.
That’s kinda ridiculous.
With the current system when you see your server is losing from saturday on, do you log out and not bother to log back in till next friday? or do you play for the fun of playing wvw even if you have no chance of making a come back?
Even if you’re losing a time slice, your actions will make a difference in the next time slice, so go out and keep taking and papering enemy structures, or prepare and defend your own. Or log out and let the enemy keep their T3 structures which may award more points and make it harder for your side to catch up in points, that’s up to you.
Probably because many of us realized WvW was dying long before HoT released. Alpine was part of the problem, not the solution.
Give it another week or so and people will get bored again with alpine.
Funny how people call abl boring and old and a reason to why wvw was dying, yet ebg is just as old, and it still carries a queue every night.
The game play was getting stale, the matchups were getting stale, ppt was getting stale, combat was getting kittened over with certain things like stability changes, no dev dicussion was getting stale. WvW needed new maps, but alpine is minor compared to the overall wvw picture of things as to why it’s dying.
Can you guys imagine if this current wvw team was working on wvw for the past 3 years?
Anyways… Time slice scoring! YAY!
Time Slice Scoring.
I’m in favor of this method of scoring to keep it fair for everyone in every time zone. Not sure if maybe 2 hours is a bit short as I was always thinking of maybe 6 hour slices, but the 2 hour window will definitely make everyone’s playing time worthwhile and matter to scoring.
Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier.
I’m not in favor of this and don’t really think it is needed with the time slices scoring in place, which that alone should be able to mitigate runaway overall scores. Not even the NA populations on every server have the same length of prime time so again this might favor servers like BG who have bigger and better coverage than everyone else. If people really feel the need to add this in then I would only look at 2x multiplier during prime hours, and 1x for the rest of the time. But again I don’t feel it’s needed.
Last Stand
I agree with this mechanic to keep matches interesting at the end of the week.
Reduced the Score Tick Timer from 15 minutes to 5 minutes.
I’m in agreement with this, it would help smaller populations and quick strike captures with small teams would be much more meaningful.
Upgraded Objectives Score Higher.
I don’t really agree with this point as higher population servers have a better chance to hold their structures over lower population servers. This could help create runaway scores in a time slice.
Points for Capture.
I agree in giving higher points for capturing an upgraded structure. I know this point and the one above go hand in hand, but my thinking is higher population servers already have the advantage, and there’s no point in handing over bonus points to them every 5 mins. But higher points for something that would normally take 3 hours to upgrade? that would be ok, they would basically only get bonus points once in that time slice for it.
Points for Kill.
I agree with these changes.
Thank you Tyler B and the Wvw team!
Interesting concept, any idea that does not involve actually penalizing points is a good one to start with.
I always thought the outnumbered buff should provide bonus points for the team with the lower numbers. Mind you that would only account for 1 side and individual zones, while your concept is for the 2 lower server numbers in all maps entirely.
You would also have to count participation for every player for the 15 minute periods, maybe it would only need to count 1 event and flag the person as participated in that period rather than having to calculate multiple events or points.
This could run into trouble with the bigger populations that maybe run more non ppt groups in regards to population. There’s a lot more scenarios that need to be run to see if the idea holds up.
Handing out more ppk for the outnumbered is also ok in my book.
If they went with 7 maps they’ll have to link T3 and T4 together, sure as kitten don’t get 60 players queues for maps even on reset in T4. Also means BG needs to destack.
Double team… in a three sided matchup…. lol when are people going to learn.
Also funny that people are blaming BG on a double team on TC, so it’s ok that DB is hitting TC instead of BG?
I think players know now that BG is out of hibernation and ready to fight, maybe the next matchup servers will take a hint and hit BG instead of each other so much.
you know what I find funny, when we are losing, and getting crushed during OCX/SEA hours, it isn’t the Alliance who moved from YB leading us.
It is our old loyal TC guilds who remained who is leading us. HIRE led by Inori Cross and White Lotus led by Kinbear.
They are leading us in our darkest hours.
What’s even funnier is you’re getting hit harder because of that alliance, and they’re not even helping you in your darkest hours.
Inner water gate garrison has been that way from day one, whether it was intentional or not who knows, I don’t think I have ever heard a dev speak about it. The other two keeps do not have any weak inner gates.
Green keep water gates on ebg also do not upgrade, and also do not get affected with the fortified gates buff so you can keep tapping them to contest the waypoint. Whether that’s intentional or not I also do not know, but maybe it’s something to bring to the current devs attention to see what they think.
There’s a couple things you need to get down first.
1. Pick the class and spec you want to play, you said mesmer is preferred, they do well in almost every situation. Classes do have defined roles in groups, guardians are not useless they are one of the more needed classes, but you will most likely need a guild in order to get that to shine, as pug zergs are usually bring whatever you want. Check http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki to get started on popular specs and then build from there.
2. Find the role you want to play in wvw. By the sounds of it you don’t want to play in a blob or a zerg, you may want to do small group which go from scouter/defender, roamer, to duo, to havoc groups. You can usually find more of those in the borderlands.
3. Find your server Teamspeak and join them, get verified in map chat and hang out in the public sections and hear what’s going on with your server. Join your friends guild and run with them for a bit and see if you like it, the hardest step is joining a new guild and trying to get involved, but with your friend already there it should be easier.
If you just want to do wvw for achievements then you will need to run with a zerg to capture objectives which make up a lot of achievements in there. Eotm is probably faster this way as it’s mostly a k-train running around the map taking stuff with the odd fight in between.
Finally, just relax, don’t take wvw too seriously, Running with a zerg is not that bad, you get to capture stuff, you get to kill groups, you get to learn the map in safety. Run through your own structures and check out the siege placements, look at what can be used to counter enemies, wvw is more than just running around in a zerg hitting 1.
Attacking and defending structures, sieging and countersieging, roamers cutting off reinforcements, scouts calling for enemy positions so ambushes can happen, or defenses can be mounted, flipping camps so supply can keep flowing to upgrade structures or even killing enemy yaks to stall their upgrades, tapping enemy structures to block their waypoint, on and on. Even zerg guilds do organized guild vs guild fights if you want to get more serious about fighting.
There are many things to do in wvw, you just have to find the ones you want to do. My current guild started from friends who wandered into wvw during a tournament, they liked scouting and defending, which led to the creation of a guild for just that, it evolved into more offense with havoc in enemy lands to take their t3 structures with a handful of people. Before that I got invited into a big zerg guild with a popular pug commander who was randomly inviting players, which led me to finding my current friends and guild. Contact has to start somewhere, you just need to get into wvw and give it a chance to happen.
(edited by Xenesis.6389)
They can’t have 4 of the current maps for a matchup, they have 2 maps suited for home borderland and 2 which are neutral, but there’s 3 teams playing, so one team will not have a “home field advantage”.
Unless you say screw it to green and maybe you can work it out like this.
Red bl = desert bl, some people like it here.
Blue bl = alpine bl, some more people like it here.
Green bl = eotm, ktrain central.
EBG.But it isn’t exactly fair, the reason why they have the home bl the same is so that all teams have equal access and advantages to the map. Not that it’s fair anyways since green usually has better population or coverage anyways.
In this concept there is no more home borderland, there are just 4 battlefields. Your home becomes your third on each map where you move forward from.
That’s nice, but doesn’t change the fact that two of the maps are designed as home borderland maps, where the home team has the advantage with the north half of the map.
If they were all designed with ebg concept in mind where everyone had equal amount of structures to hold, and equal travel times through the map then yeah we can go with the 4 maps idea, I’d like nothing better and I have already mentioned it in the past.
In the meantime if you want to shoehorn the idea, then my thoughts on who owns what bl are up above. Red will take desert because less people will go there, easier to hold north towers cause they’re only useful for ppt. Roamers won’t spend time there either. Blue will get alpine since that’s a little more popular, roamers enjoy it so more action, more things will flip. Green will get eotm easiest to flip stuff with no upgrades, make green with the higher population and better coverage work for their points.
Trebbing Towers from Keeps.(this is also an issue in EB).
-Keeps should not be able to treb Towers.. However, Towers should be able to treb Keeps.
It is not an “issue”.
The original wvw maps were intentionally designed that way, they’ve been that way since day one. Taking an objective gives you an advantage to continue attacking your enemy, it’s not just for “ppt”. Owning stonemist castle is one of the hardest keeps to hold since you can treb it from all the surrounding structures, but it also gives you an advantage in being able to treb all the structures near it from one place.
Not even going to bother with the rest of the post.
They can’t have 4 of the current maps for a matchup, they have 2 maps suited for home borderland and 2 which are neutral, but there’s 3 teams playing, so one team will not have a “home field advantage”.
Unless you say screw it to green and maybe you can work it out like this.
Red bl = desert bl, some people like it here.
Blue bl = alpine bl, some more people like it here.
Green bl = eotm, ktrain central.
EBG.
But it isn’t exactly fair, the reason why they have the home bl the same is so that all teams have equal access and advantages to the map. Not that it’s fair anyways since green usually has better population or coverage anyways.
Because it is rather poor implementation to “rotate” them. All maps should just be active at once, so nobody has to be “benched” while they wait for their favorite map to come back into rotation…
Yeah well many also took a break and benched themselves from wvw when desert came in, and waited 6 months before the rotation finally happened.
They don’t have the systems in place to auto rotate them, and it sounds like it’s a lot of work to even do them manually, so if anything it might come down to rotations every quarterly update along with the server links.
If you want the maps to exist at the same time then there needs to be a third borderland which they do not have. It takes them a year or more to create a brand new wvw map, if they ever bother to make another one.
So either chillax and get use to a rotation, enjoy the current map, or don’t, that’s up to you.
Are you guys going to complain every time they switch the maps? Because there’s going to be a rotation, get over it and enjoy wvw for a change? Biggest complaint I see about alpine is “it’s boring” while dbl still gets complaints about the many problems about the map.
Sorry Shinon but I don’t agree with some of your points.
What I do not like about the Alpine Borderlands:
- The Northern Camp, just because the dolyaks have to travel way too far and the routes feel boring
You do realize that the alpine north camp dolyaks only send one dolyak per side because it’s the same one that goes to the north towers and garrison, it makes them more precious to guard to get in to garrison. There’s nothing particularly fun about walking yaks on dbl from north camp either. The dbl is just more detailed, I guess maybe if they put something like a forest between north camp and the north towers it wouldn’t be as boring?
- The deadly cliffs, that kill me more often than the cliffs on the Desert Borderlands,
as the landscape is so width and empty and boring
Yeah let’s not exaggerate ok? alpine cliffs have “safe” areas for you to drop down from with mid cliffs in the well traveled areas between the towers and garrison, yes there’s even mid cliffs to the valley under hills. There are a hell of a lot more cliffs on the dbl and a lot less safe areas to drop, even dropping from a tower wall to the ground can kill you. In a lot of areas for dbl you are forced to stick to the pathways, that was the point of the map, to force you into the chokes.
- Chasing a mesmer inside bay
This is where stealth traps need to be used. Also guild upgrade watchtower.
What I like about the Desert Borderlands:
- Towers have two entrances and Keeps have many routes to the inner. This makes it much harder to cut off the supply for attackers and prevent any defence.
This is a good thing, but the only reason they had to include two entrances is because the towers are twice as big as the old ones. Plus they had barriers setup somewhere between the two entrances before so you had to give better access coming from either side, now the barriers are gone.
- Cannons and Oil are build more strategical, making them valuable defences. For towers there are even two of them, instead of only one each
The cannons and oils are built on narrow walkways around the gates, it makes it just as dangerous for the defender to be there.
- Keeps need at least two series of catapults to be opened. Only exception I know is the north of the Rampart. A small advantage for the Home Team
There’s good and bad in that.
In order to accomplish that they had to increase the keep size which a lot of players didn’t like, as it’s more difficult to scout and siege up, but I suppose that’s where the watchtower comes in useful again. There’s also a lot less walls for you to knock down on the dbl keeps, while on the abl keeps you can pretty much knock down every wall. The abl map puts more pressure on defenders to build and maintain siege in the vulnerable spots, on the dbl no one cared to.
- No “save” spots to build catapults or trebuchets, that are very hard to destroy, e.g. in keeps or towers or on unreachable cliffs
Which took away any value to the towers on dbl, in the beginning the only value to the south towers was the waypoint and access to the middle area which was eventually changed. The north towers have no value other than ppt. On abl you have to be active and upgrade and siege your towers or risk losing it and then risk your keep getting hit from them. Even then 90% of the time you can counter long range siege in the towers while not even having to take the tower.
The one thing that’s great about the abl that most people don’t realize is the amount of places where you can place siege to hit some thing, and the counter siege you can use to get rid of it. There are obviously some bugged out areas that players eventually found out about, such as citadel siege on the east side to hit net, but I chalked that up to a home field advantage.
- Every keep, tower and monument is different, so some strategies work better for some objects than others
Not really. You get lords with different set of skills, but it comes down to just zerging them anyways. There isn’t anything different to dropping a cata or ram depending on the weaker of the gate or wall. Taking the alters doesn’t affect how you take a keep, gives slight advantage to movement for the defender, run over lava use the portals, don’t take dmg from falling etc. People don’t even bother with golems on that map.
- Many possibilities to attack and defend, also some strategies are more common
Again the keeps have a lot less walls to break because they designed the map for chokes. Players don’t use golems because it’s a pain to move them now, there’s a lot less attack strategies to use. They also don’t bother to siege up because structures are so big no one is going to bother refreshing siege in there, siege only goes down when you know exactly where the enemy is coming from.
- Larger structures with more room to fight
Air keep is filled with narrow hallways, stairs, there’s barely anywhere to have open fights, fire keep has the mid courtyard and the lords for a large area to fight, larger structures didn’t mean more room to fight, the towers are about the only things with a large space to fight.
- Walls feel better for defenders
That they do, until you accidentally fall off one….
- The Oasis Event. I enjoyed some of the most exciting fights there
A lagged out area where people didn’t bother fighting each other over dinos? Still doesn’t compare to an old school keep lord room fight.
- The landscape is more exciting, so I don’t realize any longer ways, if there are any
It certainly does look more updated than alpine map, like comparing HoT maps to the old school maps, there’s just so much more detail. That fog area around garrison certainly didn’t feel more exciting to me though.
- High flexibility. When you can’t take the fight for one object, there are always enough options nearby. So your attacks can become less predictable
Not sure what you mean by that, if you can’t take a tower go take the nearest shrine and your enemies become confused by your tactics?
What I don’t like about the Desert Borderlands:
- Feels too empty, as many players still run long paths and don’t know for some nice shortcuts. Therefore the map obviously feels tedious
It was empty because a lot less players were there, it felt like a bigger map, it felt like a lot more traveling was involved when it probably wasn’t, that’s what happens when you confine players to travel the safe routes. It wasn’t great for roaming either when sentries could mark you unless you take the really long way around, while on abl you have open space to avoid it.
Both maps have their advantages and disadvantages, both maps will be around and rotated every once in a while, people need to get over it and enjoy the revived wvw population.
Furthermore, as pointed out by yourself, you have also highlighted basically the COVERAGE problem in WvW. Simply merging ALL the servers as they are now, even though it may change in 3 months time more or less, is not a good way to go about this. Not to mention that the change itself simply causes another sort of instability to servers on all levels.
What I would argue in this situation is simply to do this change gradually, instead of a sudden merge, with more communication and awareness of the population, culture and community of each WvW server. Whilst I am also eager for vast improvements in WvW, I don’t think this is the way to go…as already it has impacted our lives (my gf and I), many in my server, and many people who’s posted against this.
I actually see the server links as the temporary solution to increase population for all servers, obviously good and bad affects of this. It’s the easiest thing for them to try out rather than outright merging servers, which I’m sure a hell of a lot more people would have a problem with. For now they had to start somewhere, simply folding servers into links near each other combined was the best area for them to start. If they have access to actual population detail for all time zones maybe they can take that finer detail into consideration of future links and provide better coverage for all servers.
The long term change I can see them going to is eotm megaserver into 3 alliances type deal, but I expect that would require a lot of work to change the entire wvw section for. Let’s face it, wvw has been slowly dying since year 1, it died a lot faster after HoT launched, it needed a kick for the revival to start, and the links did it.
Even then coverage will always be a problem, eotm still has it’s fair share of it, there is no hard cap on the minimum amount of players that show up every minute of the day for a competitive game mode. Not like sports teams which show up every time with even roster to compete with each other. So it’s going to be uneven.
Anet has no control over where anyone plays unless players really want to them to start hard filtering players onto certain servers. The only other thing they can control is the scoring system, they can make it better for lower population or odd coverage servers to continue to compete in a matchup beyond the first night, ideas such as bonus points on outnumbered maps, or catchup point mechanics on the last day.
Also I’d like to mention I play on Ehmry Bay, I was away from the game for the last 4 months until the linking brought me back. I have noticed that Ehmry has been losing players since HoT came out, we also had quite a lot of guilds that came and left in the last year. We still have our pillar guilds around, and a few regulars, but since the linking we’ve now also lost our name in the shuffle, and I feel a little lost being surrounded with many more HoD players carrying the HoD tag on my head. I have had fun for the most part, but I do feel that sense of loss from the linking, but just have to try and make do and get the best out of the situation.
Lets cata double walls all day long map
Better than cata’ing a pointless north tower.
Also hilarious you guys are condemning alpine when it practically made it back into the game on a tuesday with no actual release date released beforehand, it’s the middle of EU prime right now where most servers NA don’t have a lot on so yeah they’re in ebg for fights. Oh yeah it’s a failure lets pack it up boys and bring back the desert.
Don’t worry Desert will be back, they’re not scrapping it, even made fixes to it as it rotated out lol.
Because right now they don’t have 3 different borderland maps, they have 2 borderland and 2 ebg type maps. What they should have done from the beginning is made all maps like the ebg type, then at this point we could have had 4 different maps to play in both matchups and eotm.
P.S They probably should at least rotate the bl maps manually with the quarterly linking changes until they can figure out the automation system for it.
Seen a couple of these threads now, just a couple opinions of my own. Everyone deserves to play the game they want the way they want, but people have to keep some things in mind.
The wvw section is meant to be server vs server vs server. It was meant to have maps populated, to only see 3-5 people on those huge maps is kind of a waste, in the early days of wvw queues lasted more than just reset night. There is room for all types of play styles, defender, roamer, havoc, zerg, blob, but it’s up to the player to make it happen.
Right now in T4 you mostly will find a queue at reset for a few hours, that is perfectly acceptable to me because it’s the start of a new match and players are excited and come out for it. They know they will get good fights and enjoy themselves, but it’s pretty much always been like that for reset night. The rest of the week the queues exist in ebg but not a long wait time, sometimes on a bl in prime, really T4 is not that different from the mid tiers before HoT. Once Alpine returns it should also help make the roaming experience better.
The server linking is really no different than a bunch of guilds moving onto your server, which many servers have experienced at this point. There’s nothing you can do about it other than greet them, be nice, and try to work together, in a few months they may even leave, in this case they will for sure when they unlink in 3 months.
As for the linking of servers that have big NA numbers, it can’t really be helped, since there really isn’t a lot of sea/ocx player around other than the high tiers, a lot of them had stacked on SoS and JQ. It’s going to be difficult to balance most tiers around those players in the mid to lower tiers, since mostly north americans play on the north american servers, probably won’t matter much who’s linked as most of NA prime zones will now be stacked anyways.
Yes every server has their own identity which they have built through in game and out with forums and teamspeak, the server name is part of that identity sure, but at the end of the day that community in and out of the game is what it’s all about. All Anet did was provide a place to build that community and gave you a name for it. If that server/community really wants to stick together you can even call a certain map or two out to be the one to hang out for the matchup. It’s really up to the players to keep that identity going before and after the linking.
It sucks that T8 got thrown into T1 I’m sure, since players stayed in T8 for a reason. Maybe they should unlink T1 and T8 and leave those two as single server matchups, if players want to zerg all day long move to T1 like they already had been, if they just want smaller fights and less hectic action and queues, move to T8.
(edited by Xenesis.6389)
Hrm posted about the concept about the 3 eotm sides under order names instead of green/blue/red a while back.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/To-Those-Who-Think-They-Want-A-Megaserver/first#post5844718
What you seem to be describing is similar to what Crowfall has planned I think, you pick a campaign which you can have different main objectives to it, then you’re in there until it ends for however long it’s set. Which could be interesting, but then pushing more players out into different directions with different campaigns might not be a good idea.
Recruitment has become difficult because of the megaserver, and Anet unwilling to advertise for wvw in quite a while. The last big event they had to advertise was the tournament, yet spvp has their bonus buff up plus the side event notice every other week. The beta stuff for wvw is now being advertised so maybe that helped bring some new players in, now it’s up the wvw players to be nice, recruit, and train them properly, instead of being the rude aggressive grumpy idiots that we usually are.
Nownow, let’s not get too excited. It can still be improved. I have lost SEVERAL bags already this week when I die and bags appear next to my cold dead body.
You were never able to loot anything while dead before, so I don’t see a problem with this. Why should you be able to loot bags off players who died after you did? Respawn right away if you’re that worried about keeping bags.
I just logged in to see Yaks Bend losing by a mile when the opposite used to be true. Are they spending a lot of time reminiscing about the good ole days (about a week ago) and not much time trying to actually win now that fighting is required?
Sladi [TW]
Someone didn’t get the memo lol
Blackgate is called Hibergate for a reason. Only major shift of population that came from the “leak” is players moving to TC.
Meh you don’t need to link servers, just link scores lol.
Would be nice to try this idea out even for just a week just to see how it goes.
HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF THEY MADE ALL DAY TIME POINTS MADE BY ANYONE WORTH A QUARTER TO WHAT THE NIGHT TIME POPULATION DOES?
I had to take my glasses off to read this….
Two words:
Portal Storms
In an old MMO, Asheron’s Call, when too many people gathered closely, a Portal Storm would teleport some a short distance away. This was part of their design to keep the game running smoothly.
In GW2, why not have drakes pull people out of the crowd and bounce them some distance away. This could improve performance and keep zergs more balanced . . .
HEY! Hold it right there…
Are you suggesting pve stuff for WvW???
Time for your FLOGGING!
XD
I agree, Tyler and the wvw team have been great in keeping communications up with recent changes since Mike reorganized the staff in the background.
A lot more red tag posts around in the wvw section that’s for sure, and now they have a poll up to see where we the players want wvw development to go in the immediate future. Which means they are going to work on wvw more, and what they just released wasn’t just a little development spurt to try and shut us up lol.
Hopefully they can keep this up in the future even if some things may not work out, they just need to let us know what’s going on, what they were thinking with changes, and things will be much more forgiving than the silent treatment we had been given for far too long before this turn around.
Things got rough around here because as players we felt we were being ignored, that nothing was being done for wvw, the devs weren’t interested in our ideas/interest for wvw.
The recent changes have been great in my opinion, so my props to Tyler and the wvw team, please keep up the good work in updating my favorite part of the game!
I would also include some extra “outnumbered” score adjustments while at it. Perhaps add a “local outnumbered” or tiered “map outnumbered” buff that would affect the scoring to at least some degree.
This, I’m hoping part of the lessening the score gap will have something to this effect in it. The outnumbered buff really is pointless as it is, extra magic find and exp when you have less chances to kill someone because there’s much more enemies around? No, give the outnumbered side some extra points for being able to take structures with lesser numbers is more fitting. Or give their siege some extra damage so they can either hold off the blobs, or be able to break into places a little faster.
Anet has no control over the population, players will play where they want to play and Anet only has some control on that, but they have full control over the scoring mechanics.
It mentions that scores need to be closer. If the scores are closer the glicko rating changes less at the end of each matchup, which means tiers will be even more locked in. Scores being closer AFTER a glicko rating reset may work, but would still be tricky since nobody here can with an honest face say that BG has the same active WvW population as everybody else, or that JQ/YB has the same population as the servers in the T3 matchup etc.
I’m perfectly fine with time slice, time slice implies that each slice is equal. I’m not fine with “Reduce the impact of night capping.” because the earth is in a roughly spherical shape and your night is not my night.
Well to go along with that I never liked the glicko system, I was always for the one up one down system. 1st moves up a tier, 3rd moves down a tier, 2nd server stays in the tier, in the case of the top and bottom tiers only 1 server moves.
I also never liked any of the “reduce points in whatever they deem to be a night time” for a server options, just because someone plays in a different time zone than me(est) doesn’t mean their time is less valuable to me. It’s very unfair. Time slicing is a fair option.
Yes you’re right that scores do affect glicko, especially when you see the blowout scores which happens around the times when a server no longer belongs in that tier. Once servers settle into their rightful tier the scoring tends to even out and the glicko rating even out as well. But isn’t that what everyone wanted? to face servers around their level of population? I know it sucks facing the same two servers for months on end…
But they have a random variance they add after glicko is figured out at the end of the match, which allows servers to get enough glicko to either jump or drop into another tier. That number was reduced for about 2 years which is why you saw less movement between tiers, and made it harder for some servers to break through, T1/2. But I believe they raised that number again recently.
I prefer seeing close matches right down to the last day, it’s exciting and gives players a reason to play everyday of the match, unfortunately that is a pretty rare thing to see.
Nailed it.
Although some lower tier servers might benefit from the cross-map chat , it will not affect most people that use TS / whisper
Reduced nameplate clutter may make for easier counting of enemy forces more than 25 that are in a stack but not standing directly on top of each other (can’t think of many other effects)
There’s no doubt some of those QoL changes would be nice to have, but weigh that against scoring which could revitalize wvw, stuff we’ve had complaints and suggestions for 3 years now and I personally would rather that worked on first.
The only question I have about each section is how long would each take?, if the QoL changes would take maybe a month to implement vs 3 months for scoring changes, the QoL changes would have a chance to take priority. But if it would take 3 months over say 6 months on the scoring changes? hm maybe not.
In the end we’ll be getting both eventually, I just want them to work on the stuff that will really have an impact on wvw, hopefully help grow the wvw population again.
I strongly disagree with this, it only locks the tiers in even more. Then people will get bored again of fighting the same people over and over, then they will leave again.
That’s glicko, not what they’re talking about. Which btw they’ve made changes to recently.
Your night is not my night.
Don’t care, time slice scoring needs to be implemented.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.