We ever figure out why the stats are working differently for pets, like drakes should have 30k hp….yet are sitting at 24k?
Well, as far as I recall in ANet’s stating it was said BM wasn’t OP (AFAIK they were extremely strong 1v1, but they died quickly when focused), BUT they wanted to give more damage potential to the ranger than to the pet. So it’s more like they are in the middle of a process: if this is true, then I think dev’s intention is to make sure Rangers remain strong. So they should expect buffs, right?
They nerfed their damage because they said they increased the pets survivability a ton in a previous patch (they didn’t)
They gave them like 50%hp buffs and 20% dmg nerfs, oh no! now they do more b4 dying but they aren’t as stealth and spike!
They didn’t give them 50% hp buffs
In fact most pets seem to have less HP then their vitality should suggest (Drakes have 24k or something, when their vitality suggest they should have 35k)
You’re not magically kicking butt because its all skill mate…You’re doing better now because the overbuffed your class
We also have evades on your weapons like you have Block on your shield, Because you have Heavy armor (and more HP) you get less Evades then us…
I mean did you look a the class list there, You have one of the best heals in the game now with no investment.
Oh myyyyy… +200 armor + 3k health! That makes us unstoppable juggernauts of doom! Who needs to dodge anymore? Sorry, evading is still much superior.
However, it might also be that warriors had to play with really sub-par tools for a LONG time. It might be that the work needed to be “decent” with other classes still made you a free kill as a warrior.
It might be that it was YOU who mistakenly tought you skillfully outplayed warriors when you killed them before.
It wasn’t skillfully out playing Warriors before, Everyone knew Warriors had terrible condition removal and most didn’t go for sustain at all.
I just recognize when something was overbuffed, which the Warrior was, just like the Necromancer (which I also have)
I’m sorry you’re getting a taste of overpowered, and think magically they patched in skill to all warriors, I’m sorry you can’t look at things objectively because its the class you play (I honestly wouldn’t expect most rangers to do the same thing, or any other class)
Take spirit rangers, I personally think all the whining about them is silly, But I can also see how they could be overpowered in Structured just based on the fact they changed them recently (When your spirit abilities were on cooldown when they died, they didn’t fire off, now you can pop for example the call lightning ability, have it hit for 3k damage, then have the spirit..cause lets face it, it will, and it’ll pop again for 3k damage) Now out in open world that might not be over the top, however standing on the point is not a huge area you can move from, so you’re going to get hit.. Run 2 spirit rangers and that’s 12k damage to everyone on the point.
But anyway, that’s me looking at my class objectively and seeing that there are some issues with it being overpowered in some situations.. But you continue telling yourself that the Warrior is just up to par now, and the fact that a vast majority of Warrior are now running mace/shield with great sword running the exact same build is just coincidence
More i think about it, the more I probably wouldn’t use PI, but use Technobabble instead, since Technobabble would basically become a Single Target version of PI (but with a vastly longer confusion + daze) It also makes Techno a pretty nasty nuke if you think about it.
PI would be great for AOE, but then again..Its hard to fight 2 people anymore unless they just suck…
It doesn’t really matter whether he was right or wrong about healing on a spirit ranger. They are part of the meta, where as warriors are not. If a spirit ranger comes in here complaining about this build it is pretty lame. He probably confused spirit ranger with BM regen builds.
Yeah, sorry. Spirit rangers make excellent mobile homepoints as part of the current meta, and BM regen builds can easily top 500 HP/s, as can many other builds and classes.
Did everyone already forget what Warriors were like before the healing buff?? You could just wear them down in a fight, and they could either stay and die, or turn and flee for their lives.
You COULD move some of the baseline healing into traited stuff, for the same overall result, but then again…. that’d only pidgeonholes warriors into those very traits because they need them to survive. You’ll see MORE gimmicky builds that way, not less.
The reason his healing seems OP is because he’s also controlling you (and you’re letting him) which means you’re not hitting him all the time.
I actually have no problem with you having improvements to your heals, Just as long as you have to invest in healing power like everyone else.
If you check out this thread, you’ll see we are pretty on par when you consider other sources of healing and mitigation. Warriors don’t have the luxury of easy access to reliable regen, evades and heals attached to our weapons, or protection. A lot of us made this class work over the last 11 months, and we got pretty decent with broken heals. Now that our heals have been buffed to the point that a player can’t just faceroll against a good warrior, people are getting hefty doses of skilled players at the helm of a competitive class.
Honestly, I was surprised to see you in here. Even after all these changes, Ranger still looks like a really tempting class to me. Great regen duration; preci and crit damage in the same tree; 150 precision 20 points deep in the power tree; really strong sustained ranged damage; good uptime on fury; stuns, dazes, and evades tacked onto some of your weapons… you guys have some tools that are pretty awesome. If it wasn’t for lemongrass, I dare say my ranger would make my warrior cry.
You’re not magically kicking butt because its all skill mate…You’re doing better now because the overbuffed your class
We also have evades on your weapons like you have Block on your shield, Because you have Heavy armor (and more HP) you get less Evades then us…
I mean did you look a the class list there, You have one of the best heals in the game now with no investment.
Signet healing is actually one of the worst heals in the game if you are facing any type of real burst or consistent poison condition. It’s only good for fights that last a long time (i.e. 1v1 situations against bunkers, such as the ranger BM bunker that you like to run).
Healing surge was brought in line with warrior HP pool and functions similar to other classes’ heals given their HP pools. Also, if you don’t have full adrenaline the heal is relatively mediocre, and we need to constantly be emptying our adrenaline to do damage as a class.
Warriors are not OP. There’s a reason why no one is rushing to integrate them into their tpvp teams. (versus, say, necros).
You realize this build typically has a lot of toughness and multi ways to avoid burst, and you can kitten near be completely immune to conditions, so Poison is not a problem.
and Adrenal a Mediocre Heal? Its heals better then Natural Healing which is a Grandmaster trait in the Ranger BM line….You get it for spending 15 points in a line and its free…Quit your kittening about your Heals being bad.
How pray tell are you immune to poison?
By running anti condition runes and food?
That tends to help..
Though I suppose you might be screwed if you ran across a Thief who just wanted to Choking Gas on top of you a lot.
Not that you couldn’t just remove it by Skull cracking him in the face though (since that’ll remove it)
What about SPVP? You can’t use food in SPVP.
Nor can you use food to increase duration either, You’re still removing Poison at a fairly fast rate..Though I do love the whole “What about SPvP” route you guys love to take.
yea, would make Dogs nasty
It doesn’t really matter whether he was right or wrong about healing on a spirit ranger. They are part of the meta, where as warriors are not. If a spirit ranger comes in here complaining about this build it is pretty lame. He probably confused spirit ranger with BM regen builds.
Yeah, sorry. Spirit rangers make excellent mobile homepoints as part of the current meta, and BM regen builds can easily top 500 HP/s, as can many other builds and classes.
Did everyone already forget what Warriors were like before the healing buff?? You could just wear them down in a fight, and they could either stay and die, or turn and flee for their lives.
You COULD move some of the baseline healing into traited stuff, for the same overall result, but then again…. that’d only pidgeonholes warriors into those very traits because they need them to survive. You’ll see MORE gimmicky builds that way, not less.
The reason his healing seems OP is because he’s also controlling you (and you’re letting him) which means you’re not hitting him all the time.
I actually have no problem with you having improvements to your heals, Just as long as you have to invest in healing power like everyone else.
If you check out this thread, you’ll see we are pretty on par when you consider other sources of healing and mitigation. Warriors don’t have the luxury of easy access to reliable regen, evades and heals attached to our weapons, or protection. A lot of us made this class work over the last 11 months, and we got pretty decent with broken heals. Now that our heals have been buffed to the point that a player can’t just faceroll against a good warrior, people are getting hefty doses of skilled players at the helm of a competitive class.
Honestly, I was surprised to see you in here. Even after all these changes, Ranger still looks like a really tempting class to me. Great regen duration; preci and crit damage in the same tree; 150 precision 20 points deep in the power tree; really strong sustained ranged damage; good uptime on fury; stuns, dazes, and evades tacked onto some of your weapons… you guys have some tools that are pretty awesome. If it wasn’t for lemongrass, I dare say my ranger would make my warrior cry.
You’re not magically kicking butt because its all skill mate…You’re doing better now because the overbuffed your class
We also have evades on your weapons like you have Block on your shield, Because you have Heavy armor (and more HP) you get less Evades then us…
I mean did you look a the class list there, You have one of the best heals in the game now with no investment.
Signet healing is actually one of the worst heals in the game if you are facing any type of real burst or consistent poison condition. It’s only good for fights that last a long time (i.e. 1v1 situations against bunkers, such as the ranger BM bunker that you like to run).
Healing surge was brought in line with warrior HP pool and functions similar to other classes’ heals given their HP pools. Also, if you don’t have full adrenaline the heal is relatively mediocre, and we need to constantly be emptying our adrenaline to do damage as a class.
Warriors are not OP. There’s a reason why no one is rushing to integrate them into their tpvp teams. (versus, say, necros).
You realize this build typically has a lot of toughness and multi ways to avoid burst, and you can kitten near be completely immune to conditions, so Poison is not a problem.
and Adrenal a Mediocre Heal? Its heals better then Natural Healing which is a Grandmaster trait in the Ranger BM line….You get it for spending 15 points in a line and its free…Quit your kittening about your Heals being bad.
How pray tell are you immune to poison?
By running anti condition runes and food?
That tends to help..
Though I suppose you might be screwed if you ran across a Thief who just wanted to Choking Gas on top of you a lot.
Not that you couldn’t just remove it by Skull cracking him in the face though (since that’ll remove it)
That’s the only problem i have with it right now..I’d be forced to use something like Bow or Technobabble (over PI, though I could just run Heal/TB/PI and have no speed, but not sure about that)
I know I wouldn’t want to run Axe offhand though, would be awful…..
At same time no way i’d ever want to give up axe/torch and sword/dagger either for Shortbow.
It doesn’t really matter whether he was right or wrong about healing on a spirit ranger. They are part of the meta, where as warriors are not. If a spirit ranger comes in here complaining about this build it is pretty lame. He probably confused spirit ranger with BM regen builds.
Yeah, sorry. Spirit rangers make excellent mobile homepoints as part of the current meta, and BM regen builds can easily top 500 HP/s, as can many other builds and classes.
Did everyone already forget what Warriors were like before the healing buff?? You could just wear them down in a fight, and they could either stay and die, or turn and flee for their lives.
You COULD move some of the baseline healing into traited stuff, for the same overall result, but then again…. that’d only pidgeonholes warriors into those very traits because they need them to survive. You’ll see MORE gimmicky builds that way, not less.
The reason his healing seems OP is because he’s also controlling you (and you’re letting him) which means you’re not hitting him all the time.
I actually have no problem with you having improvements to your heals, Just as long as you have to invest in healing power like everyone else.
If you check out this thread, you’ll see we are pretty on par when you consider other sources of healing and mitigation. Warriors don’t have the luxury of easy access to reliable regen, evades and heals attached to our weapons, or protection. A lot of us made this class work over the last 11 months, and we got pretty decent with broken heals. Now that our heals have been buffed to the point that a player can’t just faceroll against a good warrior, people are getting hefty doses of skilled players at the helm of a competitive class.
Honestly, I was surprised to see you in here. Even after all these changes, Ranger still looks like a really tempting class to me. Great regen duration; preci and crit damage in the same tree; 150 precision 20 points deep in the power tree; really strong sustained ranged damage; good uptime on fury; stuns, dazes, and evades tacked onto some of your weapons… you guys have some tools that are pretty awesome. If it wasn’t for lemongrass, I dare say my ranger would make my warrior cry.
You’re not magically kicking butt because its all skill mate…You’re doing better now because the overbuffed your class
We also have evades on your weapons like you have Block on your shield, Because you have Heavy armor (and more HP) you get less Evades then us…
I mean did you look a the class list there, You have one of the best heals in the game now with no investment.
Signet healing is actually one of the worst heals in the game if you are facing any type of real burst or consistent poison condition. It’s only good for fights that last a long time (i.e. 1v1 situations against bunkers, such as the ranger BM bunker that you like to run).
Healing surge was brought in line with warrior HP pool and functions similar to other classes’ heals given their HP pools. Also, if you don’t have full adrenaline the heal is relatively mediocre, and we need to constantly be emptying our adrenaline to do damage as a class.
Warriors are not OP. There’s a reason why no one is rushing to integrate them into their tpvp teams. (versus, say, necros).
You realize this build typically has a lot of toughness and multi ways to avoid burst, and you can kitten near be completely immune to conditions, so Poison is not a problem.
and Adrenal a Mediocre Heal? Its heals better then Natural Healing which is a Grandmaster trait in the Ranger BM line….You get it for spending 15 points in a line and its free…Quit your kittening about your Heals being bad.
Well, as far as I recall in ANet’s stating it was said BM wasn’t OP (AFAIK they were extremely strong 1v1, but they died quickly when focused), BUT they wanted to give more damage potential to the ranger than to the pet. So it’s more like they are in the middle of a process: if this is true, then I think dev’s intention is to make sure Rangers remain strong. So they should expect buffs, right?
They nerfed their damage because they said they increased the pets survivability a ton in a previous patch (they didn’t)
So, the last couple of weeks has been rather heated when it comes to the Mace/Shield GS builds that are now popular for warrior. The amount of OP claims have possibly surpassed even the old Ele D/D build debate. However the main difference is that the d/d build is that it actually was just a little too good (although it was over nerfed). Our Mace/Shield build on the other hand only appears to be as strong as it is because it is countering the current meta.
The spec is strong 1v1, however 1v1 strength isn’t overly important in GW2. The same is true for Mesmer, it is very strong 1v1 (can frequently beat the Mace build), but just OK in team fights. The mace build can be good for either stopping a stomp or locking down a single target, but that’s about all. Even now warriors aren’t the fist choice for high level TPvP, because when the goal is to capture points classes that can lay down large amounts of AoE damage or classes that are able to withstand pressure from multiple foes. This build can do neither.
As for WvW, it’s the same deal, in a fight between 2 forces of large amount of enemies a warrior stun locking a single one isn’t going so somehow manage to shape the outcome. One Necro with Epidemic is far more deadly than multiple Mace warriors. Warriors can not burst as fast as a Thief or Ele, we can’t spread as many conditions as Necro or Engi, and we can’t withstand pressure from multiple enemies for an extended amount of time like Guardians. Warriors lie somewhere in between now, decent damage but not as much as a thief or the survivability of a guardian.
The idea that something that is not only counter-able by such things as : block, blind, dodging, Stability, Stun Breaks, Teleports, and Protection (dramatically reduces the damage 100b does). While Skull Crack can be used frequently, missing it means over 7 seconds of being very vulnerable. Healing Signet is only good because when a target is stunned or you are blocking you are regening HP, and sort of continual pressure makes Healing Sig useless.
The best compromise I could see is making Skull Crack a 2.5 second stun at max adren, reverting it to pre-buff would making it a lesser version of Earthshaker that’s only slightly easier to land. I still don’t see it as necessary because as I said the build is limited in its uses and people who have fallen victim to it are only looking at it from their personal views and not the overall picture.
Considering the amount of Nerfs my BM Bunker build just took in the past few months because of how strong it was in 1v1, I don’t think i’d hedge my bets on that keeping you safe from a nerf.
Armor Fish: Bite: Reduced the damage by 50%.
Bird: Slash: Increased the damage by 15%.
Eagle: Lacerating Slash: Reduced the damage by 50%.
Raven: Blinding Slash: Reduced the damage by 34%.
Canine: Bite: Reduced the damage by 27%.
Devourer: Twin Darts: Reduced the damage by 20%.
Drake: Bite: Reduced the damage by 27%.
Insect Swarm: This skill can no longer fire behind the drake.
Drake: Lightning Breath: Reduced the damage by 17%.
Feline: Maul: Reduced the damage by 50%.
Jaguar: Stalking: Critical chance increase while in stealth reduced to 25%.
Jellyfish: Tentacle Slash: Increased the damage by 50%.
Jellyfish Blue: Chilling Whirl: Decreased the damage by 33%.
Moa: Peck: Reduced the damage by 7%.
Pig: Jab: Reduced the damage by 25%.
Shark: Bite: Increased the damage by 10%.
Spider: Spit: Increased the damage by 10%.Start replacing the names of these Pet abilities with the names of your abilities…Come back and tell me you still believe only being good at 1v1 will save you from a nerf.
oh my god. Get this through your thick skull please, BM build isn’t and never was supposed to be the rangers single most viable class, it’s stupid and had a insanely low skill floor aswell as a low skill ceiling so someone who just started playing this game could pickup BM ranger and in a few days could have it “mastered”. Now go play your spirit ranger until that gets nerfed then QQ more pls
Oh i’m sorry, I didn’t know a Skull Crack Warrior required a huge learning curve that any dope couldn’t accomplish after a few hours of play…
Oh i don’t play a Spirit Ranger by the way..nice try cupcake
That new rune set will apply a 3 stack of Confusion, PI can apply a 3 stack (bringing it back to around the damage it did before) and if I pop on an interrupt ability (maybe even use Technobabble as a Single Target version) and have another 3 stack..
9 stacks of confusion would be possible with my build..
Hmm
It makes sense Pendleton, the way Barrage works is its 12 hits on 5 targets each.
The first hit will drain all the sharpening stones on the 5 targets.
Just like split blade will drain off 5 charges on all 5 of its hits.
Even if it hits 1 target or a bunch (since its pierces)
Just sucks, because I was using that combo for a Bleeder build.
Actually no… this is consistent with most PARAGON nerfs they also made years ago.
They pretty much to do it to every single AoE skill that could have a conditional “Proc” put on top of it. (Especially DeepWound & Burning procs)
ehh what?
Right now we are struggling on TC map because these kids are kill trading. It effects a actual game mode negatively and needs to be put to an end. As a community have already asked them to hold their kill trading till before reset, but they have refused plz do something Anet they are risking the effort put forth by the rest of there servers.
While I don’t personally think much of GvG in this game (seriously the 25vs25 thing is a freakin joke and should die already) let me on behalf of many people who world vs world kindly tell you to bugger off noob…
Seriously…this thread is a travesty to gaming…You should quit gaming for making it.
If Barrage hits 5 people it’ll eat the whole stack of Sharpening Stone, instead of the old each barrage hit would apply 1 stack of sharpening stone (so 5 people would get 5 stacks of bleeds)
I think Anet is secretly following me on this forum screwing my builds intentionally at this point grin
Yea, I use Rampager for this
Axe/Horn with Longbow
Can instant stack 25 bleeds on people, very nasty.
k tested it, Split Blade now works fine with Sharpening Stones
Though Keen Edges will still overright SS if you let it
I’ll test it out in a second with my build
lol if you think its hard then you don’t know positioning.
If you think its easy produce a video
It doesn’t really matter whether he was right or wrong about healing on a spirit ranger. They are part of the meta, where as warriors are not. If a spirit ranger comes in here complaining about this build it is pretty lame. He probably confused spirit ranger with BM regen builds.
Yeah, sorry. Spirit rangers make excellent mobile homepoints as part of the current meta, and BM regen builds can easily top 500 HP/s, as can many other builds and classes.
Did everyone already forget what Warriors were like before the healing buff?? You could just wear them down in a fight, and they could either stay and die, or turn and flee for their lives.
You COULD move some of the baseline healing into traited stuff, for the same overall result, but then again…. that’d only pidgeonholes warriors into those very traits because they need them to survive. You’ll see MORE gimmicky builds that way, not less.
The reason his healing seems OP is because he’s also controlling you (and you’re letting him) which means you’re not hitting him all the time.
I actually have no problem with you having improvements to your heals, Just as long as you have to invest in healing power like everyone else.
If you check out this thread, you’ll see we are pretty on par when you consider other sources of healing and mitigation. Warriors don’t have the luxury of easy access to reliable regen, evades and heals attached to our weapons, or protection. A lot of us made this class work over the last 11 months, and we got pretty decent with broken heals. Now that our heals have been buffed to the point that a player can’t just faceroll against a good warrior, people are getting hefty doses of skilled players at the helm of a competitive class.
Honestly, I was surprised to see you in here. Even after all these changes, Ranger still looks like a really tempting class to me. Great regen duration; preci and crit damage in the same tree; 150 precision 20 points deep in the power tree; really strong sustained ranged damage; good uptime on fury; stuns, dazes, and evades tacked onto some of your weapons… you guys have some tools that are pretty awesome. If it wasn’t for lemongrass, I dare say my ranger would make my warrior cry.
You’re not magically kicking butt because its all skill mate…You’re doing better now because the overbuffed your class
We also have evades on your weapons like you have Block on your shield, Because you have Heavy armor (and more HP) you get less Evades then us…
I mean did you look a the class list there, You have one of the best heals in the game now with no investment.
So, the last couple of weeks has been rather heated when it comes to the Mace/Shield GS builds that are now popular for warrior. The amount of OP claims have possibly surpassed even the old Ele D/D build debate. However the main difference is that the d/d build is that it actually was just a little too good (although it was over nerfed). Our Mace/Shield build on the other hand only appears to be as strong as it is because it is countering the current meta.
The spec is strong 1v1, however 1v1 strength isn’t overly important in GW2. The same is true for Mesmer, it is very strong 1v1 (can frequently beat the Mace build), but just OK in team fights. The mace build can be good for either stopping a stomp or locking down a single target, but that’s about all. Even now warriors aren’t the fist choice for high level TPvP, because when the goal is to capture points classes that can lay down large amounts of AoE damage or classes that are able to withstand pressure from multiple foes. This build can do neither.
As for WvW, it’s the same deal, in a fight between 2 forces of large amount of enemies a warrior stun locking a single one isn’t going so somehow manage to shape the outcome. One Necro with Epidemic is far more deadly than multiple Mace warriors. Warriors can not burst as fast as a Thief or Ele, we can’t spread as many conditions as Necro or Engi, and we can’t withstand pressure from multiple enemies for an extended amount of time like Guardians. Warriors lie somewhere in between now, decent damage but not as much as a thief or the survivability of a guardian.
The idea that something that is not only counter-able by such things as : block, blind, dodging, Stability, Stun Breaks, Teleports, and Protection (dramatically reduces the damage 100b does). While Skull Crack can be used frequently, missing it means over 7 seconds of being very vulnerable. Healing Signet is only good because when a target is stunned or you are blocking you are regening HP, and sort of continual pressure makes Healing Sig useless.
The best compromise I could see is making Skull Crack a 2.5 second stun at max adren, reverting it to pre-buff would making it a lesser version of Earthshaker that’s only slightly easier to land. I still don’t see it as necessary because as I said the build is limited in its uses and people who have fallen victim to it are only looking at it from their personal views and not the overall picture.
Considering the amount of Nerfs my BM Bunker build just took in the past few months because of how strong it was in 1v1, I don’t think i’d hedge my bets on that keeping you safe from a nerf.
Armor Fish: Bite: Reduced the damage by 50%.
Bird: Slash: Increased the damage by 15%.
Eagle: Lacerating Slash: Reduced the damage by 50%.
Raven: Blinding Slash: Reduced the damage by 34%.
Canine: Bite: Reduced the damage by 27%.
Devourer: Twin Darts: Reduced the damage by 20%.
Drake: Bite: Reduced the damage by 27%.
Insect Swarm: This skill can no longer fire behind the drake.
Drake: Lightning Breath: Reduced the damage by 17%.
Feline: Maul: Reduced the damage by 50%.
Jaguar: Stalking: Critical chance increase while in stealth reduced to 25%.
Jellyfish: Tentacle Slash: Increased the damage by 50%.
Jellyfish Blue: Chilling Whirl: Decreased the damage by 33%.
Moa: Peck: Reduced the damage by 7%.
Pig: Jab: Reduced the damage by 25%.
Shark: Bite: Increased the damage by 10%.
Spider: Spit: Increased the damage by 10%.
Start replacing the names of these Pet abilities with the names of your abilities…Come back and tell me you still believe only being good at 1v1 will save you from a nerf.
It doesn’t really matter whether he was right or wrong about healing on a spirit ranger. They are part of the meta, where as warriors are not. If a spirit ranger comes in here complaining about this build it is pretty lame. He probably confused spirit ranger with BM regen builds.
Yeah, sorry. Spirit rangers make excellent mobile homepoints as part of the current meta, and BM regen builds can easily top 500 HP/s, as can many other builds and classes.
Did everyone already forget what Warriors were like before the healing buff?? You could just wear them down in a fight, and they could either stay and die, or turn and flee for their lives.
You COULD move some of the baseline healing into traited stuff, for the same overall result, but then again…. that’d only pidgeonholes warriors into those very traits because they need them to survive. You’ll see MORE gimmicky builds that way, not less.
The reason his healing seems OP is because he’s also controlling you (and you’re letting him) which means you’re not hitting him all the time.
I actually have no problem with you having improvements to your heals, Just as long as you have to invest in healing power like everyone else.
This is a part of the larger problem: thieves in general.
They require a lot of attention from Mr Peters and co.
Thieves are fine.
If by “fine” you mean “overpowered”, I agree.
Thieves are a trash class that was overspecialized into doing one thing in the most game breaking and simple manner possible: press 2 a lot and have near permanent access to invisibility…!#$%ing infantile…
The class is otherwise totally worthless in WvW. You run in a zerg with a glass cannon thief and what happens is you go down, you die, and then half the enemy zerg rally’s off your stupid little thief !#$, and they proceed to straight up curb stomp your allies.
The Thief represents a total failure in core class design by being neither challenging to play, nor encouraging of build versatility, nor presenting options to fill other roles in a party, and makes itself infamous for the only thing it can do well: being a no-skill-required pain in the #$% amounting to little more than a bunch of petty trolls.
The entire class needs a MAJOR overhaul, primarily in changing the whole no-skill-required stealth and spam-2-till-it-dies mechanics of the class.
Rofl, haven’t seen that video in a while, That was before all the D/D ele’s appeared and Ele’s realized like most classes, you pretty have to go bunker so you don’t die to thieves
lol you kids are a joke.
Xsorass my exp in tpvp is minor when compared with my hundreds if not thousands of hours in wvw of my almost 3k hours played. I started the game with AA and am on black gate with most of the remaining players now but if there was one thing you would know its jack and kitten. lol
Johje are you saying that the reason some people don’t pvp is because some one kills them…. gotcha.
Its not my fault you tried to bring TPvP into the argument on why Thieves aren’t oped, only to have it pointed out all the changes they’ve done to TPvP to make them somewhat balanced, How about we go back to 4 second Revealed, or Revealed after coming out of stealth period.
So 3 classes( elementalist,warrior,mesmers) are not gonna be seen at pax at all.At the same time people at pax will get to experience from 3 different views the magnificent and engaging gameplay of spiritranger,the spectacualr 1200 range aoes of necro,the amazing and diverse play of s/d thief etc
GG Anet :P
The Irony of course is a few patches ago it would of been 3 Ele’s1 Mesmer/1 Guardian
Why is Spiked Armor weaker then other classes minor ‘5’ traits?
Example here…
Guardian
Tier Adept Type Minor
Vigorous Precision
Gain 5 seconds of vigor when you deliver a critical hit. This effect can only trigger once every 5 seconds.Warrior
Tier Grandmaster Type Major
Spiked Armor
Gain 5 seconds of retaliation when struck by a critical hit. Cannot trigger more than once every 15 seconds.Isn’t there something wrong with this picture? Spiked Armor is so weak comparingly to this trait it doesn’t even make sense, both are toughness traits, either something should be done to fix and improve spiked armor, or traits like Vigorous Precision should be moved into their respective major grand-master trait alongside altruistic healing.
Here is my idea.
Spiked Armor
Gain 5 seconds of protection and retaliation when you deliver a critical melee hit. This effect can only trigger once every 10 seconds.
You want 5 seconds of protection and retal whenever you deal a critical melee crit, on a 10 second cooldown?
…….
You do realize that they nerfed multiple abilities of the Thief in SPvP right? and you have 4 second Revealed vs 3 second revealed in WvW
So your exp there means jack and kitten.
adrenal health
U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.
Adrenal health is a Trait, which means that it’s not baseline. It’s specced.
And regen is only accessible through 30 points in Tactics AND then running banners, which means we’re a pure bunker build.
Yeah, you DO realize most other facetanking classes can get an effective 500 HP/s without much difficulty, right? Such as Guardian, Ele, Engi? Have you ever seen a spirit range take hits, their staying power is crazy! And while mes and thief dont “take” hits, they do evade them which is still a form of sustain even if it’s not direct healing. I think necro has some sustain issues though but im hardly an expert.
In addition to #6 and Resolve, Guards can go for AH, or healing symbols, have easy access to regen and protection, can get teeny heals on GS swings. Cmon man, dont make me name everything everyone can do to heal/sustain here. The only difference with Warrior is that the heal comes from a single source, signet, instead of being spread around to several smaller sources
Dont believe that? Tough man, the proof is in the pudding.
If Warrior healing and sustain is so OP now, where are the bunker warriors stepping up to replace Guardians in tPvP?
Did you just say a Spirit Ranger has staying power?
You realize it doesn’t have Health Regen right?? Spirits take up the slot of Signet of the Wild, and None of them go Natural Healing (30 BM)
That basically leaves the Regen Buff, Which Healing Signet and Adrenal Health will easily outdo alone.
Oh wait, I forgot Spirit Rangers have that awesome Elite ability that you can kill, Its got a nice fat 240 second cooldown though..
No one will ever take a class seriously in terms of skill that can stealth every 3 seconds….Esp one that can perma stealth at will while in combat.
Esp one that has high damage, great condition removal, heals, amazing mobility.
I doubt it’ll be fixed, mainly because Anet has a kitten for SPvP which has things like Spirit Rangers being complained about.
But want an example of an actual Stealther Video with actual good Stealthers…You won’t find them in this game
Nope
You have to go back before WoW muddied everything up with god awful concept of a stealther
WoW took a slow methodical class, and turned it into the kitten we see in games today, High Burst/Multiple Stealths/High Mobility super class that generally gets complained about a lot.
There is nothing remotely challenging about playing a class that can escape at will and requires a zerg of people to actually kill. I have a thief..It is not challenge, there is little risk to playing it…To pretend it requires skill is hilarious
I’m going to link you guys to the greatest Stealther Video in a game to date…this is why no one takes anyone who plays a stealther past WoW seriously
Ask yourself why 90% of the classes in this game are forced to go something besides Glass Cannon but the Thief is not
That should tell you why the class is broken
In Warhammer Online, both the Squig Herder and the White Lion could take up a talent that gave them a damage increase if they didn’t have their out.
Sol,
I was speaking generally, trying out the Trap, Spirit, Power, and a BM build I threw together that was very difficult to kill.
There is almost no risk/reward with this class. It is designed to be high skill floor through evade spamming, passive+active, and AI crutches.
I don’t blame you for maining this class or anyone else that plays the game. I don’t have problems with Ranger players anymore because I’ve realized that if you have the choice between a Ferrari and a Volvo it just makes sense to take the Ferrari.
My problem is with the people who made the class so easy to learn and master and rewards people to not play something that requires timing and skill in favor of… this.
If I wanted to go into specifics I would fill up the entire page of ways you can easily beat most players with Ranger. Most of them have to do with evading key skills they need to land to kill you.
None of those ways make me go “Wow I really outplayed this guy,” except for LB/GS but even then it’s easy to play a glass build when you have more than 20 seconds of stability to use your rotation.
I want to get all the champion titles but getting the one for Ranger is going to make me hate this game.
Did you just say its easy to play a Glass Cannon Ranger cause you have 20 seconds of stability with Rampage as one?
I tell you what, You go make a video of you playing Glass Cannon Ranger in TPvP
Ahh, So let me see if I can figure out what the OP is saying
That Thieves should be allowed to kill with impunity in WvW and get away Scott free because that is their specific role?
Can someone please point it out where Anet has said that Thieves are the only ones allowed to run around in WvW solo, Because its not like you can’t zerg just fine as a Thief (I do it all the time on mine)
Rofl at people who think GW2 handles zerg fights better then DAOC.
A. the zergs in DAOC were massive, and completely blow this game away in size…To give you an idea… Whenever we did an ML raid on Midgard Merlin, we had to run 2 Battlegroups, that’s 500 Players, all in one area… stuck together… That’s one Faction… When Frontiers were attacked, the zergs that poured out were massive….Now what kept most of the massive zerg battles in check though was the fact that an 8man could run by and blow an entire zerg up in seconds.
B. Warhammer Online, Is also comparable to this game, When did it lag? Not during open field or running around, The Major Complaint when it lagged was when you stacked the entire server in a small area that was comparable to EB Center Keep. That’s why they introduced the cap, Because the game couldn’t handle that many players (Neither could GW2, hence why you have a cap on the Maps)
Both games I consider honestly better than GW2..yes even Warhammer Online, despite its 2 factions, I consider it better then GW2 gameplay wise.
Going to chime in on this as well real quick, If your first answer to someone saying your build is overpowered is to point to another class that is considered vastly overpowered and say “Well they’re overpowered” then guess what, You’re overpowered.
This isn’t about Warriors no longer being free kills as you say, But maybe just maybe, Anet overbuffed certain aspects of your class recently in regards to how powerful it is, Just like the Necro..Which if you think about it, Is quite hilarious since they said themselves it wouldn’t take much to overpower both of those classes….Yet they still managed to do it.
Coming from someone primarily who plays a Ranger..Trust me when I say you mine as well just admit to being OPed and take the lumps, because the nerfs you’ll have coming to you will end up completely decimating your builds.
I’ve had my builds eat it constantly for the past few months…and i’m pretty much expecting to eat it some more next patch.
I personally don’t think the build is OP in WvW but that doesn’t mean it won’t get nerfed. The problem is people said rangers were OP in sPvP and almost every team carried one so they got nerfed. Same with D/D ele. Warriors are still considered bad in sPvP so i would expect more buffs to warrior then nerfs TBH.
Give it time.
I actually added some more onto the post up above, but it didn’t go through, so i’ll just add it here
They honestly took the warrior changes to far, just like they did with the Necro Changes.
A. Conditions on Warriors, Before it was the biggest weakness of the Warrior class, and they honestly did need help, Factor in all the changes they did though, and they took it to far, Factor in things like the Food present and Warriors are basically immune to conditions… Meaning its no longer a weakness (when it should be one)
B. Healing, Again something they improved far to much, the healing signet needed to be improved, but it should of been on the active heal side, Giving it 400+ HPS without a drop of healing power? That’s just silly.. Throw in Adrenal Heal which also is higher then most passive heals (like the rangers for example) without a drop of healing power and you start to get in the silly sustain levels without any gearing for it. I mean without any Healing Power a Warrior is already got better passive healing then a Ranger with full Healing Gear.
C. Anyone who thinks a 3.5 Second stun on a 7 second cooldown is fine (not even counting the other stuns) is out of their mind….I run the technobabble build, that’s a 5 second daze on a 45 second cooldown, and its incredibly powerful…. Its bloody silly sometimes, So to even pretend that a 7 second cooldown one that last almost as much and is a stun isn’t powerful is just silly…. I don’t care how great you are at dodging, you will eventually get stunned, Its only a matter of time, and if you run anything but full toughness gear, You’re dead..
(edited by Xsorus.2507)
Going to chime in on this as well real quick, If your first answer to someone saying your build is overpowered is to point to another class that is considered vastly overpowered and say “Well they’re overpowered” then guess what, You’re overpowered.
This isn’t about Warriors no longer being free kills as you say, But maybe just maybe, Anet overbuffed certain aspects of your class recently in regards to how powerful it is, Just like the Necro..Which if you think about it, Is quite hilarious since they said themselves it wouldn’t take much to overpower both of those classes….Yet they still managed to do it.
Coming from someone primarily who plays a Ranger..Trust me when I say you mine as well just admit to being OPed and take the lumps, because the nerfs you’ll have coming to you will end up completely decimating your builds.
I’ve had my builds eat it constantly for the past few months…and i’m pretty much expecting to eat it some more next patch.
That isn’t really what those of us who want an explanation are saying.
Prove to us that the counters we’ve mentioned aren’t enough, and prove it without using WvW 40% food as the basis for the argument. Prove that the build can handle the sort of situations other bunker builds can. Use the counters to explain why the counters aren’t enough, and do it while trying to analyze why they would be enough.
It’s a strong build. It has more survivability than people are probably used to seeing on a Warrior, and it punishes sloppy play with a fairly simple combo. But if you’re going to make claims about it being OP, then I want to see some proof.
At this point, it’s the principle of the thing. All I see now is “just admit that it’s OP”, or “3-4 second stun on a 7 second cooldown gg”, or “you haven’t responded to me? I must be right, it’s OP”. Sprinkle in some claims about the counter-play without defining what quality counterplay means to the poster, and it’s an absolute mess in here.
I just want some critical thinking. Is that too much to ask? Is balance about insuring that a bad player with no build cohesion and blind ability spamming won’t get destroyed? I’ve dropped Thieves basically 100 – 0 with a simple Hammer comkittenf Hammer, because it’s OP with its AoE 600-range stun on a 7 second cooldown that you can basically guarantee to land with Leg Specialist?
At this point, I don’t know what people want. Warriors have generally been about melee pressure/control. Like it or not, this game isn’t new-player friendly. You’re going to get totally blown up by someone who knows what he/she is doing, or if they’re playing bunker, they just won’t ever die.
You’ll never catch a Mesmer and you’ll die without knowing why.
A Thief will perma-blind you or Backstab you for half of your health.
A Ranger will just shoot you forever, then once you get close, will evade 4+ times and you won’t do anything.
A Necro will condition bomb you back into your mother’s womb.
A Guardian won’t die, and meanwhile, you will.
An Elementalist also won’t seem to die, and you won’t know why.
A Warrior will lock you down and grind you into the floor.
An Engi… I honestly never get to fight Engis, so I don’t know. Suddenly sad.Either way, I don’t understand what they want their fight against a Warrior to be. If you get chain-stunned and killed, it’s probably going to be frustrating. Ok. That doesn’t make it OP. If anything, stun is one of the most counterable things in the game.
So I’ll continue to wait for someone to try harder at proving it’s OverPowered. To prove that it’s too powerful in the game and needs to be toned down because it’s crippling sPvP, PvE, or WvW.
Note: 1v1 roaming matches have absolutely no substantial impact on the WvW match itself.
Know how far I got into your post?
prove it without using WvW 40% food as the basis for the argument.
That’s how far it took me to figure out I shouldn’t take you seriously.
Mainly because While this food does make the warrior completely over the top probably, it doesn’t exist in SPvP, but at the same time the counter food to it also doesn’t exist…So it really does matter, However but reading that one line, I’ve determined that you think this game should be balancing squarely on SPvP and nothing else. I’m here to tell you, that is a very very ill thought out and poor line of thinking that will get your class gutted in the end.
I was never talking from a thief’s perspective, How would a ranger or D/D ele deal with it? oh right, still stay at range and try to CC an un-CCable build, gotcha.
Is this a joke? Rangers and ele’s have plenty of access to stability, which mixed with stun breakers completely counters the skull crack build. Both also have far better sustain than a warrior and both have access to protection.
2. The other is Rampage as one, a 120 Second Elite.
That is it..
That happens to give 20s of stability base, and more if you’re built for pvp/wvw. Which is plenty of time to win the fight or run away. I truly have trouble believing you can’t counter this build as my ranger has zero problems with it. Maybe i’ve just been extremely lucky. /shrug
Built for pvp/wvw? At most you’re going to increase it by 10 seconds if you absolutely go all out, That means you’re looking at realistically 50-60 seconds of it not being up. If you think that’s a good source of stability you’re kidding yourself.
You’re also not killing anyone who’s not glass cannon in 20 seconds, I don’t know when the last time you’ve actually played your Ranger, but that doesn’t happen…And you won’t be killing a Warrior who builds anti condition in 20 seconds.
Going to chime in on this as well real quick, If your first answer to someone saying your build is overpowered is to point to another class that is considered vastly overpowered and say “Well they’re overpowered” then guess what, You’re overpowered.
This isn’t about Warriors no longer being free kills as you say, But maybe just maybe, Anet overbuffed certain aspects of your class recently in regards to how powerful it is, Just like the Necro..Which if you think about it, Is quite hilarious since they said themselves it wouldn’t take much to overpower both of those classes….Yet they still managed to do it.
Coming from someone primarily who plays a Ranger..Trust me when I say you mine as well just admit to being OPed and take the lumps, because the nerfs you’ll have coming to you will end up completely decimating your builds.
I’ve had my builds eat it constantly for the past few months…and i’m pretty much expecting to eat it some more next patch.
There are 9 of pages with plenty of info and facts of how this totally have counters, if you are ignoring them is YOUR PROBLEM, and has nothing to do with the warrior class.
I see 9 pages of people pointing out things that might be overpowered, and warriors saying “But THIEEEEEEVVVVEEESSS”
You might not think you’re overpowered, Instead you’ve just drastically gotten better as a player in the past few patches, and it was all because of “skill”
But that still doesn’t mean you won’t get gutted down the line, Just sayin..
If you don’t want to take my warning seriously, that’s your problem.
Going to chime in on this as well real quick, If your first answer to someone saying your build is overpowered is to point to another class that is considered vastly overpowered and say “Well they’re overpowered” then guess what, You’re overpowered.
This isn’t about Warriors no longer being free kills as you say, But maybe just maybe, Anet overbuffed certain aspects of your class recently in regards to how powerful it is, Just like the Necro..Which if you think about it, Is quite hilarious since they said themselves it wouldn’t take much to overpower both of those classes….Yet they still managed to do it.
Coming from someone primarily who plays a Ranger..Trust me when I say you mine as well just admit to being OPed and take the lumps, because the nerfs you’ll have coming to you will end up completely decimating your builds.
I’ve had my builds eat it constantly for the past few months…and i’m pretty much expecting to eat it some more next patch.
I was never talking from a thief’s perspective, How would a ranger or D/D ele deal with it? oh right, still stay at range and try to CC an un-CCable build, gotcha.
Is this a joke? Rangers and ele’s have plenty of access to stability, which mixed with stun breakers completely counters the skull crack build. Both also have far better sustain than a warrior and both have access to protection.
Ranger’s have access to 2 Stability buffs
1. Is Signet of the Wild, which requires 30 points in Marksman to get the Grandmaster Trait to get.
2. The other is Rampage as one, a 120 Second Elite.
That is it..
Nah, when sigil of geomancy is on cooldown sigil of earth won’t go off.
There were plenty of ways to get out of Stun/Mez in DAOC, If you got caught like the Kzar zergs its because you were stacking and moving together and didn’t spread out when inc was called.
Which is how it should be, in this game when inc is called, people ball up in a huge stack….That should tell you something is really wrong with the game mechanics.
As for removing AOE cap, they’d have to remove Retal also, otherwise anyone who aoe’d a zerg would just instantly die.
Also for the people who talk about Melee being useless in DAOC during zerging, Not entirely true, like all games he who was pushing was usually winning in zerg fights, And you needed melee for that. Melee classes in that game also didn’t have sweep attacks like this game, So Melee would still be far better in this game.
Closest comparison would be requiring of the Knight of the Blazing Sun in DAOC in Order groups for Bombing Zergs.
Also who says you can’t chain stun in this game? Cause you most certainly can be chain CCed if you don’t have stability (Which existed in some forms in DAOC as well)
I have a Ranger Dazer build I run that can keep you CCed for 12 seconds if you don’t have any form of Stun Break.
(edited by Xsorus.2507)
Yea, its a bug, been that way since beta, and they’ve not fixed it
I thought it was a nerf, because it worked in BWE1 and BWE2 back when the ranger condi burst build was kittening everywhere lol, oh that build was so painfully obvious on how to avoid everything it amazes me it was so popular and “OP”. I think that may be why Hunters Call was nerfed too….
That being said, I would love my Split Blade to work with SS because I want to be able to burst bleed people…
Run Rampager Bleed, hehe even without Sharpening Stones, you can instant apply 15 stacks of bleeds
Its rare, but it does happen.
Lol yeah I’ve done this in PvP before, it’s great xD, and then with sharpening stones it’d be 20… Probably why it was nerfed…
You can easily hit 25 now without sharpening stone
But yea, If sharpening stone did work that way, My rampager build could pop people with instant 20 stacks with just splitblade
Yea, been doing this build for a while, I’ve tried it Rabid and it works alright, but I find that like most builds without healing power, I’m probably going to die anyway even with toughness
So I run with Rampager Gear, its glassy as hell, but its 60% crit chance base and I can get the bleeds up even faster cause of the higher crit chance.
Also I tend to go 30/20/20 Mainly cause I like having 1500 Range Longbow for Barrage applying a ton of bleeds.
But yea, you’re right about catching people off guard, I do it all the time..I’ve even beaten a few people in duels who I honestly shouldn’t have because they didn’t expect to have an instant stack of 25 bleeds on themselves
Honestly though, if a bunch of the zerging rangers started running this build It’d get nerfed very quickly.
I’d love to see a 3 Rampager Ranger/2 Spirit Ranger Combo for zerging also…. really make people cry
Yea, its a bug, been that way since beta, and they’ve not fixed it
I thought it was a nerf, because it worked in BWE1 and BWE2 back when the ranger condi burst build was kittening everywhere lol, oh that build was so painfully obvious on how to avoid everything it amazes me it was so popular and “OP”. I think that may be why Hunters Call was nerfed too….
That being said, I would love my Split Blade to work with SS because I want to be able to burst bleed people…
Run Rampager Bleed, hehe even without Sharpening Stones, you can instant apply 15 stacks of bleeds
Its rare, but it does happen.
My old TB1 video was with berserker gear, the second video was a combination of PVT/Knights gear
It could work with all the updates now, just to pop someone in the face wtih Maul
I like the part where killing Spirits is hard, and a certain player doesn’t want to waste time with it.
Oh how I miss the days of Dark Age of Camelot, where a single theurgist could spam a crap ton of pets at people, and the way you countered it was to clear the pets then kill the Theurgist.
Those days are long gone though.. Now its “Please Anet, these spirit pets that die in 3 hits are just to difficult for me to clear with aoe’s”
I got bored:
Sylvari: Grasping vines, entangle, runes of the grove. AKA the super troll.
Human: Signet of Renewal, Empathic Bond, Healing Spring, Prayer to Kormir, runes of Lyssa. AKA the anti condi.
Asura: zerker, LB/GS, boar/wolf, technobabble. AKA the stunlock (I would kill to have technobabble on my ranger to try this!).
Charr: tanky, LR, runes of the adventure, energy sigils, hidden pistol. AKA perma evade (s/d s/d if you want to live up to the name).
Norn (I do this): zerker -> signet buffs -> snow leopard -> 14k crits from invis at 4500 range that is a kd. AKA the one shot.
Trust me, technobabble is good, But you don’t want Zerker gear, cause you die really fast, and its generally SB/GS for the stun chain
I actually found Clerics armor to be the best set, as you’re kind of a mini bunker.
This is my last TB video, I was going to work on another, but I just don’t feel like soloing much anymore.
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