Guild Wars 2

So here’s the problem with condition builds. To fight against them, you require multiple, if not all condition removals available to beat them. I have never played condition necromancer because I refuse to, but I feel forced to take Well of Power, Shrouded Removal, Deathly Swarm, Putrid Mark and Consume Conditions to beat condition builds, which it does. I can spam condition removal all day.

Now, when I fight a POWER build? I have to play skillfully. I have to avoid their attacks and time skills properly. I don’t have to take every source of protection, weakness, vigor and blind available to deal with them. I am a necromancer who can only use a sigil of energy for an extra dodge. That is enough to be able to fight power builds.

That is the problem. You require every condition removal there is to fight condition builds. You don’t require every source of protection, weakness, vigor and blind to fight power builds.

Condition spam is over the top. Nerf the spam and then nerf the amount of removals so that lesser condition classes can become viable.

I made the biggest norn engi possible and I get focused a lot lol. I made celestial though, so I’m running 2 invulns, stealths, bomb kit and elixir gun though so I don’t get focused down if I have those.

Imagine engineers had no kits at all. Suddenly, not having weapon swap seems ridiculous. Elementalists don’t need weapon swap because of their class mechanic where each attunement = 5 skills per attunement. Engineers only have 4 abilities with their “class mechanic” and most of these abilities are bad. Rocket just does damage, nothing else. Throw Wrench does damage, nothing else.

Finished another guild video yesterday. Enjoy
http://youtu.be/WKEWvkL5Q9g

I wouldn’t use sceptre if I were you. The day you fight someone who presses A and D (strafing) over and over, you will regret making a sceptre guardian.

I FINALLY fought one about a week ago and thought… “I wonder if this still works.” Yep, it still works. I felt really bad about it since he eventually just left the fight entirely.

Re-uploaded our guild video #1 with Necromancer PoV.
http://youtu.be/vleZUqNFLXo

Did you know that necromancer is a type of mancer?

Eg. Pyromancer or aquamancer.

True story.

I was thinking of some changes for flamethrower and I pretty much came to the conclusion that you can’t buff the damage of flame jet. You either have to buff it a tiny bit so it isn’t overpowered, which means it’s still lacklustre, or you buff it a lot and it becomes overpowered.

Flame jet needs utility instead of increased damage IMO.

For the Juggernaut trait, I was thinking:

- Remove: Increased toughness effect.
- Remove: Might gain every 3s.
- Add: Critical hits with flamethrower have a 10% chance to grant 1s of stability and 10s of might.

That would be a real juggernaut, IMO, and would allow for front line engineers to be possible. The critical hit requirement would keep it from becoming permanent stability and would force builds to have less survivability in order to have stability.

For the deadly mixture trait, I was thinking either:

- Remove: Increased damage effect for flamethrower and elixir gun.
- Add: Flame Jet and Acid Bomb have a 10% chance to remove 1 boon per hit.

Or

- Remove: Increased damage effect for flamethrower and elixir gun.
- Add: Flame Jet and Acid Bomb have a 10% chance per condition on the opponent to remove 1 boon per hit.

Makes sense with the trait name and Acid Bomb following the same path as Acidic Elixirs. Flame Jet could become a potentially very good source of boon removal as front line engineers, but the trade-off is that you’re in the front lines. The current +15% damage boost just feels like it was a placeholder…

Those are my ideas. But… chances are that the devs will just change targets from 3 to 5 or something.

Let’s try thinking about it.

Who would win? A typical zerg of 20 consisting mostly of GWEN or a condition+healing (many condition builds can incorporate aoe healing) composition zerg of 20? Probably consisting of many engineers and necromancers. Note that condition builds are often tanky and have ways to remove boons. Also note that yes, the main condition classes lack stability, but they have ridiculous aoe condition spam with grenades, bombs, wells, marks, etc.

It would be interesting to see, really. Poison should, logically, affect the GWEN zergs healing as well.

Necromancers do boon ripping in zergs very poorly, it’s just well of corruption, really. Engineers actually have better zerg boon stripping potential because mine field is only a 20s cooldown.

Literally the only thing necromancers bring to zergs is wells, marks and plague. Engineer has about the same amount of stability that necromancer has. Surely engineer has better aoe spam than a necromancer for zergs?

I can’t decide between two builds for my engineer. I’d prefer to use flamethrower and elixirs but flamethrower is rather weak. If it gets buffed one day, what would the devs do to it given their track record? What were the previous buffs to flamethrower?

It’s not a useless trait. Every single class has projectiles on every single build (no matter what, I think) and a lot of them are deadly when reflected.

The trait destroys ranger spammers completely, it’s actually a really good counter against engineers because almost all of their skills are projectiles, it counters necromancers life blast and lich form. Many many uses.

I just don’t like the delay the shield has when activating.

Protects player as well and it seems to work like feedback. It reflects even if opponents are inside of the shield.

I can’t seem to beat them. I’ve foughten 2 good ones since I’ve seriously started playing engi and I was totally dominated by the first one because he used Rampage As One for 20s of stability.

I’ve using elixirs/flamethrower 2/6/0/6/0 build so I do have condition removal but it doesn’t feel like I have enough, not after getting 3k+ hours on necromancer anyway. I have excess condition removal on there but feel forced to take excess of it on any class because the ridiculous strength of conditions on tanky builds.

I run full knights gear but am using strength runes. Should I switch to hoelbrak? Would that make much difference?

The reflection trait is the only reason to ever use them IMO.

Canceling it just to use other skills just means that the skill is too weak and needs buffed, really.

Just like pistol whip and blurred frenzy.

It hardly does enough damage to compensate for standing still for 2.5 seconds and receiving damage from others while doing it.

Just stand on top of marks when fighting thieves. Especially when they stealth, just stand on reaper’s mark.

Actually, berserker stance duration needs to be nerfed and longbow needs to work the same as other burst skills with Cleansing Ire.

Then, make other abilities/traits viable. Warrior complete.

Warrior fits all that btw

Please make reflection not have a delay when placing turrets, thanks.

Not a useful trait when the 1s delay causes the reflection to appear after the moment that you needed it.

I give you a 6/10 because you are calling yourself a wolf. You’re a cat!

Names Charrnivore, a cavalier warrior with high precision. Mess with me and I’ll tear you apart limb from limb.

Annoying your teammates is a huge boost that people are overlooking lol.

To make a fair comment, guardian sword is better from a pvp perspective. Though the only real reason is that it teleports instead of leaps and it can destroy projectiles.

But a warriors shield is superior than the guardians and the warriors shield can reflect projectiles if traited.

But to be even fairer, DPS guardians drop like a rock while warriors don’t.

Turrets are actually the only balanced AI type skills in the game. Spirit weapons aren’t because they are actually useless, which isn’t balanced.

It’s like, no one reads or acknowledges when a totally reasonable response is made.

The counter to “lich form auto attacks” is reflection. Don’t have it? Use blocks, blinds, evades, invulnerabilities or boon strips and CC. Don’t have any of that, somehow? Use protection or weakness to take less damage from it. Don’t have any of the above? Well, did you actually set your traits up or equip skills?

Any other excuse just means you picked paper and he picked flamethrower.

Btw, strafes don’t avoid lich form auto attacks. It’s called not moving, which automatically turns your character in their direction to hit them regardless. Works with all skills, not just lich form.

I get good laughs when I fight people that think they’re epic pro who strafe and circle around me while I’m in lich form or trying to hit them with life blast, thinking they have everything all figured out.

Ok thanks. Rather not do the math since the time it takes to math would = less exp anyway lol.

So I have enough things to max out experience boosts from kills.

Where should I go?

I wonder what the counter to “lich auto attacks” is…? I wonder if it’s… reflection?

This is a learn to play issue.

There are only 2 things you need to watch out for as a condi engi fighting a condi necro. Staff 4 and dagger 4. That’s it. Count on them using those skills when you spike them with conditions and try blocking pre-emptively. Or reflect dagger 4.

Aegis would play out amazingly, actually :o
It would be fun to use too.

Basically ranger is balanced in the area of AOE spam unlike other classes.

Spamming AOE’s on zergs and getting hurt from retaliation isn’t an issue. I made an engi and threw grenades into a zerg and my first thought was, “This is balanced, why are people complaining?” You shouldn’t be able to spam lol.

I posted this before to someone and I’ll post it again.

TL;DR:
The issue with necromancers isn’t Foot in the Grave or Near to Death. It’s lack of alternative options for other builds’ survivability.

Zefrost:

Maybe you have a point with Near to Death being the real build defining trait, instead of Near to Death, because that’s kind of true. But let’s say Foot in the Grave and Near to Death swapped places… then every necromancer would take it no matter what their build.

People claim it not to be worth 6 points into Soul Reaping because then they can’t take it without that totally messing with the build that they want (build that has everything like a warrior). Contrary to popular belief, increased life force, increased critical damage and spectral armor are really useful.

Technically, Near to Death being moved to grandmaster and Foot in the Grave to master would not affect any builds using those traits because they all go 6 into Soul Reaping anyway. However, then you make every build have to have 4 into Soul Reaping for stability to stay competitive even if it doesn’t synergize with anything in their build.

Okay, another scenario. Let’s say Near to Death was deleted entirely and Foot in The Grave remained where it is. Would that solve your issues as a necromancer? No, because Soul Reaping doesn’t fit your build.

Okay, let’s say the stability was buffed another 1 or 2 seconds to be 4 or 5 seconds long (which would never be done because then you could have almost permanent stability since higher numbers increase more with boon duration). Would that solve your issues as a necromancer? No, because Soul Reaping doesn’t fit your build.

Let’s say, every shroud dancing trait was buffed and Near to Death was deleted completely. Weakening Shroud became 5s of weakness, Spiteful Spirit became 5s of retaliation, Deathly Invigoration still sucked (lol), Shrouded Removal became 2 conditions removed, Foot in the Grave became 5s of stability and was even moved down to master tier for some reason. Does THAT solve your issues as a necromancer? No, that doesn’t fit your build… but you adapt and change it: Then you create the new dagger/dagger elementalist build in necromancer form which everyone has to take to stay competitive.

Is Near to Death really nerfing every trait so bad? Are 3s durations of boons/conditions/etc. really not good enough/bad? Of course not. The only trait that was even “nerfed” was Weakening Shroud and that is simply because arenanet doesn’t live on the same planet that we do. If you think Foot in the Grave is a bad trait and is only good for stomping, it’s because you haven’t hit the skillcap.

Moving Foot in the Grave to master will not solve any problems at all. If you aren’t taking Near to Death, then you aren’t building for traits like this and it doesn’t affect you whatsoever. It doesn’t affect your condition build that you can’t take FitG, it doesn’t affect your minion builds and it doesn’t affect your well builds – you aren’t building for it so this trait shouldn’t even be on your mind.

The only reason necromancers complain about FitG and Near to Death is because they get focused/CC’d to death and want ways to defend against it. That’s what necromancers need – build diversity. Alternative ways other than FitG to defend against focus fire and CC. It’s silly to attack Near to Death as holding necromancers back when it’s simply a different build type.

One alternative way to survive focus fire/CC that comes to mind, would be the Blood Magic tree if it didn’t suck. Or Holy Sanctuary if it didn’t suck. More access to protection would help as well. Ritual of Protection isn’t a very good trait itself.

Boon removal and chill – Elementalist’s weakness.

It’s balanced.

Maybe you have a point with Near to Death being the real build defining trait, instead of Near to Death, because that’s kind of true. But let’s say Foot in the Grave and Near to Death swapped places… then every necromancer would take it no matter what their build.

People claim it not to be worth 6 points into Soul Reaping because then they can’t take it without that totally messing with the build that they want (build that has everything like a warrior). Contrary to popular belief, increased life force, increased critical damage and spectral armor are really useful.

Technically, Near to Death being moved to grandmaster and Foot in the Grave to master would not affect any builds using those traits because they all go 6 into Soul Reaping anyway. However, then you make every build have to have 4 into Soul Reaping for stability to stay competitive even if it doesn’t synergize with anything in their build.

Okay, another scenario. Let’s say Near to Death was deleted entirely and Foot in The Grave remained where it is. Would that solve your issues as a necromancer? No, because Soul Reaping doesn’t fit your build.

Okay, let’s say the stability was buffed another 1 or 2 seconds to be 4 or 5 seconds long (which would never be done because then you could have almost permanent stability since higher numbers increase more with boon duration). Would that solve your issues as a necromancer? No, because Soul Reaping doesn’t fit your build.

Let’s say, every shroud dancing trait was buffed and Near to Death was deleted completely. Weakening Shroud became 5s of weakness, Spiteful Spirit became 5s of retaliation, Deathly Invigoration still sucked (lol), Shrouded Removal became 2 conditions removed, Foot in the Grave became 5s of stability and was even moved down to master tier for some reason. Does THAT solve your issues as a necromancer? No, that doesn’t fit your build… but you adapt and change it: Then you create the new dagger/dagger elementalist build in necromancer form which everyone has to take to stay competitive.

Is Near to Death really nerfing every trait so bad? Are 3s durations of boons/conditions/etc. really not good enough/bad? Of course not. The only trait that was even “nerfed” was Weakening Shroud and that is simply because arenanet doesn’t live on the same planet that we do.

Moving Foot in the Grave to master will not solve any problems at all. If you aren’t taking Near to Death, then you aren’t building for traits like this and it doesn’t affect you whatsoever. It doesn’t affect your condition build that you can’t take FitG, it doesn’t affect your minion builds and it doesn’t affect your well builds – you aren’t building for it so this trait shouldn’t even be on your mind.

The only reason necromancers complain about FitG and Near to Death is because they get focused/CC’d to death and want ways to defend against it. That’s what necromancers need – build diversity. Alternative ways other than FitG to defend against focus fire and CC. It’s silly to attack Near to Death as holding necromancers back when it’s simply a different build type.

One alternative way to survive focus fire/CC that comes to mind, would be the Blood Magic tree if it didn’t suck. Or Holy Sanctuary if it didn’t suck. More access to protection would help as well. Ritual of Protection isn’t a very good trait itself.

Well said.

Warrior should have stayed weak to conditions and strong against power while necromancer remains the opposite. If the balance philosophies were actually true then perhaps we would see balance.

The results for Foot in the Grave are hilarious. The skill cap has clearly not been met by many players lol. That trait is amazing. I’ve used it for over 2000 hours since release and have never seriously used any other builds without it, other than experimenting or playing around with other builds.

This trait, along with the elementalist’s trait Rock Solid are the highest skill cap stabilities in the game and also have the highest total uptime. They function the same as any long lasting stability but you have to use it skillfully. Most long lasting stability are really just going to waste because you’re not being CC’d for 8 or more seconds straight. All you need is those few precious seconds of stability for it to do it’s job.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Just thought id go through all active damage avoidance in the game and i decided to add cleave aswell.

Cleave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleave

Guardian – 4 weapons
Warrior – 5 weapons
Engi – 1 Kit
Ranger – 2 weapons + 1 pet type
Thief – 1 weapon
Ele – 1 weapon + 1 conjure
Mesmer – 1 weapon
Necro – 0

Active Defence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endurance

Guardian – 5 Projectile block/reflects, 6 Blocks, 1 Invuln, 0 Evades, 2 endurance regen 14 active defence options
Shield of Absorption, Zealots Defence, Wall of Reflect, Shield of the Avenger, Sanctuary, Protector's Strike, Shield of Wrath, Shelter, Retreat, Virtue of Courage, Communal Defences, Renewed Focus, Vigorous Precision, Save Yourselves

Warrior – 1 reflect, 3 Blocks, 4 Invulns, 1 Evade, 5 endurance regen
14 active defence options (16 if you count 3 reflects)
Missile Deflection (3 blocks), Counterblow, Riposte, Shield Stance ,Defy Pain ,Defiant Stance , Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, Whirlwind Attack ,Quick Breathing ,Vigorous Focus, Call to Arms, Signet of Stamina, Building Momentum

Engi – 4 Projectile block/reflects, 2 Blocks, 2 Invulns, 0 Evades, 7 endurance regen
15 active defence options (20 if you count turret reflects)
Fortified Turrets (6 turrets), Magnetic Shield, Elixir U, Air Blast, Static Shield, Gear Shield, Self Regulating Defences, Elixir S, Invigorating Speed, Gadgeteer, Experimental Turrets, Elixir H, Elixir R, Adrenal Implant, Adrenaline Pump

Ranger – 1 reflect, 1 Block, 1 Invuln, 6 Evades, 5 endurance regen
14 active defence options
Whirling Defence, Counterattack, Signet of the Beastmaster, Signet of Stone, Lightning Reflexes, Power Stab, Hornet Sting, Serpents Strike, Stalkers Strike, Quick Shot, Lightning Reflexes, Primal Reflexes, Vigorous Renewal, Vigorous Training, Natural Vigor

Thief – 2 Projectile block/reflects, 0 Blocks, 1 Invuln, 6 Evades, 5 endurance regen
14 active defence options
Dagger Storm, Smokescreen, Drink (Steal), Disabling Shot, Flanking Strike, Pistol Whip, Death Blossom, Withdraw, Roll for Initiative, Bountiful Theft, Vigorous Recovery, Signet of Agility, Wild Strike, Feline Grace

Ele – 4 Projectile block/reflects, 3 Blocks, 3 Invulns, 2 Evades, 6 endurance regen
18 active defence options
Magnetic Aura, Magnetic Wave, Swirling Winds, Ring of Earth, Arcane Shield, Final Shielding, Stone Sheath, Mist Form, Obsidian Flesh, Fortify, Burning Retreat, Updraft, Phoenix, Renewing Stamina, Soothing Disruption, Vigorous Scepter, Zephyrs Focus, Arcane Energy

Mesmer – 6 Projectile block/reflects, 2 Blocks, 3 Invulns, 1 Evade , 2 endurance regen 14 active defence options (18 if you count all signet invulns)
Phantasmal Warden, Temportal Curtain, Mirror, Feedback, Mimic, Masterful Reflection, Illusionary Counter, Illusionary Riposte, Distortion, Blurred Inscriptions (5 signets), Triumphant Distortion, Blurred Frenzy, Critical Infusion, Vigorous Revelation

Necro – 1 active defence option
Deathshroud!

That’s actually really depressing to read when it’s written that way lol. (PS you forgot about stealth which IMO counts as well lol)

I was very disappointed when the recent balance changes didn’t make condition guardians good. I had recently finished making one to 80 because I had plans to make it condition based since I had no condition based class yet and wanted something different than necromancer. Now it just sits ungeared and unused since I had tomed it to 80.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

“..But as the game has went on, conditions have increased and condition removal has increased along with it. Just as that increased over time, so have the damage and defensive abilities for every class.”

Every condition has had its stacks lessened, not increased. Poison duration has been reduced on all professions.
With changes to axe, longbow, hammer, greatsword, dagger, phantasms, nades, quickness nerf, damage coefficients being lessened, all professions power damage has been reduced.

This has all been documented in each of the update descriptions. No weapon has had more condition stacks increased or more power added.

Just say’n. You’ve made a statement that best fits your believe’s, but the facts of that statement are incorrect.

Immobilize stacking was added, torment was added, conditions were added to skills that previously didn’t have any and cooldowns have been lowered on many skills.

For condition removal, the biggest game breakers that come to mind are berserker’s stance and cleansing ire. Then there’s sigil of generosity which is a passive transfer with no counterplay, there’s diamond skin and condition immunity which is a WvW thing.

As for power builds, we have double sigils now, some sigils were buffed a lot, might stacking, passive bonuses have been raised across the board (sigils, traits, etc.), every rune in the game has been buffed and we have new traits. Some new traits aren’t great, but some are and they are condition and power based.

The ferocity change didn’t really do a thing with all of the other buffs that have happened. Healing abilities have also been buffed with these changes but there is too much lack of counterplay to survive focus fire as a necromancer.

Before you laugh, think about it first.

What is the bottom line with all of the necromancer complaints?:
That necromancers get focused and can’t do anything about it, they can’t escape fights and are weak against CC.

No one is complaining about their boon removal, their high access to weakness or their high access to poison. No one complains about Lich Form which is the most powerful offensive skill in the game. No one complains about their unblockable skills. There are barely even any complaints about Terror anymore.

Why are there so few complaints about necromancers being too strong as opposed to them being too weak?

Because the other classes are too strong. Necromancers are in the “balanced” state that warriors were a long time ago before hambow, cleansing ire, stances and all of the other power creep. The only complaints that there is are about AOE spam, conditions and condition removal. But that is a game wide phenomenon that does not just refer to necromancers.

Who else are you going to focus other than a necromancer? A thief? I don’t even need to explain that one. A warrior, with all of their invulnerability and over 2000 range of runaway skills? Are you going to focus an elementalist? They will surely just run away and heal. Even if you do get them down, they have mist form. You could try focusing a ranger, but if it’s a ranger built to survive, then he will just spam all of the evades that he has to survive, which is a lot.

The list goes on…

In theory, necromancers should actually be nerfed because of their access to poison, weakness and other condition spam. But as the game has went on, conditions have increased and condition removal has increased along with it. Just as that increased over time, so have the damage and defensive abilities for every class.

What do people complain about from other classes?:
Their mobility, immunity and survivability.

Think you’re going to poison that warrior to counter his healing signet? Good luck with that. Oh, you just applied weakness to that hammer warrior to stop him from destroying you? Sorry! He has immunity to conditions! Feared that elementalist so that you can go on the offensive? Diamond Skin! Knocked that thief out of his Shadow Refuge? He just teleported away so it doesn’t matter.

Think you’re going to make a support necromancer to help allies? Why? You’re going to be the one who’s focused, not them.

What I’m trying to get at is that the necromancer doesn’t need buffs.
Other than making useless traits useful and increasing build diversity, every class needs nerfs.

So can you have invincible clones using the immunity boon in edge of the mists? Or kodans?

You can’t give the necromancer more stability when CC is its designed weakness. Necromancers just need more blinds, weakness and ways to generate life force against multiple opponents.

Oh yeah, and the big one, for siphoning to not suck.

Rym.1469:

I don’t know where you play, but there are some Necros, including me, who use the Axe both in tPvP and WvW roaming.
Sure, the weapon may not be perfect, but it has it’s use for me.

Not saying there are none, but there certainly are very few. The only necromancers I ever seem to fight are either condition or minion based. I can recall only one necromancer that I fought who used dagger mainhand and I only really remember because he had incinerator.

Latest Video
Necromancer Roaming Video #3 WvW

Old Videos
Necromancer Roaming Video #1 WvW
Necromancer Roaming Video #2 WvW
Necromancer VS Guardian
Storm Machine Guild Video #1 WvW
Storm Machine Guild Video #2 WvW

Enjoy!