Guild Wars 2

Malchior.5732:

Zenith.7301:

Revenant’s problems are in PvE and spvp, not WvW.

Yea, okay, I don’t really play WvW so I’ll take your word for it I mean you must know what you’re talking about…

Zenith.7301:

If you’re using hammer for roaming you’re doing it wrong anyways. And revenant shouldn’t be roaming after the nerfs made shiro and rev heals all but useless.

But you said Revenant was strong in WvW!
I think roaming is a part of that, no? Arguably the only fun part for a lot of people.

I know what you meant, but if Revenant is only good in blob vs blob, then I think the class does suffer in WvW to some extent.

Roaming in WvW is about as important as duels are in spvp. Fun for some people, but not the objective of the game format.

The match ups are won by zergs taking up and defending objectives. Roamers have a marginal impact on that on any highly populated and active server.

Burtnik.5218:

Malchior.5732:

Rangerdeity.5847:

Zenith.7301:

Rangerdeity.5847:

Justine.6351:

I came from druid to Herald because hammer damage is hilarious in comparison to rangers longbow. But maybe that isn’t your cup of tea?

https://youtu.be/iCd3jw2ovI4

well this is a problem with rangers long bow it has been nerfed into the ground. i mean honestly its big nasty almighty 5 is an aoe cripple with kitten tier damage. i mean it should be a weaker version of meteor storm but nah its just an aoe cripple with a long cast time and moderate to long CD.

You also forgot the part where the ranger loses half his HP to retaliation from Barrage while the people he cast Barrage on barely lose 20% of their health at best.

Shhhhhh ranger is amazing what are you talking about their signature weapons are amazing and undeniable. now put that axe away you kitten.

tfw you realize warriors guardians and thief all have better bow skills than ranger.

- Ranger:
a member of a body of armed men, in particular.

Seems fine to me. The bow is a classic, but it’s not really what defines a ranger if we use the definition.
Also, Ranger has the most wanted healer build and one of the best condi builds in the game right now (with a really easy rotation). I think it’s fine that they don’t have the best ranged weapon in terms of DPS even if it’s iconic.

Aragorn was a ranger. And id take longbow over this crap hammer anyday anytime. What to not love? Low cd stealth? Low cd knock? Low cd channeled burst that track people in stealth? Literally the only thing which sux on lb is 5, nothing else. Pre hot i enjoyed lb a lot, espesially at top of sm and eotm (for obvious reason).

lol, please.

All those lb attacks are hitting a single target or a couple of ones in a line. And none of them are critting people for 6k+ in a zerg let alone landing 12k coalesce of ruin on multiple people or an aoe knockdown, on top of having access to an evade nuke and a projectile destruction wall.

Don’t diss on a crappy one note roaming class that’s forced to go healbot if it wants to zerg or do GvG over revenant who’s absolutely wanted in WvW over a ranger for teamfighting ANY DAY.

Revenant’s problems are in PvE and spvp, not WvW.

If you’re using hammer for roaming you’re doing it wrong anyways. And revenant shouldn’t be roaming after the nerfs made shiro and rev heals all but useless.

Cynz.9437:

Zenith.7301:

Cynz.9437:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Cynz.9437:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

buy rings for pristine fractal relics. Salvage. Profit. Problem solved.

@ Cynz, do dialy CM challenge mode, you get 1 salvage garanteed.

takes too long with bad groups and there is no guarantee not to get one

So, maybe find a guild where other players who don’t suck are interested in this, at roughly the same time? Create one, if necessary. You can’t be the /only/ person who feels like that, yo.

I play a thief, show me a guild would want a thief in CM runs…. :|

Um…..it’s one of the best classes to carry with.

Oh don’t get me wrong, i love my thief and i think i am doing fairly well (considering i am usually last person to die and often end up carrying orb phase on last boss) however…. it is just like with raids – ppl want necros and druids in fractals, rest don’t need to apply.

I join every single T4 fractal on my revenant, probably one of the least wanted classes currently in the game.

T4 fractals are a joke. Occasionally you get the idiot who only wants viper condi classes and no might stacker for the group, but those are rare.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Zenith.7301:

To be honest, I don’t like being forced to play nice with Charr and forget about Ascalon.

I’d love to be from the Gwen school of kill them all and take Ascalon back.

Gwen the elder was a miserable person (with cause, the ‘best’ or perhaps the worst). I’m surprised Thack the Elder stuck with her long enough to let her less vitriolic self come through. Good thing for the future of humans in Tyria, too. Life with the charr seems preferably to extinction.

Nah, my hero roundly wiped them out in droves. Would have been happy to oblige and carry out the genocide of the Charr with my ritualist

Cynz.9437:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Cynz.9437:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

buy rings for pristine fractal relics. Salvage. Profit. Problem solved.

@ Cynz, do dialy CM challenge mode, you get 1 salvage garanteed.

takes too long with bad groups and there is no guarantee not to get one

So, maybe find a guild where other players who don’t suck are interested in this, at roughly the same time? Create one, if necessary. You can’t be the /only/ person who feels like that, yo.

I play a thief, show me a guild would want a thief in CM runs…. :|

Um…..it’s one of the best classes to carry with.

To be honest, I don’t like being forced to play nice with Charr and forget about Ascalon.

I’d love to be from the Gwen school of kill them all and take Ascalon back.

They should make the kitten things stack to 250.

Everything in these late patches have added to inventory issues. New map currency that can’t be deposited….

And please, implement sort function for bank tabs already.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Gwaihir.1745:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

endure pain
4 seconds
takes damage from conditions, can die to conditions

berserker stance
pulses resistance every 3 seconds for 8 seconds,
that means
0s = 3 seconds
3s = 3 seconds
6s = 3 seconds

that’s 9 seconds of resistance, which can be corrupted into chill for 3 times over a 6 seconds duration.

as for the stability pulse in berserk mode, that is 1 stack every 3 seconds, berserk mode last for 10 seconds.

able to dish out more than 1 cc skill within the 3 second window will still cc the warrior.

You conveniently forgot to add the traited ep for 2xep, and added duration from trait. Boon corrupts aren’t a thing yet in most classes. If you use 2 cc’s in 3s you’re blowing cooldowns for what most likely wont be a kill because the passive will kick in.

who takes that other trait anyway ?
if they dun take cleansing ire they will die horribly to conditions.

Or kill the condi class by the time berserker stance wears off…..

Warrior pretty much hardcounters any power spec that isn’t a skilled thief.

He’s got sustain and more powerful immunities that he can pair with his offense while your blocks stop your damage.

More importantly, warrior has a metric ton of short cd CC to land his bursts, which not only heal him substantially on top of his already strong healing from healing signet.

He’s got headbutt, shield bash, and mace primal, assuming he doesn’t even take bull’s charge or bolas on top of that.

Eventually you’ll eat a full 100 blades and die, while his greatsword whirlwind is on a low cd and is chunking you for a good 6k+ in between autos. He has higher base health than you so he can absorb burst better than you.

Warrior shield is a flat out superior version of revenant shield, with their block skill allowing them to move while your shield roots you in place.

Your mobile block skill is on offhand sword and unlike warrior, because you sacrifice energy to use weaponskills as well, you also sacrifice damage while the warrior sacrifices none as his operates off just a cooldown (and funny thing is revenant block still has a cooldown on top of energy cost).

Rangerdeity.5847:

Justine.6351:

I came from druid to Herald because hammer damage is hilarious in comparison to rangers longbow. But maybe that isn’t your cup of tea?

https://youtu.be/iCd3jw2ovI4

well this is a problem with rangers long bow it has been nerfed into the ground. i mean honestly its big nasty almighty 5 is an aoe cripple with kitten tier damage. i mean it should be a weaker version of meteor storm but nah its just an aoe cripple with a long cast time and moderate to long CD.

You also forgot the part where the ranger loses half his HP to retaliation from Barrage while the people he cast Barrage on barely lose 20% of their health at best.

Abelisk.4527:

I can’t remember the last time I had Grace of the Land in effect. Most Druids don’t run Skirmishing either. I can’t say since I don’t play Ranger.

You’re missing a huge part of Ventari. It can heal massively while CC’d. Stability is important since your weapons provide blocks and evades, but you can still heal yourself while CC’d.

The common myth is there won’t be enough energy to use weapon skills etc. That is completely false. While using Natural Harmony there is a wind up time before its cast. Your energy fills up by about 5% while it’s casting.

Ventari’s Will heals pretty modestly also, and it’s very cheap. It moves quickly towards your target so it’s almost guaranteed to heal your ally who is likely mobile.

“Tempest is mobile” and so is Ventari. I constantly kite enemies while healing allies with the tablet. It gets easier once you’re accustomed to it.

A neat trick for landing Natural Harmony on your opponents is to cast it first, but right as you start to cast it use Ventari’s Will to move it to your ally.

Ventari like most Rev builds has a high skill cap. And you might say Tempest grants boons, but so does Ventari’s Will and Facet of Nature. Ventari’s applies regen and protection everytime it moves (which is very often), and Facet of Nature activated every 30 seconds which applies 5 total boons (might, fury, protection, regeneration, swiftness).

Don’t forget Glint stance too. That is a boonshare machine.

Then Ventari has a projectile denial bubble used to secure revives/stomps and to block bursts. It gradually uses energy and can easily be cancelled any time.

I’ve played with Ventari for quite a while now and it’s a lot more complex on the inside than on the surface. It’s also grossly underestimated. Took it to a dueling server and a guy started trolling me with his burn guard build because he couldn’t kill me.

Natural Harmony is a 20 energy cost, which means it takes 4 seconds of full upticks to cast another, and alacrity is only applied for 3 seconds and natural a harmony has a delayed application of 1 seconds. 3/5 seconds i 60% uptime of alacrity.

And that’s assuming you dedicate all your energy to Natural Harmony, which means casting nothing else. You use any weaponskill, you delay your next Natural Harmony by 2 seconds.

You move ventari tablet, that’s a 1 second delay to using your natural harmony again.

If you switch to Glint, that’s 10 seconds of not healing or giving alacrity just so you can slap on some boons, and if you went ventari rev you’re useless in glint besides the boons because you do garbage DPS.

Tempest heals move with the ele automatically. Ventari rev sacrifices to move the tablet to use a heal because every single skill they use draw from the same limited resource.

It’s like saying a thief can blind and headshot at the same time. Not really, since both headshot and black powder compete for initiative just as revenant skills compete for energy.

It has nothing to do about skill cap, especially when ele is already a high skill cap class given the management of 20 weaponskills with differing cooldowns and being a class with the lowest base ehalth and armor in a frontline and relatively long cd’s on stunbreaks and defensive cd’s like mist form and arcane shield.

Ventari rev is a gimmick that may work in WvW zergs because you can use others as your meat shield to keep focus off you. It works nowhere else, be that PvE or spvp. It brings nothing but healing, and if it wants to do something else such as reflect or give boons it doesn’t heal instead. Multitasking and the energy system don’t go together, you commit to a single task with the current way energy and energy costs are designed.

They don’t even have the manpower to do proper balance patches and instead we need to settle for marginal patches every 6 months with a measly few cooldown decreases and trait tweaks to traits and weapons that nobody uses nor will continue to use with a measly 17% buff.

What makes you think that if they can’t be bothered to balance the game around anything that isn’t spvp, that they would bother to dedicate manpower to adapting raids to fractals?

Just wait for the next xpac and hope they fix the class you wanted to play by then. That’s the standard of their work.

Rangerdeity.5847:

Zenith.7301:

Revenant is a more DPS oriented class. In PvP revenant far outpressures any ranger DPS build, and revenant has aoe damage which is omething ranger sorely lacks, which is why nobody wants rangers for zerg play unless it’s a druid healer.

Ranger is wanted over rev for PvE on TWO conditions:

1- That you play a healer (druid).
2- That you play the ranger condi damage build, which is mainhand axe and torch. If you find that weaponset not to your liking, or you want to use a power build, you are out of options.

and yet as of the recent balance patch in WvW revs have become the best healers outside of arcane water tempest auramancers. they pop 10k heal that pair with regen and protection boons literally every 2 seconds. with infinite access to knockback alacrity and condi clearing and projectile blocking. in PvE it depends if your team is spread out a ranger is good but an ele is probably better but then again spirits are bae.

Um, no. Ventari has raw healing, but it provides neither grace of the land (10% extra damage for affected allies is huge), spotter for 7% extra crit, or the combined condi cleanse and blind of seeds let alone the daze of lunar impact.

As ventari if you’re maintaining alacrity, it’s only 60% uptime, and you can’t cast anything at all to maintain that 60% uptime. So, no, you aren’t doing reflects if you’re doing alacrity.

More importantly, you’re useless to boot because you don’t have the energy to do anything with your weapons worth a kitten .

Tempest healing is mobile and has no wind up delay, and they fart out boons while all you do is heal. Rangers also can use their utilities and elites without cutting into their healing output or boon provision.

I’ll still take a mallyx/glint rev over a ventari any day. Providing resistance to your group is far more important.

In PvE ventari rev is useless, nobody needs a raw healer much like most meta groups don’t even bother with magi druids and make them go DPS stats because you don’t need that much healing unless the group is really bad. In which case you’ll probably fail mechanic checks anyways regardless of how much the rev can heal.

Revenant is a more DPS oriented class. In PvP revenant far outpressures any ranger DPS build, and revenant has aoe damage which is omething ranger sorely lacks, which is why nobody wants rangers for zerg play unless it’s a druid healer.

Ranger in WvW also means, get used to your pet being useless and dead immediately in any teamfight since unlike PvE pets get no aoe protection. They die immediately and go on a 50 sec cd.

Ranger on a tanky build is a better duelist, that’s about it. Revenant is a far superior team fighter for PvP, which is why zergs want them. You give out boons easily, and you are durable in the frontline when built for it. Ranger can’t frontline at all.

Ranger is wanted over rev for PvE on TWO conditions:

1- That you play a healer (druid).
2- That you play the ranger condi damage build, which is mainhand axe and torch. If you find that weaponset not to your liking, or you want to use a power build, you are out of options.

Ranger power build at best does 22k DPS under optimal scenarios. Revenant optimal output is around 30k DPS on a power build.

Ranger condi build easily puts out 36k, but the caveat is that it only applies for stationary targets who sit in your Bonfire aoe.

Ranger condi build is a superior DPS class, but understand that it’s a very limited build with very little aoe outside bonfire and in open world PvE it’s really deficient compared to a power revenant.

Ranger has more mobility for travel than revenant. Staff+greatsword is a lot of mobility, though revenant also has easy access to perma swiftness.

Revenant Hammer>>>>>>>>>Ranger Longbow in PvE as far as ranged weapons go. Rev hammer hits harder, cleaves baseline (rangers have to trait so their arrows hit more than one target), and revenant hammer autoattack does not depend on target distance, only their #2 skill does.

If you play ranger, be prepared to be asked to go druid if they need a healer. That’s the primary reason a group will want you.

And be prepared to deal with the garbage pet, because pets in this game are terrible and don’t scale with food, potions, runes/sigils, or ascended gear upgrades, and the pet swap death penalty if a high end mob chooses to 2 shot your pet is pretty stupid.

It’s already been stated that the chronomancer sacrifices DPS for utility, the problem is your pigheaded insistence out of ignorance for how a revenant plays that it would be any better a choice.

“Couple of seconds”. This shows how clueless you are. At 5 upkeep, which means you aren’t even providing your group with 33% boon duration via facet and thus being even more of a drag on your chronomancer, you are regenning 5 energy per second.

Your short reflect even at 2 seconds drains 8 energy per second, 16 energy you give up or essentially 4 seconds worth of full upkeep to get a single cast of Natural Harmony back, except not even because Natural Harmony has a 1 second delay built on top. That’s 5 seconds built in down time to obtainina a 3s alacrity effectt if you use your reflect. Surge of the mists causes a 4 second delay at full regen for one cast.

Problem being we both know that you start a legend at 50 energy and you’re not going to be able to indefinitely maintain Natural Harmony even at 5 upkeep. You get 2 casts of 6 seconds of alacrity, during which you have 2 seconds worth of regen to build the missing 10 to get your last cast out of the initial bar, that’s 7 seconds of alacrity remaining.

Of those 7 seconds of alacrity, you shave off 4 waiting for 5 upkeep ticks of regen until the next application, which leaves you at 6 when you get your next renewal, after which it shaves down to 2 seconds left of alacrity by the time you get your new 3 second refresh. That gives you merely 1 more cycle for a refresh at 1 second, for 4 seconds and a final refresh of 3, at which point your alacrity uptime drags dramatically. At which point you operate at 3 seconds out of every 5 for alacrity.

That’s a pathetic 60% alacrity uptime after. So around 24 seconds of 100% alacrity after which you drop down to 60% alacrity uptime assuming that’s the only thing you do and you don’t EVER need to reflect, break a CC bar, or move the tablet at 5 energy cost which adds one second of delay to your next alacrity application. That also assumes you don’t need a stunbreak for some reason since the only stunbreak on ventari is a 35 energy cost.

For what, doing similar damage to a chronomancer who can potentially bring more total utility and still the same alacrity?

Don’t make me laugh. You’re better off as a revenant going full DPS and taking up the slot of the 2nd PS warrior with more group DPS contribution since realistic DPS revenant had a 5-6k DPS lead over warrior before the buffs to Jalis hammer, and all you would need is some group comp tweaks to fill the remaining 12 might given a revenant can bring 13 to his 5 man group while in Glint without much effort. The druid could simply swap out the tiger for jungle stalker and alongside mesmer inspiration signet and the spirit trait that gives passive 3 might the gap in might for the DPS slots is more than filled.

Eponet.4829:

Zenith.7301:

Eponet.4829:

Zenith.7301:

Narth.6094:

Alacrity actually opens up a lot of options in combination with the rework to Druid’s grace of the land. These buffs are trying to redistribute alacrity and GoL so that you don’t have to run two mesmers and two druids.

Pretty much, now that GoL affects 10 people you only need to take a single healing druid. Also, now that Time Warp affects 10 people, a single mesmer should be pretty close to being able to supply constant quickness to the party.

They also buffed the scaling of healing power by 180% on the Ventari’s main AoE heal.

I haven’t crunched the numbers yet, but a healing Ventari revenant can replace a druid and give the team alacrity, boon duration, and permanent protection without losing any GoL stacks now. Theoretically, if a mesmer can keep permanent quickness on the whole raid, then this means that this also makes room for another DPS too.

No, you cannot replace a druid/ranger because spirits were not made 10 man and neither was glyph of empowerment.

What you can replace though if the numbers work out such that time warp and Well of Action buffs are enough to allow 1 mesmer to supply 10 people with quickness is the second mesmer. Groups will still want alacrity, but won’t need any more quickness, and even a revenant sitting in ventari will be more useful than a second mesmer when you don’t need them for quickness.

No, it won’t because taking salvation means sacrificing invocation or devastation.

Realistic revenant dps benchmark is 25.4k. Losing Devastation is a 27% damage loss from trait modifiers. Losing Invocation is a 15% damage loss from traits. That’s not including the damage loss of not using jalis or elemental blast.

Rev would drop to around 18-19k DPS in ventari, it’d be no better than a condi druid or condi chrono.

ALACRITY DOES NOT COME FREE. YOU HAVE TO SPEC SALVATION TRAITLINE FOR IT.

Something it would do around the same damage as a condi chronomancer, while providing assassin’s presence and having better alacrity uptime. That sounds like a good trade to me if one mesmer is enough to handle the entire party’s quickness.

I take it that you haven’t played chronomancer much. The ability to do even half decent damage as a condi chronomancer isn’t free either. It means maintaining full pistol phantasms, while chronomancers need shield phantasms in order to maintain permanent alacrity on 5 people, and they also need to sacrifice utility skills, cutting down their support even further in order to take damage signers.

Ventari camping revenant is a much better support than condi chronomancer, which is barely a support at all. Having comparable damage as well just strengthens the case that it has the potential to find a place.

It would not have better alacrity uptime, what the hell are you talking about.

It also lacks reflects (if you are using absorb you ain’t buffing alacrity), it lacks group distortion. It lacks group boon copy, it lacks CC bar damage (GG with surge of the mists draining the energy you need to spam alacrity with).

You only need 2 iavengers for fulltime alacrity. Condi chrono already did same realistic DPS as full DPS rev, so the loss in phantasms make him no less DPS than the whopping lose rev suffers from picking salvation.

Cynz.9437:

Zenith.7301:

OriOri.8724:

Now there’s an idea. I wonder how kittened off thief mains would be if PI couldn’t proc off an interrupted auto attack lol. Probably would be UP at that point but it would be funny to see their reactions to it.

How would it be UP, it’s virtually a free 3-4k damage when someone tries to hill or use any of the other 9 skills on their bar, given how spammable headshot is now that they don’t need to spend initiative to do damage via backstab since autoattacks were buffed.

meanwhile DH AA does as much dmg as PI from 1200 range and everyone is fine with it

It’s a significantly slower projectile with an actual cast time and it doesn’t interrupt….how much trolling are you gonna do?

Eponet.4829:

Zenith.7301:

Narth.6094:

Alacrity actually opens up a lot of options in combination with the rework to Druid’s grace of the land. These buffs are trying to redistribute alacrity and GoL so that you don’t have to run two mesmers and two druids.

Pretty much, now that GoL affects 10 people you only need to take a single healing druid. Also, now that Time Warp affects 10 people, a single mesmer should be pretty close to being able to supply constant quickness to the party.

They also buffed the scaling of healing power by 180% on the Ventari’s main AoE heal.

I haven’t crunched the numbers yet, but a healing Ventari revenant can replace a druid and give the team alacrity, boon duration, and permanent protection without losing any GoL stacks now. Theoretically, if a mesmer can keep permanent quickness on the whole raid, then this means that this also makes room for another DPS too.

No, you cannot replace a druid/ranger because spirits were not made 10 man and neither was glyph of empowerment.

What you can replace though if the numbers work out such that time warp and Well of Action buffs are enough to allow 1 mesmer to supply 10 people with quickness is the second mesmer. Groups will still want alacrity, but won’t need any more quickness, and even a revenant sitting in ventari will be more useful than a second mesmer when you don’t need them for quickness.

No, it won’t because taking salvation means sacrificing invocation or devastation.

Realistic revenant dps benchmark is 25.4k. Losing Devastation is a 27% damage loss from trait modifiers. Losing Invocation is a 15% damage loss from traits. That’s not including the damage loss of not using jalis or elemental blast.

Rev would drop to around 18-19k DPS in ventari, it’d be no better than a condi druid or condi chrono.

ALACRITY DOES NOT COME FREE. YOU HAVE TO SPEC SALVATION TRAITLINE FOR IT.

My opinion is we need an actual dedicated class design and balance dev team that has time to balance the classes.

Instead of waiting 6 months for marginal changes and telling people “we didn’t have time”.

origin.1496:

Keep in mind- Ventari is NOT an elite spec either with access to alacrity now. Perhaps not now, but later, this will be useful with further updates and improvements.

A long stretch. But it is not tied to an elite spec giving it some unique flavor.

It won’t, because the alacrity relies on sitting in ventari, given that if you legend swap that’s 10 seconds of no access to the alacrity generation, and the utility of the new elite spec legend will be exclusive with the active utility of ventari.

Randulf.7614:

It’s not been closed, it was moved to the sticky section at the top. It is annoying when it happens, but it’s technical issue with the forum. Eowin’s advice is sound if you are ever writing anything lengthy.

It IS closed. Looked at the lock in it.

Narth.6094:

Alacrity actually opens up a lot of options in combination with the rework to Druid’s grace of the land. These buffs are trying to redistribute alacrity and GoL so that you don’t have to run two mesmers and two druids.

Pretty much, now that GoL affects 10 people you only need to take a single healing druid. Also, now that Time Warp affects 10 people, a single mesmer should be pretty close to being able to supply constant quickness to the party.

They also buffed the scaling of healing power by 180% on the Ventari’s main AoE heal.

I haven’t crunched the numbers yet, but a healing Ventari revenant can replace a druid and give the team alacrity, boon duration, and permanent protection without losing any GoL stacks now. Theoretically, if a mesmer can keep permanent quickness on the whole raid, then this means that this also makes room for another DPS too.

No, you cannot replace a druid/ranger because spirits were not made 10 man and neither was glyph of empowerment.

They pretty much said warrior banners merit sever load but spirits for some weird, messed up double standard don’t.

These people….

I’m also curious how someone can feel revenant was a strong healer, when its healing is so impractical in PvE that it was never contemplated for that slot.

Moreover, raw healing throughput has never been necessary for even raids. The main reason to bring a druid over just another tempest was because of group damage buffs, not the healing.

Are developers keeping track of how PvE and instanced raids/fractals are actually carried out by the players, or is PvE an afterthought to the priority of spvp balance?

SPVP balance considerations always seem to trump everything else when decisions are made.

Otherwise how do you explain the hamfisted revenant damage output nerfs when revenant wasn’t even the top DPS class at the time? It all originated from spvp complaints and PvE revenants were collateral damage.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

XeonJab.7529:

“Specializing in chronomancy grants mesmers access, through traits and skills, to a new effect called alacrity. " Chronomancers. “Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect.” Chronomancers. So why do revs have alacrity now?

Chronomancer was given Alacrity because it was incredibly thematic and felt within its kit.

From a group content perspective, alacrity is so strong that if no other profession gains access to it then Chronomancers would push others out of groups because it feels necessary. As is, they are likely to remain the best ways to grant alacrity to others.

The game evolves and we decided that keeping this feature exclusive may not be in the best interest of the game as a whole. From a general game perspective, specializations are places where a profession may gain access to features from a different profession.

And yet because Ventari revenant is so mediocre and doesn’t provide quickness alongside alacrity while also sacrificing 27% damage from Devastation traitline or 25% from invocation to take up the Salvation trait removes any point in bringing a revenant anyways.

The changes to revenant do nothing to make it relevant in PvE group content because the group support you gave it is not only impractical with immense opportunity cost, but also outclassed by the alternative.

You seriously need to reconsider the damage nerfs to the autoattack, Unrelenting Assault for PvE only (keep values the same for wvw and spvp). Reconsider Facet of Nature’s nerf in PvE as well; it removed revenant from the meta.

Moreover, revenants are now at the place where they have a far inferior version of initiative, since not only does utility cost energy and now has cooldowns, but weaponskills also have significant energy costs (especially staff) while having cooldowns as well. Energy was supposed to be the foil of Initiative, but for utility instead; that was undone by slapping energy costs onto both weapon skills as well as utilities on top of cooldowns, since the whole point of energy costs for utilities was to limit their usage.

And with no meaningful way to generate/manage energy other than legend swap, revenants barely get to make use of their legend utilities for group support since the energy is going all into the expensive weaponskills and Herald F2 upkeep which is the only thing they offer to a group that isn’t made redundant.

OriOri.8724:

Now there’s an idea. I wonder how kittened off thief mains would be if PI couldn’t proc off an interrupted auto attack lol. Probably would be UP at that point but it would be funny to see their reactions to it.

How would it be UP, it’s virtually a free 3-4k damage when someone tries to hill or use any of the other 9 skills on their bar, given how spammable headshot is now that they don’t need to spend initiative to do damage via backstab since autoattacks were buffed.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Cynz.9437:

Rickster.8752:

400 posts asking for a nerf and nothing arrives. GG anet you really do not listen to your player base. LITERALLY nothing lol

Not every poster here agrees with PI nerf….

This^… The last thing we need is for great bunker busting tools to be nerfed. Nerfing thieves dodges instead was the smart move. Gj anet, I truly have a lot of hope for the game after seeing this patch.

PI doesn’t bust bunkers, it busts everybody.

Bunker busters are things like unblockable and boon steal, not spammable raw damage procs that can trigger on something as simple and essential as autoattacks.

As I said, the DPS slots don’t change, they’ll always be filled by the best DPS classes, so in order to ensure class/build diversity they need to make room for multiple desirable class utilities.

Rev might have a spot as well as necro if we could cut out the extra druid, chrono, and PS warriors.

But they completely failed at that by not extending the spirit, PS might generation, and alacrity well/phantasm caps to 10.

Amineo.8951:

I’m pretty sure Thief is the best DPS now (followed by Engineer) since the big nerf of Meteor Shower (hits 2 times less than before) and Overload air (7% damage nerf), Ele might be on par with DH now (for small targets that is) which hopefully will deliver more love to the other professions.

Yeah, but those are just replacing the DPS slots, not the mirrored utility ones. 2 PS, 2 chronos, 2 druid (spirits still 5 cap).

And since revenant gained kitten all for DPS, as did necro, that hardly changed their position.

Thief was a viable DPS class already anyways and in most practical scenarios for the average player outperformed the average tempest.

Rev and Necro still garbage tier. Power reaper and rev changes are a joke. Guardians got even stronger….

Plus mesmer alacrity wells are still only 5 targets so you’ll need 2 mesmers for the hight time on alacrity.

Spirits, still 5 target cap.

Warrior might generation, still 5 target cap.

Mesmer alacrity provision wells, still 5 target cap.

Phantasmal Avenger 5 target cap.

Eleazar.9478:

Zenith uh gs is a defensive, burst weapon so it’s great for pvp who cares about it being good for Pve, you have sword and offhand axe for that.

Because it’s already good in PvP and their whole sentence was about improving its desirability.

jacksmith.6028:

Blue.1207:

After seeing the patch notes I really can’t find the words to explain the current state of the profession.

Best of those who are willing to stick with it, your resolve is beyond mine.

Good bye Rev.

Rev still good in WvW. Patches didn’t affect much so no help but no harm. Just switch modes!

Rev good in WvW ZERGS. Terrible roaming class.

mulzi.8273:

Zenith.7301:

People don’t use Greatsword because its autoattack is terrible DPS, only better than mainhand axe auto which is the worst auto in the game.

And they did nothing that would make greatsword desirable to use in PvE. Greatsword was already being used in PvP for its mobility/block.

I disagree, at least so far in my limited amounts of testing. In a remorseless build (marks/beast/druid) with hit bash refreshing maul, MoC and AS with quickness from BM, the GS is become extremely deadly and can really pump out the ccs/dps with GS/LB/pet (moa/smoke) and the remorseless traits

However, this is the ranger we are talking about, so i’ll curb my enthuisasm for a bit. I’m sure we’ll see a patch tomorrow by Anet that puts an internal CD on MoC of 10 secs and ups Hit Bash to 30s cd.

lol you must be talking about PvP, because moa does like zero DPS in PvE, I don’t see why you would EVER use a moa or smokescale considering dogs also do terrible DPS.

A refresh on Maul is nothing, it hits for half of what a thief staff auto does.

People don’t use Greatsword because its autoattack is terrible DPS, only better than mainhand axe auto which is the worst auto in the game.

And they did nothing that would make greatsword desirable to use in PvE. Greatsword was already being used in PvP for its mobility/block.

More impractical gimmicks, more shoving revenant into healing power gear that affects a single legend and only the autoattack of a single weapon.

You fixed virtually nothing that’s making power and condition revenant undesirable in PvE and deficient in PvP.

The very least you could have done is revert the nerfs to F2 herald back to 50% and unnerfed the sword auto or UA in PvE only.

Condi hate has always been a phony complaint by power builds who want to 3 shot everything they encounter.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Menyus.4610:

Crinn.7864:

His suggestion isn’t preventing you from interrupting weapon skills. His suggestion just means you can’t get PI procs from weapon skills.

Why would i interrupt his hundred blades if i got nearly nothing for it, to waste 4 initiative, no ty….

Umm, you do get something, you interrupted the hundred blades. As headshot was for years.

You shouldn’t even be interrupting something you can walk out of. You should be interrupting heal skills. You seem like one of those interrupt happy thieves that spam headshot and think you’re some kind of god for doing it on non-critical skills lol

I mean, you literally can dodge though and get behind him while he’s channeling 100b and not take damage while you kill him lol.

Only reason why 100b and Blurred Frenzy work only by stunning/rooting the target before hand.

And why Pistol Whip needs the preceding stun portion to land its damage as it also makes you immobile while casting it.

100b would be completely fine if warrior didn’t have such plentiful access to short cd stuns and those stuns had fair telegraphs.

Doctor.1905:

There a tons of thieves dueling without PI (using EA) and without acro all the time. They aren’t carry trait/traitlines for thieves. The main thing that carries thieves is bounding dodger or unhindered combatant because core thief is the worst core class right now.

lol not even close

I’d rather they remove the damage variance by range from both ranger longbow and mesmer greatsword and just use the max values.

After all, in PvE ele staff still does more DPS than ranger longbow even at max range.

Fireball hits harder than LB auto and cleaves all targets while LB hits a single target.

The change to signet of the hunt would make it totally useless in PvE.

Just change signet of the hunt work like the thief signet which buffs the next 5 attacks for you and pet.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Zenith.7301:

snipples

nope. its the game mode. while it is true that certain classes cannot use dps builds effectively, there will always be a need for bunkers in conquest.

There was a single bunker build at the early beginnings of the game, and that was the guardian. The rest of the classes ran DPS builds by and large.

Now you only have 3 classes that can run DPS builds: thief, warrior, guardian. Necro runs DPS because it doesn’t even have the options of a bunker build as necro survival tools are pretty terrible and don’t scale to number of opponents.

Choppy.4183:

Zenith.7301:

I mean, they nerfed ride the lightning to a 40 sec cd disengage and currently warrior and thief are covering similar distances with far lesser penalties, it’s a joke.

Warrior had all of its movement skills cut by 33% from where they used to be, once they stopped being affected by swiftness.

Warrior’s pretty middle of the pack now in terms of movement, to a large extent because it can’t take advantage of porting up to ledges, etc. Even if you build for speed (running sword instead of axe, mace, etc., running Bull’s Charge), several classes can keep pace depending on build.

Those swiftness changes affected every movement skill that wasn’t a teleport, not just warrior. Guardian GS3 leap was no lesser a casualty of these changes, for example.

I mean, they nerfed ride the lightning to a 40 sec cd disengage and currently warrior and thief are covering similar distances with far lesser penalties, it’s a joke.

Xenesis.6389:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Still not you proving how easy and OP Thief is at being unkillable and killing every one easily like all the complainers keep saying. /popcorn ready

I have to go make a video for an argument I never brought up? ok keep waiting.

Stealth is broken pos mechanic that’s my opinion, not that thieves are op unkillable machines that’s your words. If you’re that desperate for entertainment for your popcorn go look up youtube.

I’d rather these thieves have the long stealth uptimes and lose the bunch of blinks/evades they have.

At least when they’re stealthed it’s time they’re not attacking to avoid being revealed.

The old permastealth thief builds with D/P you could at least down with a proper interrupt on BP>HS.

New thief doesn’t need stealth for damage because autoattack damage buff and Pulmonary Impact made backstab irrelevant when they can use all that initiative for interrupts, evades, and blinds.

Xenon.4537:

Zenith.7301:

… I think they cannibalized ritualist into the revenant…

Why do you think this? Did you play ritualist in gw1? I’d genuinely like to get to the bottom of this common opinion.

I mained ritualist in gw1 and I honestly don’t see any similarities at all between it and the revenant.

All I can tell is:

• They both start with the letter R
• They both use magic associated with the Mists
• They both use blindfolds

The gameplay isn’t even remotely similar. The mechanics of the old rit are closer to engineer. (spirits = turrets, ashes = kits, weapon spells = elixirs)

Ritualists called upon known figures in Cantha. So do revenants with legends. Ritualists used the magic of the mists. Their entire kit is about spirits and channeling the spirit’s power.

Necromancers meanwhile raise the corpses of the dead and curse opponents. Their minions are fleshy and made of bone, and their guidance is from Grenth and Dhuum.

Rezah was encountered in the realm of torment, and revenant channels the legend of Mallyx.

If the optimal power warrior weapon was mainhand axe you would be told not to use greatsword anyways.

This is the crappy balance act they’ve done with their combat mechanics, where as always a single weapon will dominate throughout the entire encounter and DPS gaps between weapons are so large and the need for anything but damage so low, you’re going to sit on the answer to the question “what nets you more DPS and let’s you live still?”.

Stand The Wall.6987:

blame the game mode. bunks will always dominate conquest.

Bunks exist because ele , ranger, mesmer, and engi CANNOT build anything that isn’t bunk and not end up farmed by a warrior/DH/thief.

Go play a berk ele/ranger and see how you fare against warrior/thief.

Necro is a class whose main defense doesn’t scale to number of opponents, unlike blocks and evades and invulnerability and teleports. Your shroud blocks just as much damage against 3-4 people attacking you as it blocks against 1.

Moreover, necromancers have BAR NONE THE WORST HEAL SKILLS IN THE GAME. They heal for nothing, have fairly long cd’s for the pitifully low healing they do, and they also got large cast times.

Reaper shroud is a DPS loss over their non-deathshroud weapons. Greatsword/dagger auto do more DPS than reaper shroud 1 by a good margin. So shroud is a turtle form with limited offensive pressure.

More importantly, shroud has no access whatsoever to utilities or elites for some messed up reason. Your signet passives don’t even work while in shroud, so your power signet passive is useless.

The main mechanic of reaper, chill, is useless against warriors and thieves.

Moreover, it’s a bad attrition class because all its skills have long cast times and obvious tells, it has poor self healing, and it doesn’t generate life force to compensate for the rate of loss of health and shroud.

Reaper doesn’t outlast, it must kill its targets quickly, and reaper simply doesn’t have the damage or CC to accomplish that burst demand.

Stability from reaper shroud needs to have its nerf reverted and the stability needs to continue to work after exiting reaper shroud.

If greatsword skills won’t be sped up to be reliable, then they need to deal a lot more damage across the board so that in the rare chance they do connect, they finish off an opponent instead of tickling them.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Zenith.7301:

They just need to make pets scale off the master, at least the crit dan ferocity ratings and normalize the autoattack damage between pets.

No. Another thing that some think will be a good thing. Seems you don’t know how wishes like these go down with Anet, if they ever come to pass.
You think it would be a good thing, but I can assure you the end result would be so bad for rangers you’d most likely rage-quit.
Leave pet stats separate from ranger stats thank you very much.

No, it already works with mesmer phantasms.

It would completely remove the many pet based nerfs we’ve received historically thanks to BM bunkers, spirit bunkers, and now support druid because people just whine that a tanky spec offloads all its damage output to a pet.

This would buff the offensive capabilities of specs that invest in offense, so a glass cannon ranger is actually a cannon and not just mere glass whenever rapid fire is on cooldown.

Power ranger is trash, and pets are trash.

Ranger is penalized because a % of its damage, pets, do not scale with ascended upgrades, do not scale with runes or sigil or food or pots.

So long as ranger has that handicap, it will always have difficulty competing for an offensive role, and pets that are not cats or bristleback won’t see the light of day.