Looking about the right time for BG to devour a server imo. “If history repeats itself” then the blackhole must have something brewing up. I predict this time it will be DB and they fall several tiers like the past servers to face the blackhole.
Well we were thinking about looking at the EU servers, I think we will take the bottom 2 tiers…Well maybe 3. 9 servers should hold our appetite till dinner. If not we can always order tiers 7 and 8 NA for dessert.
I Agree very much with you OP including those who aren’t in-denial.
Well as Always,
Multitude Reasonable Important posts/threads like this is thrown out in the trash due to Elitism of Favorite Stealth Thief class.
Obviously
It pains me to think that thief will likely see more nerfs due to people like this.
Sadly your probably right. Its due to Anet trying to nerf/buff things to balance the game when they should take the time to review and rework some mechanics. I’m not going to say Stealth is OP or not because I’v been on both sides of it and don’t have a problem with it but since it seems to be a major problem for the casual population anet should do something about it or officially come out and tell these players to get kitten.
In most cases I would label this as another QQ thread about the JB but I think you have a very valid issue here. I’m assuming this is the last tier in EU? I don’t think poor Vabbi has ever got there keep back
This thread has a good idea on this subject. Have the reset cost 1 badge for every rank. At low levels it won’t matter as much (cost is low for low end mastery possibility’s) but as you rank higher is starts to cost more. Even around rank 100 it wouldn’t be that bad but people will get to 400+. This way it would reduce the chance of people reseting points for individual engagements. Also give you one more thing to spend badges on…
IMO the other classes blast finishers are much more useful at the start of a engagement then a thieves cluster bomb. Having all your classes save/waste blast finishers anytime you need might/healing/retal is quite wasteful. Having thieves ready to blast these fields give other classes much more control over the fight.
I am not debating that a thief isn’t useful in a zerg, I think it is but it is not a strong utility zerg class. Their base mechanic (stealth) is mostly useless outside of skirmishing.
Mesmers are clearly the utility winners, but Necros condition management, Guardians everything (stability, retaliation, boon-a-palooza) and Eles pack siege capability and fantastic aura sharing are far higher on the list than the thief. Throwing a bone to the Ranger, they have the best water field in the game.
I agree with you, I’m only saying that there is a place for thieves in zergs. While it might not be as glorious as other classes the job is still there and its helpful. Also as you noted a thief and a ranger water field can keep a group topped off like no one else.
PS: Not USELESS in a zerg at all. Just cluster bomb alone makes them one of the strongest utility classes. Don’t pigeon hole your self into a cookie cutter build. Thieves are quite useful out side of doing just damage.
I agree they are not useless but they are also not one of the strongest. Their blast finisher is nice but doesn’t compare to guardian, memser, ele, necro and others utility. Even the ranger ranks above them in some circles thanks to healing spring.
IMO the other classes blast finishers are much more useful at the start of a engagement then a thieves cluster bomb. Having all your classes save/waste blast finishers anytime you need might/healing/retal is quite wasteful. Having thieves ready to blast these fields give other classes much more control over the fight.
More Thief QQ? Can you keep this in the thief section please. We complain about Badges of honor and JP griefers here!
Copied from the other thief QQ thread.
PS: Not USELESS in a zerg at all. Just cluster bomb alone makes them one of the strongest utility classes. Don’t pigeon hole your self into a cookie cutter build. Thieves are quite useful out side of doing just damage.
Yay, just what every thief wants to be a mobile blast finisher.
Could be said about Mesmer and Eles too. Walkig portal/vials and walking static fields and “DRAGON TOOTH THAT AC NOWWWWZZZZZ!”
EDIT: Every class/build has its place in WvW. IMO That is the best job a thieve could do in a zerg on zerg engagement.
More Thief QQ? Can you keep this in the thief section please. We complain about Badges of honor and JP griefers here!
I don’t think this is really a QQ post. The request is reasonable, would not unbalance the skill and basically doesn’t call anyone out. As a primary thief, I can see why it should be changed as the current mechanic does feel cheap and lessons skilled play.
I disagree only because he posts a title with no body of context. This thread is most likely troll bait….
More Thief QQ? Can you keep this in the thief section please. We complain about Badges of honor and JP griefers here!
While this change would affect thieves the most, it is not limited to them exclusively. It is a PVP issue (both WvW and SPvP) that should be discussed among all classes. If it was in the thief forum, it would just get negative comments without rational examination.
And as others have said, blocks and blinds should be available as a counter-play to stealth. By allowing blocks and blinds to negate that first stealth attack, you raise the skill ceiling against stealth play (up from swinging-wildly-at-thin-air).
My post is half a joke…so easy…but the thief forum is for anything thief…PvE/PvP/WvW also its for discussions about how other classes interact with the thief. This is a thread about thieves and isn’t WvW specific. This is the WvW thread right? (<- serious response /rawr)
Also I was joking base off the current state of QQ in this forum right now, if the mods move your thread or not means nothing to me.
To get on topic. I don’t think it should unless they rework some of the other classes ways to obtain these boons. (skills not some much, If you could block a stealth thief with timing, good on you for sure) But for example Guardians can run around is basically permanent Aegis which means a thief could never open on a Guardian with out putting them selves at a huge disadvantage right from the start. Also with the lack of boon removal from all weapons sets (excluding S/D) any class with these skills could be considered a very hard counter to the thief. Every class should have counters but not very hard counters.
I don’t know what crack you all are smoking, but my thief brings a ton to the table, both in roaming AND zerg fights.
Good lord, you sound like rangers. Unbunch your panties, pull out your short bow, and blast / poison / damage / heal the crap out of things.
nope haven’t met a thief I would want over a >guardian, elem, Mesmer, warrior or even necro.
I’m sure you can agree every class has its place in a zerg. Classes like Guardians Warriors necros you want to stack a lot of them, you want a good thief or 2 in your zerg, they just aren’t a class you want tons. If the thief is good and knows what to do they can be very helpful to a zerg.
More Thief QQ? Can you keep this in the thief section please. We complain about Badges of honor and JP griefers here!
Copied from the other thief QQ thread.
PS: Not USELESS in a zerg at all. Just cluster bomb alone makes them one of the strongest utility classes. Don’t pigeon hole your self into a cookie cutter build. Thieves are quite useful out side of doing just damage.
I think its funny when people say zerging takes “NO skill” While its not in the same sense as roaming and sPvP, it still takes skill. There is a lot of information that is needed to help a zerg do well. Its not all 1111 AOE spam. If that’s all your doing, then your doing it wrong. Maybe its boring because you hear the word “zerg” and you figure you’re just going to mindlessly zerg about when there are quite a few other rolls with in the zerg that are very profitable.
To the point, If you do want to zerg don’t, no one cares but know that it is the fastest way to farm badges. If you find it so boring that you don’t want to go the fastest route to get badges then be prepared for it to take longer.
btw if would take you about 33 days of doing the JP to get 500 badges also you get 40 badges from just doing map completion in WvW. So completing the JP 30 times would next you enough badges for the gift. This is assuming you don’t get any other badges anywhere…and since you stated that you tried zerging and assumingly roam, I would guess your “months” is a exaggeration.
Also about wasting time…wouldn’t starting a troll thread to complain about something so minor when it comes to a legendary be “wasting your time”
You do know that other games require you to actually stop what you’re doing and loot the corpse (=> some games even have you kneel and not be able to do anything else) ?
The new loot option is great and imo none other is needed. Just use the key while fighting, you can even spam it.
This isn’t the point of the discussion and this isn’t other games. As stated above I think anyone in WvW is very grateful for the new AoE looting. Zero Complaints about that here. We are merely requesting Anet reviews the subject on macro’s pertaining to this new AoE looting or give us a option in game. Just like all things, there is always room for improvement, AoE looting was a amazing step in the right direction but some feel that it could be better. A macro (for a action that only effects you and no one else) could really raise the level of enjoyment in WvW, allow people to focus more on WvW and less on looting.
As for looting it’s self…very rarely do we find a fight that is just going to stand there and let us kill them so our loot bags are all in one place. Fights are moving, using the terrain, if your in constant battle running in the wrong direction for some loot bags can end up being a waste of time. This would only allow you to reap your rewards while still enjoying the fast movement and never ending battles in WvW.
EDIT: Or just let me bind Jump and AoE loot together on space bar.
It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP. The fact that so many people are piling into the map to get the achievement is good for any and all of you who are capable of laying the smack down on them, and, if they manage to fight back is hopefully going to encourage some of them to stick around and play WvW. If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple. The achievement isn’t required for getting the meta-achievement on purpose.
Agree with Devon on this one.
I would agree. Except. Most players that come in from PvE without PvP/WvW experience have builds that are bad for the skirmishing style of play needed in WvW. So they are in a massively disadvantaged position. This, of course, posits that they are equally geared (more need for exotics in WvW than in PvE).
If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple.
Again this…If you are not prepared to PvP in a PvP zone then don’t go there and expect a free pass because you only PvE.
Another note I have no problem doing the JP in a build that is completely made for zerg play. Solo this build makes me a free kill, well at least should be…
Full zerker gear probably scholar runes. (what ever maximizes direct damage) The 30/30/0/0/0 To max power and crit. Close to death plus any other damaging stats. Basically would probably want to just maximize the amount of damage you could do with Deathly Claws. That would be my guess.
thanks for the info..sorry for being noobish but does it matter if im home borderlands, enemy borderlands, eternal or ?? which one is the best for this?
For me it depends on how the maps are going. For the home BL if your getting pushed hard and you don’t have hills or bay, you’re going to find a lot of zerg play up north since that’s the only place for them to push. If you have hills or bay you’ll find more enemy havoc groups trying to hit camps in the north to slow your supply so smaller groups will be more common.
Enemy BL can be harder as the home server zerg can be anywhere (especially if garrison is Way pointed) and they will tend to respond to most attacks on camps. Can also be said as above it depends on how the map is going. Personally I enjoy enemy BLs because you tend to find more enemy activity.
EB can be anything. There is always a lot of activity, Some people prefer EB some hate it, its all about taste. Roaming in EB can really be done anywhere.
Also remember this is just a generalization, since every server and commander runs things different it all can be very unexpected and unpredictable. This is just my experience while roaming.
Lastly another good spot is “zerg island” or the vista north of south camp. Its almost guaranteed you’ll find people there that are more then willing to fight be it can be very high traffic for zergs to run by.
sPvP 30/10/0/0/30 zerker D/x – Axe/x (X for your call on offhand I go D/D – A/W) The 10 points are also your call I just like the weakening Shroud for DS. I’m not sure how good it is in Tpvp since I don’t play it but its a lot of fun in hot joins.
Edit: I’m dumb and didn’t see you said condi. So meh never mind though it’s still fun
Though I do feel Milkys idea of making it cost a badge per level (100 ranks = 100 badges) would be a good way to stop that as it would burn through badges very quickly at higher ranks.
It isn’t my idea, I was just clarifying the OPs post.
Agreed, this is how it should be, similar to sPvP ranks, there are no good reasons why the ranks are account bound, it is plain stupid and discourages people to make alts even more.
Fotm ranks, dyes, ascended items soulbound and takes a lot of time to get another set for an alt, same with legendaries etc etc, some account bound stuff are not that bad, what I do not get is wvw ranks. Especially why cant we reset the wvw abilities ? what harm could it possibly do ?
I don’t think they want you to be able to retrait for individual engagements. Changing your mastery to fit what you need now. I think they want you to use the points to “gear” your toon for particular jobs. At least thats what I get from it.
You can only retrait outside of WvW or from spawn of WvW. Problem solved.
Out of WvW or have a long CD on retraiting maybe.
If I want to min/max engagements, I would trait for the one you’re in. Then when you win or loose swing by the respec npc, respec and wait for the next engagement to trait up again.
Though I do feel the idea of making it cost a badge per level (100 ranks = 100 badges) would be a good way to stop that as it would burn through badges very quickly at higher ranks.
Based off the last time BG/SoR/JQ got separated SoR smashed “teir 2” and over all BG/SoR are fairly equal in power so we could assume BG would do the same. As for JQ I’m not sure, I’m confident they would win because JQ can be a beast when they want to but over all would be the fairest server to move down to “teir 2”
As for “tier 1” BG/SoR (As much as I’m tiered of them) shouldn’t be split up, they are the best competition for each other. That leaves TC/DB/FA to move up and from what I see TC would be the best option BUT TC/JQ would probably be a good match.
IMO BG/SoR/JQ is the best match tier 1 (or the top 3) could have. It would be hard for any server to truly take a spot in the top 3. No offence to lower servers, its not your players or skill, its your coverage.
Agreed, this is how it should be, similar to sPvP ranks, there are no good reasons why the ranks are account bound, it is plain stupid and discourages people to make alts even more.
Fotm ranks, dyes, ascended items soulbound and takes a lot of time to get another set for an alt, same with legendaries etc etc, some account bound stuff are not that bad, what I do not get is wvw ranks. Especially why cant we reset the wvw abilities ? what harm could it possibly do ?
I don’t think they want you to be able to retrait for individual engagements. Changing your mastery to fit what you need now. I think they want you to use the points to “gear” your toon for particular jobs. At least thats what I get from it.
Retraiting your wvw rank build: It would cost 50 badges (because you are rank 50) to reset a characters wvw rank build so they could re-assign points.
Thats a awesome idea, would you think that is should allow you to retrait individual lines instead of a straight full reset? Just assuming that at some point people will be upwards to 400+ rank points, it would suck to have to spend 400 badges just to change one trait line (assuming you wanted to just change one)
As a thief my favorite place is between north hills and the north east camp. You get a lot of solo and small groups running through there. You will get a zerg coming by from time to time but there is a lot of terrain to run away if needed.
On my Necro anywhere on the south end of the map (south of bay/hills) seems to be good or I have just been lucky there lately.
Realistically if you want Solo fights, stick to enemy WP areas. There is always that one guy that died and has to run back to the zerg or just joined the map. Also doing the supply circuit, just run from camp to camp. Though North camp might draw a bigger fight as the home BL server will probably want to defend it.
As that was posted 4 months ago and much has changed, this should be something Anet should review and get back to us about. Its understandable under there reasoning because of “botting” advantages but as OP states its quite a bore having to focus any of your time on looting in WvW. It takes away from some of the combat which should be the main focus of enjoyment.
I’m not sure I understand the complaints here. Vabbi and Fissure of Woe have been on the bottom of EU for some time now. Its quite obvious that they are not WvW servers at all…If your interested in WvW, why would you stay on those servers?
I’m not going to say it’s the best because thats subjective to group comps and what others are running but 30/0/10/0/30 with mostly zerker and a few knights and cavaliers is a lot of fun. Its a bit more selfish as far as builds go but the damage is great and its a lot of fun DS flashing. If I wasn’t going to run with the zerg then I would put the 10 in curses for weakening shroud or blood magic for Vampiric Precision. But if your with the zerg ever greater marks in a must imo.
TEAM RIOT on the Blackgate server. They run small roaming groups looking for out manned fights. I don’t think I have ever seen them out with more then 5 or so and I have rarely seen any of them with the zerg. These are some links to there members that post videos.
Ah ok and for tagging to get exp and loot in zerg vs zerg do I have to hit multiple times or does one hit suffice?
For loot you have to get a % of damage on the target. From what I understand its the total HP during the fight, That includes healed amount and downed HP. This was posted on reddit so not sure how true it is.
This unspoken rule may be between care bear players that just want to use the JP for the chest at the end. Honestly some of the best small group fights I’v ever been in are in the JP. I personally don’t do the JP much anymore but if I were to, I would fight my way to the end.
MF/GF/XP/Karma is good but not enough to warrant risking PPT for imo. WXP would be nice since a lot of people are still grinding for those rank points they want but still not good enough.
As for extra PPT or increased stats, its a gray area because it would be hard to truly balance it so it wouldn’t lopside matches more then they are. (In some tiers)
I thought a interesting idea would be to have the orbs give something your server really wants (Like all the above except maybe not extra stats) then have what ever keep they are held in deteriorate over time. Siege slowly dies, walls and doors loose HP, supply drains. This way you would have to decide not only what keep you want them in but is the benefits worth it over the objective.
Wells – Yes kinda. Wells Pulse every second for 5 seconds. Each pulse can hit only 5 people. So at best it can hit 25 people but chances are you’re going to hit some of the same people a few times.
As for “best” profession, its a hard and very debatable question. Personally I play a Necro and get A LOT of bags so they are very good. But the first person to hit 250k kills was a staff Guardian so they are very good as well (This point is debatable because this person was a very active commander in a very active WvW guild) TBH Thieves can be very good as well if you play them right and focus on tagging vs what thieves normally do, I wouldn’t call them the best by any means but they can be good. Those are the only 2 classes I play so that’s all I can say from experience. But I do know warriors, Mesmers, and Eles can do very well if built right.
Doesn’t it also depend on how long the guy you killed had stayed alive previously? The longer he remains upright and not face down in the dirt, the higher the chance of a better reward?
Only WXP, I don’t think it effects bags. But then again I haven’t heard of anything either way…
I confess my ignorance, how dies one use Spectral Wall in 1v1 fights? I thought it was a Zerg vs Zerg skill.
Spectral wall is a very good anti thief skill now because if you stand on the wall, you are basically immune to melee attacks for 5 seconds. If they get close enough to hit you, back up one step and they get feared. Dance around the center of the wall and they have to use a stealth to avoid taking damage, or suffer the consequences of crossing the wall.
Thieves have almost no stability against a necro, except for daggerstorm, and that is largely a death sentence for them against a condition necro, as you will just wail on them the entire time.
You keep making these utterly wrong statements today.
1. Thief blows his condition clears?…. What… you even played a thief? Shadow arts thief no matter the choice clears condition by simply sitting in stealth. Depending on choices even now you can maintain 90% stealth upkeep w/o trying.
2. Spectral wall granting immunity against melee….. W. H. A. T. ?
Last I checked except for thief every last melee class has so much stability that your wall is as irrelevant as it gets. Also if you dodge roll ends on wall you can sit on it just fine w/o stability. Ughh… so much wrong with all those.
3. It is no different from guardian bubbles/walls that block enemies. Except spectral wall can be dodged a wall that blocks you can’t be dodged and stability doesn’t 100% negate it. Oh and if 6 people run over it… even assuming no stability…. they are all too stupid to blink/teleport/dodge/walk around… it won’t even affect everyone. Thats like saying this pitiful thing can do something against a wvw zerg where 99% of people just run over it and a few unlucky sobs will have to deal with 1 second fear. Considering its duration and cooldown… yeah… soooo op.
Just stop…
Man, no need to go all defensive, he wasn’t stating it was OP, he was stating it was good against thieves because other than daggerstorm, they don’t have access to stability.
Read his first post then others. Not saying something and saying wrong things are not the same thing. Defensinve? Pointing out mistakes is me being defensive? Google it maybe?
No need to Google defensive when your giving a clear example….
Spectral wall is great, thieves have a lot of very quick movement skills that with a well timed wall can easily grant you the 1 second fear along with the protection. If you time it right you can capitalize on that 1 second fear to get some good damage in on the thief forcing them to reset the fight. Plus the protection can reduce quite a bit of the burst damage.
Point one, Yes stealth is a condi clear if traited for it (which most d/p are) but its only 1 condi 3 seconds. Any decent necro can put up more conditions then that can handle so forcing them to stay in stealth for long periods of time. If they are in stealth, they aren’t doing damage so you have time to get ready as well.
Stability and point 3 – Hes asking about thieves so any points on other classes are moot. Thieves only way to get stability reliably is dagger storm so using that to cross a wall? Complete joke. Also if your placing the wall down just because then I also wouldn’t expect them to just walk over it, Its more about placing it at the right time to give them little choice and force there hand. Also on the matter of other classes and stability, like I said it about the timing of the wall placement so if they don’t have stability up at the time its very unlikely that they would be able to put it up in time.
If you want to correct somebody please understand that your generalizing the skills and not thinking about how you can use them outside of what the obvious uses. But gratz on being a troll in a thread of someone asking for help. Real big of you…
Honestly, any un-informed player will look at the score and see that the tier is pretty balanced.
fixed that for you :P
you only need to look at millenium to see this
when any server scores more than double the ppt of the two other servers combined it is not good for the tier, yes the overall scores are close atm but it doesn’t look like it will get much closer, rather the scores will blow out from here as coverage takes over
This is going to be into day 4 where the scores are still this close. Unheard of before. This tier is close to balanced.
What I think no one is taking into account beyond transfers is the summer. More players are out and about with more free time. BG with it’s massive server population combined with the summer still is kicking it strong with the coverage and quite frankly I still think they will prob win this matchup.
I think what your missing is that SoR was able to tick for 400+ for almost 13 ticks in a row. 3 of which were closer to 500. Point is if SoR is able to do that half the week in EU they should be able to pull ahead every time. Kinda like the 6k gain they made today.
I’m not going to sit and say the tier isn’t in a good place but for you to think that SoR’s massive gain to EU while JQ’s is non existent is balanced then you seem to have a bias view on the matter and only want to defend SoR.
Transfer to another server that has proper WvW population and coverage. If you’re a competitive person this is a valid option, but the fact that it will cost you gold/money to transfer because of a flaw within the mechanics is an absolute joke.
Try and recruit guilds from other servers. The fact that you almost need to create a a semi political campaign to get new players on your servers is ludicrous. It takes a lot of time, effort and people to successfully campaign for a server. Players are forced to find ways to fix the broken population mechanics.
First point. There is a server for every level of WvW. “tier 1/2” (or top 6) tend to be much more WvW focused so if your looking for full time WvW these are the servers to go to. If you want part time fun try the next 9 “tiers 3/4/5” I mean look at tier 5 right now! That is a crazy close fight! If you think that it should be even across every server you should probably start recruiting people to play GW2, there just isn’t enough people to have full coverage. As for cost, they had FREE transfers for a very long time, I know you couldn’t have guess what the best bandwagon server to be on will be but it was there. Honestly I’m surprised they had them at all, also you should be thankful that you can transfer with gold. A lot of games make you pay money and won’t let you farm it in game. And if your desperate you can delete all your characters and transfer free.
Second point. Thats part of the fun for high tier WvW. I know for SoR/BG/JQ we always want fresh blood to fight. Its great when new guilds come from other servers to join in the battles. Keeps things from stagnating in a tier that has been basically the same 3 servers for a very long time. As from the guild point a view it must feel good to have the 3 top NA server fighting for you to come then welcome new friends to your community.
IMO WvW promotes teamwork and coordination on a very large scale. You have hundreds of people from tons of guilds in different time zones working together to build a strong WvW community.
This is probably one of the closest match ups of all time.
Why do people whine so much.
Going into Monday, everyone is within 10k of each other. Less QQ more pewpew.
Because both jq and bg whine about not winning. It’s perfectly fine when they stomp sor BADLY (due to coverage) like in the past………many many weeks. I never saw them complain about balance back then.
But when this matchup is the closest t1 has EVER been they whine incessantly. They truly only care about getting a W at the end of week. Sor core was forged through the countless weeks/months of never winning. We really are different from jq/bg as a whole.
Try to spin it all you want, but if SoR is able to pull this type of PPT half the week it won’t be as close as you claim it to be. You might be right in saying its the closest its ever been but with SoR’s EU strength atm its quite lopsided in this time zone which gives you a clear advantage in NA.
wut i was saying is JQ was the king of t1 after hod and then after sos u had the chance then to change the meta, instead u had the largest sea and pvdoored there. So servers like BG recruited to counter that. SOR then recruited to counter bg
im not targeting any server i like JQ and BG. I have posted in many recruiting threads saying how wonderful JQ is and how they should check them out
i WILL also say i think we may have recruited a little much FOR EU. I love having iron and kiss on r server tho they r great ppl
so plz dont try and make it seem like im some all out hater when im not. I JUST HATE crying for anyone even from SOR
I think a lot of people get the wrong idea because leading up to KISS transferring to SoR, there was a lot of talk about how SoR tries to persuade guilds to other servers. In most peoples opinion KISS going to JQ would have been better for the tier over all. Now if SoR did try to persuade them or not or what ever it’s done now, I just think that is a main contributor to the SoR EU hate right now. Just my opinion…
I really don’t understand bg, We push sor on sm….. so instead of going for the tick leader by 200 points and the only one who has a chance of catching and beating you, you ninja JQ towers….. I feel like you’d be helping yourself making some sor stuff into paper while they are distracted at sm, Idk I’m not a commander so maybe that was the best move.
I’m not on but if I made a guess, they either tried and got stomped by superior SoR numbers or the commander knew he didn’t have the numbers to push SoR. Also maybe if he pushed SoR they would focus BG, thus allowing a 2v1 on BG. Just a guess…
