Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

Zikory.6871:

jportell.2197:

Well the stealth traps aren’t everywhere you dont have to act like you are walking in hot lava. I go into wvw for 2-3 hrs a day in tier two on my thief and I have yet to suffer from this trap solo and with huge zergs in EB. The stealth traps are if you happen to cross them the confusion nerf is determined once you enter WvW. Also thieves can still contribute to zerg fights thanks to SB AOE. Mesmers could only really contribute through the confusion glam build (our only AOE). Phantasm and shatter are great dueling builds but terrible in zergs. And i mean terrible. All clones and phantasms die immediately thanks to AOE.

Other then the blast finisher of the short bow, I think confusion builds do much more damage in zerg fights still. Not saying the damage is good but better than.

But your right about the trap, the QQ is a overreaction. The trap doesn’t not 100% directly nerf thieves as thieves are fine if they don’t hit the trap. Problem is they have a chance to hit this trap (no matter how small that chance is) to be taken out of any fight. The trap is broken at 30s revealed. They should lower it to 5s-10s or make it like shadow refuge and last 30s and pluse 3s revealed every 1s while your in it, stacking to 10s-15s.

Or they could just remove the stealth trap completely. Stealthing a zerg took a lot of coordination and it only lasted for 4-5s at a time. They essentially just punished team work. The same thing with the confusion nerf. It punished mesmers that put a lot of time and effort into making an ideal confusion build. And then it gave a buff to bad players that are button mashers.

The poison field on the shortbow is pretty shweet too. It can cause AOE weakness too!

For thieves stealthing a zerg is unreasonable, I think the going argument was a nerf to veil. Really though, If you see the veil coming there is no need for the trap as you know where they are going to be and if you don’t see it coming the trap wasn’t going to help you in the first place. I do see a lot more mesmers around lately, maybe the after nerf shock is wearing off.

Shortbow is all around very good but other then the on call blast finisher its very lacking compared to what other classes can do. Also If you get into some of the bigger fights, you would be lucky to get both skills off fast enough to get the combo. Nerf skill lag, It to OP.

jportell.2197:

Well the stealth traps aren’t everywhere you dont have to act like you are walking in hot lava. I go into wvw for 2-3 hrs a day in tier two on my thief and I have yet to suffer from this trap solo and with huge zergs in EB. The stealth traps are if you happen to cross them the confusion nerf is determined once you enter WvW. Also thieves can still contribute to zerg fights thanks to SB AOE. Mesmers could only really contribute through the confusion glam build (our only AOE). Phantasm and shatter are great dueling builds but terrible in zergs. And i mean terrible. All clones and phantasms die immediately thanks to AOE.

Other then the blast finisher of the short bow, I think confusion builds do much more damage in zerg fights still. Not saying the damage is good but better than.

But your right about the trap, the QQ is a overreaction. The trap doesn’t not 100% directly nerf thieves as thieves are fine if they don’t hit the trap. Problem is they have a chance to hit this trap (no matter how small that chance is) to be taken out of any fight. The trap is broken at 30s revealed. They should lower it to 5s-10s or make it like shadow refuge and last 30s and pluse 3s revealed every 1s while your in it, stacking to 10s-15s.

savints.6281:

Travlane.5948:

savints.6281:

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Removing stealth is never going happen in this game, you might as just accept this fact and rather then posting pointless suggestions that will never get implemented, just focus on the things that we need right now, and what “they say” we are going get like higher mobility, which I am really excited for, even if it just reducing the cool downs on some of our more mobile utility’s

I was worried about the stealth traps just as much as the rest of you, but in fact it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, so what if that 1% or 2% of the wvw’ers that are roaming at the time actually wast (because in fact it is a wast) a trap just to one kitten one thief (because you know they can’t/don’t have the skill to actually beat you with out one, hence the reason they are carrying it in the first place) it’s just so hilarious in my opinion I was fighting a ranger that was clearly being out classed by me the other day, and thought it was just the best idea to bust one of these traps down so they could get some easy kills, well I will tell you what, I swapped to d/p (main is d/d) and just trolled him with head shot on that last second of the trap being set, anyways, kinda off topic, stealth is not going any where, just learn to live with that fact, if you don’t like stealth in gw2 try rolling another profession, or find a new game in the mean time (because you know gw2 is free and you can ALWAYS come back to it at some point whenever you want)

they are worse than expected….. its not really fair to say well they arent affecting people that much bc they are not used like every 2 mins everywhere right now….but when they are used you are almost assuredly dead :P. they are horrible. you could say that mesmer immortal build is weak “when ur not fighting it” but when you fight it your as good as dead….i mean that doesnt make much sense. you have to look at in effect. not if in effect.

I do player on a lower tier server, so that might have something to do with it, but I don’t see these traps being used, it’s pretty rare.

So maybe my opinion them is a little jaded compared to the people that play on t1 and t2, if so, then I really don’t have that much experience with them as the rest, saying that everyone and there grandma is running with these traps, and they are placed every 5 feet in wvw… it’s just hard to make a honest judgment on the matter.

I play on Blackgate and I have yet to see one. I’m a fairly active roamer and the only ones I’v seen are my groups. I don’t think people have found ways to utilize them yet.

jportell.2197:

swinsk.6410:

1. No. I don’t want to buy new gear and rebuild for the 3d or 4th time. I’ve had enough. I like stealth and shouldn’t be ostracized for it.

2. True, but they will be used in any 1v1 vs. a decent player.

3. If you hit one in a zerg you will probably die.

What game are you playing?

You really think you can come on here and tell all thieves to rebuild and regear and that everything will be OK?

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

Traps are the dumbest thing in GW2 and reason I refuse to play wvw anymore.

This is how mesmers felt about the confusion nerf in WvW… it’s annoying because there are still NPC’s that we have to try and wear down. It destroyed a build for us completely. We feel absolutely useless thanks to the massive confusion nerf.

The confusion nerf was a lot like the revealed nerf for thieves. For thieves a lot of people were running D/D, once the nerf hit thieves went D/P and opened up a whole different can of worms. A lot like the Confusion nerf (which I don’t fully agree with) it force mesmers to run power builds and some of them are quite nasty.

Edit: You’re right it doesn’t kill any builds, unless you run over one then the top 2 most played thief builds are rendered sprinters builds for 30s.

They won’t remove stealth and asking them to do so is kitten. They have spent time and resources on this mechanic and have continued to do so. I understand your being up the assassin as a “would like this better” idea but the thief is not the assassin and this is not Guild Wars 1. To go a long with a common ideal in most complaint threads, you need to adapt. Just like thieves adapting to mechanic changes every patch…every one needs to adapt to stealth.

Honestly I have gone through about 30 of them on my necro this weekend. I stopped 2 thieves from taking a camp couple of times by placing this trap. Once they can’t stealth, load them up with bleeds and kick back. To put it in perspective, I’m a horrible Necro out side of a zerg, I’m built for group support and really no single target damage. To 1 thief I should be a free kill, but taking on 2?

I’m not complaining about the trap as I have yet to have one used on me. So I’m assuming people just aren’t interested in it yet, but for those that have been using it regularly know its broken. My suggestion is don’t boycott it! Use this trap as much as you can, abuse it to no end! Once half the thief player base is taken out of commission because of this trap then anet will be forced to make a change.

swinsk.6410:

I just refuse to play a game with those things in it.

I know I can still kill people and even possibly get away if I hit a 30s reveal trap using shadowstep + hs spam.

That still doesn’t mean I think the traps are fun.

ANet ruined wvw for me. So I quit playing it.

sPvP for me only now. No biggie.

I’m sorry to hear that from another thief, I have used over 30 of these of these traps and maybe only 20 of them successfully on thieves. (Mind you I baited them to these traps) I have yet to run into one my self. Right now I don’t think its game breaking but like I said above, I don’t think people have found very many ways to abuse them yet.

PS: You should take WvW out of your sig. It may be confusing for people that care.

When I leveled I went D/D the whole way. The first thing I would get is 15 in acrobatics for feline grace, after that just pick stuff that sounds cool and play with it. Once you get around level 60, find a build you think you want and use that build and play style. Unless your trying to power your way up, I suggest trying every weapon combo and play with different trait lines to see what you want. Once you pick some core traits, you can build around them.

Just make it like a portal. Using Scorpion wire as the example. Guy A targets and shoots Scorpion wire at Guy B. Guy B now has to hit his action key to accept the pull. If Guy A or B move out of range the action is canceled.

Just like a portal, you have to stand on the portal and accept it.

One draw back for this (with WvW in mind) Mesmers wouldn’t need to try to hide in keeps any more. Thieves could stay stealth and when its clear pull up a Mesmer.

I’ll say this. The trap has only been out for 3 days! This is not enough time to fully understand the trap. People know and understand the basic use of the trap but people haven’t found out how to abuse them yet.

Last night I got 10 thief kills with 10 traps. I would take a Sentry then place the trap at his feet. If a thief is the first to come its guaranteed to work every time.

TBH the trap is kitten. But I’m not going to complain about it because its been a blast trolling thieves.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

You amount of toughness vs others in your group makes a difference but it isn’t the only thing that contributes to it.

Also as far as I know there has not been a official response on how threat or aggro fully works in this game.

Your link is broken.

Edit: Yup

For leveling I was a d/d burst thief all the way up to 80 and I felt very strong. There wasn’t much I couldn’t do. Though for dungeons and level 80 content thieves are kinda lackluster compared to other classes. That’s not saying you can’t competitively keep up, just its easier for other classes to do what a thief has to work for.

Yes, like I said thieves are very trait and skill dependent. Most of our damage is boosted with traits and other then stealth all of our defense comes from traits and skills. Your only level 11 so I would just enjoy the class as you level in pve or wvw. As you gain levels and get skills if will become easier to compete and more fun.

You’ll probably get destroyed roaming about. Only because thieves are very trait and skill dependent. But that doesn’t mean you can’t have fun. Stick with groups (not necessarily the zerg) and regardless of level short bow #2 cluster bomb is still the best on demand blast finisher in the game, that tied with your groups combo fields you can be extremely valuable in your groups.

Scrambles.2604:

Zikory.6871:

Scrambles.2604:

isn’t the anti-stealth trap a 4 sec cast? Good luck pulling that off in a 1v1.

Most thieves use shadow refuge so that is more then enough time to pull it off. Also if your fast any of the thieves stealth skills will give you enough time to drop it and only be out of stealth for a short time.

shadow refuge – aka “spam shortbow 2 here”

I didn’t say it couldn’t be done. But good luck pulling it off.

I feel like there’s a bigger ratio of thieves “speculating the effects of anti-stealth traps” vs “experiencing the effects of anti-stealth traps”

Well I’v successively used it quite a few times now but have yet to have it used on me. From what I can tell most that I have encountered were rendered worthless. After they get hit with the trap most just spam anything they have to run away. The ones that stay and fight get trashed.

Its very unlikely that cluster bomb will kill a thief in 4s. Considering your probably going to use SR as a tool to drop the trap rather than a safety net your probably going to be close to full hp. And as for luck its really not hard in a 1v1 with another thief. We lack AoE interrupts from stoping us from deploying the trap while in stealth. Blinding powder works quite by the time the trap is down, you’ll have been out of stealth for a little over a second.

Scrambles.2604:

isn’t the anti-stealth trap a 4 sec cast? Good luck pulling that off in a 1v1.

Most thieves use shadow refuge so that is more then enough time to pull it off. Also if your fast any of the thieves stealth skills will give you enough time to drop it and only be out of stealth for a short time.

Since you said “duel” I would agree with you. Only because duels have nothing to do with WvW. Since they are more for testing your self and having fun the trap would be kinda kitten to use.

Out side of duels, you’d be crazy to think I’m not going to use it. Its a amazing tool to use while scouting camps. Having it set off to the side and kite thieves to it as needed while defending is insanely useful.

Another note is everyone one has the power to use this trap. If you choose not to use a tool that is given to you, your naive. If I were to get jumped by a thief, on any of my toons, the first thing I would try to do is drop that trap.

As for respect, there is very little in this forum. Most everyone is hyper negative and do nothing but complain. The thief is my main class and no matter what nerfs we get, I’ll be out there giving more people something to complain about.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. p/d is one of those build that is made to harass more then kill. I think the current play style is meant to outlast but the problem with that is most people won’t sit there and fight you for 30 minutes.

Grimwolf.7163:

Mother of God…

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Their solution to traps; make them unusable in Stealth.
MORE Thief WvW nerfs likely underway.
I desperately hope they actually plan to do something like upping the placement to 20 seconds.

I’m torn on the making them unusable in stealth. One side I have had a lot of fun supply bombing zergs on the run but on the other hand I have effectively removed the whole zerg from doing anything other than trying to find supply.

The problem with CD in PvE (mainly dungeons) is that other classes can do it better and more effectively. I don’t PvE on my thief so I’m not up to date on the current builds but I think S/X is the meta at the moment.

WvW – Don’t listen to them. Comparing CD thieves vs burst thieves is like comparing fruits and vegetables. They have a different play style and work better in different situations. P/D is very strong in WvW, good damage and great defense. I don’t know how well D/D condition builds do in WvW, I don’t think many people run it.

Well no one can answer that based off what you asked. Your gear will depend on your build, skill level, and play style. All of these will contribute to what stats will fit you best.

Maybe post your build and what weapon sets your trying to use. Unless your asking for a build, in which case you should google thief builds till you find one that fits the play style you want.

Zamiel.2130:

You know you’re not the only class that uses stealth right? It can’t be anti-thief if Mesmer’s are equally as hard hit.

I would agree with you if there were any threads even discussing traps in the Mesmer forum…It seems that the only Mesmers that really see it as a issue are here in the Thief forums…

Sunflowers.1729:

Zikory.6871:

So far I have only used them on thieves while scouting and roaming. They are quite effective to have placed and used to kite them in the area. Waste of supply because supply has a limited amount is also untrue. If you have a objective with full supply, thats a waste of supply (debatable depending on upgrades for keeps and towers) As for full camps taking 10 supply to lay a trap is not a waste considering the supply will refresh and you gain a tool to help you defend.

Even if it is not a waste of supply, you are still using 15 badges for a chance to possibly get a badge or two from a Thief you may or may not kill. Unless people are really that stupid, in a few weeks the novelty will wear off and nobody will bother using these traps on Thieves

As for Mesmers blinking over the trap, why not just set up two traps, or set them before your wall/gate is destroyed so they don’t know where it is? You can argue that “isn’t this the same for Thieves?” but the fact remains that using this trap on one single person is a waste. When Thieves can set portals then I’ll agree that it is a pretty big nerf to us as well, but until then, no.

Well if you are really have so many badges, go ahead and spam them. You know what works better? Setting up a ballista. It counters everyone and can be used repeatedly.

Your ballista argument is bad. So a ballista works better to take people out of stealth? or are you even able to hit some one in stealth with a ballista?

The cost is a non factor. If you don’t have a ton a badges thats unforchant. There is quite a lot of posts asking for more to do with badges as avid WvW’ers have stocked up quite a bit of them. Here is part of anets response.

You can only set 1 of each trap at a time. So you setting 2 traps won’t work. So its a waste to use the trap on 1 mesmer that is planing a portal bomb?

So your saying that the whole reason that its a nerf to Mesmers is because of portals? Something that has nothing to do with stealth?

I’m sorry that you can only look at this so negatively. Let me know when your done repeating your same argument and ready to listen to other points of view.

His build and gear are posted on his videos.

His build.
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1g.h14.8.1g.h2|5.1g.h4|1p.71j.1p.71j.1p.71j.1p.71j.1p.71j.1p.71j|3s.d17.2s.d14.2t.d14.2s.d14.1g.67.2s.d14|0.u36c.u56b.a1.0|40.2|57.5a.5b.5c.0|e

His most resent video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKzHTFfi3mk

Maduxi.6593:

Am new to guild wars 2 i just bought it for 2 days ago and i loved to play as rogue in other games so i believe its called thief here, i want to know is it good idé to start thief or is it gona be nerfed badly soon?

cuz i saw some forums about other classes complaining that thiefs are op and need to be nerfed and such….

Dado

Honestly, this forum in a toxic wasteland. I have played thief since the whole time the game has been out. I have played through the buffs and the nerfs and I expect to play through the next rounds of them. The class is different from all the other classes so if you find it fun stick with it. I’m not sure how your personality is, if your a “sky is falling” “they nerfed my build, the class is dead” type (which is most of whom post on the forums) or if anet nerfs your build find a new one or make yours work type a person. If your a sky is falling type, the thief is not for you! Due to the stealth mechanic the thief will be the most looked at class as far and core changes, mainly due to the massive QQ on these forums (justified or not)

Just be warned it doesn’t matter what class you pick, you will get nerfed and you will get buffs. It the way it is.

Sunflowers.1729:

A lot of stuff, go read it up there ^

Sunflowers, you make a good argument but your not thinking about how the trap can be used. Good for choke points, kinda but any good defense will have a massive amount of AoE in that area so you should be blocking out that one Mesmer. You can blink over the trap so that won’t make a difference considering a Mesmer will blink past the choke to minimize damage.

For veils bombs while your attacking a keep, like you said the 10 supply is more useful else where then the trap. Also you can see the enemy tags, if your grou kitten couting correctly you will know where the veil will come from. And as for open field, well who cares, open field is just fun how ever you look at it and veil makes things interesting.

As for “-Nobody is going to use them on Thieves because it is a complete and utter waste of supply.” That’s not true at all! So far I have only used them on thieves while scouting and roaming. They are quite effective to have placed and used to kite them in the area. Waste of supply because supply has a limited amount is also untrue. If you have a objective with full supply, thats a waste of supply (debatable depending on upgrades for keeps and towers) As for full camps taking 10 supply to lay a trap is not a waste considering the supply will refresh and you gain a tool to help you defend.

TL:DR
I disagree with everything you said based on personal experience.

Edit: I’d like to add about the wasting 15 badges for 2 comment. For some people 15 badges won’t even make a dent. I bought 50 of each trap last night and still have over 10 stacks of them. I know some people much less or much more than I do but for avid WvW’ers, were in no shortage of badges and karma. I see it as using 15 badges for some sneaky tactics and a good laugh.

For the supply trap, I foresee anet making a change to these at some point. I don’t think it will be soon but I think it will happen. I’m sure most of us have seen the video of some VOTF thieves supply bombing a enemy zerg. Well after I had a go at it my self, it is extremely easy to do. Single handedly I had a zerg able to do nothing but hit camps over and over. If this widely catches on, there will probably some major QQ at some point. IMO this is a buff because we are the only class that can effectively do this with minimal threat.

Stealth trap is a double edged sword imo. I camped a area north of hills with a trap placed waiting for a thief to come by and attack me. Kited the thief to the trap and killed him with out an issue. I think it will be very useful for thieves or people that wait to scout open field areas like camps. Also the fact that you can stealth and then drop the trap in a 1vX fight. Looking at it that way its a buff for sure but there is the flip side. A thief could do the same to you or if your in a group fight, any random person can drop them making 1vX much harder for thieves.

Either way I’m looking forward to some creative ways people use these traps.

Last night I was hanging out north of hills just camping the area with a stealth trap placed. Just waiting for the inevitable thief to come hit me. I took a few traps as the first two challengers were not thieves but when the thief came by, I kited him to the trap. It worked great, he had no idea, then could do nothing other then spam HS.

Since it worked so well, I plan to be doing this much more as a scout.

Edit: Fixed location. I wasn’t south of hills :-/

Honestly I want to see how this trap plays out for a week or so. There is always a lot of first day the sky is falling talk but we don’t know how people will utilize or abuse this trap. Though I do feel 30s is much to long. I think I would be much happier with 10s. The arrangement I see people throwing around is it is to counter veil bombs and mass invis tactics. That may be true but the normal 3s revealed would be enough for that. The point would be to get them out of stealth.

Along with traits it renders part of 1 heal skill and 2 utility’s useless.

Zen.8497:

Obviously I’m not young enough to know everything but I can say two things… You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad… and you can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad.

That explains a lot actually. Some broken BG thieves been picking on you lately? :-)

KnattyDreads.1856:

It has been stated already, but let me reiterate. These traps are not designed for dueling nor should they be.

Lol I agree with you but the first thief to try to fight me I’m going to drop shadow refuge and then drop a trap. Just sayin…

Benjamin.7893:

This isn’t to counter thiefs.

It is a trap that can be laid down when facing zergs to have an advantage and render their veils useless. Somehow people still think that WvW should be balanced around 1V1s rofl.

The main intention may not be to counter thieves but what class most rely’s on stealth? It not a direct nerf to thieves but it is a situational nerf. You’d be kitten if you think that people are going to use this more for veils then trying to catch a thief. That 10 supply will more useful in other places then using it to catch a veil that your probably going to be aware of.

1v1? Nothing is balanced around 1v1 hence no dueling…

The point is 30s is a long time for a thief to not be able to stealth while in a fight. Since Stealth is the main mechanic for thieves, getting it removed for long periods in time breaks quite a few builds. Thieves are the only class this truly effects, mesmers to a point.

Are the traps visible in any way prior to setting them off?

Daecollo.9578:

1 Nobody knows when a Veil bomb will happen.
2 By the time you know a Veil bomb will happen, it will be too late.
3 It will punish individual roamers before anyone else.
4 Any good mesmer will stealth himself and then trigger the thing before sending everyone else in.

This is a thief, not a mesmer nerf. IMO.

On veil bomb, your correct saying you don’t know where its coming from. So the only action is if your in a possible situation where you could be viel bombed or even portal bombed (unstealthing that brave mesmer) your zerg just places them all over. Its limited 1 per player at a time. Question though is if it effects siege cap…? Imo it should.

Lifewaster.5912:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Shadow refuge => run into zerg => bye bye 100 supply

Quite ironic really, this actually gives roaming wvw thieves even more ability to troll large groups.

Unless the zerg puts down a stealth trap then its bye bye thief. TBH any area a zerg is sieging is going to be littered with these traps.

Dr Zoidberg.2046:

Zikory.6871:

Dr Zoidberg.2046:

Arkanfel.8403:

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

We now have virtually no condition removal around those traps. 1 reliable source that removes 1, 1 that is our heal which only removes specific conditions, 1 utility that is meant to be used as a teleport, and 1 on an underwhelming weapon that costs 5/12 initiative to remove 1 condition. So much for trying to allow a variety of builds. If you don’t have condition removal in WvW, you’re dead, especially with thief’s low HP pool.

Meh, that’s a bad argument to try and make your point. Getting a 30s revealed you’re dead is more on point. CD removal is just one thing, there is healing, int regain, blind…(traited of course ) The trap is to make thieves have to pick there battles better. Were not going to be able to just do anything we want, which is fine.

The only thing I might disagree with because of the tra kitten olo taking a camp. If I get a 30s revealed it will effectively reduce my damage making taking a camp much slower. Then again who knows, haven’t seen it in action yet. Either way, good luck non thieves! Hope this trap helps you save some tears for other classes.

We still have dodges and shadowstepping and such to prevent physical damage and bail on a fight if we need to. 1 necro or 2 enemies of virtually any class can put a hell of a lot of conditions on you pretty quickly. Our low HP pool and poor condition removal ensures death since you can’t dodge out of conditions.

I get your point but I don’t use Shadow’s Embrace, so I don’t find it completely necessary. I guess my point was more that stealth its self is our best defense, the traited effects are just bonus.

Dr Zoidberg.2046:

Arkanfel.8403:

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

We now have virtually no condition removal around those traps. 1 reliable source that removes 1, 1 that is our heal which only removes specific conditions, 1 utility that is meant to be used as a teleport, and 1 on an underwhelming weapon that costs 5/12 initiative to remove 1 condition. So much for trying to allow a variety of builds. If you don’t have condition removal in WvW, you’re dead, especially with thief’s low HP pool.

Meh, that’s a bad argument to try and make your point. Getting a 30s revealed you’re dead is more on point. CD removal is just one thing, there is healing, int regain, blind…(traited of course ) The trap is to make thieves have to pick there battles better. Were not going to be able to just do anything we want, which is fine.

The only thing I might disagree with because of the tra kitten olo taking a camp. If I get a 30s revealed it will effectively reduce my damage making taking a camp much slower. Then again who knows, haven’t seen it in action yet. Either way, good luck non thieves! Hope this trap helps you save some tears for other classes.

Arkanfel.8403:

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

All I’m saying as a thief, Is have fun with that 4s cast to place the trap! This won’t help you with the roaming thieves. This trap is going to be great, Imo its going to weed out more of the thief band wagoners.

Issues.5789:

Auesis.7301:

Issues.5789:

Big Tower.5423:

Both be 4 seconds?!?!?!?!?!?!
lol that will make us comletly broken again!

I put both options as the change didn’t affect me really.. As long as you are aware of when to restealth/counted number of attacks before; it wasn’t a major issue.

It WAS a major issue – DPS dropped like a brick for any stealth builds in PvE for no reason whatsoever.

The difference between the two isn’t that bad to get used to. A good player will be making a decent effort in disrupting your stealth->hit->combo->stealth routine anyway.

If it goes back up to 4 in PvE, I am done with the game.

I don’t really care for PvE. This thread is about WvW and Spvp. I’m not saying isn’t hard to to cope with. I’m just saying it’s a pain to constantly switch between 3 and 4 seconds.

For WvW, the 4s revealed broke D/D with 30 in shadow arts. That 1 second effected not only the dps but the healing from stealth and the defense of blind on stealth. Obviously this is one build as this effected only traits but still it killed the build.

Honestly they need to make revealed 3s all around and anet needs to sit down and figure out a way to restructure stealth. As a thief I’m bias, I think its fine, but its obvious others don’t feel the same so something needs to be done but messing with revealed is not the way to go about it.

Side note for WvW: new stealth trap will reveal you for 30s if you walk through it. Better stock up non thieves!

I think these posts are great! I can’t fathom how you don’t find consistent small fights. I play on Blackgate and when I roam I find fights all the time. People say small group fights don’t happen in T1…It’s probably true if your not actively looking for them.

On camps, I wouldn’t blame the zerg, you should blame your self. The current meta of WvW requires a lot of supply and the zerg needs it to function. If your hanging out in camps expect a zerg to steam through and supply up.

Zen.8497:

Israel.7056:

Zen.8497:

I have already tried thief and shortly found it no challenge… please try other classes and post some videos.
I just remembered the saying you’re only young once, but you can be immature forever.

And yet most thieves can’t come close to Yishis.

People in wvw die to thieves because EVERY thief is built for dueling and 1v1 while 80% of the wvwvw people are built for group fights… Also there already are alot of threads about how broken the class is in wvw as opposed to spvp.

Thief is the easiest class to solo play in wvw if you are skilled and like challenge play a different class and do the same. Until then it’s all the same to me.

Why so much hate? TEAM RIOT puts out a number of videos across a bunch of classes and they are all very good. No reason to insult some one because you don’t feel he meets your standard of “skill” which is relative anyway.

Maybe you should rethink how you look at the video. I doubt Yishis needs approval of forum warriors. He does a amazing job with the videos and commentary, so it shows how a good D/D thief plays in a 1vX fight which could help others learn how to counter these builds.

Niim.9260:

slingblade.1437:

Killtrox.2019:

Transferring to BG from KN lost us most of our veteran core members.

Wow. Why did you guys transfer then? Strictly a majority-rules vote?

Easier to enjoy a free ride, then get there on your own.

Its definitely wasn’t a free ride for [RISE] coming to BG. Beating SoR and JQ is no easy task, they both have some very strong guilds. The last two weeks all of BG has been working hard for these wins. I would expect the scores to get much closer in the weeks to come.

Silly people thinking because someone posted a 2 minute video of him being a baller means that’s how good he is in every engagement.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Does-this-wvw-build-look-good-for-a-CnD/first#post1990378

This a thread from yesterday that I posted on. Its on the same build. I won’t say its the best but I’m very successful with it.

Well first, with “OP” in the title considering the resent everything is “OP” threads popping, this sounds like just another troll thread.

To the topic, I have to disagree with them being OP. Personally I think Towers and keeps are to easy to flip. Problem is the number of people used to flip objectives. If they scale it down so 20 people can reasonably take towers, It would make the 40-60 man zergs destroy everything with no resistance vs the little so some resistance that we have now. Another problem is what tier your in, I might be much harder for a lower tier to flip a fortified wall then in T1.

Normally people attacking fully upgraded keeps won’t expect to take it the first time they hit it. A lot of the time they will work on a wall like you did. That leaving the enemy 2 choices repair the wall (which now your clearing there supply) or leave it be (which helps you get the wall down) Go resupply your group and come back for another shot. These can end up being a war of attrition but that will normally work in the attackers favor as long as the don’t need to defend another area.

Now that this has a proper title I’ll make a comment.

I agree that the sentries should be able to kill unguarded yaks. Though I wouldn’t want them to nerf the defense on the yaks, rather buff the damage on sentries a bit.

While mist form into doors is annoying, it hasn’t changed so you know if you down a ele by a door you know he gets away, just don’t stand there waiting for him, go about your business.

What needs to be fix is when you down a ele, then they mist form, that counts as a death then a revive for eles so there WXP gets reset. Stomping them after mist form with reward you 0 WXP. That should be fixed before they focus on changing the way the skill works.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.1|8.1g.h4.8.1g.h17|5.1g.h1g|1p.a7.1p.a7.1p.a7.1p.a7.1p.a7.1p.a7|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.1c.67.1c.67.2s.0|0.u30c.u65b.a1.0|40.1|57.5c.5h.5b.0|e

This is the build I use. I left The master trait blank because I’m very indifferent with which is really better. I like Practiced Tolerance for the little extra HP but since I’m to lazy to switch out signet of Shadows I use it quite often for the extra blind so Signet Use is nice. That said you can also go Signets of Power to get 5 stacks of might if you want to use it to burst a bit more. Its really up to what you think would help you more.

One thing I should note is if I’m running anywhere near my servers zerg I switch out Cloaked in Shadow for Shadow’s Embrace. You just don’t have enough Condition removal for those large spam everything fights.

Gear should be fine. I run the same build more or less but with valk gear/ruby orbs zerker rings/amulet and soldiers earrings.

For D/D I would drop “Combo Critical Chance” for a non condition thief DB is not used often enough to justify having the trait. But S/D may be a different story, I’m not sure if its worth it I don’t run S/D. Normally a build like this would go Hidden Killer for the 100% crit out of stealth but since you have over 50% crit you may not need it.

Most the time if your going 30 into shadow arts its for Shadows Rejuvenation for healing in stealth. Personally instead of Master of Deception I use Cloaked in Shadows for the blind on stealth.

As for acrobatics I prefer Descent of shadows because I like to jump off stuff and not die and the stealth from it can be nice some times.

This is what I use in WvW and do very well but that build would be fine. I can’t say either are the best, I just know I have a lot of success and fun with mine.

Based on speculation of what the trap will be. Its a trap, so it will be for a selected area, which means thieves will have a major disadvantage in these areas. That said, If you remove the revealed buff that would make thieves very powerful outside of these “traps” or fields.

Also depending on how it works, if it takes you out of stealth and keeps you out of stealth, you can’t get the revealed debuff.

IMO people trying to talk reasoning, don’t bother…there will always be the sky is falling threads any time something effects thieves. Any good thief won’t care and adapt. We did it when revealed was push to 4s, the mug thieves are doing it now. The more people that comment on this matter the more overhead the thread will get, just let it get buried.