Guild Wars 2

UncrushablePigeon.8760:

Yeah I can’t get in either, been trying for over 3 hours now.

Edit: I was able to get in before the latest fix too.

yes (waiting 2 hours and door does not open) and yes (door opened before the last patch).

Cormac.3871:

One of the big things that ANet will have to deal with is player perception of value. The one they should have foreseen is that they are taking a new approach to maps. 15 ordinary maps is about what people expect, but another Snowden Drifts would do nothing for. Nor, to be honest would another Southson Cove. Maps like Silverwaste on the other hand have long term potential. They should have really been aware that this would be a perception problem and not charged at a premium rate.

The perception problem also extends to features (new pvp mode/map, new wvw map, tyria masteries, etc. …) that are not sold as part of HoT but are (clearly) part of the development (costs) of HoT.

Vayne.8563:

You have to own HoT to have a guild hall. Non HoT players will not be able to enter the guild hall.

I remenber (maybe I am wrong) that someone from A-net said, that there will be a button in the guild menue, so that every guild member can travel from all maps to the guild hall. I concluded from that, that a player without HoT can travel to the guild hall, after the guild hall was claimed from players with HoT.

Did A-Net explicitly say that only players with HoT can enter the guild hall?

Dibaryon.7469:

You’re missing the point obastacle. These features you’ve mentioned were advertised in the pretext of the HoT expansion (check the first trailer).

Why do you think they decided to make WvW maps included in the base game? I’ll tell you what I think: so that we didn’t have half of the population stuck in old maps and the other half in the new maps (for example), and probably because of technical complications that would arise from this.

It’s probably the same with the rest of the content they’re putting on the base game. Don’t forget that these features are actually HoT features/content.

Yes they were announced in the pretext of the HoT expansion, but they are not included in the HoT expansion that you can buy (because the are included in the base game).

So, as a result, buyers of HoT seem to cross-subsidize the parts of HoT that will be available in the “base-game”.

I thought the new PvP Map, the new WvW map and the new guild halls will be available also to players that did not by HoT. Am I wrong?

Unloveableone.6082:

Many.8419:

Sorry but no.
Yes, designers are doing amazing work. And this work was destroyed one minute because of someone making a terrible marketing move. They should blame those responsible inside their own company. They are parts of the same company and the company is blamed as a whole.

I feel no pity here. This is bussiness. The company failed and company will take responsibility as a whole.

Glad you support the harassment of devs that had absolutely nothing to do with this. Shows a lot about you my friend.
I’m glad the feelings of those that have created GW2 means less to you than an extra 10 dollars.
How immature.

Harrassing people is never a good or legitimate way of reaction. I do not do or support harassement. A lot of people are overreaction, which is not good.

However, I do believe that someone in marketing or management (not the devs) did make a terrible mistake and that this mistake is the reason, why a lot of people are angry and that this overshadows discussions about the devs good work until there will be a statement from A-Net that admits (and corrects) the mistake.

I think blaming the company (as a whole) for this is right, but harrassing employees is not right.

ODB.6891:

Head Kracker.4790:

So the biggest thing we need right now is information. What are we getting for 50 dollars. What are the remaining specializations? How about breaking out some info for us to delve into that isn’t just media blurbs designed to raise hype.

I understand that the expansion is still in a beta state but if your willing for us to pay money for something that doesn’t have any concrete release date, how about showering us with information to make a reasonable choice so we can vote with our cash to see if the new thing is worth it?

This^

I could care less about the original game being bundled with HoT purchase. What I care about is the value I would get for my $50. I care about the additional content I would be getting for this purchase price. That is what an “expansion” is all about right?

Right.^

ODB.6891:

I find this evasiveness by ANET to be extremely sketchy. I don’t spend my money on sketchy. To launch pre-orders without even fully detailing exactly what will be in the expansion…that’s really shady. The reveals so far are not adding up to a purchase of the same price as the original entire game. They aren’t even offering a single character slot for what amounts to a repurchase of the original game. They are unclear on how many new maps/zones will be included. The meat of this “expansion” appears to be a rework of the trait system, legendary system, leveling system, and flawed designs for the original professions…essentially fixes to the original game that they apparently were intentionally withholding to sell to us instead.

The reveals so far seem to reveal that A-net itself seems to be unsure, what will be included in HoT. This does not increase trust in the company or the product.

And the rework of the trait system etc. will be included in the “base game”, so that does not count as value that is included in HoT. So A-Net has also a design and communication problem.

I do not care if we get 20 or 22 new maps but I do care if we got 3 or 30 new maps. Just as an example.

And if we only got maps in “silverwaste-ish” condensed form, will that be really fun? A-Net has shown in the past, that sometimes when they try to improve things, they make it worse (“Verschlimmbesserung”).

ODB.6891:

Despite all of that, I’d still buy a GW2 expansion.

In the end, I will probably still buy it before the next beta-weekend.^^

ODB.6891:

I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in my skepticism concerning this expansion at the moment. They need to step up with some honesty and reveal exactly what this “expansion” is going to include. They need to re-evaluate the importance of existing players…versus only focusing on grabbing new players. Who releases an “expansion” with this little content and does not even include a new character slot?

I think it is right to raise this concerns and I think you are not the only one that has this concerns.

Witte.3160:

I will not pay a single cent if the whole list of content to be expected isn’t made public.

I think this is one of the best ways to handle this.

Vote with your wallet. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it.

piano man.1672:

To be honest, I was fully expecting a $40-$50 price tag for the expansion. I personally don’t have a problem with that price. If the issue is with the price, then that’s fine – it’s your opinion, and you should let Arena Net know you’re not interested in paying that much for Heart of Thorns based on what we currently know the expansion contains. If you don’t feel $50 is an appropriate price for what we currently know the expansion contains, then wait for more information to be released and decide for yourself if $50 is worth it. The only benefit you get from pre-purchasing now is a title and full beta access to all HoT betas (as far as the standard package goes).

And I think this is really some of the underlying reasons for some the rage.

$50 seems too expensive for what we now about the content that is included in the expansion. A-Net wants a “big pricetag” but it does not yet look like a “big expansion”.

If most people would think that we get an excellent value for the $50 there would be less complaints.

Thats why I wait with my pre-purchase decision until they revealed all that is included in HoT.

I expected around $50 as a price for the expansion, it is not an unusual price. And I do not care if they include the base game for new players. And I have already have a free character slot.

But A-Net has not shown/announced enough new content that is included in HoT to justify this high price. So I will definitely not buy it now and will wait until they show all that will be in HoT.

Pandaman.4758:

Do you believe the expansion is worth $50 though?

No, I don’t. But right now we do not know the full content that is included in HoT.

Maybe it is worth $50 for me when I know all content, that is included in HoT.

Raziel.4216:

Zok.4956:

As long as there is no scientific proof, that no deities exists, atheism is a form of belief.

That form of thinking wouldn’t get too far, that’s like saying as long as there’s no scientific proof that I have fairies in my garden, you saying that they dont is a matter of belief.

Do you believe that the universe was created by some form of “deity” or do you believe that the universe created itself or do you believe that the universe was “always there” and was never created or do you believe nothing of the above?

(and with “universe” I mean the universe including the moment of the “big bang”).

Science can not answer why there was a “big bang” and what was before the “big bang”. So the answer to the above question depends not on scientific evidence or proof, but on your belief.

Thats what I meant originally. And it was not about the kids that are playing halloween in your garden.

cocowoushi.7150:

August still seems very optimistic to me; they still have so much to turn out in just a couple of months if so.

I think A-Net is doing Agile software development with skritt and scrum. ^^

That means: They have a release date set and then they release what they have finished until that date.

(no, just kidding.)

MigukNamja.1538:

Gem cash store aside, GW2’s business managers have no compelling reason to keep players around beyond the initial sale. Hence, the de-emphasis of end-game content.

The Gem cash store is a very important reason to keep players around.

“playtime equals money to us”,
“The more we can get people to log in, day after day, and play, … about some time, the more money we can make.” – ArenaNet’s head of marketing, Steve Fowler in video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLslqhBn3PU

NoTrigger.8396:

hardcore content is never the reason why a game fails.

When a game fails it is never just because one reason. There are always several reasons for a fail.

NoTrigger.8396:

nexxe.7081:

Should there be challenging content for those who want it? Sure, but it needs to be balanced for all playstyles, otherwise you will neglect everyone else who doesn’t want challenging content.

and this makes even less sense, if not no sense at all.

Actually, it does.

NoTrigger.8396:

you cant neglect everyone who doesnt want challenging content by creating challenging content. why? if they dont want it they simply dont have to play it.
yeah, it is that easy.

Every player has a different level what “challenging” means for his or her playstyle.

So there could be in instances an easy/normal/hard-mode-button to choose different “challenge levels”. “easy” for players that want to experience the content/story like a “walk in the park” or feel that this matches their expectation of “challenging”. And “hard” for players that want to “bite the bullet”.

Rikimaru.7890:

There are 2 things which cause the core of the problem:

1) THERE IS NO SYNERGY!

My opinion: this is not a problem.

Rikimaru.7890:

2) There is no failure – we cannot fail at all. How do you expect anything to be challanging if we can’t fail no matter what, but simply try and try again untill we get it right.

Yes we can fail, because thats why we have to try it then again.

It seems you want, that failure has much more negative consequences to players.

Rikimaru.7890:

So yeah these are the causes why GW2 is so bad right now – no synergy and no failiure as without it there is no challange.

That is an interesting opinion. But I don’t share that opinion.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Can we expect the AI changes to be placed on currently-existing open-world, or is that not feasible.

They said sometime this year, that they have thought about this for the existing open world bosses and would like to do that, but think that it is (for now) better to focus on creating new content than changing the existing one.

MiniEquine.6014:

This was not done for the same reasons that religious theocracies or dictatorships did them, as “atheism” is not a set of beliefs or guiding principles, but merely the lack of a belief in a theocratic religion. It’s a bit of a nuance, but it’s an important distinction none-the-less.

The lack of a belief in a theocratic religion is not atheism.

Atheism is the belief that there are no deities (in a broader sense: it is the rejection of theism).

As long as there is no scientific proof, that no deities exists, atheism is a form of belief.

silvermember.8941:

It isn’t always about improving gameplay, yes we can all agree it will. Nobody here is arguing that having Dx 11 support isn’t going to be beneficial, so effectively you are arguing against a point one disagrees with.

The issue here is, it is WORTH the cost to ARENANET.

Is improving the game worth the cost to A-Net?

Is making a very good product (and not just an “ok” product) worth the cost to a company?

Some companies think they can sell a “just OK” product and make a lot of money.
Some other companies want to create an outstanding product, thats better than most of the other similar products of their competitors. Both are valid business decisions.

So, the next question is: What kind of company is A-Net? In the past they have shown they want to create a product thats better than the products of their competitors.

In the art department they have succeded (my opinion). In the “graphics engine and game engine department” they have not and they are even “a few years” behind competitors.

How important is a better graphics/game engine for A-Net? Not very important, I suppose.

But it will become more important if reviews say things like “nice art but outdated graphics engine” and if more and more customers demand it. Because thats how it could have an influence on sales.

How likely will this happen? I do not know.

Jerus.4350:

See that’s my fear, that they take the organizational challenging and ignore the execution and personal challenge aspects.

Triple Wurm is actually very easy, it’s just about getting enough bodies who understand what to do.

So the challenge there is herding cats, not anything else. I’ll admit it’s a form of challenge, but not one I’d consider fun, just frustrating. As no matter how good you are, you can only do so much and you have to watch as others kitten it up even though you told them exactly how to do it and showed them exactly where to be.

That sounds exactly like in my old days when I was regularly raiding in Rift (10 and 20 man raids).

The raid leader was “herding and entertaining cats” and all other players had just to do what the raid leader told them and had to be where the raid leader told them to be.

Even “challenging group content” like a raid becomes easier in time. Thats when a raid gets “farm status” (and it is after that mostly done only to train other players and get gear).

Satenia.9025:

Been wondering about that as well… still holding my breath till I get to see the warrior spec

(… and please no “monsterhunter” :> )

No, it will be dragoncrusher. Or dragonslayer.

Gibson.4036:

I expect the beta event was supposed to be the bells and whistles for this week.

That would mean that there are no “bells and whistles” at all this week for all the players, that did not take part in the closed beta.

Malediktus.3740:

Its a game. Real life ethics and morals do not apply here.

Of course they do. Like in every other fictional work. Otherweise we would not be able to “connect” to a story. And how we perceive a story is based on our own morals and ethics.

Emiko.3217:

… have you ever thought of making movies out of them?

I hope they don’t.

That map (and the tyria 3D-website) are amazing.

We do not know why the map was removed. Did A-Net found out, that the map “does not work” or that they had not enough ressources to finish it? Maybe it was too linear. Maybe it was too big for a dungeon/raid instance. Maybe it was for a WvW-gamemode that was canceled.

But I think that this map was in a late development stage when it was deleted. Because it was already included in the client and it is a big detailed map. So there was a lot of time and money invested in building this map.

But because A-Net is working on HoT now, I do not think that they are able to put much work in finishing this map in the near future.

Devildoc.6721:

IMO I find it pretty boring and soulless to grind out xp bars at this point. I was actually getting quite fond of just plain ignoring the xp bar.

what I thought masteries would be like would be almost like a zelda/metroidvania like system where you had to find upgrades to get to new places (or in our case mastery points to upgrade our masteries and go new places) but that xp grind between acquiring a mastery point and being able to do something with is yawn. It feels like a chore rather than fun.

In “most other games”, when an expansion launches you get an new max-level and new max-level gear you have to grind XP for. With the HoT expansion, that max-level does not change but you grind XP for masteries.

So this way in HoT is kind of better than in “most other games”, but you can still call it a grind.

They seem only to implement the zelda/metroidvania idea, that you need special abilities (masteries) to master the new content, but not the way how you aquire those abilities/masteries.

Valento.9852:

There’s been none. It’s like “oh look, we’re doing an xpac that’s all about mechanics and laying the groundwork, etc, and because of that no new content for ya, sorry everyone is too busy”.

Yes. I am not excited about things in HoT that are “laying the groundwork” for some other things that are coming sometime (maybe, if they are not being reworked before) in the future after HoT but not yet within HoT.

GW2 ist designed (at least in PvE, well mostly) that players play not competitive but cooperative. You should “be happy” to see other players is one of the game basics.

However, there are in PvE some situations where different playstyles clash. That can lead to some kind of “competitive playing” and that can result in situations, where things could become negative or even “toxic”.

If people insult you, you can and should report them.

I also was on that little island (a few weeks ago) and killed some critters before I realized that I was interfering with others players that were already playing a game there.

Because I did not wanted to interrupt them, a little “sry, dont’t know” did the magic and everybody still was friendly.

There is no excuse for insults and every player should respect the playstyle of other players.

That means (for me) that the farmers there should not insult others and that means that others should not try to troll or provoke/disrupt the candycorn farmers on that little remote island.

Test.8734:

It’s very hard to feel hype for HoT. Look at what ArenaNet says:

At first I thought your are too sarcastic. But then I read …

Test.8734:

“Hey guys! Since you all like Silverwastes (and of course that’s because you love playing the same event over and over, not because it’s one of the most profitable things in the game), we will make the entire expansion like it! Be ready to grind the same thing over and over while fighting the same three of four enemy models!”

… and these are exactly my thoughts, too.

But I still hope that the new maps will be different and much better.

BrotherBelial.3094:

So with all the hype that built up between the end of LWS2, and the announcement at PAX east, how many of you are still on the Hype Train?

I was not hyped but excited when they made the annoucement at PAX east.

What they have shown so far looks interesting but I still am not sure if this would be fun to play. I am more interested in new PvE-maps/content, guild content and good storytelling but not so much interested in PvP, WvW or changes in trait lines etc…

BrotherBelial.3094:

Having ANet show things off, then say this is not final just makes me think, “it looks cool now, but it probably wont be like that at all come launch.”

I agree. I also think that this shows that there is still a long way ahead to the release date.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Would you have proffered ANet to show us things when they “where ready”? Instead of half done traits and skills that will.probably.not be as good as they look?

It is good that they show this to us as early as possible. Thats what a lot of players have asked for.

People assume that time is a strict progression from cause to effect, but …

Sounds like they are implementing features in WvW, i.e. automatic upgrades after a Dolyak arrives, they have tested before in the silverwastes map.

Than they really should change their announcement. The portal drop announcement is still on the forum start page:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The game is 3-years old; I expect it to have 2012 graphics, not 2015.

Even when the game was new the graphics engine was not “state of the art” or “best in slot”.

The “artistic quality” of the environment/maps/etc was and is great. But not the graphics engine itself.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Then you might just wanna go on Elder Scrolls Online.

I played ESO and I think the results of the graphics engine are much better than in GW2. However: For “artistic quality” and the “rest of the game” I like GW2 much more.

The wish to have a better graphics engine in GW2 is legit. But the chances that GW2 gets a new or better graphics engine or that the existing graphics/game-engine will support DX11 etc.. are not very high in my opinion.

Morpheus Kajiir.2975:

Yes well obviously I’m not going to bother now that I know it’s true. Doesn’t it bother anyone else that the game is like this?

If the game would be centered about a legendary, yes I would be bothered. But it is not. A legendary is not needed for any kind of content. It is pure cosmetically for people that want/accept this “long term goal”.

Morpheus Kajiir.2975:

You paid for a game, after seeing all those cool armor and weapon sets, just to learn that in order to have them you have to play it to an unhealthy level, and then, play it even farther to, what looks like, an obsessive disorder.

Have you played other MMO games? Every MMO tries to keep the player in the game with things to do, even if the “main content” (maps, story, …) is already done. Some say, a MMO is, by its core, designed to be addictive and time consuming.

GW2 is much more “casual playstyle friendly” than the other MMO games you mentioned. If you want to play them instead of GW2 you may could be surprised negatively.

Sarrs.4831:

Aranvar le Voyageur.7521:

Please could you stop to wall every topic about ascended with “No”, its becoming really annoying to have an intelligent discussion about it.

The OP asked a very straightforward question

CookieMonster.5869:

Does anyone else think it is totally not fair that we have to grind this time gated gear out?

to which there is a simple answer.

Altair.8402:

No.

Well, if I understand the meaning of “anyone” right, as long as there is (somewhere) at least one person, that thinks “it is totally not fair that …” the only correct answer has to be “Yes” to that question.

Jahroots.6791:

Luck should never have been an item, the bar should just fill up automatically as we salvage.

Clearly there’s been some industry research that links mouse clicks with player satisfaction or something. That’s the most rational explanation for some of this game’s design (essences luck, excess junk to salvage, ‘nesting doll’ type chests).

Maybe.

But there is actual research that links excessive mouse clicks with repetitive strain injury (RSI). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_strain_injury

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Also, Star Wars technology is still more believable than Tequatl.

Lifting a space ship out of a swamp just by using “The Force” is more believable?
I don’t think so.

Its just another kind of magic.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

There is no way in hell something as big as Tequatl can fly.

That he does is proof that he can.

It is no a science game, not even science fiction, it is a fantasy game. So use your fantasy and imagination but not your logic.

MrRuin.9740:

Zok.4956:

I do not share your pessimistic view.

How is it pessimistic to assume the supposedly random drop system is actually random? Or to know what its primary function is?

I meant your view of how A-Net thinks and why they did or didn’t do/change things.

MrRuin.9740:

Its not pessimistic, it’s realistic.

Thats what every pessimist says.

MrRuin.9740:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

why do we have a purely random system? What’s so great about purely random? Why is that the status quo? Wouldn’t a semi-random system which broke both bad and good streaks be better? everyone would get lucky sometimes but no one would be super rich from drops or super poor from lack of drops.

This is the status quo because it keeps people grinding. Its this basic reason why Anet will not divulge their RNG, why they will not give a concrete answer and why its very highly unlikely that they would bother to set up a system that favored anyone.

I do not share your pessimistic view.

Actually, a few months ago, A-Net started a CDI and asked the players about the RNG, if they liked it and how the players think it should better be changed.

Other CDIs from that time resulted in some developments/changes. So I assume that the RNG system will also be changed in the near future in somes parts (to the better…).

Galen Grey.4709:

RNG is RNG if it didnt behave wierdly now and again it wouldnt be working correctly.

Acting wierdly sometimes is not proof that the loot distribution system is working without errors nor is it proof for the opposite.

Galen Grey.4709:

Is the random number generator broken?

no…

That is an assumption/opinion but you have no proof for that.

Maybe something in the “loot distribution system” is broken, maybe not. As players we have not enough data to proof one or the other.

Elias.3204:

And now, I’m wondering, would a warrior or ranger fix that for me? Have I just played squishy classes thus far? Or is the grass just looking greener everywhere else?

No class can compensate for a bad playing style. (no offense intended)

The difference in “squishiness” between warrier/guardian and ele is quite noticable.

If you have problems to learn your class and use all the skills, I would suggest you roll a warrior. He is quity tanky from the start without using “special skills” and with defensive gear even more tankier/robust. If you have problems with melee use a longbow etc. for the warrior and you do not need to melee.

However: This comes with a DPS loss. If you play alone you will notice that it takes much longer to kill enemies.

But maybe that helps you to survive longer and to understand and use your skills better, so you maybe get better in playing, die less, and will have more fun doing it.

sarasvatri.6871:

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, in my opinion there should be streak breakers, or other methods of negating the “low outlier” experience. That is however not because RNG is broken (since it isn’t), but because it is working right (which has some negative consequences).

This is the most interesting bit I’ve gotten out of any of these posts.

That was also a result, a few months ago, when A-Net asked in the forum how the random number loot distribution should be made better.

It is Ok, that some people get more “lucky drops” than others and feel lucky.
But on the “low outlier” side should be made some adjustements, because there seem to be too much people that feel “unlucky” and that they can nothing do about changing their bad-luck in the game.

And: A perfectly working random number generator is not unfair by itself, but neutral. But applying “random distribution” to some aspects of the game, makes the game in this aspects, to players that want to achieve something, feel grindy and unfair.

Devata.6589:

Zok.4956:

Devata.6589:

People who leave comments like you do seem to think stats is what it’s all about and should be all about for everybody, but thats simply not how it works in an MMO. Many people care more for a cool looking mini then ascended stats.

This thread has the title: “No grind philosophy”

The communicated “not grind philosopy” from A-Net for GW2 is ONLY about stats/levels. It is not about looks, achievements, legendaries, etc, etc…

Thats why some people focus on stats when we talk about the “no grind philosophy”, because for everything else there is no “no grind philosopy” in this game.

Anet indeed said that (2,5 years after release) but if you read OP’s post he clearly talks about cosmetics, and besides that, you see this being mentioned in many grind topics, also those that don’t have the name ‘no grind philosophy’.

But this thread has the title “no grind philosophy” . So, are you saying, OP choose a wrong title because he/she did not understand A-Nets “no grind philosophy” ?

yolo swaggins.2570:

Now even though technology has made it possible to generate “truely” random numbers, it doesn’t mean anet has that technology. In fact, that is highly improbable. It would be financially impractical and unprofitable compared to the bullet points I provided above.

I think your conclusions and your opinion about “highly improbable” are wrong.

The technology to create pseudo random numbers that are so random/unpredictable that they can not be distinguished from “truely” random numbers in the context of this game is in no way expensive, impractical or improbable.

And about your speculations about business-decisions: Same results could be achieved with unbiased random numbers.

To be clear. I do not say the RNG is borked, nor do I say it is not.

But every software developer knows, that every software, that is not trivial, has (unknown) bugs. So there is a possibility, that the software for the “random loot distribution” actually still has bugs and that we see the results of that. We do not have proof that it has bugs and we do not have proof, that it does not have bugs. But software bugs are still a possibility.

Devata.6589:

People who leave comments like you do seem to think stats is what it’s all about and should be all about for everybody, but thats simply not how it works in an MMO. Many people care more for a cool looking mini then ascended stats.

This thread has the title: “No grind philosophy”

The communicated “not grind philosopy” from A-Net for GW2 is ONLY about stats/levels. It is not about looks, achievements, legendaries, etc, etc…

Thats why some people focus on stats when we talk about the “no grind philosophy”, because for everything else there is no “no grind philosopy” in this game.

Michael.9403:

really? The flag came up just as soon as I’d zoned in.
Why to I get zoned in to a map they want to empty?
What zone control theorycraft am I missing.

Yes, that happened a few times to me too.

Last time it was in Sparkfly Fen, when I was asked 4 times ( I map switched every time, so I switched maps 4 times) to switch maps in around one minute.

I assumed at that time that the Tequatl event was finished and there were then a lot of empty map instances and the reallocation logic did not check if the new map instance was also an empty map instance that would be closed.