Guild Wars 2

My guess it is some case of being out of sync with the server for a brief moment. It seems like when you get knocked down in that condition, instead of going through axis X, goes to Y.

I remember having a laugh a couple of years ago when happened the first time with me in WvW while doing a 2v1 against a ranger and a guardian and got hit by Point Blank Shot. There I was on serious mode, determined to win that fight, then all of sudden flying really high.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

azyume.6321:

NiloyBardhan.9170:

azyume.6321:

lol what?

Condichrono in PvP is so underpowered compared to WvW. If you are having trouble, go to WvW and find a good mesmer to duel. After that, will see how easy is to sustain and kill them in PvP with the proper tools, aka condition cleanse.

Oh really? As a warrior main, how many condi cleanse do I have?
Shouts with soldier rune? Then you can’t take endure pain/zerker stance in this meta against power creeps and condi application far exceeds whatever a warrior can cleanse in a given point of time.
Cleansin Ire? Yeah, blind on shatter and go invisible and laugh at the warrior while he performs the burst attack lol.
Berserker stance? Stay invisible for 9 sec and then bomb him with 8 stacks each of confusion, torment, bleed, etc.

You have the cleanse, if don’t use it, is your decision. Can’t cry about conditions when you use zero cleanse. Also, pvp is a team thing, condichrono is almost close to useless in a team fight, if you are putting yourself in a situation with 1v1 against a condi profession when you, yourself takes zero cleanse, well, that’s not a good idea.

However, my advise still stands. I have beat condichrono’s with warrior in WvW, have friends who had as well, and there isn’t something more broken than that regarding conditions. Go check it out then will see PvP isn’t as bad as people cry out to be and very much counter-able.

Did you even read what I wrote? Cleansing once doesn’t stop the condi applier from spamming it again (not to mention mesmers can burst condis from STEALTH). Condi cleanse are usually on high CDs whereas condi applications are not. Add to that, condi cleanse is very limited to certain classes (warrs for eg.)

Yes, I’d love too see a video of your warrior ripping apart a condi mesmer (provided the mesmer isn’t a first timer). Thanks!

I am sorry, but staff attack is so slow and scepter is a joke. They can stack confusion and torment and when that happens, that’s when you cleanse. Most people I’ve seen fighting a condi mesmer dies because uses the cleanse at the wrong time. Besides, reflection is your best friend, mesmer can do almost nothing if their projectiles are being reflected, which gives time to help manage the cool downs.

Anyway, instead of asking to nerf the only thing working at the moment for mesmer, granted in 1v1 situation, how about asking better sustain for warrior as we all know it is lacking?

NiloyBardhan.9170:

azyume.6321:

lol what?

Condichrono in PvP is so underpowered compared to WvW. If you are having trouble, go to WvW and find a good mesmer to duel. After that, will see how easy is to sustain and kill them in PvP with the proper tools, aka condition cleanse.

Oh really? As a warrior main, how many condi cleanse do I have?
Shouts with soldier rune? Then you can’t take endure pain/zerker stance in this meta against power creeps and condi application far exceeds whatever a warrior can cleanse in a given point of time.
Cleansin Ire? Yeah, blind on shatter and go invisible and laugh at the warrior while he performs the burst attack lol.
Berserker stance? Stay invisible for 9 sec and then bomb him with 8 stacks each of confusion, torment, bleed, etc.

You have the cleanse, if don’t use it, is your decision. Can’t cry about conditions when you use zero cleanse. Also, pvp is a team thing, condichrono is almost close to useless in a team fight, if you are putting yourself in a situation with 1v1 against a condi profession when you, yourself takes zero cleanse, well, that’s not a good idea.

However, my advise still stands. I have beat condichrono’s with warrior in WvW, have friends who had as well, and there isn’t something more broken than that regarding conditions. Go check it out then will see PvP isn’t as bad as people cry out to be and very much counter-able.

lol what?

Condichrono in PvP is so underpowered compared to WvW. If you are having trouble, go to WvW and find a good mesmer to duel. After that, will see how easy is to sustain and kill them in PvP with the proper tools, aka condition cleanse.

Aereniel.7356:

Just a friendly tip regarding carrying, not just for you specifically but to everybody in general. The most efficient carry profession/role is dependent on the level of play you are in. Please be aware that I’m talking generalities here, and everything I say might not apply to every single individual match. Support is not a very good carry in low-level games, because support is an enabler role. Even if you play like an elder god and support the heck out of your team mates, they will just continue to be potatoes and die left and right. All that space and time that you provide is a wasted effort and does not win games, because your inept team mates will find creative ways to f-up. Support becomes extremely valuable in mid tiers and higher up, when you can actually count on your team mates to make plays to a certain extent.

My advice for low to mid tiers is to play something like a revenant, necro or engi, because you can kill people, win team fights or carry side nodes. Good support players shine higher up, but in low-level games it’s an exercise in futility.

+1

Also, a support should never, ever be by themselves unless is for brief seconds for the team swap positions.

Support =/= Bunker

The support is actually doing their team a disservice by dueling or holding a point against 2. If they are with the revenant or reaper or both would shine and most likely cap the point instead of stalling things up.

People are so salty that they are being kittens.

@OP: As said you can report as bot, however if that person is heavily offending the players continually, can always try to reach for the GM Delicious Intent.5928 with the exact time, screenshots or video of said act.

I think you are mistaken, none of those professions meta is bunker.

With the amount of reapers around, if your teammate gets downed for a reaper or reapers and is swimming in poison, it is a waste of time to try the rez. Better let them die so can respawn fast and you disengage to manage the cooldowns and perhaps try a push for another point or if have enough DPS to take one of them down first safely, do it.

kuritsutian.2987:

Yup … a slap in the face to all those QQ saying…. Anet killed the ele … unplayable! reaper will eat us …..

Build variety is dead for ele. Before you could see some variants like staff marauder, d/d cele, staff cele, cleric staff, cleric d/d some traited for air or fire instead of the mandatory earth/water/tempest and even in rare occasions scepter/focus fresh air .

The tempests at finals were using cleric and dagger/focus support shout healbot build. Besides that build, if you use something else feels like you are accomplishing nothing and being a dead weight for your team.

Great for those who likes to be a healbot but for other players, like myself and the ones that are QQ’ign as you say, we want to play something else, we want to play more offensively.

Yes and I’d even advocate for downed penalty as well. Bring the whole package.

Problem is when people ask to nerf scrapper survivability, interesting enough, they point out for a core trait line, alchemy. So they aren’t really asking for scrapper nerf, but an engineer nerf.

I’d rather anet worked on scrapper only and leave the core traits alone. As of now, engi still have a chance against elite specs, nerf that and will be another core gone into oblivion along with the others.

High sustain right now is scrapper, can tank in a most impressive way while using marauder amulet.

While I haven’t tested but paladin amulet sounds like it is something like the old rifle soldier engi (good damage, incredible sustain) besides that, as pointed, another recommended profession would be druid.

Paulie.6215:

Vieux P.1238:

1-1-1-1-1…no combo needed 1-1-1…thief wins.. yay… no skill’s required.

If you’re dying to auto attacks it’s definitely a L2P issue.

If I was to guess, I’d say that is a sarcasm to the fact that now the auto attack chain hits harder than a well prepared and executed backstab.

Aggrostemma.1703:

I’m with ya!

OK lets nerf the TrueShot’s damage down to MB level… Do not forget that the ONLY ability what is not a DPS loss compared to AA-ing the crap out of people is the TS.

But please:

#3: Deflecting Shot: Make it Projectile Finisher and a Block for 1.5 sec.
#4: Symbol of Energy: this ability gives (Vi…haha…vi….hahahha….VI…hahahha
I can’t…hahaha…) Vigor… For 3 whopping seconds! Muhahahaha!!!! Change it to give Fury for 5 seconds!
#5: The final impact Chills for 2 seconds or the final impact is Unblockable…

Here we go!

Do people realize long bow falls into the same category as the others 2 hand weapons from guardian? It is more inclined to support/defense than offense?

Are you really complaining about a 3 seconds of vigor per pulse, it takes 4 seconds to trigger the vigor, so we have 8 seconds of vigor on a 15 seconds cool down? It is pretty standard, compared to, you know, all the others symbols:

Symbol of Wraith: 20 seconds cd, 5 seconds of retaliation;
Symbol of Faith: 8 seconds cd; 5 seconds of regeneration;
Symbol of Protection: 3 seconds protection;
Symbol of Swiftness: 14 seconds cd; 4 seconds of swiftness per pulse (x5)

True Shot needs a longer cool down, ranged weapon shouldn’t deal that damage on such low cool down.

runeblade.7514:

BlackBeard.2873:

coax.2951:

You realise stacking over half a minute of protection with one overload, AoE, was incredibly broken, right?

Kind of true, but in a way kind of not. On its face, it is relatively broken, but given the insane overload cost and the fact that overload earth doesn’t do anything else substantial it was relatively balanced. To clarify, overload earth, while probably having the longest description due to all the garbage attached to it in an attempt to make it worthwhile, did basically nothing besides grant prot. The damage/bleeds are minimal, the final 4s immob takes too long to get and has almost no meaning with everyone taking insane amounts of condi cleanse (due to other classes), the blast finisher is just ….why? (a blast 5s from a cast is all but impossible to use). You will always get more now by just swapping out and coming back, both in the short and long term.

I agree with the change, as it now normalizes earth overload with the other overloads (besides air) as skills that should basically never be cast. Fire is acceptable for downed cleave, but you don’t want to use it in the middle of a fight as being locked out of fire for 20s means no pressure.

20 second cooldown while having 20 other skills is costly to you?

Okay then.

I think you missed the bold part of the argument. Anyway, yes, we don’t need to worry to be locked out of the pressure skills for 20s since now we have the new improved all mighty SHATTERSTONE!

Forestgreen.7981:

Aren’t eles ridiculously mobile and with insane healing sustain. Aren’t they pretty much taking the same role as thief where you +1 but instead of being selfish like a thief, an ele brings boons out the wazzoo and make everyone on your team unkillable.

No. What was keeping tempest alive during previous meta, believe or not, was the chronobunker. Tempest alone would melt in a few seconds during a team fight.

With the removal of the celestial amulet, the nerf change to diamond skin and the auras, eles/tempest don’t have the sustain people were used to see back on the day of the cele d/d.

The only build which have the mobility people claim all the time is the cantrip d/d and now there is shout traited with zephyr’s boon which is a waste to use 20+ seconds cd shouts or dagger auras for 5 seconds of swiftness unless your intention is to cross the whole map without fighting.

That quote came from the new matchmaking rules where someone said they needed to to remove the algorithm from the matchmaking to lower the chances of rosters having stacked professions. Evan explained, per request, why a change on the algorithm wouldn’t have such influence in the rosters and what changed comparing class stacking before and after the update to the rules (as to why they weren’t so abundant before as asked):

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sure! To get in the right mindset, it helps to understand the goal of the matchmaker a bit. When comparing two rosters, we first assume they are a perfect match with a score of ‘0’. We then reduce this score for things like how far apart the ratings are, difference in party sizes, etc. This way we can decide if one roster is a better choice than another when filling up teams because one roster will have a higher score.

Before and after the change, we reduce the score of a roster if it contains profession duplicates over the desired(configurable) maximum for a team. However before the change, we were also increasing the score of a roster if it had professions that were not yet on the team. They were both trying to accomplishing the same goal.

The are three problems with the second part; the piece we removed. First, increasing the score of a roster effectively cancels out some of the negative scoring we added for other parameters. For example, a roster could have a poor rating match, but ‘oh well, they have unique professions!’ Second, the score was erroneously given to the first roster added to a team, so each profession was guaranteed to be considered unique and result in a score increase. Thirdly, the matchmaker has no choice in picking unique professions when dealing with large premades, but their rosters were still getting huge score increases because most of the time it had 5 unique professions. All combined, this meant premade rosters were getting a score increase that cancelled out most if not all negative aspects of the match up.

After this change we’ve seen the win rates of larger premades drop a noticeable amount. Now that rating differences aren’t being lost in scoring due to profession bonuses, we can see that the party rating boost was too high (which we’ve now lowered).

I’d like to say that this change was a direct result of a screenshot posted to the forums. While investigating the details of the match, I saw that a premade had a wildly abnormal score in relation to the other rosters. So thank you for the feedback!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/New-Matchmaking-rules/first#post5952756

briggah.7910:

Oh something like this? In video as soon as I use my 4 skill I get stuck in place, I tele to a new spot to try and fix it and that didn’t work either..

https://youtu.be/uf-uHguqCOY

I haven’t noticed it with taunt but I have ran into it after using a movement skill and sometimes even after a dodge I’m stuck in place..

like the above post, they only thing I found that fixes it is to do an emote. Its is really annoying though..

An emote usually breaks that stuck effect. Problem is to do it mid of fight while under heavy pressure.

Any movement skill can trigger that bug like burning retreat, rocket charge, mighty blow, flashing blade, savage leap, unrelenting assault and etc.

brannigan.9831:

Lots of classes have been out of meta for long periods of time much longer then Ele. Stop whining you’ve been mediocre for a day. You were kings forever. Shut up already people that play classes like thief, warrior, and guardian don’t what to hear it. Even if what you are saying is true as far as Im concerned you still below a bunch of classes for immediate fixes.

So the excuse is that other professions has been out of meta for longer period? That is a motive to keep overbuffing and overnerfing professions? I, honestly, cannot understand certain players in this game. It is seems like they want everything on fire, as long as don’t touch their own profession. That’s not the path to go, that’s not what a balanced game should be.

Anyway, are you enjoying the reaper buffs?

foogison.5067:

This is what Anet doesn’t want, they don’t want every single person playing this game to always shift to whats considered OP, they want this game to be as diverse as possible, although it may not always seem like it.

Here is where you are wrong. If Anet wanted to have such diversity, they wouldn’t overnerf and overbuff a couple of professions as they have been doing for a long time. If anet wanted to achieve the closest possible of diversity, they would work on balance to bring the most professions as possible to the meta, instead of only 3 or 4 out of 9.

They have been doing lazy patches trying to fix symptoms instead of the real problem. As long as they keep doing that, will keep destroying the diversity. It is way past time to the devs to sit down, learn how professions works, split pvp and pve and go review all the skills, traits, sigils, amulets, weapons from core to elite and bring an harmony and balance between them instead of silly fixes that only annoys players.

A good player who have the best game interest in mind, will drop any vendetta or silly biased hatred over a profession just because counters theirs and will claim for a balanced game where all or almost all professions are viable to play.

That’s what some has been doing, the overnerfs were unnecessary and poor handled. Instead of shaving the boon spam, they buff necros; bunker meta was boring, get rid of any single bunker amulet and buff damage from already high damage dealing professions. They announce the new diamond skin but “forgets” to include an important detail it only works when struck. People complain about the lack of viability of different builds, like in case bunker ele, they nerf bunker ele giving absolutely nothing to make up for it. They said the elite specs wouldn’t be stronger than the core but here we are. It is lazy, it is bad and it is making the credibility of this game go down the drain.

People don’t want to drop their professions because, in a certain way, anet said: let’s trash that profession now for, at least 4 months, make it hardly playable. We want things to be balanced and fair and be able to play with the professions we like, not what anet decided to overbuff for the time being to stay competitive.

Your build is odd at the very least. Also, scepter doesn’t offer the insta spike you claim at all. You will be lucky if running full offensive with marauder or berseker with scholar and phoenix hit for 5k.

Traits:
Ferocious Winds gives 7% of ferocity, but it will only have a considerate impact on skills with high coefficient a.k.a burning speed, churning earth, meteor shower, dragon’s tooth and phoenix. Unless your intention is to camp fire attunement, you are pretty much wasting a trait.

Lighting Rod:
It has a better synergy with staff due to its AoE particularity. Usually, for scepter, you want to take advantage of blinding flash and lighting strike to increase the dps and momentary defense, in order to do it so, you take fresh air.

Arcana: whoever doesn’t have HoT will need to take arcana trait, however Tempest is a better choice between the two if viable. Specially for a build using scepter, the overloads will be a huge benefit.

Utilities:
Heal: as much as I like ether renewal, it have a huge cast, making the ele vulnerable to daze/stuns, which if happens you are kittened up due to the low amount of heal per pulse. In the middle of this CC wars that is happening, it is risky to use that heal, unless you are completely alone with no imminent threat or save obsidian flash for the heals.

Lighting Hammer is just bad, great for PvE, but really bad for PvP. You are better off using glyph of elemental power for a stunbreak, signet of earth or glyph of storms for a dps increase. (example: mid fight, everyone busy, use glyph of storms, air overload then phoenix and dragon’s tooth, finishing off with lighting strike combo)

Earth Armor: really with the amount of reapers around, will just be a waste, the boon will be insta corrupted into fear. I’d take Lighting Flash instead.

Tornado: really only works if is a 2v1 in your favor. Conjure Fiery Greatsword is specter friendly since gives mobility and damage.

Bazzar of the Four Winds introduced the recipe for PvE celestial gear.

PvP had access to celestial jewel way before that. I wasn’t here during beta and release, came a couple of months later but people says the jewel has been in game since then. As for a substantial proof, here’s a thread dated from November 5th 2012 mentioning celestial stats for Ele builds:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/How-to-get-a-Large-Health-Pool-in-sPvP/first#post645962

Bit disappointing to see Anet choose the easiest path regarding the boon spam. Instead of shaving each profession to make them balanced with self and shared boons, they decided to turn necros and reapers into boon corrupt machines.

I truly see no reason (with a competitive perspective) whatsoever to keep playing a power based necro/reaper now when they pushed so hard towards conditions via boon corruption.

Food for the thought: how would a Change Name Contract weight on name wipes?

Would that costumer who bought the gems with real life money be flagged for a refund?

WhiteRabbit.6931:

azyume.6321:

Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

Calling staff a condition weapon is very funny… Its something that kinda become a thing here in gw2. calling it that… Let me explain why I dont agree…

Winds of chaos apply 1 stack of bleeding (7 sec), 1 stack of burning (1 sec) and 1 stack of vulnerability (5 sec)… ONE STACK, for a VERY SHORT DURATION and that ORB is MOVING very SLOW!!!

Chaos armor sure give some condition, but is also have huge cd… To apply conditions u dont want rely on that one lol…

Chaos storm same argument here, and has long cd aswell…

Just because you take a weapon and give it 1 stack of a condition on some skill, I wouldnt call it a pure “condition weapon”… But lets play with that word then… Why is the duration so low, and why so few stacks, why so long time until you can apply it to enemy after you press skill…

I think I trade that 1 stack of named condition, with very few stacks and duration, for some nice sustained dmg… I do that trade any time of the week…

That staff isnt going to kill anything, unless they afk or something… Or u really think 1 stack bleed (7sec), burning (1sec) and vulnerability (5sec), is gg condi dmg!? And that is going to make a change in that PvP team battle of yours!? kitten please…

You dont want it to get sustain dmg buff, but still wanna call it condition weapon!?

Then buff condition duration, give way more stacks and increase moving speed on that orb!

Scepter on the other hand I would agree call a condi weapon, it just work better and has some nice confusion apply, with more stacks and better duration!

But the scepter skill 1 still hit for very low amount of dmg and still only apply torment for a very very short duration!… It should be better!

And scepter skill 2 still needs some work…

With that argument, that all weapons that apply some kind of condition should have no sustained, then we sure need to nerf some weapons in this game…

Did I said staff was pure condition weapon? No. But if you want to go into details, staff is a defense/condition weapon. Do you know any 2 hands core defensive weapon which has low cool downs? Only one currently is druid staff which is more towards support but arguably needs some tweaks.

It is the same as asking why elementalist or guardian focus can’t kill anyone. Because they weren’t designed for it…

You don’t use the staff for dps, you use it to keep the condition pressure up while defending yourself. You also forget that while the staff is dealing with low damage + condition is also giving you and your allies boons. So there is your weapon dealing condition plus giving you sustain. Which make your last statement wrong.

Wind of chaos attacks bounces, hits with condition and gives boons and the projectile is homing. Which one would would like to give up in order to increase the orb speed?

Staff 5, Chaos Storm, deals damage plus 1 random condition per second plus one random boon for 5 seconds plus daze on five targets and five allies also it is a combo field in a 35 seconds cool down. If that’s not enough then I guess something like the necromancer signet of spite which inflicts the double of conditions on a 60 seconds cool down utility?

Jace al Thor.6745:

azyume.6321:

Did you even played mesmer during the power block and mirror blade period? What you suggest will make mesmer even more broken than that, specially if we take into account the new changes to amulet.

Also, condition mesmer is broken as kitten in WvW so your suggesting changes will never happen; Plus Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

The problem with condi Mesmer is that it only really applies 2 damaging conditions. Both of which happen to punish lack of condi clear and poor condition management. But neither are as strong as Burn so yeah. And if it’s a Chrono condi then it probably doesn’t have any condi clear itself other than torch so it’s weak against condi. If it’s not Chrono and has chaos/insp/x then it’s slow as Christmas just runaway.
So unless you just… Can’t notice 12 stacks of confusion and however many of torment to know when to cleanse… It’s not that hard to win that fight. If they can’t kill you you still win. Also, with the lack of clone death traits condi Mesmer has be actually be active in its attack else why bother attacking. It’s not the same as it was 1 year ago. And again, 1v1 isn’t a supported game mode which is really the only setting this shines.

The PB/GS was fine. Why? Because the traits themselves hadn’t changed in their coefficients. Anet just power creeped on everything. Adjusting the power creep would have fixed that.
Mantra Mesmer was worse, but a change of pace in buil variety, and most used Staff in it. And PB wasn’t even the problem. Confounding Suggestions was and it never got nerfed.

I am not going into specifics of what was fine and what wasn’t back then, just asked if OP played that meta, where if you landed the combo, the target was dead in 3 seconds. With the amount of buffs proposed with such increase of damage (25%) in a relative low CD plus the changes of the amulets and abilities to tank, will be feeding the power creep even more. We need more balance and not power creep where we one shot each other or kill in less than 5 seconds.

The game modes aren’t separated, whatever Anet does in PvE and PvP makes the mesmer roamer even more broken in WvW due to ascended gear, perplexity runes and food, while it is a joke in PvP. Condition mesmer will never see better days in PvP as long as anet don’t split the skills between the modes.

Did you even played mesmer during the power block and mirror blade period? What you suggest will make mesmer even more broken than that, specially if we take into account the new changes to amulet.

Also, condition mesmer is broken as kitten in WvW so your suggesting changes will never happen; Plus Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

If the player is good enough with thief, can turn the odds into the team’s favor in the match.

Also, I’ve watched Helseth and Nos duo stream today where they got matched against 2 good thieves on the other team. The thieves completely shut the 2 down and carried the match

Blue Hare.8612:

What are you talking about? It takes skill . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

Rofl! Gotta love Bik.

I do agree with the thread tho. Anet has been pushing conditions to be more and more equal to power damage. Never seem the term of condi burst be used until june-16 patch and now with those new amulets I am quite intrigued to what will become not only for conditions but in overall but, somehow, doesn’t look too much good.

Ensign.2189:

What’s a balance change that’s absolutely critical for one game mode that would be a disaster for another, with no alternatives that would accomplish something similar?

There is no denying the amount of CC the elites can dish out was designed with raid in mind and its spam has been completely toxic to PvP. How fun is to get locked in a CC chain and die in 4 seconds because no amount of stun break will be enough to free yourself from all the spam?

Instead of making a defiant bar according with the CC the professions already had in mind they went with a whole new thing. Now if they reduce the amount of skills that can control, will ruin raid unless they rework on the bar. Time will tell which path Anet will take.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Of burning an entire trait line that barely helps DPS. For support guards, FoW competes with the shout trait sooooooooooooo…..

My point, guardian has the option even if need to give up on dps. You aren’t forced into take Honor, Virtues and Valor to be able to have the required sustain to not be nuked out in 2 seconds.

Ele doesn’t have that option. You need those 3 trait lines to be able to survive, there is no other option.

People forget that to have such sustain ele/tempest needs to be traited fully into defense (aka bunker) which takes away any kind of diversity. Normalizing the HP to 13-15k will give more margin to use different trait lines other than earth/water/arcana and earth/water/tempest.

Pepsi.8907:

Guardian got the exact same HP as thief and ele, do they need a higher one?

Force of Will
Guardians have the option.

Mefiq.7039:

Thief dmg boost toughtless hmm cuz thief deals less dmg with backstab than Rev on autoattack… I bet thief is considered worst class cuz his dmg is so high… Anyone who even played thief 10 min will know that Risk for going melee to deal dmg is not worth cuz NOT ONLY DMG IS LOW AS kitten but any aoe/stun/passive trait will kill you.

Exactly the same argument you are using for thieves not being viable is for eles as well not being viable as fresh air. If thief with all the mobility can’t make it through how exactly you expect eles to pull it off?

Also, nerfing the only thing eles have due to the low health pool, the sustain, won’t make any builds viable. That’s just lazy

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

But Shatterstone will explode 1 second earlier so you can put 1 vulnerability on opponents 1 second faster! SCEPTER SO OP!

So now only have to go to fire, stack might, overload, swap for water and camp it for full five seconds spamming shatterstone for that sweet vulnerability then swap to air, lighting flash and lighting strike then air overload to try to dps?

Easy peasy, we got this boys! Scpeter Hype!

Funny how people try to defend this broken balance anet have by pointing fingers about which profession was top and which wasn’t.

You know, in a good balance, there would be plenty room for at least 7 of the 9 profession to be on the meta instead of only 3. So instead of saying: “haha tough luck” how about asking to Anet actually balance the game and professions according instead of making band aids with runes/sigils and go to the root of the problems bringing in more variability and diversity?

It seems Anet don’t understand their professions at all.

Elementalist/Tempest does not need more condition clear, what they need is a decent damage to justify the low health pool or the latter to be buffed so it won’t keep constantly dying in less than 5 seconds after the DS is broken due to conditions ticking for 2k each.

Scrap Diamond Skin, condition cleanse has absolutely nothing to do with earth traitline. Make something else, idk anything is better than that even a trait only for conjure earth shield.

Also, I’d change Soothing Power to make it similar to Force of Will if there won’t be any changes to the base health.

^before the change to matchmaking maybe, but still was bad before. I’ve had better match ups at ruby, diamond is a hit or miss, bunker fest or people trying out warrior and thief for the achievement

So how many matches did you had with score of 500 – 200 or less specially after Monday?

I’d advise you to stay at ruby and spare yourself of the joke that is diamond specially with this new kitten matchmaking. Haven’t seen poor rotations, profession understanding, map awareness like this in emerald yet they are so abundant in diamond.

GG anet

Dsybok.1405:

Logged into WvW yesterday and I had 16 unused bonus chests. I wonder how many people will come back to WvW if it takes another six months to fix it? Its completely dead IMHO, no one plays anymore, and that makes me sad. This update does nothing to change that but string people along.

32 bonus chests with main account, 78 bonus chests with another.

RIP WvW! If anet don’t make a change now, they might as well just forget it and pull the plug. There is no reason, no motivation to go to WvW anymore.

Not sure if the UI is showing the icons wrong but the queue time has been of 5 or 6
minutes, which could also cause those odd match ups or if the code is simply broken.

Match ups are all kittened up. Sapphire among diamonds, legendary among amber. Mix of sapphire, ruby, diamond, legendary.

Or people finally started to quit or the code is broken.

So the only viable build for the elementalist and tempest is a full defensive/support one and you guys still want to nerf it? How about buff the other ones so they can actually have something to choose besides earth/water/arcana and earth/water/tempest?

The profession have lots of heal? Yes. Also have lots of protection? Yes. But also don’t forget about the lowest HP pool,11k HP, and the lack of evades, blocks, immunity that other profession have.

So you ask to nerf the healing and protection. Now I’ll ask what you propose to compensate. What do you want a profession with the lowest HP pool, no way to avoid damage besides mitigation via protection, with a poor damage and that has to fully trait into defense to be able to survive to do? I guess the answer would be turn into a real condition bunker, because there will be nothing else.

How about buff eles so they can go into offensive without melting in 3 seconds? How about buff the damage so it can be a trade off from the high risk build? Right now can’t even use staff with fire and air traitlines which make it subpar.

Give more viable builds for eles and tempest and you won’t see a bunker support everywhere. There are players who likes damaging builds but can’t do that with the profession because isn’t viable.

Silverthorn.8576:

So it is normal that a non skillplay passive rules the meta? /SeemsGood

If that’s the case why cherry picking the DS alone? Every profession have a passives. Then I’d advise to join the crowd who asks to remove all passive skills/traits from the game.

The point was someone made that can’t break the threshold with axe auto attack, hence why I cite it. I just added that dagger can do it as well if someone is having trouble with axe.

However that’s the part where you have to show skills. If people go fighting a tempest thinking will auto attack or open with a condi bomb, while the tempest is a DS bunker, that’s wrong. You have to work out, make the tempest react to you instead of you to them. If they double dodge the Ghastly Claws, even with vigor, some will still hit and that’s the skill which gives life force, same for dagger auto attack. If close enough to not waste time, can use the little life force have to start to break the DS with the reaper shroud and inflict poison on the second chain of attack.

Is it easy? no. But also isn’t impossible. Find out the tempest rotations, maximize your rotations and use fear and daze at the right time to interrupt the heal.

In anyway, the game isn’t balanced in 1v1 fights but 5v5. Tempest gives support in group fights but have obvious weakness also good for 1v1; reaper shines in group fights but not so good in duels. If take that into account, one can claim DS is balanced since is useless in team fights and also doesn’t do squat against viper rev.

Whatever rework people ask for DS will just nerf elementalist. Tempest, however, can survive without DS if played carefully and condi necros/reaper will chew them down. As I said, would rather have a rework on the profession, the trait will touch the base of the ele, bringing even more nerfs which will make they go back to cantrips and no more support for the team. With tempest and warrior out of the play then we will see the reign of conditions ruling with viper rev and reaper perhaps even bringing back condi engi.

People will say: bring your own condi cleanse. Then we take into consideration the amount of CC that the elites professions can spam so we can decide if want to die from conditions or die from a cc chain since will have only 1 or 0 stun breakers.

Then the necro/reaper have a bad timing to be unable to hit Ghastly Claws and break the threshold. Heck even with dagger you can do that.

If you want to remove/rework/nerf DS, then it needs a more throughout fix going as deep as modifying the elementalist base. As I’ve said in another topic, DS only is effective because of the low HP pool and the amount of heal and protection to compensate it.

In truth DS is strong in a 1v1 fight but is completely worthless in a group fight. If tempest is alone bunkering down while the rest of the team is engaging somewhere else, they are doing it wrong putting the team at disadvantage. The necros/reapers should take advantage of that to turn the odds into the group fight. If you go to 1v1 a bunker DS tempest, you are also doing it wrong.

Once the threshold is broken in a group fight, if there is no other support close like chronobunker or another tempest, that first one will be chewed in a few seconds by the conditions even with the awful amount of heal and condition cleanse.

For me they could remove DS for good but to compensate, I’d like to have a higher HP pool so to not drop in 3 seconds after being corrupted by all conditions in the game as well as be able to choose a different traitline besides full defensive/support ones: earth/water/arcana and earth/water/tempest.

I’ve seen people use some crazy weird stuff to prove an argument, so please, if want balance, how about be more honest and concise about it? Mixing eles and tempests skills and traits, using auto attacks as example… come on, people really expect to break 10% of HP using axe auto attack when you can use Ghastly Claws which if all hit will break the threshold?

Stronghold at the current state is not good. It is a farm fest of premades made of bunkers.

When you guys get matched against 2 tempest, 1 chronobunker with WoP, 1 bunker druid and 1 scrapper/rev or 2 tempest, 2 chronobunker and 1 rev, perhaps will understand why people has been so against the mode since league started. Stronghold can be worse than conquest under such circumstances.

1) Why am among diamonds?
2) Why again another premade against solo queuers?
3) Why considering the odds the system decided that even scoring 150 wasn’t good enough and we lost a pip?

It seems system decided to punish me due to two victories in a row pushing to the 50% w/l creating such a bad lopsided match.

Hopefully the incoming changes will put more weight and reward accordingly when solo queuers faces premades besides, of course, reduce the amount of the disparity between matches.

Now I remember why I decided to stop with pvp for a while. Played 3 games, faced 2 premades, the first one was the reverse of the pic on the attachament, not fun at all either to be the stomper or the stomped, the second was balanced and the third was the punishment. One good match out of 3 so far.

Did the system forgot to take into account the weight of a premade? It is balanced, division wise but the rest, doesn’t seem so. Lost 2 pips if memory doesn’t fail me.

Exhibit C:

chibbi.3706:

Actually I’m pretty sure the stability rework was made for WvW. If I recall correctly they said stability shouldn’t make you able to cross an entire army of people without getting hit by cc which is purely about WvW.

That could have been their main intention but was nowhere near to what WvW needed. It is far from being balanced, it only induced the pirate ship meta which was finally the nail on the coffin to many guilds, making them quit entirely.

The stability change was more balanced to PvP than ever was to WvW. Anet couldn’t make it so to work to WvW because would kitten PvP and e-sports off. It is just a big fail.

Now with the new defiance bar and the new content, raids, which requires you to stun the bosses to not die from AoE and to actually kill them, the elite specs have a kitten ton of CC, thus making PvP stab just as a joke as it is in WvW.

I think Anet forgets they make such changes, they release new content which completely invalidates them and this will keep happening like a vicious circle until the game modes are separated from one another.

How will they fix both bunker meta in pvp and pirate ship meta in wvw? Reduce power creep? PvE is affected. Reduce CC? Raid is ruined. Increase condition to make up for power? PvP and WvW gets kittened. I don’t see the light in the end of the tunnel.