Guild Wars 2

@Vayne

I agree that there is definitely some synergy, such as combo fields. Although, that synergy is basically the design of the developers. In GW1 you could find synergy that was never intended – although sometimes it did create imbalance.

One of the things that makes GW2 less deep or complex is that very rarely do you need to look beyond your weapon skills and a heal or two to complete 80% of the encounters in this game. So, while there may be more depth that exists than we know, the game was designed so casual friendly that you never really need it to win.

Basically, there is very little need of cooperative team play in GW2, especially compared to GW1.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

ATMAvatar.5749:

A trinity system doesn’t make for much more exciting combat. It just creates a privileged minority out of tanks and healers. So now, instead of a dungeon group just falling apart because of rampant stupidity and failure, it can also fall apart because of primadonnas rage-quitting when you don’t bend to their will.

Yes, a balanced trinity system does all that crap you mentioned, which is why having friends and a good guild to play with made the experience much more enjoyable.

What you are wrong about is that having a balanced trinity does actually make combat more interesting, complex, strategic and rewarding. We can go on about this for hours, but it is pretty much a fact that cooperative play and meaningful encounters were much better in GW1 due to a balanced trinity than in GW2.

I still say Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity. WoW has a trinity.

The reason Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity is because there’s no aggro mechanic. There’s no taunt mechanic. Sure Guild Wars 1 players called certain people tanks, but tanks weren’t strictly necessary, at least in PVe.

I never used a tank in PVe. Not once. That means that in Guild Wars 1, the trinity didn’t exist. Not as it does in other games.

Based on your definition I agree 100%. I also never did the whole tank thing in GW1.

My opinion of the trinity in GW1 would look more like a balance between damage, healing/prot and utility. Or, frontline, midline and backline.

Have you played many other MMOs. If you did, you’d know why I hate the trinity. It’s very constricting. Not just on the player’s side, but on the development side as well.

I played Rift for a while and I have to tell you, I learned to hate the trinity as it exists in most MMOs.

Which doesn’t mean Guild Wars 2’s combat couldn’t be improved. But I think there is a lot to the combat that only really comes into play in a couple of hard encounters.

Yeah, here is the rub, I haven’t played any other MMO’s. I have tried them and quit after a week or two.

Guild Wars 1 was it for me, so my views on the genre are a bit warped. I played a few FPS games I liked and I am a big fan of the Elder Scroll games.

I really like the action oriented style of GW2, I just think the synergy in teams from GW1 is missing.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne, you can argue all you want, but you would be wrong. This isn’t up for interpretation. You are just blinded by your fanboy-ism to how bad this story really is and that most books, including LOTR, have one hero.

Actually, I’ve studied this sort of thing for a long time. Certainly you saying I’m wrong doesn’t convince me that I’m wrong.

You see there are different ways to write books. There are characters that are heroes in books and they have sidekicks, as with Frodo and Sam. But in many treatises on Lord of the Rings, Aragorn is pointed to as the hero, rather than Frodo. He’s the one to front the path of the dead he’s the one to help win the battle of Gondor, he’s the one who the last book is named for “The Return of the King”.

I’m sure you’re very educated in your chosen field, but now you’re encroaching on my chosen field of study. You can say I’m wrong from today till doomsday but it doesn’t change the fact that there are many works of literature with multiple heroes, including most romances. I chose Lord of the Rings as an example because I figured most people would be familiar with it.

Who was the hero of the Illiad? Is that a better question for you? Who’s the hero of X-men for that matter?

Heroic fiction is one type of fantasy fiction. There’s also high fantasy of which heroic fiction is a subset. In a typical work of fiction, there is usually one protagonist but this isn’t always the case, or even often the case.

Try reading Lucifer’s Hammer and tell me there who the hero is.

Honestly arguing in the absence of fact is silly. But claiming I’m wrong because you say so isn’t much of an argument.

Lol, actually I was thinking of X-men as I wrote this as a clear example where everyone is a “hero”. But, you saying that you have a background in this sort of thing still doesn’t really further your argument any more than I did when I said that there is not up to interpretation. Oh, and I know it’s not that impressive, but I do have a minor in literature, so you know…

I suppose there is a strong secondary plot to LoTR where Aaragorn is rightfully returned to his seat as king, so I do realize my statements are a bit rash. That is the beauty of the interwebz though.

Anyways, we are still talking about 2-3 heroes, not lots and lots.

I realize we are not going to get along as I am a GW1 fanboy and you are a GW2 fanboy, but I promise to keep our conversations more civil and less sarcastic moving forward if you can keep it civil as well?

Actually I loved Guild Wars 1. I just love Guild Wars 2 also.

As for my area of expertise, yeah, it sorta does mean something. If you study a subject and you’re not talking off the top of your head, you have a head start of someone who hasn’t studied the subject.

There are many pieces written about how Aragorn is actually the true hero of Lord of the Rings. A casual read may not show it. But those treatises exist (and if you study that stuff, you’d know about it).

Basically, you have the habit of saying “you’re wrong” to me. But in fact, I’m not wrong. I’m either speaking from opinion, which has no right or wrong, or I’m speaking from experience and study which does give me some small amount of information that you might not be privy too.

I’m happy to call a truce as well. I don’t have anything against you. I just have a different opinion.

Ok then, truce

I do actually enjoy GW2, but I really did expect more from ANet and I feel it has lost some things that GW1 did really well.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

ATMAvatar.5749:

A trinity system doesn’t make for much more exciting combat. It just creates a privileged minority out of tanks and healers. So now, instead of a dungeon group just falling apart because of rampant stupidity and failure, it can also fall apart because of primadonnas rage-quitting when you don’t bend to their will.

Yes, a balanced trinity system does all that crap you mentioned, which is why having friends and a good guild to play with made the experience much more enjoyable.

What you are wrong about is that having a balanced trinity does actually make combat more interesting, complex, strategic and rewarding. We can go on about this for hours, but it is pretty much a fact that cooperative play and meaningful encounters were much better in GW1 due to a balanced trinity than in GW2.

I still say Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity. WoW has a trinity.

The reason Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity is because there’s no aggro mechanic. There’s no taunt mechanic. Sure Guild Wars 1 players called certain people tanks, but tanks weren’t strictly necessary, at least in PVe.

I never used a tank in PVe. Not once. That means that in Guild Wars 1, the trinity didn’t exist. Not as it does in other games.

Based on your definition I agree 100%. I also never did the whole tank thing in GW1.

My opinion of the trinity in GW1 would look more like a balance between damage, healing/prot and utility. Or, frontline, midline and backline.

ATMAvatar.5749:

A trinity system doesn’t make for much more exciting combat. It just creates a privileged minority out of tanks and healers. So now, instead of a dungeon group just falling apart because of rampant stupidity and failure, it can also fall apart because of primadonnas rage-quitting when you don’t bend to their will.

Yes, a balanced trinity system does all that crap you mentioned, which is why having friends and a good guild to play with made the experience much more enjoyable.

What you are wrong about is that having a balanced trinity does actually make combat more interesting, complex, strategic and rewarding. We can go on about this for hours, but it is pretty much a fact that cooperative play and meaningful encounters were much better in GW1 due to a balanced trinity than in GW2.

The game does have all the parts of the trinity; it’s just that no one character can do one thing really well except DPS. That, and the utility and healing aspects have basically been nerfed to kitten. So, we traded having to spam LF MONK or taking a henchman with having complex combat and interesting/exciting team play.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne, you can argue all you want, but you would be wrong. This isn’t up for interpretation. You are just blinded by your fanboy-ism to how bad this story really is and that most books, including LOTR, have one hero.

Actually, I’ve studied this sort of thing for a long time. Certainly you saying I’m wrong doesn’t convince me that I’m wrong.

You see there are different ways to write books. There are characters that are heroes in books and they have sidekicks, as with Frodo and Sam. But in many treatises on Lord of the Rings, Aragorn is pointed to as the hero, rather than Frodo. He’s the one to front the path of the dead he’s the one to help win the battle of Gondor, he’s the one who the last book is named for “The Return of the King”.

I’m sure you’re very educated in your chosen field, but now you’re encroaching on my chosen field of study. You can say I’m wrong from today till doomsday but it doesn’t change the fact that there are many works of literature with multiple heroes, including most romances. I chose Lord of the Rings as an example because I figured most people would be familiar with it.

Who was the hero of the Illiad? Is that a better question for you? Who’s the hero of X-men for that matter?

Heroic fiction is one type of fantasy fiction. There’s also high fantasy of which heroic fiction is a subset. In a typical work of fiction, there is usually one protagonist but this isn’t always the case, or even often the case.

Try reading Lucifer’s Hammer and tell me there who the hero is.

Honestly arguing in the absence of fact is silly. But claiming I’m wrong because you say so isn’t much of an argument.

Lol, actually I was thinking of X-men as I wrote this as a clear example where everyone is a “hero”. But, you saying that you have a background in this sort of thing still doesn’t really further your argument any more than I did when I said that there is not up to interpretation. Oh, and I know it’s not that impressive, but I do have a minor in literature, so you know…

I suppose there is a strong secondary plot to LoTR where Aaragorn is rightfully returned to his seat as king, so I do realize my statements are a bit rash. That is the beauty of the interwebz though.

Anyways, we are still talking about 2-3 heroes, not lots and lots.

I realize we are not going to get along as I am a GW1 fanboy and you are a GW2 fanboy, but I promise to keep our conversations more civil and less sarcastic moving forward if you can keep it civil as well?

Vayne.8563:

Flamenco.3894:

Yes, the manifesto worked indeed.

Do you really think most people who bought the game bought it on the strength of the manifesto? Really? lmao

You’re a bit fixated on that manifesto. Strangely I saw the manifesto, bought the game at least partly on it and I’m not disappointed at all.

To each his own.

Considering how many people bought the game and subsequently left, I think it is safe to say that the ideas behind the manifesto permeated the rumors about this game and once people realized it was another WoW clone, they left with the same distrust in MMO hype as all the others.

The only thing that gave this chance a shot at actually living up to the hype is that GW1 did break the mold. GW2, however, did not.

killcannon.2576:

The three million number sold to make this or swtor the fastest selling mmo of all time title is a little misleading. If you google a bit you can find info on various WoW add ons that sold 3 million in a single day. Given, the expansions were not the original, but if you are just throwing numbers and making erroneous statements it would pay to do some research. The sales for GW2 are never the less impressive and I hope it continues to do well.

Good stuff. Cheers!

Vayne.8563:

Actually Guild Wars 2 is the fastest selling MMO of all time. That it to say it sold 3 million copies faster than any MMO in history including WoW. And that IS a matter of record.

Then why is it when I google “fastest selling MMO” I keep getting SWTOR returns? You would think if what you said was true it would be bigger news.

Yes they sold 3 million fast, but they are not the fastest selling MMO of all time, that honor goes to SWTOR according to every other source I can find.

If health pools and damage were closer, A team of scrubs playing GW1 chars would destroy iQ playing GW2 characters.

If health pools and damage are as they are now, iQ could be playing GW1 chars an get roflstomped by a team of GW2 scrubs.

Vayne, you can argue all you want, but you would be wrong. This isn’t up for interpretation. You are just blinded by your fanboy-ism to how bad this story really is and that most books, including LOTR, have one hero.

I read the books multiple times and watches the movies multiple times. I agree that they are all great characters an integral to the story, but Frodo is the hero. Sam would also be a close second. Aaragorn is close as well, but even less so.

The fact that we are talking about a handful of characters still suggests that the hero(s) of a story are best centered around a small group of people at most and a story with lots of heroes just wouldn’t be all that amazing.

But, looking at the definition of a hero, Aaragorn, Sam, etc are all heroes in the sense that they are great characters, but they aren’t the hero. In the literary definition, the hero is Frodo. He is the center of the book and the only one able to carry out the ending. In this sense all of the other characters are secondary to Frodo.

And yet, the hero of the story is Frodo. The others are great characters that help him, but only Frodo can bear the weight of the ring. Without him all else fails. Without others, he still perseveres. In fact, the only other character that might be integral to destroying the ring is gollum, who we would hardly call a hero.

I’m sorry, I know what you are saying, but Frodo is the only true hero of the story. The others are notable allies. In GW2 you are barely even a notable ally and you certainly aren’t the hero.

Vayne.8563:

Games like Skyrim turn me off, because you can be the leader of every single order on a single character. Sure, I’m the head of the mage’s guild, the thieve’s guild, the assassin’s guild and the companions. Much harder to believe than that I’m part of something else and spear-heading a charge against an elder dragon.

The whole you’re the chosen one thing is so trite and cliche. You’re the dragon born. Yeah, okay. I can buy into that.

Why can’t you be a hero and still be surrounded by other heroes? Why is it that being heroic means you’re the only one?

It seems a very narrow way to define heroism to me.

I mean Trahearne healed Orr which I wasn’t qualified to do. He wasn’t there when we assaulted Arah though.

Because if everyone is a hero, then nobody is a hero.

Also, the idea of the singular hero has been an age old part of fiction that just works.

Write a book where everyone is the hero and see how well it turns out.

EDIT:

Here is the definition of the word hero from Merriam Webster for our editor:

1a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b : an illustrious warrior
c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
d : one who shows great courage

2a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work
b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement

As you can see, the majority of the definitions, especially as they relate to literary work, refer to a singular hero. Not plural.

The post above sums up everything I feel about GW1 and GW2.

Vayne.8563:

Disneyworld is a themepark, Six Flags is a theme park. There’s a world of difference between them.

Just the idea that I can’t stand most MMOs, including WoW, but I enjoy Guild Wars 2 should prove they’re not the same. If you can’t see the difference, shrugs. No big deal.

As for English, I spent many years editing for a living. Has nothing to do with casual forum posting.

Again, have a nice life.

So you understand that what you wrote was ambiguous enough to merit that it could have been interpreted wrong?

Furthermore, I am happy to see that because you like GW2 and don’t like WoW we can all place them in separate and district categories and proclaim GW2 to be the most unique MMO ever made and not any way shape or form like WoW.

Seriously, were you an editor for your middle school newspaper because your logic continues to astound me. I never knew that your opinion was the only one that mattered and was the end to all arguments. Simply amazing!

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Guild Wars II has been out for six months. The devs are still learning how to optimize the gameplay experience for most people.

Some games have been out for many years, and have had a lot of changes that made the gameplay experience worse, but over time those changes were reverted, even improved in some cases. GWII is no different. The devs will learn more and more about what works for the game and what doesn’t work for the game. You just need to give them time.

Why does anyone NEED to give the devs time to polish an unpolished game?

What happened to the YEARS of experience they had with GW1, which did break the mold, that they threw out the window?

I honestly don’t see this game surviving past the next couple of good MMO releases.

Well that’s a relief to me, because I’ve yet to see a good MMO release. Have fun waiting for one.

I saw one, it was called Guild Wars 1. But, I guess that wasn’t a real MMO. You’re right though, I haven’t seen a good MMO release, including this one. I guess GW2 will end up like all the rest.

You weren’t seriously hoping that GW2 is gonna survive by some miracle where other MMO’s couldn’t right?

Guild Wars 2 will not only survive, it will thrive. Maybe without you and players like you, but there are still plenty of players like me and the people I play with. Lots and lots of people don’t like this game. Lots and lots of people do like this game. You can say the same about WoW, which is undoubtedly successful. Lots of people hate Wow, but it’s irrelevant, because lots of people play it. The same is true of Guild Wars 2.

And it doesn’t need ten million people to be successful. So this game won’t go the way most games have gone. Rift is still around and doing fine.

The problems that many games have had on launch, for the most part, aren’t part of Guild Wars 2’s problems. Two years from now, you’ll still be saying this game won’t survive, but it will probably have a higher population than it does now.

Wow, your points are brilliant and moving. With such a strong argument, who can deny that you are correct? The one that got me the most was when you said you and your friends will keep playing it for a long time. That was when I knew I lost the argument.

One a less sarcastic note, you’ve never been a good history student eh?

Sarcasm doesn’t win arguments. It shows that the perpetrator of sarcasm has run out of legitimate points.

You say you guess Guild Wars 2 will end up like all the rest. It’s a bad guess. You have nothing to base it on but your theory that other people want what you want. And some do. And some don’t. So the question becomes, are there enough players like me to support this game and make it successful. I suspect that there is.

I don’t really have to be eloquent. Time will tell. In two years time, come around and see if Guild Wars 2 is dead.

There is no way to win this argument until we see what happens. Although, history and logic is on my side.

I was just lolling at your logic that because you and your friends like the game, it won’t die. You do know that there are a lot of dead games people are still playing right?

You have no logic on your side, and no history either. That’s because just about every single game that’s come down the pike as an MMO after WoW has been more or less a WoW clone. Guild Wars 2 isn’t. So history is irrelevant.

Um WoW = themepark MMO.

GW2 = themepark MMO.

The reason people call things WoW clones are because they compare to WoW as a themepark MMO game. GW2 sits in that same category and as such can be called a WoW clone.

I’m glad you found one example out of hundreds that stuck around and used that for your argument. Clearly, one example out of hundreds should be considered the rule and not the exception. You aren’t by chance high right now are you? That could account for your logic sensors not working correctly.

Vayne.8563:

Other people understood what I said. Strange, huh?

But anyway I’m done with you. Have a nice life. In two years, I’m pretty sure I’ll still be playing this game and I’m pretty sure it’ll still be successful. I hope you find a game you like too.

And yes, by the rules of the English language it was ambiguous and up to interpretation. I’m sorry you didn’t pay attention in English class when you had the chance.

Also, I hope I find a game I like too. The only one that ever really made me happy was GW1, but sadly that game is dead now.

And, yes, I hope that this game is around in two years for you. Unfortunately for you, history isn’t on your side.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Hawkian.6580:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

I quit months ago do to DR’s, but I still lurk on the forums occasionally.. Looks like I haven’t missed a kitten thing. Same old DR’s, crap drops and broken events..

I really miss launch, the game was fun then.

The game is more fun for me now than it was at launch. Not having basic things working like the marketplace sucked quite badly. Most personal stories were bugged and just about all of Orr. There’s been a lot of improvement since then.

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once. Maybe it’s about playing a game instead of farming a game. Some of us enjoy this game because we play it.

If the farmers are the only ones complaining, Anet is doing something right.

Wow, never experienced DR? I guess you never tried to do two dungeon runs in one day to work towards a set of exotic armor?

IF I were the kind of guy who needed to get everything as fast as I could, I would run the same dungeon over and over. But see, some of us have patience and don’t really care if I get it today or tomorrow.

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day, just for the hell of it. And I didn’t see diminishing returns because I find running the same dungeon path over and over again boring.

Even a couple of days in a row, I probably wouldn’t run the same path. Some people need everything yesterday. I’m not one of those people.

And since I KNOW about that very specific case of diminshing returns, I’d reason out it’s even more efficient for me timewise to not run the same path twice in the same day.

So yeah, I never experienced that.

Man you’re making a lot of assumptions and points when I was just pointing out that you have experienced DR.

You say you have never experienced DR, but you said you have also run the same path multiple times in a dungeon. You are aware that you get less tokens through the DR system if you run the same path more than once in a day?

So, what you said is false. You have experienced DR. Why do you feel the need to lie to people?

He didn’t say that; are you being serious in this post?

Which part didn’t he say? Because, I’ll quote the two parts below that are mutually exclusive, yet he says they happened:

Vayne.8563:

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once.

Vayne.8563:

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day

You can’t run the same path more than once in a day without experiencing DR. End of story. He lied.

Yes, I’ve run THREE EXPLORABLE PATHS, not the same explorable path over and over. In addition to your reprehensibility to insult, we can now savor your inability to read.

Each explorable path of the same dungeon, is still the same dungeon. If I run all three paths of AC, which are all different in the same day, I won’t experience DR. I’d have to run the same explorable path to experience that.

This doesn’t make me a liar. This is simply you drawing a bad conclusion from what I wrote. By calling me a liar, you only make yourself look bad.

Why must you resort to sarcasm and personal attacks. Could it be because you have nothing to back up what you’re saying?

I think your incomprehensibility to write is greater than my ability to read your mind when you said you ran three paths. Had you said the word “different” paths, then it would be much more clear. However, you did not differentiate, which means that it is at the reader’s discretion to choose what you mean since your writing skills are clearly lacking.

Sorry, but you just keep failing on many many levels here.

Also, what exactly is the point you think I am failing to back up. You simply said you never experienced DR, I said then you must not have run a dungeon more than once, and then you went on a tirade.

It is pretty clear that if you run a dungeon more than once, you will experience DR. I mean it is a developer imposed mechanic in the game. Unless, you don’t believe that exists, but then you would just be fooling yourself.

I do apologize that I misread your ambiguous post and that appears to have made you quite irritable.

Oh, and sorry for the double post, but I am specifically talking about the dungeon token DR that I have a problem with. I don’t farm. But, like you, I don’t care for dungeons, so if I do decide to get dungeon exotic, it would be nice if I could accumulate the tokens as quickly as possible so I can get it over with and go back to things I enjoy doing.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

I quit months ago do to DR’s, but I still lurk on the forums occasionally.. Looks like I haven’t missed a kitten thing. Same old DR’s, crap drops and broken events..

I really miss launch, the game was fun then.

The game is more fun for me now than it was at launch. Not having basic things working like the marketplace sucked quite badly. Most personal stories were bugged and just about all of Orr. There’s been a lot of improvement since then.

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once. Maybe it’s about playing a game instead of farming a game. Some of us enjoy this game because we play it.

If the farmers are the only ones complaining, Anet is doing something right.

Wow, never experienced DR? I guess you never tried to do two dungeon runs in one day to work towards a set of exotic armor?

IF I were the kind of guy who needed to get everything as fast as I could, I would run the same dungeon over and over. But see, some of us have patience and don’t really care if I get it today or tomorrow.

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day, just for the hell of it. And I didn’t see diminishing returns because I find running the same dungeon path over and over again boring.

Even a couple of days in a row, I probably wouldn’t run the same path. Some people need everything yesterday. I’m not one of those people.

And since I KNOW about that very specific case of diminshing returns, I’d reason out it’s even more efficient for me timewise to not run the same path twice in the same day.

So yeah, I never experienced that.

Man you’re making a lot of assumptions and points when I was just pointing out that you have experienced DR.

You say you have never experienced DR, but you said you have also run the same path multiple times in a dungeon. You are aware that you get less tokens through the DR system if you run the same path more than once in a day?

So, what you said is false. You have experienced DR. Why do you feel the need to lie to people?

No, I never ran the same path, is what I said, because it would bore me. Not on the same day. I’ve run three different paths in the same day.

Aside from that, when most people complain/talk about DR, it’s not dungeon tokens they’re referring too, because that DR is well known. That is to say, it’s been published.

People who mostly complain about DR are talking about diminishing drops when farming a specific area. Like the people who complain about DR when farming sparks or Orr. The dungeon thing I could care less about. Because I could care less about dungeons. They’re okay. Not my think personally.

So I’ve never run the same path of a dungeon twice in the same day and I’ve never experienced DR in the open world. You should stop calling people liars. It makes you look really bad.

The other point you’d miss is that I live in Australia. The reset server time would allow me to do THE SAME path of a dungeon twice on the same day, let’s say Monday, without experiencing DR. That means once before server reset and once after. In the same way I’ve gotten two daily rewards in the same day by finishing one just before the dailies reset.

Again, that’s a really long series of posts when you could have just answered the question with, I’ve never run a dungeon twice in one day.

Furthermore, I don’t know why people think that running three DIFFERENT paths in a dungeon is running the dungeon more than once?

I thought 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1 NOT 2 or 3…

I guess my math skills just aren’t up to par with all of the geniuses here.

Aeolus.3615:

goldenwing.8473:

ANet has definitely moved the MMO genre forward with some innovative gameplay. There is a lot to like about this game.

(…
)Like I said, I’m curious to see where the game falls next year.

Thats curious couse i didnt see anything innovative besides graphics, what is like the diference between light armor and heavy armor 5% maybey 10%, ? i would not call that innovative.

Yea, it’s innovative at being the same themepark MMO as all the rest, except on a more “casual” level that adds more “progression” and less interesting or challenging content.

Notsure.7028:

TL;DR There is nothing wrong with playing an MMO solo. Its just some folkspreferred method of gameplay.

No, nothing wrong with it. Just some way better games out there for solo players, that’s all.

The advantage of the MMO is much more than just “talking with friends.” But, if you don’t like to interact with other people, I think there are some fantastic options other than MMO’s.

Hjorje.9453:

clay.7849:

Hawkian.6580:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

I quit months ago do to DR’s, but I still lurk on the forums occasionally.. Looks like I haven’t missed a kitten thing. Same old DR’s, crap drops and broken events..

I really miss launch, the game was fun then.

The game is more fun for me now than it was at launch. Not having basic things working like the marketplace sucked quite badly. Most personal stories were bugged and just about all of Orr. There’s been a lot of improvement since then.

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once. Maybe it’s about playing a game instead of farming a game. Some of us enjoy this game because we play it.

If the farmers are the only ones complaining, Anet is doing something right.

Wow, never experienced DR? I guess you never tried to do two dungeon runs in one day to work towards a set of exotic armor?

IF I were the kind of guy who needed to get everything as fast as I could, I would run the same dungeon over and over. But see, some of us have patience and don’t really care if I get it today or tomorrow.

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day, just for the hell of it. And I didn’t see diminishing returns because I find running the same dungeon path over and over again boring.

Even a couple of days in a row, I probably wouldn’t run the same path. Some people need everything yesterday. I’m not one of those people.

And since I KNOW about that very specific case of diminshing returns, I’d reason out it’s even more efficient for me timewise to not run the same path twice in the same day.

So yeah, I never experienced that.

Man you’re making a lot of assumptions and points when I was just pointing out that you have experienced DR.

You say you have never experienced DR, but you said you have also run the same path multiple times in a dungeon. You are aware that you get less tokens through the DR system if you run the same path more than once in a day?

So, what you said is false. You have experienced DR. Why do you feel the need to lie to people?

He didn’t say that; are you being serious in this post?

Which part didn’t he say? Because, I’ll quote the two parts below that are mutually exclusive, yet he says they happened:

Vayne.8563:

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once.

Vayne.8563:

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day

You can’t run the same path more than once in a day without experiencing DR. End of story. He lied.

I am pretty sure he is talking about the 3 explorable paths each dungeon has, instead of running the same path 3 times. So he didn’t lie. I can’t why you did see that if you played the game and know the dungeons have 3 paths in them. I guess he should have said “each” of the three explorable paths.

I dunno, it seems like a lot of moan and groan when he could have simply said he never did a dungeon twice in one day. Seems to be quite the defensive fellow.

Poplolita.2638:

clay.7849:

Poplolita.2638:

clay.7849:

Poplolita.2638:

<.< …
>.>…

clay and shootsfoot, when are you going to marry?

Why didn’t you start off with a grade school rhyme too. What are you 10?

It was a joke.

I get that it was a joke. It just wouldn’t be funny for anyone over the age of 10.

When someone doesn’t get a joke, and then uses age to insult me. It really shows me how low his level of maturity really is.

It wasn’t an insult, it was a joke too.

Anyways, I’m surprised your post didn’t start off with, “Sticks and stones…”

Poplolita.2638:

clay.7849:

Poplolita.2638:

<.< …
>.>…

clay and shootsfoot, when are you going to marry?

Why didn’t you start off with a grade school rhyme too. What are you 10?

It was a joke.

I get that it was a joke. It just wouldn’t be funny for anyone over the age of 10.

Shootsfoot.9276:

Yet at the same time you’re saying it’s going to die because you don’t like the game?

Seriously, man.

Think before you type.

No, no, no. I’m not saying it’s gonna die because its a bad game, I’m saying that history repeats itself and, as such, whether this game is GW2 or any other new MMO on the market, it has a very low chance of success.

SWOTR was the fastest selling MMO of all time, quicker to 2M sales than GW2. Although, GW2 can be debated as quickest because of getting to 3M, SWOTR is still dead. And that means, the same can happen to GW2.

I don’t think it is hard to argue that GW2 was released in a beta state. Look at many of the games that were released in that state. Dead.

Come to think of it, there aren’t really that many “healthy” games still out there.

So, I think it is silly to assume that an MMO is going to be successful and be around for years with a healthy population simply because people like it. Lots of people liked the the same MMO’s that are now dead.

And, here is the worst part. I think many many many people can agree that one of the best parts of GW2 are the DE’s. They are one of the best parts of the game. However, if the population does start to fall, and these DE’s are less populated, what happens then? I think we can logically assume there is a possibility that it deters other people from playing as well.

I honestly don’t think there is anything GW2 that is so revolutionary and groundbreaking that it would keep people to stay for longer than the normal playing time of an MMO – which is around a year. History is what tells us that this is the norm, and anything else would be exceptional. Giving the reason for it being exceptional as, “my friends and I really like to play it” is just a really really bad argument as to why it will stick.

Hawkian.6580:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

I quit months ago do to DR’s, but I still lurk on the forums occasionally.. Looks like I haven’t missed a kitten thing. Same old DR’s, crap drops and broken events..

I really miss launch, the game was fun then.

The game is more fun for me now than it was at launch. Not having basic things working like the marketplace sucked quite badly. Most personal stories were bugged and just about all of Orr. There’s been a lot of improvement since then.

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once. Maybe it’s about playing a game instead of farming a game. Some of us enjoy this game because we play it.

If the farmers are the only ones complaining, Anet is doing something right.

Wow, never experienced DR? I guess you never tried to do two dungeon runs in one day to work towards a set of exotic armor?

IF I were the kind of guy who needed to get everything as fast as I could, I would run the same dungeon over and over. But see, some of us have patience and don’t really care if I get it today or tomorrow.

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day, just for the hell of it. And I didn’t see diminishing returns because I find running the same dungeon path over and over again boring.

Even a couple of days in a row, I probably wouldn’t run the same path. Some people need everything yesterday. I’m not one of those people.

And since I KNOW about that very specific case of diminshing returns, I’d reason out it’s even more efficient for me timewise to not run the same path twice in the same day.

So yeah, I never experienced that.

Man you’re making a lot of assumptions and points when I was just pointing out that you have experienced DR.

You say you have never experienced DR, but you said you have also run the same path multiple times in a dungeon. You are aware that you get less tokens through the DR system if you run the same path more than once in a day?

So, what you said is false. You have experienced DR. Why do you feel the need to lie to people?

He didn’t say that; are you being serious in this post?

Which part didn’t he say? Because, I’ll quote the two parts below that are mutually exclusive, yet he says they happened:

Vayne.8563:

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once.

Vayne.8563:

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day

You can’t run the same path more than once in a day without experiencing DR. End of story. He lied.

rizzo.1079:

It’s an MMO that I can mostly play solo, that makes it the only good MMO in my opinion:)

So you play MMO’s because you like to play solo….

Can I introduce you to some fantastic solo player games that will blow this one out of the water?

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Guild Wars II has been out for six months. The devs are still learning how to optimize the gameplay experience for most people.

Some games have been out for many years, and have had a lot of changes that made the gameplay experience worse, but over time those changes were reverted, even improved in some cases. GWII is no different. The devs will learn more and more about what works for the game and what doesn’t work for the game. You just need to give them time.

Why does anyone NEED to give the devs time to polish an unpolished game?

What happened to the YEARS of experience they had with GW1, which did break the mold, that they threw out the window?

I honestly don’t see this game surviving past the next couple of good MMO releases.

Well that’s a relief to me, because I’ve yet to see a good MMO release. Have fun waiting for one.

I saw one, it was called Guild Wars 1. But, I guess that wasn’t a real MMO. You’re right though, I haven’t seen a good MMO release, including this one. I guess GW2 will end up like all the rest.

You weren’t seriously hoping that GW2 is gonna survive by some miracle where other MMO’s couldn’t right?

Guild Wars 2 will not only survive, it will thrive. Maybe without you and players like you, but there are still plenty of players like me and the people I play with. Lots and lots of people don’t like this game. Lots and lots of people do like this game. You can say the same about WoW, which is undoubtedly successful. Lots of people hate Wow, but it’s irrelevant, because lots of people play it. The same is true of Guild Wars 2.

And it doesn’t need ten million people to be successful. So this game won’t go the way most games have gone. Rift is still around and doing fine.

The problems that many games have had on launch, for the most part, aren’t part of Guild Wars 2’s problems. Two years from now, you’ll still be saying this game won’t survive, but it will probably have a higher population than it does now.

Wow, your points are brilliant and moving. With such a strong argument, who can deny that you are correct? The one that got me the most was when you said you and your friends will keep playing it for a long time. That was when I knew I lost the argument.

One a less sarcastic note, you’ve never been a good history student eh?

Sarcasm doesn’t win arguments. It shows that the perpetrator of sarcasm has run out of legitimate points.

You say you guess Guild Wars 2 will end up like all the rest. It’s a bad guess. You have nothing to base it on but your theory that other people want what you want. And some do. And some don’t. So the question becomes, are there enough players like me to support this game and make it successful. I suspect that there is.

I don’t really have to be eloquent. Time will tell. In two years time, come around and see if Guild Wars 2 is dead.

There is no way to win this argument until we see what happens. Although, history and logic is on my side.

I was just lolling at your logic that because you and your friends like the game, it won’t die. You do know that there are a lot of dead games people are still playing right?

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

I quit months ago do to DR’s, but I still lurk on the forums occasionally.. Looks like I haven’t missed a kitten thing. Same old DR’s, crap drops and broken events..

I really miss launch, the game was fun then.

The game is more fun for me now than it was at launch. Not having basic things working like the marketplace sucked quite badly. Most personal stories were bugged and just about all of Orr. There’s been a lot of improvement since then.

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once. Maybe it’s about playing a game instead of farming a game. Some of us enjoy this game because we play it.

If the farmers are the only ones complaining, Anet is doing something right.

Wow, never experienced DR? I guess you never tried to do two dungeon runs in one day to work towards a set of exotic armor?

IF I were the kind of guy who needed to get everything as fast as I could, I would run the same dungeon over and over. But see, some of us have patience and don’t really care if I get it today or tomorrow.

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day, just for the hell of it. And I didn’t see diminishing returns because I find running the same dungeon path over and over again boring.

Even a couple of days in a row, I probably wouldn’t run the same path. Some people need everything yesterday. I’m not one of those people.

And since I KNOW about that very specific case of diminshing returns, I’d reason out it’s even more efficient for me timewise to not run the same path twice in the same day.

So yeah, I never experienced that.

Man you’re making a lot of assumptions and points when I was just pointing out that you have experienced DR.

You say you have never experienced DR, but you said you have also run the same path multiple times in a dungeon. You are aware that you get less tokens through the DR system if you run the same path more than once in a day?

So, what you said is false. You have experienced DR. Why do you feel the need to lie to people?

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

I quit months ago do to DR’s, but I still lurk on the forums occasionally.. Looks like I haven’t missed a kitten thing. Same old DR’s, crap drops and broken events..

I really miss launch, the game was fun then.

The game is more fun for me now than it was at launch. Not having basic things working like the marketplace sucked quite badly. Most personal stories were bugged and just about all of Orr. There’s been a lot of improvement since then.

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once. Maybe it’s about playing a game instead of farming a game. Some of us enjoy this game because we play it.

If the farmers are the only ones complaining, Anet is doing something right.

Wow, never experienced DR? I guess you never tried to do two dungeon runs in one day to work towards a set of exotic armor?

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Guild Wars II has been out for six months. The devs are still learning how to optimize the gameplay experience for most people.

Some games have been out for many years, and have had a lot of changes that made the gameplay experience worse, but over time those changes were reverted, even improved in some cases. GWII is no different. The devs will learn more and more about what works for the game and what doesn’t work for the game. You just need to give them time.

Why does anyone NEED to give the devs time to polish an unpolished game?

What happened to the YEARS of experience they had with GW1, which did break the mold, that they threw out the window?

I honestly don’t see this game surviving past the next couple of good MMO releases.

Well that’s a relief to me, because I’ve yet to see a good MMO release. Have fun waiting for one.

I saw one, it was called Guild Wars 1. But, I guess that wasn’t a real MMO. You’re right though, I haven’t seen a good MMO release, including this one. I guess GW2 will end up like all the rest.

You weren’t seriously hoping that GW2 is gonna survive by some miracle where other MMO’s couldn’t right?

Guild Wars 2 will not only survive, it will thrive. Maybe without you and players like you, but there are still plenty of players like me and the people I play with. Lots and lots of people don’t like this game. Lots and lots of people do like this game. You can say the same about WoW, which is undoubtedly successful. Lots of people hate Wow, but it’s irrelevant, because lots of people play it. The same is true of Guild Wars 2.

And it doesn’t need ten million people to be successful. So this game won’t go the way most games have gone. Rift is still around and doing fine.

The problems that many games have had on launch, for the most part, aren’t part of Guild Wars 2’s problems. Two years from now, you’ll still be saying this game won’t survive, but it will probably have a higher population than it does now.

Wow, your points are brilliant and moving. With such a strong argument, who can deny that you are correct? The one that got me the most was when you said you and your friends will keep playing it for a long time. That was when I knew I lost the argument.

One a less sarcastic note, you’ve never been a good history student eh?

Poplolita.2638:

<.< …
>.>…

clay and shootsfoot, when are you going to marry?

Why didn’t you start off with a grade school rhyme too. What are you 10?

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Guild Wars II has been out for six months. The devs are still learning how to optimize the gameplay experience for most people.

Some games have been out for many years, and have had a lot of changes that made the gameplay experience worse, but over time those changes were reverted, even improved in some cases. GWII is no different. The devs will learn more and more about what works for the game and what doesn’t work for the game. You just need to give them time.

Why does anyone NEED to give the devs time to polish an unpolished game?

What happened to the YEARS of experience they had with GW1, which did break the mold, that they threw out the window?

I honestly don’t see this game surviving past the next couple of good MMO releases.

Well that’s a relief to me, because I’ve yet to see a good MMO release. Have fun waiting for one.

I saw one, it was called Guild Wars 1. But, I guess that wasn’t a real MMO. You’re right though, I haven’t seen a good MMO release, including this one. I guess GW2 will end up like all the rest.

You weren’t seriously hoping that GW2 is gonna survive by some miracle where other MMO’s couldn’t right?

I’d pay for healthy GW1 PvP before Nightfall. That’s it.

mbh.8301:

Starflame.5301:

Vena.8436:

The man who created GW1 PvP hasn’t been with ANet for years. .

Such a shame though

I was actually surprised that the devs tried to bring up MTG when talking about how they envisioned gw2 pvp working.
Gw1 was MTG in motion.
Gw2 is like mtg where you can pick the sideboard for a few premade decks, except the guy making the decks is a kittycat meow meow purr.

This X 1000. Especially before factions.

Vena.8436:

clay.7849:

Same developers.

Wrong. The man who created GW1 PvP hasn’t been with ANet for years. Only one of the original three founders is left and the team has changed drastically in the interim.

Want to try again?

Wow, I honestly didn’t know that. Thanks for the really douchy “want to try again” part. It would have been totally cool if you left that out seeing that I think we agree on the rest.

That does explain a lot. Do you know where the others went and if they are working on an MMO with PvP?

Edit: nevermind, looking at your previous posts you seem to be an ANet apologist…

disregard this post.

Rivenor Black.8239:

Rodantho.6890:

Looks like people are still missing the point. Guild wars is indeed a very nice game, the world is amazing the exploration by it self is also cool..

But after a month its BORING! I understand that Arena net wans to create a unique experience, so the players feel challenge in any place, either its a lvl 1 or lvl 80 area.

I believe I do see your point, but I don’t think you see some of the folk’s point regarding how they don’t WANT those things you want in a game. So I suppose, this game isn’t for you is pretty accurate. Maybe you didn’t understand exactly what this game was going to be when you started. Heck I don’t but I’m giving it a shot, most games in the beginning weed out certain players and attract others after a while, after folks understand ‘what kind of game it really is.’

That’s the problem, it tries too hard to be a game for everyone and not a game for anyone specific.

There is no weeding, there is just countless updates that keep you hanging on for something that is relevant to what you want from the game.

Just wait…

Geotherma.2395:

Giotto.2607:

Jrunyon.3012:

Giotto.2607:

Jrunyon.3012:

I’m exposed to enough drama in real life, I’d rather not experience it in game.

GG! Drama makes you feel fun!

Nope, I don’t think this is the right game for you if that’s your attitude. It’s not a bad thing to want these features, but this game was not marketed that way and probably won’t change.

I mean, the name of this game is “Guildwars”. It is not making sense that guild cant not fight other guilds at least. we suppose to fight other guild, or people, instead fighting zhaitan!

Guild wars had to do with lore, not with the players doing guild vs guild.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Timeline

That’s just what they tell you now to make up for the fact that GvG is non-existant.

The game Guild Wars was made by Arena Net and the end game of their first game was PvP.

1+1=2

jportell.2197:

I have been wondering about the whole boonhate business… Don’t necros have some lovely methods of dealing with peoples boons? Mesmers to an extent but necro’s get the nastiest boon manipulation in this game… Seriously… Teams need to bring a necro to deal with the bunkers… Nothing more….

How does that beat D/D Ele, which is probably the best bunker in the game?

Braxxus.2904:

Because all damage all the time is mindless and has no depth, it’s over in 3 seconds for all the ADD kiddos out there. If anything burst damage is to blame for most everything that is complained about in PvP (conquest being the other big thing to blame).

Many people prefer a game of chess in their PvP with plays and counterplays, strategy and depth. Others just prefer damage because anything over 2 seconds is longer than their ability to retain cognitive thought and would cause their brain to explode.

GW2 != Chess.

No strategy or depth in needing to hold 2 points to win.

Lol, does the OP play PvP?

Here is the formula to winning: Cap 2 points. Hold Them. Win.

Bunkers hold points.

GW1 was the epitome of great PvP. GW2 is the epitome of bad PvP.

Same developers.

’Nuff said.

Adris.1859:

Drop Conquest, bring back GvG, HA and TA.

Yes. This.

Iruwen.3164:

clay.7849:

Typical themepark MMO. Lots of stuff to do to keep you interested in playing the game. None of them are inherently interesting for very long. Furthermore, the game has a very low degree of difficulty that only really gets harder when simple mechanics like “agony” or adding damage/health to mobs, like in FoTM, are introduced.

Very little in the way of cooperative team play, strategy or skill are required to play 95% of the content in this game.

Try WvW. Might help.

I did. Dropping AoE on zergs and watching bags rain overhead is fun, but not challenging.

WvW pretty much comes down to who has the best coverage and the most people playing. I agree that commanders probably have a much better time with the strategy thing, but that leaves out 99% of the rest of the people.

PvP doesn’t really even have that much team synergy. Its basically cap, hold, win.

Typical themepark MMO. Lots of stuff to do to keep you interested in playing the game. None of them are inherently interesting for very long. Furthermore, the game has a very low degree of difficulty that only really gets harder when simple mechanics like “agony” or adding damage/health to mobs, like in FoTM, are introduced.

Very little in the way of cooperative team play, strategy or skill are required to play 95% of the content in this game.

morrolan.9608:

clay.7849:

However, this change is a good change because there was nothing balanced about being able to get the best loot in the game

Best loot in the game? Rares are 3rd best.

Personally this won’t affect me that much because I don’t have the time to go from event to event with multiple alts but the usage of ectos is increasing so why is it a problem if the supply increases? Its not as though ectos are the rarest item in the high level recipes. Plus the supply should increase to encourage high level crafting more. As it is apart from cooking crafting has become a way to level nothing more.

Plus did anet really not foresee this happening? It would show a remarkable lack of foresight if thats true. There would be no QQ if the original system had been changed to this in the beginning.

Well, considering that there is no place to get guaranteed exotics, I fail to see what place has better loot drops?

But, I agree with the rest.