Guild Wars 2

Moving is their choice with in the constraints of the system from the on set. Artificially forcing players out of the ability to play by creating artificial queues for your personal convenience is possibly the worst idea to address the situation. The ones who don’t move are not forced to do anything. That is not what forced means. They chose to play there. Artificial queues o. The other hand literally force an inability to play compared to the population cap now.

This is one of the worst ideas out there. Forcing queues will cause more players to quit then to transfer and leave their community, the commanders, guilds, and other regulars they are familiar with.

It is extremely selfish to suggest forcing the negative aspect of a queue on other, locking them out of play time or forcing destruction of their community for your own desires.

Fluffball.8307:

Offair.2563:

I cant wait till we get a new map. Will be refreshing after the same ole borderland we have for ages. Lets just wait and see how it plays out? Cause according to all these threads there is no room for roamers – no room for open field fights or room for zerg vs zerg and you havent set a single foot on it to see how the playerbase will play it? Jeeze i can understand why Anet does not reply that much cause really nothing is ok.

Well Anet is batting 0 for new WvW maps. We have cause to be concerned with what they think we want.

Based on the forums, they are batting 1000. You see, if you look at the threads demanding a place to play while waiting in queue times, the players flooded the forums. among the “demands” were, many choke points, destructible bridges to cut off points behind the enemy, limited actual WvW impact…………so on and so forth. It is rather amusing how they gave the community precisely what they demanded, in droves, then folks like you tell them they did it wrong. They gave what the majority demanded. So either you were in the minority, or you didn’t participate in the discussion. In either case, you are being disingenuous to claim that they are batting 0 when they gave the community precisely what they demanded. The problem is that the community both doesn’t have a clue what it wants, and is often dishonest about it.

I mean just looking at your individual post from the EotM beta information, you, yourself have very supportive comments posted about, as well as a discussion before that in which you show support of the idea of many bridges and choke points, as it would favor you as a ranger. Interesting how folks have such short memories around here.

Didn’t appear any different then the areas around Bay, hills, garrison, or the spawn areas in EB.

Seems to me the complaints here so far are based off of very very limited areas, covered in a very very short video. I can make a video 5X as long showing equally vertical or narrow areas with the maps we have now.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

coglin.1867… simply not true. The majority of people who have had bans have done so for reaching the max limit on infraction points.

My point exactly. they did so by violating the rules

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

Most of these points have been given because of people asking Anet – politely, why they are not dealing or even acknowledging fly hackers in the game.

I do not believe that for a second. I have seen how folks “ask” things here. They either do so rudely, violate policy be naming suspects (not proven violators).

Speaking of accusations, do you have evidence to support your claim in this matter?

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

The second biggest cause of infraction points is given to people questioning the moderators and why they were given infraction points. I will get an infraction point for making this post because it is against the rules to discuss the giving of infraction points and forum moderation, or to question the moderators.

Well to start, it is clearly against the rules, and for very good reason. Yet you “claim” it is the 2nd largest cause. You offer no evidence to support that “claim”.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

The third biggest cause of infraction points are people trolling other servers and each other… but the majority of infraction points are for questioning the lack of wvw support and questioning the moderators for deleting posts about our concerns.

Wait, what? Folks got in trouble for trolling? Oh my, well heaven forbid.

Where is your link to the metrics for your claims? You state them matter of factly. Unless you have proof of this, you are very literally making uninformed claims and disingenuously misrepresenting them.

Do not confuse your subjective opinion for that of objective facts my friend. It benefits no one. Not sure why you made this off topic tangent.

DevilishLyx.2340:

DoctorWunderbar.5037:

Is there even a reason the WvW forums even exist right now, other than to be the proverbial trashbin/outlet for people wanting to give feedback? Anet, why u do dis to WubVeWub

From what I’ve been able to tell from past posters, these forum are a ground in which mods can infract delete and ban those who dont see anet’s vision, thereby making the forums a bias area where new players can never find out what is really going on in WvW.

No, they ban people for being rude and insulting, when they do not agree with the vision. There is a difference between someone disagreeing, and someone being toxic about the disagreement.

DoctorWunderbar.5037:

What ever happened to Weekly Reports to Anet on the issues WvW is having?

What happened to the promise Report on Siege Trolling that was due 3 weeks ago?

Did Anet even get the report posted by our dear WvW Forum Specialist?

Soooo, another bait and switch. Is there even a reason the WvW forums even exist right now, other than to be the proverbial trashbin/outlet for people wanting to give feedback? Anet, why u do dis to WubVeWub

Did the forums specialist make a personal agreement with you to do anything specific?

Maybe he took his family to Disneyland.

Maybe some work emergencies occurred

Maybe his kids got the measles.

So on and so forth.

They are regular players volunteering their time. The do not owe you anything, yet they are trying to help. Everyone questions everything they do, and applies a negative undertone to it all, then ask questions of them, with assumed expectations.

YuiRS.8129:

coglin.1867:

Sure. get a private arena and you can do that right now. Anet was way ahead of you.

Private arenas don’t get as much rewards, cost money, can be difficult to access etc.

If you find your own personal arena, difficult to access, then you have bigger issues then this. If you want special rules, and are to cheap to pay for it, then you don’t really want them.

YuiRS.8129:

Roe.3679:

So what stops all Mesmers from voting no thieves, or all engineers to vote no necromancers, or all thieves voting no meditation guardians? Not sure this really works as an idea.

That depends on how the voting is handles. If a random player chooses for the whole team, he may ban a direct counter to his class and attempt to carry the team or ban a meta build to help the whole team. The concept works for MOBAs fairly well.

Good thing this isn’t one of those crappy MOBA’s then.

YuiRS.8129:

Bran.7425:

So really this really isn’t about balance at all it is about you wanting an easy way to avoid aspects of the game you do not like.

Sometimes I will have my favorite classes banned, I’m willing to accept it for the ability of players to forcibly change the meta if it’s broken.

I doubt you will ever have your “favorite” profession banned, because they probably will not institute such a bad idea that creates artificial limits. Cruddy MOBA’s are that way —-———>

Sure. get a private arena and you can do that right now. Anet was way ahead of you.

Osu.6307:

coglin.1867:

pepper.6179:

maybe give all 3 servers equal supply, winning in eotm doesn’t really mean anything anyways. Nobody there is ppt competitive.

It doesn’t mean anything? I means you get supply in WvW.

Does anyone who k-trains in eotm do it to help their side get supply in wvw? Absolutely not. Therefore, why should there be a wvw advantage to the “winner.” I’d just drop the supply bonus completely.

Because when the forums were flooded with demands for a casual WvW off shoot, in which to occupy players who were leveling or waiting for regular WvW queues, one of the main things they demanded, was that it had some effect on actual WvW.

The posters got precisely what they demanded at the time.

I would suggest bomb kit with rifle. It is hard to say. Depends on how you are leveling. Generally when I hit the 70-72 range, I use crating as a quick bump to 80.

Lifestealer.4910:

If you are a turret engi and dying to condi classes then you might as well uninstall the game, legit. Turret engi should completely kitten on condi classes in 9/10 situations.

That seems like a very uninformed statement to me. It is well known that engineers are weak against conditions period.

Kousetsu.1627:

^ Did you even try the build?

No real range -> False, same range as many other ranged weapons.

Weak to condi’s -> False, maybe if you got condi bombed 4 times in a row, you have 28k hp and can use heal turret like 3 times before you die.

Limited Control -> False, turrets have active skills and can be blown up for knockback spam.

Turrets have limited range -> False, they have the same range as a LB Ranger with Eagle Eye.

I don’t care what build they use, engineers are absolutely weak to conditions, your conclusion is what is false in that case. To me, turrets are so easily destroyed when I encourage term them, that I am baffled as to why so many players complain about them. I tried playing a turret build for a while myself, to see the best ways to counter one. Since then I have had little trouble against them on any of the multiple professions I play.

joneirikb.7506:

What is PPT ? Is that the stuff that makes glicko go weird and put us together with servers way out of or under our league ? I think the game mode would be more fun without. :p

That occurs specifically because many threads were made about stale matchups. In those threads, in those threads posters flooded demands to lose restrictions on match ups. They gave what was asked for. Blame those foolish posters for those demands.

We have proheals who posted about several siege trolls who he issued suspensions to in just the last day or two. He is posting how he handled it even today. I don’t know how much more of an update you could have.

pepper.6179:

coglin.1867:

pepper.6179:

maybe give all 3 servers equal supply, winning in eotm doesn’t really mean anything anyways. Nobody there is ppt competitive.

It doesn’t mean anything? I means you get supply in WvW.

like i said, is there actually people being competitive ppt wise there? Hell, not much people care about that supply anyways, I just climb on top to sleep on it.

Good to see your a team player and helping out your server.

pepper.6179:

maybe give all 3 servers equal supply, winning in eotm doesn’t really mean anything anyways. Nobody there is ppt competitive.

It doesn’t mean anything? I means you get supply in WvW.

As far as I understand it, PvP mist and PvE have nothing to do with what server your on. You are only segregated in WvW. I cannot think of a reason why only players on your WvW sever would have lag in the mist pvp lobby, when others do not. Seems odd.

I was just looking through his post, and I do not see any mention of “weekly”. I do not see any specific time frames mentions. It appears he said “periodically”.

Solirus.1754:

I mean come on. It’s not even technically IN the world. I’ve done world completion twice, but WvW is what stops me from going for it anymore. It’s far too troublesome, and I know I’m not the only one that ends up waiting weeks for their servers to rotate, and even then it’s a nightmare.

Why not remove WvW and add in Southsun Cove, Dry Top, and Silverwastes? It just seems silly that some privately instanced pvp battleground is counted, but three legitimate zones that ACTUALLY exist in the world on the map don’t even count just because they were added in later.

Getting WvW map completion isn’t very difficult. You only claim it is because your not familiar with it. yet I didn’t see you asking for WvW players to be relieved of the burden of dealing with the much larger PvE map completion. Why are you demanding changing something for your personal convenience and not another’s? Why would you truly care about map completion unless you needed it for your legendary? I would be okay with the idea as a whole, if they would also remove the cool particle effects and foot falls that come with a legendary. It would be fun to see that, and know who was not legendary enough to earn a legendary. They could be called Unique weapons of above average mediocrity? UWAAM’s sound good?

I ran with everything set to highest performance for a long time. I was on a laptop that was not designed for gaming. I saw nothing but basic character models for everything, but I had little to no problems. It was rather functional. That changed 2 weeks ago when I dropped some money into a new, high end gaming rig. Now I see everyone especially gear and can fully admire the beauty of the game on the best setting for everything. With the Change though, I can say that as far as game play goes, if your willing to drop your settings it works well on older systems or systems more limited capability.

I do know there is a setting that limits particle effects that once I found that and lowered all the effect, it made a world of difference.

Mayama.1854:

coglin.1867:

Makes me laugh that so many think Anet has anything to do with it.

Yeah exactly, weird old cables only affect gw2 and no other games… sure…

I never said it did. No need to attempt to disingenuously suggest I did. I simply stated sometimes folks lay blame in the wrong direction, and shared my story. Although after reading some other technical forums, I have learned that can indeed be the case because of the I formation level being transfered graphics wise.

Personally, I have had issues decline s since release. I haven’t had issues as of late at all. Which begs the question, what is different that is effect a few players and not others?

Kousetsu.1627:

Saiyan.1704:

Spirit/burn Guard – Go head to head with one and die. Are they killable? Yes.

Condi ranger/spirit ranger/power – Go head to head with one and die. Are they killable? Yes.

Condi Engi – Go head to head with one and die. Are they killable? Yes.

Turret Engis – Go head to head with one and die. Are they killable? Yes.

These classes have the following in common.
1. They have the build potential to kill multiple foes at once.
2. They’re all point-assaulters; defending home or roaming to far.
3. They’ve all gotten nerf threads.

Turret engi’s have many weaknesses. The issue is, alot of people attack them 1v1 when that’s their best area. It’s not that they do good aoe damage, because they all do. It’s the fact they’re easy to use, incredibly annoying, and very useful on point due to their CC abilities. Anyone can use it and do well. That’s why people are so annoyed. The players who can’t outsmart them are the ones who think they’re overpowered.

They are limited in the amateur tournament in order to promote build diversity. The tournament is made to promote creative play, preparing your team to potentially be contenders in ESL type tournaments.
I personally think class stacking, including turret engi’s, should be allowed. Because they are common in real world Tournament play.

While everything you stated might be true, the problem is turret engies deal way too much damage while being the tankiest bunker build you could possibly create.

I am not sure you understand what a bunker build means.

It is already bad in that it offers us an elite skill from other professions. It needs it’s own function. I am against anything that perpetuates the idea of copy/paste skills between professions.

Curo.2483:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Sind Bowdragon.8374:

To all those responding. Awesome, thank you. Please remember this isn’t a bashing post, just a cry for help.

What exactly do you want Anet to do?

Force transfer all players on SoS to random servers. Give guilds a chance to transfer first so they can stay together. Cap the amount of transfers to a specific server so they don’t all just pile on to the same server.

You mean force others out of their community and change their experience for your personal convenience? Why don’t you just change servers yourself?

My guild transfered to what was a T3 at the time, a few months ago for a 90 day break. Just came back a month or two ago. Had similar queues there. So if your claiming it only happens on JQ, then you are making claims with a full lack of knowledge or being dishonest. The other odd thing, is that you claim those queues do not exist, yet when I whisper a particular commander on your servers, such as the other night, to meet me on a certain map so we can get our guilds together on a map for some fun, they so no go, it and such and such maps are queued. So we have to move to one they do not have queued. I trust those commanders in this case.

mako.2431:

FinalPatriot.8034:

Folks, I’ve been on the TC server since the day I started GW2 and have really enjoyed WvW up until I came back to the game a few months ago. I’m primarily a roamer with either myself or 1 other person and it just seems these days that WvW is completely full of zergs. Is there no place for the solo roamer anymore on a T1 server?

As a solo roamer, would it be best for me to change to a different server? What are the pros/cons of doing so?

T1 is just about running around avoiding the other zergs and flipping keeps/towers over and over. The lower tiers are not much better, but at least they allow for some roaming.

There is only one thing better then when someone pretends to know what happens daily on 24 or so servers. And that is when they attempt to tell you haw one or three of them operate, and are so glaringly incorrect.

NeXeD.3042:

I don’t lag at all. I used to then found out there was something wrong with the wire going to my house put up a new wire and bam haven’t lagged in a year.

I was in the same boat I had friends/guildies telling me they had no lag. When I was complaining. Turned out I had a corrosion build up there a wire/cable went into a harness/splitter outside. Having the technician catch that and fix it was a game changers. Makes me laugh that so many think Anet has anything to do with it.

Tao.5096:

Lifestealer.4910:

Also alot of “counters” people list are quite laughable even, ranging turrets down with lb as a warrior?.. because those turrets can’t hit you right?.. or the engineer can’t hit you still right?.. and how long will that take?.. the match would be over by the time you destroy all the turrets with your pitiful longbow damage.

If you’re getting killed by Turret Engineer as Hambow Warrior, then it’s a sign, that Hambow needs to be buffed and turrets perma disabled.

That doesn’t mean your argument would hold a drop of water though.

Just because something offers utility, doesn’t justify bad damage, much less suggesting it needs a nerf. That is simply a self conjured fallacy of login in my opinion. You use the term AoE spam as if it were a bad thing. Then offer a mentality that reinforces it by pushing builds toward bombs or grenades even further.

I am not suggesting a cool down change, but there is no justification, in my opinion, for having the last swing have such a wind up, only to be single target. It is very difficult to hit much with such a limited range, that when you remove the cleave aspect, it is essentially a wasted swing and wasted time. In my opinion they are better off removing it so that we get to the cleave hits again faster, if they are not going to offer it a cleave itself.

Johje Holan.4607:

When I started reading your post I thought oh yeah typical of mid to low tier servers nowadays.

But wow, you’re on TC? And have that experience? Man WvW is deader than I thought.

That is unreasonably presumptive and inaccurate. It is 2 AM here in middle America and I see 2+ maps queued in T1

blakdoxa.7520:

I think people are underestimating blobs. The aoe limit is FIVE people afterall. The backline will just get larger and consist of more eles all dropping static and unsteady ground. With one ele you remove at least 2 with static and at least one with UG. Get at least 5 eles in your zerg and thats 15 stacks of stab gone, just like that. Realistically, there will be way more eles than that so GG. Oh kitten! I forgot necros! If you aren’t stacking boons your stab will get ripped and even fear you!

You are making some solidly blind speculation here, well everyone is really. Everything else may change completely once we have professional specializations, and the changes they bring.

Deamhan.9538:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

more logic would be beneficial in discussions

I’d suggest a re-read of the thread. It starting with a logical conclusion. It was the replies that threw the logic to the wind.

As their were 7 more likely possibilities, that were known, easier, and les like to be flagged by the automated system, I believe you are incorrect. It seems to me to be glaringly clear that you jumped to a conclusion, and refuse to budge off of it against the push of reason.

You lost your ‘reason" argument when you claimed your “presumption” as *proof*> You didn’t even offer evidence yet claimed proof. That is what is commonly known as being dishonest.

I am curious how you state In one paragraph the word proof when what you actually have is defined as a speculative accusation. At best a video of this could be called evidence. Three very distinctive terms. Then turn around an aknowledge a known bug that does precisely this function. Wouldn’t it seem more likely they exploited a bug? How do you declare proof with only a story and having presented no evidence?

It should be noted that the tool belt skill is throw wrench. You are referring to the tool kit. Most folks will get that, once they read the OP, but the thread title can be confusing.

I enjoy front line play and larger group play as a whole, Sorel, and I am absolutely for the changes.

Defensive for that guy? Not really. I am against the accusation with no evidence. Simple as that.

I recall having a newer player in my guild. I was pinned up in wvw. We had taken down a door and we’re in a keep with heavy resistance. We had control of the circle. He got pulled down the stairs and trounced. As someone went to spike him, we flipped the keep. Subsequently he got the XP needed to go from 79 to 80. He popped up and we moved down to trounce the other guys. That engineer that pulled him was accusing him of using a hack. I know this because the opposing commander sent me a tell when that guy was accusing him of hacking in their map chat and asking others to join him in reporting the purple ranger sylvari of hacking.

Smug because he didn’t tell an enemy who is stalking him, what that enemy wanted to here? You need less salt in your diet.

You have no evidence it was a hack. He could have map hopped then come back. Lord knows there are some legitimate hackers out there that need to be taken care of. The problem is that they get flooded with false reports from trolls, false reports from folks who do not understand how something could occur. Perhaps he was hacking, but there are legitimate ways he could have not been. It doesn’t help that you chose to publicly suggest the guild has hackers with no evedence. I have seen multiple players report someone as a speed hacker, when they were simply rubber banding due to lag.

it is not a matter of whether or not Anet does anything about. It is a matter of whether or not they are certain so.eone hacked.

Dayra.7405:

coglin.1867:

There is nothing wrong with EOTM. The problem is what the players do with it. You really shouldn’t blame players way of warping something on Anet. That is very short sigjted.

This is shortsighted! It’s of course ANet that implemented a team assignment that leads to permanent ubuf for 2 of the 3 sides.

And of course it is ANet programm that allow that all people of a side can stack together in a very small area.

If these two points would be fixed I am sure there would be more fights, but currently it’s simply pointless to fight.

Because the players asked for it.

You need to go back and read the threads before they created the EotM. They gave the player base of posters everything they demanded. It is a classic case of not being careful about what you wish for. The player base are the o especially who turned it into a leveling train.

There is nothing wrong with EOTM. The problem is what the players do with it. You really shouldn’t blame players way of warping something on Anet. That is very short sigjted.

Then why are you arguing to nerf them if they are not OP?

I don’t get your current argument. Why should we nerf them because you did not get them scouted soon enough and responded slow? If that is your perspective, then I likely wasn’t referring to you if you agree they are not OP.

Rednik.3809:

Make turrets vulnerable to CC and conditions. Bam, problem fixed.

I agree.

the problem here, is that most of the posters here demand a change out of pure selfishness. By that I mean they specifically want them removed or changed, for no other reason then the simple fact that they do not like them. Few if any, offer any reasonable argument to support their demand.

xDudisx.5914:

Coyote.7031:

xDudisx.5914:

Actually you are wrong, every profession has at least 1 source of stability. If it is used or not is another discussion.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

Thief only has dagger storm though. And that’s an elite and a situational one at that, I don’t think most builds use it. And mesmers have a mantra, but I don’t think many mesmers run mantras except for maybe the condition removal one. Some professions have way better access to stability.

My necro for example has her elite, her well, and when in WvW she’s traited for stability in death shroud. So much stability from just one profession.

Like I said I was not discussing if it used or not. Just saying that all classes have 1 or more sources of stab.

What is used and unused may change after the patch that adjust stability, and what ever else changes go in that patch that have not been mentioned.

To clarify, I wasn’t speaking to access to stability in general. I was referring to stability in comparison to that of the warrior or the guardian. The link provided has skills on that wiki page that literally give 1s of stability on a 50s cool down in some cases. If I had to guess, it was more of comment based on my wording, rather then to be helpful to the discussion, I am unclear how that declaration was intended to help the discussion.

DevilishLyx.2340:

Timelord.8190:

Q: Should Omega Golem Be Nerfed?
A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-P8KUgVrg

Now try doing that when you dont have an equally sized zerg to take them on.

Show a video proving he can’t.

I see a great deal of people “claiming” you cannot defend against them, or that they are too strong, yet not a single poster has shown a video themselves losing to golems when there were even numbers of players on both sides of the battle. Until you have a video with yourself in it, it is by definition, nothing more then unfounded claims.

retsuya.4708:

Zadarh.1932:

This NEEDED to happen! Aegis blocks 1 hit and vanishes why should stability make players completely immune to CC? Stability is THE REASON I don’t play interrupt mesmer. “Oh just strip it” yeah, have a build that needs to boon strip before becoming effective, thats a great idea.

I am already testing builds now, when this goes live I will be having a good time!

awesome! with this patch you can just spam interrupts mindlessly and be effective!

You mean versus spamming stability to be effective now? At least with this option, those who are not guardians or warriors can be effective agains them. Every pprofession has CC. Not every profession has stability. They all have CC options though.

I haven’t had any lag at all today and I was on for most of the day. Were there a lot of other players on the maps complaining as well? What server are you on?

xDudisx.5914:

coglin.1867:

xDudisx.5914:

coglin.1867:

xDudisx.5914:

dancingmonkey.4902:

xDudisx.5914:

coglin.1867:

xDudisx.5914:

That is more cc than any other celestial class. More cc than mesmer, thief and ranger. Only thing that has more cc than that is a fearmancer.

How does celestial amulet and CC define anything?

Where did I say that the amulet is defining the CC? I just compared the celestial engi with d/d ele and war which are the other 2 classes that use celestial. Pay more attention when reading.

What makes a PvP build celestial then?

jportell.2197:

Bolded part would be mesmers. Thanks and have a great day!

Why would you wanna bold something only to make an incorrect statement about it?

Anyone that plays this game knows that when people say celestial users or celestial builds it is reffering to d/d ele rifle engi and war.They are the only 3 classes that use celestial in the meta. If you are new to the game I understand your lack of knowledge about it.

Then why are you discussing a non meta build on the engineer? The true meta is Elixir S not Slick Shoes. So, I am not sure if your being intentionally hypocritical for comedic reasons or are contradicting yourself in the manner of cutting off your nose to spite your own face. Anyway, if you assume 1 single build is all that can define a “meta” build for a profession, then you probably shouldn’t come at folks so aggressively.

Point is, like it or not there are absolutely, variation and differences, that are "meta’ themselves with in the basic “meta” builds. If your adhering to only one strict build, and trying to do partial comparisons of only what is strong, while ignoring the weaknesses, then you have already exlude yourself from the real conversation.

The meta engi can use slick shoes. The only one saying false things here is you. “Mediocre condi dmg” “Mediocre direct dmg” hahahahaha.

You are the one ignoring things here. Ignoring all the strong parts and talking like if engi was a weak class.

I have not seen your math on damage comparisons. Where did you say you posted them?

When one of your pillars of complaints is a builds CC, the difference in slick shoes and Elixir S is massive. Particularly given that I can quote all of your previous post as referring to the engineer build as a singular celestial build, in this case. I am not ignoring anything actually. You are simply posting one thing, yet you appear to mean something different. Oddly enough, you approach it as if the community is at fault for not discerning the difference in what you said and what you meant.

Where did you post your math calculations to say the dmg is mediocre? You made false claims and never posted anything to support them. But when anyone post something that is common sense you requests videos, pictures. The cooldowns and durations of the skills are on the wiki. Go learn something about your own class.

Oh so now you speak for the “community”. If the player does not know the meta that is not my problem. Even metabattle has the base build there.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Celestial_Rifle

Well the fact that stat points are invested equally in condition damage, precision, and power, at significantly lower amount then other amulets, is very obvious. It has been broken down by myself, and several others in both engineer threads, this very sub forums.

Speaking for the community? No, not at all. Why do you assume so?

Thank you for posting that link, it absolutely supported my point. The previously posted build that was being discussed had Slick Shoes, not Elixir S, even EG makes it an entirely different play style and discussion as a whole. It is a very different discussion between the three utilities in the aspect of CC, which was one of the complaints. In professions with no weapon swap, there is a very dynamic and different discussion between the build you posted, and the one that was being discussed.

xDudisx.5914:

coglin.1867:

xDudisx.5914:

dancingmonkey.4902:

xDudisx.5914:

coglin.1867:

xDudisx.5914:

That is more cc than any other celestial class. More cc than mesmer, thief and ranger. Only thing that has more cc than that is a fearmancer.

How does celestial amulet and CC define anything?

Where did I say that the amulet is defining the CC? I just compared the celestial engi with d/d ele and war which are the other 2 classes that use celestial. Pay more attention when reading.

What makes a PvP build celestial then?

jportell.2197:

Bolded part would be mesmers. Thanks and have a great day!

Why would you wanna bold something only to make an incorrect statement about it?

Anyone that plays this game knows that when people say celestial users or celestial builds it is reffering to d/d ele rifle engi and war.They are the only 3 classes that use celestial in the meta. If you are new to the game I understand your lack of knowledge about it.

Then why are you discussing a non meta build on the engineer? The true meta is Elixir S not Slick Shoes. So, I am not sure if your being intentionally hypocritical for comedic reasons or are contradicting yourself in the manner of cutting off your nose to spite your own face. Anyway, if you assume 1 single build is all that can define a “meta” build for a profession, then you probably shouldn’t come at folks so aggressively.

Point is, like it or not there are absolutely, variation and differences, that are "meta’ themselves with in the basic “meta” builds. If your adhering to only one strict build, and trying to do partial comparisons of only what is strong, while ignoring the weaknesses, then you have already exlude yourself from the real conversation.

The meta engi can use slick shoes. The only one saying false things here is you. “Mediocre condi dmg” “Mediocre direct dmg” hahahahaha.

You are the one ignoring things here. Ignoring all the strong parts and talking like if engi was a weak class.

I have not seen your math on damage comparisons. Where did you say you posted them?

When one of your pillars of complaints is a builds CC, the difference in slick shoes and Elixir S is massive. Particularly given that I can quote all of your previous post as referring to the engineer build as a singular celestial build, in this case. I am not ignoring anything actually. You are simply posting one thing, yet you appear to mean something different. Oddly enough, you approach it as if the community is at fault for not discerning the difference in what you said and what you meant.

Simon.3794:

You do realise that best at their roles and kill off every single other builds also mean OP.
Cele ele is op as a point holder compare to every point holder out there.
and cele engi is just superior damage pressure then every same role build out there
and thief is just way better in terms of roaming around the map while mesmer is good alternative, it’s single mobility vs group mobility which is diversity inside a single role, but these are better then every other zerker roaming +1 fights builds out there.

Are you suggesting you can beat every skill level of player and every build with either of your 3 beloved celestial builds? To m it seems as you are projecting a skill level difference that doesn’t exist. They do not innately “kill every single other build” as you appear to be suggesting.

The problems are very very different between the 3. Eles reasons from being problematic strike me as more a problem of over stacking boons and healing. Engineers problem strikes me as a lack of cast times and visual cues to allow for proper game play to counter them, and less the actual skills themselves. As to warriors, I feel that the might nerf effected them a bit more directly, but I do not personally feel they are directly OP.

As to thieves though, are you suggesting celestial thieves are a problem? First I really heard of this. If not, it a none cele build has no business in the discussion.

xDudisx.5914:

dancingmonkey.4902:

xDudisx.5914:

coglin.1867:

xDudisx.5914:

That is more cc than any other celestial class. More cc than mesmer, thief and ranger. Only thing that has more cc than that is a fearmancer.

How does celestial amulet and CC define anything?

Where did I say that the amulet is defining the CC? I just compared the celestial engi with d/d ele and war which are the other 2 classes that use celestial. Pay more attention when reading.

What makes a PvP build celestial then?

jportell.2197:

Bolded part would be mesmers. Thanks and have a great day!

Why would you wanna bold something only to make an incorrect statement about it?

Anyone that plays this game knows that when people say celestial users or celestial builds it is reffering to d/d ele rifle engi and war.They are the only 3 classes that use celestial in the meta. If you are new to the game I understand your lack of knowledge about it.

Then why are you discussing a non meta build on the engineer? The true meta is Elixir S not Slick Shoes. So, I am not sure if your being intentionally hypocritical for comedic reasons or are contradicting yourself in the manner of cutting off your nose to spite your own face. Anyway, if you assume 1 single build is all that can define a “meta” build for a profession, then you probably shouldn’t come at folks so aggressively.

Point is, like it or not there are absolutely, variation and differences, that are "meta’ themselves with in the basic “meta” builds. If your adhering to only one strict build, and trying to do partial comparisons of only what is strong, while ignoring the weaknesses, then you have already exlude yourself from the real conversation.