Guild Wars 2

I mean i disagree with the orginal poster, about memsers being too strong.
I dont know why so many people have so much trouble with them.
Good mesmers are tough, but good anything is tough.

People arent refusing to listen. They are disagreeing. My mains not a mesmer, and i dont think mesmers are OP.

I think timewarp is a bit strong, but other than that, mesmers are FINE.

Khyras.8021:

A-net took mesmer dmg and doubled it Jay Wilson style.

the opposite. you posted a video before the shatter nerf went into effect. They dont hit that hard anymore.

You do realize that video was posted b4 the burst nerf to mesmers shatter Khyras. They dont that much damage anymore. And ive seen teldoo 1vs1 top mesmers before on his stream.
Using something thats current would be useful if someones trying to make a point.
Especially people who post shatter vids BEFORE IT WAS NERFED.

Taym.8326:

NaturalPortman.9562:

ensoriki.5789:

Thief traps CD starts immediately upon being planted.
Banners CD starts immediately upon being planted.
Spirits CD starts immediately upon being planted.

Hence you can plant an Ambush trap as a thief, CD will wear off, Opponent steps on it, plant it again and have 2 thieves active at once.

My mistake then, well if this is working as intended then everything else should be like this as well..?

Also Necro marks which are the closest thing that is commonly used operates the exact same way.

Mosharn.8357:

daydream.2938:

ive heard gasmask mention that the CD should start once the trap is sprung. probably would be a good change, and the only chnage necessarry rangers not brokenly op or anything.

agreed. This seems like a reasonable change and wont hurt trap rangers overall.

Actually this would detract from the ability, what happens if you misplace the trap once and no one hits it for the entire game? would you continually be able to throw until one lands on the target as penalizing one failed throw is too much. Meaning the ranger could theoretically have two traps in the air of the same type making traps actually stronger than they are now? This is a bad idea, that can if handled poorly would severely cripple or strengthen the spec.

Instead they could fix empathetic bond to hit rangers where they already hurt, in their personal and pet survivability. This would make traps still remain strong but forcing players to choose between trip traps and condition removal, or taking empathetic bond but sacrificing pets to higher HP ones lowering their overall damage.

You can recast the trap as much as you want. The old one dissapears. once its sprung, it goes on cd.

ive heard gasmask mention that the CD should start once the trap is sprung. probably would be a good change, and the only chnage necessarry rangers not brokenly op or anything.

He means If you get triple capped. And thats somewhat true, to be triple capped you have had to make a major mistake. I dont know if it makes you the worse team per se. Ive been triple capped and come back to win. also ive been triple capped, respawned and managed to triple cap the other team.

Also, i think your talking alot bout league of legends, which is a totally different game.

Win bonus is the way dude.

True, you have to try ppl out to find out if they are good.
But, on average people who are 40+ are compentent.
People who are under 20 tend to need to learn more.

Whats ur rank? Do you happen to have any Qp?
When do you play?
Are you na or eu? Server?

Solori.6025:

daydream.2938:

Mesmers and thiefs have a high initial skill curve.
I find in people rank 1-10 these classes cause the most trouble and often defeat people.

AS you get higher into more competitive play (like joining paid tounries instead of hotjoins) you get more and more players who know how to counter and beat them.
I see engineers/thiefs beat mesmers at a reasonable ratio. also vice versa.
Necros/rangers/eles tend to win the bulk of there fights vs mesmers.
Warriors, not soo good against mesmers for the most part (skill equal).

If you want the ‘eastiest’ class to fight against mesmers, roll a trap ranger. Skill being equal a trap ranger will beat a shatter mesmer 90% of the time, if not more in a 1on1 if thats the concern.

The issue withe mesmer (and thief) isnt that they are OP. its that they punish mistakes hard, good playres make less mistakes and so the class levels out alot vs them.
Nobody is arguing mesmers arent a good class, they certainly are. But, i just dont find them anything special to deal with.
Eles and trap rangers give me more trouble than mesmers any day.

And a question for you day.
How did you get better against mesmers?

The biggest thing is being able to spot the real mesmer quickly. There are several tells.
1. way they move, if they strafe, back up, cast a spell, its the real mesmer. The clones dont hold the mesmer off hand weapon. Also the real mesmer has more buffs on him, vigor is a dead giveaway alot of mesmers have this buff.

2. Shatter combo has a huge tell, the mesmer will raise his hands above his head and super fast clone will run out to you. Once it gets to you he ports to replace himself with it and thats when he does his blurred frenzy/shatter combo. Roll a mesmer and do the shatter combo, once you learn to identify this super fast clone coming at you, u know exactly when hes going to port to switch placs and shatter. Dodging that clone is important, or using a defensive cooldown then so u dont get destroyed.

3. mesmers are super vunerable to conditions. And even more so to aoe conditions. Like i said, if your playing a ranger the immobolize trap will often snag the clones half way to you and prevent the shatter from reaching you. Many mesmer specs run NO condition removal at all. In fact, its nearly IMPOSSIBLE to beat a good trap ranger with a mesmer.

Also, theres some good streamers who duel alot. like teldoo on his engy duels mesmers alot-and good mesmers in top ranked paid teams. He wins his fair share, and thats on an engy, so hes someone to watch for.

Mesmers and thiefs have a high initial skill curve.
I find in people rank 1-10 these classes cause the most trouble and often defeat people.

AS you get higher into more competitive play (like joining paid tounries instead of hotjoins) you get more and more players who know how to counter and beat them.
I see engineers/thiefs beat mesmers at a reasonable ratio. also vice versa.
Necros/rangers/eles tend to win the bulk of there fights vs mesmers.
Warriors, not soo good against mesmers for the most part (skill equal).

If you want the ‘eastiest’ class to fight against mesmers, roll a trap ranger. Skill being equal a trap ranger will beat a shatter mesmer 90% of the time, if not more in a 1on1 if thats the concern.

The issue withe mesmer (and thief) isnt that they are OP. its that they punish mistakes hard, good playres make less mistakes and so the class levels out alot vs them.
Nobody is arguing mesmers arent a good class, they certainly are. But, i just dont find them anything special to deal with.
Eles and trap rangers give me more trouble than mesmers any day.

Dude did you watch the state of the game broadcast today?

The DEVS themselves said thiefs level out and are not OP at high end play.
Today in the HOTM , power the #2 ( i think still #2) rated Qp player in north america said thiefs almost dont exist in the top level of Na meta. Certainly that they are not too powerful.

Those are good sources.
And wvwvw is a whole other kettle of fish. IM refering to within the context of SPVP.

Culling is a bug and of course needs to be fixed. Interestingly i dont have a culling issue myself ever, at least not in spvp.
Also, the point stands thiefs are not OP.

Honeslty thiefs gave me troubl when i was new to pvp, but its rare a thief gives me trouble anymore. Of course talented players make any class deadly. And a thief can always catch you now and then when ur otherwise occupied in a fight w someone else. but the same goes for other burst classes, if not quite as well as the thief.

Also, since learning to play somehow makes one able to handle thiefs. I’d say that its definately a L2p issue.
But, your entitled to your opinion. so i’ll just leave it at that.

Redscope.6215:

daydream.2938:

Redscope.6215:

Liewec.2896:

guardian: you start downing, they push you back, you run over, down them.
warrior: you start downing, they knock you, you get up, down them.
mesmer: you start downing, they port, you wait for them to appear, down them.
ranger: you start downing, they rupt, may even wolf fear, down them.
engineer: you start downing, they pull, you get back up, down them.
thief: you start downing, they port, you run over, down them.
ele: you start downing, they mist, you follow, down them.

These are all 1v1 scenarios. In 1v1, all downed states are annoying at best…but not game-changing. (thief exception below)

The problem with downed states comes from more than a 1v1. Try to think outside the WoW box for a minute.

Also, a thief’s downed state stealth can be added directly to shadow refuge’s stealth. In other words, he puts SR down, you down him, he uses downed stealth, ports, heals, gets up, runs away.

Thieves are so OP right now it isn’t even funny. Stealth needs to change in a big way.

Thiefs are so OP half the top teams dont even run one.

Thats crazy OP.
./sarcasm.

So….half the top teams don’t run one? Which means half of them do…

What exactly is your point child?

My point is thiefs arent op. Also im not a child, no point making assumptions about peoples lives out of game, stick to the issues.
Today, the devs, in broadcast said while thiefs give people at the low end of play alot of trouble there effectiveness goes way down at the higher end of play.
So the issue with thiefs isnt there balance, if theres any issue its to do with skill curve. -ie how hard it is for a casual to learn to counter them.

But high end players dont consider thiefs to be OP, they are considered middle of the pack in terms of power.

And the power classes are run way more than 50% of the time. Eles/guardians, to a certain extent mesmers, up and coming rangers, yo will find on way more than half of the teams. In fact many teams run double eles. so its significant that many top teams dont even bring a thief. If it was op EVERY team would bring one.

Redscope.6215:

Liewec.2896:

guardian: you start downing, they push you back, you run over, down them.
warrior: you start downing, they knock you, you get up, down them.
mesmer: you start downing, they port, you wait for them to appear, down them.
ranger: you start downing, they rupt, may even wolf fear, down them.
engineer: you start downing, they pull, you get back up, down them.
thief: you start downing, they port, you run over, down them.
ele: you start downing, they mist, you follow, down them.

These are all 1v1 scenarios. In 1v1, all downed states are annoying at best…but not game-changing. (thief exception below)

The problem with downed states comes from more than a 1v1. Try to think outside the WoW box for a minute.

Also, a thief’s downed state stealth can be added directly to shadow refuge’s stealth. In other words, he puts SR down, you down him, he uses downed stealth, ports, heals, gets up, runs away.

Thieves are so OP right now it isn’t even funny. Stealth needs to change in a big way.

Thiefs are so OP half the top teams dont even run one.

Thats crazy OP.
./sarcasm.

Its worth mention that Jon sharp and the ones who appear on the podcast are probably not the ones who decide what they can and cant say.
That decision is made higher up.
Nor are they probably even able to comment on that.
So i commend them for being as transaparent as they are able to.

It would be nice to get more information and make this more of a conversation with the community however.

Blakey.5670:

The whole ranger heal thingy is a bit screwy.
Even on land,if you don’t dedicate your attention to finishing him, there is a good chance he’ll stand right up.

Even when i see the pet going in for a heal and i try to interrupt it, sometimes it doesn’t work.

its a bit like a downed ranger has a person ressing them even when they dont have a person ressing them ><.

Well, u can be assured something is being done, eles are probably coming down a tad.
And a tad is all thats necessary.

See thats my issue right there Khyras. I feel a casual player should be able to just play with his friends on a team any time he wants. Not have to solo Q or spend real cash to buy tickets so he can do team games.

that would be the worst barrier to entry, and the barriers to entry is where some of the biggest mistakes in spvp have come from.

If they do solo/duo Q. Something has to be done about the whole free/paid distinction.
SOme pve guild that has never done spvp and want to try it should be able to go in and Q up as a bunch of friends in a mmr system as a full team together. .
Dont force people to grind or spend real cash just to be able to play with a team of friends.

When i join a hotjoin and someone complains about how op mesmer/thief is because they just died to one. Right as im killing that same thief/mesmer while watching tv and eating a sandwich.

Sigh, underwater combat is problematic. They need to stay well clear of it for a while. And a couple of classes need adjustments underwater.

No substantial underwater meta exists, and it would be somewhat interesting to see how it would work. but i dont think most, and i mean a large majority like underwater combat much.

Ok. AFter thinking about it , i really like the idea of a solo/duo Q, only a few concerns come to mind.

Mainly the game would have to change.
Im not sure how much $ is spent to buy gems to buy tickets, i imagine its a very small number. So, under the assumption that this aspect of monotizing pvp hasnt been fruitful i propose the following.

IF they introduce solo/duo Q , then they need to get rid of paid tickets as a currency. ( not exactly certain how this would be done, or what would be done with existing tickets).

Teams, especially new teams who arent sitting on tons of tickets should not be forced to solo Q pvp for hours in order to farm up enough currency just to be able to play with there friends.
There should just be ranked solo/duo and ranked premade vs premade.

Another issue is new toons on a class they have never played, it might be prudent to attach rating to the individual characters, so when people roll something new they are not fighting competition at a high skill curve. Even if this was JUST for the solo/duo Q aspect and not team.

Also frees should also go 1vs1 team. Imagine how many people would q for instant free pops especially late at night.

This map is problematic for so many reasons.

its really just a skill curve class. If you stick with pvp for a bit and leanr to fight em, they are fine.

lowells arguments are good.
Only thing is, they would pretty much need to get rid of the paid/free distinction, and drop tourny tickets.

Because if teams are to learn, they have to play alot together and cant waste time solo quing for tickets.
So solo/duo Q bracket.
And team bracket.

Both 1vs1 with mmr.

I think it should be solo/duo Q. But after hearing enough arguments i think it could be a good idea.
but they will have to run it as an expirment for a week, and see what it does to premade vs premade ques.
This would have to also essentially eliminate the paid/free difference, or youd have 3 modes. And thats too much.

Thats the big issue. It would be stupid to ask teams to farm tickets solo just so they can play together.

Thats quite a radical change. Hmm.
I assume you mean solo/duo Q.

Id have to think about that.

Khyras.8021:

daydream.2938:

Khyras.8021:

daydream.2938:

Maybe im wrong. I guess the issue is you would have

1. Solo/duo ( should allow duos thats hardly swinging things) Q frees.
2. Premade frees.
3. Premade paids.

Its 2 that would be in trouble. They would HAVE TO make frees 1 team vs 1 team like they did with paids.

Premade frees are pointless , they only serve as a grinding spot for tickets (bad) or a place for premades to practice ( stomp pugs most of the time-bad).
There should only be solo rated and team rated queues where only reward is ladder rating, then weekly monthly and yearly solo and team tournaments ( monthly and yearly tournaments possibly with qualifier rounds based on ladder rating if you have limited amount of spots for tournament) with entry fee and proper rewards for winners ( improved team ladder standing, unique pets, titles,armor and weapon skins game shop items etc).
For practice you would have rented arenas. Perfect.

We dont have rented arenas, and i dont know how much that will work its hard to find 5 people let alone 10. New teams getting throne into paids for there first experience ever of being a 5 man team=a situation everybit as bad as solo quers running into premades now. It will be a complete mismatch facestomp.

So add matchmaking based on ladder rating to solo and team queues. Solved.

Paids require tickets which means that new teams who dont have a stockpile of tickets would have to divide time between solo quing trying to win tickets and then praticing. People shouldnt be forced to solo Q to team Q. Terrible idea for casual teams.

Khyras.8021:

daydream.2938:

Maybe im wrong. I guess the issue is you would have

1. Solo/duo ( should allow duos thats hardly swinging things) Q frees.
2. Premade frees.
3. Premade paids.

Its 2 that would be in trouble. They would HAVE TO make frees 1 team vs 1 team like they did with paids.

Premade frees are pointless , they only serve as a grinding spot for tickets (bad) or a place for premades to practice ( stomp pugs most of the time-bad).
There should only be solo rated and team rated queues where only reward is ladder rating, then weekly monthly and yearly solo and team tournaments ( monthly and yearly tournaments possibly with qualifier rounds based on ladder rating if you have limited amount of spots for tournament) with entry fee and proper rewards for winners ( improved team ladder standing, unique pets, titles,armor and weapon skins game shop items etc).
For practice you would have rented arenas. Perfect.

We dont have rented arenas, and i dont know how much that will work its hard to find 5 people let alone 10. New teams getting trown into paids for there first experience ever of being a 5 man team=a situation every bit as bad as solo quers running into premades now. It will be a complete mismatch facestomp.

Maybe im wrong. I guess the issue is you would have

1. Solo/duo ( should allow duos thats hardly swinging things) Q frees.
2. Premade frees.
3. Premade paids.

Its 2 that would be in trouble. They would HAVE TO make frees 1 team vs 1 team like they did with paids.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Oni: Not your fault, we talked about so many things, and I didn’t explain it well.

I’m watching all the threads right now about solo q.

IF you choose to do a solo q. make it solo/duo Q. and make it 1 team vs 1 team not the 8 tourny format that exists for frees now. I mean obviously itz catering to casuals, so better if the matchs are shorter.
Rewards might be tough to decide on. Maybe you change the winning chest reward to have 50/50 shot at winning paid ticket. So on average 2 wins to a paid ticket.

1team vs 1 team is the way to go for sure.

Addditionally this makes it more similar to other PvP games. Where you play a match, your rating goes up or down a bit usually.
Whether it be a match in league of legends or wow.

Id like to tell all the people complaining about thiefs to eat it.
Basically the devs all but acknowledged that thiefs are strong in the low level of play but perfectly fine at high level.

EXACTLY whats been argued on this forum for quite a while. Having trouble with theifs? L2P.

leman.7682:

It isn’t even like an invisible elo rating. It’s more like some kind of internal number or indicator that is a basis for a calculation of team indicator that is then used to match your current team against another one in a paid tourny.

So don’t expect that they have an invisible number tied to every account and winning a match adds to this number while losing subtracts some points. It probably shouldn’t even be called ‘rating’ considering what people think when they hear that.

What makes you speculate thus? =)

I wouldnt hate a solo/duo Q free tournies instead of hotjoin. But i feel it might be too raidical.
And honestly, just 1 team vs 1 team frees with matchmaking would mean that a huge preportion of your free tournies would be puggish vs puggish anyway.
And most good teams are now doing paids anyway non stop.

The fact that ‘elite’ players can beat even other elite mesmers 1on1 with most classes at least a fair shre of the time indicates that it really is a l2p issue.

If your having ttrouble w mesmers listen to some of this advice. Best advice watch good players stream, you will see them slaughter mesmers left right and center.

Mesmers are strong , but because of timewarp and portal, not because of clones.

Not enough of a player base.

I’d really like to know whats going to happen to free tournies since going 1vs1 paid was obviously such a success.

And ppl need to get off the devs nuts. Honestly compared to most games ive played, this is alot of open communication.

I for one would like my elo.
The only concern i have, is it might discourage people from playing with friends who arent very good and risk lowering there rating.

Making frees 1t vs 1 team would boost the rate of people quing so much that it would, in pratical effect become largely a solo/duo Q thing.
YOu woudlnt constantly run into premades.

Solo Q might equal huge wait times, i think thats the primary concern and its a legit concern.
Tbh, if they made frees 1vs1 and introduced match making, you would get on the whole decent match ups. though obviously now and then youd get stomped. Thing is, even solo vs solo q ull get stomped now and then if you get a bunch of dunces and other team doesnt.

Blakey.5670:

Again, L2P comments from “elite players”.

For the only class to having working,worth-while pets (illusions), they get a metric-kitten-ton of invunrability ability,stun breaks,teleports and invisability – coupled with awesome damage.

I dare anyone here to run a fraps on how to “properly kill a mesmer” with anything but the other 2 problematic classes right now – thief and elementist.

Go ahead, TEACH US HOW TO PLAY. trolls.

Dude, trap rangers are the BEST thing to fight a mesmer 1on1. My goodness, its so easy you could probably do it while watching tv and eating your lunch on a ranger.
Also thief vs mesmer is kinda 50/50 either way.

But, you are correct a ele will also win the alot of 1on1s vs a mesmer.

Also, 1on1 isnt the game type. If 1on1 determined everything nobody would play anything but rangers and eles.

Also, depending on the spec engies can be really decent at fighting mesmers 1on1. I’ve watched teldoo beat many a memser 1on1 , who are 400+ qp players rank45 +.
Honestly, mesmers are beatable. I had trouble with them, i got better, now i find i can beat most mesmers even solo. Some mesmers kill me, but thats because i got outplayed.
Also not all match ups are good 1on1. 100B warriors for example really struggle in 1on1, but are great in joining teamfights, or finishing someone off quick by joining a fight.

How can anyone counter it? easily.

If the thief is fighting you on a point. just dodge out there deathblossoms and kite em a bit. they dont have much burst, so if they are not on a point, ignore them and goto a point.
All you have to do is kite out for a few seconds for iniative to go down a bit and time your hits then. Also dont stand in melee w them if u have a ranged weapon.

I dont know how this gives you trouble, i absolutely destroy thiefs who try this stuff on me.

When asking for advice list your class please , because that effects advice alot. IF your an ele for example, you should pretty much never lose a 1on1 to a thief. If your a 100b warrior , then indeed your in trouble on this match up.
so without your class its hard to give specific advice.

I find fighting trap rangers , not mesmers the most annoying thing :/

Honestly. Its true that once you reach a certain level of skill mesmers level out quite a bit.
Portal and timewarp have some issues, but ignoring that mesmers arent that bad. There is an awful lot of QQ on the forums and its sad because so few of it is from top players. Who are too busy killing most of the mesmers they run into to worry about it.

They arent even the most powerful class in the game. sigh. ]

Also, trap rangers are the most annoying thing to fight! =)

Shrug i mean sure this game needs work, Most people would agree.
Thats a fact.
=)

Bells and whitsles?

I was hoping for matchmaking and some balance tweaks.

Umm it is a fact dude, theres a ton of games that allow people to make equal comps and builds…
Also, things are , or are not facts, regardless of what people think about them.
He might be wrong that it is a fact. But its not an opinion that something is a fact. IT is the case (which makes it a fact) or it isnt (which means its not ).

I sometimes wonder if hotjoins should go.

-_-. Maybe single/duo q frees 1on1. and team frees .

i dont know. -_-