Guild Wars 2

Syko.3726:

No thanks, underwater isn’t just balanced enough to be added on the competitive level.

This. Holy freaking cow are rangers overpowered in underwater.
Also, underwater isnt especially fun.

But, they need to work on somethings, like underwater stomp or quick way to kill b4 they can have significant underwater in a map.

Ive already seen rangers/eles being annoying enough in temple of the silent storm by running into the water when low where they are near impossible to kill.

waka.9826:

daydream.2938:

Sound in theory but, i can promise you this would lead to some of the most overpowered specs ever. And would make balance even more difficult than it is now.

Maybe but we wouldn’t be seeing cookie cutter builds everywhere.

Yes we would, cookie cutter builds are a result of evolved meta. They would reappear as soon as people rediscovered the ‘officially considered’ best specs for each class.

You can figure this out by looking down at the bottom where kills/deaths are listed. BUT, yes the scoreboard isnt very indicative of contribution.

Bunkers are awesome at helping matchs be won, but often place last on scoreboard.

I dont care in the least about continuity from gw1 .
But, i do care about class balance, and right now ele is on top, and warrior along with engy are kiting the bottom.

Sound in theory but, i can promise you this would lead to some of the most overpowered specs ever. And would make balance even more difficult than it is now.

Bad experience both ways.
First off these pugs, if they run into decent premades will get stomped.
Secondly, if these premades run into pugs it will be boring match where they wont learn anything.

without a matchmaking system , at least require paids to have a team.

I’ll tell you. You never have to wonder where these threads are.

They need ELO . Not QP.

1. No gear.
2. Dodging.

The issue here is alot of servers have empty HOTm.

This is somewhat mitigated by being able to guest to anvil rock or desolution if you are EU.

Of course the ‘pros’ switch to the most powerful classes. And they will here at a very high rate if the spvp becomes popular and a ladder gets introduced.
Y? Because, the higher the level of play you get to, the less skill becomes a variable.

That sounds counter intuititve , but its not. At a very high level of play , all the players are very skilled. So, differences in class balance effect high end games MORE than low end games. Because that difference gets expressed more, as the difference in skill and understanding in the game is smaller.

So, what one will see in top end play is a disproportionate loading of classes in a certain direction. Happens in dota, Leauge of legends, wow. Everywhere.

This is why, YOU BALANCE FROM THE TOP DOWN. Because at the higest level of plays, class balance is being expressed more in the variance of performance, than at the lower levels of play.

Poxxia.1547:

@daydream: Even the best players (even the best thieves) have said that some aspects of thieves are OP. Some of the best thieves find, that their burst is fine as it is, and some don’t. Some of the non-thieves best players I have talked to, find thieves burst to make the game non-fun, cause frustration, be unavoidable (and hence lower the skills required), make the game more dull etc etc etc. What you are saying is in direct contrast to what I hear. It isn’t a unanimous decision/vote.

The difference is however: They choose to play with it and try to make their voice be heard where they feel they can be heard … either by working around thieves or by simply using them, or voicing it at “conferences” (that is what I like to think, at least). Atm there are other things to exploit/benefit from, so thieves are not a high priority. That doesn’t however in any way make the issues smaller or make their burst ok.

Ive talked about this elsewhere. Burst in this game getting a look is something im fine with, as long as thiefs( who bring nothing but burst to the table) get some compensation.

But all the same thief burst is not the biggest balance issue. Nor are ‘warriors in a good place’.

felivear.1536:

daydream.2938:

Free tournies won grant tickets.
Right now its a barrier to entry for sure. and a problem.
But i have over a100 paid tickets and i havnt spent a cent.

they need to reduce the cost of paids to 3. Also , if you place high in paids you earn gems (not this week w the 1vs1 tourny). and gems can buy tickets, so consistantly winning allows you to consistantly Q.

I don’t think a barrier for entry is a problem as long as it is very small. It encourages teams to group up with good players and coordinate. 1 ticket, I think, is a perfect system. I’m OK with no tickets for wins, but OK if they give 1 for a win too.

Now, having said that, I think free tournament needs to be a solo/duo only now, where players can earn their tickets back against other players that are also solo/duo queueing.

I disagree, new teams need a consequence free way to pratice.

slowpoke.1894:

1. Thief. Insane burst combined with the ability to disappear. There is a reason you see more of these than any other class in spvp. People love to faceroll and always have.

2. Mesmer. burst/survivability. There is a reason this is the the class you see more frequently than anything other than thieves.

3. D/D elementalist. Great mobility, good burst, great survivability, great cc all in one build. The FOTM right now.

The above 2 1/4 classes are ezmode. In pvp you are playing from the ladies’ tees.

4. Warriors are in a good place, they are strong but I don’t believe they are OP.

5. Guardians, don’t think they are as strong as warriors but still in a good place.

6. Rangers, definitely not as strong as a Warrior, need to work harder for kills, but ok.

In my opinion the above classes are in good shape but just not as good as the top tier.

7. Necro, definitely need to work a lot harder with this class to do well.

8. Engineer, the weakest class in pvp.

The above two classes are definitely a challenge to play well.

So like every other mmo to date there are imbalances. I hope Anet works on them.

YOu see more thiefs in hotjoin. You dont see more thiefs in paid tournies. IN paids eles are probalby the most represented class.
So yes, amongst the bads who play hotjoins, thiefs are considered OP.
amongst good players, they arent.

Also, warriors are in good place? they have 1 viable tourny build. And barely at that.
Thiefs are fine, warriors need a buff. Guaridans at 5? they are on every competitive team and by far the strongest bunkers.

See hotjoin opinions? you might as well ask someone playing another game to contribute there opinion.

1on1 with an ele (unless you are an ele or ranger) is basically try to bait the ele into making a mistake.

played perfectly, or even well, the ele will almost always win. You have to surprise em with your burst usually when they under 70% and intreupts are super paramount.

Many peoples opinions are not very informed. So quantity isnt the way to find truth here.

The performance and representation at the highest levels of play are the best external to opinions data set we can abstract from. Unfortunately since we dont have a ranked system, and that data itself is from informal observations, opinons must crop up.

What people feel is OP however isnt very interesting. What actually is OP is.
Since by defintion most players cluster around average a quantitative approach would get the average point of view. When , in all likehoood the point of view of TOP players is more accurate to what objectively is , and isnt OP.

If most ppl feel class X is OP. But top players have no trouble dealing with class X. Then its matter of factly a L2p issue. However, if top players consistantly have trouble dealing with X, but X takes alot of skill to do. Then it might be OP but not noticed at the lower levels because few players are able to pull it off.

DAta, combined with top level opinions, not quantity reveals balance issues.

I dont think a solo rated Q is needed at all.

hotjoin . unrated (which u can pug Q for).

Then rated. (similar to paid in that need a team to Q).

This is known about and is apparently something they are working to correct.

Free tournies won grant tickets.
Right now its a barrier to entry for sure. and a problem.
But i have over a100 paid tickets and i havnt spent a cent.

they need to reduce the cost of paids to 3. Also , if you place high in paids you earn gems (not this week w the 1vs1 tourny). and gems can buy tickets, so consistantly winning allows you to consistantly Q.

Are you running solo? because if not , saving the necro from theif pressure is a great way to utilize a team.
If your are running solo, make two necros, one a little bit less squishy and good for fights w theives, the other glass wells build or basically what ur using now.

then during the countdown look at your enemy roster and pick betwen both those necros.
But, if your with a team, get them to help you, it doesnt take much pressure to send a burst thief running for the hills.

Also, i would never recommend running with no stun breakers. Every class has to sacrifice some dps for this.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Still a brainless class with too much “I messed up” buttons, map control, and team fight presence. Seriously a godly Mesmer will be a trash Warrior or Ranger, that’s just how the skill relation is between the Mesmer and those two other classes are.

Umm. An equally skilled ranger will trash a mesmer in 1on1 if speced right. Everytime.
Traps just mess up shatter.

It is just a one week trial.

Mesmers not too bad if u can keep up w the real one quickly.
Ele /ranger/ guardian are super tough 1on1 and can be just shy of essentianlly unkillable.

QP is ironic, it favors those who play more than it does those who are the best. (and its the best who should goto tournies).
Also for those new to the game who havnt had months of arming up QP thats a huge disadvantage as well.

STILL. the people who did farm that Qp should be compensated for it somehow.

Volrath.1473:

Who said anything about sweeping changes in feb/march?
They said a pvp patch is comming they never said seeping! Not to mention the company policy of changing/balancing little by little, no drastic changes will ever happen. If it takes them 7-8 month to change a little how long will we have to wait until the pvp aspect of the game is enjoyable? I’m afraid that when that finally happens there wont be many ppl to play with.

Drastic changes usually make things worse than better. incremental changes is the way to accurately hone in on balance.

1
2
3

for ticket prices? might not be bad idea.

Zyrusticae.7245:

butch.8136:

^ Pvp is getting attention in febr/march. They’ve been saying that since december.

People keep saying this, but it remains completely, horribly moronic.

You CANNOT take 7 months to FINALLY introduce some sweeping changes to the game. It’s too late! It’s already too late, and taking even MORE time is just adding insult to injury.

The PvP side of the game receives so little support it’s absolutely laughable. Any other PvP game, especially the MOBAs, have been receiving several times as much support and actually seeing changes that shake up the meta in some way. Here? Nothing. Nothing at all.

It’s pathetic.

We will keep saying it till feb/march are over. If you dont want to wait nobodys keeping you here. But they cant just rush out buggy content. should they have done it earlier? probalby .
Are there major pressing issues? definately.
ARe ppl getting impatient and leaving? sure.
Yet, they gave us a timeframe, and thats what they are working towards, the only thing worse than getting no content is broken half working buggy content. If , by the end of febuarary nothing major happens in spvp alot of ppl who are waiting on the timeframe given by them will vote with there feet.

But they cant wave a wand and make it happen today when they already announced a timeframe.

Chris.7653:

JonathanSharp.7094:

We’re here and we’re watching the forums. We’ll keep looking for ideas/suggestions.

We have a lot of other stuff planned, but we’re looking forward to the results from this test!!!

Jonathan Sharp, man we love ya but we keep hearing about these awesome things planned and then we get all hyped about this big patch to come…

This is the third one in a row that has failed to listen to a lot of the communities concerns.

So with all due respect, if you come here and say you are here and listening, could you actually listen?

Listen to who? Have you noticed that the forums are often not consistant on what needs to be done. or what the problems are. it takes time and data to figure out what are geniune issues w the game, or problems that are felt by a solid majority of players.
Then correcting that takes time, and coding and has to be intergrated into what exists already in a bug free way, which requires testing.

Honestly the mods on this game respond on the forums more than any other game ive played. So, nothings perfect, but this is most interaction ive ever had with the devs in a game.

@ Johnathan sharp. Honestly a match making system would be ideal. One of the reasons frees are doing well right now , is they are loaded with pugs and more friendly than they have ever been to noobs.

I know a match making system can be tough to impliment. What i present below is not ultimately a viable match making solution. But it might improve the gaming experience of players and be easy to impliment. If its easy and something you guys can do quick and dirty while a more permanent solution is worked on, then fantastic. If its not easy to introduce then of course proceed to the more permanent solution directly.

Free tournies-
ADD up the ranks of the players quing. So 5 rank 10s, would be 50, then put them against the next lowest cumulative ranks. so 74 lets say. So a bunch of r10-12s fighting each other.

Take the two highest cumulative rank teams. And basically group them in the same way. So from top to bottom each team is matched up with the closest cumulative ranked team with a randomizer for the rare tie.
I know its not perfect as it doesnt identiifty premades. And low rank premades will destroy there low rank pugs, and high ranked premades will destroy high ranked pugs.

But thats better than high ranked premades destroying low ranked pugs.
It basically helps the first round alot, the two highest rank teams fighting each other first round. the 3rd and 4th highest ranked teams fighting each other first round. All the way to 7th and 8th highest ranked teams matching up.

This isnt a long term matchmaking solution, its a free tourny adjustment that would be (relatively) easy to code. all they would have to do is have a way to count up the pvp ranks compare and matchmake on that basis. ITs very crude, but it would help, not solve the current problem.

team rank 400 would be really high (team of five 40’s for example). Team rank 330 might be second highest, and they would face off in first round.

It would reduce, not eliminate the amount of bad match ups in free, and its a simple formula till they come up with a proper elo or w/e they have planned.

Making the most difference where its needed, in the first round.

It is the right way.
Think of an analogy from evolution. Large mutations tend, almost always to be defects that are detrimental. small incremental changes are more reliable and less prone to the law of unintended consequences.

To give example, alot of people think backstab on thiefs should be nerfed by 15% or 20%. If u did that sort of nerf to that single ability, thiefs would become unviable in high end play.

Most players, do not understand the game at a high level, and there (inconsistant as they dont all agree) call for sweeping changes that are SOO obvious to them (but not to everyone else) are of no value to anyone.

Aye tournies are full of pugs, annoying if ur solo quing as an experienced player but great for newbs/ the occasional premade doing frees.

Quick popping paids are great. The fact that they fixed it from 3 to 1 tickets did so much to accomplish this.

less barriers to entry , means more popularity and success. So. honestly the quick reaction to the 3 ticket cost fix was very welcome.

this happens frequently on patch day. When a servers coming down soon for another update (which just literally happened ) it wont let you join a tourny.

Just wait it out a bit.

To there credit they quickly adjusted ticket costs to 1 from 3, that was a fast community reaction update. And good on them.

There is supposed to be serveral incremental pvp patchs. The first one we have been told to expect sometime in febuary.

I just saw the cost on pvp paids drop to 1 ticket. Im not sure if thats a bug or something they changed. If its something they changed THANK YOU ANET FOR LISTENING.

Theres , from i heard twp pvp patchs, one in feburary, the other march. i presume one will be a major balance patch, the other a ladder system of some sort.

If pvp doesnt become popular , it wont ever be worth much. And it wont become popular if they make it pay to play. Or grind to play.

They should prevent Quing up a half hour before a patch. and then announce that half hour patch in advance so people know why. That way most tournies will finish b4 servers coming down.

I think this eventually corrects itself.
But hopefully if not they can help.

Who the heck knows. might be terrible. But, nobody should be suprised no big pvp changes (to balance etc) when they said specifically this patch would not have that.

Sometime in the month of febuary. so the next 30 days.

Adamentalist.3872:

Yes we all saw pve…… where is the PvP?

FEburary. like they said. They have literally annnounced that there will be feb/march patchs that deal with pvp.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

just… wow.

Literally 0 changes to bunkers, barely any actual balance adjustments at all.

seriously what have you been doing the past month

They annoucned already balance changes are not in jan but Feb. So thats not suprising, the ridiculous cost of 3 tickets for 1 tourny match that awards no gems is the issue now.

rpz.5364:

they had the chance to make paids pop all day long for one week but instead they decided to kill it for one week – esports here we come

This.

Im so sad i really had high hopes for this patch. I didnt expect balance changes i know thats coming in febuary. but i was hoping my team that doesnt have 1000 gems and cant afford frequent paid tounries could enjoy one week of cheap paids to pratice and learn to play.

big sadface

I’m hearing the no gems in paids is a bug apparently. So it might get fixed. (unconfirmed heard on a stream on twitch tv).

Arena net, your killing your game. YOu need to do as much as possible to make pvp popular. Attempts to monotize it at backfiring (ie law of unintended consequences).

Consider league of legends vs dota 2. Leauge was free to play and became popular, by time dota 2 caught on to this and went f2p league was way ahead of it in popularity.

SEriuosly WTF YOUR PVP NEEDS TO BECOME POPULAR please help it ANET.

Stop the huge grind to get into comeptive play, nobodys spending money to get farmed by top teams. If u want teams to get good they need need pratice and nobody wants to suffer grind/$ to pratice.

Liewec.2896:

nerva.7940:

aoe nerfs are coming in february and they will shake up the game in a BIG way. pretty much everything will change. just relax.

be serious, everyone said that about the november update, Anet let us down,
then everyone said that this update would be the holy grail and again, they let us down, by now it should be clear that they dont give a flying shoe about pvp.

everybody didnt say that. Anet specifcally said the january patch was going to be a minor patch the big spvp changes are coming in febuary.
If , after the feb patch , things are still terrible for , then let the panic ensue.

They should consider merging the heart of the mists or something IDK.
Treat it like lions arch, where you have overflows or something.

A big reason so few teams play paids is they cost tickets which cost either farm time, or RL money. and if ur not good u get stomped in paids. So ppl dont want to pay money or farm time just to get stomped.

Its the hugest barrier to entry. they want to monotize pvp, but to make pvp worthwhile it needs to be popular. Getting in the way of it being popular isnt helping pvp grow in value.
They need to insentivise ppl to pvp not disinsentivess them.