Guild Wars 2

If they wanted the game to be really skill based… everything would have been a skillshot and dodge rolling would just move the charector.

Then dmg mitigations would be typically percent based (shield stance on warrior shield, 50% dmg mitigation while up, exc.)

silvermember.8941:

Not to interupt you, since you seem to enjoy hearing yourself talk but people say crap all the time. I find it more likely they got kicked out of alpha for something other than what they claim. People do this all the time especially with the “I got banned for blah blab…” usually turns out that they were lying just to get internet points.

also even if they were in alpha, I doubt ARenanet was going to be stupid enough hold the game because the least significant part (population and in MONEY) of it wasn’t up to par to some random poster PoV. part of a successful product is all about timing, and the game seems fine without the PvP being great (if you look at the profits and content).

You seem to be trying to justify why its OK to make bad PvP.
I mean it happened so it was caused by something.
But that’s doesn’t mean it’s worth failing in.
Ideally the devs would have made outstanding PvP and that’s what they were aiming for… for their actions, with regards to PvP, to be on point to creating a more enjoyable game…. yet what they released didn’t do that.

What we are discussing is why their attempt failed.
It wasn’t because a lack of constructive criticism on the forums, there have been waves and waves of well written content on here….

I mean, no, the devs shouldn’t take the advice of every person critiquing their game.
But no one ever expected them to…
But that is entirely different than ignoring most every critique.

Caine.8204:

Seriously.

How about, as a community, you come together with positive suggestions, critical feedback regarding what, specifically, is the issue with the meta at the moment, and what they can do to change it.

You haven’t been here long have you?

You say the community is the issue…
There have been dozens of EXTREMELY well written threads detailing out and thoroughly discussing just that…
Anet has ignored every one.

Anyone in Alpha who critiqued Anet’s vision of the gam was kicked from the kittening group…

It’s not a problem with the community… this game has had one of the best, most supportive, passionate communities I have ever seen… for the few months it was alive.

Something Anet made… doesn’t work?!?!
Shocker.

A million threads on this…
A million, minus like a dozen, terrible ideas.

MIrra.3604:

garethh.3518:

MIrra.3604:

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

I don’t think you realize what you are saying.
CC’locks are less entertaining to play and play against than conditions.

The reason the ‘condi meta’ was so hated was because it was dull as kitten to play with and play against…
Your saying the fix to that should be worse than the problem…
What.
The.
kitten.

Get a job at Anet you fool, I’m sure you’d fit right in.

Why would I or people who play “condi meta” give a kitten if it is boring to play? You play to win and you bring the build/setup to win. It doesn’t matter if it a 1 shot cheese spec or a passive build or a CC locked hammer train- whatever it takes to win (within the rules of course).

If I wanted a game that relied on skill, I wouldn’t be playing GW2 because this game is so easy mode. Heck, the system isn’t even built to support competitive play i.e. why can’t I pick which condition gets removed first?

So in the end, you’re the fool for thinking this game will be anything other than easy cheese mode.

Again, I don’t think you understand.
“I’m sure you’d fit right in [with Anet]”.
No that doesn’t mean, I think Anet is going to give GW2 super skilled gameplay.
No it doesn’t mean that I think GW2 will be some super competitive Esports beast.

It means your idea is obviously trash and will only make the game even less playable.
Not competitive.
Less entertaining to play.

Like next to every idea from Anet.

If all you wanted was to win, counter-meta wouldn’t matter.
If anything it would be bad because you would be playing the peak of the current meta, so smashing most people with it…. having hard counters to the top tier kitten is only asking to lose…

MIrra.3604:

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

I don’t think you realize what you are saying.
CC’locks are less entertaining to play and play against than conditions.

The reason the ‘condi meta’ was so hated was because it was dull as kitten to play with and play against…
Your saying the fix to that should be worse than the problem…
What.
The.
kitten.

Get a job at Anet you fool, I’m sure you’d fit right in.

There are a million things ruining soloQ.
Congrats, you found 1.

Maps.

Stat scaling.

That’d be a good enough start.
I think some people would actually come back then.

Furajir.3815:

OH HAI POISON HERE, I’M YOUR COUNTERPLAY TO HEALING SIGNET! /WAVE

That’s called counter-speccing.
Counter play involves actual play…

Dee Jay.2460:

I don’t really feel the game deserves it but apparently it meant a lot to the devs.

It’s just that I feel balancing overall and the game-design haven’t really progressed well over the past year.

That’s the same opinion as that of like the hundreds of thousands of others who bought but can’t get around to playing this game.

Leuca.5732:

garethh.3518:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Yes we do.
Do you know why GW1 was successfull?
Anet made so many skills, so many hundreds of skills to pick from, that by shear odds, out of that random unthought out mess, there would accidently be a number of deep engaging skills…
Like 2/3 of the skills were utterly useless… but out of the rest there were some extremely well done ones.

In GW2, 2/3 of the kitten is still useless… but since there is only like a dozen choices to a class, there aren’t thousands, the pool of ‘accidentally well made specs’ is depressingly small.
Anet thrives under ‘random spam’ and tossing conquest while going more in that direction (while slowly winnowing out cheese) seems the only way GW2 could ever get anywhere.

I played GW1 for a long time, and while I do see your point I just see more of an opportunity to solve the problem in this game than in its predecessor.

To clarify, I don’t think adding skills is an inherently terrible idea, I just don’t think it should be so soon, when there is ample opportunity to fix skills that don’t see use.

That’s too much hope for what Anet has shown.
They aimed at GW2 being lag friendly and devoid of cheesey insta-gibs…

The devs just haven’t shown a single reason to for anyone to believe that they actually can fix the game to a purpose. That they can take on tasks like ‘tweaking skills and making the gameplay more ENGAGING because of it’.
Not balanced, flipping a coin is balanced but not a good game, making more skill more viable is only worthwile if the changes make the gameplay more engaging…

NevirSayDie.6235:

Does that change the way teamfights work? Yes. Is that bad? Only if you want a traditional MMO. It seems that you want a specific type of “depth” that is based around teamwork and hard counters, like in trinity MMOs. GW2 will never have that. If you want to continue the discussion, you should focus on why you feel other types of game design are better than the path GW2 takes. The devs can’t change base-level design choices that were made five years ago. Again, if you’re just in it for the argument, that’s cool.

Yeah you are right, teamfights are different without the healer/tank/dps roles and that isn’t a bad thing.
But I didn’t even mention anything to do with that…

Here, I’ll try to make this as direct as possible.

Token MMOs, the maps are teamfight based.
GW2’s maps are scattered skirmish based.

GW2 has flopped.
GW2 isn’t getting better.
GW2 needs a substantial change and the devs don’t seem apt to much work into it.
That limits the games options substantially.

Does that mean GW2 has to try be a token MMO to do well?
No
Does that mean I want GW2 to play like anything with a healer/tank/dps trinity?
No
Does it mean GW2 can benefit from a tried and true MMO map style?
Yes

A map based on team v team combat, something that really drives other MMOs, is a solid step to fixing GW2. It helps cover up some of the biggest issues in GW2 (what I talked about in every other post) without massive amounts of work and is proven to work.

NevirSayDie.6235:

garethh.3518:

Classes aren’t made with the depth and teamwork to make this conquest work.
The devs have shown time and time again that they can’t make classes like that.

Can’t agree there. There are many top-tier builds yet to be discovered, and additionally many that will become top-tier after small fixes/changes to balance. If you don’t like GW2 at the base design level—i.e. you dislike every profession—no new game mode will ever make it enjoyable for you. If you just like debating on the forums of a game you know you’ll never enjoy, I’m happy to oblige but question your decision.

Since you didn’t seem to read more than a line and then assume what the rest of my post said, I’ll try to make it more clear…

Yes I am criticizing the core design of GW2, no that doesn’t mean ‘no new map would fix that’… on the contrary it is exactly that…

Anyways, to have conquest as the main map, the classes have to be made EXTREMELY well. This conquest is based on scattered skirmishes, meaning the vast majority of the depth comes from what the devs built into your class.

You won’t be playing with allies, and for sure not the same allies all game…. to have teamwork, support need to be this general thing innate to most classes so there is the potential for teamwork and more depth throughout the game.
GW2 doesn’t have that.

To keep fighting dynamic in this conquest, classes have to be made to be extremely deep, more so than MOBAs, through skillshots and/or well made debuffs/counters…
GW2 doesn’t have that.

That doesn’t mean I hate GW2 in every way, it just means this conquest doesn’t fit GW2 in any way. If you read what I wrote, the solution is actually kind of clear…

Make teamwork more accessible.
Make the game have more depth.
A change in map is by far the easiest way to begin fixing the game.
Make GW2 more based off of team v team fights.

Leuca.5732:

Recently it was brought to my attention that at some point in the (relatively) near future there will be new skills added to the game.

Yes we do.
Do you know why GW1 was successfull?
Anet made so many skills, so many hundreds of skills to pick from, that by shear odds, out of that random unthought out mess, there would accidently be a number of deep engaging skills…
Like 2/3 of the skills were utterly useless… but out of the rest there were some extremely well done ones.

In GW2, 2/3 of the kitten is still useless… but since there is only like a dozen choices to a class, there aren’t thousands, the pool of ‘accidentally well made specs’ is depressingly small.
Anet thrives under ‘random spam’ and tossing conquest while going more in that direction (while slowly winnowing out cheese) seems the only way GW2 could ever get anywhere.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Conquest was a solid decision for a first game mode. Among other things, it encourages:

1. Team splits. These are necessary for professions that excel in smaller engagements.
2. Build variety. Without the trinity, a pure teamfight mode would generally have two roles: group support (guardians) and group dps/control (warriors, necros). Conquest creates the role of roamer, bunker, and nodefighter, while keeping the roles of group support and group dps.
3. Mobility. Some professions have better mobility than others; this needed to be rewarded without being overpowered. Conquest does that.

New modes will be fun as well, but I don’t think it’s a simple as “Here’s king of the hill guys! Have fun discovering which three professions are best at it!” Nor is it simply a matter of homogenizing all the professions so they’ll all be equally good at it.

Oh sure it was a solid idea… IF the dev team could build on it.
In an ideal world sure they would be able to retain depth and engagement while having those splits in a completely unique map type (build variety is unrelated)
BUT, and it is a big but, the devs have to keep up.

Conquest, this conquest, it forces splits, which means characters have to have MOBA level depth to make it work. In MMOs the skills tend to be shallow and poorly thought out because they can get away with it, in typical MMOs maps are based around ‘team on team fights’ and that innately makes depth and teamwork…
GW2 tossed that…
For nothing…

It wasn’t a bad idea in literally every regards, but few idea are…
Conquest is a bad idea because it kills GW2, plain and simple.
It could have merits, but in the end those merits are only drawbacks because they cause people to hesitate when deciding whether or not to toss this atrocity of a game-style…

Classes aren’t made with the depth and teamwork to make this conquest work.
The devs have shown time and time again that they can’t make classes like that.
Conquest has to go.

No.

Might as well make PvP into just a bunch of mini-games at that point.

They should have kittening scrapped conquest ages ago.
If they threw GW2 into a token MMO map, people would still be playing the game.

GW2 would actually be a fun game, with a few tweaks most notably to particle effects, to play group v group.

It’s their own stubborn fault this game is dead.

XGhoul.7426:

The devs actually really care alot about spvp balance…

They do, but openness won’t change much.
Tossing patch notes around the forums… in the best of situations it’d end with a mildly more balanced/entertaining game, at the same slow pace, that’s if random people on the forums actually think through what they are saying, actually think on the ‘objective highly understanding’ level necessary to truly help a game.

But that’s the forums issue as much as the devs… people seem to be tunnel visioned on balance.

Other MMOs have gotten by with worse… with far worse… balance than GW2.
Why?

Because the gameplay was entertaining.
It was engaging, it was teamwork related, it gave people a purpose in a group and gave a better style than this conquest.

Anyways, fixing that, it’s really in the devs hands and theirs alone… they didn’t think through next to anything in GW2 and only they can try to salvage from it.

There’s a difference between incapable and ‘not caring’.
The devs care about GW2.
The devs are incapable of fixing GW2.

They want to, it’s their job, i don’t really doubt that part…
But “care” doesn’t mean you “can”.
And the devs by no means have the mindsets for making MMOs.
Tragically.

Honestly, I’m pretty sure I got it worked out.

The devs work their best around random.

Take GW1 for example, the game was amazing, yet 2/3 of the skills the devs made were useless. They just shotgunned out options and by chance some of the kitten they made was good.
It was very good.

Take GW2… the devs constricted it with caring… they wanted it to assuredly be good soooooo bad that they cut out the random shotgun approach and went for complete deliberate control.
2/3 of what they made was still useless.
But that 2/3 is now in a place that it is devastating to the game.

The map choice (solo-skirmishy conquest) puts an extreme emphasis on your class/spec to what you can do, making imbalances way more obvious, making depth extremely spec dependent… meaning the abilities have to be extremely well made for the gameplay to have a shot at being engaging…
Yet without the leagues of random skill to choose from, they couldn’t accidentally make depth and engaging gameplay through the abilities…

MMOs get their depth, typically, from the positioning and teamwork in a team v team engagement… GW2 tossed that for… for a focus on specs…
The gameplay suffered terribly.

A quick list of the failings that came from their new approach…
-The map lacks any of the depth of MOBA maps so obviously will never hold up to esports standards. Anyone who isn’t a bunker is pushed to be a burst dps because roaming is best done by burst.
-The stats, the physical stats scale so well together that you have to have high power and crit allot to deal viable physical dmg. That pushes heavily for a burst or bust meta (see the issue? there is supposed to be balance, pro’s and cons for burst, not pro-pro)
-Condition removal seems built around conditions being mild debilitation. Speccing is setup as if most specs can and should manage without any condition removal. That is leaps, bounds and a few more strides from ‘how conditions are setup’.
-The lack of teamwork… Anet added in little to no teamwork innately in classes, you typically have to sacrifice a utility for a long CD that works with team-mates. That is outright deadly to the casual playerbase of an MMO.

ghaleon.2861:

Solo queue is a nightmare, 99.9% of all my matches are 4v5, afkers, rage quitters. I’m done, good bye community I have lost all hope. And there’s no point of making a team, because team arenas is dead……Heart of the mist is a ghost town. Going back to LoL until pvp in this game gets good.

I did the same 3~ months ago.
Never been happier.

I called it, that the devs were gonna drive off the rest of their players by the end of the year. If they just did next to nothing, if they just let the game stagnate but filled the players with promises and occasional balance changes… it would have a population by then…

They had to pull some crazy obviously destructive patch… like splitting solo-team que so you literally can’t play the game with friends… to actually make my prediction come true…
Lo and behold.
kittening devs.

NevirSayDie.6235:

If you don’t like anything about the game at all, I’d suggest doing something else with your spare time. I could understand lobbying for changes to changeable issues, but if you hate literally everything about the game and still play it, that’s a little weird.

I haven’t played it in a while, I just peruse the forums when I’m REALLY bored at school.
But pointing out where they went wrong… is pointing out where they went wrong.
It just happening to be a large part of the game (not every) is a tragedy.

I had an outrageous amount of hope for this game so I guess I’m kinda stuck still hoping Anet decides to actually fix all their kitten-ups… which is an entirely unrealistic thought considering how the devs have tended to make more issues than they solve…

The whole useless/OP isn’t a problem, most MMOs have far worse balance… yet are entertaining to play…

Conquest just puts such a focus on your spec and your spec alone, forgeting about things like positioning… like teamwork… those things are supposed to be in there to add in other factors, ones to diminish the appearance of imbalance and make gameplay far deeper without much work by the devs… that’s what team fight based MMOs are for…
GW2 tossed that for jack kitten.

Their ability scheme is trash.
Their maps are trash.
Their match setup (S/TPvP) is trash.
Their character building is hectic to say the least.

They cut out the necessities of good MMO gameplay for shiny graphics and an Esports logo.

Allie Murdock.8152:

In #1 you’re saying that you can’t understand enough of the combat without being latched on to one specific player. Then, in #2, you say that epic skills should have epic animations. If we did #2, would that help with #1?

Things like ‘endurance being an observable bar above health’ and ‘Utilities being shown’ would greatly help the game.

It’s ‘hidden CD’ cluttered as kitten right now.
Anything to increase transparency so ability to counterplay and understanding of the game, without sitting your camera on one player throughout a match, would be wonderful.

Kinda laughable that the 2 most important things in GW2 for the company, watchability and cash shop setup, are the worst done.

cuge.5398:

If we choose to add it back through a stat buff, it should be a 20% more stats distributed to the whole team, so… 5% bonus stats to the 4 remaining members.

They are missing 100% of a players stats, which, split to 4 (since your not giving him back his stats), is 25% to each player.
If you cut that by 4 again for no reason, down to 6~%, it is pretty much a laughably forgettable adjustment.

15→25% buffs could make a really interesting mode… 1v7~ where one man has ridiculous stats and, with a complete switchup to map/objectives and CC locking… it could be entertaining.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Ppl without the slightest clue as to how development works always throw out these annoying “come on it’s just 1 line of code”, “don’t be lazy it’s just 3 lines of code” statements.

would you tell a surgeon “come on, it’s just a few clogged aortas, fix that kitten heart”?

would you tell an airplane mechanic “come on, it’s only few bolts and some gears, why aren’t you done already??”

OP’s attitude is a slap in the face to all developers and I’m beyond sick of seeing that type of ignorance on here.

I’m sure it wouldn’t have happen in this case… I mean, if Anet didn’t slap everyone who bought the game in the face with every promise they made.
That topped with terribly slow production time…

Not good.
Not good at all.

NevirSayDie.6235:

But the game the devs designed is also very fun and has a lot of potential

The game had millions buy it.
Now with ques synced through all NA its getting 10+ min wait times, if you’re not thrown in a match with the same people.
The population probably went down after PAX.

It’s not impossible to like GW2, but it is far from common.
The devs need to change, in person or methodology, if ever is to be fixed.

Evan Lesh.3295:

An example would be a completely reworked reward system. Those are the things we’re working on. It’s taking a lot of time and hard work to get there, but the payoff will be worth it.

I get it, its not slap together simple… but you’re in a company.
You guys work 40~ hour weeks.
It shouldn’t take a year for a team of devs to finally get around to starting to work on a real rewards system…

Something in the cogs of GW2 PvP is broken… and people are really curious as to what.

Rewards systems are the foundation of any F2P/B2P game, its where the companies tend to make their money… its usually always the first thing thought up and the most polished…
GW2’s is next to non-existant and you even hired on a real world economist to help…
Seriously, what is wrong with the game?
Why is there a hitch in literally everything you guys do???

It’s a badly made game.
Every single one of the devs intentions about how GW2 was going to play, flopped.
They wanted it to be a latancy friendly game.
They wanted it to be very counterplay based.
They wanted it to stay away from insta-gibs from burst.
They wanted it to involve teamwork.
They wanted the map to be deep.

Yes the devs are passionate.
No that, tragically, doesn’t mean they are good at being devs.

JonathanSharp.7094:

We are working on new game modes. As we get closer to being ready to talk about them more, we’ll give you guys more details!

Oh god.
You guys aren’t even close???
When you guys were close to making leader boards… it took like 4~ more months…
And you aren’t even close…

klasd;sdlhasld;glshlasdhgsl;ah;sdlahsdgf

Words seem to be just smoke in the wind at this point.

Conditions shouldn’t have had a dmg stat to begin with.
How available they were should have been entirely dependent on weapons, utilities and traits…

It’d lean more towards split condi builds, and then, with a few tweaks to conditions to make them more ‘short duration debuff’ focused and yweaks to physical dmg stats so they don’t scale SUPER well together, (atm you need high power and to crit allot to deal viable physical dmg, if crits gave a static amount of bonus dmg, that would change) the game would have been soooo much better.

I think…
Even the head honchos gave up on the game, so decided to cut funding again.
PAX was a massive flop, the TPvP population propably dropped after it!!! They paid money for advertising, and all it did was make less people want to play!
That is a bad.
That is EXTREMELY bad.

Like, if I was a boss, I would fire people.

Julius.1094:

Too much dodging

Anti condi stacking and healing

2- Healing scaling for primary heal is too low by default, the base should be 2, not 1…

Ehh, dodging should just be tweaked to be more counterplay related.
They should show how much energy people have left underneath health.
Easiest way, it’d be like counterplaying mana in a MOBA.

Endurance regen can stay roughly the same, but mos importantly, bonus endurance regen should be VERY situational/active proc based.
Same thing with protection.

Anyways, weakness would stay as, like, -(1/2) or -(2/3) end regen, but for, again, short durations (typically 2-4s~).

On weapon evades… honestly, I’m not a fan, if it ate up an extra resource (like energy in GW1) making an attack get a bonus property, like evade, then I think it’d be fine… but just straight up on weapon evades… im in favor of just tossing them, maybe have them give you protection during the time, or 1/2 incoming dmg.

That seems like the best direction to go with dodging, at least imo.

Conditions shouldn’t be an easily achieved main source of dmg, plain and simple.
They should get pushed back towards debuffs and occasional, if a class has enough of them at hand with a very dedicated spec, they can manage to base most of their dmg around them…
That’d mean condition dmg wouldn’t be based so much on a stat, as your weapons/utilities/traits.

Immobilize shouldn’t stop dodge rolling.
Stats should push for more of a split between power/condi builds.
And again, condis should be focused around debuff, not so heavily dmg.

Condition removal…
The current system is just kitten.
I can’t see it being salvaged short of massive overhaul.

Healing.
As a stat.. it should be tossed.
Anet set it up kittening horribly.
It should have been the ‘anti-condi’ stat, conditions are sustain based, it’d be a way to keep up through their sustain, BUT Anet decided it should be soooo niche that only a few specs in a class or two can actually make any use of it.
Terrible.
Terrible.
Terrible.
Design.
Just scrap it.

Julius.1094:

Reduce hard counters
1- Increase duration of Berseker stance to 12 sec base and make the engineer’s Automated Response trigger at 33% health BUT make them reduce condi duration on you by 50%, not 100%. It should be a defense against condi not completely neutralize certain builds entire offensive ability with their current fairly high uptime. Specially if other anti condi measures previously listed were implemented.

If you want the game to be active defense based…
Make it that 50% less duration~
BUT
Make it last 4~ seconds… put it on a 20~s CD.
It is now an active defense based mechanism… use it when you see a condi spike incoming… it won’t help after they are applied, but is a good active defense against them.

Automated Response…
It’s just a badly made trait.

Chain CC.
One of the things GW1, rumor has it, did fantastically is interrupts.
I have no idea why GW2 isn’t interrupt based.
It’s just stupid.

style.6173:

Wow. Majorly disappointing. Less runes = less customization. Here is how I see things playing out… PvP is becoming the entry level introduction to combat. For full scale, people are being directed to WvW.

If you seriously think runes are giving large amounts of customization atm…
Ugh.
There can be a million runes, and sure that will give more ‘options’ when making a build… but if they are made like kitten, if they are balanced like kitten, then those options are nothing but an illusion.

You will end with a less real options, far worse gameplay, than 5-10~ very well made and well balanced rune sets.
Without any doubt.

Right now, runes are made like kitten.
If by cutting down the number of runes, they can tweak runes to truly help shape builds… to add depth to builds… instead of being terribly balanced, mainly passive dmg buffs pre-defined to certain setups… runes will be leaps and bounds better off.

Those are god-awefully high expectations for Anet though.
To the point where… I want them to just throw in a million runes… through that chaos, they are bound to accidentally do something right.

Knote.2904:

Woah, why are they removing them?

Why not rework them to be useful and have more options?

I’m fine with remove… if it means they will end up reworking whats left.
Right now runes fill a very useless role… they tend to just be passive dmg buffs or some abuse of Lyssa or ‘remove condi on shout’…

No one cares about passive dmg buffs.
They don’t make the game more fun to play.
No matter how many ‘options’ runes give you, if they usually always end up filling the same ‘more passive dmg’ role…
They don’t add depth in any way, shape or form.

Runes need a large rework, and cutting down ‘how many’ is not a bad first step.

Thieves will always be broken if Anet just tweaks numbers.
They have to do something fancy to get a working class, like, make every attack on the thief work like flanking strike.
That’d mean that all the theif weapon attacks would initially cost no initiative, then, when you use it, it goes to a secondary attack (like larcenist strike) for some time (7-20s depending on the ability) that attack costs 4~ initiative… it’d be a psuedo CD system.
You can shorten/avoid CDs by burning initiative.

To balance it out they’d have to cut down ini regen on a number of traits, so if you want to spam abilities you have to really sacrifice large part of your spec.
Then the class would be be in a great spot.

If they ten fixed the phys stat scaling so it isn’t a burst dps’s game… I think GW2 would be playable again.

Blackjack.5621:

I wonder if devs want ele´s to be a burster or a sustained class

The devs wanted GW2 to not be a burst based game.
They wanted the thief to be a tricky non-assassin class.
That was before they actually made the game.

Moral of the story… Anet has no idea, they are just going with the flow.

dejay.2598:

- check back in 5 hours
- repeat process
- don’t bother for a few days

That’s the depressing part, even if you like how GW2 plays… which is rare…. they have the kittentiest match-joining setup I have EVER seen…
The MMR is and has always been terrible.
‘Tournament’ ques are the hotjoin of any other game, because SPvP is garbage…
It’s kittened.
There is nothing between trash SPvP and ranked gameplay…

Then they kittening made group que to fix problems that group que only makes worse….
They couldn’t get a good enough MMR system for the small population to make ‘one que’ work. Splitting solo and ‘any group’ just causes the populations in each que to be smaller… and so the MMR system to be more obvious in how flawed it is… and to boot, now, you can’t que with friends without a good chance of fighting hardcore premades…

jmatb.6307:

I’m interested and skeptical on amulets…

If he said ‘tweaking existing amulets’ I would have been interested.
Straight up making new ones… won’t fix a kitten thing.

Raijinn.9065:

They also said they wouldn’t play wackamole with balance……..LOL

if you want to go into random promises…
Anet promised that the game wasn’t going ot be spike dps based.
Right before beta.

They promised it was going to be latency friendly and the thief wasn’t going to play anything like assassins from other games…. because insta-gibs weren’t fun…

HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Jumper.9482:

So I ask you, at what point and why did GW2 turn astray from the fun, skillful gameplay in which we all envisioned?

As soon as the devs realized they were making fun engaging gameplay.

A visions for a game is subjective, but some people’s are just plain old crap.

Divinity.8041:

Guys need to stop hating on games with clearly better PVP and a larger player base just because you think this game is better.

Better than trash doesn’t mean anything.
WoW is bad PvP regardless of how GW2 is doing.

Bad fix.

The issue you are attempting to solve with that isn’t at all related.
Games have gotten by with much worse balance than GW2.
More balance isn’t at all necessary.

Better gameplay on the other hand… tweaking what runes/traits/heal skills/maps/weapons/utils actually do to make a more enjoyable game…
That’s going somewhere.
When people start enjoying the game again, they won’t be crying for all these bullkitten fixes.

Lighter.5631:

garethh.3518:

Writetyper.1985:

He was also discussing giving a leap finisher and short backwards dodge on thief pistol 2 so that pistol/pistol has an escape mechanism.

Genius.
Just what thieves need.
Another spammable evade.

It’s like, got a problem to solve?
Just give it spammable evades or stealth or overwhelming passives… all fixed.
kittening devs.

pp thieves doesn’t have much to do with evades, just saying.

Nothing should have much to do with evades….
Dodge rolling and ‘evading’ shouldnt make you immune to dmg.. you can just move out of attacks through the movement.
Like you’d be dodging an attack… by actually dodging it… not becoming kittening immune to dmg.

It seems like that’s what the devs originally intended, just had to cut it short because of time/funding constraints, which was a major blow to GW2.
Turning what would have made next to everything into a skillshot… into just point-click-immune sort of gameplay…
kittening disaster.

The devs don’t even seem like their trying to recover any lost potential.

Anyways, ‘fixing’ p/p thieves by making them just like d/p… is kittened.
d/p stealth spam should be fixed… not other things ‘fixed’ to be like it.
Plain and simple.
The devs are just showing again and again why they shouldn’t be devs.

@Devs

Balance won’t make a bad game good, only a good game better.
Focus on making the game more engaging to play and you might actually get somewhere devs.

PvP MMOs are never balanced… GW2 is more balanced than most tend to be… yet others still have had decently large populations playing them…
Why?
The gameplay was well made.
GW2’s isn’t.
Fix the problem, not a problem.
L2Dev.

Writetyper.1985:

He was also discussing giving a leap finisher and short backwards dodge on thief pistol 2 so that pistol/pistol has an escape mechanism.

Genius.
Just what thieves need.
Another spammable evade.

It’s like, got a problem to solve?
Just give it spammable evades or stealth or overwhelming passives… all fixed.
kittening devs.

Balance won’t make a bad game good, only a good game better.
Focus on making the game more engaging to play and you might actually get somewhere devs.

Serdoc.7261:

But hay, you don’t have to believe me I just don’t want people getting their hopes up when it comes to balance.

I don’t think anyone does that anymore.

If you have kept your hopes up through all of the past patches, every single terrible one, I doubt one more setback will bring them down.

To be fair…
SPvP is crap PvP…
Leaving tournies to basically fill the ‘que and play’ mode of every other game.

It’s not surprising rank 1s end up in there.
What is, is that the MMR is so bad that it can’t stick rank 1s with other newbies.

I’m on the fence about the recourse thing.
Sure if Anet had more resources, there would be far more bug fixes and tweaks to classes… and yeah that would be “an improvement” but that won’t make GW2 a good game.
It’d be more polished… but polish isn’t fun.
So far the devs have done jack kitten to make anything, any class, any utility, any weapon more deep/engaging/fun…
They have stuck to balance and balance alone, as if the key to the entire ‘why we flopped’ problem lies in its hands.

Xeph.4513:

I understand how a lot of you feel, but Chaos and flaming will not solve anything,

It depends where you see the problem.
If you only look at the game, well then yeah, its entirely irrelevant.
If you take into account the people making the game… well flaming could have an effect that could be positive in the long run.

People being flamed tend to feel shuned, shuned people tend to lose interest in what they are shuned about, losing interest is a loss of engagement, and that can lead to changes in staff…
New minds just might have what it takes to not spiral GW2 downhill.

Strictly hypotheticals here.

WERE THERE MAN!
After all these crazy un-understandable changes by the devs… with everyone thinking the game was going downhill…
BAM
Full circle, hit so low they broke the scale and somehow looped up to the top.

Hold your breath and grind GW2 like there’s no time left, I’m sure that million dollar tourny is right around the corner.