Guild Wars 2

Swagg.9236:

garethh.3518:

The only change is a ‘visual trigger’.
Anyone who has played the game for a few months and is decently aware, knows exactly how fast endurance regens so can pretty much assuredly tell when someone is low->out.

The only difference is complication.
No depth is involved.
At all.

you’re simply encouraging more spammy metagame instead of a thoughtful use of skills.

Ugh…
None of that makes sense…
Yes dodge rolling relates to using abilities.
No being more aware of endurance won’t make people more spammy…
Think.
Think about it.

If anything it’d make people hold on to their abilities more since they know when people can dodge or not…
That’s the exact opposite.
If anything it would mildly pull the game away from hard CC->spike (since more play is focused around endurance) which is good.

The only notable effect it seemingly would have is that you wouldn’t get an extra foot up on newer players…
Newer players who don’t know all the ins and outs of the invisble dodge counting system (with vigor/hidden regen)…
I mean, an advantage in addition to the ones you get from knowing all the terrible animations in this game and the numerous passives, the hidden utilities and experience in the fights coated in particle effects and in petting zoos…

Dumbing it down means that it’s majorly hurting depth.

There is very little depth in evade counting, only experience.
Evade counting is just something you pick up by playing the game for so long, getting down a timer of roughly 5->10s and knowing about vigor…
Can you choose when and how to counterplay endurance regen…
No.

There is no depth in this.
Only complication.

GW2 is already loaded, like kittening god-dang loaded with things that give complications along with little if any depth.
More complications (like this), to begin with, aren’t good, they are best kept at a minimum… and it’s not in GW2…

Swagg.9236:

Don’t blow your entire rotation when you first see your enemy, or immobilize them first. The combat in this game is already too fast as it is in many cases, we don’t need an actual visual trigger to tell people to FIRE EVERYTHING.

The only change is a ‘visual trigger’.
Anyone who has played the game for a few months and is decently aware, knows exactly how fast endurance regens so can pretty much assuredly tell when someone is low->out.

The only difference is complication.
No depth is involved.
At all.

cymerdown.4103:

It’s actually a bit rediculous considering how good the pvp gameplay is in this game compared to any other MMO. I guess the balance and conquest game mode really drove everyone off (although I personally do like conquest). Lack of progression and rewards probably had something to do with it as well.

Conquest.
Conditions.
Straight-up-bad match que setup.
Early Beta game thrown out on the market.

GW2 was an attempt at being ‘revolutionary’ without the timescale or personnel needed to pull it off.
Floppity.

So much potential still if they just sell off the game to some other company…
I doubt they’ll do it so sayonara to the GW series…
Hope some companies see the potential in all this mess though.

Zinwrath.2049:

garethh.3518:

I would rather a larger base switch before going into all these details, they are nicely written fixes for the details though, don’t get me wrong.

GW2 is balanced around extremes, you either need high power a good source of crit chance along with crit dmg (to deal viable physical dmg), if you can’t, since physical dmg stats scale so much off of each other, you will deal negiligble physical dmg and be forced into bunker or condi/half-bunk…

That is crippling GW2, the build diversity blows, no matter where the meta is, high phys dmg (scrubs hate dying in a blink of an eye), condi (everyone hates being helpless and losing to players that are waaaay worse than them) or bunk (plz god no) many people are going to be annoyed….

That’s a core issue in GW2 and won’t change with minor tweaks to balance.
If stats scaled differently, like crit dmg was bonus dmg based off of the base ability dmg (barely if at all scaling with power), then more middle of the line power specs would open up, more power/condi specs would open up, the meta would explode…

What would be great is that then the game could then move over a large chunk of the condi dmg over to physical (high dmg specs that use conditions would be dealing that high dmg partly through physical dmg since phys dmg already has good play/counter play) that would also let condi dmg better fits the cleansing in the game (a nice perc but not god-kitten necessary to stack as much as possible).

That’s the only way I see GW2 surviving after new MMOs are released…
It’s the only step I can see to allowing this shenanigans to begin to play like a real AAA MMO.

Before the game came out I suggested this suspicion that the game would suffer due to the amount of stats one could chug into one area, forcing the glass cannon or immovable object specs being the most viable ones. But much like 90% of good comments in their early beta they ignored them…… ironicly changes people made back then, they’re just NOW starting to do….guess it took the game losing 100,000+ active pvp players for them to acknowledge they werent perfect and their community wasn’t stupid. Not to sound cynical but it is what it is.

If find it kind of commical that feadback like that around beta was largely brushed off as ‘haters gonna hate’ and pessimistic entitled QQ’ers.

So much potential, if only the devs actually stepped up and reached for it.

ShadowAce.5432:

Most people who are raging about the new matchmaking system I find are the players who’ve always been teamed up with the high ranks.

Or they’re people who realized that this was never the problem.
Leaderboard resets will never solve anything.

Low population, bad matchmaking in a mediocre anti-social game filled with 4v5s …
That breaks a game.
Leaderboards don’t mean kitten.

Relentless.7023:

The extremely negative community hurts that effort a lot. Also nobody plays on NA, which is weird because it’s very active in PvE and WvW.

You’d have to make it appealing for the PvE and WvW players to do PvP, which means rewards and game modes they want to play.

I don’t really care how anybody takes this, but Conquest is way over the heads of most people. They just don’t get it, which is sad, but Anet made the game too top level for the majority of boom headshot kittens.

Uhm.
You do realize LoL is basically the definition of a game that is ’ too top level for the majority of boom headshot kittens’…
Yet it is the biggest esport out there…

GW2 just made a bad game.
Of course the community is going to be negative… they expected a good, enjoyable competitive game (like GW1 could deliver) not something far worse in every way…

GW2…
It’s complicated and lacking in entertainment.
It’s complicated and not even deep…

It has like nothing good going for it, at best it’s a casuals SPvP/zergers game and its not even decent at that.

Dinster.7063:

I see only 2 ways to solve this problem:
a) player’s donations towards eSports
b) changing attitude towards eSports.
You wanna donate? Fine. Personally, i dont see any point in this.

Money won’t make bad PvP (to play and watch) worth, well, playing and watching.
The whole esports deal is to turn the game into a kind of TV show.

GW2 will never, ever, ever (short of a ‘fire everyone, hire new people’ miracle) get the fanbase watching to make that remotely worthwhile.
Sure Anet can chuck money at people for winning tournies… and a number of people will sign up… but as soon as Anet realizes they are getting jack kitten back, the game will flop and die harder than before (since now they are completely broke, along with being bad devs)

GW2 devs can’t make good PvP.
It’s came and gone, a year went by and the game only got worse to play and even less competitive.

Dardamaniac.1295:

Actually this ^

There was a time, few months before pax that balance was actually pretty good. Warriors were a little underpower but not totally weak..There were a lot of competitive teams and pretty much a lot of stuff going on….
I believe that the downfall started at the dhuumfire patch..They made huge mistakes in that patch..

The game was only running on hope at that point.
Legitimate esports teams left month~ before doomfire.
Large chunks of the playerbase were falling off, since conquest/exc. blew.

The meta wasn’t terrible, but the way GW2 was setup… no teamwork short of shouting who is where in vent… you had to struggle to get any social gameplay…
(SPvP forced you to not play with friends, the only alternative is to Q as a team in TPvP… I’ve seen so many groups of friends, rank 1-10 get roflestomped left and right since Anet made ‘premades’ get a large MMR boost)

People QQ when a game is unbalanced, people only ever leave when they are bored.
Friends make things not boring.

The game really had/has nothing good going for it.
The ‘flow of combat’ is nice… but utterly slaughtered by badly made skills, terrible particle effects and near instant or unstoppable CC/imob/high-dmg attacks.

Even without doomfire, the game wasn’t improving, the game was teeming with issues that Anet couldn’t fix… that would(and is in the process of) driving everyone away.

Fernling.1729:

I don’t see it ever becoming popular enough.

popular enough…
no, no, no.
popular again.

These guys lost like the vast vast majority of their playerbase and slow badly made patch after slow badly made patch shot down any chance more than a handfull will come back (if some miracle happens and Anet starts pulling their kitten together).

mini.6018:

Dude.purging flame has lower cd than zerker atance, cleanse aoe conditions, is an aoe burning amd combo field.Zerker does none of tjose and you want iy to only reduce condi duratoon wich is only 25% of what purging flames does and still keep it on high cd?..To reduce condi duration to 50% zerker stance ahouod be reverted to post patch cooldown aka 25 30 seconds you must be trolling at45 50 sec cd.

No one wants to make it useless.
Everyone hates 100% immunity.

The CD can be dropped to kittening 15s for all I care… as long as the %duration reduction and duration are reasonable…

If it was a 15~s CD : 4 to 5s duration : 50% condi duration reduction… I would say its wonderful, very active defense based and can combo well with the %imob/crip/chill reductions and whatnot.
If it was 30~s CD 6~s 70~% condi reduction… I would say its less wonderful but still workable.

I would rather a larger base switch before going into all these details, they are nicely written fixes for the details though, don’t get me wrong.

GW2 is balanced around extremes, you either need high power a good source of crit chance along with crit dmg (to deal viable physical dmg), if you can’t, since physical dmg stats scale so much off of each other, you will deal negiligble physical dmg and be forced into bunker or condi/half-bunk…

That is crippling GW2, the build diversity blows, no matter where the meta is, high phys dmg (scrubs hate dying in a blink of an eye), condi (everyone hates being helpless and losing to players that are waaaay worse than them) or bunk (plz god no) many people are going to be annoyed….

That’s a core issue in GW2 and won’t change with minor tweaks to balance.
If stats scaled differently, like crit dmg was bonus dmg based off of the base ability dmg (barely if at all scaling with power), then more middle of the line power specs would open up, more power/condi specs would open up, the meta would explode…

What would be great is that then the game could then move over a large chunk of the condi dmg over to physical (high dmg specs that use conditions would be dealing that high dmg partly through physical dmg since phys dmg already has good play/counter play) that would also let condi dmg better fits the cleansing in the game (a nice perc but not god-kitten necessary to stack as much as possible).

That’s the only way I see GW2 surviving after new MMOs are released…
It’s the only step I can see to allowing this shenanigans to begin to play like a real AAA MMO.

Junkpile.7439:

Pro tip is to spam skills even if you use power build. You do much more damage this way.

90% of the time… no.
Certain skills, sure, you want to use right around CD, but that is far from the vast majority.

You might get away spam on a S/D thief or shatter or phantasm mes, but not on most phys dmg specs… at least if your fighting decent enemies (against scrubs, yeah spam will get you by).

Adris.1859:

Trigr.6481:

I’m not going to hold my breath. I’ve been burned too much in this game by being too optimistic.

Great quote from another topic. Its hard to be excited and belive that something significant will actualy happen.

You know… when next to everything Anet has done didn’t really help the game, if not make it worse…

Kinda tough to imagine them not only not constantly kittening up, but doing so at a reasonable pace, so GW2 is more than playable by the time the next stream of MMOs start getting released.

Kinda sad, these guys had the best shot I’ve ever seen to deliver a kick-kitten groundbreaking MMO. But they seem to be excedingly wet behind the ears….

Even their attempt at ‘collaborative developement’ is a joke… like its just a stream of people spewing ideas with Anet occasionally saying ‘we tried that and did not like it’ or ‘thats on our list of things were working on’….
What.
The.
kitten.

The point of collaborative developement is to work out the kinks in your designs…. the point is to make sure the content is actually something players need to enjoy the game, and not only does just posting rough patchnotes beforehand with minor revisions based on QQ not do that… it hurts the game…
They should have kittening just put up threads like ‘focusing on making other ele traitlines viable’ then in the thread actually discuss pro’s and cons along with the players…

That is collaborative developement… not ‘hey look this is what we are going to do…. you might be able to make minor tweaks if you QQ allot’… that just ends with biased BS where people are wailing about keeping their spec viable not improving GW2.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

guild wars 2 is a team game.

asdfasdasdfafsdasfd
GW2 is actually the least social MMO ever made.

And you have to remember… game’s are made for engaging gameplay…
Fighting bunker specs you pretty much cannot ever kill no matter how much better you are… in a game widely based around 1v1s…
That’s bad.
That’s really bad.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I think you misunderstood, I was looking for a rationale forged with reason and logic, not one based upon invalid premises and faulty conclusions.

You seem to be at ease bandying about far flung phrases… but do you actually know what you’re saying?

So, the end goal of every and any tweak to a game is not ‘more engaging gameplay’?
And it doesn’t make sense that something that lessens something that is hurting the game… well, that gives help.

Sure you have to take in the downsides of it too (spike dps with lyssa, the extra boons tend to give them a pretty safe few seconds of spike/burst) but that is an extremely minor issue compared to the one badly setup cleansing makes of conditions…
Lyssa shores it up a lil… easily a wash if not net gain.

counter it out…
with more passive play

Thedenofsin.7340:

Is ArenaNet listening? Do they have an opinion?
If they believe it’s imbalanced, do they have a plan on fixing it?
If they believe it’s balanced, I’d like to understand their rationale, because I cannot come up with one.

garethh.3518:

The question is never about ‘OP’, its whether or not the thing is hurting gameplay.

GW2 condi’s hurt gameplay… Lyssa staves off condis… Lyssa helps gameplay.
QED

unleashed.8679:

Condition damage is a common damage type in several games.

And?
Because some games did a vaguely comparable thing well… what??

GW2 condi’s are setup ENTIRELY different than other games.
They have their own dmg stat.
There is no dmg mitigation for them.
They force hardcounters, and require hardcounters alone to mitigate (cleansing).
They leave no control over which condi is removed with condi removal.
They can and are encouraged to be the only source of dmg on a spec.
They are easier to apply, on lower CDs and deal more dmg (albeit not in an instant) than physical attacks.

That’s not unworkable.
But it is VERY, VERY, VERY tough to make work well.
Anet hasn’t shown a lick of the capabilities needed to pull it off

Something large has to happen for how people look at this game to change.
New MMOs are right around the corner and GW2 PvP has lost all competitive fans and has a small casual playerbase, it’s not fallowing the ‘Leauge of Legends we will get there eventually’ model… LoL was constantly improving, in most people’s eyes GW2 has only gotten worse.

I get it, you guys want to be careful about balance…
So be careful about balance but creative about improving gameplay…

Focus on redoing frustrating abilities to be more fun, taking annoying concepts (offpoint-holding, condis, exc.) and reworking them to be more entertaining to play with/against…

There isn’t much room for the game to fall further (no offense) and there are new MMOs right around the corner that are going to sweep up the rest of the PvP population if nothing large happens…

Zenith.7301:

Um……

15000-16000 average health with water traitline.

10% is 1500-1600 damage. Your minions will do that much in less than 2 secs.

It’s a useless trait. No ele will take it. An ele still needs 20 in water and 20 in arcana at the very least, not leaving enough for diamond skin.

It’s useless where it’s not OP.
Anything but a 1v1 against a condi reliant enemy leaves it forgotten…

But in many of those 1v1, to no end, it’s skill-lessly OP.

All bad.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I agree with the OP: diamond skin is the poster boy for one of the major problems with the PvP in this game.

The devs?
Not to sound heartless, I really want to see this game succeed, just the devs… they have no kittening idea what good gameplay is…

It’s like the more they try to get it, the further they end up from it…

Viking Jorun.5413:

Are we anywhere closer to true balance

Flipping a coin is the most balanced thing in the world but it is boring as kitten.
True balance means jack kitten.

LoL is the biggest Esport out there.
Like 60% of the toons never see play in tournies.

All that matters and has ever mattered is engaging gameplay…
Anet has no idea what that is and is manhandling this game so hard…
so GW2 is boned.

Like inescapably and utterly.

JETWING.2759:

Lissa isn’t OP

The question is never about ‘OP’, its whether or not the thing is hurting gameplay.

GW2 condi’s hurt gameplay… Lyssa staves off condis… Lyssa helps gameplay.
QED

Chicago Jack.5647:

garethh.3518:

lyssa, shadowstep possibly shodow’s embrace and/or hide in shadows.
A kitten ton of condi removal if used well.

No. Just no. There is a reason why we do not see this junk in sPvP as a backstab thief.

How to fight a Thief

??
??

You linked a fight where the guy was using quite literally all of the stuff I listed.

what… how is that… ?
I’m so confused.

unleashed.8679:

So if there is a huge amount of conditions on you a power build would probably have killed you already.

Conditions and physical specs tend to function entirely differently…
Just saying ‘hey you got condis, well your lucky it wasnt a glass warrior using eviscerate…’
That doesn’t work.

Condi’s are setup like kitten and it’s a very frustrating issue for many….

Chicago Jack.5647:

That is only true in builds that do absolutely nothing else other than backstab. Literally, builds who run 2 to 3 signets on their utility bar and blow them before each spike. To the point where, the only thing you need to do to stop it, is put pressure on the thief. Those builds have no condi clear, limited escape options, and fragile as hell. Otherwise, a typical backstab hits for 5.8 to 7.5k depending on the armor level.

lyssa, shadowstep possibly shodow’s embrace and/or hide in shadows.
A kitten ton of condi removal if used well.

RaynStargaze.6510:

Overall if there really is an issue with a certain skill being too strong it should be looked at individually and not as kitten kitten conditions op nerf plx

You expect Anet… to improve quality on that large of a scale?
lol.
Anet can’t even improve quality on a small scale.
The vast majority of the abilities they have kittened with only ended up making the game play worse…
Wanting them to just ‘improve quality’ isnt possible, they can’t…

short of allot of pessimism…
Well defined specifics and an overhaul of how Anet functions.
GG.

Amaterasu.6280:

Not sure what “free teleports” mean, but mesmers have a blink as well. Also staff #2, a “free teleport.”

On an low dmg 2-handed condi weapon.
(issue:thief sword isn’t any of those)

Amaterasu.6280:

Mesmers have stealth, especially condi mesmers who play with torch offhand.

Next to no dmg/low clone summon off-hand condi weapon in a class that relies pretty heavily on phantasms/clones for dmg.
Hint, thieves don’t need that sacrifice for better stealth.

Amaterasu.6280:

A condi torch mesmer can maintain just as much stealth as a thief all while being able to continuously put massive condi dmg on you via clones

You mean through confusion?
lololol.

With a squishy as kitten class, confusion works like crap unless its just a natural hard counter to the enemy.
I’m not saying condi mesmers suck, they can be good and annoying as kitten to fight, but they will never come close to getting the QQ thieves do.
They will never kill people in a few seconds flat with that build.

RaynStargaze.6510:

Ofc there is wtf? plenty of times – when opponent is dodgeing/avoiding when hes out of range? when you are in a 3v1 and shouldnt waste the cooldown?

missing pin down means no guaranteed F1 which is pretty kitten good as combo

Yeah.
And you could have accidently untargeting and turned around to face a wall while you were at it…

Yes you can miss any attack by throwing it at someone who is in the middle of a dodge roll or is invulnerable…
So think.
If everyone knows that, what could he possibly mean by ‘there isn’t a bad time for it’???

Hint, you might not have to take him entirely literally
(this is life, most people don’t say everything letter of the word literally and only fools expect otherwise)

RaynStargaze.6510:

You dont want to waste a long cooldown 10 second burn on a low health person! are you trolling? This part strikes me as particularly dumb.

In a min-maxing world, sure.
But most fights aren’t more than 1v1s or 2v2s or not close enough that it matters (condi CDs don’t tend to be all that long) so the leniency on just blindly spamming condis is VERY high.

I’d focus on making offensive conditions more secondary.
They sooo fit the role with how weapons and physical dmg and condi removal and conditions are setup…
I honestly have no idea why they aren’t.

Right now pysical dmg has tons of counterplay, moving more dmg over to physical on once pure condi dps builds would only increase their play/counterplay.
Right now condi’s, to get depth, need to be situational on when to use. They mostly aren’t.
Right now condi removal is sporadic, it’s setup as if builds didn’t NEED to have it to be viable.
Right now tons of skills are just useless depending on whether or not you stack condi dmg… that’s wasted potential.

With that in mind, condi fixes can only seem to go in one direction, global nerfs to condi dmg (buffs/tweaks to debuffing) along with tweaks to physical dmg or amulets to fit that (without making dps bunkers).
If you’re looking to fix condi’s I talked about the whole issue in general a bit ago
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Easy-solution-to-fix-the-meta/first

Glenstorm.4059:

Fix all the broken and useless traits we have right now first. Please.

You have to realize how Anet works.
When they try to sit down and work out the details of ‘fixing’ things they only end up making everything worse.
GW1 got worse as Anet got more and more involved in fixing the meta.
GW2 is Anet’s attempt at fixing GW1.

At best they can spam content and abilities, just by by playing the odds, they will make something good at some point.
They need to just scrap their entire playtesting devision and toss things into the game and base success on player reaction…
Weekly updates with notable changes where players largely steering where the game is going… that will bring back thousands of people.

Smiley.5376:

They realised they first have to adress balance issues and new game modes before releasing new skills and traits.

If the devs work like that
(no insult to Anet)
From what I’ve seen they can’t sit down with content and come up with great ways to make it more fun.

They can try to balance it, and it will usually end more balanced… but nearly never more fun.

Yasha.5963:

There are no pros, only downside.

This is exactly why no dev can take the forums seriously.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Cynz.9437:

as long as CC and condi spam exists, Lyssa is mandatory

if anything, they should do something about the reason why people run lyssa despite all other 5 bonuses being meh

That’s just bunk. The 4 piece bonus is as good as the 6 piece bonus on most other runes.

Secondly, how will you know the condi meta is balanced while Lyssa persists?

????
You fix the issue before fixing the fix to the issue…
Or else, I mean, you pull an Anet and just break the game more by doing something that should have helped…

They take like 2-3 months to see how ‘the meta plays out’… just nerfing lyssa without fixing the reason why so many builds need lyssa (state of condis; and many, high duration tough to avoid CCs) won’t do anything but make the game even more unplayable for an even longer time.

Lyssa is very niche, it really is only worth taking in a condi heavy meta…
If anything, it’ll die down in usage when condi/condi-removal starts balancing out better.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Is this really balanced? I see a lot of players running with it, and when they pop that elite, Lyssa acts like a mini-version of Endure Pain + Berserker Stance.

Wow, you just realized most of the runes in GW2 are useless???
Like next to any rune that is ever used is ‘OP’ compared to those ones….

If Anet didn’t make condi removal so god kitten necessary (and a pain in the kitten to geT) on builds it wouldn’t be such a big deal.

kaikalii.4198:

So, I had never played LoL before

Different game styles.
MOBAs are in general for serious players, the gameplay is insanely deep and strategic in next to every way.
MMOs are more PvP/PvE split so more casual.
Gameplay is entirely focused on combat, MMOs don’t have the luxury of gold or lanes to give depth… they focus entirely on making walking up to and hitting someone as engaging as it can be.

Anyways…
GW2 has its percs, but like a few dozen issues that completely overshadow them.

Phantom Master.9582:

garethh.3518:

…

I’m not being selfish here buddy, I’m just giving my 2 cents. Its Anet’s game and not mine, if they think its better for the game to have a normal Queue replace hotjoin then that will be their decision and NOT mine.

And I don’t quite understand why that would kill the game for casual players, Normal Queue wouldn’t be as serious… you’d just get a few more points if you win… just like hotjoin. You could play with your friends and just do w/e you want, you’d still have fun since there’s no rating (No one would really care as much, and for those who DO care alot about winning would be matched with other serious players, because of the hidden MMR). The only thing Hotjoin has more than normal Queue is 8v8 (They should just make maps better balanced for 8v8 and then allow you to Queue for 8v8).

So I take it you saw that I didn’t say you were right…. which I guess, you know, is basically, it’s pretty much the same thing as saying you are a selfish kitten who is going to kill the game for all casuals…
LOL

You should actually read my post.

Anyways…
This is GW2.
This is Anet’s game.
No kitten Sherlock…
That doesn’t mean your idea doesn’t have allot of room for improvement.
It doesn’t mean really anything…

Sorry to be so… blunt… but you aren’t making all that much sense…

Phantom Master.9582:

Hotjoin servers split the PvP community into a PvP that is not taken seriously…

The entire system is a plague and a stain on how PvP was mean’t to be played. I don’t see ANYTHING good about hotjoin, other than the fact its not taken seriously at all. (Which means it might as well not give glory at all.)

Work from the problem down, not straight to a solution or you’ll end up no better than Anet.

Many games have shenanigans modes.
Many games have a ‘split’ community, that’s good.
It means the game is broad enough that many different kinds of people can fall into its playstyles….

You have to realize, not everyone plays a game to be super serious…
Especially in MMOs.
Shenanigans attracts a fair number of players.

Your only issue with those people seems to be that they infest (lol) your ranked que… when you want to play the game seriously they are there kittening it up (a valid point).
But that’s entirely an issue with match setup, not MMR, not just ‘the existence of hotjoin’.

You seem to want that ‘cancer’ (lol) to just avoid you, which is fine, the issue then is that they need a place to occasionally go for Q based conquest matches, one that doesn’t touch your ranked matches.

Because of that…
Destroy hotjoin???
Force people to play GW2 your way or GTFO?

Right now players’ only choices of gameplay are ranked or super shenanigans…
Give a middle ground and people that aren’t super serious will go there instead of dealing with your ranked que.

That can happen with your que idea, but why kill hotjoin in the process?
Adding in an unranked-Q feature to the tourny NPC and make a rank 20~, or so many unranked-Q match, requirement to do ranked tournies(like every other game with ranked matches does) would seem to be enough to appease you… you know… without further beating up on players in a game with a depressingly small population…

You must be new here
It’s that way with literally every balance patch…

Dunno why.
No one does.

For some reason the devs just revel in working at a snails pace
(and laughably, they usually don’t even fix get a good fix to the problem after their months of deliberation)

Teutos.8620:

There seem to be a lot of confusion regarding the pvp rank and the breadboard position. I suggest to rename the pvp rank (those with rabbits and tigers) to pvp experience level.

You seem to forget that no one takes GW2 seriously anymore and every MMO has gotten by with experience based matchmaking.

Sure it’d be nice to have matches be always and forever super competitive for the super competitive… but that’s an ideal, welcome to reality.

Matches loosely based on experience alone won’t always be perfectly even, but they will generally end up even enough to create interesting matches.
GW2 has lost next to every super competitive player.
GW2 has the slowest pace of development I’ve ever seen.
GW2 has kittenty matchmaking.

Sure, devs can spend months and more months tweaking matchmaking to the point where people aren’t constantly complaining about it and that handful of competitive players are all happy…

But why???
A kittenty ‘slap together match based on rank’ matchmaking would shore up the issue with next to no effort on Anet’s part leaving plenty of time for them to work on actual issues…

@NevirSayDie.6235

Teamwork is abysmal in GW2.
Condi dmg does nothing for it.
People will NEVER complain about the existance of support/debuff related conditions
(maybe OP’ness of, but never existence)
They will only do that for dps condi’s.

The game is full of complications.
The game has little depth.

Conditions as a main dmg source, not necessary, but how Anet set it up, they give complications… with little depth…

They can be dropped with little if any harm to the game.
Sure more diversity of builds is good, sure having more things to watch out for can make gameplay more interesting…
But this is GW2 we are talking about, there are hundreds of kittened and minute animations we have to constantly stare at the screen to catch…

Having to stare at a condi bar at the same time does no one any favors.

Yes more build diversity is beneficial and more middle of the line builds should exist.
But the goal of that, the reason we want the middle of the line specs is to ultimately is improve gameplay…
Condi dps builds make the game play worse.

They play so terribly that they take a perc, a very large and simple perc, and turn it on its head.

Aim for fixes, not to cope with terrible concepts because somewhere in their mess of existance they have a perc or two.

Josh Davis.6015:

• We’re going to reduce the amount of dishonored stacks a player needs before they’re prevented from queuing for tournaments.

You’re talking about ranked matches.
Matches that losing has a penalty on, not just you, but the people on your team. Leave/Afk’ers are killing other people’s MMR, shoving them towards this games midden heap of an elo hell…

Scaling 5+ min wait no matter what.
If you que for a match with actual team wide consequences for losing, you show up.
or
You have to wait.
(the forced wait time should only count down while the player is in game, and the scaling 5, 10, 25 mins, only resets after 3~ days)

Through their negligance… those people are deliberately ruining the game for others.
That should be stopped.
(courtesy of 5, 10, 25+, 2 hour~ dishonor timers)

You guys try hard to be caring.
Get over the delusion that someone actually wants you to care about ranked match leavers and their ‘reasons’
No one wants that.
Move on.

LoL and, really, any MOBA didn’t get anywhere because they had super kind penalties for people who leave their FLAMING RANKED MATCHES.

Writetyper.1985:

Y’know I would agree but I’ve seen some horrible r40/50’s, and I’ve seen some really good r20’s who got a lot of PvP experience from playing WvW and then just had to learn how to play the maps. There are too many variables and assumptions to say for sure whether someone is good or bad based off rank.

Not… good or bad.
Competent.

Almost every MMO has managed with the ‘slap together in a day approach’ of just an incremented rank ques (0-10 together, 11-20, exc) and when you hit cap you are thrown into a general que of max ranked players.
Know why?
Everyone in the end que knew how the game is played.
They all had a decent idea of what should be done and what shouldn’t.
That’s enough for decent gaming to happen.

But that isn’t necessary, at this point, no one takes GW2 that seriously.

People just want somewhat consistently decent matches.
That means cutting out people who have no idea what they are doing from ranked que.
Those people are mainly inexperienced players.

Yuki.1765:

Today I played with some r40 teams (I’m 39), and they were noobs … Everyone had the same rank, but their skills and performances were horribly bad. I did my job, I defended close, because no one wanted to (sadness), and the other were … running arround?!

Rank is a show of experience, which isn’t entirely the same thing as skill.
Agreed.

But almost every MMO got by just fine with casual matchmaking being based off of experience and experience alone.
Not every match will be dead even, no one expects unrankedQs to be in ANY game, but most will be close enough to be interesting.

Yuki.1765:

Btw, if you want to be a casual, go Hotjoin.

Anyways, the issue of a messed up MMR system, there has to be a change to the que setup, for one, there HAS to be a base necessary rank to que for ranked play (or else random people with no idea how to play GW2 will keep joining it, screwing up MMR)
There has to be a change to what modes you can click to get a match or else Anet’s gonna keep wasting time trying to bandaid up a sinking ship.

Custom arenas are just terribly made.
Anet needed something to monetize PvP, and custom arenas, honestly, where a good place to choose to do it.

BUT.
Custom arenas don’t do anything.
They literally dont’ solve a single issue GW2 has had short of ‘a place to duel’…

When custom arenas were coming out, from what I saw….
People were ecstatic because they thought they could seriously tweak maps to make new gamemodes.
People were ecstatic because they thought they could get a way to create servers for certain skill level of players (casual maps, competitive, exc.) since Anet’s match setup is broken (not matchmaking).
People were exstatic because the game might lean towards being more social like custom servers are in other games….

But they did nothing.
No one wanted token SPvP servers they could rename (and eventually cut skyhammer from.)
No one will pay for that.
And so they failed and Anet wasted a few months of time…

No kitten.
Anet setup up the match system like crap.

Every other game has unrankedQ AND rankedQ…
You can’t join ranked until you are so high of a rank…
You can screw around in unranked to practice/warm-up without effecting your rank, you can learn the game in unranked better since your matched more based on experience than MMR, or you can even just play casually with friends (what a concept… a social MMO…)

Anet decided to toss that and make elo hell like 5 times worse.
Anet decided to make the vast majority of people who play their game get like 5 times worse matchmaking.
Anet decided to not allow people to play with friends short of ranked team tournies…

It’s kittening hilarious how bad that this coorporation is at making MMOs.
The game could have managed with a decent PvP population if they had some coordination and thought behind what they were doing.

The game is a mess balanced around extremes.
People seem to only be floundering around S/TPvP until a new MMO comes out.

If anyone wants that change, ask for Anet to buff or nerf the kitten out of random kitten, keep tossing out and around skills people QQ about for entirely new ones, idc, something large has to happen for how people look at this game to change.
There isn’t much room for the game to fall further so there’s nothing to lose from the attempt.

Justin ODell.9517:

This discussion is a pretty good example of why I’ve been suggesting we factor in play style and profile information into matchmaking as well.

Wouldn’t it be awesome if you could say how serious you were about competition and be matched accordingly? I want to make that happen.

No, please no.

At that point, just split the Qs.
You are effectively at that point splitting the Q, so legitimately do it and you’ll end with a much better result.
Makes casualQ (can que with any amount of players, based on rank alone) and rankedQ (must be over rank 20~, split into team or solo, MMR exc).

You can’t pile everything into a matchmaking algorithm…
It’s just going to become a ridiculous mess if it even works (I don’t have much faith in your coders, no offense)…

Splitting the ques into casual and ranked would do the exact same thing as making a togleable ‘competitive or not’, but allow people to play non-shenanigans 5v5s (SPvP) while testing out new specs, people could actually que casually with friends!! omg a social MMO what a great idea to boot it’d make the leaderboard workable at the same time (last post I did about ELO hell).

I know you guys are floundering for a PvP population so ‘splitting Qs again’ is probably taboo… but if you could convince them a competitive toggle is worthwhile… there are nearly only percs from that to splitting ques.

You do have to watch out for TPvP group que dieing though, since it is already at a very small population and most of those people that play it just want to que casually with friends (very few people take GW2 PvP very competitively, kind of a tragedy).
But even then, the game is sooo much more casual centric right now (so few people actually take TPvP seriously) and this will help casuals a ton…

(you guys have steadily been getting further and further from a social MMO, the thing that’s like a cornerstone to online gaming… friends make you not bored… people may talk of leaving because of bad gameplay but people only ever quit when they’re bored…)

Justin ODell.9517:

It sounds like Michael might be in what other games call “elo hell”. There isn’t much I can do to help, but he has a chance to escape once everyone’s MMR is reset.

I guess it can be compared to that MOBA term… but you HAVE to note that all the downsides of it (yes MOBAs do have the downsides I list) are a few if not dozen times worse in GW2.

The ELO hell in GW2 is much more massive for the small population since it’s overloaded with casuals.
The ELO hell in GW2 is much more spastic, since casuals tend to play however they want.
The ELO hell in GW2 puts no focus at all on comp, so people tend to end up playing whatever they want.
The ELO hell in GW2 isn’t even like playing ranked play at all since half the people are only just learning to play the game…

You guys are, laughably, trying to make a competitive PvP system that can’t work, work and claiming you’ve got it under control…
Yet a jokingly easy real fix is only a few weeks worth of coding away.

If you introduced SoloQ (tournies not tied to rank) and made tournies for rank 20~ or higher, the game would have been fine.
You could have had ‘working matchmaking’ most of a year ago.

Then you could have built towards allowing people to make a ‘pool’ of off specs they could switch between before a match starts, in general make the whole ‘before the match starts’ more geared towards working out a comp, not just afk’ing or buny hopping.

Sorry for the rage it’s just annoying to see devs gloss over issues, issues that are mostly negating their ‘fixes’, while acting like a ‘reset’ and few tweaks to matchmaking will make a broken system all well and good…

Pyroatheist.9031:

tichorum.2415:

Pyroatheist.9031:

You could go test it out yourself…

How do you “test” crit %? You can’t..

Get 50% crit chance, knock someone down. If it works, that’s 100% crit. Repeat it 15 times. If you crit every time, it works.

lololol.
Get lowest possible crit chance.
Knock someone down.
100-b.

If you get more than a crit, it worked.

Guard.6751:

Aside from the decay issue not being permanent.

They didn’t make the decay permanent???