Guild Wars 2

@ Prophet,

why? Why do we care if someone sells an item at or below vender price? If an item is worthless and there are 403493957 of that same item at vender price, why do we care what the owner of that items sells it for?

why should there be safe guards to stop people from selling below what the vender offers if they do not care about losing a little money just to clear their bags or can not do enough math to understand the posting + sales tax exists?

Put up a message that notifies a player about the posting fee and sales tax and allow them to sell the item for what ever they wish.

This is not a WoW type, play for 4 years straight, kind of game. This is a buy and play for a month, then come back every now and then when new content comes out kind of game.

bobzebrick.5309:

Our server is already dying, Ring of Fire EU has literally 5 people in cursed shore after about 2-3am, there were too many to count a week or so ago.

I think i need to bail to a high pop server before they start to charge for it _

I moved to a high pop server at the start of this week once I noticed…

1) My server was always on the butt end of WvW

2) I wanted a secure guild

3) Noticed people on my friends list not logging on

4) Did not want a repeat of TOR where I was forced to move to a new server just to get some action (may as well do it for free when you can test the servers first).

why? Really, ANet wants people to buy bag slots, what better way than to see a lot of nice 10-18 slot bags sitting on the TP for cheap!

Also, you do not need the bags once you are done with them, so sell them cheaply to another player or transfer them to an alt.

Sorry bags are not the money maker they were when the game first released, but really, if you want to make money there are many more ways than bags, which has a finite life even if the bags were bound.

Yeah, nice that they only opened it up to a small % of people.

Out of 2 accounts I was not one of them, but I noticed the same people were constantly selling mats or buying up mats faster than I know they could use.

I figured these people were able to take advantage of the TP trade system, but oh well

I did make about 20 gold the first day the TP opened because I stock piled mats and kept buying them up as I noticed people selling them for cheap. As soon as I gained access tot he TP I sold everything I could before the prices dropped.

full duelist with the engineer monocle (starter gear).

I played my engineer to level 78 and am sick of seeing trench coats and dresses. I just want something form fitting.

buy all the Abyss, Black, White, Celestial dyes you can.

Resell them when those dyes reach 50 gold each.

Because eventually you will want either more gems or more gold for the new items coming out.

Taikanaru.5746:

Pfft, this reminds me of Fable, where there were certain items that were being sold by the vendor for less than what you would get for selling them back to the vendor. I know I never had to think about money ever again.

That is the scenario that would happen if there were items being sold for less than what you would get for vendoring them. The overall economy not taken into account at all, this is already broken and an exploit because individuals would be raking in thousands of gold.

But the vender was selling those not other players.

If other players sell those items below vender price, there is no additional money being generated in game, just money exchanging hands.

Along with that, every time an item sells, there is an additional 10% money sink factored in, which is better than the person posting an item which will never sell, canceling the item and vendering that item themselves.

@ drguild

Prices have hit the floor because there is a surplus of items and no one is buying them.

Selling an item below vender price and having another player purchase said item does not generate any more money than if the player were to go straight to a vender and sell it directly.

On the contrary, by allowing a player sell an item below vender price on the TP, 15% of that sale is taken out of the economy permanently which is positive for the economy.

This is also more beneficial to the economy than a person using the TP as temporary storage as it charges 15% over the 5% listing fee.

I will say again, there is no additional money being generated by allowing players to sell items below vender price. Any money a buyer makes by selling an item to a vender is only money the seller would have made if they vendered the item.

AND a lot of people do not care if they lose an extra 1-20 copper if they sell an item and do not have to bother with canceling the sale later and vender it themselves (again doing so takes up inventory space).

If we really want to be concerned with everything people do, lets not allow people to Salvage an item that venders for more than the resources salvaging produces (99% of the items in game).

Lets not allow people to post items at +1 copper above vender price, because they are already going to lose more than that 1 copper due to the 15% charges.

Lets also not allow people to be in control of their own choices on how to play this game, because really, most of the game play in GW2 costs money and it would be better spent if everyone was parked in town playing the TP.

It should be a choice made by each individual player if they want to lose a little money to sell an item quickly for cash, not other players that want to “save” them from them selves.

known bug being fixed.

Maxster.4521:

Person A sets an item for 50 copper.

Person B sets an item for 49 copper.

Person C sets an item for 48 copper.

Person A resets their price free of charge to 47 copper.

Person B resets their price free of charge to 46 copper.

Person C resets their price free of charge to 45 copper.

Repeat this, not with 3 people but with 200 people all freely undercutting each other until the floor is met.

Now, with the current system we at least take out 5% of the posting fee as a money sink each time people do this. This also stops people from radically lowering their price every time someone posts below them because eventually they will completely lose any profit by constantly canceling sell orders and reposting them for 1 copper to beat out the person that just undercut them.

I thought this would be obvious but I guess I have to spell it out for some people. Allowing players to freely change their sell price will do nothing but net you less for each item and do away with a decent money sink.

In EvE, actually, there is small fixed fee on lowering sell order price. And 5 minutes timer for change(once in 5 minutes, you changed – wait for another 5 minutes). For GW2, it’s like 15 minutes or something.
Speculants will whine on those changes.

The fee is a requirement. The timer may help a little against 1-2 people in a war to try and undercut each other, but even they won’t undercut each other so much they lower the price to the floor.

A timer would be completely useless when 20-30 people are trying to undercut each other by 1 copper.

Maxster.4521:

Wazabi.1439:

Do you know reducing transaction cost makes speculation easier? How do you intend to address that?

And do you know how price is determined by supply/demand and all these undercutting is just white noise fluctuations? How does that affect the price in e long run?

Truth is, that current system encourages speculants and punishes crafters. So of course, speculants are happy, and not wanting to change that. Adding EvE trading system, with small fixed fee for lowing price, and 5 min timer on change(or 10 min) will help crafters. And, rises buy orders price, because it will be easier to sell without 5% loss on price change.

only because crafting does not really create superior items compared to drops. That is an itemization issue, not a TP issue.

Person A sets an item for 50 copper.

Person B sets an item for 49 copper.

Person C sets an item for 48 copper.

Person A resets their price free of charge to 47 copper.

Person B resets their price free of charge to 46 copper.

Person C resets their price free of charge to 45 copper.

Repeat this, not with 3 people but with 200 people all freely undercutting each other until the floor is met.

Now, with the current system we at least take out 5% of the posting fee as a money sink each time people do this. This also stops people from radically lowering their price every time someone posts below them because eventually they will completely lose any profit by constantly canceling sell orders and reposting them for 1 copper to beat out the person that just undercut them.

I thought this would be obvious but I guess I have to spell it out for some people. Allowing players to freely change their sell price will do nothing but net you less for each item and do away with a decent money sink.

It’s a money sink set up so people can not gain in short term.

Wazabi.1439:

Because he can’t compete. Maybe a participation medal?

Everyone gets those, even my very challenged nephew who really doesn’t really participate, unless by participating you mean taking off your shirt in the middle of the football game and running around the field yelling “MY LITTLE PONY!”

Freyar.3254:

Why should cutting by once copper be removed again?

Because he hates coming in second place

what’s the point of getting into WvW when ever you want if you will only get camped trying to leave your fort?

does the match up change soon? Late tonight (about 3-4 in the morning) I plan to go through the WvW maps and finish them up since few people will be playing.

I am not a PvPer yet (have not tried it) but I am trying to get 100% map on my main.

I decided to go ahead and try and get the WvW map done while I can do free transfers.

So what realm owns most of the current map?

I’m guessing with late late night play and pinging around 2-3 different realms I can get 100% of the WvW map before they start charging for it.

Maxster.4521:

Freyar.3254:

Why are you upset about being undercut? Why didn’t you set YOUR price to what you expected to be undercut by? Celestia, smite thy marketeers that abuse the privilege of setting their own price, for no one is allowed to do so so long as it inconveniences you.

There’s a reason why Wal-Mart reduces prices by an insignificant amount between one penny to twenty cents. Competition is everywhere, and you really just need to learn how to deal with it.

So, Wal-Mart is paying tax 5% of the set price every time they decide to lower price or list a new commodity?
I guess such comments come from those, who haven’t even tried trading on TP.

I buy and sell with such large numbers that canceling items and reposting them does little to my over all profit.

Yes, I may lose 5%-20%, but I sell so quickly by constantly undercutting I actually make more money by constantly moving inventory.

Freyar.3254:

Nisshoku.3479:

I think they should take a page from the Team Fortress school of thought and make keys trade-able and add exceptionally rare items that you can only get from chests like a unique armor skin, mini-pet, or versions of runes that give an awesome aesthetic effect when you have all of them equipped (Rune of Vampirism makes you look like a vampire, etc.)

No-no-no-NO!

The whole reason I have no problems with the current chest system is that keys aren’t tradeable (making an annoying market for them that tries to cheat you out of them at any chance you get) as well as ensuring that there’s no over-zealous expectation for a drop. I’ve opened many crates from Team Fortress 2 with nothing exceedingly stellar coming out of them. In the end, I feel cheated every time I see it taunt me with a “chance” at getting something extremely special.

Keep the Black Lion Chests as they are.

Hate to say it but it works.

In All Points Bulletin Reloaded they sell Joker Boxes. These drop a rare item only available in the box, usually a special gun that can be traded, sells for millions on the open market, and for the most part better than any other gun in that weapons category (but only by a tiny amount).

People buy boxes all the time. They spend 200-300 dollars trying to get that weapon because they either can’t control their gambling or can easily afford to waste money like that on their hobby. But it does not matter because the company is making money off customers willing and often times happy to spend it. This in turn gives all of us (well not for APB) more game development.

I personally do not like to gamble because I have horrible luck. I would rather spend 200 dollars on the item than gamble on it 1 dollar at a time.

If ANet put in a special armor skin only available in the BLCs, made that skin tradable, and made it extremely rare, their sales in keys would grow exponentially.

And considering we are only talking about skins and not items with stats, I’m perfectly fine with that. Especially given that keys are also given as mission rewards and rare drops.

An important feature for something like this is that the super rare item has to be tradable on the open market, that increases the items value as people will try and get the skins just to sell them.

My main wears medium armor and I agree.

I hate all the trench coats and fluffy hipped coats.

I like sleek looking outfits that are at least a little sexy.

same.

There are maybe 3 out of ALL the medium coats that are not a trench coat/poofy dress design. If I could use the pirate costume I would buy that in a heartbeat… just for the top.

Player mail is account wide. You can only have 10 of these so delete all your player sent e-mails.

Grimm Liberty.4206:

I am just saying the ‘Net Floor’ should be ABOVE what the VENDOR PRICE is…
and that is the NEEDED formula for that to happen.

why?

Port to Heart of Mists.

Check out the Glory Locker (no I’m not making that name up) and you can preview every set in the game. They are PvP sets you can collect, but I have also been told there are equal PvE sets (at least appearance wise).

Head to Lions Arch. Once through the portal you will see a line of 8 venders on that initial island. Those are dungeon armor venders. The first tab is normal looking sets, second is more expensive and dungeon specific looks.

That is all I know when it comes to viewing sets. Sadly I have not found a single medium set that really stirs me yet.

It would be nice if camera angle was based of a set point on all characters and not based on the characters height.

I have only played small characters so have not experienced anything close to what I would call a decent camera with GW2.

Nemain.9802:

I hate mesmers in pvp, I always end up chasing theirkittenclones. Unless they do something that gives them away.

can we mark players? Say, mark the mesmer so we know them from their clones?

lynspottery.6529:

In a conversation tonight with some guild mates I heard several folks indicate that they had gotten less than expected for their sales. They listed a price of specific items (+ the fee), although accepted at the time of placement, when they received their funds for those sales it was less than the listed price (- the fee) that was accepted at placement.

For and example: Joe placed an item on the market at 1-silver 5-copper with the understanding that the 5-copper was the fee for the listing. However, when the item sold he got less than the 1-silver (after fee taken out) than expected. He mentioned this had happened to several of his sales recently.

What I want to know is why is this happening? Is there a malfunction in the calculation on the market?

you do know there is a 10% tax taken out of the money made from the sale?

Or are you talking about more than the 5% and 10% tax?

I can not think of anything exploitative about a direct trade system except gold farmers.

If the trade system is built properly, then people can not get scammed using it.

But a direct trade system allows gold farmers to freely transfer gold between new and old accounts. With the restriction on using mail based on account status (character level, achievements, etc) I believe that is a huge concern for ANet.

So thank all the gold farmers for not having a direct trade system (and all the people purchasing gold from them).

I am not convinced that ANet is concerned with bypassing the money sink aspect of direct trades. We still have a free to use mail system in which we can mail money or items to any player if our account has enough status to access the mail function.

You will get undercut, just let the item sit for an afternoon and see if it sold. Check the market, if there are 5-10 people under selling you, take your item off the market and either wait for late night when things slow down and the market rises, or undercut them by a significant amount and force them to either buy you out or under cut you making them lose a larger profit margin that what the market will sustain.

BTW, I do this constantly and make about 2-3 gold an hour selling a lot of items with a slim profit margin (10-30%).

I can’t believe Orson Scott Card wrote that in 85. I hope you get a chance to read his other books dealing with that universe, they are very good.

As for the OPs question, sadly there are a lot of key options not available (like where is the Map remap key?). I hope it gets updated soon.

I hope it happens soon too

No, not that one, this one involved taking a spirit to it’s tree shell and fighting waves of Hylek.

But I think the first time I did it the mission was bugged because they Hylek never stopped coming (was there for over 30 minutes before I just gave up).

At that point I was posting items on the TP constantly at vender price because I had filled my 8 bag slots.

It is suppose to be multi use like any skin, a few people have reported a bug where they can only transmute the skin once though. Another player just posted that he is unable to put the skin on his PvP armor.

I have not read anything stating that it is PvE only but I have read from many people that they have used that skin multiple times on their armor.

I have been asking a lot of questions about the armor skin and no one has posted that it is PvE only.

Hopefully it is just a bug that will be fixed soon or a dev will post a definitive answer for you soon.

so lets ignore the fact that it takes out an additional 10% out of the economy and works as a money sink which is the whole reason it is more beneficial than just using the TP as a temporary storage facility (If there are 105093746934 of that same item on the TP for +1 copper, it will never sell for a reason).

That’s fine, at least you admit that your argument hinges on leaving out a major factor in mine because creating a money sink that is twice as effective is “extraneous”.

I had this happen once, but I closed the TP, reloaded it and my money showed up.

Someone sells an item for 30 copper on the TP when it’s vender value is 50 copper.

Yes, someone can then purchase the item for 30 copper and vender it for 50 copper, making a 20 copper profit.

You forgot to calculate the 15% tax the seller is charged. The seller does not make 30 copper, they in fact make 25.5 copper or 25 copper as it rounds down. This generated less money than if the person were to post a sell order, then cancel the sell order and vender the item themselves.

Salvaging…

Currently, only 2 types of items are worth salvaging for basic crafting materials. Starter level cloth and metal armor which have an item value of less than jute cloth or copper or on the market. Both types of these items currently sell for nearly double what 1 copper ore or jute cloth sells for.

Trying to salvage anything else will net in a loss of money at this point due to the amount of crafting materials on the market.

But you are completely right, if you, as you did in your post above mine, completely left out the posting fee and sales tax, it would generate more money than the current system which has a posting fee and sales tax. So no, it is not an exploit and does no harm to the economies health, it in fact is better to allow people to sell below vender price.

Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that when an item sells an additional 10% is taken out of the economy?

anzenketh.3759:

Yes it is true that there is less money generated across the entire economy. However it creates a 1% problem. Whenever there is a 1% it can at times create instability in a market. Due to this problem is created there needs to be a floor. The floor was not originally there. It was put in place in beta.

There are two reasons why the floor exists. These were the two reasons put forth in the thread post in beta about the topic of implementing a floor.

1.) Players don’t know what price to sell things for. They will guess on a price and they will often guess too low. Due to happens (and it did in beta and is still happening see the 1c over problem.) players would loose out on some income potential from there items. The floor was put in place to help uneducated buyers. (Why would you want to sell below the vendor price anyways. You would get more money from the vendor).

2.) It creates a unfair advantage for people who know the sell price of the item(easily found by a mouse-over of a tooltip. They will then go out and buy all the items and flip them to a vendor. Making easy loop of coin income for that player. This is preventable and to keep coin income distributed across the playerbase the floor was put in place.

what are you talking about? Unfair to ignorant people at the cost of the over all economies health (10% at a time)?

How is it unfair or economy breaking that a person, ignorant or not, sells an item below vender price, when it generates no additional money, but also takes out 10% more of the items value out of the economy permanently?

You have a full inventory and in the middle of a long dynamic event where you are killing hundreds of mobs in waves.

You can either start deleting items in your bag (getting zero money) or you can post it on the TP for a possible loss of 5% to 15%, then when you have time go to the TP, cancel or your sell order and vender the item when you have room.

Which is more “dumb”, deleting the item and getting nothing because your bags or full or posting it on the TP and selling it once you hit town?

You and apparently ANet are completely missing something here.

For the over all health of the economy, buying an item sold below vender price off the TP then reselling it to the vender has no negative effect on the economies health.

There is actually less money generated if an item sells off the TP because of the 10% tax.

A person that sells an item for 1 copper below the vender price loses 15% of their items posted price and 1 copper.

A person that buys an item for 1 copper below vender price is only getting the 1 copper the seller would have received if the seller had vendered the item themselves.

Because there is no reason for anyone to buy an item at +1 copper above vender price, we now have 120958984598 of that same item sitting on the TP waiting for their owner to get to town and cancel the order and vender it themselves.

In effect, basically turning the TP into a temporary bag at the cost of 5% versus allowing players to sell an item below vender price, clearing out the vender and getting an additional 10% money out of the economy.

If those numbers confused people… there is no additional money being generated when people sell and buy below vender price. On the contrary, we get people to buy and sell below vender price, we take an additional 10% out of the economy as a money sink.

Level 73 and have only received keys from the story, never as a drop.

I just sold about 40 different items in the last hour and made around 6 gold… in the last hour.

The TP works, but like most MMOs the majority of loot is trash. The issue is not with the TP or how it functions, it is an issue that most crafted and generated items are useless.

anzenketh.3759:

Michael Fejervary.8576:

Oh, Thank goodness.

The last few days have been quite annoying with trying to sell things to the buyers to only find out that everything your trying to sell and they want to buy is lower than vendor price and cannot be sold, and everyday as those prices stay up the new buyers come giving an even lower offer to try to get first bid on the items. So now we have items going for 1-3c when vendor price is 30c+.

On a sort of related note it really is to bad that the block that should be preventing buyers from making bid offers below vendor didn’t automatically add what the seller would pay as a listing fee for selling as an adjustment to the vendor price so that if they try to offer (for example) 18c on a 20c vendor item it ups it to at least 21c as there lowest allowed bid. Basically so that the seller can end up with at least the vendor price after the listing fee is taking from the item.

I (and I am sure many from what it sounds like on the forum posts here) don’t mind selling something for vendor price to a real player, and under normal circumstances don’t mind the listing fee applied as a cost (such as selling a 3c item for 1s and paying Xc fee). At least until we start getting hit with the listing fees that reduce what you make after a sale to under the vendor price.

In which case you might as well just let players list/buy items for less than vendor.

The reason why this restriction is in place is so that the buyer can’t flip them them to a vendor. The vendor price is the vendor sell price. The vendor does not necessarily sell the item.

This makes absolutely no sense. Think about it.

Player sells an item for 1 copper below vender price. That player now sold an item worth 100 copper for 99 copper. The seller lost 1 copper off vender price and 15% of that items posted value (5% posting fee and 10% tax). The player lost 16 copper selling his 100 copper item at 99 copper.

The player that buys the item only made 1 copper by junking it at the vender. Do you see what happened. No additional money was generated by one player buying an item sold cheaper than the vender price and selling it to a vender. Instead, what happened is the buyer created an additional 10% money sink for the seller by purchasing the item.

Had the item never sold, the seller would have taken it off the TP with only a 5% loss in value and full vender price back to the seller.

ANet is not actually doing anything positive for the players, the economy, or themselves by blocking people who want to sell below vender price.

Right now all we have are 1035899283475 of one type of item sitting at +1 copper above the vender price. No one is buying these items and instead the sellers are canceling the sale once they get into town and vendering the item themselves.

If ANet allows players to sell items below the vender price, not only are they creating an additional 10% money sink for the economy, they are getting rid of a lot of random crap no one would purchase.

not even 70 yet and have nearly 30 gold. Play around on the TP, you can do that anywhere, but I parked an alt at the TP.

Budg.3064:

I don’t think I’ve ever played an MMORPG game where zones haven’t been craters surrounded a ring of mountains.

Asheron’s Call was one HUGE open world. You could run everywhere you could see, there was no zoning in that game.

The way their world worked, it was still split off into zones via server, but inactive zones were turned off if no one was near it. But if a player was in one area, the areas around it would activate and so on.

I once died far off in the mountains when the game first came out, months later came back and my body and all my gear was still there.

Usually it would have decayed after an hour, but since no one had gone back to that specific area, it was saved because that zone was turned off.

That’s an interesting suggestion. I’m about to delete a Thief that I don’t like (want to remake her look) and I bought a bag slot on her.

Even if it only gave swiftness while mounted I would love mounts.

I haven’t found this to happen unless people were under geared and had no clue what was going on.

Players that understand how to use their characters and dodge can go all day with light healing.