Guild Wars 2

It’s getting really annoying. These things should be weak to high AOE damage. However it is a living nightmare to get these turrets to actually die.

IrishPotato.6327:

style.6173:

While under the effects of “endure pain”, a warrior should not be able to contest or cap points.

If that one change was made, I don’t think anything else needs to be adjusted.

Out of all the things people complain about us for….that is the only thing you can think of? Have you tried idk knocking them off the point? Endure pain doesn’t grant stability.

I think a different way of looking at it is doing a percentage that a stance slows a cap for…. So for instance endure pain slows the cap by 50% meaning if someone else was on the point it would start to decap just not as fast as if it was elixir S or something. Then berserker stance slows the cap by 25%… Balanced stance would not affect the cap at all… It’s silly that warriors can have these immunities and go full ham on people. While if a ele or engi pops their immunities they are no longer contributing to the point cap.

Bran.7425:

Slippery slope there. Necromancers are vulnerable to hard control, very likely that is by design.

Yes it is by design… But I also remember Anet saying they want warriors to be somewhat weak to conditions…. LOL that is not happening anymore for sure.

So with the conversation about roles… Where does Anet want the mesmer to play? It currently has absolutely no role in pvp.

Got to the mesmer… Wow… they have no idea where the mesmer is actually at.

Edit: Can’t let everyone be good at everything…

“Mesmer is great at CC!” but…. warrior is better…

Key utilities! Ha!

Warriors need drawbacks several strengths almost no weaknesses. -
Suggestions-Make them weaker to conditions.

• Make cleansing Ire and burst mastery work against each other. If you don’t cleanse all three bars of adrenaline thanks to burst mastery you don’t lose three conditions.
• Move cleansing ire up to GM.

Thieves-S/D acro+trickery

• Deals way to much damage and is way to survivable. This is mainly due to strength runes. Properly nerf those and maybe S/d acro+trickery won’t be so bad.
• Yes thieves should be able to jump in and out of combat. If you want surviability I’m all for that. If you want stupid damage, I’m all for that two but not two at once.

Eles-

• I actually think they are in a decent spot.

Engis-

• Turret engis are annoying and not fun to fight against bordering on OP.
• Engis aren’t very susceptible to CC and only mildly susceptible to conditions… I think if turrets get adjusted a little bit more then maybe engis will be okay.

Necromancers

• The strength of the necromancer should be the ability to mess with opponents boons and be the gods of conditions. They are not. SOS+terror is a one trick pony.
  *Weaknesses- This class should be weak to CC however it is currently so weak to CC that it is almost impossible for it to win against a ham bow. Reduce the CD on their stunbreaks and give them better stunbreaks.
• MM-look at it.

Mesmer-
* I think there is a 300+ post thread on the bug forums that has received minimal attention from the powers that be about the several game breaking bugs that this class has. Before we talk about balancing the mesmer class lets actually make it worth using and fix the kitten bugs.

Ranger
* Can’t comment because I don’t play often however it needs lots of help. Maybe up the damage coeffecient on some of its weapons?

Guardian
* They WOULD be in a good spot if not for a specific other class that dishes out tons of damage and is stronger against conditions than guardians. Also can we speed up the auto attack on hammer? Pretty please? With cherries on top

If you have regular lag spikes that can lead to a disconnect, you shouldn’t tPvP.
I know that this game is all supposed to be fun etc etc. However the “fun” of at least 4 other people (9 if the other team actually cares for a good contest) depend on everyone having a good internet connection.

Simple if you have regular lag spikes you just should team or solo que. Its frustrating for you when you DC and its also frustrating for everyone that plays as well.

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

We are coming up on a year of warriors being a staple to EVERY high level PvP team. Balance means that across all teams and game modes (PvE, WvW, PvP) that all classes are represented equally. This is far from the case there are a few classes that are great in 1 or 2 game modes really outshining others. Then there are only two classes demanded in all game modes that is warrior and guardian. People don’t gripe about guardians being OP because they actually do sacrifice damage for sustain and survive.

and? are you trying to disapprove my point of warrior were at one point completely bad and out of pvp?
and what make you think warrior doesnt sacrifice damage for sustain.

The fact that even with the “nerfed” merciless hammer trait, strength runes, sigil of intelligence, and tons f easily stackable might warriors are still hitting 4-5k earth shakers (something my glass mesmer has a hard time pulling off in zerker gear but is still doable) and they are still extremely hard to kill thanks to you know the absolute highest armor in game and the second highest vitality in the game.

Warriors can do to much with too little effort. They have an effective build of everykind and every single one of their effective builds is still hard to kill (some harder than others.) and does absurd amounts of damage.

Lets not forget the ease that this class lets you play at.

Edit: Also warriors were sooo bad that they got buffed to absurdly OP status in just a few updates. And now over 9 months later they are still absurdly OP, and dominating EVERY single game mode. I can understand certain classes being more popular because of ease of play but they should not be effective at every single fracking thing.

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

We are coming up on a year of warriors being a staple to EVERY high level PvP team. Balance means that across all teams and game modes (PvE, WvW, PvP) that all classes are represented equally. This is far from the case there are a few classes that are great in 1 or 2 game modes really outshining others. Then there are only two classes demanded in all game modes that is warrior and guardian. People don’t gripe about guardians being OP because they actually do sacrifice damage for sustain and survive.

Forestnator.6298:

Poplolita.2638:

Having problem against necromancers because of their conditions? l2p issue, and that’s not up for discussion. And that’s okay, there is nothing to be ashamed off, we all started somewhere.

So, I am 50+ now and still it is just fear fear fear fear + 10000 conditions = dead. It’s not like there is anything to do if you don’t have -100% condition duration like warrior or tons of stability. Don’t tell me about stun breaker. A stun breaker doesn’t make any difference against a nec.

I think this is funny…. Most necros have forgone condition builds and moved on to power mainly because guess what… most players in the game have learned how to deal with conditionmancers I think there is something to that there if you are still the only one having trouble against condi mancers.

The fact that an MM necro lost to a mesmer… That is something that I find kind of shocking.

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

Lol warrirors have been “shaved.” And they are the only class that actually got adjusted with shaves. Every other class has been pounded into the ground like a giant hammering a post into the ground.

you serious? rifle celestial, fear necro, balthazar engi, steal sd thief, staff ele, dd ele.

Fear necro- Terror has had its damage chopped in pvp as well as dhuumfire receiving so many nerfs to the pont where it’s almost never used now.

Rifle celestial engi- only mildly good because of strength runes

Balthazar Engi- nowhere near as hard to deal with as the celestial rifle engi but still there

SD thief- has been nerfed into the ground a few times but now only exists because of everyone running around with 25 might stacks.

Staff/dd ele- dd ele is strong once again because of strength runes staff ele is a one trick pony that is one of the most susceptible builds to focus fire.

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

Lishtenbird.2814:

frifox.5283:

Ok, I may have run across a bug that’s not easy to reproduce but I know for a fact that it’s there. Managed to observe it 4 times yesterday (tested 4 times, 1 time w/out sigil 1 time with and then again 1 w/out and 1 with the sigil, to be absolutely sure I’m not just seeing things). I’m not sure what exactly causes it, still trying to figure that out. The bug is that under certain conditions (pvp gear/traits & pve gear) equipping Sigil of Force actually LOWERS your phantasm dps by 5%.

Direct bonuses (like +5% damage) do not transfer to illusions, that’s why Bloodlust is better for illusion-oriented (lol) mesmers than Force, and Ruby orbs are better than Scholar runes.

Wow… Really? No wonder my mesmer feels like it hits like a wet noodle compared to you know… ERRTHANG?!

^This guy… He gets it.

Lol warrirors have been “shaved.” And they are the only class that actually got adjusted with shaves. Every other class has been pounded into the ground like a giant hammering a post into the ground.

killahmayne.9518:

jportell.2197:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Sarrs.4831:

sounds like the problem is that so much of warrior survivability is predicated around CI

It is, which is why I think the most important healing skill that needs to be changed is Mending. With it being viable a whole bunch more options will hopefully open up.

Warriors should get increased condition clear in their heals when they give mesmers more condi removal in their healing skills. Because lets face it mesmers are the most struggling class in any pvp mode aside from maybe ranger.

#1: If you don’t have anything productive to say, why are you even responding in this thread aside from general crying.

#2: What relevance do Mesmers have in this thread please explain this to me?

#3: These are just suggestions to improve Warrior healing skills. Nobody denies Mesmers or any other classes need improvements to some of there mechanics and traits. If you are so upset go cry in another thread or make your own.

#4: Condis are not what keeps Mesmers out of the meta.

#5: Mending Purity gives Ether Feast which is already one of the best HPS skills a 2 condi removal for just 10 points in inspiration. It also gives the healing mantra 4 condi removals on a a very short CD and Mimic gives 2 on a 15 second CD. Mesmers have other issues we all know this but condition management isn’t one of them. The options are there.

However this is me pointing out that if warriors get anything changed. It should happen AFTER Anet looks at other classes especially in the terms of buffs.

In the way of nerfs warriors should be looked at first.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Sarrs.4831:

sounds like the problem is that so much of warrior survivability is predicated around CI

It is, which is why I think the most important healing skill that needs to be changed is Mending. With it being viable a whole bunch more options will hopefully open up.

Warriors should get increased condition clear in their heals when they give mesmers more condi removal in their healing skills. Because lets face it mesmers are the most struggling class in any pvp mode aside from maybe ranger.

oZii.2864:

jportell.2197:

I remember when zelulose was griping about how mesmers were OP and he had the absolute best mesmer build in the game and that his build is why mesmers should be nerfed. IIRC he 1v1’d one of the more prominent mesmers in the community, (mesmer community not the self proclaimed pvp mesmer gods.) and he got absolutely destroyed with in a few seconds….. So anything that he gripes about take it with a grain of salt because well it seems that he just doesn’t know how to deal with some of the weaker builds or a class that has no stability outside of lich form on one of the classes best equipped to strip said stability. Baddies gonbe bad.

Was that Pyro with his phantasm build he fought? If so I remember reading that.

YUP! LOL the video was hilarious. But given that experience this doesn’t surprise me that he has found something else to be upset about.

Seriously… Have yet to touch my mesmer again…. Can ANet please fix this class?

NeXeD.3042:

Is the acct you made it to top 100s different from the one you post on?

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/jportell2197

I recently have been going for different champ titles and was fool enough to start playing ranger…. Drops you down quite abit when playing one of the weakest classes in the game for soloque.

Your build isn’t the absolute highest DPS you can get as a necromancer and most certainly not the highest DPS you can get in PvP.

You take reapers might and spiteful talisman… But completely forget Chill of death.
This is arguably one of the best traits in the Game. It is an instant proc unblockable skill that can do up to 8k damage.
Also you don’t have a stunbreaker and are using runes of the eagle. Which is great for dmg increase when your target is under 50 health. However there are other damage modifier runes that you can keep the 6th bonus up on for longer…. sayyy runes of strength? They equate to over all higher DPS since you can keep it the bonus up longer especially in teamfights. Then their is the lack of a stunbreaker. Yes I know necro stunbreakers are on absurdly long cooldowns however aside from flesh wurm which is just a teleport and requires a pre-cast, necro stunbreakers are pretty friggin awesome. The most awesome of which is spectral walk. It gives you swiftness and a telport within a reasonable timeframe and this teleport is UNRESTRICTED! Which means you can activate spectral walk>darkpath someone drop your wells on them and spectral recall completely back out of the fight… So with those two skills and combo you can bounce in and out of a fight like a thief but not as often… Spectral walk is still great for running in and dropping wells then porting out and going into lich form. Which btw why no lich form? It triples your power and is a teamfight decider especially if you and your team can CC the opposition into the wells that you should have dropped before lich form.

Lastly you are running a sigil of battle and no rune of strength? You are really hampering your DPS with that one. Another thing that is absolutely killing your “ultimate” power is the lack of stacking sigils of fire+air in the same weapon set. Having a sigil of air and a sigil of fire in the same weaponset gives you insane burst potential especially since they are on ridiculously short ICDs.

Your trait spread is standard but your rune and sigil and skill choices aren’t very great as well as specific traits. You are missing out on a lot there is nothing like oneshotting a thief, mesmer, or an ele, that is stomping your mate just by using doom because when you do use doom (DS #3) It will proc sigils of air, fire, and chill of death giving you an instant 8-9k damage at range and saving your teammates rear end.

TLDR: This isn’t the “ultimate” powermancer build for the following reasons.

• No chill of death (instant proc/unblockable)
• Could achieve higher DPS/Burst potential with a different runeset (strength/scholar etc.)
• No stacking of a sigil of air+fire combo (seriously try it.)
  *Taking signet of spite (signets don’t work in death shroud 6/2/0/0/6 gets all of its DPS from deathshroud, so you are running a counter productive skill to your build.)
• No stunbreak (WTF?!)

Here is what I use. I went from the %’s on the leaderboard to the top 100 on this build in a few days.
The DPS and team fight capability is insane with lich form and the two wells which eat up almost every profession… Just gotta play it smart.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAW4djc0UcbNNu0whbCchC63MAahoCBqbjz4ZB-TJBFwACeIAl2foaZAAXBAA

I remember when zelulose was griping about how mesmers were OP and he had the absolute best mesmer build in the game and that his build is why mesmers should be nerfed. IIRC he 1v1’d one of the more prominent mesmers in the community, (mesmer community not the self proclaimed pvp mesmer gods.) and he got absolutely destroyed with in a few seconds….. So anything that he gripes about take it with a grain of salt because well it seems that he just doesn’t know how to deal with some of the weaker builds or a class that has no stability outside of lich form on one of the classes best equipped to strip said stability. Baddies gonbe bad.

It’s so funny because I play power necro….. (among other things.) I have even gone against teams that have brought two power lich necro’s and they popped lich at the same time. Immediately after one of our thieves used steal the mesmer used null field and I popped lich. Needless to say those two necro’s died. Lich has a counter and you play one of the classes that can counter lich the best. You’re bad and need to learn to play against this very obvious and counterable elite. Maybe we should change bask venom?

Also Steal… STEAL STEAL STEAL STEAL… The only boon that a lich necro has is stability… It just so happens thieves have the most spammable boon removal in the game… Herpa kitten a

Sunshine.5014:

Aomine.5012:

It is his elite with extremely long cool down, it SHOULD be that strong.

Ele’s tornado has a super long cooldown too, but it’s like trash compare to Lich form. I wish they give Ele a better elite

Ever seen tornado form coupled with meteor shower? Yeah… Scary as eff… Just gotta know how to use the elites.

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

In comparison to what other utility skill? Afaik, no other utility functions like Merciful Intervention. But this isn’t the point of my posts to you. You said valor is bad because of no support, I told you there is communal defense. So that argument is now invalid. You said that guardians can be selfish, in reality they can’t unless they really try hard to do everything not to assist allies.

I don’t have a subjective view of support, I’m talking about objectively. By the definition of what it means. Objectively speaking the entire class design is built upon support, no one can deny this.

And if you want group support you would go anywhere but valor. PvE Is a DPS race. Valor gives the worst DPS options in guardian trait lines. It also gives the worst support from all of guardians trait lines.

Do you do teq or wurm?

Have done it since those can’t be critted you can get away with soldiers. And in Teq or wurm guards are taken for their support meaning not meditations.

Aza.2105:

In comparison to what other utility skill? Afaik, no other utility functions like Merciful Intervention. But this isn’t the point of my posts to you. You said valor is bad because of no support, I told you there is communal defense. So that argument is now invalid. You said that guardians can be selfish, in reality they can’t unless they really try hard to do everything not to assist allies.

I don’t have a subjective view of support, I’m talking about objectively. By the definition of what it means. Objectively speaking the entire class design is built upon support, no one can deny this.

And if you want group support you would go anywhere but valor. PvE Is a DPS race. Valor gives the worst DPS options in guardian trait lines. It also gives the worst support from all of guardians trait lines.

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

Communal Defense is probably one of the best group utilities guardian has and its in the valor line.

In regards to your idea that meditation guardians are selfish, its hard to be selfish as a guardian when most of their weapon skills provide group support in some way. So saying that a selfish guardian exists is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever heard. In fact, its really hard to create a selfish guardian build. You would literally have to use scepter, no off hand weapon, meditations or signets and never use your virtues.

Do you ever see anyone play like that? I sure haven’t. While other classes have to trait heavily into support to help allies guardians support is innate. So even though players aren’t running your “ideal” guardian build, they are still supporting allies in some way shape and form.

Actually guardian weapons provide support with only staff (if you take this in a dungeon any speed clear group will kick you.), and the hammer auto attack chain. Focus provides minimal support and sword provides none. Greatsword is good for cc and not much else as far as a group is concerned. Communal defenses also has a 20s CD so it’s not exactly THAT great since guardians have so many blocks that the proccing communal defenses would be completely random I would rather use retreat, hold the line etc. Also communal defenses would not be taken in a mediation build because you are sacrificing the meditations healing you which is half of a meditation build alone. Then lets not forget you are still missing the tons of %dmg increase traits that guardians get from EVERY other line besides valor. And no a meditation guardian is not really supporting anyone at all besides himself…. Its equivalent of taking a necro in your group. Except necros can still bring wells.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Can-a-selfish-guardian-really-exist/first#post3896158

And not a single thing in that list was a meditation……… and here is what people are talking about.

The OP was referencing the meta in PvE as far as guardian compared to warriors. Then some genius came along and talked about how a triple meditation guardian is the “meta” in PvE. Which is the furthest thing from the truth.

Merciful Intervention is on the list, which is a pretty good skill imo.

And the only meditation that provides some group support. And even at that its group support isn’t THAT good.

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

Communal Defense is probably one of the best group utilities guardian has and its in the valor line.

In regards to your idea that meditation guardians are selfish, its hard to be selfish as a guardian when most of their weapon skills provide group support in some way. So saying that a selfish guardian exists is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever heard. In fact, its really hard to create a selfish guardian build. You would literally have to use scepter, no off hand weapon, meditations or signets and never use your virtues.

Do you ever see anyone play like that? I sure haven’t. While other classes have to trait heavily into support to help allies guardians support is innate. So even though players aren’t running your “ideal” guardian build, they are still supporting allies in some way shape and form.

Actually guardian weapons provide support with only staff (if you take this in a dungeon any speed clear group will kick you.), and the hammer auto attack chain. Focus provides minimal support and sword provides none. Greatsword is good for cc and not much else as far as a group is concerned. Communal defenses also has a 20s CD so it’s not exactly THAT great since guardians have so many blocks that the proccing communal defenses would be completely random I would rather use retreat, hold the line etc. Also communal defenses would not be taken in a mediation build because you are sacrificing the meditations healing you which is half of a meditation build alone. Then lets not forget you are still missing the tons of %dmg increase traits that guardians get from EVERY other line besides valor. And no a meditation guardian is not really supporting anyone at all besides himself…. Its equivalent of taking a necro in your group. Except necros can still bring wells.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Can-a-selfish-guardian-really-exist/first#post3896158

And not a single thing in that list was a meditation……… and here is what people are talking about.

The OP was referencing the meta in PvE as far as guardian compared to warriors. Then some genius came along and talked about how a triple meditation guardian is the “meta” in PvE. Which is the furthest thing from the truth.

a t s e.9614:

Lmao this guy with his " You should be kicked !!! " . Last time I ran 5 signet warrior with a riffle. Never got kicked. Mad?

If it’s a speed clear group you would have been kicked. Because they would have actually cared.

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

Communal Defense is probably one of the best group utilities guardian has and its in the valor line.

In regards to your idea that meditation guardians are selfish, its hard to be selfish as a guardian when most of their weapon skills provide group support in some way. So saying that a selfish guardian exists is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever heard. In fact, its really hard to create a selfish guardian build. You would literally have to use scepter, no off hand weapon, meditations or signets and never use your virtues.

Do you ever see anyone play like that? I sure haven’t. While other classes have to trait heavily into support to help allies guardians support is innate. So even though players aren’t running your “ideal” guardian build, they are still supporting allies in some way shape and form.

Actually guardian weapons provide support with only staff (if you take this in a dungeon any speed clear group will kick you.), and the hammer auto attack chain. Focus provides minimal support and sword provides none. Greatsword is good for cc and not much else as far as a group is concerned. Communal defenses also has a 20s CD so it’s not exactly THAT great since guardians have so many blocks that the proccing communal defenses would be completely random I would rather use retreat, hold the line etc. Also communal defenses would not be taken in a mediation build because you are sacrificing the meditations healing you which is half of a meditation build alone. Then lets not forget you are still missing the tons of %dmg increase traits that guardians get from EVERY other line besides valor. And no a meditation guardian is not really supporting anyone at all besides himself…. Its equivalent of taking a necro in your group. Except necros can still bring wells.

If its wvw who cares wvw was never balanced. In PvP let them sit in stealth for 15s while I cap the point. There is a Shadow arts thief running around pvp that thinks he is god but really he is just like a nuisance to the other team and makes it a 4v5 for our team.

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a heterosexual relationship. I mean we had Caithe and Faolin, Marjory and Kasmeere. Logan and the Queen sure but it would never really happen. Granted the charr is a race that lacks romanticism entirely they reproduce strictly for furthering their species. So it would have to be norn/sylvari/human but since we have the lesbian relationship with humans and no sylvari in destiny’s edge 2.0 (No trahearne doesn’t count.) I would like to see a male/female sylvari relationship maybe Malyck and someone else.

This would be especially fitting since we are going after Mordremorth next (presumably.)

However braham and rox. No I don’t see it. Mainly because it’s like trying to get a tiger to have a relationship with a moose.

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

a t s e.9614:

eleshazar.6902:

a t s e.9614:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

The person who thinks I’m talking about PvE needs to be kicked , not me. But while we are at it, guardian and warrior are easy in both PvP and PvE.

I have a feeling this guy has never played a zerk guard in his life. Zerk guardian in PvP is fine if you are good, you have blocks and blinds a plenty. In PvE Zerk guard is a hard spec to play since you can’t blind/block a lot of things in PvE. Which means you need to be really good with your dodges and seeing telegraphs, because if you miss one step you are dead with the lowest health pool in the game (same as thief and ele). I play zerk on every class I play in PvE, and thief is 10xs easier zerk than zerk guard.

And back to the OP, in no way is guardian more popular in PvE than warrior. They have the capability to out DPS a warrior, but only if you are exceedingly talented (keeping Unscathed contender on). But overall a Warrior will out-DPS a guard because you rely on keeping up Aegis (not getting hit by anything) in order to stay above them in dps. Also the survivability of that build is not easy. Meanwhile my zerk warrior can hit for 25k HB pretty regularly. And for utility, with the new grandmaster PS, they can stack more might than a guard can, and keep it up permanently.

So no, Warrior is the trend, and guardians are the one that are becoming more and more extinct/obsolete.

I played zerk guard in PvP. It does a stupid amount of damage just by pressing the sword #3. At least with a warrior you need some kind of stun to land the damage.

Not to mention the auto attack that crits for 4k on the sword. Guardian is not hard , it just more boring than warrior because of the low mobility.

The thread is PvE oriented you won’t shut up about pvp. And even in a perfect world a DPS meditation guardian will not out-DPS a non meditation guardian simply because you are losing out on a ton of % damage increase traits that you don’t see otherwise.

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

I’d give anything for a minimum rank for soloque at least so people understand the map mechanics. Also the MMR system is horribly bad. I had gotten to the top 100 soloque (as much as people want to say it it is all luck in reality it is 50% luck 50% a good build that can carry a team fight.) Once I got there I started looking up teammates after a match…. More often than not I would see people who’s highest rank was 400, 500, even some that were in the %’s or people that just plain werent on the leaderboard at all (and these guys had legendaries! GASP)

Its SOOO funny when people gripe about lich form.

Step 1: Thieves-Boon strip and burst and blind gg
Step 2: Mesmer-Boon Strip CC>GG
Step 3: Necro-Terror necro destroys power necro and another power necro can also destroy lich form.
Step 4: Warrior with hammer can inflict weakness a weakened lich is useless(ele as well, and mesmer, and engi, and another necro)
Step 5: ????
Step 6: Profit.

Vael Victus.2654:

We really should have had a new thread for this. It’s been 8 months.

Also mesmers do not need a buff you sillies :!>:F

Mesmers are in need of a huge buff.

-S Tier:
+Hambow, S/S Lbow, banner bunker warrior.
+Turret Engi- like hambow warrior too much damage while being too tanky
=S/D thief-Larcenous strike hits too hard while stealing boons… Damage needs toned down.
= D/D celestial ele. While super annoying it can be killed. Their OPness has more to do with rune of strength than anything.

-A Tier:
+Bunker Guardian-being held back mainly by warrior.
+=MM necro can be moved up its one of the best afk specs in the game.
=Engineer-any other build but turret is in this tier
-Power/condi necro both specs are hanging on by a thread

:( Tier:
Mesmer-everyone does everything better than mesmer anet needs to stop nerfing this class into garbage
Ranger-Its either really OP like the old spirit build or completely useless like power ranger.

Ways to deal with lich form:

• Boon removal-Stability is the only boon that a lich has for them selves. Thief, Mesmer, or another necro can deal with that easily enough
• Blind-Lich has only one condi removal
• Weakness-Several classes can inflict weakness with weakness on a lich they go from dealing 5k auto attacks to 900-1k. Much easier to deal with. Mesmer, ele, necro, thief, warrior should be able to do that
• Focus Fire- If someone pops lich in a team fight stop targeting whoever you have targeted and go after the lich.

That should be plenty of counters to lich also if you do have boon removal they can be thrown around the point like a giant green ping pong ball.

vincecontix.1264:

All the raging this thread is hilarious.

It’s not so much rage as it is frustration with an extremely easy to play build. My team and I, in effort to make a point played a certain comp in team que last week. This comp consisted of three turret engis all running the exact same build which was 0/2/6/6/0, rifle, healing turret, thumper turret, rifle turret, rocket turret, and supply crate celestial amulet, and runes of the pirate. Our other team members were a triple kit celestial engi, and a zerker staff ele (swapped them to a power necro halfway through.) In 5 hours we lost 2 matches. One of which was mainly due to one of our players constantly Dcing. In one match this same player dc’d for half the match and we beat the other team by alot. This build is so broken that it allows teams to win 4v5.

An argument people have made against this evidence is “You didn’t face any good teams.” People actually tried using the argument that in 5 hours of continuous team que our team did not face a single good team. While it is possible, the other side of the argument is that this build, (we say it only because it made up the majority of our team) is much stronger than people are willing to admit and provides too much reward for too little effort.

Once again 5 hours 3 turret engis, 2 losses…. Those numbers should speak for themselves.

What’s always fun is when a turret engi claims that power necro is low risk high reward easy to play skill clicking “n00b”.
I have had turret engis gripe several times about my power necro build. I think they are really only mad because the absolute easiest build in the game has something that can counter it.

miriforst.1290:

Yeah they surely hit like a truck compared to, lets say phantasms? I mean that rifle turret dealing 300ish damage a second is surely ridiculous compared to a illusionary unload hitting for what now again? And while phantasms die faster they also start their recharge at deployment, can reposition themselves to attack instead of firing into a wall, is on a profession with baseline 2 weapon sets with good access of stealth, prot, vigor, blocks invulns evades are affected by boons and traits in general. The only thing i could argue for is crit and conditions, but their base survivability is so low you don’t need to crit them to hit them for lots. But yeah sucks to be a condition necro or condi thief i suppose.

But for a mesmer encountering one of these “kitten i should just setup my rifle, rocket and net turret in a triangle here and be happy” engineers (rolled by people trying to make the point that turrets are overpowered i would give the following words of advice: Greatsword, Sword, Pistol. Not necessarily all of them if you still want to retain the ability to switch over to staff to survive extremely well for a glass cannon you can do so.

I have ended up in duels ending in a tie with PU mesmers, but that kitten well isn’t by just setting up turrets and autoattacking.

Thieves getting kittened over by the tricorn turrets i suppose i understand better though.

Not just thieves. mesmers while rifle turret may not hit hard rocket turret hits like a truck. Lets not forget the thumper turret launch combined with the rifle launch… The turrets pump out so many boons that engis damage isn’t half bad. Meanwhile their survivability is ridiculously over the top.

Simply put turret engis do too much damage while being too tanky.
Low risk Low reward hands down easiest build in the game.

Turret engis are a cheap no skill build that require little to no effort to master. The AI does all the work for you.

It’s worse than PU mes or necro minions because turrets are immune to conditions and they cannot be crittically struck. Meanwhile any build that is slightly risky gets wrecked by this build just because the turrets hit like a truck.

Yes I know they cannot hit someone critically but they still hit like a truck. Not too mention the amount of insane boons they put out. Perma fury, might, swiftness, protection, and vigor thanks to the turrets from skills and then supply crate. Yeah… Turret engi is a better boon spammer than eles or guards… While doing much much much better damage

It’s a cheap build that needs nerfed back into garbage.

gesho.9468:

second life is not enough, now it needs heals too…

Mainly because it is a very subpar defense compared to the defenses other classes in the game get. For Instance:

1. Blinks. Mesmers, Eles, Thieves, Guardians (target required), Necromancers, (DS 2 buggy pathing often misses, Flesh Wurm the only short CD stun breaker for necros.)

2. In Weapon evades. Every class has these except necromancers and guardians.

3. Invulnerability, All classes except necromancers and thieves (warriors are included for their stances which yes are invulnerabilities)

4. Stability, All classes except necromancers and thieves and rangers (Rampage as one is still great but a long cd) have access to stability on relatively short-ish cooldowns (Ele earth 4)

5. VIGOR, Every class has an amazing way to rapidly refill their endurance bar EXCEPT necros.

6. Blocks: Available to every class except necros and thieves.

7. Projectile absorption/reflection, this is available to absolutely every class except necros.

You will note necros do have some of these things however almost all classes get access to all of these. Usually if one class has no access to one they have several ways to access others. Take guardians lake of in weapon evades they make up for this with their extremely large amount of blocks that they can access.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

For allowing healing in death shroud, I feel it would be best to start slower. Make the Regeneration boon and the necro’s traits (Parasitic Contagion, Parasitic Bond, siphons) continue to function in death shroud and see where it goes from there. Transfusion in particular probably doesn’t need to change, as its purpose is more of group support rather than supporting the necro.

Because we all know that people take necromancers for their amazing group support….. :/ Giving the necromancer more sustain through allowing their traits and skills that heal them to function in death shroud may actually give them a legitimate tanking build outside of near useless minions.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

I just noticed that no one included the healing by unholy sanctuary, it’s about 130 HP per second. Take that for what you will, the way I see it, I think my death shroud lasts about 20 sec while taking heat in the average wvw fight, so it’s only about a 2.5k heal.

Given necromancers massive health pool 2.5k isn’t too impressive. However if siphon traits triggered while in death shroud it would become much more interesting.
I think the biggest thing would be for signets like signet of vampirism’s passive to proc it’s effect while in death shroud.

Yes engineers are ruining PvP. Have actually done a team que againts 4 turret engis all running accelrant packed turrets and the turrets doing more damage and giving boons. Not only could my team of 3 glass cannons/2 bunkers not kill them their fricking rocket turrets were hitting like a truck. Someone wearing a soldiers ammy should not be hitting that hard. If you want good damage you should sacrifice if you want tankiness you shouldn’t do that much damage. People should not be able to get the best of both worlds unfortunately hambow warrs and decap/turret engis get both. This is wrong and needs fixed/nerfed.

Rage.9723:

On the contrary when you get to a higher percentile rank matches seem to get harder. Ever since I started hovering around 90th percentile matchmaking rankings for tpvp arena, matches became much more intense.

You may need to get a higher percentile rank. What is your percentile on the leaderboards for tpvp arena?

95% then i get more and more morons the higher i get. And then they do stupid kitten like that. So yeah… MMR is feels completely random as kitten and is kittening annoying.

Chase.8415:

The reason I am having fun is because of the matchmaking system. This is amazing compared to random arenas in guild wars classic, where there was no ranking and the team without a healer always lost except in rare cases.

yeah except now you have people that play the dumbest tactics costing you the match.

For instance earlier today I had a soloque with a ranger that said “I’m going to solo far don’t come.”
I say in chat… “Please don’t just reinforce home and mid instead.” He replied that he knows he could do it and to just win the team fight… Well we win the team fight… He dies and because we needed our bunker to reinforce the team fight he had to leave home which got decapped and our ranger died.

So started the match out two capped…. I begged the ranger “We have mid please just help get home back and hold mid.” Once again the ranger ressed pushed far and died again…. Meanwhile he is raging at our entire team because we don’t have home back yet…. Well in a team fight on a capped point the advantage is almost always in favor of the team that has it capped. We didn’t want to pull our bunker off of mid to help the fight because then it would have been back capped (we couldn’t rotate anyone because the ranger insisted on pushing far solo over and over and over.)

At the end of the match our entire team is calling the ranger out for costing us and he is calling me out for being a “bad dragon rank” because I called him out on a stupid tactic that wouldn’t work.

TLDR: Pvp is not very fun right now because matchmaking is bad and people think they are MLG pros and can solo an MM bunker as a zerker ranger…. You can’t fix *S*T*U*P*I*D*