@Kardiamond – “too casual friendly”
But that’s ANet’s selling point. The manifesto and not doing things just cuz every other mmo does.
You have to see that pvp, especially wvw is an add-on to the game world of GW2. It doesn’t even take place in Tyria, and pk is only ever by consent.
That’s the game they sold, so that’s the game they made.
From what I’ve seen, it’s been very successful, in that my guild has people who’ve sworn they’d never pvp, but they really enjoy going on our guild wvw zergs. If it got personal, that protective veil would be lost, and it’d lose its appeal to that class of player.
Note that you do see names in pvp.
(edit: by which I mean the ranked/competitive pvp system in GW2)
@mulch: if the lead server is the only one owning any objectives, the match is already effectively over, and the lead server will win with a huge lopsided advantage.
This comes into play when all three servers own some territory, but one server is in the lead and owns most of the territory.
That doesn’t match my experience at all.
We’ve woken up to find the map changed color overnight. So we took it back, and then had it taken from us again.
It’s an interesting design decision. I’m ok with it. I’ve played real pvp games before, and it could get personal, fast. That ramps up the excitement, but also the negative emotions.
Kill on sight lists, and bounties. We’ll have none of that in GW2.
/shrug
It’s supposed to be that you can bring party members to your story quest.
It doesn’t always work, as so much of the party system in GW2 isn’t fully functional yet.
You do have to be in the same zone. Seems to help if you’re close. Race/Order/Level completely doesn’t matter at all.
Frequently when you’re the guest party member, you won’t be able to see the cut scenes. All of them are in instances, but when the instance is the same as an open world zone, you’ll miss out on the story.
I think it’s very rewarding in the sense of you make a really decent bit of loot, the xp can’t be matched in pve, and the karma rolls in quite well, too.
As far as badges and wvw vendors, I could see some nice skins over and above what’s available now.
Stats advantages — no, that’s just counter to the fundamental design principles.
Bragging rights leader board – I like that idea. Make it based on karma earned in wvw would be pretty easy to tabulate.
No gameplay effects.
And as it turns out, no story-quest effects that matter, either.
The bottom three tiers have competitive match-ups this week. The other tiers don’t.
The ability to zerg, the orb buffs, the queue system — all of that is the same mechanic for all the tiers.
So if you’re gonna blame a game-design element for “ruining” the wvw part of the game, you have to be able to explain why it’s not affecting the bottom 9 servers.
but it is, look at yaks. massive server transfer to SoR blew this entire bracket out for the week. so bad that SoR is moving up two brackets. keep smashing your head in the sand though, when you pop up to see the zerg being a max of 10 people you will can look back at threads like this to explain where everyone went.
So why haven’t server transfers affected the bottom 9 teams that remain competitive all week? With instant transfers, wouldn’t you predict that WvW fans in non-competitive tiers would have jumped down and joined the fray there?
I’m not saying that Yaks wasn’t adversely affected by losing their good players to transfers or whatever, just that transfers alone can’t explain why 3/8 had good matches this week and 5/8 had blow-outs.
Lol, of course it does. The servers that got transfers won, the servers that lost players lost the match.
Most transfers are by band wagon players to winning servers. The few players that actually care about competition are a very minor number compared to the band wagon transfers.
Yes, I see that makes a story that can justify 5/8 of the tiers.
But why didn’t server transfers adversely affect those other 3 tiers?/boggle
Lemmings don’t transfer to the lower tiers.
Sure, but I have to think players interested in competitive wvw would go where the competitive wvw is, don’t you think?
Myself, I’m on my server for as long as I’m in GW2, for the family and the legacy/community. We’ve been blown out and had a couple lop-sided victories along with a few close competitive matchups. I can attest, if you like wvw, it’s more active when it’s competitve.
I purchased 3 more character slots. After that…then bank slots and Black Lion salvage kits. Never exchange gems for gold though.
I heard the BL salvage kits aren’t as good as the ones we buy in game. true/false?
Yesterday in WvW on my lvl 60s guardian, I had 3 solo fights. One, an engineer, killed me. The other 2, a warrior and a necro, I killed, despite running with a staff equipped and being a lowbie in blue/green gear. The warrior did the stand-up thing, so I had to kill him twice.
Yet I know from doing pvp that a warrior is much stronger than any engi, and prob’ly I’d give the edge to necros, too (except I have oodles of condition removal as guardian). But seriously, to lose to my very kitable lowbie guardian, there’s more L2P than profession involved.
So I come to the conclusion that profession, per se, in wvw doesn’t particularly matter that much.
The bottom three tiers have competitive match-ups this week. The other tiers don’t.
The ability to zerg, the orb buffs, the queue system — all of that is the same mechanic for all the tiers.
So if you’re gonna blame a game-design element for “ruining” the wvw part of the game, you have to be able to explain why it’s not affecting the bottom 9 servers.
but it is, look at yaks. massive server transfer to SoR blew this entire bracket out for the week. so bad that SoR is moving up two brackets. keep smashing your head in the sand though, when you pop up to see the zerg being a max of 10 people you will can look back at threads like this to explain where everyone went.
So why haven’t server transfers affected the bottom 9 teams that remain competitive all week? With instant transfers, wouldn’t you predict that WvW fans in non-competitive tiers would have jumped down and joined the fray there?
I’m not saying that Yaks wasn’t adversely affected by losing their good players to transfers or whatever, just that transfers alone can’t explain why 3/8 had good matches this week and 5/8 had blow-outs.
Lol, of course it does. The servers that got transfers won, the servers that lost players lost the match.
Most transfers are by band wagon players to winning servers. The few players that actually care about competition are a very minor number compared to the band wagon transfers.
Yes, I see that makes a story that can justify 5/8 of the tiers.
But why didn’t server transfers adversely affect those other 3 tiers?
What counts for “realm rank?” Objectives taken? WvW karma earned?
is interesting concept
The bottom three tiers have competitive match-ups this week. The other tiers don’t.
The ability to zerg, the orb buffs, the queue system — all of that is the same mechanic for all the tiers.
So if you’re gonna blame a game-design element for “ruining” the wvw part of the game, you have to be able to explain why it’s not affecting the bottom 9 servers.
but it is, look at yaks. massive server transfer to SoR blew this entire bracket out for the week. so bad that SoR is moving up two brackets. keep smashing your head in the sand though, when you pop up to see the zerg being a max of 10 people you will can look back at threads like this to explain where everyone went.
So why haven’t server transfers affected the bottom 9 teams that remain competitive all week? With instant transfers, wouldn’t you predict that WvW fans in non-competitive tiers would have jumped down and joined the fray there?
I’m not saying that Yaks wasn’t adversely affected by losing their good players to transfers or whatever, just that transfers alone can’t explain why 3/8 had good matches this week and 5/8 had blow-outs.
Seeing the scores are user-entered and some 4 hours difference between updates for some tiers, it’s hard to call the close ones.
Ironically, the closeness comes between tiers, not within tiers, except for the lowest 3 tiers.
I don’t actually see that happening, despite having one-sided wvw match-ups a lot (and being on both the upper and lower side of it).
On the dominating team, roaming around looking for a fight, never have I found the two losing servers fighting over an objective. When we were the underdog, we just scrapped to take whatever we could, which invariably was the top-server’s stuff.
Cuz they’re the ones what own it, eh.
The bottom three tiers have competitive match-ups this week. The other tiers don’t.
The ability to zerg, the orb buffs, the queue system — all of that is the same mechanic for all the tiers.
So if you’re gonna blame a game-design element for “ruining” the wvw part of the game, you have to be able to explain why it’s not affecting the bottom 9 servers.
Yeah Tine Sionnach, invaders coming into your actual spawn point, that’s a more appropriate use of spawn-camp (and not very sporting).
For me, I’ve rarely ever used the designated exits, even when they weren’t camped, cuz I’m a cliff-jumper.
The bugs and glitches are very bad still.
I think the OP’s point about using pve mobs as targets is related to other negative effects of that design decision.
WvW’s PvE mobs are laughably wimpy. My guild’s commanders counsel to just run on by them. Why? cuz they hit like kittens, not the bad-word sort, but fluffy cute little kittens. Compared to lvl 80 mobs on Tyria, these mists mobs are kitten cats. Low HP, low dps. So… what do we get? We get a bunch of pve hunters and bots farming these mobs for super easy loot & xp.
As far as the downed state, in the pvp side of the game, it’s actually very strategic. I know that doesn’t translate to wvw all that well, but I find it adds a lot to pvp and pve, too.
I read this and I still can’t tell if this thread is about reviving players in the downed state, or if it’s about reviving fully-dead players.
It’s part of the game, part of the developers’ stated vision that you shouldn’t spend a lot of time in the bleh parts of the game. So reviving fully-dead people is possible, even if it doesn’t make sense in any immersion-type way. And every profession can revive. It goes much much slower in combat, but it’s possible.
The principle is to get you up and back into the action asap. Similarly there’s basically no death-penalty, just minor repair costs that are completely optional while you level up (as you can buy new at-level replacement gear for ~vendor price).
Spawn camping – we remember it from pvp games where an attacker could sit on your corpse and stymie your attempts to recover yourself.
In games with pvp mini-games, the term gets used as ‘graveyard camping,’ where you attack people as they emerge from the respawn location.
In WvW, the terms been applied to people staying at the supply camp north of a borderlands owner’s citadel.
Is that a relevant use of the term? There’s a bajillion ways people can get out, and more relevantly, you’re _*supposed_* to defend assets that you’ve taken.
I can see “spawn camping” applying to the borderlands main road out of the south east and south west non-owners’ settlements (even tho there’s paths leading out to the sides). But not to the ones that own the citadel.
I find that moving to the back of a mob, I am hit by considerably fewer of its attacks.
Definitely against other players, not being where they’re trying to hit is essential to melee, cuz you can’t dodge-roll everything.
Whether a tab-target mmorpg type system counts as action-oriented combat, I’m not sure. It’s not Tekken…
It really depends which character I’m playing, how I feel about blinds.
On my guardian & thief, they’re extremely useful. On my ranger, they’re frustrating. Actually I hate gettin blinded on my thief, too.
I don’t like the idea of autoloot for WvW. They already made it so the loot bags land at your feet.
I WANT you to feel the pangs of loss, looking at the pretty bag next to your corpse as you vainly hope for a revive. Cuz you don’t lose xp, you don’t lose karma, you don’t drop anything from your loot or inventory. I know it doesn’t really fit in a non-pvp-centric game, but there should be at least something you lose for dying.
I really really wish we could separate “Search” from the other F-key interact-talk-greet-use actions.
Wow, a lot of people putting their entire memoirs up.
I bought it cuz my gf really wanted it. She played UO then GW1 and Rift.
I got excited about GW2 cuz of the manifesto, the not-til-it’s-ready hype. :p
Bank slots, character slots
Most disappointing as far as value – I bought some BL keys for the chests. They’ve since improved the chests, but for me if it were 50 gems per key, I might get a couple again. If they were 25 per key, I’d feel that’s the real fair value.
Apparently they’ve relaxed the previous nerf to story mode pay-offs. I re-ran dungeons today that I’d got horrible rewards from before (such as less than a silver at lvl 44), and got decent payout.
It’s not so bad the way it is. At least not the punishment it was before.
What I’ve noticed universally, is guildmates are better than pug, no matter the time.
“Classes” in DnD and its copycats are called “Professions” in GW2
I like so many of them, it’s hard to decide which is favorite. I like Ele a lot, very active. I like my ranger, too, even tho it’s just about the opposite in play style.
I don’t see any benefit in this. The maps (sadly) never change, so once you learn them, you’ve learned them.
Edit: oh you just want easy-mode 100%? c’mon and grow a pair, it’s not that hard. If your server’s getting trounced this week, it means next week you’ll be up against easier opponents and can get your 100% then.
Ugghh… not a good plan.
We have too many botters taking up queue spots as it is.
Why do you want to penalize people for forming up good teams? It’s just backwards from warfare concepts.
If you want balance and fair fights, do sPvP. It’s skill-based (and a lot of fun).
WvW, the devs have said, is only balanced by the cap # of players. It’s meant to be a big sandbox. (albeit a big sandbox with arrow carts and trebuchet)
I believe there should be something that you get for winning, cuz otherwise the “smart” strategy would be to take objectives and let them go right away so you can at least get some karma and coin from retaking.
Now whether the orb buff is the best choice, I agree there’s some legit complaints.
I was alt-tabbed when an enemy thief came upon me (and I don’t even have full exotic gear yet) and still was unable to kill me 1v1, ended up stealth fleeing. That made me think the buff might be too much.
How bout 2 orbs make you get 2 x Badges of Honor and 3 orbs make you get triple per drop? That wouldn’t affect the gameplay, but would encourage people to keep trying for orbs.
I think it’s ok to give points as you go. So often we get that pop-up to switch teams, or games just die out when you’re pugging.
Average for the team, I dunno. It does suck to get a win and earn less than 100 cuz you were making sure you win. Even without a shared-average scoring system I had a couple afk teammates last night.
It will get botted, cuz it’s such an easy game to bot. Whether it’s bot for hire or people just doing it themselves, from what I’ve seen in other games pvp mini-games are notorious for afk-farming.
If half the points we earn go to fund non-contributing brainless teammates, it wouldn’t do well for the health of the game.
It can be interesting. Group battles tend to be about aoe attacks at range and use of siege. So be sure to equip something for range, even if that’s not how you usually like to play. Have speed boost, condition/stun removal on your tool bar. If you don’t like dying and running back, be sure to always have teammates in btween you and the enemy.
As a server, Sanctum of Rall is an awesome place with a very nice story, a testament to how some of the ANet people are very community-minded.
In game on the battlefield, I can assure you there’s no talk of vindictiveness or trying to ruin anyone’s fun (except the bots).
I think every player, no matter the server, just wants to have fun.
Mulch figgers a commander can take a vacation from commanding if s/he only has one book.
The thing is a commander is sort of a brand name. On my server we love Mara. But if Mara’s book appeared on some new character, we’d not recognize her.
I think the biggie as far as things like achieves for that is filling the graphic on your character select screen.
Grats on your weapon!
Longer fights aren’t harder in a game with no mana-management. Not more fun. Not more challenging. Just longer.
The story quest is only a slice of the game. You can’t hope for it to carry you to 80 without doing some of the other activities (gathering/crafting, WvW, DEs, dungeons, exploration, renown hearts, killing monsters).
I agree with Algreg.
Too frequently already in GW2 we see ANet adding in some new restriction in an attempt to cover up a problem. Whether it’s nerfing a class cuz of a graphics glitch, adding buggy DR code instead of securing the game against bots, …
Specifically – this suggestion would block guilds from gathering funds for commander books, would stop me from cooperating with my family members, and we’d still have 3rd party RMT, bots, and all that comes with.
To add another tier (what’d it be, ultra-legendary?) would violate all they’ve promised about gear in this game and GW1 too.
‘course they also said "when it’s ready"…
It’d be nice to have free travel to dungeons.
But it’s not hard to make groups of your own.
Has ANet ever said what the cap is and how it applies?
The bots are a nuisance, and seem immune to queues. They plague all the pve in this game. And I’m beginning to wonder if they’re in my pvp matches too (would explain apparently brainless players…) :p
Compared to pvp, it’s remarkably less strategic of fighting style in general, even tho it’s the same game. AoE at 1200 range is so much of the fight.
It’s the same issue for attackers, too.
I think the design, especially for “casual” players, encourages you to diversify your sources of gear. Get a piece or two of karma gear, get a piece or two of badges gear, get drops, maybe get dungeon gear, TP or craft it yourself.
The economy design has these four currencies (not counting pvp). WvW is really good for gold and karma. Badges are slower to accumulate. If “casual” means not gonna grind for what you want, then you have to take what you can get. You can always gem-store a pile of gold and get it from the trading post.
Mix-n-match is the theme for casual.
I still don’t get it. It works fine in spvp. Yet small groups or even 1v1 in WvW and the stealth lasts way too long.
What I’m really frightened of (and not just cuz I spvp thief) is that ANet will nerf thiefs more and more instead of fixing the rendering bug.
Cuz if it worked as intended, people wouldn’t have a problem with it.
Actually I really like the downed state as a design element, especially in sPvP, but also in pve-ish things.
I like it for strategy, where I can let myself go down knowing I’ll rally when my buddy (or I) finishes a target.
I like it for realism. It’s silly that someone can take 20k of damage with no ill effects at all, and then suddenly they take that last hit and go down. Every death is an immersion breaker. Died, except no I’m fine just inexplicably in a different place, full health and everything.
Since WvW is so heavily about gates and walls and siege equipment, it seems like some progressive weakening would be cool there, too. If a gate would go to partial down state, where you could shoot thru it, say, or people could inch thru it one at a time, before it’s completely cleared like it was never there.
The one class that does have to manage mana (initiative) gets frequent criticisms that all you do is spam heart-seeker.
The recent big nerf to rangers (who weren’t outperforming by anyone’s reckoning) was to discourage shortbow users just hitting 1 and 2, or just 1.
ANet wants you to use your cooldowns. They want it so that if you use a really good skill, you can’t choose to use it again for a while, and they want direct control over how long it takes to refresh.
And the best thing about Charrlie is no subscription!! :p
I bet they couldn’t get the graphic to look good enough.
I don’t have hard stats, but it seems to me that loot drops are 3/8 light 3/8 medium and 1/4 heavy. So it works out fine the way it is.
I don’t think it’s unfair, anymore than it’s unfair that there’s twice as many warriors as necros.
It’s fun to think of dragoons or what they might like to add in the future. I think there’s a lot of work to get the starting 8 working to their best, yet.