Guild Wars 2

Zin.6170:

nekretaal.6485:

Master of Corruption and lesser Signet of Vampirism are very disappointing.

I don’t think lesser signet is disappointing.

They stated it would have a 15 or 20 second cooldown. If you add in signets of suffering it is reduced to 12-16 seconds. Add in the 2 seconds it will take to activate it and you can apply it every 14-18 seconds.

Lesser signet is disappointing. Signets of Suffering is good. But Lesser Vampirism should stand on its own.

If there are only 5 available procs, shared with your teammates, then you will heal for almost nothing.

Even in a 1v1 situation, you cant get all 5 procs yourself (and the problem is made worse by the fact that if you are taking this trait, you probably aren’t taking dagger, which means that you will be lucky to get two proc).

A siphon that only hits for, say, 400, has a 20 second cooldown, and is gated by two preconditions before it even works is among the very worst traits in the game for all classes.

The trait should do something if you take it and not depend on taking another trait to do something.

How about changing vulnerability to Blind?

Master of Corruption and lesser Signet of Vampirism are very disappointing.

Consume Conditions!

You still need the condition removal.

You’ll want to take a sustain trait to get back some of the healing that we just lost.

I’m unimpressed.

Although the idea of a buff tied to condition spamming is interesting, it is just a numbers buff at the end of the day. Hopefully duration stacking (you give weakness to a target with weakness), still gives you buff stacks.

Anet seems to think that a GM trait is worth +150 stat points and an additional bonus (see eg lingering curse). Will you have 150 stat points worth of bonus most of the time? (Probably not who you need it, like when you have to cast consume conditions after recovering from being stunned).

Nothing necromancer will be meta (but nothing Necromancer is meta now).

Power builds will have the same play style as today’s 6/2/0/0/6, but they essentially have a whole another line for free (if they were taking targeted wells). Big buff. Even Spite is not must take anymore, so freely add debuffing, unholy sanctuary, or blood utility into your power build.

Condition builds are also mostly unchanged. They also got the +150 condition damage LC to pair with terror. If they truly needed boon conversion, they’ll need spite and signets now.

I don’t think that, other than gimmicky signet builds, we got anything too original (depends on the numbers in the blood line). I don’t think we have the healing scaling or might generation to run celestial (which would be a game changer).

We’ll all eat the consume condition nerf but still take it because of bad alternatives.

Sometimes buffs are Curses.

Dhuumfire for example.

That new Mesmer f5 for example. Every Mesmer skill is going to be balanced as if it could be spammed twice in a row.

A lot of people think Engineer’s healing turret is OP now. And they are getting essentially another one. Does this affect their healing budget?

A lot of engineers are salivating to proc elite runes, like Lyssa runes, basically on demand by swapping to new mortar kit. Once players start doing this for on demand conditions to boons, something’s getting nerfed, and with ANET’s history it will not be the kit or the runes. It will be something random.

Just look at what the new master of corruption did to all of our corruptions.

OP stuff is OP stuff. If the new stuff is actually OP, they will get whacked. Whoever designs Necromancers may not have pull to get stuff done, but I guarantee you that whoever designs warriors does have pull. After Anet gets its HoT sales, some of the new OP stuff is going to get other stuff nerfed hard.

Don’t Lyssa Runes also convert conditions to boons?

That gives great access to boon conversion to anybody with a low cooldown elite.

Hell. No. We need our dodges.

What he said.

It isn’t so great for the necromancer alone (you probably want another trait if you’re being selfish), but it is good for your teammates. (Although its still laughable compared to a pot of lifesteal food).

I don’t know condition Necromancers are complaining.

You take the plague signet proc, terror, and lingering curse. That’s a solid build.

If you really needed the path of corruption, you’ve got boon converting signets in the spite line. (& You will appreciate not porting youself into melee every time you death shroud). The other trait, Master of Corruption, is so problematic that I imagine some sort of fix will come down the line.

Until then you eat the change to the heal and try to get the lost healing back with a sustain tràit somewhere.. The heal was at that cooldown at one point not too long ago. We managed.

Cooldown traits are boring.

I thought Anet was removing cooldown traits.

In this instance Master of Corruption is quite literally a tax on using corruptions. The post trait cooldowns are basically what we have now (except for plague), and all of the corruptions were nerfed to make this the case.

The trait does nothing interesting.

And most of the corruptions are objectively bad skills.

Somebody at anet still thinks that conditioning ourselfs is some sort of buff (only if we had shoutbow level access to condition transfer)

AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE AXE

Resistance kills all of our:

(1) “Active defense is debuffing”
(2) Condition Damage
(3) Makes players almost totally immune to our down state

Resistence is almost like Berzerker Stance. Its really strong. This conversion is bad.

And what about the reverse? Resistance seems really rare. We’re almost never going to get chills (necessary for all of the reaper’s minor traits) from converting boons.

No it wolnt. Trash mobs near bosses die too fast in the AoE “Soup”

If WvW keeps were changed to have 2 keep lords instead of one keep lord, then epidemic would be OK. Not good, Just ok (players would kite the bosses away from each other).

Linnael.1069:

Spectrals are too strong already. Banshee’s wail is good and interesting as is.
.

It has a unique buff like spectrals and generates a ton of life force like spectrals.

If it was a spectral effect, the skill need not be changed to be like spectral walk and armor (lich wasn’t), but you would get a duration and cooldown buff. Instead of Banshee;s wail, you would get half of banshee’s wail by taking the spectral trait.

Lordrosicky.5813:

And the unhoky santctuary proc now will be like two lives. It procs and we then siphon back to 5k health and get to our heal. Madness. Its is totally broken. We need to play a ton for a month or so before they hotfix it

I’ve been playing with Unholy Sanctuary for months now.

About half of the time it effectively does zero (I was going to die and still die 2 seconds later). If you die because you are immobilized, for example.

About 25% of the time it actually does zero. It doesn’t activate, because It activates at the same I was about to enter death shroud, and so my death shroud push actually causes exit shroud and I die with a big bar of Death Shroud. Spikes damage, lag, and proper DS use as defense causes this to happen a LOT.

But the 25% chance to get away and heal up with the bad on paper regen is pretty good. I suspect that in actual gameplay, since siphons take time and you to make hits (and stay in danger), that the extra healing from siphoning makes less difference than you think.

On the other Hand, Unholy Sanctuary is legit OP when you would otherwise be getting killed while in Lich Form/ Plague.

Not in PvP.

Even if we had 100% immunity to damage, we still have sucky mobility and bad access to stability. It would be trivial to decap/knock us off point.

Not in PvE

No immunities to the IHKO bosses, no reflects, and 3rd tier DPS.

First of all, curses is going to be great for anybody with precision (eg zerkers).

Second, the jury’s out on the new blood line. So much depends on what the healing values are, and on which traits will heal you in Death shroud (all of them should heal you, not all of them will heal you).

If the whole line still heals less than food, you can ignore it for another 3 years.

What about totally removing Banshee’s wail (as it is mostly just a boring cooldown trait) and instead making locust swarm a spectral effect?

Bhawb.7408:

You already sacrifice all existing minions…

.. and you already lose your spectral effects…

Nobody gets sarcasm/trolling anymore. Let me state it clearly:

They added a sacrifice to a skill that already had a fairly major sacrifice. The addition, even if thematically, was unnecessary.

A lot of people are upset that Plague now self Bleeds.

In particular it punishes Condition Builds with thousands or tens of thousands of bleeding damage, which is really terrible on a skill that already does terrible damage and has no clears. Reduced Cooldown triggers additional conditions (probably an extra bleed).

But, on the other had, if Plague is going to be a corruption, it has to have a self sacrifice. Vulnerability stacks defeat the whole point of Plague, Chill or Cripple or Immobilize make you useless, Pulsing Fear would be lols (You have stability so it doesn’t do anything unless you get stripped or transfer the fear), and Burning or poison is even worse than Bleed.

What if your corruption doesn’t make you self condition, what if this corruption makes you sacrifice, instead of a condition, things more valuable than a condition.

Here is My suggested Fix
———

Plague: (Corruption)

When you cast Plague, you must sacrifice

(1) All of your existing Minions, AND
(2) All of your existing spectral effects

My Idea is very new and nobody has thought about this before. Please let me know if this would make the skill too unbalanced in PvP or PvE with Plauge’s already long cooldown.

No thanks. At this way, at least a capped Epidemic can be properly balanced.

Anyways the problem with epidemic is that it just doesn’t work the way conditions are setup. By the time you notice a target has conditions and is in range to spread and do the long cast, the conditions are gone or somebody has moved.

Nobody uses Epidemic because it sucks and Epidemic holds us back. Even in Pve, Bosses don’t have adds, so it’s not useful.

A balanced useable Epidemic can be something less powerful, but something that actually does something in a 1v1 situation.

1. No
2. Yes

(1) Is Traited Signet of the locust = AoE path of corruption OP? If no please state why (hint, axe 3 has AoE ripped boons forever and the skill still is terrible). If yes, then the signet trait gets an internal cool down. Is the trait worthless if a long internal cool down prevents your long cool down signets from working correctly?

(2) Are we all going to be running golem now if we don’t take spectral mastery and aren’t a WvW zergling?

(2a) What’s the best way to build craft off the extra 2-3k damage we’ll be taking just to use Plague?

(3) Why did epidemic get its cool down nerfed when nobody was using it? Because somebody at anet realized it exists?

(4) Which master trait in Death Magic should I take? My choices are a minion trait that doesn’t work, an underpowered once in 60s defense against stun, and a boring power stat increase that doesn’t really work with any of the existing armors.

(5) Gates Assassin was very proud that he got us a 10% damage buff instead of that awful previewed axe training. But how trolling is it that a bunch of necromancers will take axe training with no axe? ( please anet fix axe)

(6) Does fact that the main guardian condition cleanse converts chill into Resistence (and all of the other nerfs to chill) hard counter the Reaper out of the meta before it even exists?

(7) Condition Duration seems really important to add, since a bunch of the previewed traits on other classes reduce condition duration passively. How do I best add condition duration to my build? And how in Pvp?

(8) With the changes to exotic armor, your choice of stats ascended armor seems really important, since it’s so expensive. Which choice offers the best flexibility for PvE / WvW.

(9). The great thing about poison is that it screws with healing & especially downed healing. Do you think that more intense, short non stacking duration poison turns out to be a killer nerf against passively healing warriors and Elementalists. Is this the big condimancer nerf that nobody’s noticing?

(10) What do you think about Reaper/Death Shroud skills sharing traits? Does this limit our build variety to have traits that dont work the same in both shrouds?

For example: Path of Corruption is great in Death Shroud, but will never land in Reper shroud against a moving enemy. Dhuumfire is awful for Death shroud, but might be Ok for reapers.

(11). Will blood healing be good? Will blood necromancers be as good as banner warriors at rezzing players?

(12). How many of our healing traits will not heal because of death shroud?

The big problems are still:

(1) No scaling defenses
(2) No defense against ranged
(3) Bad access to defense against CC & immobilize spam
(4) Bad weapon skills
(5) No mobility, even while broken z axis teleports rule Pvp.

These trait changes were never going to fix that.

But I’m very excited about the new curses line. Anybody who builds precision is going to love it. I think we’ve got two decent trait lines now (Soul Reaping and Curses).

Blood depends on the numbers. We’ll see if it turns out to be good. But anet seemed to abandon “necromancer sustain is life force.” for every build. That’s progress. Its a big deal if healing power and celestial can work on necromancer. That’s something that can work if numbers are tweaked (easy).

Spite is a mess. There is a signet trait that looks good on paper but sucks if there is any kind of internal cool down (but signets are awful). There’s chill of death competing against a troll axe trait (how ironic is it that a bunch of people who ont use axe will take axe training). The rest is garbage or boring.

Then there’s death.

Death looks really weak.

(1) Soul Comprehension still exists,

(2) look at your choices of master traits: (1) A boring toughness to power stat increase that synergizes with zero existing armors/amulets (2) a super long cool down stun to fear proc [hideously underpowered compared to, say, stability on dodge] and (3) a minion trait that doesn’t reliably work.

(3) look at your GM traits: (1) Unholy Sanctuary, which I think is fantastic but is controversial around here, (2) a minion trait, and (3) a convoluted trait where you can get a boring minor stat increase if you spam conditions.

It just looks cheap.

Players who link .HoT (instead of starting new) should get a character slot

Players who spend the extra $20 should get something cosmetic like a new exclusive gemstore armor. (The glider doesn’t really count because we all know that better gemstore gliders will arrive).

Players who spend the $100 should get something, anything, other than just a one time semi discount on gem purchases.

2 seconds of Resistence is way too much.

Chill converting to Resistence on Guardian’s main condition clear kills the Reaper before the Reaper even exists.

It should be one second. Resistence is really strong. Why can’t taunt follow the same (silly) rules as fear and convert to Resistence?

Yeah, I don’t think you’ve got the raw output or raw variety to compete as a “pure” conditionmancer against the shout bows, or guardians.

Or the DPS/defenses to match up against the celestial classes that output dhuumfire-like condition traits like Engineer or Elementalists.

The transfers and Death shroud absorption used to give you the edge against pure condition users, and still help. But those builds are stronger, while our tools are weaker, and those builds aren’t really in the meta these days.

The existing blood magic minor trait causes your mining/logging/gathering skills to fail and give you “ruined log.” if you get hit.

The new trait is an improvement over that.

Anyways, last week we were complaining. “my regeneration from blood magic minor traits doesn’t do anything if I activate my profession mechanic.”

I think anet is trying to, ahem, dodge that issue.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

THANK YOU somebody who knows how our traits and utilitys work. all this forum hate is incredible and annoying no wonder we dont get fixes/changes. if u are a dev and the only thing u get form a certain profession forum is hate would you read all of it to find some constructive criticism?

If a skill can’t stand on its own without traits/runes/sigils, then the skill isn’t good.

Nerfed Lich has the problem that the duration is too short, casting lich has aftercast, the cast times of all skills is too long & skill are interrupted at the end.

Also QoL issues like not being able to stomp.

Nerfed lich will only be useful in builds using a Specific trait in a specific trait line.

That wouldn’t be so bad, but the alternatives are nerfed plague or nerfed (in the previous patch) golem.

I’m like really happy right now, that my suggestion for anet not to kill withering precision was taken seriously.

The changes, including nerfs and power creep to everybody else, are still soo much better than the original changes. The worst complaints today, other than the nerfs to skills, are either (1) "my [already dead] condition build has to change even though anet said that everybody’s build would have to change or (2) “so many good traits in the curses and soul reaping lines, which do I choose?”.

(People really should be complaining about an underpowered death line [the master traits are awful] and looking closely at the numbers in the blood line [necromancer should get a benefit from taking healing power]).

& the core, unfixable design flaws still remain.

But, They did listen to us.

Gates Assassin delivered.

I think the turning point was Abjured losing that Pvp tournament because the other team focused the necromancer, who had no defense or support. That’s why anet finally decided to do something.

Did he deliver enough? Probably not. And the reaper looks bad.

But somebody did real work on the class. That’s a start.

Most of HoT should be available to you.

Stronghold
WvW
Updates to every map and jump puzzle in the game

These suggestions to not get you anyplace near solving problems.

(1) Some sort of defense against ranged projectiles needs to exist.
(2) Axe needs to get fixed (up the damage on 1, put a blast finisher on 3)
(3) Immobilize stacking needs to disappear, or necromancer condition removal needs buffs
(4) Base scepter condition durations need to increase. Lingering curse should be removed as a trait.
(5) Sustain is healing. Life force is not healing. If anet can buff real sustain (not life force), then necromancers have the option of taking celestial and not being at such a severe stat disadvantage. The easy way I o this is to allow healing in death shroud.
(6) Some sort of team support needs to exist
(7) z-Axis ports needs to be fixed, or everybody needs access to them. Increasing the casting range of flesh Wurm is good enough.

I do question the business decision of opening preorders in the same day everybody is upset, because they’ll have to change their builds. (even the professions that got big buffs are upset they’ll need to change their builds).

Look, I was a bad patch for us, but OP is right a lot of stuff looks good.

(1). Anet listened to us. The previously previewed traits were beyond garbage. These are improvements.

(2) Curses is looking pretty great now for condition users and non condition users. Even the justifiably complaining condimancers are saying ‘I have to choose between great traits.’.

That’s good. Now get the other subpar trait lines up to par.

(3). Somebody put some work/thought into the blood line. If the changes fail, then somebody who presumably has a professional reputation failed.

All of the ‘Res allies’ traits combined aren’t as good as warrior banner or guardian bubble, but somebody is out there doing real work on the line. We didn’t get a blood balance of "we’re going to change 2+3 =5 into 3 + 2 = 5.

Put it this way, if necromancer sustain traits, combined are good enough that necromancers can use celestial, then that’s a game changer.

Previously, anet philosophy was necromancer sustain = life force. One of the problems with that was healing power was useless and that put every necromancer at a big stat disadvantage vs celestial. The blood traits, if they work, could fix a big issue with the class.

(4).* Team support, does it exist now? *.

The life siphon buff only works if your allies are getting more damage than you’re nerfing yourself.

Boon conversion buffs still aren’t as good as boon rip on autoattack (and booms are absent fom PvE).

Blood is power looks ok next to the zero cast time “for great justice,” but groups with an elementalist that stack 18 mights with 20s duration are going to get mad at you for overwriting long duration might with short duration might.

(5) Vigor Nerf and boon Conversion changes are good.

Not all of the changes are good. The poison changes gut all of our non scepter builds, and the chill changes (especially chill converts to resistance) seem to bury the reaper. (Reapers look really weak). But the vigor nerf is nice.

(6). The new Signet trait is good if it doesn’t have an internal cool down.

When it gets an internal coolown, toss it into the scrap heap.

A while back, they teased changes to jumping puzzles… Adding things like timers and leaderboards to them.

At first I just thought this was elaborate corporate PR speak for “we’re nerfing players who sit their character at the jumping puzzle chest and never move it.”

But if this is a serious addition, then Spectral walk had to go. OFC, spectral walk is nothing compared to portal guns and rocket books when it comes to abusing jump puzzles.

Not to mention the use of Spectral Walk BASE jumping to “break” the HOT maps.

The real problem is that this class doesn’t do a lot of cool things and they are constantly being nerfed.

Also 2s of resistance is a LOT.

Resistence is basically berzerker stance. That shouldn’t be thrown around lightly.

Back when everybody thought taunt would convert to chill, nobody as worried: the two are equal in power.

But chill has a lot of problems if everybody’s going to get a chill removal trait AND it doesn’t affect leaps AND the cooldown part doesn’t affect thieves, mostly doesn’t affect revenants and is laughed off by low cooldown classes like warriors.

Neither of these needed nerfs, but we’ll live.

We had CC at that cooldown before we’ll get used to it. Vulnerability, even so many stacks, is still terrible. The worst part is that the condition will prevent us from getting OOC.

We got 2 extra major traits from the update. One of them will have to be condition removal or sustain.

Will be interesting to see how the blood traits scale. (Most of us expect terribad healing/scaling)

Also which healing traits work in shroud.

If they are less than truly awful, and celestial makes sense, then that’s a game changer.

If you’re going plague, like really doing plague even traiting chilling darkness, then you are probably in WvW.

Purity sigil or Generousity sigil is already a good idea because immobilize spam kills you. Now it will clear bleed stacks or other condition spam.

The lich nerf is the one that hurts. Casting lich has an aftercast, leaving lich interrupts your skill, and all of the skills are long cast time. If lich is only going to be 16s their cast times should get looked at.

Let’s be clear. These nerfs aren’t why necromancers are deader than dead.

We had that cool down on consume conditions before, and vulnerability is weak. We’ll still use it. Cliff jumping generated a “is this an exploit” thread every week, and is a generous price to pay for anet fixing broken teleports (if that happens).

Necromancers are dead because:

No defense against range — new ranged specialties and rangers get 1500 base!

Relies on debuffs instead of movement — Debuffs got nerfed, removal got buffed, and Resistence!

Ping Pong Ball

Sitting duck against Immobilize Spam — Immobilize stacking didn’t get fixed!

Bad group support — Here have some 2nd tier Ressing skills and boon removal! (signet removal is worse than boon removl on autoattack by far)

Long cast-time long cool down heals — now nerfed!

Axe is the worst weapon in the game!

Wait for anet to reveal the internal cool down on the signet trait before you get excited.

Signet of the locust is not going to be an AoE path of Corruption.

If the internal cool down is too high (more than 5 seconds) the build won’t work.

The future is to build precision (Curses is the 2nd best line after SR now).

The other future us to build Condition duration (you need to build this because of passive duration reduction the other classes have). Traveler and Nightmare Runes have 10% duration.

From there you build power and play essentially the same as today, take signet traits and boon hate, or run minions. If you want to pure conditionmancer, you probably don’t have the tools. If you want to celestial… The exact numbers and scaling on the blood traits will be important.

Rym.1469:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/1-Corruptions-Do-we-need-them/

Here’s a whole topic of Corruption discussion.

They gave us more self-inflicted conditions and have not changed Life Blast to Plague Blast. That’s GG right off the bat.

Yeah we talked about this last week,

The big necromancer issue

Necromancer doesn’t have enough condition removals to deal with a celestial engineer/elementalist/Warrior constantly tossing garbage conditions at them. In addition there exists more immobilize spam than a necromancer can remove (a problem that will get worse when reapers start chill spam).

Becuase there’s not enough removal to keep up with conditions, we have to use consume conditions.

Because there’s not enough removal to keep up, corruption skills and unholy martyr look silly. Why add conditions to a class that is overwhelmed by them?

The other issue is that a lot of corruptions are bad.

Corrupt Boon — Good but inadequate to keep up ith boon spam

Epidemic — Bad and just got nerfed, unless new PvE bosses have adds, this was uncalled for

Corrosive Poison Cloud — Bad and Poison changes amount to a big nerf for this skill. (it will do more damage if somebody sits in the cloud, but will not stack duration preventing full heals on players who run out of the cloud. Why couldn’t it pulse longer duration poison?

Plague — this shoud be a well not a corruption

Blood is power — now a second tier group support skill, but we lost 2 might stacks.

Consume Conditions — Shoulnt have been nerfed, but we all still have to take it.

Op is just wrong.

First consume conditions is not dead. We have nothing to replace it with but garbage, o it lives.

Second, Axe training was not a nerf. The 10% buff just needs vulnerability, not axe.

Axe needs to be fixed. Necromancer gonna start taking axe training with no axe now.

Inb4 Reapers get nerfed to not have cleave without the trait.

Unholy fervor — should apply o everything, not just axe

Lingering curse — you should be able to add condition duration on top of this to get, in effect 4x duration. The 150 condition damage should apply to all condition ticks while you have a scepter

No idea on the others.

Ressing is team support, but the undeath signet is still awful and the rest of the Ressing traits combined aren’t as good as the warrior banner

(….. Or even the guardian bubble).

The best new support trait is the signet/boon removal trait. 2 boons converted per signet (& is this AoE for locust signet? Probably not which is a shame as an internal cool down probably exists). Plus bonus signet activations from in 2 different lines.

That’s pretty good. Not as good as autoattack boon rip, but possible to do from range.

Confederates, I thought this thread was going to be about secession from these nerfs.

We had consume condition on this cool down before, we weren’t that much more terrible.

Vulnerability is horrible. We’ll eat this change.

When we all don’t swap heals or take the trait (and none of us will do either), maybe anet will finally look at our other heals

(bone minion should heal when it dies from damage, signet of vampirism should have a lower cast time, we shoul have some blasts to interact with well of blood’s field, the reaper shout heal should cast faster and heal for more)