Guild Wars 2

I just want to give a complete thumbs up to Ascii’s build. I’ve been using it for about a week in WvW and I love it. I’m on a small pop server and often find myself in small skirmishes (10v.15, 2v.3) and also in small groups facing large zergs (hopelessly outnumbered usually). I always manage to do well, and that’s saying a lot since I’m not a PvP’er. I love this in comparison to playing my hammer/GS warrior – it’s so much more fun and effective.

Thanks for posting the build. It is awesome.

Charak.9761:

Honestly the only endgame at this point is WvW but its unenjoyable when you face stacked servers.

This. WvW is the only exciting thing but i’m not on a T1 server…getting murdered by 10 to 1 – over and over and over – is frustrating. Tonight on one BL map we could not even get out of home base. Why are the matchups to lopsided????

Rose got a new look with mix-n-match armor and a meaner helm for WvW.

Dante.1508:

Charak.9761:

It doesn’t need a nerf.

Everything else needs a buff to be in the same time vs. reward ratio

This is whats needed, and less focus on the economy and more focus on enjoyment is whats needed.

I’ve played hundreds of mmos and never have i seen a game so obsessed with its Auction house and its Economy like GW2 is, its literally drained all the enjoyment out of this game..

I’m beginning to agree with you on this.

If number of gems purchased influenced precursor drops i would have several by now….instead i have never seen one.

Have you even done a LS event in the last 2 months???? Obviously not. ANet is instilling the zerg mentality in every new LS and the seasons in wvw. Get a clue will you?

AND all the people who are decrying farming should not play this game, as it’s clearer than daylight that is what ANet is making us do, and you need not look any further than their zerg-fest LS content.

I’m actually going to refrain from GUESSING as to why some people hate champ trains (obviously, if some train people were abusive that would cloud your assessment) because I’m tired of all the generalizations put forth by both sides of this. I still say, if you don’t want to do something, then don’t. But I’m not going to say “Joe shouldn’t get this because I don’t agree with it” or “Jenny doesn’t play the game RIGHT because I don’t play that way”. Enough with selfish attitudes please.

I’m just going to add that so many people here do not understand economics; specifically supply and demand.

Here’s an example: I love the new twilight arbor weapons (Ilex of Dreams, etc). They are expensive. Why? Because there is little supply and lots of demand.

Inflation, on the other hand, determines how far your money goes. If you don’t think TP flippers help drive inflation, you’re wrong. Regardless of the gold they must pay to list an item, if they get an item for “free” in a dungeon drop, and list it on the TP for 345g, they are adding cash to the economy. Obviously, not as much as could be because of the fees paid, but still LOTS. Way, WAY more than I would ever make running the champ train.

These two things work together to increase prices. Most of the gold I could make from champ farming comes from selling mats on the TP as well, not just silver from the chests. I’m not selling my stuff for 345g each. Give your head a shake if you think champ farming is the cause of your devalued in-game money.

Thank you for the help Attack! I don’t feel I need to stick with the mace. I think I’ll try sword for a while and see if I get better results. Good advice on the traits, thank you

Cogbyrn.7283:

AttackAttack.8917:

Here is a short clip from last night, this isn’t a large zerg on either part but the idea is the same. http://www.twitch.tv/attack__attack/c/3213050

Move up to the front line and try to stun as many people as possible, knockdown, dps and then get back to your backline to regen a bit. Use Earthshaker to blast finish combo fields, I generally try and blast water/healing fields first. Rinse and repeat.

We ended up losing the tower in this clip, it’s just an example of how hammer is utilized.

Note that it excels more with choke points (top of stairs going up to the lords room for example).

Dat music. Very much enjoyed the tunes on this video.

Anyway, that’s basically the jist. You come flying in, AoE stun, AoE knockback, conal snare, grab some attention, then vanish back through your line. People want to target the person who just dove into them, so having stability on hand is definitely preferred, and Zerker Stance helps you shrug off any conditions that tried to get spammed/are on the ground everywhere all the time.

At least that’s the style I’ve used, but I like my mobility. If you want a more conservative style since you’re using Mace/WH, you could still dive, but make it more controlled. With a GS as the secondary you can get wild with it, but if you make sure to use your WH to cleanse properly, keep your vigor up, and block a shot or so with the Mace, you could launch in with the Hammer, cause some disarray, apply some more central stun with the Mace, then roll your way out. It’ll be riskier, but that’s what I envision your ZvZ will look like.

That being said, I’d recommend a Sword MH if you want to use a WH, for the mobility (as was mentioned). Being able to bust out of a Zerg is part of the key to survival in diving in with the Hamme-Hamme-Hammer.

Thanks for the advice. I’m pretty good with the GS so maybe I’ll try that with the hammer. I can try a few different things I guess

AttackAttack.8917:

Here is a short clip from last night, this isn’t a large zerg on either part but the idea is the same. http://www.twitch.tv/attack__attack/c/3213050

Move up to the front line and try to stun as many people as possible, knockdown, dps and then get back to your backline to regen a bit. Use Earthshaker to blast finish combo fields, I generally try and blast water/healing fields first. Rinse and repeat.

We ended up losing the tower in this clip, it’s just an example of how hammer is utilized.

Note that it excels more with choke points (top of stairs going up to the lords room for example).

Thanks for the clip! I never thought I should run in and then book it to heal. Seems so obvious now :p

OK, here is my current build…. sorry for the delay, been a long, long day :p

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIEQNBiSDbk0p4N4RFiJOggeohVBXcUoEAoSxcYHA-jEFBYLw4LBCnJZ0yQEHAkIw0IJL9pIaslRFRjV1ATVCRZCV7CQ/CSFD2OOQG0weDIuDouEYyAwMGA-w

OK, I will post my build when I get home from work tonight for sure! Thanks for the replies though!

I got so frustrated with my hammer build that I ended up switching to my rifle and mace/WH, but actually got admonished by a guildmate and told I should be using the hammer so I really want to make a try of it.

Hi all,

I’ve recently started using (or trying to use) a hammer and mace/WH build in WvW. I use this almost excusively for zergs. However, I haven’t used hammer before. My PvE build was rifle and …. anything but hammer and LB basically. I usually went with axe/mace or GS.

Anyway, I find when in WvW zerg fighting I’m fairly useless because I have no idea how to fight with my build. I feel slow and clunky when using the hammer. Can anyone please tell me how they use their hammers so I can at least try some stuff out? I realize that experience will help, but my server is always under-manned in WvW so I kind of need to get better as fast as possible. I’ve tried watching some videos but I have a hard time seeing everything the people are doing at the same time.

I appreciate any assistance. Thanks!

Mainhand axe with offhand mace is great for PvE. Pair that with GS if you like it or go with a ranged weapon such as longbow or rifle. You can take that with you all the way to 80. None of that is suggested for WvW though – PvE only.

I’m 44 and I started playing this game because my kids got all hyped about it (they’re 19 and 22), which got me interested in what it was all about. I watched them play for a little bit and fell in love with the look of the game and the fact that in PvE, no other players can kill you; and in fact you can HELP other players. It seemed like such a cool invention… a game where you can play without fear of being pummeled to death constantly by other players!

Now, over a year later, I play every single day and my kids have mostly moved on – they both have PS3 consoles and more friends than I do – though they will log in every once in a while for a GW2 day with me. Neither of them has even one character up to level 80 yet! Now, I play WvW and am slowly learning how to fight other players, and that is making the game all new and exciting for me.

BTW I never was a gamer before this. Sure, I played Pac-Man and whatever in the old days, but never did play any game like this before. My kids are quite shocked I’ve turned into such a “gamer”.

Morrigan.2809:

I just wanted to say that this update is the first LS I have done/even looked at since SAB, not because I don’t like SAB btw.
I am also probably the only person who has no nodes in my home instance.

I just like to play fun content(for me): I loved the gauntlet, I hate zerg rushing/farming, I enjoyed teq, I don’t like repeating stuff over to tick a box.
I have been playing GW2 though and I have been having a very enjoyable time.

You’re not the only one without nodes. I have no idea what having a node in your home instance even means.

Qaelyn.7612:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Malediktus.9250:

I think they should nerf champ loot again to not drop champ loot from bosses if you didnt do at least 10-20% damage to it (open world only, dungeon stay as is)

I think they should nerf dungeon loot ‘cuz I don’t do dungeons.

It’s not about you and what you do or don’t do. I know, it’s hard to believe.

Yes, that’s the entire point of my post.

Uh….i just created my first male character yesterday. Am i the only one that thinks half of the very few faces for human males are actually copies of female faces? I think maybe there are 5 visually masculin faces. Very few options for hair as well…..many look like Justin Beiber….no….just…no. only reason i want a male toon is cuz heavy armor looks WAY better on males than females and i’m tired of looking at hook*r babe warriors.

Malediktus.9250:

I think they should nerf champ loot again to not drop champ loot from bosses if you didnt do at least 10-20% damage to it (open world only, dungeon stay as is)

I think they should nerf dungeon loot ‘cuz I don’t do dungeons.

Many things:

1. The sense of community on my server and in my guild. IoJ may be small but it’s really full of a lot of cool people.
2. The scenery. It still floors me how beautiful this game is.
3. I can play the game as a way to turn off my brain and relax (i.e. FGS champ farm) or get heart pounding fun in WvW roaming parties.
4. While time gating for a lot of things is annoying and probably stops me from striving for certain things, the daily and monthly APs are fairly easy to achieve and helps me feel rewarded just for signing in and having fun every day.
5. Playing dress up is fun and I can do it with many different characters and looks. Finding just the right sword to complete my look or maybe the perfect dye color is awesome.
6. You really can make it as hard or easy as you want, so can play however you feel like at any time.
7. No subscription fee – ANet does see a lot of my cash anyway with gem purchases – like, WAY too much of my cash.

I’m all the way on the other spectrum. I have RNG bad luck, so I never even open random dyes I get as drops in game, and I would not try to buy kits of the BL gem store, because I’d end up like the OP. I quickly determined the best thing is to sell all random dyes (at 23s each I’m sure I’ve made A LOT of gold doing that), and then buy the exact color I want. Seemed cheaper in the long run. If I ever decide to make a legendary I will not try the RNG show at the MF either – I will grind gold to buy a precursor as that seems more satisfying.

I am sorry about your luck, OP. I think this happens in the same way with precursors. I talked to a person this morning that had 2 dropped, while I have about 1000 hrs in and have seen zip. Ergo, one person buys 3 dye packs and gets 2 rare dyes while you open 75 and get 1. That stinks when you’re the one with bad luck.

Vayne.8563:

You have to make decisions sometimes. Let the game think for you, or think for yourself.

Well said, Vayne.

Overall I think it’s unfair of any specific person to determine what is FUN. Just because I don’t like PvP doesn’t give me the right to tell the developers to remove it from the game. We all enjoy different aspects of the game. Some people have never stepped foot in PvE, they are WvW players exclusively. Maybe we should cater to them and nerf or get rid of everything else?? Stop telling me how YOU think I SHOULD have FUN. I can determine that on my own, thank you.

Qaelyn.7612:

Every game developer has a vision of how they want the game to work. Part of that is balancing activities to encourage behavior they believe helps the game, and discourage behavior they feel is not what they want to see. I have a pretty strong feeling that they never put champions into the game with the idea of them being used in this manner, and so they are (very slightly) discouraging it.

If other areas of the game don’t provide good enough benefits then they should be increased for the same reason.

As a relatively new player, I can assure you that it’s a major turn-off to step into Queensdale and see a huge glob of high-level players obliterating so-called ‘champions’ in 10 seconds and constantly bickering with each other over what order the ‘champions’ should be obliterated. My first thought when I saw it was: ‘Is there any point even playing this game if this is what people do at cap?’ If I ran a game, that’s not the face I’d want to put forward to new players.

Be glad I don’t run this game, because I’d put a fractional multiplier every time the same champion is killed within a 24 hour period. Something like: you get full rewards the first time, then 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% and 0 after that until the next day.

No, DO blame the game. Time gating and grind is created by the developers. I would personally LOVE to feel rewarded for doing more stuff like dynamic events or WvW or whatever. But that doesn’t happen. That is not my fault. Nobody gets anything “worth” having in this game without grind bub.

Every time new conent comes out i check Dulfy.net to get a clue as to what’s going on since ANet never, ever gives any useful information. Based on what i learn fro Dulfy i decide i want to do the content or skip it. Sometimes, like with the LS going on now, i try it, it’s found to be another boring zergfest and i say screw it and go have actual fun in WvW.

It’s YOUR game. Play what you enjoy and ignore the rest. You get AP for PvP, and i lve getting AP, but i don’t do that because it’s not FUN.

Freja Af Wolffestar.1756:

+1 please remove, it has nothing to do there and please remove the JPs from the achivement.

Agree 100% …good post.

Ya you sure put people down fast. Can you please post your build?

Valandras.2093:

Trickster armor is epic, and so is having a Sensible Backpack!

That is an awesome mask!

beren.6048:

Fishbait.6723:

My guess would be that WvWs turned into nothing but a zerg fest, combined with the unbelievably stupid match setups they`re currently screwing over every player over with.
(http://mos.millenium.org/eu) ….

After months I come and try a bit of GW2 to find my server being matched up with 2 servers who are clearly 10 times more strong than us. WvW was no longer playable because where ever you go you ll find enemy zergs and all your people stop going to WvW, so now there is no zerg to run with. Matching up a rank 7 server with a rank 2 is just stupid.

Agree. My server is 100% of the time WAY outnumbered. I keep going because it’s the only thing interesting in this game. However the rest of the game is so grindy or costly that i am actually considering finally finishing skyrim.

So does it take skill to take down champs with 3-5 people? That’ s typical size of the “train” in FGS on my server.

I have done many dungeons and it seems that all it takes is practice to learn mechanics and path. First time through more skill required to make it through alive. Fiftieth time? No. Farming dungeons or champs makes no difference. If you do something more than one time…YOU are a farmer. I can’t even fathom how anyone sees a difference here.

PvP and WvW kills and survival take skill. Playing unpredictable opponents that think and react in different ways takes skill. Everything else is merely muscle memory.

Behellagh.1468:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Behellagh.1468:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Probably wouldn’t have happen so soon if the train wasn’t so possessive of the champs and bullied any who took out a champ out of order. I would imagine that it was a GM nightmare. And I’m sure that the worse were always just this side of what was considered banable conduct.

Maybe you should not assume all players are represented by the few who were rude.

I don’t but it only takes a few bad apples to sour the mash. Take any victory celebration that turns into a riot after the last game of a season or a big rivalry. Do you think a small army of law enforcement is needed if everyone just milled about celebrating? No it’s the few that equate victory as a license to cause property damage and other mischief.

Now if Anet had a visible rep in every train or at every champ spot waiting to hammer the few bad apples then maybe they would have left it alone but they simply don’t have the manpower to do this proactively.

It’s a large community of people. In any large community there are bad people, but usually I would assume the majority are good. I’ve said it so many times I get sick of pointing out the obvious… if someone is saying something that is abusive, to YOU, report it. That person should be held accountable for bad behaviour. However, that doesn’t mean the 30 people running around doing the same thing are all bad. ANet shouldn’t have to look over every shoulder. There is a good system here to report, and anyone can take a screen sheet of what was said and send it in.

In any case, the issue is nerf of champ boxes, which was done under the radar, which DOES seem to be usual for ANet in instances where they could assume the general player base will be VERY upset about the nerf (karma nerf anyone??). I agree with another poster. I used to believe people really just had the conspiracy theory mindset, but more and more I see that ANet seems to purposefully hold back the worst game changes. I no longer trust them at all.

Behellagh.1468:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Probably wouldn’t have happen so soon if the train wasn’t so possessive of the champs and bullied any who took out a champ out of order. I would imagine that it was a GM nightmare. And I’m sure that the worse were always just this side of what was considered banable conduct.

Maybe you should not assume all players are represented by the few who were rude.

Gorath.5076:

too few Norn in here

This is my fav male mesmer look! Looks like Vin Diesel … but scarier. Awesome!

Zplus.4217:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Anet does not believe farming is a valid way to play the game. This is an objective fact. There is 7 years of GW1 nerfs and 1 year of GW2 nerfs that follows this trend. If you are a farmer then Anet does not want you playing the game, end of story.

If you want to go out, do a bunch of different activities every day once a day then that is fine. But if you want to just run in circles and do the same thing over and over then Anet will make sure you are rewarded as little as possible.

I don’t know what you expected. I mean the reason people were running these trains 8 hours a day was because they knew it was too good to be true and was going to be nerfed. Now that it was nerfed everyone is “shocked and surprised” that their “legitimate” way of farming was nerfed. Just the same as CoF P1 was.

Rewards are slowly being balanced across the game now. Dungeon Path running, World Boss running, and champ trains are all about equal now. WvW is the one area that is lagging behind the most.

Is that the reason why we had Crown Pavilion and Scarlet’s Invasion, where in both cases offers waves after waves of mobs which encourages players to “just run in circles and do the same thing over and over”?

Exactly. ANet encourages the champ farm on one hand (LS) but then discourages the same thing so they can funnel you into THEIR idea of what you should be doing. I found the last 4 LS adds to be more tedious than anything else I’ve ever done in this game. Boring as all get out. At least with the group I did FGS with we had conversation and some social aspect and I could have my morning coffee and relax and enjoy it. The Scarlett invasions were the worst. WP here, WP there, get lost, get to the pirates, who cares about completing it? GET THE PIRATES… OMG where are the pirates???? Gimme a break. You think ANet is not completely turning this into a world-wide champ train? Open your eyes.

Zplus.4217:

Beldin.5498:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Yeah .. maybe its time to start a “nerf Dungeon rewards” Thread, since i don’t like Dungeons, so its time to nerf them also.

Especially the ones where people can just skip most of the stuff and get rewards for practically 0 skills. I wouldn’t really call that a fair reward system.

This, this and this. I guess “play your way” really means only if other people think it’s ok and they approve.

There are some great looking necros in here!

This is Dalila Darkness, reinvented. I wanted her to look really dark/scary.

We dont all have 6 hours a day to play. Ironically it is those of us with actual jobs that canafford to spend real money on gems. This is my FUN time. Stop trying to make me play like a teenager with 8 hours a day to waste on gaming.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Silentstorm.7531:

Sitael.4680:

a t s e.9614:

Level 80 champions can be farmed by a gearless level 10.
Can level 80 dungeons be completed by gearless level 10? If Yes please link the video

Can you link that video you are talking about please?
You know, that video! (with the gearless level 10, who is farming level 80 champions!)

They used to do that in queens pavillion all day. Basically the lvl 10’s got carried by the 80’s.

Weren’t characters in the pavilion up-leveled?

Yes they were. I never farmed champs until the concept was introduced to me through the queens pavilion. Seems to me that ANet simply wants you to farm THEIR living story champs. Zerg is what this entire game is based on outside of PvP.

Sitael.4680:

a t s e.9614:

Not nerfing the bags, but nerfing their location. champion should spawn randomly and there should be a limit of people killing them. Why so?

1. Too much reward for something that can’t fail. It’s just impossible to fail this, it’s like standing in LA and getting free gold. You can go there gearless at level 1 and nothing will happen to you because there like 50 other people killing the same thing.

2. It’s bad for new players, exemple: he starts at queensdale, gets to level 80 and even at max level he still don’t know how to use his class. Same thing for wvw by the way : if people zerg all day long , they have no idea how to win 1v1 fights, I’ve seen some pathetic things on youtube, people are winning 7v1 in wvw because alot of them simply never learn how to PvP, they just blob up and spam 111.

3. What’s the point of those dynamic events and other zones like Orr ? If people can just stand in the same place and kill the same mobs over and over again? What’s the points of living story then?

4. The economy, people complain about precursors being 800g. If somebody stops playing for a week he is too far behind because people r making hunder of golds per day with this.

So yea, I think the champions should scale with the number of people. Exemple if it’s more than 10, then it could become harder by adding those ‘elite mobs’ . This would make open world harder if there 15 people , they will have to fight 10 elite mobs and 1 champion. Or they could simply spawn randomly on the map to avoid the whole zerg train farming them.

A lot of … well … interessting suggestions, but

0) So you have no idea where and when a champion will pop up and if he pop up into a running fight, you will be for sure everything else but exited. Randomly mean: you have to ask on the map for other players (good), but i don’t think that is very succesfull. There is allready a limit of people can kill any mob. 150, the limit of the map.

1) It is not a free gold. You still have to do your part (damage), then this is the only way you are qualifyed for loot. And a champ event can fail, mainly because there are not enough player there to kill the champion.
For a weekend i was running a champion zerg for a couple of hours, but i never got anything else then some blue or green. Not worth running hours around and ending up with trashloot.

2) If a player starts at Queensdale and leveling up to 80 there … well, that is his/her decision. Many times and many playser use to say “LTP!” (learn to play) to others, but what would you say to someone who is saying “LTP!” to you? Do you think you are really aware of all finesses of a class, so that you are able to decide when another player is doing right or not? This is the same useless discussion as “full berserker vs. not full berserker gear&skill”.

3. What’s the point of your question?
Do you suggest, that players who do not like the LS should be forced to do it?
Again: if someone farming champions, that is his/her decision and you (or me) do not have the right to say him, how he should spend his ingame time.
And at last, they drops T6 too, and that is something you have to farm if you are working for a legendary.

4 & more.
For me it seems you are complaning about things that you can’t do. like the campions farming. just because you do not like it, or you do not have the time for it.

Since i’m playing this game (more than a year) i’v only seen 2 precursor drops. One of them was my at the Karka-Event last November. The other one droped from a normal mob during the Jubilee-pavilion for a guild member. Please note, that on the TP you see all offerts from all servers and think about it. If it would be true what you are saying, then it would be hundreds and hundreds of precurors on the TP.

I do not run the champoin zergs becaue for me it is to boring. but i do not think that is enough reason to nerv them.

+1 for this response…everything i was thinking. Thank you.

a t s e.9614:

How about skill wins instead of the zerg? Skilled players are being punished in every aspect. Just look at PvP it’s very hard to 2v1 because of the downed state.
My point is the economy shouldn’t have such a big inflation just because they are allowing this to happen. I will be forced to do this boring grind if I want to keep up with the precursor price.[/quote]
This has NOTHING to do with the topic. Champ trains are not the reason for high prices or bad game mechanics imposed by the developers.

Jagerbomb that’s exactly how i feel . I work full time. I don’t do dungeons because i can’t be GLUED to my computer. The champ train allowed me to make enough to make WvW builds. The people who make this game are truly making me not like it. I am not a hard core gamer. I USED to have fun but this game feels more and more like a freaking JOB. This is a GAME. it should never feel like a job.

Defora.3694:

8/10 I like all the little metallic details on chest & pants and you have managed to keep them so visible. Also wings & staff blue matches. Good work.

Here is my new look. (I decided to use shoulders&gloves, also can use it without like this http://i.imgur.com/eoEuJF7.jpg)

Hi Defora, great look! I usually don’t like armor on Sylvari but your colors and combination really complement the look of the race. Can you please tell me all the armor you have on?

I also agree with the OP.

Leave now….i just gets less fun with every update.

Oooops…oh well say goodbye to that loot now too. Sorry world boss killers. Oh….wait…that is the stuff anet WANTS you to do. Never mind how you want to play. Does not matter to anet in the least as long as gem sales are good

Ya inflation is the entire fault of the five regular FGS champ train people. Makes sense if you’re not too big on realism. Never mind the 150 person world boss train……. uh huh.

Peetee.9406:

Sounds like a good change to me. Now lets up those dungeon and dynamic event rewards just a small bit.

LOLOLOL… ya, like THAT’S gonna happen.

Well, I’ve completed all the PvE stuff (minus LS, which obviously changes), to the point where the thought of leveling up another character seems so tedious that I can’t bring myself to do it. I really love WvW, so my entire “end game” is to gain enough gold to outfit my 3 level 80’s in the best gear for that. Sadly, that seems to be super expensive, so I’m constantly doing boring champ trains, and ya, thanks ANet for stealth nerfing the rewards there. I do like AP so even if I don’t really like content I will do as many LS achievements as I can just to get the points. I NEVER get good drops from LS (everyone else seems to get ascended this and that while I get barbs… ya), so other than AP I find it completely confusing and unrewarding and frustrating… usually.

If ANet goes by numbers only they can’t possibly be getting the “true” picture of how people actually enjoy the game or what they might want in future.

Thanks for the help and especially for such great explainations on the pros and cons of the alternatives.