Guild Wars 2

Asgaeroth.6427:

Tarrek.7436:

The bags also give a bunch of garbage gear which most people salvage. Seems to be a method of increasing mystic stone purchases for mystic salvage kits. I know I’ve already gone through several.

use basics or copper fed on junk gear, save your mystic kit for rares

using mystic kits on a green is a net loss of 30 copper per use minimum. if you need green runes and sigils this badly you actually save money by buying them at full price on TP than salvaging for them.

I don’t use mystic kit for green runes and sigil, I use them to save space on my inventory bar.

40 seconds when untraited. Only Venom share thieves use that trait.

In PvP, almost all weapons are viable.

• Sword
• Torch
• MH axe
• Dagger
• Longbow
• Shortbow
• Greatsword

are all weapons I use consistently. I rarely use warhorn or offhand axe.

Since you are mainly talking about PvE, the PBS telling nerf isn’t going to effect you in any way.

Zoso.8279:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Motivation for me when in hotjoin and join a losing team is to help turn the tide. Communicating and getting somewhat organized can be the only thing that is needed to win a game.

Motivation for me when in hotjoin and join a losing team is to get some sucker to join the winning team so I can autobalance it.

I think something needs to be said about the Silverwaste escort missions.

Its good.

One of the best escort mission of any games I played so far.

It has zero dialogue, no story, and just an unrelatable bull. Despite having all these ‘vices,’ the speed of the escort mission makes up for everything and more.

Keneth.6490:

Tiale.2430:

Fear detected!

Annoyance, love. I like playing PvE without being bothered by other people or their requests to duel if it’s optional. Keep PvE and PvP separate, thank you very much.

This is the reason why I dislike Obsidian Sanctum. I know it’s in WvW, but I don’t see how being ganked by a bunch of kittens while I’m jumping makes for a fun jumping puzzle.

This is why gold needs to be removed. I like playing PvE without being bothered by other people or their begging even if gold is optional. Remove gold, thank you very much.

Bazzoong.7145:

The justification is not having access to protection and blocks and next to no access to stability.

You can choose either evades or access to the stuff mentioned above, give me protection and stability or a damage imunity and you can have feline grace, good luck…

edit: counter play is counting to 3 instead to 2, counter play is different from " a counter", if you throw chess concepts like counter play into the discussion of “gaming” you better understand what you are talking about.

Warriors and Guardians don’t have 20 seconds protection and blocks on a minor trait.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

I think there are multiple ways to fix that problem:

• Give equal, or near equal rewards to hotjoin losers/winners
• Give penaly to team leavers (Mitch’s post below)
• Give a buff to outnumbered players (combat buff)
• Give a buff for joining the outnumbered team (reward buff)
• Prompt spectators to join, because why would they spectate hotjoin (even a 5v1) anyway?

PS: Its not really the system that is broken. Its the players, and the inability from Anet to respond to their greed.

Free loot for evereyone! Because PvP == PvE

1. I support.
2. No support. I want to be able to leave without getting penalized.
3. No Support. I don’t want my 1v1 fight get ruined because some dude wanted to join my team.
4. I support.
5. No support. I want to be able to take a break for a few seconds and come back to play without automatically joining without my knowledge. I want to be able to spectate without a pop-up showing up to disturb me from watching.

Rashy.4165:

This is the system I would be fine with:
- Sensible unlock requirements. Or no unlock requirements.*

Done.

ANet already put in sensible unlock requirements. You just need to log in and see for yourself.

ANet needs to focus on something else.

Make Condi/CC/Snares actually useful.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

runeblade.7514:

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

5v5

Click “Ready” to join a random side. (Or the side with the least players)

Click “Spectate” to spectate.

Click “Ready” to join the same side you were on. (Can’t switch teams)

Right click “Join friend in PvP” to join friend in his PvP map. (Not his team)

When your friend is in your party AND your friend is on the team with less OR equal number of players, you will join his team. Otherwise, you will spectate untill you;

Click “Ready” which will do the exact same as line 1.

//—-This was my first attempt to fix hotjoin, let me know if something is missing.

This suggestion does not let me:

• Enter and leave whenever I want

I do not support. Why?

Click “Ready”

phys.7689:

runeblade.7514:

phys.7689:

runeblade.7514:

RyuDragnier.9476:

As I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again, the following is my suggested change.

Add an account wide unlock for the traits upon completing the tasks required to unlock them (whether buying them or doing the open world portion). Not a class wide unlock, I mean across all characters. For example, say a player unlocks all the traits on their Guardian. They make a Necromancer next. When they unlock the adept traits at level 36, they will have all of them already unlocked and ready for use.

I suggest this because as of right now, the trait system discourages experimentation with traits because you have to keep unlocking them, even on new characters, and makes the game significantly less fun due to this. Since I recall it being said that the trait changes originally came into place to encourage trait experimentation (which it failed to do), a simple account-bound unlock would be good enough to make that statement true.

I find myself experimenting more with the trait system than without it.

you are a rare case.
The only pro experimentation part of the revamp was taking away trait reset npc, which has no real connection to the things most people dislike about it. IE it could be introduced without any of the other changes.

Most people will experiment less with less options.

• If i got 3 chemicals, the amount of experimentation i can do is less
• If new chemicals have a high cost, and use resources i currently need, i will experiment less
• If obtaining new chemicals requires me to do something i hate i will experiment less

They basically have many different parts of this change that reduce the likely hood for experimentation in different ways.

Statistics? It sounds like you are pulling this out of a toilet.

With less choice, I can easily experiment which of the two traits I have without feeling overwhelmed. I don’t need to read 30 text to see what it does. Then gradually, I get more traits which I can experiment on and understand them better. Before, I just look at the forum guides because I don’t want to bother with reading so many text.

There is a difference of teaching Algebra, Geometry, calculus all at once vs. teaching algebra, geometry, calculus in different years.

its not statistics at play. Its logic.

No, it requires statistic not logic. Here:

you are a rare case.

Show me a Statistic. How would you know that I am a rare case? If I am a rare case, then you have a survey out there saying I am a rare case.

Otherwise, I can say that you guys are a rare case because logic.

how much different combinations you can try is directly related to how many ingredients you have. If you have 3 different things limiting your ingredients your ability to experiment is a lot less.

Too much utilities just make me want to go to the guides and have them figure it out for me.

Now you talk about getting overwelmed, but while i can believe you being overwelmed causes you not to experiment, i dont know why you would think its common, or that its better for everyone else to go at your specific pace.

You don’t have to go at my specific pace, you can always buy traits from the vendor for a cheap cost.

If you want to test it all at the same time, but too poor to do so, then you can go to the Heart of the mist.

you do realize, you have the option to do it one at a time in the other system right? you realize thats what most people who didnt want to read all of them at once do. They pick one, try it out, try a new one when they get bored of the old one.

I find it easier to get a guide and have them choose for me.

America.9437:

Runeblade, I think you may be a plant or a white knight or just like to be contrarian. Cause the trait unlock system is fubar.

Disgusting.

I don’t have the same opinion as you, which suddenly gives you a reason to mudslinging.

Jana.6831:

runeblade.7514:

Jana.6831:

I disagree as the trait system makes no sense: I may be able to get traits at level 18 but I’m not able to see them – so what’s the point?

So would you think it’ll be better if ANet buffed the levels so you can only get them at level 36? Either way, I don’t really care.

Did what you quoted indicate that that was my opinion? No, it’s just useless to be able to get traits if one can’t see or use them – only verterans would know how to get them and their value – so my proposal would be to be able to obtain and see traits as soon as one is able to use them.

runeblade.7514:

Upleveling is there so that low level players can play content. Downleveling is there so that high levels can be relevant to the low level zones. It has nothing to do with traits.

True, but thanks to no traits until level 30 and then only the Major Traits, as far as I remember, means that uplevels are bait in wvw and maybe pvp – they are severly disadvantaged – if you don’t believe me try it – get the latest gear and try wvw with only one or 2 traits.

runeblade.7514:

They can always buy important traits from the Vendor if they want it immediately. Then they can search for the rest of non-important traits if they want to.

This point wasn’t about whether or not to buy traits but that an uplevel might need certain traits but can’t get these at below level 30, 60 or 80. Again; try to survive in wvw without condi removal.

Edit: Stuff

I) The easiest choice would be to buff these traits to level 36. Now that I think about it, there can be a notification saying that you can use this trait at level 30, 60 80 instead. Really, I don’t find a problem with this that says the old system should come back. I don’t see why it is such a big problem to you either.
II) Shocker, higher levels have an advantage over lower levels.
III) Since this is a discussion about traits, I can make an argument by showing all the skills with condi removal.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

phys.7689:

runeblade.7514:

Jana.6831:

I disagree as the trait system makes no sense: I may be able to get traits at level 18 but I’m not able to see them – so what’s the point?

So would you think it’ll be better if ANet buffed the levels so you can only get them at level 36? Either way, I don’t really care.

Upleveling makes no sense anymore as a lot of the traits are either only availlable at a rather high level – or people can’t see or use them anyway.

Upleveling is there so that low level players can play content. Downleveling is there so that high levels can be relevant to the low level zones. It has nothing to do with traits.

A lot of really important traits are locked behind a high level, I’ve mentioned condi removal on my mesmer, f.e. People are being forced to play the game in a certain way, my wvw characters won’t make pve dungeon pugs happy, so I have to either get a second gear for them or buy the traits or live with being criticised for my “builds”. People who don’t like wvw will have a really hard time to get the wvw related traits.

They can always buy important traits from the Vendor if they want it immediately. Then they can search for the rest of non-important traits if they want to.

There’s no real indicator as how to obtain the traits, just a vague direction, that collides with the NPE.
It might be okay if one is a pure PvE player (except the wvw traits) but a lot of people aren’t.
And hey, I know all of this, a lot of people don’t so they will be surprised when facing all these troubles.

I agree that there are no real indicator. There just needs to be one.

1) they are saying why are there traits you cannot even look at in the UI, but you can get them. Its likely you will have to return to these areas, when you could have got it the first time. The UI should always show you where all the traits are.

2) the point is, uplevels cannot compete due to a lack of traits. This was always a possibility, but the swing is now 20 levels different. Not only that, but its unlikely they even have good traits.

3)Buying important traits from a vendor, people forget that they didnt always have infinite skill points, that largely happens after level 80, or when specifically farming (like champ farm) Someone actually leveling doesnt have 10-20 extra skill points to throw around. you really would have to choose between traits, and skills, and then between traits and other traits. Most people just wont bother.

1. I don’t think he is saying that.
2. Shocker, high levels can complete content easier than lower levels.
3. 3 SP for an adept trait, 5 SP for a master trait. You don’t need to spend 160 trait points for everything.

Well, did you hunt traits with all of those toons in your sig? I just don’t have that kind of time between work, family and such.

I agree that you don’t need all traits. I just leveled a new Necro, and just bought what I thought best. Rather inexpensive, but not encouraging me to experiment.

Just ran through a few hours of Mad King Lab, and all seems well for PvE.

I hunted traits with only 4 characters so far. Most of them were created pre-patch some of the others were created for PvP/WvW.

• Besides that, with or without the new trait system, leveling in the PvE world takes a lot of time. So your comment about playing with my toons and balancing my life holds no relevance at all.

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

A lot of really important traits are locked behind a high level, I’ve mentioned condi removal on my mesmer, f.e. People are being forced to play the game in a certain way, my wvw characters won’t make pve dungeon pugs happy, so I have to either get a second gear for them or buy the traits or live with being criticised for my “builds”. People who don’t like wvw will have a really hard time to get the wvw related traits.

They can always buy important traits from the Vendor if they want it immediately. Then they can search for the rest of non-important traits if they want to.

But having to BUY each individual trait is very costly in gold and skill-points. Also, how is a NEW player supposed to know they can buy them let alone buy all their traits to be able to experiment with builds?

This trait system along with the NPE goes against one of the major selling points for GW2: Play as you want. To get traits now you must either buy them(if you have the SP and Gold) or you must “hunt” the traits by doing something you don’t want to.

• 10 silver for EACH adept trait, 50 silver for EACH master trait. It barely reaches 1 gold. Notice I emphasize EACH because you wrote “each.”
• A new player should know they can buy them alone because it said so on the telescope icon next to each trait. If they want to experiment all of the trait, they can go to Heart of the mist to test it out.
• I don’t see what is wrong with getting a choice of buying a trait vs. hunting them down, nor do I see how it takes away with play how you want.

Somehow I think that you are missing the point.

In order to #experiment# with traits (you know, the thing that you tell us you do more often now) you need to buy more than one trait.

The cost for multiple traits in gold, and (more importantly) skill points is excessive in many peoples opinion.

Most people on this thread seem to think that the old system was just fine and dandy.

I’m thinking that you just checked in to stir up stuff.

1. If you did all the trait quest up to level 36 for your first major trait slot, you should get 7 adept traits, not counting WvW traits. That is more than 1 trait.
2. It is excessive if you plan to buy all 65 traits, which people keep stressing 43g + 360 SP just to make a point. But, Not really that much when you plan to get 7 traits for a single build. If you want to experiment, you can always head to the heart of the mist to experiment if it is worth buying.
3. I think that the old system was fine and dandy until I actually tried the new system.

phys.7689:

runeblade.7514:

Jana.6831:

I disagree as the trait system makes no sense: I may be able to get traits at level 18 but I’m not able to see them – so what’s the point?

So would you think it’ll be better if ANet buffed the levels so you can only get them at level 36? Either way, I don’t really care.

Upleveling makes no sense anymore as a lot of the traits are either only availlable at a rather high level – or people can’t see or use them anyway.

Upleveling is there so that low level players can play content. Downleveling is there so that high levels can be relevant to the low level zones. It has nothing to do with traits.

A lot of really important traits are locked behind a high level, I’ve mentioned condi removal on my mesmer, f.e. People are being forced to play the game in a certain way, my wvw characters won’t make pve dungeon pugs happy, so I have to either get a second gear for them or buy the traits or live with being criticised for my “builds”. People who don’t like wvw will have a really hard time to get the wvw related traits.

They can always buy important traits from the Vendor if they want it immediately. Then they can search for the rest of non-important traits if they want to.

There’s no real indicator as how to obtain the traits, just a vague direction, that collides with the NPE.
It might be okay if one is a pure PvE player (except the wvw traits) but a lot of people aren’t.
And hey, I know all of this, a lot of people don’t so they will be surprised when facing all these troubles.

I agree that there are no real indicator. There just needs to be one.

1) they are saying why are there traits you cannot even look at in the UI, but you can get them. Its likely you will have to return to these areas, when you could have got it the first time. The UI should always show you where all the traits are.

2) the point is, uplevels cannot compete due to a lack of traits. This was always a possibility, but the swing is now 20 levels different. Not only that, but its unlikely they even have good traits.

3)Buying important traits from a vendor, people forget that they didnt always have infinite skill points, that largely happens after level 80, or when specifically farming (like champ farm) Someone actually leveling doesnt have 10-20 extra skill points to throw around. you really would have to choose between traits, and skills, and then between traits and other traits. Most people just wont bother.

1. I don’t think he is saying that.
2. Shocker, high levels can complete content easier than lower levels.
3. 3 SP for an adept trait, 5 SP for a master trait. You don’t need to spend 160 trait points for everything.

phys.7689:

runeblade.7514:

RyuDragnier.9476:

As I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again, the following is my suggested change.

Add an account wide unlock for the traits upon completing the tasks required to unlock them (whether buying them or doing the open world portion). Not a class wide unlock, I mean across all characters. For example, say a player unlocks all the traits on their Guardian. They make a Necromancer next. When they unlock the adept traits at level 36, they will have all of them already unlocked and ready for use.

I suggest this because as of right now, the trait system discourages experimentation with traits because you have to keep unlocking them, even on new characters, and makes the game significantly less fun due to this. Since I recall it being said that the trait changes originally came into place to encourage trait experimentation (which it failed to do), a simple account-bound unlock would be good enough to make that statement true.

I find myself experimenting more with the trait system than without it.

you are a rare case.
The only pro experimentation part of the revamp was taking away trait reset npc, which has no real connection to the things most people dislike about it. IE it could be introduced without any of the other changes.

Most people will experiment less with less options.

• If i got 3 chemicals, the amount of experimentation i can do is less
• If new chemicals have a high cost, and use resources i currently need, i will experiment less
• If obtaining new chemicals requires me to do something i hate i will experiment less

They basically have many different parts of this change that reduce the likely hood for experimentation in different ways.

Statistics? It sounds like you are pulling this out of a toilet.

With less choice, I can easily experiment which of the two traits I have without feeling overwhelmed. I don’t need to read 30 text to see what it does. Then gradually, I get more traits which I can experiment on and understand them better. Before, I just look at the forum guides because I don’t want to bother with reading so many text.

There is a difference of teaching Algebra, Geometry, calculus all at once vs. teaching algebra, geometry, calculus in different years.

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

A lot of really important traits are locked behind a high level, I’ve mentioned condi removal on my mesmer, f.e. People are being forced to play the game in a certain way, my wvw characters won’t make pve dungeon pugs happy, so I have to either get a second gear for them or buy the traits or live with being criticised for my “builds”. People who don’t like wvw will have a really hard time to get the wvw related traits.

They can always buy important traits from the Vendor if they want it immediately. Then they can search for the rest of non-important traits if they want to.

But having to BUY each individual trait is very costly in gold and skill-points. Also, how is a NEW player supposed to know they can buy them let alone buy all their traits to be able to experiment with builds?

This trait system along with the NPE goes against one of the major selling points for GW2: Play as you want. To get traits now you must either buy them(if you have the SP and Gold) or you must “hunt” the traits by doing something you don’t want to.

• 10 silver for EACH adept trait, 50 silver for EACH master trait. It barely reaches 1 gold. Notice I emphasize EACH because you wrote “each.”
• A new player should know they can buy them alone because it said so on the telescope icon next to each trait. If they want to experiment all of the trait, they can go to Heart of the mist to test it out.
• I don’t see what is wrong with getting a choice of buying a trait vs. hunting them down, nor do I see how it takes away with play how you want.

RyuDragnier.9476:

As I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again, the following is my suggested change.

Add an account wide unlock for the traits upon completing the tasks required to unlock them (whether buying them or doing the open world portion). Not a class wide unlock, I mean across all characters. For example, say a player unlocks all the traits on their Guardian. They make a Necromancer next. When they unlock the adept traits at level 36, they will have all of them already unlocked and ready for use.

I suggest this because as of right now, the trait system discourages experimentation with traits because you have to keep unlocking them, even on new characters, and makes the game significantly less fun due to this. Since I recall it being said that the trait changes originally came into place to encourage trait experimentation (which it failed to do), a simple account-bound unlock would be good enough to make that statement true.

I find myself experimenting more with the trait system than without it.

Apolo.5942:

Why would you have to pay anything? you didnt before all this mess started, what exactly warrants removing player ability to experiment with the build they like?.

I find myself experimenting more with trait unlocks than without it.

If you want to experiment with all the traits, you can go to PvP. They have majority of everything unlocked. You don’t need to fight players, there is a pit where you can fight NPC.

Jana.6831:

I disagree as the trait system makes no sense: I may be able to get traits at level 18 but I’m not able to see them – so what’s the point?

So would you think it’ll be better if ANet buffed the levels so you can only get them at level 36? Either way, I don’t really care.

Upleveling makes no sense anymore as a lot of the traits are either only availlable at a rather high level – or people can’t see or use them anyway.

Upleveling is there so that low level players can play content. Downleveling is there so that high levels can be relevant to the low level zones. It has nothing to do with traits.

A lot of really important traits are locked behind a high level, I’ve mentioned condi removal on my mesmer, f.e. People are being forced to play the game in a certain way, my wvw characters won’t make pve dungeon pugs happy, so I have to either get a second gear for them or buy the traits or live with being criticised for my “builds”. People who don’t like wvw will have a really hard time to get the wvw related traits.

They can always buy important traits from the Vendor if they want it immediately. Then they can search for the rest of non-important traits if they want to.

There’s no real indicator as how to obtain the traits, just a vague direction, that collides with the NPE.
It might be okay if one is a pure PvE player (except the wvw traits) but a lot of people aren’t.
And hey, I know all of this, a lot of people don’t so they will be surprised when facing all these troubles.

I agree that there are no real indicator. There just needs to be one.

I think that the trait system is more fine than god-awful as people make it out to be.

It is annoying for power-levelers but it is fun for those that play the game.

One thing that I feel ANet needs to add in is a Quest text or a notification whenever you are high enough level to find a trait. Most traits are level-based anyways.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide#Trait_unlock_methods_sorted_by_level_range

How do you know it looks promising?

We don’t know what it is like.

If this doesn’t get implemented, I will just simply afk.

It is equal to one player missing, except I get rewarded for it.

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

If I find a buddy that maxed out weapon/armor skins, then they can only craft at fixed levels like level 35, 60, 80. They will not be able to craft level 44 armor.

TP weapons and armor is extremely laggy and unusable for buying low level gear.

I will simply out-level it much more faster than the time it takes to buy it all. If there was a quick “buy dated gear” button, that is the only way I will able to use the TP.

But then, it is much more easier to just add skins to white gear vendor.

NoTrigger.8396:

when i look at this the first question that comes to my mind is
“does this guy even understand gw2s unique combat system and that we actually have more build diversity independent of gear than other games”.

other than that “let mobs do everything at once” is really bad game design and just for the sake of “encouraging more build diversity” (actually it would reduce build diversity) when we already have alot of build diversity that you simply dont seem to understand.

Necromancer, Thief, Ranger, Engineer has one optimal/viable build. Guardian’s other build is niche for fractals only. So basically 5 professions don’t have diverse optimal/viable builds.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Category:All_Dungeon_Builds

If you want to say I can go 3/3/3/3/3 and it is a completely NEW build, I can build for less optimal in other mmo as well, 33 points on that talent tree, 20 points in the other talent tree because it is a completely NEW build.

There are a few way that I will admit that my solution is wrong. If you can make the pvp 4/6/0/0/4 condi necro with corrupt boon feel more or equally useful than a zerk ele in every dungeons. Meaning: I should press Corrupt boon/Well of corruption effectively in every encounter and that my condi damage is doing more dps than a zerk. If you can make my shout warrior bring better utility to the table than a zerk guardian, then I would agree with you.

Otherwise, You’re wrong. It is not diverse.

On the subject of “Mobs do everything = bad design.” You read it wrong. Mob groups should do everything at once. One mob might have boons, and condi while another mob have reflect and a dangerous burst. However, when groups fights a mob group, they should expect that every danger is out there.

When all mob groups can do everything at once, not one profession can fill every role on demand, not every guild can have all the professions available. So, players can wait for hours to find someone to fill this niche. Or they can switch some utility and traits. Professional build makers will have to build so that this mesmer can get boon removal, reflect. But if someone fills that role already, then another build has to be made so it can do DPS. Maybe someone doesn’t have interrupt, and the build maker has to build for interrupts + boon removal. etc etc. Then, what happens if there are two of the same mobs but they are away from each other? Guilds will need to keep the the amount of each utilities equally balance.

If ANet wants to make mobs/boss unique, they simply have to change the application of how the boss/mob apply their interrupts/snares/condi damage/Burst/buff/etc. Change particle effects, This will calm down your ‘bad design’ worries.

• A Boss can use reflect a lot more but rarely use interrupts.
• Maybe this mob have a AoE heal skill while other mobs do not have a heal skill, so a interrupter should focus on that mob more so mobs can’t heal up. This other mob uses burst projectiles so a reflecter should get up on the mob’s face.
• Since no stacking is in my suggestion, It wouldn’t be effective to bring AoE boon removal/snares/reflect/other support stuff and, everyone else dps.

I do understand the situation better than a mudslinger.

I wish they have more skins, interesting or not, to offer.

Maybe put Heart reward items in weapon/armor vendors, Put crafted skins in vendors, or put the unobtainable gear in it. Make new skins for weapon and armor vendors. Anything.

I would like to be able to go to vendors and buy from them. Trading post is extremely clunky.

Xae Isareth.1364:

You can’t have a raid be doable with any build/class you want. Well, you can, but there’s no point doing that because everyone will end up using the most efficient setup anyways.

The only reason tanks and healers exist in MMOs is because the game specifically needs them in the solution. If you get rid of that enforced restriction, then we’ll just get a repeat of what we have now: everyone running the same full zerker builds.

On the point of the topic. It’s going to sound weird, but I don’t think the raid should be very challenging, at least not at same level as Wildstar or WoW.

Look at the game at the moment. There’s nothing preparing you for challenging content. There’s Arah P4 and Aetherpath but they are barely run, so to add a really difficult raid would be a complete curveball.

I believe that raids do have the capacity to be doable with any build/class you want. If not, a more diverse selection of builds will be viable/optimal than dungeons currently have.

The solution is to let mobs/boss do everything at once.

NoTrigger.8396:

runeblade.7514:

While it sounds impressively hard, This still looks like this can be implemented in a 5 player dungeon. I can’t see how Wildstar devs can’t simply downscale it a little bit so that the difficultly matches a 5 man dungeon.

in the case of a 5 man dungeon you would have max 2 eggs or if you change the mechanics 4 eggs, which is extremely easy to manage and coordinate.

For a well-coordinated raid group, everything is extremely easy. I would rate this as moderate difficulty. But if this was in a Guild Wars 2 15 man raid, I would stay in a stack and let a warrior use Tremor to interrupt them all at the same time.

you dont have to pay attention to where you go,

Don’t stand under AoE.

where you stand,

Don’t stand under AoE. Stand under boss to melee.

where you meet to interrupt.

Close to each other while not stacking.

idk i could give you 20000 reasons why dungeon encounters will never reach the complexity and difficulty of raid encounters. but thats a different topic.

I agree that it is a different topic.

NoTrigger.8396:

runeblade.7514:

NoTrigger.8396:

Ben K.6238:

Most of the combat involving larger numbers of people simply comes down to stacking and DPS tests, which require less skill, not more. Hence my question – is there any way that bringing larger numbers into one fight can still require skilled play from every member, and do so in a way that you can’t replicate with a smaller group?

One notable exception is GvG combat, where the mechanics are completely different from 5v5 fights and you die very fast if you don’t know what you’re doing. Perhaps that might be a good source of inspiration – but it would require someone with more experience than me to explain the mechanics of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HisRpzL24B8

watch this and pay attention to the eggs. if you dont understand what is happening there i will explain it.
but you will never be able to put mechanics like that into smaller group content or dungeons.

All I see is 15-16 players meleeing a static boss while moving away from AoE. And players attacking Eggs that traps allies?

Now, a 5 man dungeon can easily do the same thing. Subject Alpha can trap players in crystals. Remove a few party slots, balance HP accordingly and you get a dungeon.

phase 1:
- dont get it by lasers, pretty obvious
if you get hit by a laser, it will deal 50%~ of your hp in damage to you and you will be slowed down extremely. means chances are high you will step into an aoe and die.
- smaller aoes
- the boss teleports behind one of the outer 6 pillars at the beginning of the fight and then every minute, until you push him to 75% hp. you have to interrupt the boss behind the pillar to make him teleport back to the middle. as long as you dont interrupt him, an aoe in the middle of the room will get bigger and bigger until everyone dies. the players behind the pillars get a dot. aoe and dot will disappear once the boss is interrupted.

phase 2:
- random aoes around the inner pillars
- smaller aoes
- big aoe:
you can hide behind 2-3 specific pillars. if you dont do that, the aoe will oneshot you.
- tank swap:
the tank with aggro gets hit with massive damage. the second tank needs to interrupt the boss. if you dont interrupt, the boss heals himself for 700k hp.
- Eggs:
one random player gets a corruption debuff and will be transformed into an egg.
to free the corrupted player, another player has to interrupt the egg. if you dont do that, the player in the egg will die and every other player will die after a short amount of time because of incoming damage. the eggs deal pulsating damage.
the player who interrupted the egg will get the corruption debuff too and will be transformed into an egg one minute later as well.
that means 1 egg -> 1 min -> 2 eggs -> 1 min -> 4 eggs -> 1 min -> 8 eggs -> 1 min -> if the boss isnt dead yet, game over. (basically the enrage timer)
if one player who is affected by the corruption debuff dies, the debuff will be carried over to another random player (domino effect, you wont stop this, game over).
if one player who is affected by the corruption debuff interrupts an egg, the corrupted player will immediately die and the domino effect will begin (see above, same counts if a player who is not affected by the corruption debuff interrupts 2 eggs).
the by the corruption debuff affected players and the players who will interrupt need to get in set positions every time the egg transformation happens, otherwise its just too much chaos (see reasons above). you typically use cardinal directions for this.
- the corruption debuff:
your outgoing damage is buffed by 200%. you have a dot dealing damage to you until the fight is over.

the average amount of wipes until guilds kill this boss for the first time is 100 or something.

just a little little bit more difficult than subject alpha people can kill first try even when they are new to the game.

logs for this kill:
http://www.wildstarlogs.com/reports/DFfHjtdvaAW9LRVx#fight=27

and i would like to see bosses like that in gw2 tbh.
actually you could put the same encounter easily in gw2 if you removed the hard hitting autoattacks and tuned the incoming damage so players can keep themselves alive by blasting water fields and using defensive buffs and boons.

Since the argument is

but you will never be able to put mechanics like that into smaller group content or dungeons.

While it sounds impressively hard, This still looks like this can be implemented in a 5 player dungeon. I can’t see how Wildstar devs can’t simply downscale it a little bit so that the difficultly matches a 5 man dungeon.

Please explain that.

NoTrigger.8396:

Ben K.6238:

Most of the combat involving larger numbers of people simply comes down to stacking and DPS tests, which require less skill, not more. Hence my question – is there any way that bringing larger numbers into one fight can still require skilled play from every member, and do so in a way that you can’t replicate with a smaller group?

One notable exception is GvG combat, where the mechanics are completely different from 5v5 fights and you die very fast if you don’t know what you’re doing. Perhaps that might be a good source of inspiration – but it would require someone with more experience than me to explain the mechanics of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HisRpzL24B8

watch this and pay attention to the eggs. if you dont understand what is happening there i will explain it.
but you will never be able to put mechanics like that into smaller group content or dungeons.

All I see is 15-16 players meleeing a static boss while moving away from AoE. And players attacking Eggs that traps allies?

Now, a 5 man dungeon can easily do the same thing. Subject Alpha can trap players in crystals. Remove a few party slots, balance HP accordingly and you get a dungeon.

TPenny.5071:

RAID MODES
Various raid modes have been suggested but most agree one mode that fits all would be best. But many have different ideas as to how hard it should be and how many people should fit inside.

HARD MODE
Making content that is tailored to the tippy top of players is only exclusive BUT! A hard mode variant of the same content just for prestige. Would this keep people satisfied?

IRON MAN MODE
Some people like to punish themselves. (Not a serious suggestion)

---

RAID ROLES

Build diversity should be promoted through event / boss mechanics.

There are lots of builds out there but so far content has directed to time efficiency with all berserker gear and damage builds. Some say it’s due to the effectiveness of dodges, agis, reflects and how they are just as effective with defensive stats as offensive ones. To farther variety skills should scale with stats but this is a topic for another thread in the future.

It’s no longer as simple as tank, heal and DPS. Guildwars2 doesn’t have traditional roles but each profession dips its toe in several pools.

• Melee damage: Being in melee range is the highest damage but also the most risky.

• Range Damage: Range is for situations where it’s not possible to melee or you are playing it safe to counter an event mechanic.

• Condition damage: Condition vulnerable enemies, such as wurm husks. Removal of the condition duration from the unshakable buff and have unique player conditions.

• Kiting: Aggro of the boss or mobs should feel less random, maybe focusing their gaze onto a specific player through mechanics. (ooze attractant)

• Runner: When things require you move fast this is your guy! See that button? Go press it! Pressure plate over there? He’s on it!

• Reviver: A troop of people able to pick up the downed as fast as possible, and have the best chance of reviving a fully downed player. (not sure)

• Support boons: Primary focus on keeping up vital boons for survival such as: agis, vigor and protection also using appropriate combo fields.

• Support reflects: Supports the raid by placing well aimed and timed reflect spells to counter projectiles.

• Support Condition removal: Exactly what it says on the tin, removes conditions were applicable.

• Crowd Control: Slowing and knocking back of enemies running towards your more vulnerable players.

Encounters should be designed with every role in mind and carefully consider what each could do before excluding one.

These roles already exist in dungeons and can be done in Berserker gear.

It will not do a single thing to promote build diversity. If you want real build diversity, then ANet will need this.

Ben K.6238:

runeblade.7514:

I see some discussion about splitting up raid groups. Like 3 groups of 5 of a 15 man group. … This is no different than a harder to group dungeon team. I rather have ANet balance around 15 man group.

That’s precisely what it is, a harder multi-team dungeon. What gameplay advantage is there to 15 people together?

Uh no, you mis-read what I said. Harder to group as in: Pain in the kitten to find members for the raid group.

The advantage is harder content that is for 15 people instead of 5 people. If ANet wants dungeons in a raid, then they can make more dungeons instead of hyping up raids. If ANet wants dungeon to be harder, they can buff the mobs to make it harder.

A wishlist is just a list that you can show off to your friends on what you want.

It can also notify you when the item comes out in the gemstore so you can buy it.

I see some discussion about splitting up raid groups. Like 3 groups of 5 of a 15 man group.

I am against this in any way.

This is no different than a harder to group dungeon team. I rather have ANet balance around 15 man group.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Can we get back to talking about the two main topics we are focusing on please.

Specifically:

1: Progression
2: Foundational raiding mechanics based on the core combat and movement of GW2.

Chris

2. All mob groups should be able to do everything at once.

If I want to be a Boon corrupter, I want to be useful in every raid dungeon. I don’t want to feel useless in a 4-5 raid dungeon while only be useful in 1 raid.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/page/16#post4529560

By doing this, even if it doesn’t destroy the zerk meta, at least every profession will have a diversity of builds that tries to cover many utility and role as much as possible.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

runeblade.7514:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Symph.8407:

But you cannot exclude unique rewards because a minority of the playerbase might not like them.

You dont have to exclude the rewards , but that doesnt mean that the reward must be ’’beautiful’’ :P

PPl WILL BE FORCED to play the raid if the reward is visually beeautiful , and they will moan that encounter to be nerfed afterwards .
But if the lesser-easier bosses throw those ’’beautifuls’’ rewards they wont whine at all … and the other ‘’ugly-prestigious’’ gear can be be looted by the dificult bosses for the pro players :P

Edit : Ah , i didnt see the ’’red’’ post … sorry

Fractals had ascended rings and beautiful fractal weapons but, I didn’t feel forced to play fractals.

So no. You’re wrong.

If they weapons + rings where only avialable only in the 51 lvl Fractal , i would love to hear your opinion at that time :P
And in order to reach you 1 extra lvl , you have to maxed out with full accendant gear . a character :P
But if want every boss to drop that ‘’beautiful gear’’ and not exclusive the last boss , i am ok with that :P

Few ppl doing Raids = in the near future = less suport + longer time to create new Raids .
You need ppl , but if the problem is loot … i dont know what to say
In PvP side there was a moto : ‘’as long as there are athletes , ppl will fill the stadium’’ . And atm the stadium is still bhalf empty ….

I am only at level 14. So the difference of level 30 and 50 doesn’t make a difference.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Symph.8407:

But you cannot exclude unique rewards because a minority of the playerbase might not like them.

You dont have to exclude the rewards , but that doesnt mean that the reward must be ’’beautiful’’ :P

PPl WILL BE FORCED to play the raid if the reward is visually beeautiful , and they will moan that encounter to be nerfed afterwards .
But if the lesser-easier bosses throw those ’’beautifuls’’ rewards they wont whine at all … and the other ‘’ugly-prestigious’’ gear can be be looted by the dificult bosses for the pro players :P

Edit : Ah , i didnt see the ’’red’’ post … sorry

Fractals had ascended rings and beautiful fractal weapons but, I didn’t feel forced to play fractals.

So no. You’re wrong.

Hey guys, what do you think about mobs or mobs group can do everything at once?

For example, rip/corrupt/transfer boons, apply conditions to enemies, transfer/remove condis to themselves or others, apply boon to themselves, reflect projectile, heal themselves or others, support themselves support others, revive dead allies(like warbanner), do huge aoe damage, do huge single target damage.

All so that a diversity of builds will be useful?

[b]Proposal:
Create more demands in dungeons/raid. Let Mob groups can do everything to create demand.

[b]Goal of Proposal

Encourage more build diversity and a little bit more gear choice.

[b]Proposal Functionality

Dungeons have very little demands. What do I mean by demands? Well, dungeons do not demand cripple, boon removal, CC because they don’t need it in dungeons.

• Cripple, immobilize, chill- discourage stacking. It is the only way to see these conditions find use anywhere.
• Boon removal/corrupting- Not very demanding because no mobs apply boons. To fix this, every mob can at least apply a weak boon to themselves + several mobs can stack boons to their allies.
• Daze/Interrupt/Stun- The AoE stuns are useful actually. Single target stuns are not, in mob groups or boss. Give every mob the ability to heal themselves, single target stuns become more useful so that mobs don’t renew themselves. For Bosses, listen to the community on taking steps to remove defiant.
• Condition damage- Simple to fix this. Some mobs have more toughness and less hp.
• Toughness/Vitality/Healing power- I feel that steps to discourage stacking will make these stats a lot more useful if mobs AI were implemented right. Players with toughness/vitality can survive better in an AoE to revive downed players. Healing power can be useful with water fields and healing others.
• Single target- Instead of AoEing everything to death, I would like to see some builds that focuses on single important targets, lets call them veterans. These veterans don’t have high health, they are very dangerous, and highly resistance or immune to focus fire/AoE. A small team is needed to kill them while the others are focused on the mobs.
• Projectiles- Probably be more useful by discouraging stacking.
• Melee- This means that melee becomes a lot more worthless. To fix this, give reflect or projectile blocking to mobs.

• Every mob group encounter should be able to do everything. Make a checklist:They should be able to rip/corrupt/transfer boons, apply conditions to enemies, transfer/remove condis to themselves or others, apply boon to themselves, reflect projectile, heal themselves or others, support themselves support others, revive dead allies(like warbanner), do huge aoe damage, do huge single target damage. Not every mobs need to do all this by themselves. It can be split up between teams.

• To keep mobs unique, one mob can have AoE/boon removal/High health/low toughness, another mob can have boon support, high toughness/low hp/projectiles. But every mob group needs to have everything.

• To keep bosses unique, how they apply the attack can be different. For example, projectile(bouncing, AoE straight line), AoE(consistent, instant), whirling(instant, consistent), leaps, etc. Bosses can also combo through themselves: Boss applies a fire field then he uses a blast finisher to give himself 10 stacks of might.

• Sometimes, not everyone can bring these. So I suggest that consumable to fill every niche is made. However, it is completely weak compared to bringing a player. Such as, 3 second cast to rip a boon.

I want to be able to play any build I like and find it effective anywhere in all raids. I want to be able to find it difficult to choose between Well of Corruption and Corrupt Boon. I don’t want to switch builds because no mobs “bring boons.”

I just don’t want this to be like dungeons with more players.

Associated Risks:

• Some players are not ready to break out of the liner model mold.
• Very expensive to make mobs unique while doing everything.

Rasimir.6239:

runeblade.7514:

laokoko.7403:

runeblade.7514:

The level 32 Heart quest in Fields of Ruin is the most frustrating of all.

No ogre spawns there at all. Only a few ogre racks spawns with a long respawn timer plus it takes a long time to complete it.

Just pick up the char metal. All you need to do is stand in 1 place and pick up charr metal which respawn every 5*0000* seconds and it’s done in 100 seconds. years

fixed.

Nope. The heart in question actually has an incredibly short respawn rate for charr metal. Just run the smallest circle around the southern platform, and metal will respawn before you’re even half-way around. Just standing next to a pile and picking it up actually is a quick (if somewhat boring) way to get this one done.

That said, I personally am always happy when I find the event going on in that area, since that will give me plenty of ogres to fight instead of collecting metal, or better yet, the area taken over by the ogres, which, admittedly doesn’t happen all that often these days, since there’s always people around that try to do the meta event.

Sounds like you were lucky enough to get ogre respawns.

laokoko.7403:

runeblade.7514:

The level 32 Heart quest in Fields of Ruin is the most frustrating of all.

No ogre spawns there at all. Only a few ogre racks spawns with a long respawn timer plus it takes a long time to complete it.

Just pick up the char metal. All you need to do is stand in 1 place and pick up charr metal which respawn every 5*0000* seconds and it’s done in 100 seconds. years

fixed.

Galen Grey.4709:

Crystal Reid.2481:

cesmode.4257:

Hi, I mentioned this in my first post a few moments ago. I could be out of date as well as this mind set that we were given early on…but isn’t the entire game ‘endgame’ ? Hop in, do whatever you want to do. No pressure, nada. Take your time, the whole thing is your oyster. When you start creating level 80 content only, ala raids, you segregate the playerbase much like other games where its then a rush to max level to do the raids. All of the gorgeous 1-80 content you have in this game becomes completely trivial and a stepping stone to the real game. You might as well just allow people to boost to 80 via potions or something and skip leveling all together because it becomes absolutely meaningless. A meaningless time sink. I didnt need 80 levels to learn my class. Maybe less than two dozen and I had it down. The rest was just enjoyment because the 1-80 content was nice. I leveled through it without any pressure. Put max level content in the game, and we will feel rushed to get to the real stuff. Its human nature.

For this reason, I do not think raids belong in GW2. But if they are to be implemented, I do have suggestions which I have shared

I bolded a section of this that I wanted to inquire about. Do you think the fact the game has been live for over 2 years now change your thoughts on this? This is definitely a common occurrence with new MMO’s that launch with raiding, but what about a game that didn’t launch with raiding? Is there still an issue of players “rushing to 80” when a large percentage of the player base already has at least one 80? Thoughts?

Yes I believe its still relevant. Its relevant for new players obviously but also for veterans. Many people create alts and not alts are already level 80. I myself have 4 chars at level 80, 1 thats nearly there, 3 alts that are not 80 yet and 2 free slots that I havent even created a character for. Having played since launch I could easily have gotten all my chars to 80 but because there is no rush I take it easy. Wait around for dynamic events to spawn, explorer outside the beaten path, stop and chat with NPCs etc… However a level 80 raid that requires a fully geared lvl 80 char will be a problem for that play style. If and I definitely will want to try different professions I need to level my chars and work hard if I have to gear them in ascended armor as well. .It will take months per Alt of work and that scares me so to speak or potentially drive me off from raiding with alts.

Then veterans can raid with their level 80 characters. It is not like there is some mystical force stopping you from logging into your level 80 characters.

The level 32 Heart quest in Fields of Ruin is the most frustrating of all.

No ogre spawns there at all. Only a few ogre racks spawns with a long respawn timer plus it takes a long time to complete it.

Why not just delete Guild Wars 2 instead?

It is much more faster to do so than implementing this nonsense.

Bubi.7942:

@runeblade:
The thing is, set goals motivate people. If a goal is easy to reach, it doesn’t motivate well. If the goal is near impossible, it doesn’t motivate well. Best goals are those, that are hard and challanging to get, you put in effort, and you overcome difficulties, thus you achieve your goal. That’s a great feeling. Now the trick is, different peole have differnet “limit” values on what they find ‘hard’ or ‘easy’.

Now, right above your comment I mention the Yakslapper WvW achievment, which is to kill 1.000.000 Yaks. I think no one finds that motivating, as the reasonable estiamte for completing it 40-50 years.

For dungeons it’s 79.920 tokens in total. Assuming one does a full run every day in 1 dungeon (207 tokens – for 1 hour avarage) it takes 386 days to complete it. That means you run every single day, not one day or path missed. If one is a sane person, one doesn’t do that most likely.

Altough that’s whtihin comprehension doesn’t it seem like a dull task to you? There is no change in difficulty, there is no veriety, it’s the exact same thing. It’s an endurance test against boredom and monotony.

Even if you spread out to 3 paths, for each dungoen you do the same thing 48 times. Don’t just diss the numbers, think about it. First 3-4 runs, you learn the dungeon. 5-15 you profit from your knowledge – I guess this still can be seen as enjoyable. And the last 33?

Being worried about someone getting the same vanity items as you, is a legit concern I guess, altough the current suggeston reduces the days needed to get 1 set of armor from 7 days to 6. Nothing really worth mentioning.

About luck: I meant that you/me/anyone was lucky to already have a set from PvP in the PvP wardrobe, as it was impossible to fortell that account wardrobe, and collectibles were coming.

If it doesn’t motivate you, then don’t do it. Simple as that.

If I get burned out halfway through, I can take a break. There is no subscription fee telling me to keep grinding.

Crystal Reid.2481:

runeblade.7514:

Controversal Topics that I see around this thread.

• Scaling- Should Raids be rigid to make balancing easier or, should Raids be very flexible so that all guilds can be more inclusive to their members?

• Difficulty- Should Raids be easy enough for casual players, or should raids be difficult so it requires skill on the risk of excluding casual player.

• Stacking- What steps should be taken to remove stacking or should it even be removed at all?

• AI- What AI should be in place?

• Rewards- How rewarding should Raids be?

• Punishment- How punishing should failing a raid be? How punishing should dying be?

These are all really excellent questions! I would love to see some drilling down into these specifics with your proposals.

You ask for answers, but I give you more Questions!

Controversal Topics v1.01 that I see around this thread.

• Scaling- Should Raids be rigid to make balancing easier or, should Raids be very flexible so that all guilds can be more inclusive to their members?

-If Raids should be rigid, how many party members should be the maximum allowed? 6,10, 20, 30? and why that specific number?

-If raids should be flexible, how can ANet keep difficulty consistent at 15 people vs. 150 people?

• Difficulty- Should Raids be easy enough for casual players, or should raids be difficult so it requires skill on the risk of excluding casual player. How difficult do you want it to be?

• Stacking- What steps should be taken to remove/discourage stacking or should it even be removed at all?

• AI- What AI should be in place? A simple AI or a very complex AI?

• Rewards- How rewarding should Raids be? What kind of rewards do you want to see? How should players get to those rewards: RNG, Tokens, both? Compare to the rest of the game, where should raiding rewards in the reward hierarchy should be?

• Punishment- How punishing should failing a raid be? How punishing should dying be? Some people want failing a raid(aka wiping) or dying to be very punishing. Do you want wiping on a raid to be more punishing than wiping on a dungeon? Should dying be more punishing than currently is?

• 5-12 months after raids are released, how do you want to see the people raid normally? Should raids surprise players even at that time(“That boss shouldn’t do that yet!”) or, do you want people to know the raid from inside and out?

• How should party kicking be managed in raiding? Let say there is one bad apple in the raid. Does it require 2 votes to kick like a normal party? Majority rules? Party leader dictator?

• Should ANet implement a special userface for raiding such as seeing HP bars for all party members or should it be kept how it is to keep the UI clean?

• Preparing for raids- Should raids be allowed to be completed with an average-skilled group that is full with masterwork/fine gear, or should everyone be required to have exotic gear?

-Should raids be allowed to be completed with full berserker/soldier gear group with an average group? Or do you want to see a group with mix and match gear be more effective than full zerker?

• Selling raid spots- Yay or nay? Why?

• Skipping- Should it be an issue? If it shouldn’t be an issue, should ANet bother making better AI for trash mobs.

• Reset- How long should it take to reset a raid? Weekly, monthly, daily?