I have always thought this trait unlocking system was counter productive.
1. It discourages build experimentation.
2. It discourages you from playing in different formats by optimizing your builds. If I have bought traits for PvE, I would have to pay for new traits for WvW/PvP if I want to optimize my build.
3. It gives an unfair advantage to older characters who do not have to unlock traits, especially in WvW/PvP as they do not have the current restrictions to optimize their builds, like the new characters do.
1. It also encourages build experimentation. I found myself experimenting when I get a new trait. Not all players decides to fiddle with everything from the moment they unlock a large sets of traits. Some players like to experiment a few at a time.
2. It also encourages optimizing builds. When it is easier to experiment builds, it encourages optimizing builds.
3. Not really. An unfair advantage is when you are not using the meta build and the other players are using meta builds. You only need a minimum of 7 traits. Any player can afford that much.
It was brilliant until they screwed it up with this alt-unfriendly trait system. I’m optimistic that it will be brilliant again.
I have many alts, I never once thought it was alt-unfriendly.
1) How many alts
2) How many were grandfathered in vs how many were new after April 15th
3) On the post April 15th alts, how many traits do you have unlocked per toon
4) On alts rolled after April 15th, how many traits did you buy vs unlock
5) Are you a player that is sitting on stacks and stacks of skill points and who is wealthy enough that 43 gold per alt is not a big deal
1. Look in my signature.
2. 5 are before patch. The rest after patch
3. 20 of them unlocked everything. 4-5 did not unlock everything.
4. I bought somewhere around 0-4 traits for each character because I didn’t like the traits I got. Then I hunted down the rest.
5. Nope. I am not sitting on stacks and stacks of gold. I do have a lot of skillpoint scrolls I forgot to use.
Why did you have to wait for HoT to just pop on and say “We recognize that this is a problem and are working to fix it.”
Do you realize how much nicer it would be if we were to receive timely information? Is that asking too much?
I realize that there was a hint about this given a couple of weeks ago by Gaile, but that was still 70-some odd pages into this thread — about 8 months since this thread started.
That’s eight months widening the gap of distrust between ArenaNet and it’s players. Eight months of rage that could have been avoided from the start by just engaging with us in a timely manner. Seriously, ask yourselves — is this how you want your company to present itself to its players?
I hope that post-HoT, the need to wait for every meaningful communication to require hype and theatrics is gone.
Because it was never a problem.
Uh, this 80-page thread and my drastically diminished time in-game would like to have a word with you. You can say that it’s not a problem all you want, but even the devs have said that it’s a problem that is going to be fixed.
I take back my statement.
New statement: The only problem is that ANet didn’t implement this in the beginning.
Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.
In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.
Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.
I like current trait unlocking system. It could use more work, but not enough for it to be removed completely.
A few minor additions would be enough to satisfy the masses.
Satify you, correct? Because the “masses” hate it, which is why the system is saying adios.
If it was there when launched, no one would complain.
In fact, this was a hyped up feature when it was announced. Everybody wanted it before it was implemented.
7 Traits for one build. ArenaNet has said that they want to allow for free experimentation of builds. You can’t do that with 7 traits. Free experimentation means having all 65 traits, and no, experimenting in PvP does not count for PvE. Some professions only have one meta build, but others have many different depending on the situation. 7 Traits will not let you switch freely between these different situations/playstyles.
PvP doesn’t count because…?
In the past, I can’t freely experiment because my master, and grandmaster traits are locked. PvP is the best way to experiment either way.
Skills and traits are balanced differently in PvP. As soon as you go into the lobby, you’re using the PvP variants, and your PvE skills/traits don’t matter as much. Since the balancing is different, it will play differently in PvE. You could use the exact same builds in both PvP and PvE and “experiment” on the target golems, but it’ll still be different.
Even if you don’t have your XIII Traits, you can still experiment with the remaining 60, if you were grandfathered in. However, if you create a character after the April feature pack, you’re screwed as you’ll have no traits to unlock.
In the past, you had all of your trait tiers unlocked by level 60. All you really needed was the remaining 20 trait points to allocate, and you had all of your traits. Now, at level 80, you’d be lucky to have 4-5 traits unlocked through normal gameplay, even if you had all of the necessary trait points.
The difference of Skills/traits between pve and pvp is numbers, which is negligible. If a difference in number is so important, ANet should make all ascended gear free so I can ‘test’ it.
Why did you have to wait for HoT to just pop on and say “We recognize that this is a problem and are working to fix it.”
Do you realize how much nicer it would be if we were to receive timely information? Is that asking too much?
I realize that there was a hint about this given a couple of weeks ago by Gaile, but that was still 70-some odd pages into this thread — about 8 months since this thread started.
That’s eight months widening the gap of distrust between ArenaNet and it’s players. Eight months of rage that could have been avoided from the start by just engaging with us in a timely manner. Seriously, ask yourselves — is this how you want your company to present itself to its players?
I hope that post-HoT, the need to wait for every meaningful communication to require hype and theatrics is gone.
7 Traits for one build. ArenaNet has said that they want to allow for free experimentation of builds. You can’t do that with 7 traits. Free experimentation means having all 65 traits, and no, experimenting in PvP does not count for PvE. Some professions only have one meta build, but others have many different depending on the situation. 7 Traits will not let you switch freely between these different situations/playstyles.
PvP doesn’t count because…?
In the past, I can’t freely experiment because my master, and grandmaster traits are locked. PvP is the best way to experiment either way.
I say make the Mortar’s shots both Positive to allies hit, as well as negative to enemies hit. So each shot has two effects. that makes it more useful
Still useless.
It is useless because
It has no mobility.
Weak DPS- can’t crit, huge arc so there is more travel time,
Low range- Grenadier lets grenades have 1500 range. Even with Elite supply traited, mortar is no better than grenades.
Has minimum range
Paints you an easy target
The only way to save Mortar is to increase the range dramatically. Meaning, I should be able to use my mortar from Home objective and be able to hit mid objective. Otherwise, just delete it. There is no other way to fix mortar.
For every additional player that res, each res heal gets cut by 50%.
First resser heals for 100%.
Second resser heals for 50%
Third resser heals for 25%
Fourth resser heals for 12.5% and so on.
Healing power, on the otherhand, increases healing from ressing.
It won’t destroy zerkers group, but it’ll make them more risky. It’ll make healing power more useful in mediocre pugs but not as useful in speedrun groups because they don’t need ressers. More build diversity without making healing power a requirement.
I like current trait unlocking system. It could use more work, but not enough for it to be removed completely.
A few minor additions would be enough to satisfy the masses.
Umm… no. A ‘few minor additions’ would not satisfy most of us. I don’t know where you get your knowledge, but if you read this thread, you would never say that.
Yes it would.
Unlockable traits gives the feeling of power progression. It helps a little bit in the progression between level 30-80 from being stale and boring. All you needed to do is buy a minimum of 7 traits, every other traits are optional and cosmetic.
A few minor additions will help. Such as:
Trait books as RNG loot.
Trait books as level rewards
Trait quests- A mail comes to you on where the trait book is located.
Seperate WvW and PvE trait progression.
More profession trainers in every zone.
Never once while leveling most of my characters through trait unlocking did I feel that Trait unlocking became a chore. If I really wanted a specific trait, I can buy it straight from the trainer.
Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.
In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.
Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.
I like current trait unlocking system. It could use more work, but not enough for it to be removed completely.
A few minor additions would be enough to satisfy the masses.
With no grind, they mean no mandatory grind. There is no gear threadmill.
You don’t have to grind in order to keep up. All the grind in this game is just for cosmetics. Sure there is ascended, but that’s only like 5% better than exotic so you don’t really need it.
Except, Ascended involves stats. So no, you are wrong. There is a gear threadmill, not all the grind in this game is just for cosmetics. Colin’s no grind philosophy is BS.
The theme of the Revenant is obviously based around the Ritualist know matter how you look at it. Like how the Guardian was born from the Monk or Thief from Assassin.
At first, I thought it would be based around Ritualist.
However, I see it more based around Dervish now that I think about it. The difference is, the player uses the power of the mist instead of the gods for their skills and form. If Revenant drops Jalis-turrets, then I would agree that it is based around Ritualist.
I’m worried that new players will be required to buy the expansion in order to have the full customization of their characters: Mastery system, Reverant class, Specialization, and the Stronghold. Would the new player who can’t shell out cash for Standard copy + expansion be able to access all of these in the first day?
Now, suppose that the devs came out here and said “Players cannot access any of these without buying the expansion.” The problem is, GW2 pvp was about accessibility. Anyone can join in, customize their characters and pvp. Every gear, skill, trait was available to them. However, let assume there are no PvE content in the expansion, could it still be considered pay2win? Players with expansions have more power than players without expansions.
Every additional player that revive a down/defeated player gets their reviving heal reduced by 50% sequentially.
The first player to revive a downed player revive at 100% healing. The second player revive at 50% healing. The third player revive at 25%. The fourth player revive at 12%. The fifth at 6%.
It prioritize whoever has the highest healing power at first. Then prioritize whoever the first to heal.
Also, healing power res heal should get buffed. If a player has maxed out healing power. Their potential healing power should be increased so that it is around 187% potential res heal.
How does this effect the game?
In dungeons, as there is a Zerk meta, zerk gear becomes much more riskier without nerfing a single bit of damage. Using Zerk gear requires more skill as getting downed will impact the run much more.
Healing power becomes a helpful stat without it being a requirement. Can a dungeon run be done without healing power? Yes. Can healing power be helpful? Yes. Will it impact the meta? Probably not. I see this healing power being useful in mediocre groups that has players getting downed frequently, but useless in superior dungeon groups that never had a player go downed.
In WvW/PvP, outnumbered fights become easier because the number of players reviving each other is impacted. Skill becomes more valuable than numbers.
I like using P/P with Roll for Initiative + Withdraw. It makes me feel like a gunslinger. If P/P gets buffed, I don’t want unload to be removed.
I rather that Unload gets a damage increase and/or lower the initiative cost. Maybe increase the dodge range/initiative gain or lower the cooldown for RoI because it goes very well with P/P.
Its simple, some enemies have higher toughness + low vitality, some enemies have high vitality + low toughness.
There is no nerf to berserker. This just gives condi builds a purpose, to kill enemies quickly with high toughness + low vitality. Zerker kills enemies with high vitality + low toughness more quickly than condi builds can.
That, or we ignore fixing condi builds altogether. Because either Condi builds be useless or become the new meta. Or we can stop thinking up complex features that won’t work and go with the high toughness + low vitality, which will let zerker and condi builds stand side by side as equals.
So let’s say an expansion comes out. The version I want. 1 or 2 new races a new heavy armor class, level cap increased to 100 with new armors. New weapons. Options for more then the same 5 skills, a huge new map size of gw2 at release with a great story again.
Or…..a brand new huge map, great story, more cosmeticts.
Now option one will for the most part really upset player a quite a bit. Option two will be pretty much pointless to player b as they see no point doing it.
The only thing that will be bother me very much is an increased level cap. I think most people will be bothered by that. I do not want to see any increased level cap anywhere in the expansion.
New races, new classes, new weapons, option for more than the 5 same skills? Hell yes.
1) Summon the spirit of the recently killed.
2) Ask the spirit who killed him/her.
3) Profit.
Problemo?
Fixed that for you.
Yes Ritualist isn’t in GW2. But they will make the better detective. Nothing can beat asking the victim himself/herself directly.
I disagree.
All the killer has to do is so that he frames somebody or make it look like an accident to the victim himself. The killer can easily trick a confused victim.
I would play as my Merchant, buy potions and sell them in front of the dungeons because people needed it there. It works because the game is a grind-fest with no quests.
However, people don’t really need to buy anything since we can all self-heal. It just wouldn’t work in Guild Wars 2 since the design of it doesn’t work.
In other MMO, there are hubs where players do the quest, backtrack and then move on after hours of quests. Guild Wars 2 is mainly do the quest and move on. You barely spend more than 10 minutes in one place.
Ragnarok is different. Players spend days or weeks of grinding in the same exact spot. Which is why the Merchant class works really well. Otherwise, it’ll be an eyesore.
Eh, I think duelling is moot in GW2. not for the animosity it generates, but because ANet staff have said in the past that the game will never be balanced around 1v1’s, but rather group pvp
People don’t duel for 1v1 balance. They duel for fun.
1v1 balance is moot because no one really cares about it. Which MMO with dueling has perfect 1v1 balance?
Precursors in the gem store = Pay to win. Period. There really is no other way to look at it. Crafting a legendary is the end game, but now you put it behind a pay wall. A move like this would be a terible, terrible, terrible, most horrible and Grenth blasted idea ever.
you can duel spvp format with ppl from your own world
How pray tell me? People that own arenas for it (2000 gems a month mind you) have to operate them on trust basis. Anyone at any point can just come in and ruin the fun for you by attacking and harassing everyone. We don’t have a duel mode. We don’t have a place dedicated to it by Anet. We have to spend our own money to maybe have a place for it, if nobody harasses that is. And you can’t even report them, because once again there’s no mode. They were just doing PvP how you’re supposed to do it.
You look at the games and look for the one labeled 1v1 there a good number of ppl who leave open maps for ppl to use for 1v1s.
And griefers look for them and ruin their duels. So what?
Because it ruins the game. Seems a good enough reason.
I don’t remember Rift, SWTOR, or any dying MMO getting ruined because of dueling.
Unlike what the proponents like to cite as their main selling point, this crap wouldn’t be compartmentalized away from players that don’t want it. Even if you somehow get a switch to turn it off, you still get bullying dipkittens demanding you turn it on so they can ‘prove their superiority’.
Right now, I am sitting in Goldshire. While I do get duel request often, I declined them to see how they react. So far, not a single person has done anything.
You’ll get dailies to entice you to go try it, artificially inflating ‘player support’. You’ll get achievements to do the same, adding more PvP that the PvE-only set will ineffectually decry.
Which wouldn’t work if players truly didn’t like it. Did you go Costume Brawl recently?
No, it won’t be something you’ll get to simply ignore and keep soldiering on with what you want to do, because the very nature of dueling is to get in someone’s face. It goes against the game’s design philosophy. The game doesn’t need it. If you’re that desperate to kittensize with someone else, get yourself a private arena and take it there.
I can say that about gold. Remove gold so that beggar won’t bother me anymore.
it is rather amusing how the majority of duelling proponents are displaying the very traits unpopular with people who don´t want to see duels in game: Ridiculing and teasing players who don´t want to partake as cowards, n00bs and the like. Well played, that really helps your cause…
I see more anti-dueling people ridiculing and teasing people, that wants dueling, than people, that wants dueling themselves, ridiculing anti dueling people.
If forum behavior means anything, then dueling should be implemented.
Can you tell me which MMO you played that has these hostilities? Currently playing Free trial WoW and Rift. So far, I don’t see any of these hostile duelers.
Tell me which MMO and I’ll give it a try to see if you are right.
My experience in WoW with duelers was similar but not quite as bad as charr’s. Anytime I’d run through Goldshire on my server, I’d usually be slammed with duel requests. At least a couple of times a week, I’d have some random kitten follow me around, spamming the duel request and PMing me when I’d decline. The language was never really hostile, but it was pretty darn irritating.
Oddly enough, this only happened in Goldshire. Anytime I’d be running around the giant duel area in front of Orgrimmar, I’d be left alone. But anyway, yeah. People can be and often are annoying little terrors.
Has this experience happened recently?
Currently, I am running around in Goldshire looking to see if someone is going to duel me. So far, no luck.
It was over the past year or two. I haven’t played in a couple of months, though. Keep in mind that different servers will have different populations of people in different areas.
Now, I did encountered four duelist. They did try to send me duel invites and I declined every single one of them. One of them sent three duel invites, and I declined them all.
However, no harsh words or angry private messages from any of them.
Can you tell me which MMO you played that has these hostilities? Currently playing Free trial WoW and Rift. So far, I don’t see any of these hostile duelers.
Tell me which MMO and I’ll give it a try to see if you are right.
My experience in WoW with duelers was similar but not quite as bad as charr’s. Anytime I’d run through Goldshire on my server, I’d usually be slammed with duel requests. At least a couple of times a week, I’d have some random kitten follow me around, spamming the duel request and PMing me when I’d decline. The language was never really hostile, but it was pretty darn irritating.
Oddly enough, this only happened in Goldshire. Anytime I’d be running around the giant duel area in front of Orgrimmar, I’d be left alone. But anyway, yeah. People can be and often are annoying little terrors.
Has this experience happened recently?
Currently, I am running around in Goldshire looking to see if someone is going to duel me. So far, no luck.
My experience so far, I always seem to be the one who initiate the duels.
If you are generally the initiating side, you are unlikely to get why lot of people don’t like duels. The problem simply doesn’t exist for you, personally.
It isn’t about being afraid of losing. It’s about being humiliated by players you decline to duel.
Turn down an invite, or have it set in the options to block invites, and someone who wants to duel you will start insulting you. Calling you a coward and other names I can’t repeat here without them being kittened. Usually players like this tend to hang in groups and they all join in on the fun of embarrassing you. And when other random players pass by, the jerks get them to join in on the teasing. Then you start getting PM’s from random players making fun of you for not wanting to duel.
And if you have the courage to accept their challenge, they are usually a few levels higher then you (or whatever the max level above yours that allows them to duel you) and decked out in the best gear possible. Then you lose in a duel but that doesn’t stop their harassment, in fact they do it even more.
And then there are those who set up bots to auto-challenge anyone who gets in range for the sole purpose of annoying as many people as possible.
All this kitten has happened to me in the past in other MMOs……MMOs I no longer play because of it.
In GW1 you could send a guest invite to your guild hall and issue a private challenge to the player. I’d be open to that if we ever get guild halls with GvG. But otherwise I’m completely against open world duel requests because it will eventually create a toxic environment and Anet will end up having to do something about it like the Coiled Watch farm and others. Otherwise, any kind of PvP should be taken to PvP arenas.
Can you tell me which MMO you played that has these hostilities? Currently playing Free trial WoW and Rift. So far, I don’t see any of these hostile duelers.
Tell me which MMO and I’ll give it a try to see if you are right.
I’m glad it isn’t here, and I’d despise them for adding it. It adds nothing useful, and people can already pvp quite extensively.
Why would you despise them for adding something someone else wants. That would be like me despising them for adding a dungeon because I personally don’t like them.
Not for adding something someone else wants. I’d despise them for adding something I regard as being one of the most hostile mechanics to exist in every MMO it exists in.
If they implement dueling, I want to see a swarm of unkillable guards dogpile anyone and everyone spamming duel challenges in cities.
Otherwise, go pvp. That’s why there’s spvp ad wvw – it keeps that drek the heck out of everywhere else.
This past two months, I took a break on Guild Wars 2 to play Free trial WoW and Rift.
My experience so far, I sometime seem to be the one who initiate the duels. People seem to accept my duels, some don’t. I did not bash them for anything. We just duel and move on. People who do try to duel me, I accept. Sometimes I don’t, just to see how they react. In my surprise, they moved on. When I do win duels, they don’t shout harsh words at me. When I do lose, they don’t insult me. We simply say ‘gg’ or ‘good fight’ and then simply move on.
I don’t see any of these ‘hostilities’ anywhere in either games. Frankly, it is probably just a thing in the past.
If ANet ever implement dueling, it will be no more ‘toxic’ than beggars begging for gold in GW2.
Switch Signet of the Locust with Sig of Vampirism.
Signet of the Locust heal will send out locust with AoE that chases the targeted enemy like the troll’s bees in Silverwaste and heal the necro for every attack.
The Signet of Locust takes the Sig of vamprisim’s passive.
