Goal of Proposal
Dungeons content suffers from stacking. I am worried that raiding will simply be 20 people stacking together in a corner to dps.
Proposal Functionality
If players become stronger when together, so do mobs. Design the game around countering stacking and LoSing.
+10000 toughness when reviving + near 10 allies.
All mobs can revive each other just like mobs.
All mobs do 10,000 damage while near 10 of their allies.
Tons of AoE damage.
Stackfest should be a wipefest.
Associated Risks
Casuals won’t be able to enjoy raiding.
I think you should watch your pejoratives in this thread. You seem to have no clue what stacking is, why it’s done or how it works so the only person revealing himself to be a casual is you.
CDI Rules:
5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.
Thanks for quoting your own rules violation. You shouldn’t use terms like “casual” as a pejorative if you don’t want to be called out on it. Additionally, you shouldn’t throw a stone inside of a glass house. If you’d like more advice please PM me.
You seem to have no clue what stacking is, why it’s done or how it works so the only person
In my defense, you didn’t seem like you understood. Generally, when someone says “lolz gw2 is just stack here dps win lolz” I assume they are a simple person who is used to being carried through dungeons and don’t realize what support mechanics are happening to allow that to happen.
Your post fit that mold; yet another person who mistakenly believes that some how it is the act of stacking that makes the content easy or that stacking grants some mysterious invulnerability quality. Neither of these are the case. So either you don’t know that or you pretend not to know to further your sophistry.
Support consist mainly of Reflect, condition removal, some boons, and maybe a little healing.
Reflect and Condition removal requires to know when to use it. So it requires a little bit of knowledge. If 3 players have 10 stacks of bleed, a guardian can instantly remove it with its condi removal. If an enemy is using a a deadly projectile, the guardian would have to reflect it.
Stacking also makes reviving easy. Maybe have a shadow refuge to revive players, if it actually matters at all. This is as deep as support gets, Small bits of thinking is used.
Now, a new scenario:
What if the group cannot stack, no matter what event happens in this scenario. The ‘support’ has choices on what to do otherwise the group will wipe. The support guard has several choices but cannot do them all in time. Let say that the entire group has 10 stacks of condi and they will all die; however, one and three party members are away from each other. The guard can only save one group. The one warrior has a warbanner that can party revive everyone, however this was his third down, and another one will kill him. Maybe saving the three party member will be the safer choice.
One party member leads the boss away so that 3 party members can mass revive their fully dead party member.
The party members have to position themselves so they can run to the wall of reflect when needed.
A guard can buff up a nearby player that is going to finish off a mob, the guard goes forward to protect other player.
A ranger mass-immobilize a cluster of mobs, then ele uses meteor shower.
Much much more because movement allows flexibility.
Maybe people like stacking because it makes thinking easier, which is okay for casuals
2 – Raid difficulty:
Raid difficulty should scale for each single player in the istance, from 10 to 50 (a counter on the right side like the Color Knights in the last battle against Scarlet should be perfect).. 50 is a random number i think that Devs should take a decision about the max number of partecipant..
Second proposal for raid difficulty: let’s assume dungeons are standard difficult, raids should have 3 different difficulty: standard, hard, elite.. (for rewards, i’ll be focusing later)
Difficult factors could be:
Agony Resistance
Bosses life/dmg
Environment hostile (roots, falling stones, disappearing pads, bridges falling)
Debuff (like the achilles bane in lyssa event)
I would add Counter-stacking in the Hard and Elite versions. AI specifically to counter stacking is implemented so that Stackfest becomes a wipefest.
With it, Hard and Elite versions will actually play very differently than the standard version. Players will actually have to move. Cripple/Immobilize/Chill/CC will actually be useful. Commanders have to command groups to move effectively instead of “Stack on me!” Well, that is what the end-result should be.
Elite should then have AI that counter stacking + counter spreading out. Groups have to spread out and also stack effectively at a moment notice. Raid groups will always be in the edge of wiping.
Standard Raid should work exactly like dungeon. Easily stackable so that casuals can play with very little difficulty. Players can easily say, “Stack here” and then pull mobs in just like dungeons. They don’t need to use cripple/immobilize/chill/CC, they just need DPS.
Goal of Proposal
Dungeons content suffers from stacking. I am worried that raiding will simply be 20 people stacking together in a corner to dps.
Proposal Functionality
If players become stronger when together, so do mobs. Design the game around countering stacking and LoSing.
+10000 toughness when reviving + near 10 allies.
All mobs can revive each other just like mobs.
All mobs do 10,000 damage while near 10 of their allies.
Tons of AoE damage.
Stackfest should be a wipefest.
Associated Risks
Casuals won’t be able to enjoy raiding.
I think you should watch your pejoratives in this thread. You seem to have no clue what stacking is, why it’s done or how it works so the only person revealing himself to be a casual is you.
CDI Rules:
5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.
Thanks for quoting your own rules violation. You shouldn’t use terms like “casual” as a pejorative if you don’t want to be called out on it. Additionally, you shouldn’t throw a stone inside of a glass house. If you’d like more advice please PM me.
You seem to have no clue what stacking is, why it’s done or how it works so the only person
Goal of Proposal
Dungeons content suffers from stacking. I am worried that raiding will simply be 20 people stacking together in a corner to dps.
Proposal Functionality
If players become stronger when together, so do mobs. Design the game around countering stacking and LoSing.
+10000 toughness when reviving + near 10 allies.
All mobs can revive each other just like mobs.
All mobs do 10,000 damage while near 10 of their allies.
Tons of AoE damage.
Stackfest should be a wipefest.
Associated Risks
Casuals won’t be able to enjoy raiding.
I think you should watch your pejoratives in this thread. You seem to have no clue what stacking is, why it’s done or how it works so the only person revealing himself to be a casual is you.
CDI Rules:
5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.
Loot armor all looks the same, So I am stuck with ugly armor from level 1-79 unless I want to spend real money on transmuting my temporarily armor or use that lag-infested TP.
We just need better AI. If the mobs tried to scatter when they took X damage per second within Y proximity of each other it partially solves the problem of trash mobs turning into just a LOS and stand there situation. If the mobs attempt to stay apart you put it on the players to keep them together using more control skills, which every class has access to. The mistake would be to have the mobs use knockback skills or something similar, all that would do is create yet another reliance on stability to burst.
Better AI would definitely help, an I like this idea in particular for anti-stacking play. Some stacking is fine, but by and large it should be a tactic you put into play at key moments in an encounter, not something you stand around doing through the entire encounters duration.
The problem with most of these Better AI suggestion is that it counters spreading out. It looks good, but it all goes to waste when stacking.
What ANet need to do is specifically research into counter stacking. No one here in this thread has any solution. I don’t have a solution, but I can theorize or give ANet some leads. This is a complicated matter that needs to be researched thoroughly. If ANet does bother researching to counter-stacking all the way, the end result will be very different than what any of us had put forth.
Without anti-stacking tactics, raids are another dungeon with more players.
I actually made a post some time ago about possible improvements to mobs, I’ll quote it here, as it applies nicely to mobs in raid content.
I feel the mordrem and the karka are actually quite well designed, and provide the right amount of challenge in high level open world content. That said, what you wrote is true. Most of the mobs are bland, have bad AI and are as vicious as a bean bag. Especially in dungeons, mob AI should be more group oriented, and well, smarter – as it is, it feels as if their AI consists of the aggro formula and then just getting in range for attacks and using them on cooldown.
Some examples of what the AI could do:
After receiving a lot of damage in a short time, switch to defensive measures that vary by the mob – boons, evasive movements, blocks, what not.
When an ally of a mob is heavily damaged, the mob switches to use more control on players.
Mobs (not all, but many) get an active, telegraphed condition cleanse skill that can be interrupted, that they won’t waste on stuff like a stack of less than five bleeds or vulnerability.
If an ally of a mob is targeting a player, the player receives bonus aggro from the mob, that way the mobs are more likely to naturally focus on single targets.
Give mobs simple combos (like a skill that immobilizes, and a guardian symbol type AoE attack that’s scripted to be used on immobilized targets), both within the skill sets of single mobs, and to be used across multiple mobs in a group.
If a mob is attacking a low-toughness target and is not subject to heavy damage (that would switch it to defensive set), it switches to offensive measures, attacking aggressively with highly damaging attacks.
Mobs with ranged weapons should attempt to stay at their optimal range and not stand in melee range at a corner. If a mob finds itself too close to the target, it will attempt to make distance.
As for some other changes to mobs…
Give them less HP, and way more toughness. I know, some people like to see big numbers, but let’s put good game design before that.
Yeah, I guess that’s the biggest thing besides the combat AI.
It’s good, but counter-stacking AI needs to be in there rather than mobs picking off individual players.
Some of these looks like I want to use stack tactics instead of spreading out which makes all these well-designed AI addition a waste of time.
Goal of Proposal
Dungeons content suffers from stacking. I am worried that raiding will simply be 20 people stacking together in a corner to dps.
Proposal Functionality
If players become stronger when together, so do mobs. Design the game around countering stacking and LoSing.
+10000 toughness when reviving + near 10 allies.
All mobs can revive each other just like mobs.
All mobs do 10,000 damage while near 10 of their allies.
Tons of AoE damage.
Stackfest should be a wipefest.
Associated Risks
Casuals won’t be able to enjoy raiding.
too complicated.
you can simply give bosses a fix position or make them only move in a set area.
That is just bosses, what about mobs?
Simple – make ranged mobs attempt to stay out of melee. Give melee enemies more access to crippled. There you have it, mobs no longer stack (well, except for full melee enemy groups, that’s why you don’t use full melee enemy groups.).
It is simple to counter that, find a corner, LoS.
Range mobs come in to melee to die from corner stacking.
Bolded the key part. Make them attempt to stay out of melee, as in, give them a minimum range, and if their target is closer than that, they’ll try to get away until the target is out of their minimum range.
LoSing will group the ranged mobs together right up to the minimum range and then the players come out and destroy them. It’ll just be zerging.
I can make safe spots with LoSing. if all mobs follow that pattern, I would just hide in the corner because mobs won’t dare come close.
It doesn’t solve stacking for melee mobs. Cripple isn’t dangerous when you do not have to move. It encourages more stacking instead.
However, minimum range can be added to the list of countering stacking. Alone isn’t enough to work.
Goal of Proposal
Dungeons content suffers from stacking. I am worried that raiding will simply be 20 people stacking together in a corner to dps.
Proposal Functionality
If players become stronger when together, so do mobs. Design the game around countering stacking and LoSing.
+10000 toughness when reviving + near 10 allies.
All mobs can revive each other just like mobs.
All mobs do 10,000 damage while near 10 of their allies.
Tons of AoE damage.
Stackfest should be a wipefest.
Associated Risks
Casuals won’t be able to enjoy raiding.
too complicated.
you can simply give bosses a fix position or make them only move in a set area.
That is just bosses, what about mobs?
Bouncing projectiles that do more damage with each bounce. NPC condition which deals damage to nearby allies whenever you do something (kinda like an AOE confuse or GW1’s Spiteful Spirit) that Nova thing that the Volcanic fractal boss does, environmental effects that keep the party moving like the Aetherblade fractal boss, all can work to promote keeping the group apart without having to resort to the mobs becoming unkillable one-shoters just because they group together, which is a kinda terrible idea in a game with no real means to control aggro (and therefore, how mobs group up).
That can also be added to the list of countering stacking instead. It is dull to have all mobs in every raid dungeons to using bouncing projectiles. Variety is key to keep it fun.
Goal of Proposal
Dungeons content suffers from stacking. I am worried that raiding will simply be 20 people stacking together in a corner to dps.
Proposal Functionality
If players become stronger when together, so do mobs. Design the game around countering stacking and LoSing.
+10000 toughness when reviving + near 10 allies.
All mobs can revive each other just like mobs.
All mobs do 10,000 damage while near 10 of their allies.
Tons of AoE damage.
Stackfest should be a wipefest.
Associated Risks
Casuals won’t be able to enjoy raiding.
too complicated.
you can simply give bosses a fix position or make them only move in a set area.
That is just bosses, what about mobs?
Simple – make ranged mobs attempt to stay out of melee. Give melee enemies more access to crippled. There you have it, mobs no longer stack (well, except for full melee enemy groups, that’s why you don’t use full melee enemy groups.).
It is simple to counter that, find a corner, LoS.
Range mobs come in to melee to die from corner stacking.
Goal of Proposal
Arah Storymode is very underwhelming.
Proposal Functionality
When the players shoot down Zhaitan aka finish the dungeon, you get to unlock a raid that lets you go on a raid mission to kill Zhaitan. It will be a ground mission. Design it however you want. I am not happy with the conclusion.
Associated Risks
No idea.
Please try to be as concise as feasible with your proposal.
It’s an achievment. You should suffer for trying to do it.
You have OCD you don’t have to do achievments.
Well, you are a scrub. Just go PvP and get the rewards man, dude, daddi-o, 1v1 me.
Well your lazy, pathetic, weak, milquetoast suggestion will just let everyone get exotics quickly.
Well I don’t care. I did PvP before wardrobe, and thus I have most things unlocked, I’m done with 5 dungoen collections already. So “hah!” in your face!
Me: After 2 and a half years in game, there is nothing else left to do.
Then that is why we shouldn’t buff rewards. So you can actually have something to do.
Me: Yes, I could do that. But: 1. There is only 1 dungeon track available at any given time (for what reason?). 2. Doing a full track is ~50 matches (so I’m probably better off just doing the dungeon). 3. Probably a good precentage of PvE players will never set foot in PvP.
Then they don’t have to get dungeon weapons/armor. Its optional.
Me: Yes. And does it matter? I mean it costs like what, 10 g for a full exo gear? You can farm that under 2 hours anyway.
Then pay 10g for the full exo gear and don’t get the dungeon armor. Simple as that.
Me: No you shouldn’t. There is a difference between reasonable, and just plain boring, frustrating. After your 40th run on the same path you just want to quit the game alltogether.
There are alternatives, such as PvP. There is no reason you have to grind Dungeons as hard as I did. There is no subscription fee, not getting the achievement will not kill you.
Me: Good for you. Now think of the people that weren’t so lucky. Now think of new players.
Grinding my dungeon gear isn’t lucky, there is no RNG involved. It was pure effort and grind. New players should put the effort and grind if they want the achievements that I had.
Are there other small tweaks like this (aside from removal of solo queue) that you feel would make the map a better experience for players – changes that wouldn’t drastically change the gameplay dynamic and aesthetic of the map?
it is the “gameplay dynamic” that everyone hates…
why suggestions aside from removing it? we all want it removed.
i will never play this map and as such i don’t play soloQ because of it.
it even bugs me that it pops up in hotjoin and i have to switch servers.
i know thousands of other player will simply AFK this map in soloQ,
remove it already,
read through the 1500 posts you’ve binned in this thread. we all hate it.
(1) remove the ability to pick which team you are on when you join the game, and
(2) remove spectate mode
These features are in the game so that you can watch games and play on the same team as your friend. So, perhaps it’s ok to let players choose thir team before the game starts, but not after. also perhaps.
(3) don’t let a player join the game unless somebody joins on the other team.
The replies to this thread (and there are many like it) will say that hot join is casual, for learning, but there is nothing to learn from playing in mismatches where you can’t lose.
In fact, mismatched hotjoin promotes bad habits.
In hotjoin rushing far or Svanir are good ideas because a momentary points advantage at the start will create a numbers advantage for your team that could last the rest of the game. In solo Q, rushing far or Svanir will get your outnumbered teammates wiped.
1. I would like to play with my friends. So no, I am against this.
2. No. I like watching people play sometimes. Maybe I am tired of playing pvp all the time. I can just watch people fight each other while I eat my pizza and then go back in when I finish eating my pizza instantly. So no, I’m against this.
3. I would like to join the game instantly instead of waiting to play. If I leave the match, it will cause a 4v3. What would be the solution?
If Remove one player so it becomes 3v3, I can easily exploit that until I get into the winning team.
Nothing, let it be a 4v3, nothing is solved. Let the winning team steamroll the losing team.
Here is a better solution:
Lower the score from 500 down to 200. It becomes a faster game and auto-balance won’t be able to let a player get a quick win.
Normalize rewards. Combine with above, they realize how unfun it is to auto-balance and it is better to just play the game.
Maybe you never had it spelled out for you, Anet….. but Autobalance and Teamswap need to be removed from hotjoin sPvP
Here is why…..
Say you are in a match where the score is:
Red
45
Blue
380
The score is so one-sided because red team has 4 players and the blue team has 5.
One of the players on the red team pushes the B button…. and goes into spectator mode… creating a shortage of two players for the red team
……forcing a player to be Autobalanced to red from the blue team.
As soon as the autobalance occurs…. the teams will then be even, and the player who is spectating can now join the winning team instead of being on the losing team.
Even if he gets returned to the losing team due to a future autobalance, he will still receive credit for winning.
Please remove this from Hotjoin spvp….. people are abusing is so much, it is absurd.
Burr what you are missing the point is that turning Bull’s Rush into a teleport will make it overpowered as hell.
If you want to get an idea, think of it like a thief with sleight of hand. Sleight of hand is a very powerful trait. However, this time Sleight of hand doesn’t daze anymore, it gives a 2 second knockdown and then the thief can heartseeker spam the enemy down very easily.
Warrior with the changed Bull’s rush will be like that. Except, There is no grandmaster trait required. Only a single utility skill.
Bull’s Rush is okay without a teleport because there is a cast time and that enemies can dodge it. It is much better if ANet fixes the bug than use your suggestion.
Mesmer has enough methods of destroying boons and more than enough methods of applying conditions. Although kind of unique, I say nay.
Are we playing the same game? Our options of boon removal are:
Sword auto chain, requires 3 hits for 1 boon.
Mind Stab, small aoe ground target, roots player during cast.
Arcane Thievery, dodgeable, blockable, blindable (yes, you can BLIND and AEGIS a skill that swaps boons and conditions), easily fails due to lack of LoS when LoS is clearly maintained.
Null Field, 5 pulses, 1 boon per pulse, average aoe size, can be walked out of, 15% uptime
Phantasmal Disenchanter, dodgeable, aegis-able, blind-able, spawns close to target making it easy to destroy, does bounce so it’s nice, relatively low cooldown, takes up a utility slot
Shattered Concentration, dodgeable, aegis-able, blind-able, kite-able.
And no, you’re not going to have more than 2 of these options in a game (3 if you’re running a shatter build without greatsword) with one being a utility and the other being the weapon or trait.
How Ironic. That is a lot of Boon removal you are listing there.
Warriors, Rangers, Elementalist don’t have boon removal in skills or traits.
Guardians don’t have skills that removes boons. Only 1 unreliable trait.
Engineer has only 1 boon removal skill or up to 3 if engineers want to play a terrible build.
Only Necromancers can rival Mesmers through boon removal. That is if Necromancer has a auto-attack that removes boon.
The problem is that there aren’t really any gold sinks in PvP and as such they can’t really add large amount of gold for rewards, since that would basically kill the economy.
Yes there is.
Skins. Not every skin can be rewarded in PvP, so they have to be bought.
6 charges are guaranteed because of the cities.
Then you have potentially 23 more just from mapping all the zones since you likely have a 95-99% of getting a charge instead of a BLK.
This is per character.
That is not counting doing PvP reward tracks.
4 charges are guaranteed.
I don’t believe that Black Citadel and Lion arch is a “free” transmutation stone.
I can understand the distaste over it because this is not designed for power levelers. However, if it was played like how they game intended it to be, it be fun.
Not on your 3rd+ character. It’s nothing but an annoyance at that point, compared to the previous system where everything was handed to you from the getgo, and they just threw you out in the world and said “do whatever you want”.
If you don’t want to find all those traits, you can always buy them from profession trainers.
I can understand the distaste over it because this is not designed for power levelers. However, if it was played like how they game intended it to be, it be fun.
But, it needs improvements. Such as, notifications.
What is shown here, is the level ranges of each trait unlockittenpt looking through wiki to find where each traits are. However, with any kind of notification saying: “A new trait quest is unlocked!” Then the telescope next to the locked trait will appear and the player can do that quest.
Remove the war score value on towers and distribute it amongst the camp war score. If possible add more camps or other open ended objectives. Maybe give a war score value to sentries. Just anything to give value to objectives that doesn’t have a wall protecting it.
This way, less PvD. Towers will still be valuable because they provide a safe haven for roamers, they can be powerful foward base to attack keeps or stonemist. Zergs can still take over towers for rewards.
Pros:
Small roaming groups will be very valuable. Zergs will not be as valuable. Several small roaming groups can achieve a lot more than one big zerg now.
At night when mostly everyone is asleep, they can pull their weight a lot more. The nightcappers don’t need to bash doors, they just need to take over camps.
More open battles, less PvDoor.
cons:
Can’t figure out the cons, someone else can list them for me.
Because then you’ll have to contact support to get it reset, which costs them money to assist you.
TLDR; Learn to protect your own property. Anet can only do so much.
I have to contact support to get “What” reset?
I can see ANet providing a simple useful feature that is two separate password for in game and forums possible. It doesn’t sound like it needs 5 years, several grants, and a research team.
Because if someone hacks your forum account, you have to prove you are the owner to get it back. Anet just won’t hand it over to anyone if you want it reset. And for them to put in the effort to change it would also cost money. Bottom line, It will all cost them money when it’s really on you to keep YOUR password safe. Don’t use public computers to log into the forums to post. Don’t use public wifi to use the the forums. Keep your personal information safe.
In that case, I will just have to give my serial code, my last four credit card digit number, my character’s name, and other information that ANet ask. A few hours later, Bam, forum account back.
Now, if my game account gets hacked because I logged in. Same process. Same ‘money’ lost. If I want all my items back, ANet will have to lose more time and money to thoroughly investigate if I was hacked. I think it is cheaper to lose only a forum account.
The point is, it costs money. Period. Protect your own account. They gave you the tools. Use them, or don’t log on shaddy internet locations. End of story. In the end, YOU need to protect your account. PERIOD. Anet can only do so much.
You don’t understand what you are saying.
According to that logic, ANet should fire all their customer support because it cost money. If YOU, Ellieanna, get hacked, lost all your items, your gold, your characters and somehow, you could not figure out how you got hacked. It is YOUR fault. Customer support cost money. ANet will say to you, “Tough luck Ellieanna.”
Now, ANet can do so much. I know they can create another passwords for forums. It doesn’t seem a difficult task. I know they can handle password issues for forums as I personally experienced their customer service. I know it is very easy and how fast it takes for them to reset my password, and I can safely assume that it wouldn’t take as long to reset a forum password. I know it takes them a long time to thoroughly investigate a hacked account that wants to re-roll.
My rebuttal is: The money they spent is worth it. PERIOD
Because then you’ll have to contact support to get it reset, which costs them money to assist you.
TLDR; Learn to protect your own property. Anet can only do so much.
I have to contact support to get “What” reset?
I can see ANet providing a simple useful feature that is two separate password for in game and forums possible. It doesn’t sound like it needs 5 years, several grants, and a research team.
Because if someone hacks your forum account, you have to prove you are the owner to get it back. Anet just won’t hand it over to anyone if you want it reset. And for them to put in the effort to change it would also cost money. Bottom line, It will all cost them money when it’s really on you to keep YOUR password safe. Don’t use public computers to log into the forums to post. Don’t use public wifi to use the the forums. Keep your personal information safe.
In that case, I will just have to give my serial code, my last four credit card digit number, my character’s name, and other information that ANet ask. A few hours later, Bam, forum account back.
Now, if my game account gets hacked because I logged in. Same process. Same ‘money’ lost. If I want all my items back, ANet will have to lose more time and money to thoroughly investigate if I was hacked. I think it is cheaper to lose only a forum account.
This could be solved more easily if characters under level 80 get free/karma/gold transmutation. A custom outfit sounds like it would be impossible to do.
Because then you’ll have to contact support to get it reset, which costs them money to assist you.
TLDR; Learn to protect your own property. Anet can only do so much.
I have to contact support to get “What” reset?
I can see ANet providing a simple useful feature that is two separate password for in game and forums possible. It doesn’t sound like it needs 5 years, several grants, and a research team.
